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High Tech in Africa: Geeks Needed
srl writes: "The Boston Globe is running a series about high tech in Africa--- talking about how the continent needs a lot of geeks willing to work there to build Net infrastructure. (Anyone want to take on a big project?) The series as a whole is interesting and sheds light on a topic that most American geeks probably don't spend time thinking about. See also part 1, about the new high-speed fiber link to Africa and part 2, about cybercafes in Africa."
and some free aids medication would come in handy too...
I can tell that this article will be full of quality discussion, with absolutely no racist posts whatsoever! Go Slashdot!
There's a difference between 'poverty' and a substistence lifesyle. Poverty is America's inner-city, you can't grow your food in a tenement. A lot of these people who live in the rural area are at least self supporting.
Education is just as important as those other things, and the Internet will help there! Teach a man to fish, etc.
Great article about Africa. So many of you seem to know what's best for the entire continent of Africa. Well, please do join us in finding some real solutions. We're looking for some consultants to do multimedia development work in Uganda. If you want to work with highly motivated and skilled Ugandans in an excellent multimedia development lab and really see what it is like on the ground then please let me know. We could use some help and not just a bunch of skilled but unaware people talking smack. If you're up for the challenge and have an open mind and really want to make an impact then join us. Consultant Posting Listed Below. http://www.aed.org/employment/openings/consulting/ consulting.html
Good cause, wrong arcticle.
Several sobering comments come to mind.
Consequently, you have to sort out language, stability, security, economic and technical issues before jumping on this. Trust me on this one.
Always the first to benefit are multinational corporations exporting and controlling those projects.
Always second to benefit are local power brokers.
Almost never to benefit is the local population.
E.g. consider whether your job could be putting someone local into some money, even if she is only second best for the job. This is true even if you don't take any money - Who's paying those tickets, your health insurance etc.?
These are the worthy issues to be addressed. Once a country is stable, with a minimal economic infrastructure, food production, health care and education, without hostile neighbors, sustaining development is a piece of cake.
With these basic, but unwelcome messages in mind, what can YOU do?
Consequently, people collecting and shipping such things, as well as establishing local receiving communities and building the necessary skills are all important tasks for which nobody needs to travel.
See, without moving from your desk, there's lots of things to do.
What we need in africa is good-old capitalism. No more "do-gooder-hippie-commies" that come to africa with a warped ideas of how a society should work (ideas that "surprisingly" enough has never been implemented in any western country).
No more "parking meters donated by SIDA", no more "condoms - donated by Japan" just some straight free trade. We need growth - not gifts. Responsible politicians - not western aid agencies continuously accepting that the african polititians lie, steal, nationalise and kill.
We need bandwitdth, goddammit!
OK, some of you talk about the bad things. Let's look at these:
As a former PCV (Peace Corps Volunteer) I can attest to the value of PC on your resume. Also, believe it or not, there is more to life than money. You might just learn something about yourself and/or the world if you get out of your server room.
Humans have been on this planet for an awful long time and PC, for one, has excellent healthcare. So what if you get Dengue fever (I did) or a few parasites (got them too). The benefits of your experience will far outweigh any foolish American fears of a few microbes. There are 750 million people in Africa - obviously Africa is a great place to live, else there'd be zero. Finally on this topic - most diseases/parasites are easily avoided by simple hygiene - boil your water, don't have unprotected sex...
yes, some of these places have violence and most are very corrupt (by the American definition) but, then, that's why they are developing countries. Look around you. violence and corruption are a part of even an American life. Are you so naiive as to believe our gov't. is free of corruption? Go to a developing country, learn to work the system and when you return, you'll be like one of Paul Atredies' Fremen on a new planet - you'll work circles around your stupid co-workers. (ok, bad analogy)
You gain strength from doing the thing you think you can not do. I built a computer lab in a rural rice-farming village where there is no running water and little electricity. If you've got what it takes, you can do anything!
Still reading? Maybe YOU have what it takes. PeaceCorps The toughest job you'll ever love!
Well, some geeks are not necessarily money focused and might just want to help the people. After all, isn't that why we work on Open Source Software?
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Actually, you *do* need "tech" people to set up running water, wells, power grids, solar/wind energy, better crop yield and that sort of thing. It's called appropriate technology, and people study to do basically that sort of thing in poor countries. A college roommate of mine studied that for a couple years.
Of course it's a slightly different kind of "tech" than your average geek. But there could be some overlap.
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Somehow I managed to omit that rather critical detail. The world did not make Sankoh the leader of the rebels; rather, it rewarded his savage violence as expressed through the RUF (chopping children's legs and arms off, sewing womens' vaginas shut with fishing line, and padlocking villagers' mouths shut for the simple crime of being outside the RUF) by endorsing a peace accord which made him Vice President of the entire country.
It's as if the UN had endorsed Hitler for Prime Minister of Israel.
No wonder most of Africa continues to starve in poverty. With 'friends' like the US, who needs enemies? Note to self: there are organizations even more cynical than Microsoft and Monsanto, and my tax dollars are paying for them. Woohoo!
In any event, no amount of fiber optic cable is going to improve the lives of people in countries like Sierra Leone until decent leaders are nudged into power and the economies can be built up to the point that ordinary citizens are not preoccupied with starvation, AIDS, and fleeing from murderous warlords.
Bonus: foreign aid workers will also be less likely targets for torture, murder, and mutilation if there is some incentive for leaders to act like moderately civilized human beings (as opposed to criminally insane sadists). This means you, Network Boy...
Remember that what's inside of you doesn't matter because nobody can see it.
And I would have to say that is more critical than internet connectivity.
.JPGs and fiber optics will do the trick, by all means, that's a worthy goal. Still, the only useful wealth in the long term comes from within an economy, never from without.
/. (where this over-focus on technology is not only appropriate but part of the appeal), it seems like talk of wiring up Africa is another pathologically Western case of putting the cart before the horse.
Hard to use a keyboard when RUF rebels have chopped your hands off (Sierra Leone), when your entire city has been murdered (Rwanda), or you're dizzy from exhaustion because the food and supplies to your region have been obliterated by land mines for the third time in as many months and you're starving to death (Angola), or you're busy dying of AIDS (one out of every four people in subsaharan Africa). An ISP is not going to help the common man in these countries nearly as much as an international body with a spine (eg. one that would not agree to make Foday Sankoh, the leader of the vicious, terrorist RUF rebels in Sierra Leone) or something akin to dignity, especially on the part of the US and France. God knows it couldn't hurt to have more of the world's masses aware of the hell that exists in most of West and Central Africa, though -- if
As usual, foreign 'aid' is best suited for generating contempt and dependency. Vietnam, for example, is doing quite well these days, in spite of America's best efforts. Meanwhile the majority of Africa outside of Egypt and Tunisia continues to go straight to hell, as the world cynically manipulates the 'leaders' to exploit its resources, and ignores millions of civilians being killed as an indirect consequence of our (Western) foreign policy decisions.
Somehow, even in a forum like
Remember that what's inside of you doesn't matter because nobody can see it.
Actually, I've been to Sierra Leone (shortly before the government fell), and they had plenty of cars and no horses, at least in Freetown. There's no particular reason not to skip levels of technology, if the higher tech is available from somewhere else.
Sierra Leone's government was, in fact, founded on law and democracy; as far as I could tell, they just couldn't withstand a concerted attack from the gang/robber rebel types when it happened. On the other hand, the neighboring countries did a pretty good job of helping. In that area, at least, the violence was primarily anti-government. Of course, the country was primarily made up of returned British slaves, which gives them a rather different culture from parts of Africa with uninterrupted traditions.
There's a certain amount of IT that is worth doing even at this point. IT will probably give you a better financial return on investment than, say, clean water; once you have some level of IT (and electricity to run it), you can get the money to get good clean water.
What most people don't realize about Africa is exactly the climate. Basically, it's not too bad for people, but it really sucks for devices. What I know about is from Freetown, Sierra Leone (before the government fell).
For a month each year, dust blows off of the Sahara. It gets on everything. It's reddish and fine.
For a month each year, it rains. The soil is not very good, and it's hard to reach bedrock. You get mudslides. You get buildings washing away, not because they collapse, but because the ground underneath them goes.
It's otherwise hot and humid in general.
The utilities are rather flaky, because they're not the best equipment and the conditions are bad for them. Also, people don't depend on them enough to pay to keep them well maintained.
So setting up the tech is the least of your worries. The main issue is keeping the hardware working; you have to contend with hot weather, humidity, airborne particles, and power fluxuations. Sure, you can have A/C, but you have to keep that working, clean the filters, and you probably want to turn it off when the power fails, or you're likely to burn out your generator. About the only worse thing that could happen to a machine is throwing it off a cliff, which might happen, too, if you pick the wrong building.
