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Disney World Goes 802.11b
LighthouseJ writes "Over at CNN they report that Disney World in Florida has a 47-square mile 802.11b wireless LAN through the park with 200 access points. The move comes after visitors complaints that they couldn't use credit cards at every place in the park. Plus, it allows "cast members" to offer guests goods and services anywhere, not restricted to where the credit card machine is at. The man responsible, Murshid S. Khan, Director of Telecommunications and Technology Support sees this as a valuable technology, citing mobility and flexibility as the main reasons for the switch.
Khan goes on to say that the system is protected by a 128-bit encryption scheme and software installed to detect intrusions.
When he was asked if visitors will have access to the wireless network, CNN quotes him to say: 'We need you to come to the park and enjoy the park,' he said. 'If we start opening Internet cafes, you won't do that.' He's a smart man." So, running AirSnort wouldn't probably be the best idea? *grin*
Before they get cracked and decide this was not a good idea?
Do really dense people warp space more than others?
If they only have WEP, I won't spend a dime there. But I bet they are not dorks, they probably have everything done over a real encryption scheme
-- Who is the bigger fool? The fool or the fool who follows him? --
How long before that network is comprimised. In a matter of days People will probablly know what websites Mickey has been to (www.nakedmice.com) or what Mickey purchases online. (Probablly Real Dolls )
--
FearLinux.com
There are things the user could use besides surf the web. For instance, a little app on your wireless device that let you check the length of lines at the rides, the reservations at a restaurant etc.
Still, just as is, it is cool.
Sweet! Streaming porn while you whirl till you hurl!
I got out of the US Army last year and my last duty station was in Italy. I worked at the General Staff level and used my government credit card to pay for many dinners with visiting VIP. Imagine my surprise when paying for a dinner the restaurant owner brought out a wireless credit card machine. And this was a year and a half ago.
magic (all lowercase)
You know, some people go to Disney World to meet Mickey Mouse, others go for the rides. I think I'll go for the killer Quake III experience ;)
Is your company running tools written by ma
It was later found that Khan had stolen the Genesis machine, and killed Kirk's son!!
Sorry, you can mod me down, now.
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
or at least, if it /is/ an IP network, each device will be a VPN client. I would presume Disney has enough money to hire people smart enough to not depend on WEP for security.
Then again, larger companies have done dumber things...
-C
i had my pocket pc and an 802.11 card, couldn't get on on even find a network where i was at...
for more info...http://www.flashenabled.com/mobile
cheers,
pt
It's a bad place to ask the question, but here it goes -- Is there a windows version of airsnort out there anywhere? I found netstumbler, but it won't decrypt the keys.
"We need you to come to the park and enjoy the park"
;)
Imagine your laptop in one hand, some candy in the other one and getting chased by 23 security officers running over and knocking down mickey and his fellows...
I'm sure this scene is going to make it into "password: swordfish 2"
this sounds like a big heap of enjoyment to me
2 million credit card numbers stolen from disney world by 12 year old with laptop...
They say they have "software" that detects intrusions. That doesn't seem to imply much about tracking you down to the square foot.
OTOH, I don't recall ever seeing a laptop, so you'll stick out like a sore thumb unless you're in the bathroom with a PDA.
They do search bags currently. ALL bags, even diaper bags.
Also, there's an active Linux community among their IT people. There are definitely pockets of clue there, and it's likely that would extend to their IT security people as well.
It's not just a matter of buying 1000 whatevers that worked for the guy doing it for 150.
Shut up, be happy. The conveniences you demanded are now mandatory. -- Jello Biafra
Because I'd hate for wireless Mickey 2001 to start picking up air traffic chatter
Hi kids! I sure hope you enjoy the RED LEADER, RED LEADER THIS IS TANGO ONE. and make sure to visit our LOCKED, COCKED, AND READY TO BURN TANGO ONE, WHAT'S YOUR STATUS?
And hey, under the recent terrorism bills wouldn't that qualify Mickey as a terrorist? There's be a trial to top OJ.
Disclaimer: MINAA (Mummy! I'm Not An Animal!)
Credit card fraud is substantially less profitable now than it was 15 years ago when I did it. Back then, you could buy a new computer over the phone with a number that Credit Master spit out. Merchants have wised up now. (The thing I wonder about is why the banks' interest rates have gone up since then. No offense intended, but it's probably just a greedy jew thing.) Nowadays it's easier to steal money by hijacking PayPal accounts from Sircam-0wned machines and defrauding other online payment systems.
