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Integrated Water-Cooled Case
man_ls writes "Tom's Hardware has a review of a new Koolance water-cooled case. It has a built in watercooling system, to save people into overclocking the trouble of building their own. Unfortunately, it only works with Athlon, Duron, and Pentium IIIs. The P4 socket isn't compatible with it. "
Integrated Water-Cooled Case
--or--
Don't put the computer in the refrigerator,
Put the refrigerator in the computer!
SIGFEH
All that energy should be going into your domestic hot water system. I reckon a machine left on all day could heat up enough water for a shower. But how many overclocking geeks shower daily?
What if one of the pipes bursts? Or evel leaks a little? Is such a risk worth the extra CPU cycles?
Ñ'
I wonder if this unit can be filled with alcohol or ethanol.
Perhaps using aluminum dust in the water would help, as well.
Knunov
Why do users with IDs under 100,000 or over 700,000 usually have the most worthwhile comments?
... familiar. Anyways, here are some obligatory links:
Koolance
Overclockers.com
[H]ard|OCP
Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
The P4 is very different from the Athlon and the P3. I don't know how the new P4 (socket 478?) looks like exactly, but the older one (socket423) was definitely larger than the Athlon or the P3 socket. Probably it is not cost effective to produce such a case for the P4, since the differences in design and manufacturing would have added to a significant price.
Also, I haven't seen or heard of any people o/c-ing their P4s (correct me if I'm wrong). So that market share is pretty slim to begin with. If you're not into o/c-ing, such a case is definitely an overkill. Unless you appreciate the quietness of a water cooled system.
So it does not seem very surprising that this case does not support the P4. Maybe later on, they will add the support, but right now they're catering to the AMD o/c-ers, who are far more numerous than on the Intel platform.
I still think the $250 price tag attached is to high...making it a niche market.
They say they target Overclockers and Power Users. I think they meant "We target that geek who needs every new god damn toy for his computer no matter what the cost". That's someone who thinks Mhz is the most important part of the equation. NOT a Power User.
I overclock, but I do it to get the most bang for my buck. The extra money I'd spend on this case would be better used on buying other improved system parts, not just pushing my Mhz that much higher. (think SCSI hard drive)
I would never want to OC a P4. If I fry it, it's more exepensive to replace. An AMD is cheap, it's easy to OC, and it's fast as hell.
Um, this is my sig.
I know everyone's needs are different. Me, I hate fan noise. I understand we're in the early days of watercooling, so maybe I'm dreaming, but I'd like to see someone make a case and powersupply that has NO fans. (I count 4 good-sized fans in the case and powersupply alone of the reviewed unit.)
Top-mounted, well-ventilated radiators and an external power brick, anyone?
Ahhhh! The noise! The noise!
Around 3am last night a blast shook the neighborhood blowing out windows and killing 10 people including 4 young men who were in the immediate blast zone when it occurred. These men apparently were also responsible for the explosion itself.
The four men described as "Geeks" were apparently attempting to "Overclock" their system. Witnesses say one man was last seen carrying a large jug of Alcohol he claimed would "ch!ll th!5 f()k3r t0 d@ b0n3!".
The investigation continues...
"They do not preach that their god will rouse them, a little before the Nuts work loose." Kipling, 'The Sons of Martha'
One of the main reasons for watercooling is that if offers a much quieter alternative to the 60db Black label Deltas. However I don' quite understand this:
Sound Level: Very Quiet With Athlon XP 1800+
As far as the noise level is concerned, the new Koolance system is not quite as inconspicuous as the old one. At medium heat levels in the processor core, the three fans can produce quite a racket.
the new Koolance system offers high cooling performance and a low noise level
WTF? I don't no idea what he's saying!
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It's OK to be social, just don't tell anyone about it.
I'm not sure I understad the market that this is shooting for.
Back in the day, overclocking was all about getting the best performance out of a cheaper processor. For example, a $75 Celeron 366 overclocked to 550 would rival the performance of the $500 PII 550.
Grassroots watercooling did the same thing. It allowed people to reap more benifits out of a processor using cheapo parts they bought at their local auto parts stores. A used radiator, fish tank pump, tubing, and some epoxy to affix some home made heat remover directly to the core would cost just a few bucks. Watercoolers used to be an elite group of self doers, but now adays you can buy premade kits for just about anything.
Today, we've got $100 heat sinks, and $250 watercooled cases at a time where overclocking no longer yields significant percentages in processing power and where more than just the processor is a bottleneck.
Spending $35 on a Duron 750 and watercooling it to a gig or more doesn't seem that appealing when you realize 1 gig T-birds are only about $70.
