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Is Hacking Cars a Thing of the Past?
"Ever since electronic ignitions, and especially ones controlled by computers, it seems the "hackability" and user-maintainability of cars has been declining. Your neighborhood grease monkey can't do much to a modern car without a bunch of electronic gear interfacing to the car's computer. It's almost a little anti-competitive.
Carbeurators, and the other mechanical systems which were fairly standard and visible and self-evident, really seem to be the equivalent of "open source", while the new computer-based systems seem to be more closed and proprietary. I know in the early days of cars with computers, there were third party ROM upgrades for performance tweaking; I'm guessing that's falling by the wayside more and more, as these systems get more and more complex.
It almost seems like a Microsoft-like statement, to tell you they're doing all of this to reduce theft, while really they're doing it to ensure you are forced into coming back to their dealerships..."
Is to make more money for the dealers. I think that we are moving into many diffrent incompatible car computers that all are worked diffrently so a mechanic cant service more then 1 or 2 diffrent types. Bringing about the death of independent mechanics and the rise of the dealerships. Then again I could be paranoid.
Does anyone even use those things anymore?
I mean, let's face it, when you hear a car alarm go off, do you even *LOOK* in that direction? I know I don't.
And even if I saw someone with a jimmy, the hood up, wires sticking out and a
All car alarms do now is annoy people.
Oh and give kids a something to throw snowballs at during winter
- Z
There's a fine line between genius and stupidity. Genius has limits.
well, I, for one, don't mind losing that kind of 'freedom and control' if it helps the deployment of ignition technologies to keep non-safe drivers out of cars: breathalizer, driver licence check, etc
.. well, lets just say that the average human is a little too attached to their car in the first place :)
to me, it is absolutely criminal that cars are not mandated to have at least some level of drunkdriving prevention. dunno if that would get in the way of alternative security systems, but if it does
"Old man yells at systemd"
Honestly, I think the security is worth it. No one pays attention to car alarms going off anymore. My brand spanking new 2002 Taurus won't start unless you use a special key from the dealership with the computer chip in it. While the car came with 2 keys, it will cost me $80 each for additional keys.
But then, I've never felt the need for a remote starter anyway. I've gotten used to walking outside in my pajamas in the winter to start the car so it can warm up while I get ready for work.
Besides, installing a remote car starter isn't my idea of a real hack. How is that any more of a "hack" than installing a new car radio? Obviously, you weren't able to bypass the security system, so you're not much of a hacker.
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
Really the only thing you need from the key is the VATS chip off of it. You really don't need a functioning key to make things work. Electric current goes through the chip, and if the car doesn't receive the correct change in current, the car doesn't start. Requiring a key with VATS doesn't do much for the professional car theif or the theif with access to a dealership with a corrupt car parts guy (imagine that).
Reb
It's your car. You can do what you want with it. If you don't wanna put out the effort to hack in the features you want with a level of security that you want, that's not the manufacturer's fault, it's your fault for being lazy. ;)
;)
Your alternative option is to buy a car thirty years old (air cooled VW's come highly reccomended) and just set up a servo to short circuit the wires you need short circuited, and presto, instant remote start.
Just don't leave the car in gear when to go to bed at night; use the emergency brake.
I tried installing NetBSD on my car last week, only to find out the transmission in my Yugo is undocumented, and they won't tell me how to bootstrap the thing without having me sign an NDA first.
It's a shame, it really is.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
Anything that is drop in simple (like a remote car starter package) isn't a hack. Working around this "feature" is hacking the car. I only assume that the author never considering hooking up the car to a serial line and starting to investigate the I/O.
I've hacked my motorcycles to make things work contrary to the original design on many occasions. Removing parts I didn't want that sucked way power, adding new circuits for auxillary devices, splice here, chop there, etc. Here's the important part, when I've asked other people, the typical response was "Gee, I've never done that." so we figured it out. Wanna know how long it took for someone to figure out that a '96 Kawasaki KLR hand guard could be fit onto a Suzuki SV650 with just a bit of machining? Now that was a hacker at work!
Jesus, this is on the level of whining that you can't use the windshield wipers from your old car (which were brand new!) on a new car you just bought.
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
Why do you want a remote control starter in the first place? This isn't even a case of lazniess, you *have* to sit in the car in order to do anything useful with it. And you say you feel uncomfortable about leaving a key in your unit in order to make it functional, but if they are already in your car and that far anyway, what would they need your *key* for? Starting the car? Well, if they are that far in they would have hot-wired if you didn't have a system in place.