~wally
Not another wireless mouse!
Ba-dum-pa-chi! Thanks folks, I'll be here all night!
sin(6cos(r)+5A)
Why doesn't my university get something like that?
http://www.geocities.com/individualistanarchist/
The article doesn't mention if the entire 802.11b network is run over a VPN. If it's not I'm sure it wont be too long before we all find out.
Hey, pay attention. The guy said that they want people to enjoy "the park" so they won't let visitors have access. Depending on the scheme 128bit security does seem a bit weak, but it cannot be any worse than buying things online.
While on my honeymoon in DisneyWorld this year, my wife and I took quite a few of their Behind the Scenes tours. On the Epcot one, we found out why Disney will most likely never let people have 'Net access in their parks. (At least not in public places.)
Our tour guide said that they actually did have a kiosk there a few years back that let people browse the web and check their web-based e-mail. He checked on the kiosk once and found that some pervert had left up a XXX e-mail and changed the wallpaper. He wouldn't elaborate on what it was, but he said it shocked even him.
Luckily for them, they were able to remove the offensive material before anyone noticed. Still, as a place that bills itself as "family-friendly," they simply can't take the risk that it would happen again (and more high profile).
Our tour guide kept the possibility open that they would resume 'Net access with some types of safeguards against this, but no safeguard is 100%. Public Internet access is just not a high-priority item for Disney. (Believe me, there's so much to do at Disney World, that you won't have time to browse the Net.) The PR risks of another abuse far outweigh any customer gains.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
Only about 35% of the 47 square miles owned by The Walt Disney Company in Central Florida is developed. I highly doubt they went through the expense of creating a WLAN cloud that covers marshland. I doubt that even the hotel resort properties are covered either. It probably only the 4 theme parks, the 3 water parks, Downtown Disney and maybe Fort Wilderness near Pioneer Hall. That drops the square mileage significantly. Even with the hotel areas its only a fraction of 47 square miles. I really hate bad reporting.
I spent the summer living in Germany and traveled extensively in Europe. I wouldn't hesitate to guess that i came across 5-10 restraunts that used this to handle orders. It was great i didn't have to worry about someone running off with my credit card.
By definition, any given network is crackable. It's just a matter of time, right?
Here are some exploits that we can be sure of seeing in the future:
1. 'It's a Small World' animatronic dolls reprogrammed via wireless network to share their cultural feelings via a massive animatronic orgy of all nations.
2. Michael Jackson's "Captain Eo 3D" video replaced with low-quality MPEG of a video taken of what really happened at Macaully Caulkin's last birthday party.
3. Ride Space Mountain during DDOS season? Only if you're feeling suicidal. You never know when that modified Nimda worm is going to kick in.
4. Parade of Lights all flash in sequence to spell out "L33+ X1DD135 OWNZ JOO DIZNY"
5. Animatronic Abe Lincoln now shouts, "Beefcake. BEEFCAKE!!!!"
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
I took note of their network over a year and half ago when I went there with my Highschool senior class.
/w 802.11b card and go to work.
I noticed the cash registers were connected to an 802.11b network.. also, I spotted some computers as well.
I didn't have an 802.11b card at the time, and my only laptop had suffered a terrible accident.. so I wasn't able to do any 'diagnostics', but I thought it was interesting. Maybe next time I'll bring my PowerBook
See, you don't need to worry about getting into the park with your laptop.. Because this also extends to their hotels and probably their on-site buses as well.
Yes, we all agree that this network may be risky for transfering credit card info around, but they could over time move to a "disney dollar" card, where you pre-load the disney card with your credit card as you enter or on the phone or whatever, then use that disney card within the park grounds to buy whatever. Disney can then provide insurance against fraud against that card instead of worrying about being libel against Visa and AmEx in the case of number theft over the airwaves...
The other advantage is that Disneys own systems could authorize the sale over the Disney card instead of having to send out to a Visa/MC/AmEx authorizer off site-- it would be considerably faster that way (since the system could be built up front to support the average # of visitors on site), especially during holiday seasons...
Just a thought...
"But remember, most lynch mobs aren't this nice." (H.Simpson)
-- Joe
They should rent out wireless digital cameras, whenever a pic is taken its upload via 802.11 and before they leave the park, the got prints of the family vacation.
Also a previous article said it would be used to play music around the park based on location. IMHO, kinda of a waste for just CC's.