It's certainly possible on a first-world budget, but setting things up for local budgets or funded by donations is likely to be extremely challenging.
How so? I mean this not as flamebait, but quite seriously.
"There's no secret. You just press the accelerator to the floor and keep turning left." -- Bill Vukovich
People seem to be suggesting that you build up to the current modern tech level gradually. Like you, I think it may be worth trying to use the tech level of the US, Europe, etc. to try and pull the third world up faster. This could make for some really interesting research.
I think a lot of it would be installing infrastructure that is REALLY REALLY robust. Not necessarily state of the art.
Could be an interesting type of project. If there wasn't such a danger of getting killed just because I'm white and american, I would love to be involved for a while. Sigh.
"There's no secret. You just press the accelerator to the floor and keep turning left." -- Bill Vukovich
I was thinking of things like fiber ... :-)
...
And yes I KNOW that there is no electric grid. There are already places where solar powered data terminals with radio and/or satellite uplinks are just BFE out in the middle of nothing
And I'm in no way trying to imply that health care and educational infrastructure isn't important, just that good information connectivity could possibly help these move from non-existant to much better faster.
Of course, you are correct about the government. THAT is something that really can't be developed in parallel with IT structure until after a certain point.
"There's no secret. You just press the accelerator to the floor and keep turning left." -- Bill Vukovich
People I have talked to from south africa painted a picture of the entire region that, quite frankly, scared the hell out of me.
What they talked about, and they did talk about more than just their contry, was pretty bad. Of course from what you are saying it may be that the rest of the country is more sane ...
I guess I chalk up my thoughts to very limited (and probably quite biased) input.
It's interesting to hear from someone with an experience 180 degrees out of phase.
"There's no secret. You just press the accelerator to the floor and keep turning left." -- Bill Vukovich
Dare I ask how you ended up hitchhinking across the continent? Hopefully for fun? :-)
"There's no secret. You just press the accelerator to the floor and keep turning left." -- Bill Vukovich
Look into the Peace Corps again, and make sure to talk with someone with the latest information. They have IT projects in the Carribean and Eastern Europe.
IAAL,BIANLY
Depends a lot on where you are. My SO is, in fact, out in Niger more or less digging furrows and planting trees. Peace Corps is an incredibly varied group; they do have people wiring villages in many parts of the world but in others they work hard at very, very simple things like farming.
IAAL,BIANLY
Or... wiring villages? PC does it. Like I said in my other comment, PC does /everything/- from the very purely techie to very, very manual labor.
IAAL,BIANLY
I can't find a link ATM, but I know the real Peace Corps now has IT programs in the Carribean and Eastern Europe.
IAAL,BIANLY
Hrm. They were talking them up at their recruitment booth at Duke in January... too bad if they really are vapor.
IAAL,BIANLY
Economic Freedom in Sub-Saharan Africa says: ...Sub-Saharan Africa remains by far the least economically free of all regions: None of the 36 countries graded received a "free" rating, and only five--Benin, Mali, Botswana, Namibia and Mauritius--were found to be "mostly free." The decline in Zimbabwe's score caused it to slip into the "repressed" category, where it joined Guinea-Bissau. South Africa's score worsened as well, with increased government regulations bumping it to the "mostly unfree" category, along with 28 other African nations.
The editors suspended grading for six African nations--Angola, Burundi, Congo, Sierra Leone, Somalia and Sudan--due to the unreliability of data caused by either their civil unrest or "prolonged state of anarchy." They will be included in future editions once "political stability returns."
Africa Betrayed: George Ayittey, a native of Ghana, recalls the exhilaration that swept the continent when colonialism ended. But soon native African leaders began plundering their nations' economies, imprisoning political opponents, and blocking economic progress.
Although those leaders rejected capitalism because of its mistaken identification with colonialism, Africa actually has a tradition of markets and decentralization. Ayittey lays out that tradition before describing the Colonial Era, the march toward tyranny, the de facto apartheid, the military regimes, the intellectual repression, the corruption, and the dubious conduct of the West.
Everyone's favorite angry SF site protest site has some interesting images from on the ground in Africa.
A little dated but sadly still very applicable I think...
=tkk
Bill Gates - Creationist?!?
What do you think they send trained folks out for, to dig furrows? Naw it's folks to help with water systems and modern accounting & yes, bringing the internet out to rural villages.
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
If you give an African a hand-out, you're doing nothing for them other than teaching them to expect hand-outs...
Why is it we assume that Africans can't do these things themselves? Oh, I know, they're poor and black -- what unsubtle arrogance the helpful-left have.
Sounds to me that "humanitarian aid" is a way for "progressives" to be racists...
Potato chips are a by-yourself food.
Granted, there is a certain degree of responsibility that we (meaning non-African countries) have because of what we did in the past. However, the problems Africa has now are caused largely by Africans -- poking our well-fed fingers into the pie won't help much, especially big block cash grants from places like the IMF or World Bank. Most of that money comes from countries like the US, and most of that money goes right back to the US in the form of consulting fees and equipment purchases and the like.
Your example of WWII is particularly good, because the Marshall Plan did exactly what the IMF/WorldBank does now -- transfer of wealth from taxpayers to $COUNTRY, back to US, into the pockets of industrialists and war profitteers. Granted, Europe got some buildings and highways rebuilt, but by and large it was a scheme to help those with government connections get a chunk of cash.
In addition, I'm unwilling to say that a Mbundu tribesman who hunts and/or grows food, lives in harmonic balance with the land is "uncivilized", or even "poor". They may only make $15/year, but their needs are met. What gives us the right to meddle with their lives?
Potato chips are a by-yourself food.
You've hit on it -- check out the Grameen Bank. I believe it started in Bangledesh, and has done more for the Bangledeshi people than truckloads of foriegn aid.
Re: Marshall Plan, a somewhat decent example is _The Reconstruction of Western Europe_ by Alan Milward. He doesn't cover what *I* think is a reason (my earlier statement of a transfer of weath to industrialists -- that's my own theory), but he does argue that the Marshall Plan had a minimal effect. (didn't find the book at Amazon -- you may have to do some serious searching for it. I believe it was published in 1980? Early eighties, anyway).
Finally, you were in Somalia? Ye gods... In P.J. O'Rourke's book _All the Trouble in the World_, P.J. quoted a US serviceman who said, "Somalia? Give 'em better guns and training and seal the border". Somalia is screwed up on so many levels, I doubt anybody can point to one thing and cry "Culprit!". But I can imagine that the people were desperate for political and economic stability -- it's the one thing that government's good for: providing for a defense of a country's way of life and aiding a stable currency.
Potato chips are a by-yourself food.
In short, they need a far better potential for producing their own food. "Teach a man to fish" and all that.
And I would have to say that is more critical than eating.
Hard to hold a fork or a spoon or a food bowl when RUF rebels rebels have chopped your hands off (Sierra Leone)...
Come on! Don't you see that a communications infrastructure will help Africans to generate wealth?
Having returned from PC Poland 15 I know of the offerings of the Peace Corps in Eastern Europe. There's nothing out there.
Speaking from experience, Peace Corps in no way supports bringing Internet to rural villages.
It's about teaching, but more about politics. Making host country politicians happy by sending English teachers to certain schools, even if these schools don't have nearly the need of other schools in the country. Having Peace Corps country directors attend diplomatic functions instead of the Ambassador.
Anything more than teaching is helping host country nationals in writing deceptive grants so as to take advantage of NGOs and charitable organizations by using money for existing programs/salaries/new computers for directors, etc.
We actually had a seminar in November 1999 in Kasimirz Dolny on "Creative Grant Writing" while I was a PC Poland 15 volunteer. I was absolutely sick to my stomach.
I highly recommend any private volunteer organization over the US Peace Corps.
Let me guess, you've paid lots of money for your M$ certification and are now afraid of loosing your job ?
I pity you !
- sigs are for wimps.
I spent some time in Kenya in the 1990's building a medical clinic in North Eastern Kenya (no, the place is not on a map). I enjoyed it over there.
I would not mind going back to help the people out there develop an internet structure, or, to help teach...
So, where do I go to do this. I know I won't make a fortune doing it. Thats not my goal. I am a single geek, so it would not be that hard for me to uproot and head over to Kenya for a few years.
So, how do I go about doing that?
(Note: I am Canadian, not American. I am looking for international contacts, not local ones.)
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
Africa's biggest problem is cultural
You hit the nail on the head. Africa's cultural problem is that Africa's had about 200 years or less to accomplish the social evolution that European countries had 1000 years to do. This is with the generous assumption that Europe in 1000 AD was as socially and technologically sophisticated as Africa was circa 1800, which may be dubious at best for sub-Saharan Africa.
