Does this new kernel include the latest snapshot of ext3?
Ext3 is both distributed in the kernel and as a separate package, and I'm a bit lost : what ext3 code should we use for more reliability? Should the previous kernel be patched with the latest ext3? Does the new kernel include it? Does the latest ext3 cleanly applies to Linux 2.4.13?
Right now ext3 is not in the official kernel but it is in Alan Cox's which is also synched to the latest version, of course you can patch the official to use ext3 with patches from here. They usually lag a couple of days behind for a patch to be available for the latest kernels , but a cvs snapshot should work fine if you can't wait that long for them to release an official patch.
--
*shrug*
Re:ext3
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 1, Informative
ext3 is _not_ in the -linus kernel.
It is in the -ac patches, and just got updated,
so you can use that.
The ext3 patch should not be used, and may not apply to the current kernel. Dont use the ext3
patch unless the ext3 page states it is for
your kernel version. (or use the -ac patch which have ext3)
Chances are that ext3 soon goes into the kernel
though.
I was able to patch the latest EXT3 patch (one built against 2.4.13-pre6 - ext3-2.4-0.9.13-2413p6.gz was the filename) with only one hunk failure - and that was easily integrated manually. The kernel compiled just fine and I haven't seen any problems thus far (knock on wood).
While I enjoy using the AC kernels, it kinda bugs me that there are quite a few "reversions" within the AC tree. If there were only a simple way to pull out specific changes and patch them in.
-- $ man woman * -bash:/usr/bin/man: Argument list too long
AC kernels are more or less sync'd, however I've noted that recently they revert some of the Linus changes (i.e. VM, etc) - so in a sense, using the AC tree is only getting some of the new. Is this done for compatability reasons with the extra "features" or are they just paranoid?
It's almost better if you want all of the new to find the individual patches and patch the Linus tree - that way you get the new features without killing the old.
-- $ man woman * -bash:/usr/bin/man: Argument list too long
Apply the patch. Note the single hunk failure. Look at the saved file created by the patch program, and note that a single line is to be inserted, noted by the + sign. Note the surrounding lines of text within the failure file, and locate the same (or similar) lines of text within the original file in a text editor (such as vi). I simply inserted the one line to be patched manually in the same spot as it appeared in the failed hunk relative to the surrounding text in the newer code. I don't remember specifically the line, but it had to do with JFS.
The patch fails because between pre6 and the final 2.4.13, an additional line of code was added to the file, throwing off the patch program.
Sorry that I can't be more specific, but it really isn't that hard.
-- $ man woman * -bash:/usr/bin/man: Argument list too long
There have been quite a few kernel releases in the past week or two as well as some high-profile bugs. Is the kernel just going through a natural rough-spot or is something different going on?
Doesn't everyone know? Linus is recovering from alcholism. He just started the 12 step program. This week has been really hard for Linus because Alan Cox keeps talking about "putting away a few pints at the pub" (he is English) on the linux kernal mailing list. There have been a few flame wars too between the people working on the vm subsystem. Apparently one is a tea-totler and the other a hard core drinker so Linus is leaning towards using the tea-totler's code but Alan says the hard core drinkers code is better...
I think we all need to try to support Linus and Alan without choosing sides. Just grab the latest kernel of your choice and compile away... Try not to mention free beer on the linux kernel mailing list in the next couple weeks. Think free tea or something similar.
Re:Release Often?
by
Barry+Wilkes
·
· Score: 3, Funny
Alan Cox keeps talking about "putting away a few pints at the pub" (he is English) on the linux kernal mailing list.
Well, I guess that proves Alan doesn't read slashdot. He is Welsh. BIG difference. Especially when it comes to things like Rugby.
And then of course you have the brand new religious flamewar over which color the fire will be when either the Rik or "Arch Angel" VM crashes your server..... my vote is for MS blue;)
-- AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
"If MS Windows had updates this often, you Linux zealot hypocrits would flame them for being unstable."
They do, internally. It's just that OSS developement takes place in full public view, w/o a multi-billion dollar public relations screen to mask the blood & gore.
Where Linux has 2.2.17, Windows has NT4 build 1654, SP6a or whatever it is.
Just seemed like yesterday that 2.4.11 was out. I guess I missed 2.4.12. Kudos to the team for pounding out new code like this.
On a related note, does anyone know if any type of development on 2.5.x or (shall I say...) 3.0 is being done? Just seems that right around this time with 2.2 the 2.3 kernels were cranking up. In any event, keep 'em coming!!
Linus is planning on handing 2.4 over to Alan Cox and starting on the 2.5 branch pretty soon... Maybe 2.4.14? Who knows though...
ChangeLog
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 2, Troll
final:
- page write-out throttling
- Pete Zaitcev: ymfpci sound driver update (make Civ:CTP happy with it)
- Alan Cox: i2o sync-up
- Andrea Arcangeli: revert broken x86 smp_call_function patch
- me: handle VM write load more gracefully. Merge parts of -aa VM
pre6:
- Stephen Rothwell: APM idle time handling fixes, docbook update, cleanup
- Jeff Garzik: network driver updates
- Greg KH: USB updates
- Al Viro: UFS update, binfmt_misc rewrite.
- Andreas Dilger:/dev/random fixes
- David Miller: network/sparc updates
pre4:
- Al Viro: mnt_list init
- Jeff Garzik: network driver update (license tags, tulip driver)
- David Miller: sparc, net updates
- Ben Collins: firewire update
- Gerd Knorr: btaudio/bttv update
- Tim Hockin: MD cleanups
- Greg KH, Petko Manolov: USB updates
- Leonard Zubkoff: DAC960 driver update
pre3:
- Jens Axboe: clean up duplicate unused request list
- Jeff Mahoney: reiserfs endianness finishing touches
- Hugh Dickins: some further swapoff fixes and cleanups
- prepare-for-Alan: move drivers/i2o into drivers/message/i2o
- Leonard Zubkoff: 2TB disk device fixes
- Paul Schroeder: mwave config enable
- Urban Widmark: fix via-rhine double free..
- Tom Rini: PPC fixes
- NIIBE Yutaka: SuperH update
pre2:
- Alan Cox: more merging
- Ben Fennema: UDF module license
- Jeff Mahoney: reiserfs endian safeness
- Chris Mason: reiserfs O_SYNC/fsync performance improvements
- Jean Tourrilhes: wireless extension update
- Joerg Reuter: AX.25 updates
- David Miller: 64-bit DMA interfaces
pre1:
- Trond Myklebust: deadlock checking in lockd server
- Tim Waugh: fix up parport wrong #define
- Christoph Hellwig: i2c update, ext2 cleanup
- Al Viro: fix partition handling sanity check.
- Trond Myklebust: make NFS use SLAB_NOFS, and not play games with PF_MEMALLOC
- Ben Fennema: UDF update
- Alan Cox: continued merging
- Chris Mason: get/proc buffer memory sizes right after buf-in-page-cache
Interesting!
On the week end I will set up a stress test for the VM to see if I am able
to get some failure. Just I need a little of time, since I am at SMAU for
the magazine I write for (by the way, inside of the press room there is
a very very pretty bar girl:) ).
mmm, I should immagine some good test case...
I discovered something important for the test results I've
been reporting. The mp3's that I've been listening to were
not all sampled at the same rate. That means some of the
comparisons are suspect.
The mp3's were sampled between 88k and 192k. I did not notice
the sample rate affecting whether an mp3 skips or not.
I.E. an 88k mp3 and a 192k mp3 skip about the same on a
kernel/test that sputters. There probably is a difference,
but it isn't obvious. So the subjective reports on sound quality
are reasonable. In the future, I'll make sure comparisons that
include timing are done with comparable mp3's.
Whoops. Forgot an important one.
by
jawad
·
· Score: 2, Funny
Whoops. Forgot an important one...
Prediction lists (and their addendums)...
Re:Whoops. Forgot an important one.
by
gowen
·
· Score: 3, Funny
Prediction lists (and their addendums).
Don't forget
Grammar flames (and their addenda)
-- Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
Re:Whoops. Forgot an important one.
by
__soup_dragon__
·
· Score: 1
man you should be a comediant:-D
-- soup, the dragon.
dna.h:include "std_disclaimer.h"/* god */
Security fixes
by
sting3r
·
· Score: 5, Informative
What they didn't mention were a few interesting security fixes from bugs in 2.4.12, probably due to the self-imposed DMCA "gag order." Since I am not in the US, I will take the liberty of posting them here:
Changing some I2O settings now requires the CAP_NET_ADMIN privilege. Previously any user could alter these settings and possible cause a DoS (lock up the box or lock up the I2O bus).
A race condition in the inode cache was repaired. This would allow stale inode data to be used (under the right circumstances), most likely only on SMP systems.
Several potential vulnerabilities involving ptrace() have been closed, preventing a few kernel-based local root exploits.