"Get them before they get....
The article doesn't say they are using tcp/ip. Doesn't look like it has internet access either. Probably requires some sort of username/pasword combo (possibly built into the devices) to log on to the LAN. If the encryption is properly implemented (a big if) it could be very secure.
Best Slashdot Co
I've been there multiple times over the course of the year (annual passes are great things) and I remember the kiosks the guide was talking about. They were still up the last time I was there, but they were whitelisted. Meaning that only the websites that Disney had approved were allowed, anything else not on their list was automatically blocked. The whitelisting seemed to work quite well. Interestingly enough, Slashdot was readable, so I guess someone in the Internet department at WDW likes his news for nerds.
Probably some of that sick, perverted, Godless Pixar stuff. ;-)
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
If you were planning to crack a network and steal purchase information, there's easier places, like dumpster diving, as I still see the occasional receipt with full number and expy on it blow down the streets with other stray litter.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
I wouldn't mind being able to browse the Net while standing in line. Hell, even surfing through a white-list filter would be better than nothing.
(Believe me, there's so much to do at Disney World, that you won't have time to browse the Net.)
And here I am thinking that the best way to while away those 1-2 hour waits in line for all the most popular attraction would be with Unreal Tournament or Q3Arena. If lag became an issue because of the sheer number of devices and users drawing bandwidth, you could always play something turn-based, like CivNet.
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
Unless they're using IPSec or something like it, they're vulnerable. WEP doesn't secure worth spit even with 128 bits because they implemented the whole protocol as an insecure system. Also of note is the fact that there is pretty much no commercial IDS software that would effectively catch someone doing something bogus in time to find them in a wireless context.
It's pure bravado that bases their claims of security- unless they have a security staff sweeping the entire park with DF gear, they're NOT going to catch anyone doing something illegitimate on their WLAN.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Oh,
you mean a wireless isolated network...
wireless as in broadcasted ?
that + isolated is quite a nice one 8)
Encrypted as in "please hack me, cos I'm full of family card codes and serialz" ?
Oh, isolated as in "no internet connection".
Yes ! an isolated broadcasted encrypted credit card numbers cahoot !
in a place full of "teenagers" that could try to snort & hack...
Possibly using a Palm VII (or wireless Pocketpc) to catch and forward the packet...
Oh God, I think I'll try and take a vacation. possibly in Orlando 8)
Why ain't I 15 !?!
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
With the electronic transactions that we have nowadays, you're going to see less and less of that sort of thing being possible. They're going to resort to snooping WLANs like Disney is setting up if they can. Sad thing is, they claim it's 128 bit encrypted- is that WEP or IPSec? If it's WEP, they might as well be broadcasting in the clear.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Hey, my GPS can do that! And considering ±3 metres with the length of the usual line, that would produced a reasonable degree of accuracy. It would be pretty cool to spend a day at D/World or D/Land with a GPS tracking you around like Billy of Family Circus (BTW, there's a couple good spoofs of F.C. in the latest Bizzaro collection.)
Still, you need something to do while standing in line at these parks for 40 minutes waiting to get on a 30 second ride.
"Look, mummy, is that man tying calculators together?"
"No, Bobby, he's a creep trying to crack the 802.11b network and 128bit encryption and steal our credit card info to sell to bin Laden"
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Since you posted that AirSnort link, I was curious, so I popped over to sourceforge and downloaded it. Part of their documentation says: "For a key length of 128 bits, this translates to about 1500 packets." then it goes on to describe how you can search for certain constants (starts with 0xAA, etc) within the packet to see which random keys were successful. Interesting stuff, and definitely a clever way to decode: thanks to flaws in the logic, every bit rate can be reduced to 8-bit encryption.
However, once you've collected your packets and broken the key, you now have a decoded packet. Well, what does that mean? You have the framing information (packet length, header) and the message body (which is just raw data).
I'd bet a 7-day park-hopper pass that the data in the packet's body is encrypted a second time with a more reliable scheme. If there's one thing Disney knows how to do well, its make money, and they can't risk the bad PR for this to foul up.
We already know that, and probably Disney does too. But who says that they aren't using some application-level encryption on top of WEP. Crack WEP, and you'll be staring at an additional layer of encryption (SSL, whatever).
Just wait till your little crumb-cruncher gives a hug to the the "cast member" dressed as Mickey, and Mickey asks for your credit card to run through the card machine inside his suit.
