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Two Handfuls Of Handhelds
rgarcia writes: "CNET has this story: Panasonic announced on Monday its first handheld computer, the Toughbook 01, which is designed to complement its notebook line of the same name. The consumer electronics maker has been selling into a niche in the notebook market by focusing on durable laptops that can withstand the shock of a fall and can resist moisture, dust and scratches. I know Ive dropped a few in my day. Damn things are fragile. Cool design, though I dont know if its actually better." And an unnamed reader points out that DALinux now has hardware available: "They claim it is Palm compatible, but it won't run palm apps - so what 'Palm compatible' means is anyone's guess. But it is a cool gadget, it runs Linux, and, most importantly, it is affordable." "Palm compatible" better at least mean painless address-book import.
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"Palm compatible", in this case, means "sue me! sue me harder!"
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From the pictures of the PowerPlay III PDA (claims to be "Palm IIIxe Compatible") it looks like maybe it's compatible in that it looks the same.
Seriously though, it looks like they've created a very small embedded OS based on the Linux Kernel, and written apps that are approximately similar to those available on the Palm. It also looks like they're the same processor and hardware design, so it's quite probably Palm-OS compatible - they're just running their own OS instead.
There are Screen Shots available for apps that look remarkably like the screens on my Handspring running PalmOS.
It's compatible with the Palm on your hand, not the Palm on NASDAQ.
Well, that's not at all Palm Compatible, but I am assuming that they mean it can sync with stuff that is written to sync with palm software.
The consumer electronics maker has been selling into a niche in the notebook market by focusing on durable laptops that can withstand the shock of a fall and can resist moisture, dust and scratches.
It's about time!. The lesson of Palm OS was that the functionality of an Apple ][ was enough for most people. A simple spreadsheet, messaging system, contacts and a notepad are a lot of what makes a computer useful. Bundle that in a low overhead package and make it durable and you've got a winner - what mobile professionals don't need is 300Mhz of super high color whiz-bang screen saver action that can dance along to their portable MP3 collection.
The value of a robust and simple computing platform over a feature-clogged overpriced china shop of a notebook has been obvious to me for a while. Thank goodness industry is getting the picture.
I found a review of the Palm clone... It seems decent, but not any more. If some of the apps get better, it might work for the vast majority of Palm users who need only a datebook & never install any extra apps (& therefore want it cheap).
I'm a bomb regardless
My guess -- if it fits in your hands, its 'palm compatible.'
Hell, I'm eating with my new 'palm compatible' spoon right now!
Untill I can write on it as fast as I can on paper, untill I can trust it not to fail as much as paper (including being dropped), and the price point is more reasonably, I really don't see how I can justify the price of any PDA... Sure, checking flights wirelessly is cool, but I can do it on the cell phone for far less money now.
Well, perhaps it's similar to Agenda Computings VR3 that I own. It's palm compatible in the sense that I can send stuff easily back and forth using IR.
Coding:
I hope that it just 'looks' like palmOS, because PalmOS is way harder to code for than my VR3. but it'd be nice to run palm apps.
Pandora
here is yet another sign of the time, the Matsushita/Panasonic's of the world, don't jump into markets unless their market intelligence tells them there's real money to be made there...the overhead of these MegaCorps is so high, "niche" markets are just too expensive for them to play around in...
SO, the handheld market has just rec'd a ***BIG*** validation as to its future prominence and viabliity.....
OTOH, PALMOS just got ***ANOTHER*** kick in the butt, i've been alternating between my Vx and my iPaq lately and WinCE has come a long way...(yes, CE took the same type of hit, but CE is only a fractional market player at this point, 12 mos from now?????)
ANOTHER MARKET INDICATOR; just how about those Panasonic desktop PC's and Windows Notebooks, eh?
seems like Panasonic has placed its bet...and PalmOS and WinCE were nowhere to be found....
if anyone takes on Wintel, it will be the Global 100 Megacorps...Panasonic, NEC, NTT, et al...and it will be in a space like handhelds were this is no dominant giant already there???
with Linux here and quickly evoling as a mid-range platform, ANYBODY'S paid-per-license OS is IMHO, over the mid-to-long term a "wasting asset" in mid-range enterprise computing (the desktop PC is a ho' 'nother story)......
Ten quid, she's so easy to blind. And not a word is spoken...
Given that spending literally about twenty seconds on the website revealed that their OS runs on a Palm (see http://www.linuxda.com/store/index.html), I think it's a reasonable assumption that you can also upload (albeit with shady legal reprecussions) the Palm OS onto their system. Thus, their handheld is Palm-compatible in the same way that my FreeBSD box is Windows-compatible: the hardware is identical.
From my limited experience (mostly playing with pagers at comp-usa), keyboards like this are incredibly annoying to use. Maybe I just have really stubby fingers, or bad aim (if using a stylus/pencil) but I find myself frequently pushing the wrong key, or multiple keys. Not to mention the extra time all that attempting to type on those things uses.