Besdies, a remote control car starter just sounds like a *really* bad idea. No benefit, all kinds of possible security breaches. You want to make your car easier to steal for no good reason?
I'll admit that the fancy electronics are pushing out the really small-scale mechanics, but it is by no means microsoft tactics. They want to improve cars, make them harder to steal, more convenient and efficient. Yes, you may have a bit more proprietary stuff in each car, but I'll wager that even if the accessories are produced by a single company now, in the future other companies will have the circuitry for the different models just like they do forconventional parts.
This is one of the most oddball ideas I've seen on Slashdot.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
If you want to protect your car from being started without a key, you need to make sure the key is physically there. Hence, no remote-starting. The way around this would seem to be buying the car with a remote-starter and anti-theft, or else buying one without both and then installing technology to do both.
I don't see why this means "hacking your car" is a thing of the past. It just means you need an anti-theft device that's more compatible.
The chip in the key is required to trigger the anti-theft system, but the key itself isn't needed. You could cut the metal tongue off the key, rendering it useless for actually turning the starter, while the chip would still work.
You would, of course, be essentially disabling that part of the anti-theft system, but thieves now have ways around it anyway. If the key profile is identical to pre-chipped versions, it would also mean you could run your car with a non-chipped key, which is a lot easier to fit on your keychain.
ok, I've only shared this idea with friends and relatives, but I'll make it public now: a 'screaming car alarm.' Yes, a recorded scream of a woman would play should a car alarm be tripped. Now, that should get attention...
"There ought to be limits to freedom"
Officer I dont know what happened, I was driveing down the road and my windsheild turned blue with a bunch of words on it. Then there was big dent on my fender, but no other cars were around.
Ah, so it's nice to know that you car is secure
with a fancy key required to start it, and yet
you leave the thing running in your driveway,
while you get ready for work!
There's some irony here somewhere, I'm sure.
AC
As the once proud owner of a 1966 Mustang, I remember what it was like to mod the hell out of my car. Now my wife has a Civic and I have a 4Runner (hey, we live in the mountains, so 4WD is a MUST on at least one vehicle). Modern cars are a LOT quiter, ride better, get better fuel economy, and are better for the environment. Equivalent sized (outside dimentions) vehicles actually have MORE room inside them now, more luxuries (all but the cheapest cars now have power windows/locks/disc brakes/etc, are much safer, etc, etc.
All of this comes at a price. You now nearly need to be a rocket scientist (or at least an automotive engineer) to work on them, but IMO, the price is worthwhile. Meanwhile, my 5.0L V8 '66 Mustang used to get about 16 MPG and had about 220HP, yet you can buy a 4-cylinder Subaru WRX with 225HP (Turbo) which gets ~27MPG, and will let you walk away in a crash.
Yes, cars have gotten harder to work on, but they've also gotten safer, lighter, less polluting, and more luxurious. If you want to tinker with your vehicle, buy a 2-door Civic and mod it up, or buy a classic to restore like I did. Or get a kit, and build it from scratch.
I mean.. why break into cars, hotwire them, and drive them off. The smart thief would save up and get himself a tow truck. The ONLY person who would pay any attention at all is the owner. The alarm could be going off and nobody would give it a second glance. Chances are good, nobody would ever even get a plate #. You could steal the car in plain sight, and never hear a peep about it.
No antitheft system in the world will help against a dedicated theif. The most effective system would probably be to just remove the distributor cap, or a kludge to disconnect the battery easily. No car thief is gonna spend time under the hood finding out why the car won't start. Of course, you get bit on convienence issues. But you'll never have to concern yourself with car theft.
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
As for third-party ROM upgrades, these things are falling by the wayside because, among other reasons, most onboard computers use EEPROMS now, and when most people monkey with their engines they just wind up wrecking the timing and trashing the performance anyway.
And there's not reason to compare everything you dislike to Microsoft. That radio keylock is a Honda option, nobody forced you to buy it, nobody is keeping you from removing that option from your car, and so on. A little time with a pair of diags and a soldering iron will remove the problem forever.
As for leaving a spare key installed, what makes you think that's less secure than installing a remote starter? I built a little gadget not six months ago. It's a lot of fun. I go into a mall parking lot and press a button. A couple of 555 timers start cranking... and a few seconds later so do all the tricked-out imports in the parking lot. Granted, I still can't get in the vehicles, but I sure can start 'em up.