Because as far as I know at Disney's, they don't wanna let you know how long their lines are sometimes, they use specific techniques to hide that, for instance the scary Alien thingy, you got like 3 halls before it where you get to wait in groups, so it looks like yur already on the ride, but it's basically a glorified queue :)
Recently, I had lost my CC and had a new one issued- the only individual that I'd given the new number to was a Hell Desk employee at my ISP to get my autobilling straightened out. 3 days later someone bought some $2300 on the card from a car parts place in Houston (performance parts for some GM car...). I've gotten it straightened out- but they successfully used it.
Almost nobody checks billing addresses over the phone or online.
Nobody asks for a signature for mailorder or online purchases- how would they DO that.
Nobody that I've dealt with in recent times asked for the validation code from the back of the card- in general, I don't believe they do.
Nobody attempts to change the account- they just try to purchase with it. In many cases they succeed.
All it would take for someone to take you for several hundred dollars is to make a duplicate card (Easy with a magstripe writer) and use it at those pay at the pump gas pumps. No validation, no checking, no PIN.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
I heard a rumor that some of the employees at Disney World in California started referring to the place as "Mauschwitz". Management got royally pissed, sent around a memo forbidding the use of the term, and without skipping a beat, everyone switched to "Duckau".
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
"The man responsible, Murshid S. Khan, Director of Telecommunications and Technology Support"
I graduated UCF with my Computer Engineering Degree in 2000. For our senior design projects, Disney came and solicited us heavily to work on their projects. Free labor, helping a poor college student out with an idea, free labor, did I mention free labor. This project along with several others were mentioned. My comments regarding network security concerns were treated as pessimism. Needless to say I did not lend my time for Disney's free labor.
~ fact is not dependant upon your belief therein. ~ ~ Have I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth?
Residing in europe for some time now (hmm, since I was born ? 8) I can tell you this is old stuff.
Every (most) credit card are smartcard for 15 years in France. The credit card machine is in fact an autonomous code checker. It won't transmit your code on the air, but check it locally, then make a confirmation number that encrypt the acceptation code and your card references.
this number is either send remotely for acceptation by the central bank computer (above $500) or just locally accepts if the amount is small.
thoses devices existed before in Infrared transmission, and now use local radio link.
This allows a faster and more secure way than just the stupid magnetic strip...
Hoping to read from you 8)
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
I could see a "Disney" card where you can charge it up w/Cash value and use it like a credit card- with the ability to get a cash refund/credit for anything not used when you leave the park. Otherwise, it's no different than those gift cards Wal-Mart, Target, etc. are selling.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Interesting that slashdot made it to the white list. It may be that bad images may not make it through, but with some if the comments and ASCII art trolls, I'm surprised Disney was willing to risk it..
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
What would a thief do with several hundred dollars worth of gas? How would he store it - are you talking about the con artists who happen to own tanker trucks? Do people sell stolen gasoline on the streets where you live?
Try buying computer equipment and having it shipped to your workplace (instead of your home). Everybody runs the addresses through AVS nowadays. And I have personally had to FAX in a copy of my driver's license, my credit card, and my siggy for a big purchase.
It's got vulnerabilities, just like WEP does- just not as exploitable. For a small subnet (and this constitutes that...) SSL's only moderately secure- because an attacker will know up-front that there's financial stuff predominately on this WLAN. If you're in on WEP, then you can then snoop for SSL weaknesses without them knowing, etc. If they're relying on most of the encryption techniques out there, it'll keep most of the script kiddies from pulling something off- but nobody else.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
One, if they run NAT everything will resolved back to disney.com.
Two, who could trust such an..ahem.."Mickey Mouse Operation".
Three, their DHCP will probably charge by the address's lease life, which will be lobbied by congress to last the life of the laptop/user+ 90 years now? Talk about a revenue stream...oye.
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
The last time I was in a Disney Store I noticed that they sell gift cards, accepted only at Disney Stores, that you can load with any amount up to $500. (These are similar to the ones most major chains sell these days, from B. Dalton to Target.) I forgot to ask whether they were accepted at the parks, but it wouldn't surprise me, since in some ways Disneyland is the world's biggest Disney Store.
It doesn't seem like it would be that difficult to adapt the cards to the technology. In fact it would make some things easier -- include a card on the back of each Annual Pass, for instance, and the passholder would automatically get their 10% discount on park purchases, plus they'd be more likely to store money on the card (which of course could only be used to buy stuff from Disney).