Anyway, my conclusion is this: this product seems silly.
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It's OK to be social, just don't tell anyone about it.
Is it really worth the risk?
I mean, you are putting tubes full of running water right next to your expensive circuitry. This is a recipe for disaster. I know many people who have experimented with water cooling for overclocking, only to ruin their motherboard and processor when either:
a. Something in the cooling system fails and stops cooling the hardware, frying it in the process.
OR...
b. Something in the cooling system fails, causing massive coolant leakage right onto the motherboard, processor, and sometimes even expansion cards. Disaster is an understatement.
Considering that there is nearly nothing on the market these days that would financially justify overclocking as opposed to just buying a faster processor, I would hardly consider buying a water cooling system due to the risk involved.
Is your company running tools written by ma
Since overclocking can only give you a 10-20% performance increase (best-case scenario), I think it's more about adrenaline than performance. If so, using a koolance water-based system is like bungie jumping with a parachute.
The Raven
The Raven
I've never understood the hype for water-cooled cases, or even fans for that matter. I would be more excited if I heard of a P4 designed for PCs that runs without water, a fan, a heatsink larger than a novel, etc, etc. Cooling is all fun and games until the coolant dies from mechanical failure or otherwise. I'd feel more comfortable knowing that my system will never die from overheating rather than showing off my phat array of 71 fans in my case.
The real problem with water cooling is getting the H2O cooled fast enough to deliver cold water to the processor. I haven't read the article, but I was never a fan of water cooling, instead I use a refrigerator.
Explanation-
What is overclocking good for? Really? What I've seen is that people OC their computer to save that all important dollar, but find out that the cost for upgrading the cooling system is more expensive than just dishing out the cash and buying the faster processor (EXCEPT for the case of the P4 1.9Ghz and 2 Ghz). What I did when I OC'ed my computer was just for the hell of it, whereas my roomate in college (and at camp) did it just to show that you could. What did we do? We went down to the local Salvation Army, bought one of those little chest freezers, cut a couple of holes for the cables, put some caulk around those holes for a seal, and there we had it, a frozen computer. I tell you, nothing impresses the girls more that reaching into the freezer to put in a music cd. In the freezer, we also put a whole slew of those silica gel packets just to make sure that there was no water to damage our computer if there was a period of time when the power cable was knocked out. This was really a non-issue though, because we kept the freezer below freezing, so all the H2O vapor was frozen (except for the subliminating water, but that really doesn't matter. This was just a show off machine, and in the end, we ruined the computer when we spilled a bottle of vodka over the processor (the vodka was "coolant", and Joe was getting rid of the excess stuff)
I saw this at Comdex in Chicago. in APRIL.
Send in a post. No response. But enough bitching.
This is a really useful piece of hardware. It's a lot quieter than a regular case. In addition, because water's both cheap and extremely effective as a conuctor of heat, it can keep the temperatures of your CPU, graphics card, hard drives, anything you can slide a copper plate on near room temperature. It really increases systemic longevity.
Of course, you could just have your motherboard immerced in a vat of mineral oil and have a similar effect.. (Mineral oil is non-conductive. And before you say I'm full of it, this was the at the demo the Koolance people used at Comdex Chicago.)
I used to be someone else. Now I'm someone better.
Real life is underrated.
You could fill the system with an alochol. Why? The thermal conducticity, and, more importantly for a system with this type of design, lower specific heat capacity. This would mean that the pumps would have to move more fluid to remove the same amount of heat at a specified temperature.
Cooling systems based on alcohols (generally iso-propyl alcohol) have thier place, but this is not one. Also, alcohols have less viscosity, and thus different pumps aught to be used for maximum performance.
Putting aluminium dust in the water tank is a stupid idea. Firstly, it'll sink, and not be of much use unless the resoviour is desingned to have turbulent flow (unlikely). Even with most of it sinking, you'd get enough going through the pumps to gently abrade away all of the delicate seals, making the system fairly useless.
If you wanted to improve the cooling over water, the best bet is to go for oil cooling, but that requires totaly differnt styles of pumps for high performance.
The best thing you could do would be to use a saturated sugar solution, as it has a slightly higher specific heat capacity, for not significantly increased viscosity.. However, that would also require you to prevent bacterial growth, and so on.
This comes, by the way, from someone in a chemistry deparment that involves a signifcant number of pumps, moving various liquids, and, indeed, a number of water cooled systems, some of which are rated at about 100kW. Water is a damn good coolant.
If you think about it for a second, most J6P's would not consider this and neither would most hardcore overclockers either.
:) }
J6P would not do this, ever. Hardcore or Extreem OC'rs either, because they would build their own quite frankly.