In conclusion, if you want to play with your engine, or your ignition system, or whatever, buy a car you know how to work on. If you buy a 2002 model and can't figure out how to monkey with it, don't blame the auto manufacturer for knowing more about cars than you.
REM Old programmers don't die. They just GOSUB without RETURN.
Most of the old car work was thing like points, and carberators. Both are gone, replaced by something that is not only more reliable, but easier to controll. A good hacker can replace the comptuer on his car with something tuned to his likeing, and has more information doing it. Old cars never had O2 sensors to help you figgure out what the right mixture setting on the carbrator, new cars have that sensor, and the ability to change things in REAL TIME for the best mixture. (for some definition of best understanding the emissions/proformance/milage trade off)
Sure it is more work, but then turning a screw on the carb wasn't a hack it was just easy to do, and needed to be done often enough that everyone could do it. Today there are no screws to turn so the real work is a real hack.
There was an article about this topic in the Boston Sunday Globe this week. But the author of the article doesn't necessarily cry over the recently announced demise of cars like the Camaro and the Firebird. In order to get another 50 horsepower out of one of those beasts meant "boring out the cylinders, tinkering with valves, changing pistons ... a greasy, lengthy job." With the new "tuner cars" all you've got to do is drop in a $500 tuner chip.
Is it that much more of a security risk as having a remote starter for the car? Having a remote starter for a car always seemed to me as an security risk in itself. Why is it needed? It is not as though the car will park itself for you and pick you up at the door.
Fight Spammers!
Now, this is hacking cars.. ;)
Gentoo Sucks
Computers making modern cars un-hackable? That's a bit far-fetched. For just about any car there's dozens of custom mods for them that can be installed by any mechanic. There are still 3rd-party performance chips you can put in. You can still change just about everything in a car, the only thing different is that it's a little harder to do. You can go get all the computers that a dealer uses and do all the tweaks yourself. Yeah it's more expensive, but so are cars and so are the parts inside them.
And I wouldn't go around comparing cars from the past to open-source and modern cars to microsoft - that's essentially saying open-source software, though infinitely hackable, is inefficient, outdated, and insecure. Drawing a parellel between Microsoft (closed-source) and modern cars would in effect say MS software is clean, efficient, secure, and performs well out of the box.
If modern cars are less "hackable" than older cars, why are there thousands of custom shops dotting the country, hooking up modern cars? Why are there still car shows for people to show off their mods (some of which leaving the original car nearly unrecognizable)?
Cars aren't getting less hackable, you just have to do it differently than before.
I absolutely agree here. There was a time when doing your own basic car maintentance was pretty easy to figure out on your own. Every car worked in pretty much the same way, and if you had even a little help you could do your own basic engine, heating/cooling and electrical work.
Anything you couldn't do in your driveway you could do in a pay-per-day gararge with rented tools.
Do those even exist anymore? I've read about them but I've never seen even one (in my short life = )
-q
On the other hand, the aftermarket is keeping up with the electronicification of cars quite well, from what I've read. Yes, there are a lot of electronics in cars, but that simply means you either work with them or around them now.
In your case, you couldn't install a remote starter because of your antitheft system. So? Perhaps you should choose a different system (if available) that won't interfere with $50 off-the-shelf Pepboys remote starting systems. Yes, you didn't have to make this choice before. Yes, before you could do it all yourself. Well, welcome to the future.
What it really boils down to is that it is still possible to hack your car (as you put it), but the effort and price associated with doing so has increased. That's all. Basing your assumption purely on your own single experience is hardly scientific.
I recommend that you pick up an issue of Sport Compact Car sometime, and see what they're doing. They're not exactly the remote-starter types, but they are doing just about everything under the sun imaginable to everyday vehicles, including full standalone engine management. Yes, it's expensive, but it's most certainly a very cool hack.
Mr. Ska
I disagree. A feature that requires the key to be present to start the car is useful to almost every end user. It can help keep your car from being stolen. It is true that it inconvieniences a small percentage of users who want to fiddle but overall it is a positve thing.
On the other hand Microsoft (and lots of other companies) tend to add features that are not good for the user. One example of this is the XP authentication nightmare. Another (non MS example) is the SDMI. How about DVD region coding. These are all 'features' that make the product less useful.
I think that's an important difference. It's the difference between a feature you don't like and a feature that no one likes.
Average American might be a bit more accurate. I wonder what percentage of humans own automobiles.