As good as Disney is at extracting money from patrons, this seems like a natural for them.
Someone you trust is one of us.
All you need to do is monitor the ethernet frames or whatever else is coming in on the RF modem. All using a goofball protocol does is ensure that script kiddies don't get in on first base of hacking the net.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Don't assume that just because you were never bored, ON YOUR HONEYMOON I might add!, that nobody else is never bored either, or never has other reasons to remain connected. Besides the obvious down time in lines, at meals, etc., there's the fact that some people have older relatives near death, younger relatives near childbirth, etc. You can't put your life on hold, and carrying celphones everywhere is not always an option.
As for the kiosk abuse, that's completely irrelevant when you're talking about people using their own wireless devices. Think anyone is going to leave an expensive laptop or PDA lying around? If they keep it with them, then it's easy to identify the person responsible for the images.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
Think for a moment that you might not catch a bogus $20 gas purchase- especially if it was done in your normal area of operation. They could concievably fill up 5 or 10 times if they're lucky enough.
As for "everybody" running the addresses through the AVS- that might be your experience, but not mine. 1) If they had, this purchase that this joker made on my new account # wouldn't have went in the first place (wouldn't have made it through- no ID, etc.), and 2) I have yet to be accosted for drivers license, card, etc. for purchases not going to my house.
I've not done computer equipment purchases via mail/online lately, so I don't know about that- but I DO know about other stuff and it doesn't seem to be as you claim.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
More info to be found at http://www.computerworld.com/storyba/0,4125,NAV47_ STO65816,00.html . They mention that it involves "128 bit encryption", which certainly leads one to think 128b WEP, but remain cagey about further security- I'll vager VPN. One thing that did catch my eye was the guest tracking. They propose the innocuous example of insuring guests have all returned to a cruise ship- but I think that sets a dangerous precedent...
;)
Anyone else see Westworld/Futureworld?
Thermowax
People really have no clue about how to secure wireless networks.
I'm sitting here typing this while I wait for Jim "Open Source is Un-American" Allchin to deliver the keynote at the Windows Embedded Developers Conference. I have already found one guy on the un-WEPed 802.11b network with his C: drive mapped as \\steven2\c
--
E_NOSIG
If someone was attempting to break into a wireless network, should you be able to find the access point they are using and triangulate the signal they are broadcasting with based on what channel they are communication to the base station with? This is how the FCC finds unlicenced raido stations, etc...
Granted the signal is weaker, but you can really narrow the search by inly examining the area around the base station the person is using..
- Sig
We could use the network to distribute DeCSS throughout all of Disney World. Now wouldn't that get the attention of the MPAA.
While working for the rat-king a number of years ago, I went to lunch in the cafeteria under the magic kingdom. I walked in and saw Snow White, in complete costume and makeup, sitting on her boyfriend's lap smokign a cigarette.
:-D
Maybe Snow can start start taking credit cards to turn tricks in the alleys of main street.
Disconnect your television. Do your own research. Draw your own conclusions. They're probably lying. Don't be a sheep.
Nobody asks for a signature for mailorder or online purchases- how would they DO that.
While it isn't done often, it does happen.
They do it by fax machine or snail mail, and it's a real PITA, especially when you don't have a fax machine.
I bought a MC218 (Psion 5mx copy) from Expansys in the UK, and
they had me fax over a signed photocopy of my card and my driver's license before they'd run my order.
Not sure if they do this for all orders or just for international ones tho.
C-X C-S
Any information needed to make a purchase is stored. Typically up until now it has been CC# and exp date. As you mentioned, more information is being required now to make the same purchase.
However, for one click shopping, etc. that many online retailers have (where no signature is required or signature is on a digital pad), they still have to store all that extra information, because it's needed to authenticate the purchase. So when anyone stumbles across your database, they still have the access to the information they need, they just need to grab 5 columns instead of 2.
The only method you mentioned that would solve this is faxing the signatures. And if the signature is digital (UPS, MicroCenter, etc), it's probably stored as a LOB in the database in a picture format anyway, and the Hacker now has a printable version of your signature. Also, most e-tailers don't have your signature because it's impracticle to get it from you. Remember, just because your CC was stolen from somewhere that needs a signature, it can still be used somewhere that doesn't
- Sig
I have a plan....
Great idea to have fun w/ their networks.