"There are 750 million people in Africa - obviously Africa is a great place to live, else there'd be zero."
WTF is that? What bullshit! That's like saying "90% of Black Americans live in the Ghetto - obviously the Ghetto is a great place to live, else there'd be zero."
I refuse to appologize for my self-preservation instinct.
Blar.
Let me just summarize the comments I have read so far:-
(1) Africans are too poor to care about the internet
This is absolutely NOT true. It is true that Africa is a lot poorer than the US, but you have to remember that the US is very wealthy country. Just because the average African does not have an SUV does NOT mean that all Africans are starving and illiterate. To put it more succintly there are plenty of Africans who have access to the basic necessities of life and are interested in "extras" such as internet connectivity.
My evidence? 20 years of living and growing up in Dar Es Salaam, Tanzania and Mbabane, Swaziland. A computer costs ~2,000 USD. But at home there are no shortage of luxury German and Japanese cars that cost at least 40,000 USD each. True this is the elite, but just because something will help the elite NOW, does not mean that it will not be relevant to the majority soon. In the US electricity, telephones, PCs were first adopted by the affluent. The resulting volumes sales eventually brought the price down to a level afforded by the masses. The same thing in Africa, just because only the most educated and wealthy people will be able to use it now, that does not mean that the resulting infrastructure will not grow to encompass the rest of the people. (Or to put it another way, should Europe in the middle age have abandoned all Science and tech research until they had reached "modern" level of income? Hah!) Summary: Some Africans aren't starving and actually care about accessing the internet, and they aren't an irrelevenat minority.
(2) They need to get (water, health care, stable government e.t.c) first.
This is just so WRONG, I don't even know where to begin. Society is not made up of bits and pieces that can be addressed one bit at a time, but rather it is an organic whole where everything affects everything else. Do you really think that cheap and easy communication with the rest of the world is not going to have any impact on African societies? Lets put it this way:- Do you think the internet has had NO impact on American society? Of course it has, this technology really is powerful, the ability to communicate information quickly and cheaply makes an enormous difference in the long run, even if it is only introduced very gradually at first. Thus a fibre-optic backbone will not end starvation immediately, it certainly won't do any harm, and it will likely create plenty of opportunities for Africans to help themselves. Its not magic bullet, but the risks of falling further and further behind are far greater than the risks of plunging ahead with this technology.
Only time will tell, what the outcome will be, but I feel confident in saying that 10 years from now, the situation will be no worse in Africa than it is today and very probably it will be better. And that just might be because of more bandwidth as unlikely as it might sound.
Mugizi Robert Rwebangira
Dar Es Salaam, Tanzania
mrrweban@us.ibm.com(for the summer)
The only reason all cover-ups appear to fail is that you never hear about the ones that succeed.
Sema mzee, umewaambia kweli! he he( a TZ geek)
The only reason all cover-ups appear to fail is that you never hear about the ones that succeed.
After reading a list of common parasites in Africa, I think I will be staying in the nice, pollution filled skies of Smoggy California. There is one that crawls up the hole in your willy, lays eggs, and then leaves. That's more than enough to keep me away, THANKYOUVERYMUCH.
JoeLinux
I'm about to enter the last year of a BSc in CS. I plan on going to graduate school after I graduate, but I will have the summer off in-between. I wouldn't mind spending that summer volunteering. But none of these organisation seem interested!
Geek Corps is the only one with terms small enough to fit into a summer; and they want at least 3 years of real-world experience (actually I probably have that if you add up all my summer jobs)! Students, as a group, are the most likely to have the time and interest in this kind of volunteering, yet we're just not wanted. Shouldn't these organisations be making this at least as easy as getting a summer internship at the Evil Empire?
This is just like organisations not accepting donations of computers below a certain power level...
Sure was smart of us to eliminate all our poverty and corruption before building -our- net infrastructure! Boy what an international laughingstock we would be if we had tried to get everyone wired up while there were still people starving in our country.
Yeah, lets have peace and dignity and cleanliness in Africa before we help them get online - after all, every computer geek who is building an information superhighway is a geek who is not building a sewer system and fighting aids! You are all prepared to build sewers and fight political corruption and implement health programs over there, right?
Lets stop trying to solve one problem before we solve the one before - we can only do one thing at a time, after all.
While I agree completely with you and the poster you are responding to, I also think that people were talking about a priority scale where giving food would be more important.
I'm going to help a relief organization in Mozambique this autumn, and have been talking to them about how to get their internet services up and running better than they are now. They have 1200 sites, most of which are in the bush, and two cellular modems which connect to the national ISP. A major problem they have is sending mass e-mails to interested supporters; frequently their ISP drops large numbers of the e-mails, and doesn't tell them about it.
Do you all know of any high speed options / LEO satellite / commercial companies that support businesses in Africa? I've been puzzling through how to get them better services, but I'm sure the collective wisdom of the slashdot community is greater than what I can turn up on my own.
What is he gonna do with his life now -- make better than the national average, live at a decent first-world standard of living, and have enough money in his bank account to live on when he retires?
You're so cruel.
Yes college kids, you too can blow $100,000 on a college education so you can set up FidoNet nodes in Ghana, for free.
Point is, it's not unreasonable to expect that if tech skills are really in demand, they would be willing to spring for above average compensation, at least by their standards.
--
Terrorists can attack freedom, but only Congress can destroy it.
Bad beer.
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
the arguement for internet connectivity is, (as is mentioned in teh article) that it allows access to a knowledgebase on how to properly do all of the things they need. ie proper crop rotation, power grids, etc..... with access to the network they can actually set it up correctly and efficiently the first time rather than repeating all the mistakes we made the first time around.
"Manuel Ribiero, cofounder of Fusion Interactive, a Cape Town Web-hosting firm, said that so many South Africans became Microsoft Certified Software Engineers, or MCSEs, that the economy can't absorb them all. ''What do you say to an MCSE?'' asked Ribiero. ''Can I have fries with that?'' Desperate for work, many have left for Europe, he said."
Ouch.
--
Charles E. Hill
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
This is the second time in the past few weeks that I have ended up posting a reply about South Africa. I'm South African myself, and I've lived here my entire life ( 25 years ) and I'm puzzled by some of your comments.
In particular, I don't know what the fluctuating laws are that you are referring to. The government in power ( ANC ) has introduced a few laws but I hardly think that the situation is as you describe it. Granted, some of the laws have been dumb. However, the yanks have the DMCA, so I guess we're even on that score.
The big problem down here is crime. Like you implied in your post, crime is incredible. It's violent in a way that I doubt Slashdot readers could comprehend. We have the highest rape and murder rates outside of a warzone. That's a fact, not exaggeration.
The other big problem is HIV / AIDS. It has taken ( and will continue to take ) a massive toll on the country. Some figures say that as many as 1 in 5 sexually active adults is infected with the HIV virus. This is complicated by the fact that our current president ( Thabo Mbeki ) does not believe that AIDS is caused by the HIV virus. He seems to think it is caused by poverty ( Nelson Mandela, however, knows that HIV causes AIDS. Compared to Mbeki, he's a saint ).
As far as the IT side of things goes, I think that Americans would be surprised. I have worked as a Linux sysadmin for quite a few companies down here. The biggest problem is the so-called 'brain drain' which has been caused by all the skilled ( mostly white ) workers who have departed these shores for greener pastures. I can't blame them. I'm emigrating myself in a few months time.
It's tough here for whites. It's tougher for blacks. Even the average black person here believes that life is worse now than under the previous National Party government ( Apartheid ). Crime is worse. Poverty is worse. Unemployment is worse. It's really a tragedy, when the completely corrupt and evil system of apartheid is remembered by some people ( many of them black ) as the good old days.
As for the topic of this Slashdot story: I can't recommend to the average American to come here. I don't think that he would have the stomach for the conditions. You would have to be an a real thrill-seeking nerd with brass balls to survive it. I suggest that you all continue to write the fine open source software that you have being pumping out from the comfort of your home countries ( In the USA and the rest of the world ). If anything is going to liberate and empower people here, it will be knowledge and education. That's the kind of knowledge that the Linux community has been passing on through the wide range of free ( as in beer and speech ) software.
Free software levels the playing field. It is just as accessible to the first world as the third world. It costs $0 for both of us.
Best Regards,
Peter Knowles
If you are interest in volunteering, check out the Geek Corps. It like the Peace Corps but for the technical able. They are looking for both volunteers and donations.
I have no relationship with Geek Corps but I've always thought it looked like a great idea.
That 4% is also a major player in the countries GDP and has nothing to do with 99.99+% of the people in the country. Have you noticed that all of the poorest countries are in places where the weather won't kill you? Have you been to any of these places? They all seem to have a cultural lazyness that they have had for thousands of years if not longer.