Yup, lessee. Car running a little sluggish? Pop the hood, spin that old 10mm box-end, twist the distributor clockwise a few degrees, now I'm humming right along. Oops, getting a little hot - turn a screw on the carb - now I'm running so rich I can smell the gasoline in the exhuast.
I drive past the smog-check stations and scoff.
There has to be a reason why lots of people don't mind putting the time and effort into maintaining 40 year old econoboxes.
Maybe because everything that's been offered since then has been lacking.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
That person wouldn't exactly be a car thief, now, would he? He'd be a CD thief.
There isn't much that's going to deter busting out windows. Hell, if someone really really wanted to do it without getting busted, a pair of rubber gloves, a slingshot, and a rock would suffice. Then they wouldn't even have to be next to it, and the evidence left behind is negligible.
Car antitheft systems are designed to protect the car itself from physically being driven from one point to another without the owner's consent. Whether that be by immobilization or by making the car more attention getting (lights, horn, etc), its main purpose is to ensure the car stays in one spot.
Tow truck drivers, those are the guys you need to look out for.
That stupid little quote caps off the dumbest story I've seen on /. in MONTHS. He's so deep in his own ignorance that he figured the only way to save his silly little rant was to add a "your rights online" buzzphrase. "Honda is just like *Microsoft!*".
This dumbass is upset because a key is required to start the car. Uh, brainiac: that's the whole PURPOSE of keys. Honda is finally doing keys RIGHT, and you're bitching about it.
um, when the law states that you're not allowed to drink and drive, how is providing a mechnism to prevent it taking away from a freedom? you are free to talk, think, say (for the most part) whatever you like. Information is free, which is why MS shouldn't be able to control the info on your computer. You can't kill anyone with it, and MS certainly isn't a body who has an interest in monitoring or controlling your data for the good of the population. (there, I humoured you)
/act/ freely. A society must always set boundries on behavior, as it is truely the only means by which we can inflict pain (and/or help another person) However, communicating ideas does not infringe on the physical health of your fellow citizens; each person must interpret your ideas and /act/ in reaction to it in a way that is inline with the laws and regulations of the society you participate in. It's called the 'good will' of the community; you can think or say anything you want, but you have a social contract to participate in society, abide by its laws, and, if supported by its citizens, submit to various types of physical restrictions designed to prevent casual attempts to infract serious offences.
Are the metal scanners at airports taking away your freedom? Duh, you don't have to take a plane, just like you don't have to own or use a car.
You make us liberals look bad by confusing your right to communicate and think freely with your lack of right to
Thus, having a breathalizer ignition is not giving up freedom if the majority of people in the society (if its a democracy) support it.
"Old man yells at systemd"
Hacking your car is still alive and well; there are certainly some challenges (cruise control, security systems, etc.). I was on a few mailing lists for hacking the Toyota Prius... there's a Yahoo! group dedicated to it, and the people on there are amazing. There's an LCD display in the Prius, and people are attaching it to night-vision, DVD players, rear-view and side-view cameras, you name it. Plus there's tons of info on hiking up gas mileage, increasing battery capacity and all sorts of cool things.
As with all hacking, it CAN be done, and if someone hasn't done it yet, there are certainly people willing to help you figure out how.
Toodles,
---Chip Lynch
I don't really see any improvements in a car that has a remote starter.
What is it good for? Most of the gadgets that enable you to warm up your car before you get in (standing heater / a/c) will come with a dedicated "engine" which is essentially a small combustion engine hooked up to the primary fuel circuit and starts at a preprogrammed time or catches a remote signal to start immediate heating (like when you don't know exactly when you will leave). This engine will then run with very little fuel and pump all the heat into the car. Absolutely no need to fire up 200+ hp for some heat. I think the same systems also exist in the states, over here in Germany the company "Webasto" is making these very successfully.
The remote starte reminds me of a story I read in Ralph "Sonny" Bargers book "Hells Angels". Back in the 60's or 8ß's there obviously was a cop who had a reputation with the Angels for being a tight investigator. He used to remote start his car (which was parked in his driveway) by standing far away from the car in a "secure" spot before getting in. Obviously afraid of car bombs. One morning when he started, the car roared up as usual. Too bad somebody had planted a bomb right in the "secure" spot where he used to stand when remoting the baby. He did not survive to tell anyone about it.
+++ath0
There are tradeoffs in everything. If you want the remote start ability you give up some of the security.