Alter the headers in the packets to contain DeCSS (now shortened to a few lines).... Love to see the looks on their eyes when they have their own Trademarked material floating through the air....
ping: unknown host johny.doe.disneyland.disney.com
If johny doe was lost, wouldn't the ping request just timeout?... because when they put the "tracking shirt" on the kid, they would need to put in a dns entry of johny.doe.disneyland.disney.com which is bound to the ip address on the shirt-device. Therefore, the host would be known, but would time out because the kid is out of the park. Right?
There's no way that Disney wouldn't take network security VERY seriously for this project. Although it does make me a bit nervous they placed so much emphasis on the 128-bit encryption.
I tcpdumped about 10 megs of data snarfed from the most wirelessly connected university in America, and besides broadcast queries for NT servers and floods of IPX SAP frames coming from network printers, the *only* packet of interest I got was the output of a finger some guy ran against his own OpenBSD box on campus. And I later found plenty of security-related posts from this guy on usenet, too. How's that for irony?
I went home and reviewed web pages describing their security infrastructure due to the weakness of 802.11b, and it was very intense. Beyond Kerberos. If Disney's doing this specifically to mobilize credit card readers, I've gotta say that wireless has been weakened long enough for them to not have any excuse to do it right.
Not to mention, with IBM's Tomorrow World being such a big hit in Epcot (and Disney closing DIG, their Internet venture), I'm SURE we had something to do with their planning and deployment. And I totally agree with the others who have said that enabling wireless PDA's such as line checking, maps, and restaurant reservations.
Intelligent Life on Earth
Does anyone know what brand of radios & APs they're using?
Great, instead of war driving, people will be doing war riding on "It's a small world after all".
If I've already paid admission, and can't get knick-knacks and food from anywhere but their shops, why should Disney care if I come for the attractions, or the Wireless?
After I've bought my ticket, I'm IN the park. IIRC, the rides don't cost anything but time after that. I'd much rather check tomorrows weather on my Pilot, plan out my next day at Epcot while in line at Magic Kingdom's Pirates of the Carribean, and just shoot out a quickie "Wish you were here" email over lunch, than have to wait until I get home to do these things.
It's not about 'enjoying the park'. It's about the cost of providing the additional service. It's always about the MONEY. This is DISNEY people.. They have a Copyright on FUN, remember?
The REAL jabber has the user id: 13196
What you do today will cost you a day of your life
I spent three days underground in Epcot, and I saw a janitor smoking and a manager-type politely asked, "Hey, could you do me a favor? Could you put that out please?" My guess is that although smoking is allowed in rest areas, that people in costumes would not be smoking.
Here is what a quick web search shows:
"I never thought I would recover from seeing Snow White smoking behind the fence" view
"I once saw Snow White backstage smoking her cigarette and snarling: "Well tell the kid to fuck off, I'm on my break." view
"Walt Disney made sure that Disneyland visitors would never turn a corner in Fantasyland to see Snow White smoking a Virginia Slim" view
"Standing off to one side, Snow White watched the scene in obvious disgust, chain-smoking one unfiltered Camel after another." view
The US FIRST Robotics national competition is in EPCOT.
;-)
Boy, we're gonna have a field day with this
-twb
But what you're forgetting is that while it may be easy to get a couple dozen card numbers off of alt.2600.hackerz, it's pretty hard to forge an actual card unless you're in cahoots with the cashier. (which leaves a trail that somebody will eventually follow if you card enough stuff.) Ever wonder why the register asks you for the last 4 digits of the account number? It's so that scammers can't rewrite the magstripe on an existing card with a "custom" account number.
So you can sniff Disney's 802.11b network and get a bunch of (account, expiration date) tuples that you can't use anywhere, or you can pick pockets to steal cards that you can use offline. The former is scalable but unprofitable. The latter is profitable but not scalable.
Banks learn from their mistakes pretty quickly. Don't be surprised if POS terminals start getting retrofitted so that a PIN is required for credit purchases as well as debit purchases, in the next few years.
~wally
Are you kidding me? It's one thing playing with those networks in normal society, in normal society there's due process. But haven't you people heard about disney jail? They can hold you there indefinitely for any reason they deem fit, that scares the hell out of me.
"The crows seemed to be calling his name, thought Caw."
This is most likely an Internet connection. It has got to be a private network connection, and I'd imagine they are using something like IPSec for security, and have the network name broadcast disabled in the APs.
As they said, they don't want people using the network for Internet access, and I see no reason why they would have Internet on this network.
When you get to hell, tell them Itchy sent you!