That's one of the primary problems in Africa. Many African governments a) can't provide basic services b) squander and/or abscond with the basic natural resources many of these countries have (do a Google search on "Nigeria oil resources theft government") c) continually wage war on one another at the drop of a hat.
Africa's biggest problem is cultural - mostly the concept of "resource sharing", as in, you made it well in the economy, so give me some of it, rather than, you made it well in the economy, let me study how you did it so I can replicate it.
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"We're sorry, but the website you're trying to reach has been disconnected."
Can you compete with the cost undercutting of an african code sweatshop?
No, and I can't compete with a 12 year old in a Nike sweatshop putting together shoes. Because I don't fscking make shoes, nor do I write the kind of crap-code that a kid working for a bowl of rice is going to churn out.
The day I'm no more valuable than some barely-English speaking third-worlder who knows nothing about the business (pick a business - any business) is the day I go apply at the Taco Bell. You want hot or mild sauce?
Let me know when Africa, Indonesia et al start cranking out those killer apps.
Tough call.
Not for me. I'm an American. I welcome the competition.
Sorry for the Ed Anger rant there, but jeez louize...
I'd look into the GeekCorps if you're really interested. They send teams on 4 month journeys to countries to help develop their network and computer infastructure.
There's a volunteer project that sends geeks to Ghana to help businesses. You can read about it at geekhalla. I'm pretty sure /. has even had a story about it at some point in the past.
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I hope you're not pretending to be evil while secretly being good. That would be dishonest.
Don't you think the Africans themselves know best what they need?
It is so paternalistic, neocolonial even, to tell "What Africa needs". Everyone always seems to know. And funny enough, you hardly hear the phrase "What Europe needs", because we all know that Europe is a diverse region, with several different countries. Same goes for Africa.
In my opinion, all countries in the world should have the same rights to trade. But western countries (and the westernized ones in the east)protect themselves and eachother, keeping the money in their own circle.
As long as we keep that in place, no underdeveloped country will ever get the chances we give ourselves.
In my spare time I write books and have done several MCSE study guides (just released a Linux LPIC one!). I got email from people in Africa a *LOT*. Many people there are studying up to get certifications thinking that is the way to get to Europe and the US.
I'd say at least 2/3 of my mail was from Africa, usually Nigeria.
Gaan naai jou ma, jou hoerskont. As ek jou kry, gat ek jou ballas plattrap soos posseels.
I spent 12 years living in SA, six of them in a rural area and six in Hillbrow, downtown Johannesburg. I'm afraid I have to agree that parts of the country are scarily violent and dangerous. Consider, though, the fact that poverty is endemic in SA and that there are very many weapons still circulating that were hidden during the Apartheid era, and the violence moves into perspective.
You're completely ignoring the relevance of this information.
If you're poor, how do you afford the solutions offered online? (IE, information is free, but implementation rarely is) What good is information on a world you live in if you can't afford to go anywhere? (Nevermind that 95% of that information inherently assumes you're from a completetly different culture, thus much of it loses its relevence, usefulness, or poingancy.)
But lets say, for whatever reason, that browsing the net enriches your mind, and makes you happy, a la any given MSN Messenger commercial. So, you give people jobs building this internet. Where does the money come from? Presumably from people who now have jobs. But what are they buying? I don't imagine the culture is quite at the stage where people have the luxury of shopping online or purchasing content. We take for granted that our food, water, house, lawnmower etc, are forgone conclusions. Thus, much of our purchasing, which in turn fuels jobs, is spent on frivilous things like access to porn sites, movies, etc. Remember the crash? That was about people thinking other people would be buying into a new cultural economy. CISCO comes to mind for fueling this hype (I still havn't puchased bon-bons from a quaint european candy shoppe chain). Companies placed their bets, but it didn't quite work out. So what's the payoff with AfricaNet? Who's the end consumer that gets the money going through the pipeline? I think you'd be left with a big FO link, and tons (not all! I'm not saying all!) people standing around either not wanting it or not understanding how it fits into their culture.
I can tell you EXACTLY why misguided efforts like these are bad:
Companies are salivating at the mouth for new consumer bases. The internet would give them unprecendented new access to consumers. The WTO would be pulled in MANY times so companies could exploit the relative weakness of the african economies and cultures to fuel a one way 'import-only' trend into these countries, which at the end of the day will realize they're networks are really only the 20th century version of a dog leash. Western companies are ALL about access to foreign markets. Whatever humanitarian benifits that come out of education and access to information will be obliterated by the greediness of companies to exploit these new markets, turning african countries into just another economy-on-the-westernized-leash.
As for those who took pot-shots at the violence, desease and conditions in africa, ya got alotta nerve. Many will claim that the current conditions are a direct result of outside influences meddling with a once-self-contained culture.
"Old man yells at systemd"
First of all, not freakin' much, because they don't HAVE much. Maybe under a grand (US$) per month. But believe me, that's luxury pay for the area. You would have an entire house, fenced and probably manually guarded, most likely a live-in servant or two, and probably a nice land rover. Plus domestic vacations would be inanely cheap once you learned the language and the local bartering/haggling proceedures.
Of course maybe you wouldn't learn any of that, because you make yourself sound tremendously ignorant in that comment. ebola is primarily found in remote areas and you're almost certain not to get it. I won't even discuss the best ways to avoid aids. You take prophylactic malaria medication; that's one more thing the natives have to struggle with but which you can remain blissfully ignorant of. The "insane" governments, which are being suffocated by equal parts corruption and IMF debt, can generally be bought off if you really have a problem with them. And there aren't really "rebel factions" within 200 miles of nairobi.
So all around, it would be a pretty great opportunity for a geek to have a great time relatively safely, as long as you dig swimming in the indian ocean and seeing lions in their natural habitat instead of stocking up a fat paycheck. So maybe YOU shouldn't go, but I had a great time.
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And lemme say, these comments about "Africa really needs water/food/health care before the Internet" are way off mark. Yes, all those things are necessary, but you must realize that in some cases, particularly with food and water, it's a matter of distribution, not lack of production, and the fact that the economy is largely subjugated by corrupt governments and international treaties which relegate them to commodity-production only. Which is a famously unstable way to make a living.
Moreover, an educated, informed populace is a great way to get around these obstacles. And wiring up the universities and teaching people software engineering is actually a GREAT step. No one's saying "to hell with food, we want you to be our new cheap code monkeys!" A lot of people are genuinely interested in helping African countries recover from poverty.
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Oh hell yes they can afford!
If they can't come up with the cash to pay you, I'm sure the World Bank or IMF would be willing to put a third-world nation $100 Billion further in debt (that number is so large because we have to account for politician's bribes.) As long as every person above you is getting a cut off the top (larger than yours, of course) they could care less what you're doing there, I'm sure.
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Linux: The world's best text-adventure game.
dumb laws. ok, here we go. if a squatter is on a piece of land living for 24hours, you may not remove them. if a squatter camp is off your farm land, and they come ON YOUR PROPERTY to use YOUR WATER, you can not deny them this basic right. there are two right there...oh, how about black children being on medical aid from the governement until age 6 but no aid is for white children
i wouldnt suggest anyone that i know of going to africa to work. i was just in south africa and the entire government is just completely whacked. they make all these dumb laws, then change them any time they want. people think africa (speaking of south africa) has changed for the better since 1994, but it has only gotten worse. If you go there, make sure you get the bulletproof cars, have AMERICAN guards watch your house, etc. It isnt worth the stress in my opinion. some other places in africa may be different, but south africa is rough
I was actually thinking about this a few weeks ago. I got the idea in my head that I might want to join the peace corp, but when I did some research, it seemed like all they were doing was teaching people how to build lakes and fish more efficiently. Not that they arn't useful skills, but it's not where my strength lies. I would jump at the chance to go and help with computer related endevors. Perhaps the Peace Corp could work this out? I'd love the experience.
Check out my sysadmin blog!
I've read a number of comments here, talking about how that we should be focusing on basic necessities in Africa, like clean water, etc. I agree that we should do that, but also access to the amount of information available on the internet is a very powerful way to educate people on the world they live in. They could, perhaps read some research on new farming techniques that helps crops survive droughts.
Also consider the amount of jobs that could be created maintaining this type of infrastructure, jobs that could progress the continent from subsistance farming, to a technological peer with the United States and Europe.
One of the basic notions of free trade is that of comparative advantage, which simply states that if barriers to trade do not exist then it is mutally beneficial for nations to produce goods at the level which they are maximizing thier allocative efficiency. In plain old English, that simply means that each country will specialize and produce in the areas which they are better at. This also has the pleasent side effect of tieing nations closer together, making war less likley. Just look at what free trade has done for Europe since the last World War, you don't see Germans killing the French or vice versa.