As far as leaving an entire key in place I guess that depends on the car and the kit your using. My Acura has one of the mentioned keys and when I looked into a remote start for it, I was told I needed to buy a spare key which would be disassembled to get just the coded portion out. I decided it wasn't for me.
But the point about cars being less hackable is valid. For years manufacturers have been making it harder to replace stock radios, and if you want to retain steering wheel controls your going to need lots of electrical tape and redbull.
I think Mercedes Benz has taken this to an entirely new level. New MB vehicles are incredibly difficult to steal thanks to their code hopping IR keys, so much so that the theft portion of insurance rates on them are down right cheap (which is good). But forget putting a remote starter in your brand new benz. Last time I tried counting there are 97 buttons within reach of the driver in the S class (I counted knobs as one switch even if they had more than one selectable position). All of this runs through a central computer in the car so basically if you want a different stereo system you better know german and feel like dumpster diving at MB headquarters.
Mercedes has a integrated cell phone system that comes with voice recognition. It uses a standard motorola timeport phone, identical in every sense except the firmware. Yet if I plug in my old timeport the car refuses to recognize it. Mercedes apparently thinks that the $87K you spend on the car with the phone isn't enough, they want the extra $450 for every phone you want to use in the car.
I'm currently trying to figure out how to get a copy of the firmware off the timeport that comes with the benz system so that I can put it on my original timeport.
This is quite sad, among manufacturers there is zero incentive or requirement to play nicely. I understand that they want to protect profit margins but its damn near predatory. There was an article on wired about some company offering a in car voice recognition system that works with bluetooth enabled cell phones. Great idea, too bad bluetooth is a technological unicorn and car manufacturers are bound to shut these guys out of the business.
-- Button up, your ignorance is showing
You want a secure, programmable, remote start for your car with a voice UI and reporting features?
Have a child. They also mow lawns and do dishes.
Can't patent them though, my parents have prior art...
Just wait till some crappy band steals your nic.
Carburetors were amazingly elegant little mechanical devices, but they were anything but precise. Computerization of cars has permitted hundred-fold reductions in CO2 and NOx emissions (and less dramatic improvements in fuel economy). Safety advances like anti-lock brakes and active suspensions also wouldn't be possible without computerization.
In an industry that had seen very few true innovations for 70 years (disc brakes being just about the only automotive hardware invented since the 30s), computers have completely revolutionized just about every system in an autombile. As a result, cars are cleaner, more efficient, more reliable, more comfortable and safer than would have been possible with entirely mechanical systems.
You seem to argue there are fewer people customizing their cars. I think there are just fewer shade-tree mechanics doing what's now unnecessary maintenance: Replacing points and distributors that don't exist anymore, spark plugs that now last 100k miles, adjusting timing that's automatically adjusted, etc.
What about the hot-rodders who customized their cars? I'd argue there are just as many of them as there ever were. The modifications just require a different skill set than they used to, and the cars are Civics and Integras instead of Novas and Mustangs.
If you want to get into customizing your car, there's plenty you can still do from high-tech "superchips" to good old-fashioned intake & exhaust mods. Just pull your head out of that 20-year-old Chilton's manual if you want to get serious about souping up a late-model car.
I love hacking cars. Saddly here in the USA there is less of a modern-car hacking cultrure. In the USA we've *mostly* got old hot-rodders with carbed V8's, and kids with big-wing/big-exhaust otherwise-stock imports. Not many people are doing MODERN performacne hacking, but there are some.
Many other countries have a real strong culture in this area though. For an example, go to Autospeed, an Australian site where they post weekly articles about auto performance and electronics hacking. Australia is a real hot-spot for this stuff. It doesn't matter that the auto manufacturers are making more complex and advanced products - it just promotes the creation of more brilliant hacks.
If you're interested in programable engine management, adding electonic accessories, etc. all you have to do is dig a little and you'll find a whole world of resources. Just like Tivo, DirectTV, Audrey, or anything else - If you build it people will hack it.
-=-=-=-=- osjedi uses Debian GNU/Linux. -=-=-=-=-
That doesn't mean much though. Garage doors aren't replaced as often as cars, I suspect that many people that bought the very first generation of garage door openers still have them installed.
I'm sure these sound like a really good idea to you, but do you -honestly- think they will do anything good? You do realize that such devices -could- possibly cause problems?
You put more stuff into a device and you increase the chances that it will break. I don't have any education the area of engineering but I assume this is a very basic principle. The more complex it is, the more likely it's going to break. Do you -really- want to be late for work one day when your drunk-driving auto-detection thingy goes haywire? Probably not.