Bugs in the USB code which could have been leveraged to obtain direct hardware access have been fixed. These bugs may have resulted in local root exploits if security-critical hardware (such as hard drives) was on the USB bus.
What they didn't mention were a few interesting security fixes from bugs in 2.4.12, probably due to the self-imposed DMCA "gag order."
Actually, it is more likely that Linus just didn't bother to write everything down. His changelogs are usually very brief (but then, he didn't used to write them at all a while ago!)
He does mention updates to I2O and USB subsystems (just not what they were), and the "Alan Cox: more merging" entry can contain almost anything;-)
Jeez, some of those security holes are downright embarrassing. Especially since this kernel is "mature" and the holes allow root compromise and DoS attacks.
I'd fix it quietly too and claim the DMCA was the reason.;);)
-- Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
What they didn't mention were a few interesting security fixes from bugs in 2.4.12, probably due to the self-imposed DMCA "gag order." Since I am not in the US, I will take the liberty of posting them here:
Wow, talk about waving the red flag in front of the bull!
You, my friend, must have balls the size of tank bearings. My hat is off to you!
How the **** do you apply the patches? I've never had a single problem so far. My typical patch-procedure:
cd linux-2.4.12
bzcat../patches/patch-2.4.13.bz2 | patch -p1
cd..
mv linux-2.4.12 linux-2.4.13
Should take care of everything.
Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay....
by
sheol
·
· Score: 1
well...the past 2 releases had bugs... How do we know this one doesn't? I think I will hold off on installing until it's been tested without problem. The previous 2 releases( 2.4.11 and 2.4.12 ) haven't done much for my opnion of the quality control process as of late....
Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay....
by
tao
·
· Score: 1
Oh my! The last two releases had bugs?! Gasp!
If you expect software to be totally bugfree, expect no software more advanced than hello world, and even then, greatly delayed by rigorous QA...
Seriously though, v2.4.11 was a disaster, and Linus noticed and thus released v2.4.12 as soon as he could, which IHMO was a smart move. Because of this rushed release, a few small details wasn't 100% merged (parport springs to mind), but v2.4.12 is mostly working.
Still, if you don't participate in the in between kernel QA yourself (by using the pre-patches), don't complain. Linux is made by volunteers, who do it in their spare time. Contribute instead of complaining!
Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay....
by
maxpublic
·
· Score: 1
Uh, that's what you're *supposed* to do unles you want to help with the beta-testing process. You *never ever* use a kernel less than six months old in a working environment. The release is done so that all of us geeks who like trying the new kernel out can, forwarding bug reports as we find them.
Remember, in Linux all beta-testing is *public*. If you don't want to beta test, just wait six months for a kernel to stabilize.
Max
-- My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay....
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 1, Insightful
I think I will hold off on installing until it's been tested without problem.
A Linus release is not like a normal commercial software release. If it compiles on Linus' box, he releases it without a formal test process.
Use a RedHat kernel, which goes through a QA and stress process and contains patches which haven't made it into the main branch (often for trival reasons such as coding style or that Linus can't read all of his mail).
Not to recommend RH specifically, just that their QA process seems to be the most robust. SuSE or Debian would probably also be good.
Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay....
by
bfree
·
· Score: 2
I would have to agree that you are better off running a stock distribution kernel IF your stock distribution kernel supports what you want, but if you are going to recompile the kernel in any way you are breaking the QA experience. Once you compile any kernel yourself you could be introducing issues and the only way to be sure to be sure is to then test your own kernel before implementing it in a mission critical setting. I personally have always found that the debian kernels are very good becuase they usually spend months in unstable and testing where users run them as is AND compile there own kernels for whatever crazy hardware or software config they need. RH (and as you did, I am just choosing them as an easy example) is not an open company, and their kernels are not tested in such a wide way (debian gets a good run at multiple platforms straight away) and their users are not as "powerful" as debian users (sweeping generalisation that I would say is fair, the % of debian users running self-compiled kernels must be higher than the same % for RH). I think it would be brilliant if we could get all linux distributors (from embedded to RH to Linus) to publish information on the kernels they use and test in one place so that anyone who needs to compile their own kernel can view the experiences of the most relevant people/kernels/settings and get a good idea of the issues they might experience with different setups.
--
Never underestimate the dark side of the Source
Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay....
by
Wild+Wizard
·
· Score: 1
So my linux router running 2.4.4 with an uptime of 122 days in another 2 months will become stable.
Perhaps i will assume that english is not your first language so i will point it out to you
> just wait six months for a kernel to stabilize
It wont change on its own you know
Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay....
by
chefren
·
· Score: 1
*Every* release of Linux has bugs. It's just a matter of which bugs apply to you. Check the Changelog - if there are updates to the subsystems you are using, upgrade. If not, wait.
Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay....
by
leviramsey
·
· Score: 1
Not to recommend RH specifically, just that their QA process seems to be the most robust. SuSE or Debian would probably also be good.
I seem to remember that one of Debian's strong points was the fact that its kernel packages were the stock Linus source, though.
Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay....
by
buglord
·
· Score: 1
all you need to do is copy the.config file of their kernel and load it. No big problem there.
-- --
sigs are like parking spaces - all the good ones are occupied
Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay....
by
bfree
·
· Score: 2
yep, but if you make ANY change to the kernel you are no longer covered by their QA. The inclusion or exclusion of any part could lead to unpredicatable behaviour even in the components that were already there. They test exact kernels, any change means that while it might be more likely to be good thanks to their QA, you can no longer accept their QA as they didn;t test what you are doing (did they even compile it with the same compiler, asm tools etc.). I'm not saying that this is a bad thing or criticising or anything, I'm just saying that if you are caring about reliability you must be aware of all the variables you introduce (what sort of stress testing did they do on your motherboards chipset let alone changing software)
--
Never underestimate the dark side of the Source
Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay....
by
maxpublic
·
· Score: 1
Can you actually read English? I said 'use the last stable kernel which is at least six months, not one just out of development'. Try parsing my message next time.
Max
-- My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay....
by
he-sk
·
· Score: 1
I seem to remember that one of Debian's strong points was the fact that its kernel packages were the stock Linus source, though.
Debian's stock kernel have been patched. At least in slink, I remember that the Debian kernel (image and source) included patches (Big memory area, I think, and others). This makes sense, a couple of Debian packages contain patches for the upstream sources and the new deb_helper infrastructure makes this extremely easy, too.
-- Free Manning, jail Obama.
Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay....
by
Wild+Wizard
·
· Score: 1
Quoting complete sentence full stop to full stop
> If you don't want to beta test, just wait six months for a kernel to stabilize.
Looks like Linus AGAIN didn't bother to check in the joystick fix. It's been broken since 2.4.10. Vojtech Pavlik had a fix ready before 2.4.11, but Linus is sitting on stuff, as usual. Here's Vojtech's patch, if you're having analog gamepad problems. It's probably going to wrap awful in this stupid text box, so try to piece it back together.
Oh jeeze, stupid slashdot says there's too many junk characters. You're going to have to manually make these changes, then I guess, since it won't take the diff format.
in linux/drivers/char/joystick/analog.c
change
#define GET_TIME(x) do { if (TSC_PRESENT) rdtscl(x); else outb(0, 0x43); x = inb(0x40); x |= inb(0x40) speed > 10000 ? "M" : "k", (port->loop * 1000000) / port->speed);
to all of this
port->speed > 10000 ? "M" : "k",
port->speed > 10000 ? (port->loop * 1000) / (port->speed / 1000) : (port->loop * 1000000) / port->speed); }
No, as Linus has explained time and time again on the list, he does not "sit" on stuff. If a submitted patch hasn't gone into the next two or three pre-patches, it's because he's dropped it, either due to too much e-mail (the most common reason), missing/bad description of what it does (second most common) or bad/unwanted code (not too common.)
So, most presumably, Vojtech submitted the patch, but didn't resubmit it when Linus didn't react. Or, he submitted it to Alan only. And since Linus doesn't forward patches to Linus unless explicitly asked to if the subsystem has a maintainer, the patch probably got stuck there.
He submited it to Linus before 2.4.11, and after 2.4.12. The hell are you supposed to do, mail it to him every hour in case he just decides to rm/var/spool/mail/linus? Fuck, and I thought people were exagerating when they said how screwed up Linux's development model was. I think it's time to copy the BSDs.
I was excited reading the kernel changelog until I got to this line:
- Trond Myklebust: make NFS use SLAB_NOFS, and not play games with PF_MEMALLOC
I'm sure NFS won't mind using SLAB_NOFS, but it's cruel to prohibit it from playing games with PF_MEMALLOC. NFS has reached the point where playing games with PF_MEMALLOC is the sole respite from the drudgery of its mundane life. None of the other protocols will play with it since the Trivial Pursuit incident of 1998, and it's banned from EQ for excessive Britishing.