If devloping African nations can produce level quality software cheaper than us, let them. I personally wouldn't mind bieng able to get Photoshop or Dreamweaver for ten bucks as opposed to a couple hundred. Sure we can all go and make free software as many of the people on the board would argue, but then again working for free isn't exactly better then working for a bowl of rice a day is it? Besides can you imagine the increase in the standard of living that would result from cheaper computers and software. We saw in the 70s how cheaper Japanese electronics and cars helped more people buy TVs and better cars.
Competition is good, isn't that one of the unanimous verdicts on Slashdot. It doesn't matter whether it's a bunch of geeks concocting a free OS because they aren't happy with what the corporations of America have to offer or another country bieng able to out produce us, competition will always result in cheaper better products. If sub-Saharan Africa can produce computer hardware and software better then us for a bowl of rice, let them.
The sun beams down on a brand new day, No more welfare tax to pay, Unsightly slums gone up in flashing light...
Or, you could just move to the U.S.
Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
I just happened to be going through my "where are they now" file and checked out BlowTheDotOutYourAss.com. Their last update, dated 10 months ago, had these great photos:
http://www.blowthedotoutyourass.com/mission_01/afr ica/africa_01.html
(the numbers at the top will help you navigate through the images...)
QAExpress: Solid bug tracking for you. Graphs and reports for your PHB.
Don't call it a comeback
I been here for years
Rockin my peers and puttin suckas in fear
Makin the tears rain down like a MON-soon
Listen to the bass go BOOM
Explosion, overpowerin
Over the competition, I'm towerin
Wreckin shop, when I drop these lyrics that'll
make you call the cops
Don't you dare stare, you betta move
Don't ever compare
Me to the rest that'll all get sliced and diced
Competition's payin the price
I'm gonna knock you out [HUUUH!!!]
Mama said knock you out [HUUUH!!!]
(REPEAT 4X)
Don't u call this a regular jam
I'm gonna rock this land
I'm gonna take this itty bitty world by storm
And I'm just gettin warm
Just like Muhummad Ali they called him Cassius
Watch me bash this beat like a skull
Cuz u know I had beef wit
Why do u riff with me, the maniac psycho
And when I pull out my jammy get ready cuz it might go BLAAAAW, how ya like me now?
The river will not allow
U to get with, Mr. Smith, dont riff
Listen to my gear shift
I'm blastin, outlastin
Kinda like Shaft, so u could say I'm shaftin
Old English filled my mind
And I came up with a funky rhyme
I'm gonna knock you out [HUUUH!!!]
Mama said knock you out [HUUUH!!!]
(REPEAT 4X)
Breakdown!!!
Shadow boxin when I heard you on the radio
[HUUUH!!!]
I just don't know
What made you forget that I was raw?
But now I got a new tour
I'm goin insane, startin the hurricane, releasin pain
Lettin you know that you can't gain, I maintain
Unless ya say my name
Rippin, killin
Diggin and drillin a hole
Pass the Ol' Gold
I'm gonna knock you out [HUUUH!!!]
Mama said knock you out [HUUUH!!!]
(REPEAT 4X)
Shotgun blasts are heard
When I rip and kill, at WILL
The man of the hour, tower of power, I'll devour
I'm gonna tie you up and let you understand
that I'm not your average man
when I got a jammy in my hand
DAAAAAM!!!!! Oooooohh!!
Listen to the way I slaaaaay, your crew
Damage [UHH] damage [UHH] damage [UHH] damage
Destruction, terror, and mayhem
Pass me a sissy so suckas I'll slay him
Farmers [What!!!] Farmers [What!!!]
I'm ready [we're ready!!!]
I think I'm gonna bomb a town [get down!!]
Don't u neva, eva, pull my lever
Cuz I explode
And my nine is easy to load
I gotta thank God
Cuz he gave me the strength to rock
HARD!! knock you out, mama said knock you out
You've got to be fucking kidding me.
"Africa Needs Net Access, NOW!"
Let me show my unimaginably endless ignorance here, but doesn't africa need to nail down things like "shitting and drinking in separate places" and "not having civil wars over who's pissant do-nothing government is not running anything--today" before they worry about highspeed net access ?
Seems like all the interesting wildlife there is about extinct, and DeBeers has the relevant natural resources all locked up.
Africa reminds me of a funny newsgroup name I saw once - alt.pave.the.earth
Better words were never spoken.
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
You seem to have totally missed what I said. I agree with you 100% about "humanitarian aid" being less than worthless. The problem with current aid efforts is that they're hand-outs that don't stimulate economic growth. They're not helping Africans to help themselves.
You assume that I'm a leftie, which I'm not. I'm a firm believer in the value of free trade and self-determination, but those things don't exist in Africa. Right now most African nations are struggling under economic and political burdens that are the direct result of predatory exploitation from non-African nations.
But I don't believe that European, Chinese, Russian and American meddling in Africa over the past 200 years gives us the right to simply wash our hands and say "oh, gee, we screwed up before, we should just let them do their own thing now."
That's like waging a massive war in Europe then walking away without offering to help clean it up. But wait! We DID help those poor white Europeans after World War II, didn't we? What unsubtle arrogance the helpful Marshall Plan exhibited, by providing western Europe with the means to get on its own two feet.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
But I think the biggest problems to date with IMF and World Bank involvement in Africa have been because the "assistance" is structured in such a top-down manner that as you mention, most of the money never reaches the intended target.
That's why microlending strategies work so well - people can borrow very small quantities of money to kick-start their business and build up the microeconomy. Imagine if private institutions in the United States got imaginative. The VCs who are moaning at the dot-bomb flameout could be reaping large returns on investments in small, admittedly less sexy ventures in African nations, while helping individuals in those countries to build their economies from the roots up.
I don't agree with your assessment of the Marshall Plan, but you must have some reason for thinking it was merely a profiteering venture. If you have some sources for me, I'd be very interested in reading some background on that point of view.
Finally, I agree with you about the Mbundu tribesman. One of the problems intrinsic to discussions about "Africa" is that the continent is tremendously diverse geographically, ethnically, and culturally. Many African people are living in a fashion they find desirable. Obviously they don't need anyone's help.
However, I think that when people in places like Eritrea, Sudan, Angola, and Somalia express the desire to accept fundamental development aid, we should step up and help in a more long term and smarter manner than we have to date.
While the Mbundu tribesman may desire no help at all, the Angolan farmer caught between the government and the rebels might very well welcome some sort of stabilizing influence, rather than the on-and-off superpower meddling that brought people like Savimbi into his life.
When I was in Somalia, I was amazed at how many people were desperate not just for food, but for political and economic stability - the kind we in the western world take for granted.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
Yep, I was in Somalia. The most interesting thing to me about the whole experience was just how different my experience in the Jubba Valley was from that of soldiers who served north of our battallion, and in Mogadishu.
You're right, the place is definitely screwed up, and pretty much everyone is to blame. We set up our company HQ in an old rice farm, which had been built by the Chinese. There was all this old Chinese machinery sitting around rusting, and I even found a couple of 5-year plans in Cyrillic. So obviously the Russians had been there at some point. The Swedes had built a nice bridge over the Jubba, which was then destroyed during the civil war.
In the Jubba Valley, which was populated primarily by farmers, the people seemed really genuinely happy to have us around. When asked how long they thought we'd stay, the common answer was "five years" - which made me realize how accustomed to brief but innefectual outside involvement.
Our approach to helping them get back on their feet was to provide the Somalis with an area secure from roving bandits. We told the locals they could keep their weapons, as long as they kept them in their homes. Anyone with a weapon outside a home would be considered hostile, and we'd confiscate their weapons. In the 2 1/2 months we were in the area, we nabbed around 300 weapons within 5 miles of our HQ.
With the threat of violence severly mitigated, the town marketplace came back to life, people took to the streets again - it was incredible. Then we left and handed over our sector to the Belgians. A few months later, back at Ft. Drum, I remember watching the whole "Blackhawk Down" incident and American reaction to it.
I think our involvement in Somalia was indicative of some larger issues. Americans wanted to help the Somalis as long as it was easy. But there were no smart bombs here, Americans died, the UN elected to get in the business of siding with one clan leader over others. It went from being a PR gesture to an a long-term engagement. Realizing that we'd bitten off more than we were prepared to chew, we bailed.
I suppose much of my attitude about the poorest nations in Africa stems from my time in Somalia. I saw what people could do when given a chance, and it made me think "damn, this nation could be so much diffferent, if average people were given the opportunity to live in peace."