Otherwise there will be dead spots. Roller coasters tend to obstruct radio waves.
When I worked at Incredible Universe before it got bought ca. 1996-1997. We had wireless "Telxon" pads that worked as portable terminals for scanning in customer orders. There were times where we would have to stand on a chair and point them at antennas to get them to work. I guess the visible metal warehouse style ceilings caused problems as well as all of the electronic stuff running.
I really didn't give this much thought until i noticed somebody mentioned the FIRST competition being held in spring there. US FIRST I've been to the competition before, and they try to give internet access/network drops in the pit area for contact and information (it helped save us last year, grabbing a copy of the bot's code of our site that we forgot to bring) so I do believe we'll have indirect access to the network through wired access points. Why create another network when one's in place. So it is very possible that internet access on the network, also you never know what kinda db software their using, if they connect to a local system or a system for the three disney parks. It would seem to me that it is highly unlikly that they don't have internet access, even if it's only for disney exec to look at the latest people flashing at splash mountain -LOWORBIT
It was probably the goatse.cx guy with Mickey Mouse ears Photoshopped in for effect.
"The advanced societies of the future will be driven by competing systems of psychopathology." -JG Ballard
Thanks for making me laugh. The thought of shredded Johny Doe brings tears to my eyes. More food for the musk ox at Animal Kingdom, I reckon.
"Plus, it allows "cast members" to offer guests goods and services anywhere, not restricted to where the credit card machine is at." That should be "...not restricted to where the credit card machine is at, asshole." Or did you not go to Harvard?
I wonder if they are using IPsec over the 802.11b network? I know I would.
The anti-semitism isn't becoming.
Do you HONESTLY think that the SS is going to chase down someone ripping people off for a couple of hundred dollars here or there?
Besides, with the numbers, all they'll do is purchase a handfull of things using a card that has some bogus name on the card that matches up with the bogus ID they have. Gasoline would be included with this because at that point because they just wouldn't be caring about it (If the Secret Service were all that special (I'm not saying that they don't do their jobs- it's just that there's not all that many of them...) there wouldn't BE much credit fraud- which isn't true at all.).
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
While I can't speak for Walt Disney World, Disneyland allows 'internet access' of a sort. If you head over to Innoventions in Tomorrowland, you'll find 'internet' kiosks. Unfortunately, they've ensured security by denying at the firewall level any site not on the GO network. (*.go.com)
If I'm not mistaken one of the engineers of the system tried warning the French government that it was possible to make a smart-card that could be fake; ie: not really "filled" with real money. Nobody would listen so he finally made one, bought some subway tickets and mailed them to the government proving that it could be done.
Then they threw him in jail for stealing the subway tickets. Anybody else remember this or have more info on it?
>They do search bags currently. ALL bags, even diaper bags.
Maybe, but not very well. For the past three of the four times I have been there since Sept 11 (my girlfriend and I have season passes) I was able to walk around the security stands without even being noticed. I cannot, for the life of me, figure out why they search the bags, yet do nothing to search the person. A couple of shootings at Disney would demoralize the US more than shootings pretty much anywhere else. An entire AK-47 can be broken down into pieces that fit in a pants leg or under a large sweatshirt. Everything of destructive power that is carried in a bag can be carried on one's person. Thay are pretty clueless about technology anyway. I often take in my nightvision scope (a lot of neat things to see in Space Mountain, Spaceship Earth, and Pirates of the Caribean) and didn't even get a second look yet they made me disassemble my Camelbak water pouch. I don't know if they would stop a laptop or not. One can claim it is for download pictures or showing Disney DVDs to the kids at dinner when they get tired and cranky.
Cave, wreck, and deep diver.
They sorda have public internet access .. at least in the food area of the DisneyQuest facility they have open access internet points .. using some horrible browser like thing .. think of a secured mozilla with a theme that takes 1/3 of the screen>
.. no slashdot .. no newgrounds.com .. no theonion.com
of course it's filtered
Satsuke
The inevitable consequence is that the network will be very insecure, so let us mess with the lyrics:
Well, it is a lot easier than saying "because 802.11b doesn't specify encryption at the physical level".
"What is the sound of one belly slapping?"
In Epcot, the small souvenir stands all had what looked like paper towel tubes wrapped in wire. Those were the 802.11 antennas, but they were there for over a year.
In Disney/MGM, some popcorn and hotdog stands still couldn't take charge cards as of last week, so I guess it's still being rolled out.