Sure, we've all been inconvenienced a little now and again when NFS is playing games with PF_MEMALLOC, but it wasn't that bad, and it brought a glimmer of joy into NFS's otherwise bleak existence. Now NFS will be forced to sit alone in its room playing X Bill all alone until it goes mad and starts initializing remote filesystems at random.
Then where will we be?
Trond Myklebust, I hope you're happy with yourself. What did NFS ever do to you? It's just cruel, and we'll all have to deal with the consequences when people start running NFS on 2.4.13. You should be ashamed.
*telekon
--
To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion.
print "Looks like Linux X.Y.ZZ is out. You can get it at the usual place (kernel.org) and the mirrors. Check out the Changelog."
if(CmdrTaco just upgraded to ZZ-1 ||
weekday=tuesday) {
print "This is lame."
} else {
print "Grab. Test. Enjoy"
}
}
-- Thomas S. Iversen
Re:ptrace vulnerability fixed?
by
sting3r
·
· Score: 2, Redundant
They have not stated it because of DMCA concerns (see my other post) but it has been fixed. Take a look at the patch around line 17253 (ptrace.c) to see what they did.
Patches are simple! If you are using the linus tree see the other reply. If you are using the -ac (alan cox) tree than grab the incremental patches from bzimage.org. To apply the patch go to/usr/src/linux (instead of/usr/src like with the linux patches) and patch away...
If you had provided an example of your pains with patching you would have got a much more detailed reply from somebody. Thoughts to ponder...
final:
. ..
- me: handle VM write load more gracefully. Merge parts of -aa VM
Isn't that how the latest VM mess started?
The good news is that Linus seems ready to hand 2.4.x over to Alan. From the latest Kernel Traffic Linus was quoted as saying:
. . .
He replied to himself shortly thereafter after noticing more breakage, adding, "On the other hand, the good news is that I'll open 2.5.x RSN, just because Alan is so much better at maintaining things;)"
It seems that Linus is going to do the same thing that he did with the 2.2.x kernels, make a mess out of them (especially VM), have a few back-to-back releases, then hand the whole thing over to Alan.
-- Go not unto/. for advice, for you will be told both yea and nay (but have nothing to do with the question)
Re:Merging parts of VM patch?
by
snowlight
·
· Score: 1
Have some respect. He can code better than you or I or anybody here ever dreamed of. And do you know why? Because instead of wasting time on/. he is coding. I know it's hard to fathom, but not everyone wastes their time posting on trolldot.
--
"The urge to destroy is a creative urge." -- Michael Bakunin
Re:Merging parts of VM patch?
by
tiny69
·
· Score: 1
I didn't say Linus was a bad coder. I'm just implying something that he admits to, he's a poor maintainer. The stable kernel series is suppose to be that, stable. It's not some place where you make radical VM changes. Linus should hand the 2.4.x kernels over to someone else so that he can do what he's best at, development.
Linus may well be one of the better coders in the world (I'm certainly no judge of that), but I don't think he has the patience to maintain anything. He's creative, he want's to go somewhere with Linux, some call him a visionary. Someone like that needs to use their creative energies, they need to develop something. The slow drudgery that maintaining (bug fixing) a project requires is not him.
-- Go not unto/. for advice, for you will be told both yea and nay (but have nothing to do with the question)
Re:Merging parts of VM patch?
by
snowlight
·
· Score: 1
My bad - my brain is having problems comprehending today.
--
"The urge to destroy is a creative urge." -- Michael Bakunin
Which releases are production stable?
by
S.+Invicta
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
I must say that I am getting a little bit leary about using the 2.4.x series in production. The fast releases don't inspire confidence. On one hand people (perhaps rightfully so) say don't use a kernel that is newer than 6 mo. old or you are a beta tester. But of course those older kernels were once bleeding new as well...how to know which to use and which to avoid? That 6 mo. old one might be the right age and yet perfectly horrible. Perhaps what is needed is a kernel stability/security chart that shows how well different kernel versions have "aged". Anyone know of such a beast?
Re:Which releases are production stable?
by
Builder
·
· Score: 3, Funny
FreeBSD (http://www.freebsd.org/)
Re:Which releases are production stable?
by
keepper
·
· Score: 1
I second the above post...:-D
Re:Which releases are production stable?
by
1%warren
·
· Score: 1
I must say that I am getting a little bit leary about using the 2.4.x series in production.
Then use the latest in the stable tree. By definition, this is the one handed over to the stable kernel maintainer (Alan Cox). At the moment it's the 2.2.x series. When Linus decides 2.4.x is "production" ready, he'll hand it over to Alan & open 2.5.x (unless he decides to call it "Linux YQ" or something:)).
--
Full plate and packing steel! -Minsc
Re:Which releases are production stable?
by
Anthony+Boyd
·
· Score: 2
The fast releases don't inspire confidence.
Linus used to release new kernels daily. In fact, it was part of the foundation for The Cathedral And The Bazaar. It's a feature, not a bug. 8^)
Re:Which releases are production stable?
by
oconnorcjo
·
· Score: 3, Informative
I must say that I am getting a little bit leary about using the 2.4.x series in production. The fast releases don't inspire confidence. On one hand people (perhaps rightfully so) say don't use a kernel that is newer than 6 mo. old or you are a beta tester.
For a production enviroment, I would get a Red Hat or SUSE (or any other large distributor's) kernel and just use that. They are heavily tested and heavily used kernels.
I for one would not upgrade to 2.4 on a serious production server yet unless thier is something 2.2 is missing that you need.
-- I miss the Karma Whores.
Re:Which releases are production stable?
by
GigsVT
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
This is not the way it's "supposed" to be. It might be true, but don't present it that way. Even versioned kernels are SUPPOSED to be stable. All of them. Patchlevel kernel revisions on the even number trees are not supposed to be anything but bugfixes.
-- I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
Re:Which releases are production stable?
by
ajs
·
· Score: 4, Insightful
If you're grabbing the kernel-o-the-week, I suggest you're always going to be "less than production quality". Vendors like Red Hat, SuSe, Mandrake, etc. spend a whole lot of time integrating new kernel releases with their operating systems. This can include bug-fixing, testing on a number of hardware platforms, retro-fitting patches from development versions that are required for certain business segments and even beta periods for certain cutting-edge features (e.g. Red Hat's long trails internally and externally of the ext3 filesystem).
You should probably think of the stable kernels as just that: stable. That doesn't mean they are ready for prime-time. It's more like a "stable branch". You expect this to be the branch from which the distributions will craft The Right Kernel for their platforms.
Should you use such a kernel, then? Yes, but only if a) you're in a non-mission-critical situation or b) you "must have" a certain bug-fix and are willing to put in the Q/A yourself.
Think of the linux kernel as released on kernel.org like Mozilla. This is like a milestone release. Netscape will come out with something based on it which has Java, Flash, some back-ported bug fixes from later nightlies, etc. The corporate user should probably wait and go with a Netscape release, but here I am submitting this comment from a nightly;-)
Re:Which releases are production stable?
by
Cro+Magnon
·
· Score: 1
If I were running Linux at work, I'd use the 2.2.19 kernel, unless there was a specific reason to use 2.4. I'd be especially wary of 2.4.10 and higher. Of course, on my home PC I just installed 2.4.13-pre6(just before 2.4.13 released apparently)
-- Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
Re:Which releases are production stable?
by
Spoke
·
· Score: 1
Lots of good comments here, and I'll throw in my 2c and experience with them:
The entire 2.4 series is called stable. Whether or not that is actually true for you is a different story.
For every stable kernel, there is someone out there where something doesn't work quite right in it and that person will call it unstable.
If you want a highly tested kernel, don't use Linus' or Alan's kernel, instead use a kernel from a distribution such as Redhat, Debian, Suse or Mandrake. Linus' kernel is stable for Linus, Alan's kernel is stable for Alan, and each distribution's kernel is stable for them.
Linus's and Alan's kernels receive less testing than a distributions kernel, so unless their kernel's have some feature or bugfix that you can't live without, stick with a distribution's kernel.
Of course, if you just want to be l33t and say that you're running the latest kernel 2.4.45-ac32, go ahead. Just don't cry if it doesn't work on your setup and workload.
Re:Which releases are production stable?
by
G27+Radio
·
· Score: 2
This is not the way it's "supposed" to be. It might be true, but don't present it that way. Even versioned kernels are SUPPOSED to be stable. All of them. Patchlevel kernel revisions on the even number trees are not supposed to be anything but bugfixes.
I think people need to realize that brand new kernels are like software 'release candidates'. In the case of Linux kernels they are made available to everyone for testing therefore they get somewhat widely tested. When [Debian|RedHat|SuSE] determine that a kernel is ready for prime-time they incorporate the kernel into their distribution and/or release it as an upgrade. These kernels should be though of as 'final realeases.'
