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Infocom's Dave Lebling Interviewed

flip-flop writes: "The Adventure Collective has an interview with Dave Lebling, of olde Infocom fame. The quite lengthy Q&A covers topics such as the early days of Infocom, what Dave is doing these days, and even the origin of the name "Zork." A must-read for anyone old enough to remember those legendary text adventures ... *sigh* Those were the days: 'Get up. Turn on light ...'"

72 of 152 comments (clear)

  1. Yellow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4

    There is a bulldozer outside.

  2. Re:aaaahhhh zork... by jandrese · · Score: 5

    I tend to think of Diablo as a roguelike you can actually win.

    Is it just me or do all of the text based roguelike authors seem to have some dread fear that someone somewhere might win the game?

    I especially remember rogue (I still play it once in a while) where it seems like anytime your character starts doing good (you find the two handed sword, a ring of rust resistance (or whatever it's called), and some nice armor the RNG will decide to do you in and stop putting food on the levels, leaving your adventurer to eventually starve to death or faint while fighting a dragon.

    Down that path lies madness. On the other hand, the road to hell is paved with melting snowballs.

    --

    I read the internet for the articles.
  3. Hitchhiker's Guide by robin · · Score: 3

    The Z-code file for the Hitchhiker's Guide is available off Douglas Adams' web site. Download this, and buy the Activision reissue of "Classic text adventure masterpieces" and you'll have pretty much everything Infocom ever did. If you have a Pilot, put a copy of Frotz on it and you can play on the move. Some of the games have mildly annoying copy protection which means you have to look something up in the PDF manual, but by and large it's fantastic. I paid about £25 or so I think -- unfortunately I can't remember the URL, but I do remember the page was a sort of pepperminty green. Oh, and check out if-archive.
    --

    --
    W.A.S.T.E.
  4. Asylum!!! by jonabbey · · Score: 2

    Asylum wasn't Infocom, it was published by Med Systems, and it was the most amazing thing ever published on the TRS-80. The company later did a IBM PC port that I actually saw once, but it seems to have dropped off of the face of the net.

    Asylum had a parser every bit as good as Infocom's, but they added a terrific 3d graphics display on the TRS-80's 128x48 pixel display. Asylum was immersive in a way that very few other games I have ever seen were, and in only 16k. Really one of the best adventure games ever published.

    And it was HARD.

    Med Systems also published an excellent adventure game called Lucifer's Realm, in which you had to go to hell and convince the devil to let you go to heaven.

    All of these games were in many ways more exciting than the Infocom ones, because they melded graphics and a first-rate adventure parser that really took advantage of the *cough* awesome power of the TRS-80.


    - jon
  5. Re:Any NEW converts out there? by Glytch · · Score: 2

    On the other hand, a 133t-speak text adventure game might be funny.

    >j00 533 4 d00r
    0p3/\/ d00r.

    >th3 d00r 15 10x0r3d.
    Un10j00 n33d 4 k3y.

  6. Wonder what he thinks about Neverwinter Nights? by wynlyndd · · Score: 2

    I know I am waiting for this game.

    --
    "Dogs and cats, living together...it's mass hysteria!"
  7. Re:Audio Zork by acroyear · · Score: 2

    I tried playing via voice some infocom games (specifically, Enchanter) using WinFrotz and Dragon NaturallySpeaking.

    Would have been fine, except Enchanter ONLY took "NE" and "northeast" to mean Go NorthEast (and same for NWSESW) and I couldn't get Dragon NS to think of NorthEast as one word...it kept separating them. And "Spell 'N','E'" didn't seem too much more successful either. I finally gave up on it.
    --
    You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)

    --
    "But remember, most lynch mobs aren't this nice." (H.Simpson)
    -- Joe
  8. Re: I remember! by fireproof · · Score: 2

    Not quite -- you won't be able to take the pill until you're wearing the gown:

    You wake up. The room is spinning very gently round your head. Or at least it would be if you could see it which you can't.

    It is pitch black.

    >get up
    Very difficult, but you manage it. The room is still spinning. It dips and sways a little.

    >turn on light
    Good start to the day. Pity it's going to be the worst one of your life. The light is now on.

    Bedroom
    The bedroom is a mess.
    It is a small bedroom with a faded carpet and old wallpaper. There is a washbasin, a chair with a tatty dressing gown slung over it, and a window with the curtains drawn. Near the exit leading south is a phone.
    There is a flathead screwdriver here.
    There is a toothbrush here.

    >get robe
    Luckily, this is large enough for you to get hold of. You notice something in the pocket.

    >open pocket
    It's hard to open or close the pocket unless you're wearing the gown.

    >wear gown
    You are now wearing your gown.

    >look in pocket
    Opening your gown reveals a thing your aunt gave you which you don't know what it is, a buffered analgesic, and pocket fluff.

    >take pill
    You swallow the tablet. After a few seconds the room begins to calm down and behave in an orderly manner. Your terrible headache goes.

    --

    /* "A fool does not delight in understanding, but only in revealing his own mind." */

  9. Re: Damn it... by fireproof · · Score: 2

    No need for that . . . just search online for Z-code interpreters and then try to find the Z-file for the game. I found it last week, and played it through again, just for the heck of it. On the other hand, it would be fun to hook up the 800XL again. I had an 800, then an 800XL, and i first experienced HHGTG on that machine. I might have to hook mine up and play some of the old classics again . . .

    --

    /* "A fool does not delight in understanding, but only in revealing his own mind." */

  10. Re:Any NEW converts out there? by Chris+Pimlott · · Score: 2

    Now if only we could get a rewrite of Zork 1 in which you could kill the thief.

    You can kill the thief. He's just really tough.