Obviously it is hard to carry around cash, wallets, etc in the water park. Now you can get a wristband with a barcode that gets associated with a credit card. Then you just get the armband scanned for your food/gift purchases. They will only scan intact bands and if you notice that your band is missing (it should not be too difficult) then go to the closest register and they can cancel the barcode immediately.
Cave, wreck, and deep diver.
Plus, it allows "cast members" to offer guests goods and services anywhere...
A ride with Minnie on Space Mountain... priceless.
// Alan Porter
Guess I'm a typical Slashdotter when I say I've used my laptop at Disney World before. I'm a local and spend quite a bit of time in the parks, especially Epcot. On more than one occasion I've hauled the laptop in when it's rainy and there's not much else to do. If you look, you'll find access points at kiosks all over the place. Look harder and you'll find RJ-45 jacks too. Fear of the mouse police has stopped me from plugging in, but I must admit this artice is almost an invite. Too bad I've got a Cisco Aironet card, which AirSnort doesn't support. Don't care about CC numbers, but they've got some cool stuff on the intranet. They're searching all bags after the 11th, and with this article, I don't think bringing the laptop would be such a great idea anymore. As mentioned in another comment, they used to have unrestricted access at more than one exhibit in Innoventions, including Apple. Nowadays the only way to get access there is if you know someone at the IBM exhibit. Access at the computer centers at the resorts is dialup and priced like highway robbery, though I heard they're planning to get DSL. You can get access at the Wonderland Cafe at DisneyQuest, but that's protected by MS Proxy Server. Disney's been trying out some high tech stuff recently, like palm-esque GPS navigators at Animal Kingdom and blinky LED buttons triggered by IR. Even better, they're planning interactive "Park Pal" toys, with over 100 trigger points in the Magic Kingdom alone.
I'm a local to WDW, and I currently am working for the mouse. I read in the article that they were saying they would use the palm pilots with networking to call up shuttles (aka buses). Well, not surprising, they tried to roll this out last spring and it failed, miserably. They started at about 8 in the morning, and within ten minutes the whole system crashed. Bus wait times went up to an hour, and several GSMs (Guest Service Managers) were promptly brought to the ground and pummeled mercilessly by guests. After a few weeks, the costs got too high so they canned all the non-essential people involved with the project. Figures.
I don't know about everyone else but when I went to Disney World a few years ago I was dying for Internet access. I had not bought my laptop then and looked everywhere for someplace to log onto the Internet while I was there. I have to be connected where-ever I go and if Disney had an Internet cafe, even if the price was expensive (like everything else), I would have used it no doubt.
:)
Anyone else feel this way or am I just too big of a geek?
i installed a wireless network at palm springs highschool. it was for the portables so that they could have internet access. downloads moved from 80-90k and it was like having wireless dsl. security is great since they have to have the right wireless nic in the first place, second they have to have the software installed, third they must have the encryption code, and fourth they must have internet explorer properly configured to even acces the internet. its great walking around with a laptop and still being connected. i even did all the hardware install my self and lined up the shotguns with a laser pen light from radio shack and got a 94% signal strength which is 14% higher than real world situations. its been up for a little over a year now and is still working with maximum efficiency. Its not hard to set up either in fact since its wireless im pretty sure the guy who installed it at disneyland probbably thought it was a snap. you just need power and place to mount it. there are a few more steps to it but its a peice of cake. and once you have it set up right everyone is a happy camper. If you want to set this kind of stuff up you can practically go down to bestbuy and compusa and buy the equipment for youre home. although the proffessional equipment is better quality and usually state of the art, its still the same concept. if you set it up at home you would say is that all there is to it. plus and disneyworld they probbably didnt want to tear up the ground and buildings to install a regular network. wirless is a way cheaper solution because you save a ton of money on labor. it probbably cost them 1/4 of what it would cost if they did a regular network since cat5 only goes 333 ft. max even though ive gotten it to go alot farther. and fibre optics is way to expensive.
look guys first someone is going to have to pay to get into the park and walk around everywhere suspiciously even to find out what equipment they are using. i would put it up in the ceiling out of site my self. then they need the software. and while there they would have to find out what software they use and break the encryption code then once they did that then they might have a chance. i personnaly wouldnt waste my time and money doing that. id rather be enjoying myself. if i wanted to get into there system i would do it from home. anyways a wirless network isnt anymore secure than walking up to a free rj port and connecting youre laptop and messing around.