As always, even with final releases of ANY software, there is no guarantee of 'buglessness.' <g> You really never know how software is going to react in your own environment until you actually test it.
It's really unreasonable for people to expect any kind of guarantee of stability from software that was realeased in the last 24 hours and hasn't been widely tested.
Re:Which releases are production stable?
by
Spencerian
·
· Score: 2, Funny
Mac OS X 10.1.
Aw, hell, even Darwin sounds better than the holy hell that a Linux kernel update can bring. The current yelling in here makes me wonder if the yellers should just blow up their PCs and use an abacus.
But then, they would be back, complaining that they can't use their DVD or joysticks with their abacus, and want the latest abacus kernel...
/./././.
-- Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
Re:Which releases are production stable?
by
JoeBuck
·
· Score: 2
If Linus shipped the kernel, it's not production.
If Alan did, and it doesn't have an -ac after it, it's production.
Re:Which releases are production stable?
by
Dwonis
·
· Score: 2
Does *BSD have stateful packet filtering (i.e. connection tracking)? iptables is the main thing that keeps me with Linux (and Linux 2.4).
Gotta love Cable Modems and bzip2!
by
Codifex+Maximus
·
· Score: 1, Offtopic
Downloaded the linux-2.4.13.tar.bz2 file in less than 50 seconds @ around 300kb/sec. Wow!
-- Codifex Maximus ~
In search of... a shorter sig.
Re:Gotta love Cable Modems and bzip2!
by
odaiwai
·
· Score: 1, Offtopic
Do you have Tourette's disease or something?
dave
Re:Gotta love Cable Modems and bzip2!
by
snowlight
·
· Score: 1
I don't get it. Explain?
--
"The urge to destroy is a creative urge." -- Michael Bakunin
Re:Gotta love Cable Modems and bzip2!
by
goingware
·
· Score: 2
Tourette's syndrome gives the sufferrer the uncontrollable urge to curse. The illness is not a joke, it's a serious neurological illness, and can have lasting unfortunate consequences on the sufferrer's ability to be accepted by others.
I've read a few of your responses and I must say you've got a pretty negative attitude. Is that really the impression you mean to give us?
Re:Gotta love Cable Modems and bzip2!
by
JabberWokky
·
· Score: 2
Tourette's syndrome gives the sufferrer the uncontrollable urge to curse. The illness is not a joke, it's a serious neurological illness, and can have lasting unfortunate consequences on the sufferrer's ability to be accepted by others.
It's a nice sentiment, but only a small portion of people with Tourette's curse. For most people, it causes them to repeat actions several times, or to touch things near them repeatedly.
I knew a guy in college with Tourette's - he generally never told anyone because they then kept expecting him to launch a blue streak, or simply didn't believe him. He had a heck of a time using a mouse; everytime he was done, he kept grabbing it, and had to make an effort to quit and go back to the keyboard. Kinda like physical stuttering.
--
Evan
-- "$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
Re:Gotta love Cable Modems and bzip2!
by
odaiwai
·
· Score: 2
Yeah, I'll explain. You can't seem to express yourself without personal abuse and swearing. I wondered if you had some medical condition which made you subject to uncontrollable impulses but it appears you're just like that anyway.
I'm glad, though, because it looks as if, on your first postings to slashdot, you karma has been chopped down to minus a lot.
yours very sincerely,
dave.
ps. I know I'll lose karma for this, I lost it for my first comment, but someone has to inform the lusers what they're doing wrong.
"2.4.13 contains a highly severe filesystem bug, please upgrade to 2.4.14"
:-)
-- ... sometimes I fly with the white swan to my Liffey
home.
Alan's branch
by
BlowCat
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
SlashDot seems to pay more attention
to the Linus' branch, but if you really
want to be on the edge, you should
track the Alan's branch (i.e. the "ac"
series). The branches are synchronized
with each other from
time to time, but if you want to fix some
problem, check the code in the AC branch -
it may have the fix already.
That's especially true for the sound
drivers.
As for stability, the Linus' releases
don't seem to be formally tested anyway.
Maybe Linus is more conservative in
applying patches before the release,
but the recent events (2.4.11 and 2.4.12)
show that the kernel may not compile
in a common configuration and
be released notwithstanding.
Re:Linux Rocks
by
Billly+Gates
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
A little offtopic but quit correct. It turns out Bill Gates went even further and stated "..you need to look at other peoples code and improve upon it..". Hmmm Kind of sounds like un-american opensource doesn't it?
Re:CVS
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 1, Informative
That's a silly way of doing it. What if you fuck up your patched tree? Then you have to untar the original and patch and patch and patch. Here's what I'd do:
This lets me have a backup of 2.4.12 just in case.
Linus interview on osnews.com
by
felipeal
·
· Score: 2, Funny
Q.(The kernel) 2.4.13 just came out a few days after the 2.4.12 release, which was a broken one. Aren't you worried about the kernel reputation?
Linus:I couldn't care less.
Q.But that's the second time that happens in 2 weeks (2.4.12 was released just 2 days after 2.4.11). Are you sure there is not a problem with the 2.4 branch?
Linus:See my answer to the previous question.
Re:Linus interview on osnews.com
by
sminra
·
· Score: 1
This is the dumbest post I've seen in - well - days.
"I could care less" means that you COULD care less than you do - meaning you DO care.
"I couldn't care less" means you do NOT care at all, and thus could not care less.
Despite the fact that 2.4.11 is tagged "Don't Use This" it's the only kernel that works for me for Very Very important app - Return To Castle Wolfenstein:) With all other kernels tried I can't connect to multiplayer servers through 56k modem connection. It might be some configuration options that does it but with other kernels it just stays forever in state "Getting game state". Too bad i didn't install that SuSE's patch which stores the active configuration in/proc/config.gz so it could be copied as a basis for the new kernels (Yes I ran make mrproper before applying the 2.4.12 patch so I lost old.config)
-- Microsoft? Is that some kind of a toilet paper?
This particular PC is used only for gaming.. For serious stuff I use 2.2.19. Despite 2.4.11 has a known symlink related bug and I'm using SuSE I'm not affected as the situation which triggers that bug is not going to happen here.. It's more or less related to the installation of the system as the only known case which is affected is when SuSE's yast is installing new/dev nodes.
Other reason for using of this kernel is the fact that it's the first one for me which doesn't lockup completely with NVidias drivers.
-- Microsoft? Is that some kind of a toilet paper?
What bothers me is not the frequency of releases..
by
felipeal
·
· Score: 1
...but its criteria:
2.4.12 was released just 2 days after 2.4.11 to fix a bug that happens in a particular situation that happily nobody uses.
Then 2.4.12 had a bug that broke the parport module, which unhappilly affects almost everyone who compiles a kernel, and a release to fix that bug took almost 2 weeks!
IANAQAE (I am not a QA expert), but that doesn't sound good to me...
Tips for Testing and Those New to Kernels
by
goingware
·
· Score: 5, Informative
If you are new to installing your own kernel, or you want to get started on kernel programming, see http://www.kernelnewbies.org/ and join them on IRC in #kernelnewbies on the Open Projects Network.
If you'd like to program or debug the kernel, I recommend a couple of books:
Kernel Projects for Linux by Gary Nutt, ISBN 0-201-61243-7 - this is a lab manual with hands-on kernel programming projects that address a variety of kernel components
Understanding the Linux Kernel by Bovet, Cassetti, and Oram, ISBN 0596000022 - I bought a number of kernel programming books, and this seemed to be the best written of the books that covered recent kernels. It's mainly 2.2, with short addenda in each chapter for the changes that were expected at the time of writing for 2.4
... not to mention the endianness console fixes.
With these you no longer get garbage on your screen in VGA text mode if you're using a big-endian (e.g. PPC or PA-RISC) box with a VGA adapter.
I agree with you that the quality of/. is decreasing steadily, when you can't even post patches! My god! Well, that is commercial stuff for you. Anyways thank you for the attempt to use this miserable forum, here is a link to the kernel list archive and the post with the patch.
I just wish that some day I will see a working Linux bttv driver. For some reason, I always drop WAY too many frames with every Linux video capture program I use. (MainActor has been best so far - it only drops a few frames, almost gets perfect video quality, almost keeps A&V in sync and almost saves in format that can be read to Virtualdub in Windows, or any other Win32 editing app).
I need to use Windows programs to do video captures, which technically isn't nice either because the driver really doesn't work perfectly there either - it either works perfectly or not at all, depending on the phase of the moon.
Better multimedia support is always nice. One day, I will be able to use Linux for everything. =)
>> For some reason, I always drop WAY too many frames with every Linux video capture program I use.