  11. Audio Zork by Chris+Pimlott · · Score: 5

    I had an idea a while ago regarding the old Infocom games.

    What if you got a good narrator to record all the text from a game, and hooked up a speech-to-text engine for input. Then you could put it on a laptop, sit back in your favorite chair, put on some headphones, close your eyes and just imagine... completely and totally immersed in the story in your mind.

    It wouldn't be too hard to do; the main impediment would be to get some decent voice talent to do the recordings. Otherwise, it should be doable entire with existing open source code.

    (okay, there is one other problem - copyright. but maybe if this was done in an open source freely available way, they wouldn't mind...)

    1. Re:Audio Zork by Speare · · Score: 4

      What if you got a good narrator to record all the text from a game, and hooked up a speech-to-text engine for input. Then you could put it on a laptop, sit back in your favorite chair, put on some headphones, close your eyes and just imagine...

      This is just the sort of thing that we need to install in cars to keep the driver awake!

      > drive south
      You are feeling drowsy. You are likely to crash into a grue.

      --
      [ .sig file not found ]
    2. Re:Audio Zork by 503 · · Score: 2

      I read an interview with Douglas Adams, shortly before the release of Starship Titanic, where he proposed a game like that. It would have absolutely no graphics and all output would be done with 3d audio. Input would have been handled by microphone.

      It would have been a neat experiment in usability and accessibility but I don't think it ever got out of the proposal stage - especially after the delay and subsequent commercial flop of Starship Titanic.

  12. interview with steve meretzky there as well... by option8 · · Score: 4
    there's another interview, this time with Steve Meretzky, on the same site:

    http://www.adventurecollective.com/articles/interv iew-stevemeretzky.htm

    from the interview:

    The revolution and evolution of the adventure genre owe much to Steve Meretzky. Fans of interactive fiction will recognize Meretzky as one of the Infocom Implementors. He is the father of such classics as Planetfall (1983), Sorcerer (1984), The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (with Douglas Adams, 1985), A Mind Forever Voyaging (1985), Leather Goddesses of Phobos (1986), Stationfall (1987), Zork Zero (1988), Spellcasting 101: Sorcerers Get all the Girls (1990), Spellcasting 201: The Sorcerer's Appliance (1991), Leather Goddesses of Phobos II (1991), and Spellcasting 301: Spring Break (1992). His last adventure game is The Space Bar in 1997.
  13. Re:It makes one misty eyed. by sharkey · · Score: 2

    You are wearing pants.
    >Open pants
    Pants are open.
    >Get hot grits
    You already have hot grits.
    >pour hot grits in pants
    Natalie Portman is petrified of hot grits in your pants.
    ...
    A CmdrTaco appears.
    >Hello.
    The CmdrTaco screams: Yuo troll! No hto girts or Natalie Protman err allowed at my diskusion bord! Your are to reed my PERL cod 5 tims befroe you're can go ot slep!
    >Back!
    Contacting images2.slashdot.org.........
    Server is not responding.
    >Please God no!
    You have been Taco-spaghettified to death.

    --

    --

    --
    "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
  14. Old Commie? by Pope · · Score: 2
    You had the Gorbachev 64? :)

    FWIW, I had a Vic 20 to play the Scott Adams adventure games, then a PCjr where I finally got into Infocoms

    Hell, I went out and bought Trinity and Buerocracy back in 1989 for my first year of University (still using the 5 year old PCjr at that point), and I STILL haven't solved them! I swear, a year of post-modernist critique damaged my faculties beyond repair. :)

    --
    It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
  15. Plot vs Graphics by chill · · Score: 3

    Back in the day when a decent story actually mattered. Now, you don't need an imagination -- that NVidia GForce and Soundblaster provide one for you.

    Of course, you didn't have to pay artists and musicians, either.

    Yes, some of today's games have good stories, but too many rely on whiz-bang graphics and sound and skimp on actual playability.
    --
    Charles E. Hill

    --
    Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    1. Re:Plot vs Graphics by klund · · Score: 2
      When computers were more expensive, only the more well-off (and usually more educated) could afford them, which is why adventures, especially the cerebral Infocom kind, were more popular

      No. I disagree. Most of the rich people that I know are dumb as rocks, so I discount the connection between cerebral and affluent. I think that Al Lowe (creator of Leisure Suit Larry games) said it best:

      You know, there's another thing about games of the 80s... I think adventure games were the right kind of game for the kind of person who was playing, particularly the PC people. I really believe that if you could run DOS and figure out all the stupid, crazy stuff like extended memory and how to put drivers in high memory and memory management that you had to do if you were going to be successful with a PC back in the 80s, then you just had to be a puzzle solver.

      And remember command lines, where you type in commands? Adventure games really played right into the strong suit of those engineer types who were
      good at that. I remember vividly back in the late 80s, Ken [Williams] and I had a conversation; "Won't it be great when everybody has a computer and can play our games?" We figured that when computers were in 50% of homes, that was probably as far as it was gonna go. The other half probably didn't need one or care. Although now it looks like we were underestimating. But what we didn't take into consideration was that when 50% of people have computers, they're gonna want to watch FOX! They're not gonna be interested in PBS and thinking games, you know?


      This quote was taken from his interview at at Applelinks
      http://games.applelinks.com/moofie2001/al3.shtml. It's another good read with a giant from the golden age of adventure games.
      --
      --
      My word processor was written by Stanford Professor Donald Knuth. Who wrote yours?
    2. Re:Plot vs Graphics by flip-flop · · Score: 5

      I agree with you, chill - although it's not all that bad, is it? Companies like Looking Glass have been holding aloft the standard of strong, immersive stories. Hang on, they just went broke didn't they...
      OK, maybe it is that bad then.