This kit kind of hits the sweet spot (i.e. the "rest of us", perhaps) who are neither newbies nor extreemists.
Some of the highlights that caught my attention:
350W power supply is more than adequate, but considering that it is powering the board, chip, and pumps, it makes me take pause.
This is not including high end grfx hardware, several drives and god knows what else...350 might not cut it for very long.
The heat exchanger (radiator, essentially) is placed on top..good thermodynmics, but I did not see a lot of ventilation on the bottom of the unit in the pictures (think convection of the G4 cube)...not bad, per se, but *needed* I would think. (am I the only one who saw the Heat Exchanger and thought "they should have stuffed a few dead bugs and moths in it?" because it looks like a car radiator and what do they usually have in them?)
The rear of the unit does have a fan grate and extra air holes, but not the bottom.
Seeing as the fans on top "suck" the air...you have air "rushing" into the case from the back side and up and maybe from the front bottom and up but not from the bottom up.
You have to keep the MB and chipsets and cards cool as well, correct?
Overall it looks to be a very good value for the DIY crowd that does not have a machine shop handy but wants the "extra performance" without the "extra cost + time".
{I wonder if the water tanks also come in "ruby"
If it is not on fire, it is a software problem.
My bro bought one of these for $200. He runs a 1Ghz Athlon. I have an 850MHz Athlon. I have a $30 case with fan and a $15 Thermaltake fan/heatsink. Here's the catch, my computer and his computer make the same amount of noise. My cooling system can handle up to 1.3Ghz with no sound increase. Not only that but his is a ton heavier and the first one he got didn't work and he had to ship it back (Shipping costs ~$50) When the replacement arrived, it was missing the processor clamp. In short, my bro is mad and only marginally satisified with his case.
I looked through the article, but didn't notice if this was covered....
Anyone know if it's feasible to use something like fluorinert (a totally non-conductive liquid) instead of water, to mitigate leakage damage? Or is fluorinert sufficiently different in physical terms (thicker, probably) than water to make it unlikely to work with the pumps and radiator in this?
I really like it. I got the first case from them, after the obligatory 10 week wait -- They first said 3 weeks, but after I called 4 weeks later, they informed me that they were redesigning the system. After I received my unit and installed all the components, my 1GHz K7 was reaching 160F in 45 seconds. Koolance didn't believe me when I told them the unit wasn't circulating water. I put a normal TT heatsink on the proc and there was no problem. I sent the case back for repair. 4 weeks and many, many phone calls later, the replacement case arrived. It has worked flawlessly and quietly. I really am impressed with the low noise.
I didn't buy this to overclock, but to run quietly, which is really important when I use the box for audio recording (on location -- yes, it's heavy) and editing.
All in all, I love the case. The support from Koolance is decent, but they're slow. You decide . . .
Lian Li PC-78 case + Koolance watercooling system = impossible?
Pricey, but I'd love to see Koolance come out with something to cool dual proc systems.
- dforce
SELECT * FROM USERS WHERE A_WINNER = "YUO";
In a world where the average pc price is under $1000, $250 seems quite steep. I know some of you reading this made it sucessfully in the corporate IT world and make 60k a year but I am in school and work part time as a store merchandiser to pay tuition. To me this is way too much and doesn't really offer me anything I want or need. The whole idea of overclocking does not make much sense.
For all those math geeks reading this lets use a standard price/performance ratio. Lets compare prices for the state of the art athlon +1900 vs +1600. For a +1900 vs +1600, you spend an extra $200 more for a mere %8 performance gain. Now an overlocked +1900 would cost an another $250 for the price of the water-cooler to boost the megahertz speed. You would gain perhaps another %5-8. Remember that memory becomes the bottleneck at this speed and even ddram begins to slow things down quite a lot. Not to mention the pci bus speed and the bendwitch between the cpu and the agp card slows things down. So for $400 you would get a while %15 performance gain and have one hot(literally) system.