I think it isn't bttv problem. For a very long time there simply wasn't any good capture program for Linux, now there is. You can try NVrec or ffmpeg . It is possible to capture 320x240 25 fps movie on K6-2 333 (with NVrec). Good luck!
I was using a Windows98 program to capture video (the one that came with my Hauppauge).
I forgot the thing running (and didn't set a size limit). I *think* it tried to write a file bigger than 2G and crashed the machine. I *THINK*, because it wrecked all information on the HD; I COULD NOT EVEN BOOT THE LINUX PARTITION!!!
I only use the bttv driver under Linux since then (for quite a long time; when I started, I still had to change the bttv source to make it understand PAL-M).
It works quite well (Mainactor or xawtv); I just can't use the v4l module on XFree86 4.1.0 since it does not support PAL-M (tried a CVS one that did, but grabbing was not good). I capture at 320x240 @ 30fps, MotionJPEG, very few frames dropped (Celeron "514MHz", 384MRAM). About 8GB of my children home videos saved. When hardware-compression boards get cheap, I'll capture them again at a higher res. For now, this is as far as I think my hardware can get.
That was the last thing that required Win at home for me (I still keep a dual boot, so my kids can play educational CDs that only run on Mac/Win).
You may mod this as "Redundant"; I just needed to say something defending bttv. I has been very useful to me, even before this update. Thanks Gerd!
Try playing around with the command line app 'streamer' from the xawtv package. I've recorded full 30 fps for over an hour using the mjpeg support (the video is then editable with the lavtools from http://mjpeg.sourceforge.net or MainActor). The audio and video got slightly out of sync towards the end, but I bet I could knock off a few fps, solve the sync problem and still get really good quality.
Dinivin
PS. I have these nice little scripts that I can launch from a crontab, which will record any channel for however long I specify. If you'd like to take a look, let me know.
Try playing around with the command line app 'streamer' from the xawtv package.
I have tried numerous times, and I'm unable to get more than 15 FPS or something... if I'm lucky. I may be able to get more if I use 5% MJPEG quality or something.
And that syncing thing *is* important...
Well, I need to try the alternatives mentioned in this thread too, maybe *some* of them work =)
Have you tried using the mjpeg codec with streamer? It works much better, IMHO, than all the others. As for the sync issue, it was happening, for me, at 30 fps with 90% quality, which is pretty extreme. I can't access my machine at the moment, but I bet if I drop the 90% to 80% it'll go away (or drop the 30 fps to 25 fps).
Out of curiousity, what's the specs on your computer?
Too late now; this was long ago. I've made a complete reinstallation.
Nevertheless before doing it, I tried to boot from the linux boot floppy, from a Win98 floppy, and from the RH install CD (I had the hopes to at least have the/home partition from the previous install intact). They all booted, but could not see/mount the HD partitions, so I think Win98 did wreck a lot of things:(
Actually, the diffs *are* like CVS. Get every patch that
has a higher number than the kernel you are using to
get to the latest. Note that the Alan Cox series are NOT
incremental. You only need the latest there.
Re:What bothers me is not the frequency of release
by
nagora
·
· Score: 2
and a release to fix that bug took almost 2 weeks!
Actually, there was a patch out the same day, available from all good kernel mirrors.
TWW
-- "Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
Does anyone know if this kernel supports R or R/W the W2K style NTFS filesystem? Or if it's slated to be supported eventually? Figure this might come in handy now that MS is pushing XP so hard. Thanks!
From kernel config for NTFS read support:
NTFS is the file system of Microsoft Windows NT. Say Y if you want to get read access to files on NTFS partitions...see Documentation/filesystems/ntfs.txt....
Now for write support it's a different story, NTFS write support is marked DANGEROUS, from config help:
If you say Y here, you will (maybe) be able to write to NTFS file systems as well as read from them. The read-write support in NTFS is far from being complete and is not well tested. If you say Y here, back up your NTFS volume first, since it will probably get damaged. Also, download the Linux-NTFS project distribution from Sourceforge at and always run theincluded ntfsfix utility after writing to an NTFS partition from Linux to fix some of the damage done by the driver. You should run ntfsfix _after_ unmounting the partition in Linux but _before_ rebooting into Windows. When Windows next boots, chkdsk will be run automatically to fix the remaining damage.
Please note that write support is limited to Windows NT4 and earlier versions.
One thing you have to understand is that those people (maybe just one person mainly) working on NTFS are basically reverse engineering it, so this can be very time consuming and produce only small results for a while. I now that updates to NTFS are seen regularly in the change logs, so it is still being worked on, and according to the kernel documentation it appears that Legato Systems has sponsered Anton Altaparmakov to develop NTFS on Linux since June 2001, so that might help too.
KidA
-- "Karma can only be portioned out by the cosmos." -Homer Simpson
And before you tell me to use patches, let me tell you that I've never gotten a single patch to work. I don't know if they're drunk when they create those patches, but each one of them complains about missing files when I try to apply them.
Obviously you're doing something wrong; maybe you should ask for help with that sort of thing instead of just downloading the 20MB and blaming the kernel developers.
2.4 is viable for production but requires thought
by
FreeUser
·
· Score: 2
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
I must say that I am getting a little bit leary about using the 2.4.x series in production.
I can't say that I blame you (although your reason of "fast releases" not inspiring confidence is IMHO misguided)... some of the 2.4.x kernels have not been good.
I do use 2.4 in production in several environments, but in order to assure you have a stable kernel you need to do more than just dowload the latest and greatest.
Don't run it on a production system day 1. Wait a few days to see if there are any widespread complaints (they come in quickly if they exist), then test it for a week or two on a development/test system before putting it into a production environment.
Use the -ac series rather than the Linus tree. I use both (some machines use xfs, which won't patch against -ac kernels and therefor requires the Linus tree, but everywhere else I stick to Alan Cox's fork), but have found Alan Cox's kernels to be more stable (and more feature rich) on the whole than the Linus tree. YMMV, and if you follow the procedure outlined above either should be adequate.
If it aint broke, don't fix it. Don't upgrade gratuitously just to have the current revision number displayed in your "uname -a" command.
If it is broke (ie security fixes, such as occurred in 2.4.9 and 2.4.13), then you should upgrade if possible. Of course, if you are unlucky enough to be using a Znyx 4 port (tulip) card like me, you'll be stuck running 2.4.3 until the bugs in the driver get fixed (maybe in 2.4.13?), so upgrading even for security purposes isn't always an option. This sort of cock-up is very rare, but, as in this case, it can happen with some drivers.
I too have been irritated with some of the overreaching changes in a kernel series that is supposed to be stable (2.0 and 2.2. were very solid, some 2.4 kernels can be used in critical environments, but others cannot), but have found the above mentioned precuations/practices sufficient to avoid getting burned by the unstable releases which have appeared from time to time (eg 2.4.11), and 2.4 does
have a number of features that make it very, very useful in many production situations.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
you call that lazy? i have a cron script that uses rsync to mirror the v2.4 source from kernel.org a few times a day... so when i see a new kernel announcement, i just patch from my local mirror (where, invariably, it has already been downloaded) and recompile.
this might get +1 funny, but i assure you, it is not a joke.
That's an okay hint, but why not try this? I've been doing it since the early 2.2 kernels:
Put all your patches (.gz or.bz2) in/usr/src (or wherever your linux source is)
from/usr/src, type linux/scripts/patch-kernel
... The script will churn away, patching up to whatever latest patch you have...
now enter the linux/ directory and run make oldconfig
that will run through the current.config and prompt you for any new config items
now the standard make dep clean bzImage modules modules_install is in order.
From there, I copy arch/i386/boot/bzImage/bzImage.[kernelver] and update lilo.
I find this is the cleanest and fastest way to patch a kernel. The patch-kernel script will stop if it runs into trouble and you can try to fix it. Be sure to remove any.rej and.orig files before rerunning the patch-kernel script or it will think there's still trouble.
Re:Predictions [OT]
by
sracer9
·
· Score: 4, Funny
Shoot - might as well go for the gusto:
chmod +x/dev/random
/dev/random
Yep. That ought to do it. Hey, why is windows booting?!?
Oh, altough it is true that downloading every 2 weeks a new kernel might be (is) bandwidth consumming, nevertheless why someone should upgrade it's kernel every 2 *** weeks?!?
Let's be realistic, the changes made from one version to another are very precise, read the change log first, and then decide if you are really using that really cool stuff they are upgrading!
vcr with the Indeo 5.0 codec. vcr for me drops about 1 frame in 2000 - not as good as it should be, but acceptable. And the resulting files are VirtualDub readable, which is good - I haven't found any better way to cut commercials and merge multiple AVI files in Linux.
There's a nice symbiosis there, because the Windows bttv driver generally bluescreens on me within the first minute or two of recording. I don't know what I'd do if I wasn't dual booting.