I think we can both agree that to date, outside "help" to African nations has been largely more detrimental than helpful, and that focusing on direct, microeconomic assistance seems to be a promising new direction.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
They don't need the kind of help that the western world primarily gives them, which is just enough assistance to help themselves stay poor. What they need is infrastructure development:
* Viable microeconomic development, so that average entrepreneurs can make a living.
* Eradication of tarrifs from the developed world, which hinder African nations from exporting
* Real education for more than just the elites.
* Fundamental change in the regional politics of Africa, which would allow nations to concentrate on development rather than ethnic and border feuds.
The fact is that Africa's history has put it so far to the back of the pack that even with a concerted effort among European and North American countries to assist African nations in a structured, long-term manner, to talk of "little African kids" working for a bowl of rice and putting us out of work is patently absurd.
There is no "tough call" here. We either help African people climb out of poverty, cyclical famine, and oppressive politics, or all of us will pay the price sooner or later. It's enlightened self-interest for us to help African nations help themselves.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
This has it exactly backwards. In terms of human rights, wiring Africa could help a lot. The non-profit I work for, Benetech, is working on a tool called Martus that helps grassroots human rights groups easily back up their data online and publish information on human rights abuses on the Web (at no cost). Without this kind of tool - and the connectivity needed to use it - a police officer or other minion of an oppressive state can come in, take your computer, and boom - years of meticulously collected data is gone.
"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
The Anti-Blog
A continent that imports 2/3 of it's food needs the kind of net that catches fish. Stay home, make money, give to charities that send people who can and like to do things that will really help. Your contributions to, say Debian, will be felt in Africa too.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
"My mom says there are a lot of black people in Africa"
But on a serious note, it would be nice to see the rest of the world jump onto the information superhighway. It'd be nicer to have the starving suffering people fed first, but hey.... can't win them all.
Well, maybe your wife
Sucks to by you man
The West is unwilling to overcome their self-loathing long enough to admit that critical components of our system are essential to the sorts of freedoms we enjoy. Without those components nothing else matters. IMNSHO (and borrowing from other writers), those components are:
- A system of checks and balances involving courts, legislatures and executives who live and breath life from a formal structure like the Constitution
- Property rights so that individuals and companies can build and keep wealth. This includes the right to own your output and sell it as you wish
- An underlying belief in the scientific method as an ultimate source of knowledge about how the universe works
Without these, no amount of fiber-optic wiring and CyberCafes can bring a region out of tribal poverty. To think otherwise is the worst form of elitist techno-hubris.In the project I participated I was responsible for the webpage and some other computer oriented stuff. I just want to remind you that this is also a way in which you can help. It doesn't need to be infrastructure or humongously big projects. You can add your little share here and there.
Finaly don't judge the entire African continent from what you've seen in one country! It's like havin been to Albania and judging Monaco based on those experiences. Africa is bigger than Europe!..
Cheers...
P.S. The humid air in the Gambia did wonders to the junk that gets stuck on the mouses "scrollers"!!.. .*shrc is
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$HOME is where the
$HOME is where the
-- silver_p
Everytime there is an Africa/Internet related storry a lot of people start screaming "Give Africa food/celan water/medication before tech/Internet/bandwith" and many a good modpoints get wated on those coments. Have you been to Africa? Yes, the countries in that continent are generally poorer but remember that what you see in the news is not the entire picture. When I was living in Bulgaria (before the perestrojka) whenever there was some news report from the US on TV they were filming in some backalley with homless people lying arround drinking liquor from papercovered bottles... When there is a report from Africa in the West it's allways famine, war and catastrophes. Don't you realize that if those were the only things that happened in Africa the continent wouldn last even 5 years? On the streets of Stockholm I see as many beggars/homeless as I saw in Serekunda (the Gambia)!.. Yes, many parts of Africa need all those things but the situation is not the same everywere. Getting access to information on the Internet will also rise the awareness regarding many of those problems and probably even partially help solve them. Developement doesn't need to be made in a linear/serial fashion. So: Africa does need Internet/tech/modern infrastructures!.. .*shrc is
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$HOME is where the
$HOME is where the
-- silver_p
The PHB says "we're outsourcing our production to Elbonia. They right high quality code for a few cents every day." The story ends with the entire QA department quitting to become mimes.
To me it really seems like wireless is ideal for places like africa that don't yet have a real network infrastructure. If instead of running wires they setup an AD-HOC wireless system anyone that could get the hardware could get on the network, and anyone setup to be on it could contribute to the coverage of the network. If each machine connecting to it had the ability to forward and route packets than you would need no wired infrastructure just a bunch of machines with wireless. It would start out small, maybe one location being able to access another, but eventually as sites were added they could have nationwide coverage.
I know not all of the technology needed for this is currently readily available but if people would work toward it and start implementing it i think that it would be an ideal solution.
Why do you assume I'm from the USA?
No, that wasn't a troll, but perhaps I misspoke myself. Okay - after reading the replies I got I guess I should clarify - what I was referring to is the fact that there are few to no human rights laws in African nations - and what is happening with manufacturing industries in Mexico and Indonesia could happen in Africa with code - people turn from being impoverished to being slaves. Yes, something must be done - buts first things first these people need governments that wont sell the populace out to the highest bidder for slave labour, or proclaim holy war against their neighbors. Otherwise, poverty gives way to slavery - the people have something useful to do, but they still live in sht.
I know these countries deserve a break, and need records. However, with the records of human rights and oppressive governments there, wiring Africa could be dooming ourselves. Can you compete with the cost undercutting of an african code sweatshop? We always toot that information is free, and once you get online, even with an old discarded 486 running Arachne, you've got access. This means that, theoretically, anyone with access can become a coder. Even little African kids who'll work for a bowl of rice. Will you work for a bowl of rice? Then why hire you? There's no shipment cost for software, the primary weakness of exporting work to abusive sweatshop countries like indonesia. On the other hand, do we have the right to deny them this tech? To keep them out of this economy? They do deserve their chance to level the playing field.... And its not like they don't deserve a break. Tough call.
You're on the money with that one. Some things that most (all?) countries in sub-Saharan Africa could use:
The Daily Build
Before even warming up to the idea Africa, all of it, needs to stop being the rape-victim of western/asian business interests, and most importantly, Africans just need to develop their own Internet infrastructure sometime after they've uplifted enough to not have to worry about disease, incredibly brutal wars, slavery, and the kind of fundamental problems which completely overshadow something as useless as the Internet to the quality of life for human beings.
Give a people the tools and support to improve their lives and they'll get around to something as useless as an Internet sometime after the majority of people are well-fed, the crime/brigandry/slavery are brought down to acceptable limits, and the religious fundamentalists are warm and fuzzy with the idea of their "everyman" downloading snaps of shaved sluts.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that the demagouges need to shut up, or start promoting a truly unified African nation by helping improve the overall infrastructure of the country rather than pouring monies down an E-rate-esque rathole.
Every new form of media has it's own Requirimento
Connecting impoverished villages stricken by AIDS with T1 lines simply isn't going to have a substantial effect on the common welfare.
This is exactly why the IT world is filled with buggy crappy memory eating bloated slow shit code. Not to mention that this type of attitude (programming is easy anyone can do it: therefore treat your developers like peons) is likely to result in a company losing their best developers. Sure anyone can learn to code.. That doesn't change the fact that one good programmer can often do the work as 10 or more crappy ones. Also not to mention the fact that in addition to taking much longer to produce, the resulting code is probably going to be poorly written and hard to maintain.
This is the same point I'm making "The average home raised corn fed american can't code jack. " This goes for americans or anyone else..
Also, from what I hear, the weather is wonderful, the people are all friendly, the help shit diamonds
Yes, I'm signing up now for a great job!
I demand a million helicopters and a DOLLAR!
Or, for those in Canada, the VSO (Voluntary Service Overseas) has something similar called the Netcorps. They have opportunities in Africa and elsewhere abroad. They are also looking for volunteers.
but when it came time to negotiate salary, it became apparent that they wanted to pay me with a grain, water and banana allowance. When I laughed at them, they tried to persuade me with a sign on bonus consisting of a carved white rhino horn (very lovely and ornate I must admit), and a month long supply of mosquito repellant.
Don't worry about it. You just bombed the interview.
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Give me liberty or give me something of equal or lesser value from your glossy 32-page catalog.
I'm an international development professional. I live in the developing world. I'm a believer in the potential for IT for the developing world, though as with everything else Internet-related it has been way overhyped in the last few years.
IT will not spontaneously feed the hungry or cure the sick, but everyone here knows from their own lives what a uniquely multipurpose tool it is. If people in developing countries can use IT to find and share solutions to their own problems, get the latest information on medical, economic, agricultural, political, and other developments, and smooth over some of the inefficiencies in their economies, then it will be a real tool for development. None of that is unrealistic.