So the real question is what do you use the computer for and would overclocking with this tank system really benefit what your doing? Gamers started the whole overclocking movement. In the old days the speed of the processor was just as important as the video card if not more. If your a gamer today you could save money buying a state of the art Geforce3 and putting in a +1600 athlon and it will beat the crap out of a super overclocked system with an older geforece256. When your system becomes slow again buy a geforce4. You could save more money doing this in the long run. If your a hard core hacker then maybe you may want an overclocked machine. For me, doing programming homework on my pentiumIII700 takes only a few seconds to compile. I admit I have not written anything over 15k but that is how most small individual programming projects are. No one really write something that big by themselves. I have to admit it would take forever to compile something kde or a Freebsd "make world", but most people do this only occasionally. Its not worth $400 for me to compile something that big once every 6 months. Only the core kde members or freebsd developers would ever require something like this. I will happily wait an extra hour with my old PentiumIII 700 to compile kde. So basically must developers don't need these systems anyway. The last people I can think of who might want an overclocked system might be personal webserver admins or hobiest admins. I think a dual processor athlon +1200 would make a much better machine then an overclocked single +1900. They would be cheaper or close to the same price. The machine needs to stay on 24x7 and stability is important. You would not only get more performance with a dual +1200 but the system will be much more responsive if its under a heavy load. Hell even NT4 running IIS responds quickly with 2 processors. You all know that NT4 has bad thread handling. W2k and XP are alot better this.
Anyway I would advise agaisn't any overclocking because they are not worth it and I wish vendors would not sell systems that burn at over 65C or 160F. MY pentiumIII700 is cool to the touch and if I pay over a grand for the motherboard and cpu then I expect that it better be good quality and run cool. If it gets really hot then its way overclocked in my book and shouldn't be sold for production use or even personal. I also once had a 486 macine which ran at an unspeakable 66mhz at the time when it came out. I went through 3 cpu's on my system because it would freeze and get too hot. I will never buy a fast overclocked system again.
http://saveie6.com/
Many moons ago, computers were huge blocks that had to be kept in hermatically sealed, air conditioned rooms.
Today computers are small blocks that people want to put in mini-fridges.
Shouldn't we be concentrating on making chips run cooler WITHOUT adding extra fans/heat-sinks/water coolers/dusky maidens with palm leaves?
Terry
(probably talking nonsence again)
If a square is really a rhombus, why aren't all triangles purple?
Is there any problem with making the tubing longer and extending the radiator and pump out into a closet or other room? (as long as the air in said place is cool)
There's no point in overclocking these days except for the fun of it, and I haven't got time for that. But liquid cooling for purposes of making a silent system...now that's where it's at.
Imagine no CPU fan, no case fans, a quiet power supply fan and Segate's new silent 7200RPM HD's. Mmmm....
In case anyone wants to read a little more on the actual case used for this, here is a link to the actual manufacture of the case Click here it is made by Future Power, and I have to say, they do make a excellant case. (being a distributor for them I am a little biased though) I have this exact same case without the watercooling. Nice setup from them and a nice case. Think they did i great job
"No A Zaphod, didn't you hear we come in 6 Packs Now"
They rock. best power supply company around.
http://saveie6.com/
One can't help but wonder if Nitrous Oxide Injection, headers and gas filled shocks are coming soon. Bikini Clad models posed provocatively with the box, racing stripes, and GT models. Now that I think about it why not?
With all the case mods, like colored lights, windows, aluminum cases, superfans, heat sinks, and rounded cables, and now watercooled cases. It seems like it is already on the way. (bedsides we could use a few more bikinis in computer ads.) And how about 0% financing...and rebates, yeah that's the ticket, rebates....
Colors to match automobile colors (remember Malibu Blue?) Designer cases! Versace, Donna Loren, Tommy, Calvin Klein, Wow the possibilites are endless. Perhaps less time spent on getting them to work better, and more time on the superficial looks we could actually get people interested in our computing. Apple has already proven it doesn't have to be a bub (Big Ugly Box). Time to take it to the next step.
Also, why exactly are you worried about your computer causing too much noise in a college dorm? It's not exactly the library with "quiet please" signs posted everywhere. If there's anyone like me (bass player with a 200 watt amp) or my neighbor (huge sound system with a monstrous subwoofer) in your dorm, your computer is the LEAST of your noise concerns. If the noise bothers you that much, better to look into a) industrial-grade earplugs, or b) apartments.
you should check out ocmod and virtual hideout. Both have good tutorial sections, plus lots of info on water cooling (and all of the other alternatives). But if you really want to overclock, your most important source of info is the users manual that came with your mother board. It will tell you where all the jumpers (or bios settings) are for voltage, clock multiplier, and front-side bus.
do not read this line twice.
So, AMD really stands for "Dusky Maiden Association", backwards?
You could've hired me.
It's really not that bad. I actually really like it, the whole community aspect of the situation. Of course, I live one one of the liveliest floors in the hall. There are engineering floors (Which I was supposed to be on and somehow didn't end up there, thankfully) that are as quiet and boring as dirt. Well, most of the time, anyway. I'm sure they get their share of inebriated 3:00 AM people :).
Don't let me scare you away from the dorms - they're really great, if you like people. If you like quiet and solitude, though, they're NOT the place for you.