      Any of you remember what Roberta Williams once said, how in the olden days, when computers were more expensive, only the more well-off (and usually more educated) could afford them, which is why adventures, especially the cerebral Infocom kind, were more popular? Nowadays when just about everyone can buy a cheapo PC or worse still, a console ;) we have more "mass-market" games.
      I don't know if I fully agree with that, but it's certainly an interesting conjecture.

    3. Re:Plot vs Graphics by Chundra · · Score: 3
      I particularly like the story on unreal tournament. It adds so much more to the game, and actually enhances the playability.

      Look at those gibs fly!

    4. Re:Plot vs Graphics by JWhitlock · · Score: 2
      Any of you remember what Roberta Williams once said, how in the olden days, when computers were more expensive, only the more well-off (and usually more educated) could afford them, which is why adventures, especially the cerebral Infocom kind, were more popular? Nowadays when just about everyone can buy a cheapo PC or worse still, a console ;) we have more "mass-market" games.

      Roberta Williams of Sierra Online, right? The company that had it's first big hit with SoftPorn, and brought us seven or so episodes of Leisure Suit Larry? Yeah, catering to the smarter computer user...

      The bottom line is text-based adventures came first because the graphics were limited. The thing that sets one text-based game over another is how clever it is, how challenging it is. Half-Life, the Infocom game, would have been interesting as well, but nothing like Half-Life, the Valve game.

      BTW, Looking Glass may be dead, but it seems Deus Ex II and Thief III are being made, by the same people but in a different company (Ion Storm). Plus, Half-Life (my favorite example) taught that a little story-telling in your 1st person shooter goes a long way - I think we'll see a minority of action games with plots and thought required, and that these will win the end-of-the-year awards. Yes, a minority, but two or three a year is enough for me (and all the time and money I can afford).

    5. Re:Plot vs Graphics by JWhitlock · · Score: 2
      Yup, the very same Roberta Williams. A little known fact: she is actually one of the women in the hot tub on the front cover of Softporn Adventure... wish I had a link to the picture now. I think I have it somewhere on my drive...

      There's a .jpeg of the box cover for Softporn at this website.

      Al Lowe confirms that Roberta Williams is one of the women in the hot tub, in Chapter 2 of the The Official Book of Leisure Suit Larry.

  16. What does a plot have to do with playability? by ebbv · · Score: 3


    Tetris has no plot.

    DooM/Quake et al never needed one, it was good that Epic realized this with Unreal Tournament.

    you can't unilaterally say games suck because they don't have plots. if a game depends on its plot for part of its interest and enjoyment, and the plot is weak then yes, that is a fault.

    but if it's merely extraneous,.. then that's like complaining that zork never had fancy graphics.
    ...dave

    --

    Think different? I'd be happy if most people would just think...
  17. Play! by Stavr0 · · Score: 5

    At the risk of being redundant, here's where to play online INFOCOM games...
    http://infocom.elsewhere.org/ Telnet mode
    http://www.saturn.powerup.com.au/ddesoto/infocom.h tm Java
    ---

    1. Re:Play! by tb3 · · Score: 2
      And Hitchhiker's is also hanging off the Douglas Adams web site here.

      These old Infocom games may be the best reply to all the whiners asking "What good are Java Applets, anyway?"

      --

      www.lucernesys.comHorizon: Calendar-based personal finance

  18. You know you spent too much time playing HHGTTG by Flounder · · Score: 3
    when you can remember how to get the Babel Fish, step by step. And it's been almost 10 years since I played it.

    Between HHGTTG, Planetfall, Zork I and II, Leather Goddesses of Phobos and Deadline, I lost many hours of my childhood. And I'll never regret it as long as I live.

    Now, if only I can find that Infocom Masterpieces CD for less than the $80.00 it goes for on eBay.

    --

    No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. - Cmdr. Susan Ivanova

    1. Re:You know you spent too much time playing HHGTTG by ozbird · · Score: 2

      Now, if only I can find that Infocom Masterpieces CD for less than the $80.00 it goes for on eBay.

      I picked up a copy in Nov. 98 from www.cdromsonline.com, but it looks like they've been eaten by a grue.

      You're best bet may be to check the abandonware sites; HHGTTG wasn't included in the Masterpieces CD (odd), so abandonware may be the only way to get it.

    2. Re:You know you spent too much time playing HHGTTG by i0lanthe · · Score: 2
      Now, if only I can find that Infocom Masterpieces CD for less than the $80.00 it goes for on eBay.

      Agreed, I have a floppy collection but would much rather have CD. Hmm.. if enough of us asked nicely, would They "reprint" it?

      (And I still have fond thoughts of HHGTTG every time I pull a wad of fluff out of my pockets...)

      --
      "The Crystal Wind is the Storm, and the Storm is Data, and the Data is Life"
  19. ASCII is all we ever needed by Monthenor · · Score: 2

    I remember a text adventure that was on my eighth grade's computer. Dunno if it even had a title, but you were on a jungle island and needed to recover about ten treasures and light a signal fire to leave the island. All I remember now is that here was a jaguar that could only be killed with a spear (axes don't count as weapons, I guess) and a parrot that gave a button-pushing puzzle clue. The best part was that after I had everything figured out, I'd race myself to see how fast I could do it :) I think I finally got the entire thing down to eight minutes...I didn't even look at the monitor to see where I was or what had happened, I just opened my blazing fury of hunt-and-peck on the keyboard and prayed for no typos. Has anyone out there memorized Zork end-to-end?
    ------------------------

    --
    Co-founder of GerbilMechs
  20. Everquest?? by throx · · Score: 2

    Everquest, which I am completely addicted to

    I guess that's where all his coding time has gone then. This game is one of the biggest time wasters around, but for some reason it's a lot of fun.