Do you really think somebody won't figure out a way to get past these things? Grab an air, compressor, fill a balloon up a ways, perhaps heat it to a reasonable temperature and let the damned breathalizer analyse that. Fire up your car and off you go. Whoopee. Sure, you could make the thing more complex; perhaps get a very preciese thermometer in the thing to make sure your breath is 98.6 degrees or at least very close. Now, mom has to take her child to school, has a fever of 101 degrees and can't start the car. Wonderful.
What if I'm loaded off my ass, and feel like changing my own in -my own backyard-. I don't think there should be any technological measure in place to keep me from pulling my car up onto blocks and doing my thing. Sure, it ain't safe, but it's my life.
GPS Systems to track my speed? Bull. There's no way law enforcement is ever going to get their act together enough to actually build a database of all the roads with all the necessary speed requirements. If I'm ever sold a car with this kind of crap in it I'll make damned sure it's not functioning as soon as I can. There -are- times where speeding is warranted. I don't want my car shutting down on me when I -really- need to get somewhere fast. I'll refrain from such examples -- use your imagination.
So, should we make these types of things mandatory in cars? What if it's detected that mine is broken, accidentally or not? Do I -really- want to be labled as an offender or criminal because my GPS system got splashed with water and I'm unaware of that? Sure, you can get ticketed now for having defects in vehicles -- but they're defects that are visible to the eye. Broken windshields, tailights, etc. Any idiot can tell when those are broken. Do we really want to include a GPS calibration routine in a pre-drive checkout for the average consumer? Hah... no.
> Since when does a dealer want to faciltiate you *not* having to take the car back to them for sservice?
Since when do dealerships make decisions in the design of engine components? There are many reasons for why cars are designed the way they are, but they do not include forcing you to go back to the dealership for service. The giveaway is that the auto manufacturers don't make any money from a dealership's service department (other than for parts, and most independent mechanics will use factory parts for most repair jobs anyway) so there's no economic drive for carmakers to design in such things.
P.S. The "module" necessary to reset the service light on a BMW was also referred to in some circles as a "screwdriver", which can be had from select non-BMW vendors, I believe.
Virg
If your car is too complicated to customize, maybe you should consider souping-up some other things around the house.
(Oh boy, FINALLY a topic I know something about!)
I'd MUCH RATHER have a GOOD factory security system than a botched aftermarket one. (I've had 4 cars that had aftermarket systems installed by previous owners. ALL of them have caused more headaches than the 'security' they provided.)
Having any kind of security system will not likely prevent the really serious fella trying to seal your car. While you CAN buy LOJACK et al, they pretty much ensure you get back the bits and pieces you DON'T care about. By the time somebody recovers the professionally stolen car, all the nifty doodads have been stripped or broken.
I own Corvettes. (That my, ahem, other hobby) One's an 89 and the other's a 98 (OBD I and III) yeah they're more difficult to work on than the 76 Pontiac I _just_ got rid of, but no more so than working on computers. Often, that 'technological B$' folks complain about actually HELPS in diagnosing the problem.
If you aren't willing to spend time learning how to work on something, you probably oughtn'ta go at it uneducated.
As far as installing the remote starter, it didn't sound like you wanted it bad enough. IMHO, the one thing it MIGHT give you (remote starting) isn't worth the things you MIGHT get (wiring issues, intermittent gremlins, connections that don't AGE well.)
Honestly, a Nerd complaining about complexity on Slashdot...who'da thunk?
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
Many car manufacturers are moving to using industry standard buses and protocols (CAN and a couple of SAE standards) for internal communication. There is a lot of "wiggle" room for people to come up with Gizmos that attach to this hardware and do things the manufacturer never intended. For example.. many people love to have a tach, but many dashs lack them. The tach information is available on the computer/diagnostic bus, how about designing a simple PIC circuit to read the RPM message and display it on a LED display.
Lets face it.. hardware hacking in all its forms has gotton harder and harder for the last 20 years as more custom PLC and ASIC devices appear and Surface mount becuase the standard.
If you really want a challenge, convert your old gas powered car to electric. You'll end up with an extremely simple system you can work on yourself (only one moving part in an electric motor and no need for complex computers and emission controls) as well as a car that will get you to work in the worst weather, without the need to warm it up. (Just jump in and go, heat is electric and instantanous) and DC motors can really hual ass. Oh.. and its non-polluting, so you can feel smug about never having to get a smog check again.