If you have lm_sensors and i2c 2.6.1, you need to do a "make clean" and a "make depend" in those source trees (after building kernel 2.4.13) to deal with an apparent change in a kernel file name. Other than that those packages work fine with the new kernel (so far...).
It's probably wise to do that every time, but I've been able to get away with "make clean all install" until now.
kernel pre-emption patch
by
DGolden
·
· Score: 5, Informative
If you're on a desktop machine, try the kernel pre-emption patch - it's nice, and will make everything feel more responsive and smooth, since in addition to the normal user-space pre-emptive multitasking, the patch allows a lot of kernel calls to be pre-empted.
Even if you don't want to use the patch, you might want to try renicing X negatively to make it feel a bit snappier.
-- Choice of masters is not freedom.
Re:kernel pre-emption patch
by
be-fan
·
· Score: 2
Does it help?
-- A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Well, firstly... should the kernel developers change the whole system so it's slightly more convenient for you?
Secondly... I dunno what your problem with patches is.. but I've been patching for about 9 years, and had very few problems; and those problems are usually due to some foreign patch I applied previously.
And why do you upgrade your kernel every week? That's rediculous. There is no need for it. There are plenty of stable kernels out there you can use.
Hi! I read the discussions on each kernel release, and I wonder what I'm missing. I'm using 2.4.12 and ReiserFS, but everything is stable. All of my files are intact. I can compile the kernel while listening to 160kb/s mp3 files, and they do not skip, even in KDE. My production machine has yet to swap, let alone swap to death. This is just as boring as the 2.0.36 kernel that powered my production server for a year. The same went for 2.4.5 and 2.4.9.
I somehow feel like less of a Slashdotter because I'm not having troubles. How can I get in on the action?
Is the kernel just going through a natural rough-spot or is something different going on?
Well, Linus is really good about pursuing groundgreaking new technologies and trying to add them to the kernel. He is not so good at attaining rock-solid stability...
Alan Cox is the other way, though. Now that Linus is working on the 2.5 series, we can expect:
1: Fewer bugs
2: Fewer new features.
Did you not read my post? I said I was lazy, which would kind of make it unlikely that I would do that...
-- Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Re:Making friends in the Australian outback
by
TBBle
·
· Score: 1
Huh?
I don't understand how this is either relevant to the Linux Kernel 2.4.13, nor how you came to the conclusion that people in the Australian Outback talk like that.
The nvidia drivers are a kernel module and an X library driver, not a kernel patch.
Slightly OT, but what would be handy for people like me who can't code worth shit are utilities like mkpatch.pl in the lm_sensors package that make a custom patch for whatever your current kernel source is.
2.4.12 last week, 2.4.13 this week! Woohoo! Time to compile another one for the workstations and servers! Gotta love Linux, wouldn't see this from Microsoft, ever!
The old prophet predicted this!
"When the leaning tower shadows the dark circle,
and there will be two and double and sixfold plus one, and the few will be glad, and the many will bitch, and the others will pay too much for crap, be unafraid, for the VM is near."
Well, first of all, I've as of yet never fucked up my tree (but I do start from scratch every 10-15 th kernel, just to get rid of any removed files, since patch doesn't remove empty files), and second, it only takes me a couple of minutes to download a complete kernel, untar it and apply any patches onto it... And soon (at the end of this year), when GigaSunet is finished, the download will be even faster. Yummie.
The only source I'm really careful not to mess up is the v2.0.40-sourcetree, mainly because noone else has it:-)
Since I've upgraded to 2.4.13 I've weird problems with my Soundblaster Live. It seems whatever programs use the sound seem to do so fine most of the time, but the rest of the time corrupt crap comes through. Does anyone know about an error with the driver?
I haven't noticed corruption, but it is inaudible. It started at 2.4.11, in the -ac branch too, I'm still trying to figure it out. I am running 2.4.13 SMP now, using the SPDIF interface. My es1371 still works great.
You know, patch does have a -E option to erase empty files.
I noticed, when I tried to patch my sources :-)
by
Moritz+Moeller+-+Her
·
· Score: 1
Never trust a slashdot post.
But in fact the jopystick patch has been missing in the Changelog. I had used AC kernels because of this bug and what is the point of an incomplete changelog?
Next time I will check the code in the kernel first.
Slashdot Mirror
Does this new kernel include the latest snapshot of ext3?
Ext3 is both distributed in the kernel and as a separate package, and I'm a bit lost : what ext3 code should we use for more reliability? Should the previous kernel be patched with the latest ext3? Does the new kernel include it? Does the latest ext3 cleanly applies to Linux 2.4.13?
I'm lost...
{{.sig}}
There have been quite a few kernel releases in the past week or two as well as some high-profile bugs. Is the kernel just going through a natural rough-spot or is something different going on?
"Use the mirrors!"
"Make sure you patch, don't waste bandwith!"
"Damn, there goes my uptime"
"Heh, I'm STILL running Kernel 1.2.1!"
"Does anyone NEED to use the latest kernel? What does it add?"
"Use the latest kernel! Testing is vital!"
"2.4.13? I thought Linux was at 7.2?!"
If I've forgot any, post to this thread. Hell, if you're any of the above postings, post to this thread....
Just seemed like yesterday that 2.4.11 was out. I guess I missed 2.4.12. Kudos to the team for pounding out new code like this.
On a related note, does anyone know if any type of development on 2.5.x or (shall I say...) 3.0 is being done? Just seems that right around this time with 2.2 the 2.3 kernels were cranking up. In any event, keep 'em coming!!
final:
/dev/random fixes
/proc buffer memory sizes right after buf-in-page-cache
- page write-out throttling
- Pete Zaitcev: ymfpci sound driver update (make Civ:CTP happy with it)
- Alan Cox: i2o sync-up
- Andrea Arcangeli: revert broken x86 smp_call_function patch
- me: handle VM write load more gracefully. Merge parts of -aa VM
pre6:
- Stephen Rothwell: APM idle time handling fixes, docbook update, cleanup
- Jeff Garzik: network driver updates
- Greg KH: USB updates
- Al Viro: UFS update, binfmt_misc rewrite.
- Andreas Dilger:
- David Miller: network/sparc updates
pre5:
- Greg KH: usbnet fix
- Johannes Erdfelt: uhci.c bulk queueing fixes
pre4:
- Al Viro: mnt_list init
- Jeff Garzik: network driver update (license tags, tulip driver)
- David Miller: sparc, net updates
- Ben Collins: firewire update
- Gerd Knorr: btaudio/bttv update
- Tim Hockin: MD cleanups
- Greg KH, Petko Manolov: USB updates
- Leonard Zubkoff: DAC960 driver update
pre3:
- Jens Axboe: clean up duplicate unused request list
- Jeff Mahoney: reiserfs endianness finishing touches
- Hugh Dickins: some further swapoff fixes and cleanups
- prepare-for-Alan: move drivers/i2o into drivers/message/i2o
- Leonard Zubkoff: 2TB disk device fixes
- Paul Schroeder: mwave config enable
- Urban Widmark: fix via-rhine double free..
- Tom Rini: PPC fixes
- NIIBE Yutaka: SuperH update
pre2:
- Alan Cox: more merging
- Ben Fennema: UDF module license
- Jeff Mahoney: reiserfs endian safeness
- Chris Mason: reiserfs O_SYNC/fsync performance improvements
- Jean Tourrilhes: wireless extension update
- Joerg Reuter: AX.25 updates
- David Miller: 64-bit DMA interfaces
pre1:
- Trond Myklebust: deadlock checking in lockd server
- Tim Waugh: fix up parport wrong #define
- Christoph Hellwig: i2c update, ext2 cleanup
- Al Viro: fix partition handling sanity check.
- Trond Myklebust: make NFS use SLAB_NOFS, and not play games with PF_MEMALLOC
- Ben Fennema: UDF update
- Alan Cox: continued merging
- Chris Mason: get
Prediction lists (and their addendums)...
Why dontcha just download the diffs?
My other car is first.
Please avoid slashdoting the main server. Here is list of direct links to mirrors. Version 2.4.13, full tarball : [al] - [dz] - [as] - [ad] - [ao] - [ai] - [aq] - [ag] - [ar] - [am] - [aw] - [ac] - [au] - [at] - [az] - [av] - [bs] - [bh] - [bd] - [bb] - [by] - [be] - [bz] - [bj] - [bm] - [bt] - [bo] - [ba] - [bw] - [bv] - [br] - [io] - [bn] - [bg] - [bf] - [bi] - [kh] - [cm] - [ca] - [ic] - [cv] - [ky] - [cf] - [ea] - [td]
{{.sig}}
-sting3r
How the **** do you apply the patches? I've never had a single problem so far. My typical patch-procedure:
cd linux-2.4.12bzcat
cd
mv linux-2.4.12 linux-2.4.13
Should take care of everything.
well...the past 2 releases had bugs... How do we know this one doesn't? I think I will hold off on installing until it's been tested without problem. The previous 2 releases( 2.4.11 and 2.4.12 ) haven't done much for my opnion of the quality control process as of late....