The UN Development Programme, the Markle Foundation, and a consulting firm called Accenture recently put out a report on potential applications for IT in the developing world. It gives real-world examples to support its conclusions. Please give it a look before you contribute yet another comment to the effect that nobody in Africa can type because their hands have been cut off, they have no water, etc. You might not agree with the relentlessly cheerleadery tone of the report -- I'm not sure I do -- but it shows you what people are really proposing to do with the technology.
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Give me liberty or give me something of equal or lesser value from your glossy 32-page catalog.
Coding is not rocket science. Yes, geeks like it and become good at it. The fact is that anyone with an average IQ can learn to code in a few hours...it's really a question of how badly you WANT to be able to code. Just because you've been doing it since you were a kid, doesn't mean that people who are new to it are not going to be able to do it.
If you were talking about a highly skilled position, like that of a brain surgeon, (or other medical doctor) or an animal psychology specialist, or even a mining engineer or actuarial specialist, then I'd say yes - you're right. The average Zulu tribe member is no threat. But coding ? Unless you're talking about extremely low-level stuff (read: assembly), then you're really fooling yourself.Even a medium-level language like C isn't a big deal to learn. I'm not Zulu, but I am from South Africa and know several natives. One of them went to college with me, we graduated in '98. He took a computer course as a minor - he only got his first PC in '98. In '99 he got a position as a Java developer.
It took him about a month to learn Java and start working on their internal management system writing JSP and servelets.It's ridiculous to say that you don't have to worry about non-Americans programming. Sort of like saying: "I have been making tables and chairs since I was a kid, and you know what? I'm not worried about some Zulu being able to make tables and chairs - they'll never get ahead of me." Sure, maybe they won't be as good as you at coding (some of them undoubtedly will, though...don't fool yourself...there are 6 billion people on this planet, and you aren't smarter than all of them...sorry buddy...)...but then, there'd be so much competition on the market, it'd definitely drive the value of skillset down and introduce higher quality of code from those who wished to remain competitive. I'm not a professional developer, but I haven't had any problems picking up C, Python or Perl...and I'm also a Sun certified Java developer. Trust me, teaching the majority of people to program would not be a big deal. Whether they'd be interested in or is a different story, but their ability to do it isn't even in question, at least as far as 80% of the (global) population goes.
Cedric Balthazar Rotherwood
Sun Certified Programmer for the Java Platform +
Cedric Balthazar Rotherwood
Sun Certified Programmer for the Java Platform +
System Admin. for Solaris
Full Internet access, on the other hand, gives access to information, freedom of speech, even international education. They may not be able to ship e-commerce out that way, but full access to the international community is nothing to sneeze at.
Sometimes, you need to pick the frosting you like best first.
I just have to say: What the f**k is wrong with the slashdot crowd? I guess most of the crowd is American, but I always sincerely thought that Americans where better than their reputation (I guess I have to reeavaluate these thoughts).
People considering a) probably never spent a single day outside the comfort of their hometown (or neighbouring town). So what if the standard of living is a bit lower where you get to live in Africa? I mean, I haven't been there myself, but common sense makes me see that there's a bit more to Africa than people living in bungalows and eating each other for dinner.
People considering b) must have their head so thight up their arse that they're only able to consider a direct route from A to B as the only true solution. Get a life. This is the real world. It's not some derivate of a Populus like game where evolution happens to take one specific route. Does anyone actually believe that improvement of, e.g., the net infrastructure does have to occur after other improvements are finished? Does anyone believe that improvement of the net infrstructure is completely orthogonal to othe improvements in the societey, that, e.g., the health sector can not benefit from improvements in the IT sector?
Moreover, anyone taking on a job to build a net infrastructure in Africa (even if their salaries might be lower) will at least be able to help 3rd world countries in a concrete and very useful way. It will probably help more than giving a $10 donation to some random help organization every year. Having someone use their acquired skills to do real, much needed work will usually be way more helpful. In addition, living in another country for some time tend to give you a more unbiased view of the world.
I'd love to see the stats on that one 5 years from now.
Out of 500 geeks that were up to the change:
30 eaten by predators
120 killed due to civil unrest
46 killed while traveling in 60yr old planes
100 in prisons as political POWs
54 Outlaws due to DMCA warrants for their arrest
100 captured and sold as tech slaves
47 stoned to death cause they were confused for a US citizen
1 stayed (no one left to compete for bandwidth!!)
Where do I sign up?!!
LFS. Have you built your system today?
It's not like providing Internet access is mutually exlusive with any of the long term goals you mention. To your list I'd also add "reliable and unfetttered communication". Africa is a big place with lots of natural and political barriers to communication, and until people can communicate effectively you're never going to have an efficient and self-sustaining system. We've already got the greatest communications network in the history of the planet just waiting for them to log on.
And just on general principles, when you have people willing and able to help in their area of expertise it just doesn't make sense to tell them to go away until a social Utiopia springs forth at some indeterminate time in the future.
Sort of like adding the frosting before the chickens laid the egg to send to the supermarket to be bought by you to be added to the ingredients to be baked into a cake, sounds like.
"My apologies, we have no running water, but we can play Quake."
Beware typoes.
Now that being said, if you're not married, get married before you go, because you do *not* want to start a sex-life anywhere in Africa right now...
We all know, of course, the marriage is the sure-fire way to prevent a sex-life.
Beware typoes.
Why would you want to have lots of money? Everything there is dirt-cheap anyway (as in your monthly IT income is more than enough for a year of doing nothing there). And anyways, you're not there for the money, but for the experience.
the indian government used to use labor intensive methods in order to employ the most people. for example, roads were built using hundreds of people and little or no machinery
economists now realise that only perpetuated poverty. how much work can a person do without technology? so how much can you pay them?
when the government first started investing money in the space program and information technology, everyone critisized. how can you spend money on space when a lot of people dont get a proper diet? the answer to this is that no country ever got rich off handouts. but when that money is used to start profitable industries that employ scientists and programmers, well no one is critisizing indias it industry now
the animal doesnt even have opposable thumbs, focker!
clean water, stability of government, debt relief, and most of all: peace all come from infrastucture (including internet access) and profitable industries
you are wrong if you think phones and the internet are luxuries
the animal doesnt even have opposable thumbs, focker!
So I can go somewhere with unstable politics, dirty water, poverty, that sounds like its a huge petri dish for breeding the new most dangerous diseases on the planet PLUS I get to be a walking target because I'm white?
Yummy, this sounds more fun than the dot-coms last year or Y2K coding two years ago!
The obvious corrlary is "Teach a man computer technology and he starves to death trudging through 0:Redundant replies on Slashdot..."
wait a second; back the priorities wagon up! If we dont do something about AIDS over there first, there will be no one left to pay your salary for laying cat5 and setting a few win95 boxes at a cyber cafe.
Dont get me wrong, 3rd world countries can benefit from internet access, but if you were to ask the average person over there what they really want, it sure isnt a mouse and a keyboard and a screen to look at.
This is all fine and dandy, but lets not put the carriage before the horse.
I'd do it, but I heard that the deadly mosquitoes like geek blood.
Damn!
Wish I had mod points.....
***I LIKE PIE***
Remembering that the majority of africans live in what USians would consider 'poverty', ie: substistence living, any given american who goes over to work in a techical position of any sort is going to be living in relative luxury while you get to build computer networks and the like.
Now that being said, if you're not married, get married before you go, because you do *not* want to start a sex-life anywhere in Africa right now...
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
I don't think the point's all that valid.
What most troubled sub-saharan African countries really need is a functioning economy. People who are working together to get rich are far less likely to hack each other to bits just because someone on the radio tells them to.
An efficient economy depends very much on access to information (market prices, technical information, etc.) and on communication (widening the pool of buyers and sellers).
Without this, they get to develop it the hard, tried-and-true way: Over 1000 or more years. Why not give them a leg up?
"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." -- GBS
What africa needs more than internet connection is clean water, stability of government, debt relief, and most of all: peace. This is sort of adding the frosting before baking the cake.
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -- Carl Sagan
The point isn't necessarily to provide Africans with technology but with work, which is in short supply. Also, we want to provide them with a position at a company that isn't corrupt. We want to be a role model of ethical personal and corporate behavior - something that is also in short supply in Africa (much worse than here).
If we offer good jobs with decent pay, they can begin to afford to build the technology. But I don't think technology is the primary ends. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is. In the end, technology may be a part of fulfilling those goals, but of itself it is an empty aspiration.
Different subject: Governments are generally the worst entities to enact reform of any kind. Especially in countries where governments or contragovernments are the problem, it is individuals in leadership that affect change for the better.