C'mon this is hardly an amazing revelation. Cars have been getting more and more computerized and difficult for the average Joe to repair for at least the last 15 years. Open the hood on any car from *1990* and you'll find a big black box with wires running out of it. It controls the fuel injection, the engine tests, the digital controls, you name it. You don't want to be messing around with those cars, except maybe to change the oil.
But how is this different than any other electronic consumer device? Nobody hacks up their PC motherboard or DVD player innards. And nobody complains about it either, not even the crazies who think that every corporate manuver is an encroachment on freedom of speech.
First of all, you are a puss. If you are installing one of those things, you have an automatic. Second, real mods are not 'installing a remote starter'. It's squeezing a big freakin' engine into a little dinky car. (Saw a Chevy big block crammed into a Nash Met a few years ago in HotRod).
Second, I'd prefer a v-8 with rear drive. But with a family, a Mustang/Camaro doesn't cut it. So I'll be driving FWD I-4 or v-6 engines with tons of electronic controls.
Now, for just a handful of engines with which I am slightly familiar:
Zetec I-4 (ford focus): turbos, superchargers, nitrous.
Duratec v-6 (ford contour): superchargers (for some models), nitrous.
Honda I-4 (civics, CRV's): block and head upgrades, turbos, superchargers, more handling kits and brake kits than you can shake a stick at.
VW 4's and 6's: see above.
See, there's tons of stuff available for certain cars. Real stuff. And of course, if you like remote starters, neon trim, and 100w headlights, you can always go to JC Whitney.
And if you want traditional cars, they are available aplenty. 60's Mustangs and Camaros. 80's BMWs. And if you like old iron, there are tons of component (kit) cars available. Any ford up to WWII. Almost any Chevy of the same vintage. I've seen kits to put a '55 chevy on a late model Caprice.
The enthusiast magazines have been asking this question for years. And the answer has always come back a resounding 'NO'.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
Comparing modern computer-controlled cars to closed-source software is a bit unfair, really. Modern cars are VERY hackable, if you know what you're doing and don't mind voiding parts of your warranty. The car-modding game's the same, but the rules have changed is all. If you understand the rules, there is little you cannot mod on a new car.
:-)
To use my own car as an example, there is a program that would allow me to modify the fuel tables, ignition tables and other operational parameters on the on-board computer using a standard PC (program: LS1Edit). This acheives the same thing as playing with the distributor dwell and carb mixture on an older engine, and then some.
Or, for the less adventurous, Hypertech makes a device that allows you to apply "macros" to the onboard computer, doing the same thing as LS1Edit, but to a lesser degree.
Further, modern cars (with the appropriate computer hacks) still respond quite nicely to the old-school tricks: headers, camshafts, intakes, strokers, blowers, etc. It's like having the best of both worlds - the reliability and economy of computer control, and the performance and "hackability" of old-school tricks.
It all comes down to learning new rules to play the same old game.
A good idea, with a few warnings. First, some manufacturers store the chip in the tongue, so cutting it off would simply destroy the key, Also, the chipped part of the key could be inserted, and then the car could be started with a screwdriver (the key part ensures the lock cylinder will turn easily, and the chip starts the car). With those warnings in mind, have at those cutters!
Virg
Auto hacking isn't dead, it's mutated and evolved. No longer can you rebuild your carburator with a Swiss Army knife, like you could on old VW Bugs.. No longer can you do those little tweaks that let you eek a few extra HP's out of your 'Cuda..
Similarly the computer hackery of yore has passed from sight, only to be replaced with OC madness, case modification, heavy-duty server setups in one's broom closet, and so on..
It used to be that hackers would race hard-drives across table tops, and race Mustangs down the main drag. Now, the script-kiddies and rice-boys put skins on their virus generators and Acura Type R stickers on their Dodge Neons!!!
Flash has replaced content. It's all about appearances, and who cracks first.. Neon light kits under the chasis of either your Dell or your Civic warn that you are clearly a force to be reckoned with.. A 40 pound spoiler and a muffler the size of a coffee can are the automotive equivalent of running an animated desktop hack or semi-transparent windows - performance be damned!!
Just as in computing, auto-hacking has simply grown, and become so widely exposed that it's attracted it's own brand of poseur. There's the wankers who put stickers on their cars, because race cars have stickers, so stickers turn mom's old beater into a renegade from Indy.. There's the wankers who assign unique audio events to every window action and have true-color, animated mouse pointers.