    --

    Fear: When you see B8 00 4C CD 21 and know what it means

  21. You are in a maze of twisty passages all alike by wiredog · · Score: 2
    'Go Forward'

    You are in a twisty maze of little passages, all alike...

    1. Re:You are in a maze of twisty passages all alike by connorbd · · Score: 2

      The maze of twisty little passages, all alike, is at

      http://bang.dhs.org/if/

      This is the easiest way to get around the Interactive Fiction FTP archive.

      And if you want to write your own, use Inform or TADS... though Inform is the package that they used for Zork: The Undiscovered Underground (the last Infocom game, part of Zork: Grand Inquisitor, I believe). Inform actually compiles to Z-machine code.

      /Brian

  22. Re:aaaahhhh zork... by Bilestoad · · Score: 2

    Nethack is winnable - it's not even that hard. I see it as an exercise in self-control. You have to concentrate on every single move or you will do something stupid, and not all the +3 blessed gray dragon scale mails in Yendor will save you. You could just think of it as good training for life in general. Never stop thinking, because the moment you start hitting keys before you know what they're going to do things go downhill.

  23. Re:Infocom- proof that programmers can be artists. by smirkleton · · Score: 2

    1) I'm not a programmer, I'm a Mac user. So admonitions to 'get over myself' are wasted, since I'm not one of you. I'm making an observation about the Infocom team, about which I'll elaborate.

    2) I was referring to the creators of Infocom games, who were both programmers in the grandest sense as well as artists of serious calibre. "Interactive" fiction is made up of TWO pieces, the "interactive" part (programming) and fiction (an artform).

    If you don't think that Infocom games merit consideration as art, then you're an absolute idiot and I'd be surprised if you could program your own VCR.

  24. Infocom- proof that programmers can be artists.. by smirkleton · · Score: 5

    First I disagree with an earlier comment.

    Today's 'graphical extensions' of Zork might be a game like "Myst", or some of the other visual adventure games with puzzles-to-solve in the process. There are some parallels even in games like "Resident Evil" and other largely linear, puzzle-based games.

    But in honesty, the beauty and genius of Infocom's games won't be replicated in a graphical gaming environment. As soon as the computer screen was doing the rendering that previously was up to the NVidia card in your head, your head didn't have to trouble itself.

    Infocom games demanded that players use both their imaginations (to visualize the written word) and their problem-solving skills (to solve the myriad of problems encountered in the course of gaming).

    I think that, while enormous imagination goes into *creating* today's best games, I think most require a lot less imagination on the part of the player. Games are becoming more cinematic. This isn't an entirely bad thing, but it is sad that the current generation of gamers are going to miss out on the truly rewarding experience of text-based adventure gaming.

    And I still remember which so vivid clarity the profound emotion that Infocom games were able to cultivate during gameplay... I remember my abject terror when being captured by Krill's minions in "Enchanter" - madly scrambling to find a way out of the cell, only to be sacrificed on the altar by Krill himself, a glowing blade plunged into my heart. - I remember how hard I laughed when Floyd, the genius robot with the maturity of a 6-year old from "Planetfall" first starting took out a crayon and wrote his name on the elevator wall, and how I wept (WEPT you heartless cynical punkasses, copious tears!) when he sacrificed his life to help me solve the game.

    Text-based systems required more of the participants, but gave back so much more to those who invested the time...Which reminds me...

    When is Slashdot going to get-with-the-times, dump all this text-based news commentary crap, and GIVE US NEWS WE CAN JUST SIT BACK AND WATCH!

  25. Re:Unfortunately... by Speare · · Score: 2

    The whole point of the Infocom parser was that it WASN'T limited to stupid two word combinations.

    > get all of the goo and the candle. blow out the candle then attack the interviewer
    Red goo: taken.
    Blue goo: taken.
    Silvery mystery goo: taken.
    Brown goo: you cannot carry any more.
    Candle: you cannot carry any more.
    You blow out the candle, leaving everyone in a pitch blackness. The stench of a grue becomes apparent.
    You can't see the interviewer. You have been attacked by a grue.

    --
    [ .sig file not found ]
  26. Unfortunately... by artemis67 · · Score: 5
    The interviewer could only speak to Dave in two word phrases, a verb and a noun.

    Interviewer: ask question
    Dave: I don't understand what you are trying to say. Perhaps if you rephrase your statement?
    Interviewer: talk Dave
    Dave: You can't do that here!
    Interviewer: query Dave
    Dave: I don't understand the command "query".
    Interviewer:bah!
    Dave: I don't understand the command "bah".
    Interviewer: kill Dave
    Dave: A strong wind has blown out Interviewer's candle. Interviewer has been attacked by a grue for 106 points Interviewer has died!

  27. It's amazing... by SIGFPE · · Score: 2

    ...I have all of the Infocom adventure games on a device the size of a stamp - an SD card for my Palm.
    --

    --
    -- SIGFPE
  28. Re:aaaahhhh zork... by Ravagin · · Score: 2

    Though I have nothing against it as a game, and indeed admire it, I find myself occasionally referring to Diablo as "rogue/nethack for people with short attention spans."

    Yeah, I play NetHack in text mode.

    -j
    --

    Karma: T-rexcellent.

  29. Re:aaaahhhh zork... by Ravagin · · Score: 2

    You have a point. Solutions: either get real patient, and as another poster pointed out, think out every move, or start doing the savefile copying thing. (I went through a savefile copy phase, and accumulated 20megs of archived savegames, before it turned sour. I don't know why, but it just felt weird. I was cheating, after all.)

    I do the patience thing these days. I don't do much 'puter gaming at all, so my nethack sessions are far between but intense. I die a lot. But I manage to learn a lot, too.