Does anyone have a device with a keyboard like this and actually find it useful?
It has a Motorola Dragonball processor, so it looks like "Palm compatible" means same CPU. My iPaq uses Flash ROM just like my CD burner so I guess they are compatible with each other. If anyone can tell me how to burn CD's on my iPaq I'd really appreciate it.
I've dropped my IIIxe a total of 12 times, from 1 foot to 15 feet (scaling a fence :)). Its gone into "self destruct" mode (cover flies off, batteries fly everwhere, battery cover takes a long trip), but no permament damage (screen is still fine, no cracks). I would call that rugged.
Well, someone is clearly not an obsessive PDA geek.
Being one myself, however, I'd wager both of my shoes that "PalmIIIxe-compatible" means the body of the device works with III/VII-series peripherals (PalmPix, PPK(ooh), maybe even the various palm robots). Presumably, then, there is also the same kind of serial port. I think this is an excellent move on the manufacturer's part.
I'd like to note also that in my far from humble opinion, the IIIxe remains the best PalmOS device made by Palm.
Karma: T-rexcellent.
Research in Motion's Blackberry (950 and 957) are designed to never break. I throw mine against the wall all the time to show people (who all think I'm insane) and they don't have a scratch.
You have got to be kidding
This is why nerds cant pick up in public...
that's php-Nuke ... which is, in and of itself, a violation of the GPL, as the "author" stole most of the code from a gpl set of scripts called thatware
Mooniacs for iOS and Android
The LinuxDA's Palm compatability refers to hardware, not software. I assume that means you can use Palm accessories such as those cool folding keyboards.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
I really don't understand Panasonic's stance on selling these handhelds to consumers. Why would it cost them any more to allow consumers to buy this thing (not that I want a $1k PDA) Is that the only reason? The fast that no reasonable consumer (and I know we have some of the unreasonable kind here on slashdot) would pay that price when palms, handsprings, etc sell for so much less and are fairly close to being just as durable?
Agenda VR3: 16MB Flash, 8MB RAM, MMU $249.00
Agenda has an active developer community, so the software is actively getting better pretty quickly. Does the PowerPlay have any developer program?
I want more RAM and/or flash for my Agenda, the PowerPlay has much less. So the PowerPlay III isn't going to fill the same niche as my Agenda. But the PowerPlay website says the Flash is expandable, but gives no details.
I'd like a durable, small, low power embeddable Linux device with a display. Can you connect the PowerPlay to your network and also use some other I/O ports? The Agenda is pretty I/O limited, it also doesn't have a spot for external power (cut a dowel into fake AAA batteries ...).
Of course, I'm a little hesitant to push that point so much. Sounds far too much like not-so-distant claims from Microsoft that if a whitebox shop didn't pay for a Windows license, they were obviously intending to pirate Microsoft products.
I got a chance to play with a ToughBook at work, CEO has one (it's good to be the king =). Its kinda chunky, supposedely you can stand on top of it when it is closed. The touchpad feels a little low res. Pretty quick though. And it had a CDPD modem with antenna built in, kinda slick.
My iPaq holds up ok. From what I've seen the screens get scratched quite a bit. I made screen covers cheap using templates from PocketPCPassion.com and some transparencies from the supply closet (gross misuse of company resources? better post anonymously!).
I can put windows 95 on my pII and my pentium 166, but I can't put windows 2000 on my pentium 166.
If A implies B, that does not imply that B implies A.
Wheeeee
It's obvious to me - and maybe it's been said but not properly moderated. The compatibility is of a physical nature. That is to say, the unit will fit into a wallet made for the palm IIIxe, or a belt clip for the palm IIIxe, etc.
Being an owner of a palm IIIxe, and spending much too long searching for a good case, made me somewhat close to this fact, so it is actually a good selling point to know that there are cases out there to protect and tote yer handheld in. (although the one pictured is... ugh... seems rather unusable)
cyn, free software and *nix operating systems enthusiast.
But if you paid $2000 for a laptop, or $300 for a PDA, wouldn't you take care of the damn thing? I know shit happens, but if it costs 2 large, some, "extra precautions" would probably be in order. . .
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I'd venture to guess that they have bought the guts of the Palm IIIxe's and put their own plastics around it. Doesn't it say it's Palm IIIxe compatible? They should have said "hardware compatible" so people here wouldn't freik out.
Looks like there are a few sane ones hanging here.
;/
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
...means that their OS will run on a Palm. From their website:
"We are proud to announce the introduction of our Linux DA O/S v1.0 DB for Motorola Dragonball CPU platform..."
However, apps written for Palm won't run on their PDA anymore than Windows apps will run on a Linux PC.
If the design of the software is to the same standard as the website - annoying popup windows and horrible flashing messages - it is not going to be much use!
Anyway they don't ship to the UK so that counts me out.