Looks like Linus AGAIN didn't bother to check in the joystick fix. It's been broken since 2.4.10. Vojtech Pavlik had a fix ready before 2.4.11, but Linus is sitting on stuff, as usual. Here's Vojtech's patch, if you're having analog gamepad problems. It's probably going to wrap awful in this stupid text box, so try to piece it back together.
Oh jeeze, stupid slashdot says there's too many junk characters. You're going to have to manually make these changes, then I guess, since it won't take the diff format.
in linux/drivers/char/joystick/analog.c
change
#define GET_TIME(x) do { if (TSC_PRESENT) rdtscl(x); else outb(0, 0x43); x = inb(0x40); x |= inb(0x40) speed > 10000 ? "M" : "k", (port->loop * 1000000) / port->speed);
to all of this
port->speed > 10000 ? "M" : "k",
port->speed > 10000 ? (port->loop * 1000) / (port->speed / 1000) : (port->loop * 1000000) / port->speed); }
I was excited reading the kernel changelog until I got to this line:
- Trond Myklebust: make NFS use SLAB_NOFS, and not play games with PF_MEMALLOC
I'm sure NFS won't mind using SLAB_NOFS, but it's cruel to prohibit it from playing games with PF_MEMALLOC. NFS has reached the point where playing games with PF_MEMALLOC is the sole respite from the drudgery of its mundane life. None of the other protocols will play with it since the Trivial Pursuit incident of 1998, and it's banned from EQ for excessive Britishing.
Sure, we've all been inconvenienced a little now and again when NFS is playing games with PF_MEMALLOC, but it wasn't that bad, and it brought a glimmer of joy into NFS's otherwise bleak existence. Now NFS will be forced to sit alone in its room playing X Bill all alone until it goes mad and starts initializing remote filesystems at random.
Then where will we be?
Trond Myklebust, I hope you're happy with yourself. What did NFS ever do to you? It's just cruel, and we'll all have to deal with the consequences when people start running NFS on 2.4.13. You should be ashamed.
*telekon
To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion.
The Linux Kernel. Updates rolling out faster than communist tanks during the cold war.
Looks can be deceiving. Or CAN they?
I want to be a slashdot editor too (looks easy):
if(new_kernel_arrived) {
version=X.Y.ZZ
if(slow_week) {
version=X.Y.ZZ-preWW
}
print "Looks like Linux X.Y.ZZ is out. You can get it at the usual place (kernel.org) and the mirrors. Check out the Changelog."
if(CmdrTaco just upgraded to ZZ-1 ||
weekday=tuesday) {
print "This is lame."
} else {
print "Grab. Test. Enjoy"
}
}
Thomas S. Iversen
-sting3r
Patches are simple! If you are using the linus tree see the other reply. If you are using the -ac (alan cox) tree than grab the incremental patches from bzimage.org. To apply the patch go to /usr/src/linux (instead of /usr/src like with the linux patches) and patch away...
If you had provided an example of your pains with patching you would have got a much more detailed reply from somebody. Thoughts to ponder...
The good news is that Linus seems ready to hand 2.4.x over to Alan. From the latest Kernel Traffic Linus was quoted as saying:
It seems that Linus is going to do the same thing that he did with the 2.2.x kernels, make a mess out of them (especially VM), have a few back-to-back releases, then hand the whole thing over to Alan.Go not unto/. for advice, for you will be told both yea and nay (but have nothing to do with the question)
I must say that I am getting a little bit leary about using the 2.4.x series in production. The fast releases don't inspire confidence. On one hand people (perhaps rightfully so) say don't use a kernel that is newer than 6 mo. old or you are a beta tester. But of course those older kernels were once bleeding new as well...how to know which to use and which to avoid? That 6 mo. old one might be the right age and yet perfectly horrible. Perhaps what is needed is a kernel stability/security chart that shows how well different kernel versions have "aged". Anyone know of such a beast?
Downloaded the linux-2.4.13.tar.bz2 file in less than 50 seconds @ around 300kb/sec. Wow!
Codifex Maximus ~ In search of... a shorter sig.
... sometimes I fly with the white swan to my Liffey home.
As for stability, the Linus' releases don't seem to be formally tested anyway. Maybe Linus is more conservative in applying patches before the release, but the recent events (2.4.11 and 2.4.12) show that the kernel may not compile in a common configuration and be released notwithstanding.
A little offtopic but quit correct. It turns out Bill Gates went even further and stated "..you need to look at other peoples code and improve upon it..". Hmmm Kind of sounds like un-american opensource doesn't it?
http://saveie6.com/
That's a silly way of doing it. What if you fuck up your patched tree? Then you have to untar the original and patch and patch and patch. Here's what I'd do:
/home/mylogin/patch-2.4.13.bz2 | patch -p1
/usr/src# cp -av linux-2.4.1[23]
/usr/src# cd linux-2.4.13
/usr/src/linux-2.4.13# bzcat
This lets me have a backup of 2.4.12 just in case.
Q.(The kernel) 2.4.13 just came out a few days after the 2.4.12 release, which was a broken one. Aren't you worried about the kernel reputation?
Linus:I couldn't care less.
Q.But that's the second time that happens in 2 weeks (2.4.12 was released just 2 days after 2.4.11). Are you sure there is not a problem with the 2.4 branch?
Linus:See my answer to the previous question.
Despite the fact that 2.4.11 is tagged "Don't Use This" it's the only kernel that works for me for Very Very important app - Return To Castle Wolfenstein :) With all other kernels tried I can't connect to multiplayer servers through 56k modem connection. It might be some configuration options that does it but with other kernels it just stays forever in state "Getting game state". Too bad i didn't install that SuSE's patch which stores the active configuration in /proc/config.gz so it could be copied as a basis for the new kernels (Yes I ran make mrproper before applying the 2.4.12 patch so I lost old .config)
Microsoft? Is that some kind of a toilet paper?
...but its criteria:
.
2.4.12 was released just 2 days after 2.4.11 to fix a bug that happens in a particular situation that happily nobody uses
Then 2.4.12 had a bug that broke the parport module, which unhappilly affects almost everyone who compiles a kernel, and a release to fix that bug took almost 2 weeks!
IANAQAE (I am not a QA expert), but that doesn't sound good to me...
If you are new to installing your own kernel, or you want to get started on kernel programming, see http://www.kernelnewbies.org/ and join them on IRC in #kernelnewbies on the Open Projects Network.
Also helpful to newbies, or to convince you it's worthwhile to help with testing, is my other article Why We Should All Test the New Linux Kernel.
And finally there is the Kernel HOWTO.
If you'd like to program or debug the kernel, I recommend a couple of books:
-- Could you use my software consulting serv
Yeah, am trolling.
;)
But I still wonder why has FreeBSD had a stable
rw support for NTFS, and the linux kernel is still
lagging...
I mean, can't they copy^H^H^H^Hmodel it after
the BSD code like they have done in some many cases?
To relieve a bit of stress from kernel.org, heres the gzipped tarball...
g z
http://beresm.stu.rpi.edu/~mike/linux-2.4.13.tar.
Monday is a horrible way to spend 1/7 of your life.
Hey.. but linux is still way more stable than windows.
Soon X>Y, in 2.4.X and 2.2.Y. Only 6 more to go...
my other sig is a 500 page novel
... not to mention the endianness console fixes.
With these you no longer get garbage on your screen in VGA text mode if you're using a big-endian (e.g. PPC or PA-RISC) box with a VGA adapter.
I mean how can Linux not submit a simple SMALL fix for all joystikcs out ther, This SUCKS.
GRRR! I personally reported this bug three times!
Moritz
Here is a hint to use patches
/usr/src/linux
/usr/src)
1) make sure your kernel source lies in a directory called 'linux'
EG.
2) Now goto the parent directory (eg
3) Now execute the following commond with the downloded patch (be sure you have write permissions in the linux subdirectory)
$ bzip2 -cd | patch -p0
(that is p zero at the end)
Remeber that patches are incremental, so you have to patch from 2.4.10 to 2.4.11, and then to 2.4.12, and not directly with a single patch to 2.4.10
I have personally patched all the kernel relases (from 2.4.1 till 2.4.12) this way, and it worked every time.
If you stil have problems, do get back to me, and I'll help you
This Post was entirely made up of recycled electrons making up recycled signals to generate recycles ASCII to generate t
I agree with you that the quality of /. is decreasing steadily, when you can't even post patches! My god! Well, that is commercial stuff for you. Anyways thank you for the attempt to use this miserable forum, here is a link to the kernel list archive and the post with the patch.