    The game, as a whole, works for some people. For others, it doesn't. *shrug*

    -j
    --

    Karma: T-rexcellent.

  30. The new meaning of Adventure by Aquitaine · · Score: 3

    I particularly enjoyed Dave's comments on the commercial viability of the adventure genre. As an interactive fiction designer of the MUSH/MOO flavor, my own experience tends to support everything Dave said about the gaming market today.

    I think a good deal of the 'problem' (if it is actually a problem) is that the audience is different. Back when the original Zorks came out -- I learned to read off of Zork I -- they were novelties. There was nothing like them. I suspect (but have no actual data) that people of all ages bought them, because home computers were new enough so that there was no generation gap yet. They really were immersive. It was and still is the best example of an on-line book where you influence the ending (remember when on-line meant 'on your computer,' in the early 80s?)

    I've done a lot of work in the MUSH world with RPG systems and entirely free-form roleplaying. A quick jaunt around MUSH/MOO/MUD sites will tell you which games are popular, though. My impression is that MUDs with nothing but hack'n'slash have completely caved to things like Everquest, but MUDs were outside my expertise. The actual 'roleplaying' games, where there are no levels, no fighting, only storytelling, are numerous, but most of them are not successful. Their audience tends to be in the 14-20 age range, which makes these 'adventure' games an excellent tool for kids to learn how to write, but rarely can you find really good storytelling. The 'popular' games are based on franchises like Star Trek, Star Wars, or Anne McCaffrey's novels, and except in the case of the latter, typically have shiny buttons and 'game-like' systems that more resemble computer games than storytelling forums. These games try to be all things to all people, and inevitable fail, because a text environment simply cannot compete with Everquest or UO; their success depends entirely on the proper selection of a goal, of a forum that Everquest can't provide very well (like, for example, storytelling).

    There have already been threads on how graphics have dominated the game market. So has the requirement for an online component. With the single exception of The Longest Journey, there have no 'adventure' games that aren't mostly dependent on graphics or gameplay rather than story. Myst, IMO, has been recycled and redone too many times to qualify on the same level as The Longest Journey does. And TLJ didn't sell very well in the US, unfortunately. I think the reason why games like UO and Everquest can't accomodate storytelling on a very real level -- and the reason that really good adventure games like TLJ and Zork can't ever be multiplayer and won't sell well is because a story is a very intimate process. It accomodates, at most, a small group. With a book, you're engaged by the characters in the story; in a MUSH or a Zork, you /are/ the character in the story. But the success of the story is dependent on your involvement in it, or your engagement by it, and Verant would never hire the enormous staff that would be necessary to weave the kinds of characters and plots together to make -every- PC involved in a good story; with that many people, even if you had the writers, you couldn't keep consistency across a universe that large. So they're reduced to 'dungeon hacks,' short-term plots with tangible rewards. To say nothing of the fact that you have know how to participate in a story without ruining it for everyone else. In MMORPGs, all of the structure that exists to do so exists in terms of 'your ability to kick the sh*t out of other players.' It'd be laughable to even try and turn something like Everquest into a viable dramatic setting, where people actually need REASONS for slaying one another.

    end tirade.

  31. i tried to go follow the link by bluecalix · · Score: 4

    i tried to go follow the link but my dented lantern had sputtered out and i was afraid i might walk into the slavering fangs of a wandering grue. Strangely enough, my sword started glowing...

    --
    e x p e c t d e l a y . c o m
  32. This space intentionally left blank. by big.ears · · Score: 2

    See subject. ps. This is not off-topic--its an "inside" joke that you will understand if you have played Zork.

  33. Re:aaaahhhh zork... by nomadic · · Score: 2

    Tell me about it; I've played nethack for well over a DECADE and I've never even come close to winning. Get into the 20s and suddenly a giant mumak comes up and tramples you to death. Before they introduced them the cockatrice would kill you. Tempted to just give up and start copying save files...
    --

  34. Re:Any NEW converts out there? by nomadic · · Score: 2

    If I remember right you HAVE to kill the thief.
    --

  35. Re:aaaahhhh zork... by nomadic · · Score: 2

    Concentrating on every single move sucks the fun out of the game. Life isn't only about planning; intuition and quick thinking have a part too, and if you slowly plan out everything you do, it'll suck the fun out of life too.
    --

  36. Re:Text Adventures are Alive and Well... by connorbd · · Score: 2

    What about Curses? The modern IF world wouldn't exist without that one.

    There are some truly amazing games out there. I'm in the process of trying to write one myself (just started; don't ask if you can be a beta tester).

    /Brian

  37. Re:Zork?! by connorbd · · Score: 2

    Ah. The forerunner to Leisure Suit Larry... But if you want a much better dirty IF game play I-0. Adam Cadre is a weird dude but he writes some pretty good stuff -- just enough kink.

    /Brian

  38. Re:Kyoto Treaty by jayhawk88 · · Score: 2

    Perhaps your confusing Slashdot with another site? This is News for Nerds here. Yeah, I know, Kyoto will affect everyone, and I'm so shallow and politically naive for thinking it doesn't necessarily need to be discussed here, whatever. The fact is, I can check out any number of sites to get my Kyoto news. I come to Slashdot to read interviews about 20 year old games.

    Incidently, Slashdot wasn't doing the interviewing here, rather they just linked to another site which conducted the interview.

  39. PDP-10 Zork by fm6 · · Score: 2
    Thanks for the link. But sadly, there's still no access anywhere to the original PDP-10 Zork, the student project that started it all. Most people know this game only through the imperfect PDP-11 port (Dungeon) and the fragmented Infocom version (actually three new 64K dungeons, with most of the puzzles copied from the PDP-10 version). One can only hope that someday the PDP-10 revival will give us online access to all that MUDDLE software.