Brandon
Actually, food is not the priority in Africa. It is possible to live in Africa without money as long as you have a piece of land and the rains come as predicted. When it doesn't rain then there is famine and food comes to the top of the priority scale. Stop the war in southern Sudan and you will never have to ship food to them. This hapenned to Uganda. During the 15 years of civil war, they had to import food, but now ther is peace and they sort of do batter trade, they give food as payment for what they import.
Basically Africa is experiencing major forms of transformation. Africa is changing culturally economically and technologically. I like to compare it to someone who keeps on moving from town to town, state to state, renting houses, trying to raise a family and spending more money than he is earning along the way. What happens is quite obvious, broke with creditors hanging on his neck, a brocken home or at least, rebellious kids if the wife is still loyal to him. All the wars , famine and poverty we see in Africa today are a complex result of history, mismanagement and cultural demise the likes of Rwanda and Burundi.
This does not mean that there is no hope for Africa. On the contrary.There is hope and alot of potential in Africa, but like I have experienced in Geneva, Switzerland while visiting the UN and WTO everytime someone mentions Africa, people always list the current problems Africa is experiencing, but at the same time no one is offering any practical solutions. Imagine you wanting to write a new programme and you keep on making a list of the details involed in programme instead of generalizing them and tackling them. If I take this analogy in the case of Africa, Problem 1:war; Solution: stop war. And we find that we do not have to send food to the country anymore! Problem 2: Comunication and Transport; Solution: Build the necesarry infrastructure. And again we see the education and world view of the country changing. No more dictators because of democracy and the number of educated work force encourages people to invest in the country!etc
This may sound naive, but I did not hear anyone either in the UN, World Bank, World Trade Organisation or the EU Members mention any "constructive" plan to help Africa tackle it's problems when I was in Geneva. By the way this were guys ment to be dealing with "African Issues" Africa does need the internet just as anyone in America, Europe or Asia. It is a small step, but if you look at it generally it will solve many other problems like; No teachers will have to be sent to any African countries because the lectures from Prof. X can be viewed online. Books do not have to be donated to schools. Information on how to dig a borehole can be found online.etc.
So let us support this cause. It will make a difference!
Every problem has a better solution when you start thinking it differently than the normal way.[Steve Wozniak]
You haven't been reading any British newspapers in the past months or so? If you had, then you would have noticed the huge scandal the british goverment had, involving diamonds, arms and Sankoh. Sankoh delivers the diamonds, Britain delivers the arms and training personell (merceneries). Crank up google and read about it!
By the way Sierra Leone is not Senegal just as Germany is not Finnland!Africa is a continent!
Every problem has a better solution when you start thinking it differently than the normal way.[Steve Wozniak]
Man, in your comment you took the concept of "xenophobia" to an entirely different level. You really did. I sincerely hope you're just trolling and don't really believe in what you wrote because if you do I pity you and your primitive self centered existance.
Your pizza just the way you ought to have it.
Personally I'd rather if African governments concentrated on building the foundations of law and democracy on their soil and eradicating the rampant corruption and crime that sweeps the continent. They need to address issues like fighting famine and building roads infrastructure before they can shift to building IT/telecoms. That's my opinion anyway.
Your pizza just the way you ought to have it.
Africa has food. What it needs are politicians who understand and agree with Adam Smith. (Then again, so does Massechusetts.)
The Independent: Reverend Spooner Arrested in Friar Tuck Incident - ISIHAC, Historical Headlines
http://www.geekcorps.org.
Whatever useful help we can get in Africa, be it food, shelter, clothing, medicine, the Internet, or justice, whatever act of love that can be exercised in the interest of the less fortunate or the marginalized all over the world, will always be considered worthy and appreciated.
I guess what I was think of was a more specialized version to appeal more to techies. I can't see most techies wanting to deal with water systems and modern accounting and the like (although I'm sure there are some that will).
www.lucernesys.comHorizon: Calendar-based personal finance
With this crowd getting politically active and motivated, and the job market shrinking, maybe this is the right time?
www.lucernesys.comHorizon: Calendar-based personal finance
--
Scientists restrict study to entire physical universe; creationist
Considering that I'm still trying to finish this Engineering/CompSci degree, there's time to take a couple of second(third/fourth) language classes and try something like this. The argument was that how many people over in North America/Europe/Austraila/NZ/etc. have the technical skills coupled with a knowledge of the local languages?
The majority of the world is NOT connected to any sort of half-decent online services (if any) and in the next few years I can see a lot more of this sort of "go overseas and help set up infrastructure" thing happening as governments begin bringing in professionals to get their services running.
Don't know how widely accepted this is, but I for one am going to hit this opening in the tech sector hard. Travel a couple years, get my P.Eng, and then move back to Canada with experience, cash, a couple of languages, and the travel bug potentially out of my system for a while. (Not to mention the weather!) Now just to get into that Mandarin class. . . . . .
- Relativistic? That's barely Newtonian!
I can just see sally struthers now.
Adopt a geek for pennies a day!
In all serious it could be quite a growing experience, even a safari of sorts. I'd go.
"With scarce resources available for very basic development needs, such as water and sanitation, education, food security, income generation, many people wonder why bother to provide these new technologies, and whether they are not unnecessary luxuries in many contexts. It is not an 'either-or' scenario anymore, as these technologies are nothing more than advanced information tools to be used if/when it is beneficial. Among a poor farmer's first priorities is to get sufficient food for his family; perhaps ICTs can help him find better prices for his produce, enabling him to buy more (and higher quality) food. People from development countries are best placed to know when and whether ICTs are appropriate for them. Much will depend on the value they attach to information. Hardly anyone will question the value of basic education. Yet reading and writing are, at their core, skills to access and produce information. The issue of ICTs and the digital divide is ultimately about greater choices, as is human development." United Nations Information Technology Service UNITeS. Placing ICT volunteers in developing countries, including Africa -- and making a difference!
J Cravens http://www.coyotecommunications.com
I'm all ready to run down to the motherland and build a digital infrastructure for rich minorities and dictactors.
That way all the African 1337 can send emails to the rest of the world requesting help fighting real problems like AIDS instead of just sending snail mail and footage of poor dying children.
I guess there's just too many young aspiring diamond cutters in their private school system.
feints within feints, wheels within wheels
it would be nice to see the rest of the world jump onto the information superhighway. It'd be nicer to have the starving suffering people fed first, but hey.... can't win them all.
What would prevent different people from working on both problems at the same time?
In what way would helping people get online aggravate the poverty and hunger in Africa?
Similarly, geeks think that help comes in the form of computers. And it gives them the warm fuzzy satisfaction of believing they're doing something important without actually having to do messy stuff like building water supply systems, trying to build democratic institutions, and feeding the starving.
If you want to help Africa, sell the computing skills you intend to donate and send the money to people who have something worthwhile to contribute. Same goes with the inner city...
P.S. I wish I could take credit for the name of the phenomenon noted in the subject, but it belongs to Paulina Borsook
That is all.
Lets say I was to go to Africa, put up with e-bola, aids, malaria, violence, insane governments, and rebel factions; what would they pay me. I mean, come on, it would have to be a pretty large number if they wanna lure geeks over there, can they afford it?
"We had gay burglars the other night. They broke in and rearranged the furniture." -Robin Williams
While this is probably a good idea, I have my doubts about the financial returns of web-enabling Africa. The few countries that can afford high-tech projects are somewhat unstable, while the remainder have much more pressing needs than internet connectivity (you know, famine, disease, war, death ...). Perhaps if we train them here to bootstrap themselves to the 21st century, we might see better return on the project.
On another note, I am surprised and dismayed at the amount of juvenile bigotry present in the previous posts. While Africa certainly has a metric assload of problems, they certainly do not rate the vituperation and calumny I am seeing here today.
Jeez.
Its good to see that less developed countries are starting to gain better internet connections and, if anything, is a chance to lay down a good communications infrastructure learning from more developed countries experimentation. Also the article states there are links to a few other countries (India, Malaysia) further strengthening the global data infrastructure. Yay!
What the hell? A high speed, fiber connection in a 3rd world continent that can't decide who it wants to run it's countries? Rubbish. What the hell are people doing wiring some desert plain when people right here in the US (Rural PA in my case) are still fighting to get beyond 56K? We've been waiting for months for broadband, and we still can't get a straight answer as to when! WHAT ABOUT US?!? Once we get ourselves wired, then we can worry about the Sahara.
Blog Prophyts - Right On, Man
This is very sad indeed. It saddens me to see that this attitude still prevails. Crime is a reality the world over, as is corruption, it's just that other countries have had longer to learn to hide theirs. As for geeks in South Africa - well, there is no shortage, let me tell you. Things are a happenin', and we'll see great things from SA before too long. Just give us a chance. Or don't. Either way, we'll prevail.