1 09 .3/0599.html
http://www.uwsg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0
Hello Linus? Wake up? How about some reacting on feedback?
Hello CmdrWacko? How about a less intrusive filter?
Moritz
- Gerd Knorr: btaudio/bttv update
@whee. Sounds good.
I just wish that some day I will see a working Linux bttv driver. For some reason, I always drop WAY too many frames with every Linux video capture program I use. (MainActor has been best so far - it only drops a few frames, almost gets perfect video quality, almost keeps A&V in sync and almost saves in format that can be read to Virtualdub in Windows, or any other Win32 editing app).
I need to use Windows programs to do video captures, which technically isn't nice either because the driver really doesn't work perfectly there either - it either works perfectly or not at all, depending on the phase of the moon.
Better multimedia support is always nice. One day, I will be able to use Linux for everything. =)
http://www.uwsg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0110 .2/0463.html
Moritz
> Why, oh why, don't they use CVS?
Actually, the diffs *are* like CVS. Get every patch that
has a higher number than the kernel you are using to
get to the latest. Note that the Alan Cox series are NOT
incremental. You only need the latest there.
Actually, there was a patch out the same day, available from all good kernel mirrors.
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
Does anyone know if this kernel supports R or R/W the W2K style NTFS filesystem? Or if it's slated to be supported eventually? Figure this might come in handy now that MS is pushing XP so hard. Thanks!
3000 dead over past 2 years, still no free Palestinians, still
And before you tell me to use patches, let me tell you that I've never gotten a single patch to work. I don't know if they're drunk when they create those patches, but each one of them complains about missing files when I try to apply them.
Obviously you're doing something wrong; maybe you should ask for help with that sort of thing instead of just downloading the 20MB and blaming the kernel developers.
Hash: SHA1
I must say that I am getting a little bit leary about using the 2.4.x series in production.
I can't say that I blame you (although your reason of "fast releases" not inspiring confidence is IMHO misguided)
I do use 2.4 in production in several environments, but in order to assure you have a stable kernel you need to do more than just dowload the latest and greatest.
I too have been irritated with some of the overreaching changes in a kernel series that is supposed to be stable (2.0 and 2.2. were very solid, some 2.4 kernels can be used in critical environments, but others cannot), but have found the above mentioned precuations/practices sufficient to avoid getting burned by the unstable releases which have appeared from time to time (eg 2.4.11), and 2.4 does
have a number of features that make it very, very useful in many production situations.
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The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
I wonder; will this kernel support an UPS connected trough an USB interface?
www.vanheusden.com - home of Multitail, HTTPing, CoffeeSaint, EntropyBroker, rsstail, bsod, listener, nagcon, nagi
It would be really helpful for lazy people like myself who actually use the links people post on here.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Here is a hint to use patches
That's an okay hint, but why not try this? I've been doing it since the early 2.2 kernels:
From there, I copy arch/i386/boot/bzImage
I find this is the cleanest and fastest way to patch a kernel. The patch-kernel script will stop if it runs into trouble and you can try to fix it. Be sure to remove any .rej and .orig files before rerunning the patch-kernel script or it will think there's still trouble.
Shoot - might as well go for the gusto:
/dev/random
chmod +x
/dev/random
Yep. That ought to do it. Hey, why is windows booting?!?
No thanks. I don't smoke anymore.
This one one of the funniest posts I've read in slashdot for a long time!
"Ooh, look, Alan Cox is merging with the kernel!"
sed 's/In Soviet Russia/In NSA America/g' < yakov-smirnoff-jokes.txt
Oh, altough it is true that downloading every 2 weeks a new kernel might be (is) bandwidth consumming, nevertheless why someone should upgrade it's kernel every 2 *** weeks?!?
Let's be realistic, the changes made from one version to another are very precise, read the change log first, and then decide if you are really using that really cool stuff they are upgrading!
vcr with the Indeo 5.0 codec. vcr for me drops about 1 frame in 2000 - not as good as it should be, but acceptable. And the resulting files are VirtualDub readable, which is good - I haven't found any better way to cut commercials and merge multiple AVI files in Linux.
There's a nice symbiosis there, because the Windows bttv driver generally bluescreens on me within the first minute or two of recording. I don't know what I'd do if I wasn't dual booting.
kernel: eepro100: wait_for_cmd_done timeout!
last message repeated 22 times
kernel: eepro100: wait_for_cmd_done timeout!
last message repeated 3 times
kernel: NETDEV WATCHDOG: eth0: transmit timed out
kernel: eth0: Transmit timed out: status 0050 0cf0 at 59028/59056 command 000c0000.
At least Intel's drivers for the Pro/100 VM card are stable. Heh.
If you have lm_sensors and i2c 2.6.1, you need to do a "make clean" and a "make depend" in those source trees (after building kernel 2.4.13) to deal with an apparent change in a kernel file name. Other than that those packages work fine with the new kernel (so far ...).
It's probably wise to do that every time, but I've been able to get away with "make clean all install" until now.
If you're on a desktop machine, try the kernel pre-emption patch - it's nice, and will make everything feel more responsive and smooth, since in addition to the normal user-space pre-emptive multitasking, the patch allows a lot of kernel calls to be pre-empted.
Even if you don't want to use the patch, you might want to try renicing X negatively to make it feel a bit snappier.
Choice of masters is not freedom.
Well, firstly... should the kernel developers change the whole system so it's slightly more convenient for you?
Secondly... I dunno what your problem with patches is.. but I've been patching for about 9 years, and had very few problems; and those problems are usually due to some foreign patch I applied previously.
And why do you upgrade your kernel every week? That's rediculous. There is no need for it. There are plenty of stable kernels out there you can use.
Hi! I read the discussions on each kernel release, and I wonder what I'm missing. I'm using 2.4.12 and ReiserFS, but everything is stable. All of my files are intact. I can compile the kernel while listening to 160kb/s mp3 files, and they do not skip, even in KDE. My production machine has yet to swap, let alone swap to death. This is just as boring as the 2.0.36 kernel that powered my production server for a year. The same went for 2.4.5 and 2.4.9.
I somehow feel like less of a Slashdotter because I'm not having troubles. How can I get in on the action?
Is the kernel just going through a natural rough-spot or is something different going on?
Well, Linus is really good about pursuing groundgreaking new technologies and trying to add them to the kernel. He is not so good at attaining rock-solid stability...
Alan Cox is the other way, though. Now that Linus is working on the 2.5 series, we can expect:
1: Fewer bugs
2: Fewer new features.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Hey UNIX! Ever hear of a patch?
try this from the csh and get:
Hey: no match.
(works better with Got a light?)
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Did you not read my post? I said I was lazy, which would kind of make it unlikely that I would do that...
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Huh?
I don't understand how this is either relevant to the Linux Kernel 2.4.13, nor how you came to the conclusion that people in the Australian Outback talk like that.
Paul "TBBle" Hampson
Paul.Hampson@Pobox.Com
The nvidia drivers are a kernel module and an X library driver, not a kernel patch.
Slightly OT, but what would be handy for people like me who can't code worth shit are utilities like mkpatch.pl in the lm_sensors package that make a custom patch for whatever your current kernel source is.
2.4.12 last week, 2.4.13 this week! Woohoo! Time to compile another one for the workstations and servers! Gotta love Linux, wouldn't see this from Microsoft, ever!
Hey, cool!
/usr/src/linux and do patch -p1.
I always just put my patches in
make oldconfig sounds cool too.
Thanks.
The old prophet predicted this!
"When the leaning tower shadows the dark circle,
and there will be two and double and sixfold plus one, and the few will be glad, and the many will bitch, and the others will pay too much for crap, be unafraid, for the VM is near."
-HobophobE
Nothing laughs forever.
Well, first of all, I've as of yet never fucked up my tree (but I do start from scratch every 10-15 th kernel, just to get rid of any removed files, since patch doesn't remove empty files), and second, it only takes me a couple of minutes to download a complete kernel, untar it and apply any patches onto it... And soon (at the end of this year), when GigaSunet is finished, the download will be even faster. Yummie.
The only source I'm really careful not to mess up is the v2.0.40-sourcetree, mainly because noone else has it :-)
Since I've upgraded to 2.4.13 I've weird problems with my Soundblaster Live. It seems whatever programs use the sound seem to do so fine most of the time, but the rest of the time corrupt crap comes through. Does anyone know about an error with the driver?
You know, patch does have a -E option to erase empty files.
Never trust a slashdot post.
But in fact the jopystick patch has been missing in the Changelog. I had used AC kernels because of this bug and what is the point of an incomplete changelog?
Next time I will check the code in the kernel first.
Moritz
that Linus said he couldn't care less about marketing?
Or maybe that he said he couldn't care less about rms's brave GNU/world name change tantrums?
You can read more background about the whining here.