    __

  40. Any NEW converts out there? by Sebastopol · · Score: 3


    Whenver I read discussions about the original implementors, there's lots and lots of reminiscing by people in my age group (er, 28-33).

    But I'm curious, have any of you younger fellers played and Zorks, Enchanters, Deadline, Suspect, Starcross, Suspended, Plantefall, etc...??

    I'm wondering if young gamers of today (13-18) even have the patience to play all-text games, or if the memories of Zork are unique only to a certain age group...


    ---

    --
    https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
  41. Loved the book... found the game unplayable. by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 3

    I was maybe 8-10 years old when Zork I was out. I remember a choose-your-own-adventure type book that came out for it, which I read and enjoyed thoroughly. I found the Zork logo (with the opening door as the letter 'O') rather inviting...

    We didn't have a computer at home at that time (unless you count the Atari 2600, which I don't, though it was a lot of fun) but a friend of my mom's did. As it happened, they had Zork for their machine, which must've been an old 8086 or possibly a '286.

    I couldn't get through the game to save my life. Of course, I didn't have any of the game's documentation (if there was any) but I found the game to be majorly frustrating, as the game barfed at roughly 90% of the commands I tried to give it. I could only manage to get through a very small portion of the game, and only then due to my memory of the choose-your-own-adventure, not due to any actual ability to solve problems.

    I concluded that the game was a disappointment and eventually (after several days of getting nowhere) gravitated to the Space Invaders ripoff "Wavy Navy" instead. Still, I did really dig the book version...

    ----jjjiii

    --
    You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
  42. Text based games are not dead by egjertse · · Score: 3
    Despite the impression one might get when reading the interview, text based adventure/rpg games are not IMO completely dead - they still have a following.

    As I am an old MUD addict who still do the occational crusades online, I have noticed that the user-base on these things are not declining at any noticable rate. The average age of the players may be higher than in the "golden days" of text adventures, but they still do have a strong following.

    FYI: I mostly play on Viking MUD - not the largest of the MUDs, but it's the one I've been hanging around. I also use Frotz - the multiplatform Z-Engine - to play Infocom games on Linux. Not to forget of course, the original text adventure "Adventure" that has always been part of the Slackware Linux distribution, and the unforgettable Foom - a text adventure based on ID Softwares Doom game, using TADS - the Text Adventure Development System.

  43. Re:HHGTTG question.... by i0lanthe · · Score: 2

    Try the InvisiClues (probably the Heart Of Gold section) which are conveniently available at the bottom of:
    http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pete/Infocom/hitchhikers.ht ml

    --
    "The Crystal Wind is the Storm, and the Storm is Data, and the Data is Life"
  44. roguelikes by i0lanthe · · Score: 2
    Yeah, Rogue is considered hard - you are kind of at the mercy of the Random Number Generator.

    Ularn is quite winnable though (I have won it and I am a lousy and impatient roguelike player who never wins things.. ironic?), and is even being actively maintained again. As for all these newfangled games like Nethack and Angband, haven't played 'em yet, so can't comment.

    --
    "The Crystal Wind is the Storm, and the Storm is Data, and the Data is Life"
  45. them was the days... by tenzig_112 · · Score: 2
    Leatehr Goddesses of Phobos, H2G2, Planetfall.

    Ah. I've often wanted to build my own www-based text adventure. But can you imagine a page refresh for every mistyped command?


    Take the wrench
    [page refresh]
    "What do you mean?"
    Open the toolbox
    [page refresh]
    "What toolbox?"
    Look up
    [page refresh]
    "You see a shiny new toolbox sitting on the top shelf"
    Take the toolbox
    [page refresh]
    "You now have the toolbox"
    Open the toolbox
    [page refresh]
    "You see a shiny new wrench inside the toolbox."
    Take the wrench
    [page refresh]
    "You now have the toolbox. I hope you're happy."
    Quit

  46. The Baseball Diamond puzzle by b1t+r0t · · Score: 2
    From the linked article:

    Stephen Granade [S.G.]: If you had the chance to redo any of your Infocom games, which one would you change? What would you do differently, or would you avoid the game entirely?

    D.L.: I'd redo the infamous Baseball Diamond puzzle in Zork II, which has been an object of universal hatred ever since its implementation.

    I actually had to disassemble the Z-machine code to the game to figure out that puzzle. I had no clue that it was even a baseball reference until I read the object code.

    --

    --
    "Open source is good." - Steve Jobs
    "Open source is evil." - Microsoft
  47. You are amazed by twisty little passages by ackthpt · · Score: 3
    Loved the original (one of the variants, actually) I played on a PDP-11 back in '79. Our version, which was brought back on a tape from a Los Angeles DECUS didn't include the puzzle room with the blocks. A couple years later someone published a great map in a DECUser magazine and I believe I still have that somewhere.

    Zork I-III were a major disappointment. I picked up Zork (note: Not 'I') for the Apple ][ when it first hit the shelves and scampered (not ran, not shambled, not left a cycops shaped hole in the door, etc.) down to our college Apple Lab and booted up the game. I finished in about 15 minutes and was stunned how watered down it was and at how much was missing. I didn't bother to get the rest until picking up a collection of Infocom text adventures at a shop (probably for less than the Apple Zork disk cost me, not even accounting for inflation) and finished Zork II and was equally unimpressed. Haven't bothered with Zork III, but figure it's probably most of the other parts of the original VAX/PDP11 version with a couple new twists.

    Did enjoy his Lurking Horror game. Living in Michigan and being somewhat snowbound for a while I really got into it. Pity some of the puzzles were so non-obvious I had to buy the clue book. Even with the clue book some puzzles still seemed completely bizzare. I blame that on Activision, tho, since I believe this was after their acquisition of Infocom and an attempt to extract more bucks out of game players (a trend that seems to continue even today in action games.)