"I deny nothing, but doubt everything." Lord Byron
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Hell, I'm eating with my new 'palm compatible' spoon right now!
No, no no. Didn't your parents show you? You are not supposed to eat with your spoon in the palm of your hand. That requires that you grip it with a fist. You're supposed to hold it just in the fingers with the handle resting in the groove between your index and middle finger and the thumb firmly anchoring it against the index finger.
Sorry. Couldn't resist. I know. I'll get modded down into oblivion.
GreyPoopon
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Why is it I can write insightful comments but can't come up with a clever signature?
Ordered one yesterday. Delivery time from the site was 2-3 weeks.
I agree with you, but also remember that any device you wear or carry around with you constantly needs to be much more rugged than most of today's devices are. The laptop needs to be more rugged than a desktop, but since it's usually in a pretty well padded case, it doesn't need to be nearly as rugged as a cell phone. People take them everywhere they go, and expect them to be able to handle a fall once in a while. The same should be true for PDAs. If they are advertised as "pocket sized" or wearable, people will take that to heart.
GreyPoopon
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Why is it I can write insightful comments but can't come up with a clever signature?
Those Symbol Palm based barcode machines are pretty damn tough. But here I have a hard time seeing the value in a $1000 PDA except for the most specialized industrial or military/law enforcement preprogrammed purposes. Sure all that 'throw it off the roof and run it over with the patrol car' shit is neat-o and I'd love a waterproof, shockproof EMP resistant that can operate in subzero temp survive a three story fall and a battery leak but a thousand bucks ??????
Holy bulletproof little black book Batman !!!
Hey look - they have an 'arm' clock. That sounds cool. They should put in an analog clock also though.
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
Any luck on a p100 48 mb RAM yet?
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
I just threw mine against the wall to try it out (and I didn't even throw it that hard) and now it has a crack on the top corner of the screen!
Karma: NaN
I have Win2K on a 400MHz system and it really is nothing special. With a good SCSI disk subsystem, Win2K might be okay on an old computer, but I wouldn't have high expectations for it.
Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
"Panasonic will be using Microsoft's Windows CE 3.0, not Pocket PC."
They're bringing out a new device with an old OS. Not too bright.
That means it will fit in your palm with little modification.
AC's cheerfully ignored
Sure, but things happen. I had a Visor (palmOS) that fell to the concrete while I was snapping the cover back on. I had been running and my hands were too sweaty. That didn't happen to break it, but it could have. Same one a year later I did manage to break. I had it out to turn off an alarm. I didn't put it back on the coffee table, but left it on the floor instead. The dog came over with a toy and we played a while, and I managed to put my knee on it. Oops, $80 to repair the screen.
Oh, that doesn't count the time I fell in a hot tub, but I didn't happen to have the PDA on me, just the cell phone...
If you have the thing with you every day for a large part of the day, it is going to be in a tad bit of danger now and again. It is nice if they are either rugged enough to handle it, or cheap enough to fix/replace when they do get killed.
Plus, I would love a supper rugged laptop, I could take it into the hot tub and read (photography) news while working out the day's stress (I wouldn't want to read the other kind of news...it increases stress).
Check out AbiWord.
I flashed my Palm IIIxe over the weekend with the demo version of LinuxDA. And it sucks.
The user interface is horrid. Very cumbersome, very unnatural. The selecting of drop-down items is very un-palm-like. The applications have a certain level of lameness. They need to fix all of these things.
I also emailed the development guys over at LinuxDA and asked them if they supported a shell environment, telnet, ethernet, TCP/IP, ftp, http... etc.
Guess what...?
He said the didn't have it right now. None of it. However, they told me that they are working on a release that has all of the major TCP/IP protocols as well as an ethernet stack, and possibly a compiler. And yes, a shell also.
So my observation is this: LinuxDA sucks right now. The only real benefits to Linux are its stability, and the ability to 'tweak it how you want'.
With LinuxDA, you get neither. You basically get a "Palm-like" device that is cumbersome to use at best... with no ability to tweak it or do any kind of networking.
I'm running 2K Advanced Server on a P166 with 80 MB RAM; it's not terribly fast, but it works.
on the ILlinois State Police's transition to a wireless solution in their cars. They're all using Panasonic Toughbooks. Unfortunately, the current online issue is last month's, so Oct. won't be out for a little while. (But in any case it's a great magazine. If you want to stay on top of how companies are using cutting edge products in real world situations they have some great writeups.)
Have fun: Join D.N.A. (National Dyslexics Association)
Yesterday I dropped my unprotected first generation iBook onto concrete. I did not grip it as well as I should have and it slipped from my grasp, dropping about 3-4 feet and landing rather abruptly, with a disturbing crash, onto the concrete sidewalk. It had been in sleep mode. When I picked it up and opened the case it woke up and worked just fine, aside from a slight marring on the case. Durability is good.
--- What?