    Last Infocom game I got was DNA's Beauracracy. Too damn fun. I should pull that one out and play through it again.

    --
    All your .sig are belong to us!

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  48. Re:Try Tokimeki Memorial... plot and cute girls. by GTRacer · · Score: 2
    Should we start a petition?

    I'm waiting for a reliable and easy-to-install modchip for my PS2 so I can finally start importing all the dating/school-sim goodness!

    GTRacer
    - My high school experience SUCKED. At least on console, I can reload if things don't go my way...

    --
    Defending IP by destroying access to it? That makes sense, RIAA/MPAA. Go to the corner until you can play nice!
  49. It makes one misty eyed. by Tin+Weasil · · Score: 5

    >Open browser.
    The browser is now open.
    >Point browser at slashdot.
    I can't see any slashdot here!
    >Type slashdot.org in browser.
    You quickly type the information into the browser and press enter, the browser slowly... very slowly loads the web page.
    >Examine browser.
    The browser is currently displaying the slashdot.org home page. There is an interview here.
    >Skip interview.
    You don't read the interview.
    >Get first post.
    The first post is already taken.

  50. Then why did you use the word? by fmaxwell · · Score: 4

    You are in a well-lit room containing a mace, boots, and a plant.
    >Take mace
    I don't know the word "mace"
    >Take boots
    I don't know the word "boots"
    >Take plant
    I don't know the word "plant"
    >quit
    ...

  51. Text Adventures are Alive and Well... by *nixie · · Score: 2
    ...they've just gone underground.

    Here are a few modern, independently-written Interactive Fiction games that match or beat anything Infocom has produced:

    Photopia (scroll down)
    Metamorphoses
    For a Change
    Babel
    Worlds Apart

    For lots more, head over to The Best of IF.

  52. Plot? What's that? by kaszeta · · Score: 2
    I think most anyone that grew up in the early days of computer games feels this way. The early days of computing meant programming with tight memory constraints, little (compared to today) CPU power, and primitive text and graphics output. Thus, to make a good game, you had had to be creative (and a good programmer, much of the time), and the results showed.

    A good computer game is like a good novel, it creates the image of a world and forces your mind to fill in the details with your own imagination.

    The better text adventure games (and to a lesser extent, some of the earlier graphical RPG's, like Ultima III to VI) did an excellent job of this. Modern games tend to do a very poor job, they just do it with stereo sound and texture maps.

    Then again, we shouldn't be surprised. A trip to the movie theatre will show you that for the most part special effects long ago replaced imagination.

  53. Re:Kyoto Treaty by Dutchie · · Score: 2
    Yeah, I know, Kyoto will affect everyone, and I'm so shallow and politically naive for thinking it doesn't necessarily need to be discussed here, whatever.

    Don't put words in my mouth. I never said that slashdot, or it's readers, or even you are shallow and politically naive. I think there is lots of evidence supporting that this is not the case.

    I just sometimes don't understand the decision making process of the editors here at all; There's old news (Alan Cox resigning from Usenet), editor's own petpeeves (CmdrTaco's anime article), rather blatantly poorly written articles (JonKatz's 'movie review') etc. I do like slashdot, I come here every day and I like the discussions a lot, but sometimes you really have to wonder what drugs the editors are on :) Maybe that's part of the charm of the site, that we also get to nag at the editors a lot... SO NAG!! :)

    • Imagination is more important than knowledge.
    --
    • Imagination is more important than knowledge.

      • -- Albert Einstein
  54. Re:Why do you expect so much? by Dutchie · · Score: 2
    NDPTAL85, Slashdot is definitely NOT a hobbyist site. I make money, like all the editors here. I like my work, like most of the editors here. But despite liking my job, and getting paid for it on the side, because it IS a paid job, I try to do it as good as I can. I am a professional. I became a professional when I started getting paid for what I do since my employers think I'm pretty good at what I do. Slashdot editors are professionals too. I suspect most of them LIKE what they do here. I never argued that. But since they are professionals they SHOULD do the best they can instead of pushing their own websites, posting double news (at least Timothy apologised for that, kudos) or writing movie reviews that indeed could be in a high school newspaper. And Katz knows how to write well. He just did (in my opinion and quite a few of the posters) a halfassed job on the movie review.

    Now, in case you don't realise this, it is US who pay these people their income, mostly through ad revenues. We are their customers. Your opinion that 'THATS FINE' is like Adobe customers saying 'THATS FINE' when Adobe sells them crap.

    Lastly, I said in my previous post that I LIKE slashdot, I APPRECIATE slashdot, BUT my criticism stands. It's my opinion, it's a well explained opinion too.

    Oh wait, one more thing. What you call 'obscure' is all over the world considered to be a MAJOR milestone of very big importance. It even surpasses your beloved American right of Free Speech or the DMCA. If you can't BREATHE, you cannot speak you know. Reconsider your opinion and read the article I pointed out, and also try and find somewhat less American centric news reporting about it, it's worth the read, PARTICULARLY for nerds who want to be around and who want their children to be around for a few more generations.

    • Imagination is more important than knowledge.
    --
    • Imagination is more important than knowledge.

      • -- Albert Einstein
  55. Re:Why do you expect so much? by Dutchie · · Score: 2
    • Treaty that no other "developed" nation has ratified yet either.

    200 countries have signed the treaty. But thank God that the "developped" USA that locks underdevelopped foreigners in jail comes to the rescue.

    • Imagination is more important than knowledge.
    --
    • Imagination is more important than knowledge.

      • -- Albert Einstein
  56. Here's how to write a graphic driver Infocom-style by absurd_spork · · Score: 3
    I know it's slightly offtopic, but there was a rather frustrated post once on a BeOS mailing list from a guy who had to write a graphic driver for BeOS and made an Infocom-style text adventure out of his rather frustrating experiences with it...

    Here's a small excerpt (Formatting is a bit cruddy):

    You are in a cube. In front of you is a 16" (visible) Sony monitor. In front of that is a Mitsumi keyboard and an unbranded mouse. Just to the right is a 266 MHz PC clone. The system is running a development version of BeOS R4.
    There is a graphics card here.
    There is a floppy disk here.
    There is a note from your boss here.
    There is a Hoberman sphere here.
    > INVENTORY
    You have a well-used satchel. Inside it are

    • A set of screwdrivers
    • A small telescope
    • A 16M laptop RAM module
    • A book on decorative knots
    • A PCMCIA Ethernet card
    • Last year's tax return
    • A 166 MHz Pentium laptop computer
    • A bottle of echinacea capsules
    • Hair sticks
    Your wallet contains $3200.
    > REPLACE KEYBOARD
    You put aside the amazingly cruddy Mitsumi keyboard and substitute your favorite AT&T keyboard.
    > PUT LAPTOP ON DESK
    The laptop is now on the desk.
    > READ NOTE
    "Write a driver for this card. We'd like it in time for R4 release."
    > EXAMINE GRAPHICS CARD
    You are evidently the proud owner of a Yoyodyne Monstra VelocElite-LX 128-3D-AGP graphics card.
    > INSERT CARD IN MACHINE
    The machine emits a curious and worrying noise.
    > TURN OFF MACHINE AND INSERT CARD
    The graphics card is now installed in the machine.
    > TURN ON MACHINE
    BeOS R4(devel) boots. You are looking at a gray scale desktop.
    > EXAMINE FLOPPY DISK
    The handwritten label reads, "Programming docs."
    >INSERT DISK AND PRINT DOCS
    Nothing happens.
    > INSERT DISK, MOUNT DISK, AND PRINT DOCS
    The drive spins for a moment, and the command prompt returns.
    > READ DOCS
    I see no docs here.
    > GO TO PRINTER AND GET DOCS
    The printer is out of paper.
    > PUT PAPER IN PRINTER
    There is no paper here.
    > STEAL PAPER FROM COPIER UPSTAIRS
    After installing the liberated paper in the printer, you print your docs.
  57. too bad.... by _avs_007 · · Score: 2

    Its too bad Zork didn't have any of the 'g' and 'm' commands from some of the MUDs I found myself in. I remember in college one of my friends was into mudding, and I never saw the fun in a text based game. I got into it one day, and this other character kept harassing me in the game. She showed me the suit of commands like mfeel, gsex, msex, etc etc. Jeez, sometimes my past embarasses me :)

    I never played Zork too much because I was busy playing Leisure Suit Larry ;) Those games were sure fun, when you had to type in your commands. By the time Larry 6 came around the fun kinda disappeared. I mean, clicking the zipper icon on everything gets kind of lame after a while ;) Though it was fun peeing in the water fountain... :)

    1. Re:too bad.... by _avs_007 · · Score: 2

      mfeel will generate some random response like:

      You [insert adjective here] feel/rub/touch/kiss the [insert another adjective] [insert body part] of [insert character name]
      followed by a response from the character. Depending on the character traits, the character will generate some type of sound like a purr, a grunt, a schriek, or they will return the favor, or they will instigate further action ;) , or they will assault you. (if you try to mfeel another guy if you are a guy, etc etc) Also, these commands aren't limited to players. They work with inanimate objects too ;) One of my friends was a wizard in the MUD, and even coded some "special" rooms hidden in the MUD, heh heh :) Wouldn't want to bump into those "monsters" by accident :o

  58. The Rewards of Text-Gaming by UberOogie · · Score: 4
    I've got to say, that as good as games today are, I never had as rewarding an experience as playing those text-based Infocom games of way back when.

    Even modern adventure/puzzle games, which can be quite good (Last Express, Discworld, etc.), don't really match the level of achievement I felt when playing A Mind Forever Voyaging, for example.

    I mean, one of the single most vivid memories of my youth was sitting in from of my old Commie and finally figuring out the last bit of the Babel Fish puzzle.

    A measly little air frag with a railgun will never, ever equal it.

    --
    "Enough of this wretched, whining monkey life." -- Marcus Aurelius, _Meditations_, Book 9, 37
  59. Demise ofthe Adventure genre?? by Smedrick · · Score: 4

    It's interesting to see what Lebling had to say about the so-called demise of the adventure genre. I suppose he's right in some respects, but the situation is a bit more complex than that. I think what's really dying is the idea of genres themselves. I mean, categories like your tried-and-true sports and puzzles are here to stay...they're pretty defninite in form and function. But all the other genres seem to be mixing into one big pot. You've got RTS games with a hint of sim (or even FPS in some cases). You've got RPGs mixing up with action and strategy aspects. I think I've even seen a role-playing racing sim out there somewhere.

    IMO the adventure genre is still alive, only it has taken on many different forms. And even if there seems to be a decline of "adventure" in today's games, I'm sure it'll come back in fashion tomorrow because the video game industry cycles. Games like Zork are simply to frickin' sweet to just fade away out of existence like that.

    --

    --
    "I strongly urge both the faint of heart and the faint of butt to leave the room at this time."
    - Strong Bad
  60. HHGTTG question.... by spike2131 · · Score: 2

    How do you figure out which tool Marvin the Paranoid Android will want to use to open the hatchway from the Heart of Gold out onto the planet? He asks for a different tool every time. I've been stuck there for months....

    --
    SpyDock: Scientific Python in a Docker container