Then there are guys who rewire their own auto audio systems, making sure the trunk DOES NOT rattle when they turn the music up, and those who put performance parts in and then actually USE them in motocross events. These are the overclockers and liquid-coolers of the auto-hacking world.
Take a look at the Honda Insight, and note the very cool side-mirror to LCD screen hack.. There is still auto-hacking.. But like real PC hacking, it takes effort, perseverence and creativity.
The REAL jabber has the user id: 13196
What you do today will cost you a day of your life
My Passat has the same 1.8T engine that is used from Jettas/Golfs all the way up to Audi TTs. The computer chip that controls the engine is programmed to de-tune it compared with the Audis. Some of the things the chip does is control maximum turbo pressure, etc. Considering the price difference, I guess they don't want performance equality between VW and Audi. My Passat only gets 150hp, whereas the TT gets 225hp from the same engine. Seeing as some many components are shared with Audi, the car can easily take these changes. Another common hack is getting the tiptronic transmission re-programmed to modify the shift points and the time it takes to shift.
There is a big market in reprogramming or replacement ECM chips... I can easily get another 40hp and perhaps better millege by going down this route. The hp can be increased further with turbo replacements, etc, but apparently, you start having to make other big changes for the car to handle 200+hp.
Take a look around http://www.clubb5.com/ for some ideas... these B5 Passats are very hackable. Whether it's just plugging a laptop into the VAG-COM thing and re-programming the locks, or wiring in new tools like The Alien, or putting in Xenon lights and the Audi sport suspension.
Two things: first, some keys have the brains on the tongue, not the head. Second, virtually every key has the interface on the tongue, so cutting it off leaves you with a chip that can't talk to the antitheft system.
Virg
You probably live in too cold a climate and/or don't have a garage. I would suggest moving far enough south that frost on your windows during the day isn't a problem. In the morning you car will be in your warm garage, so no problem then either...
:-)
Believe me, I know your pain, I just moved 900 miles south of where I used to live. I am getting spoiled awfully quickly with upper 70 degree temps in December... I don't think you could get me back up north for anything now.
But all the good 'Riceboy mods' are only available for Hondas..... You can wire the trunk release button on the remote starter to the cleverly mounted fire extinguisher to put out the electrical fire caused by improper installation of the car starter
When will automakers offer the ability to set options? When we make them, of course.
I personally hate the lighting systems that act like your mom. I don't want my lights on during the day. I also want the dome light to go off immediately when I shut off the car, unless I intervene. I also don't want the @$%# locks to lock every time the car goes off->on and vice versa.
Add to that the ability to turn on/off the chipped key requirement and whatever else isn't absolutely required for the car to run.
Would it be so hard to allow the owner to chose?
Anyone remember when all the chips in your computer were 0.300" DIPs, no surface mount, easy to glom probes onto and desolder and replace? All standard TTL, no ASICs to speak of?
Anyone remember when it took 100 chips to make a motherboard?
As much as I miss old-sk00l hardware-hacking, the fact is that you couldn't build an Athlon system with a GF3 Ti500 without ASICs and other "hard-to-hack" parts.
Likewise, you can't have new-sk00l things like onboard GPS, in-dash map views, collision-avoidance, heads-up displays, and EFI on your car without some "hard-to-hack" parts.
Cars may not be as much fun as they used to be, but on the whole, they're quieter, more efficient, and more usable. You win some, you lose some.
It's a car. You want to be a motorhead, go get a 70's chevy and do whatever you want to it.
Personally I really don't consider buying an off the shelf add-on kit to be hacking. Hacking is something creative that hasn't been done before. Only the original person to hack something is creative, everybody else that performs the same hack is just a script kiddie, er, a wrench kiddie or whatever the automotive equivalent would be.
If you're just going to complain about a product you didn't research further than the outside packaging, then too bad. Nobody said all car parts are compatible. Auto companies are allowed to create their own devices that don't work well with others.
I've lost count. Can anybody remind me how many stupid Ask Slashdot articles have been posted in the last month?
A company called Oasis Semiconductor is working on the "MOST" system. Which provides a fiber optic communication system in cars. The idea is to replaced the copper-based CAN bus with fiber. The added benefit, that they see, is total system integration. In their prime example, the CD player becomes nothing more than a CD-ROM. The data is sent directly to the Amp in the audio system where its decoded and played. This way any system on the car can now have audio output. It also makes it easier to integrate cell phone system into cars. My car as one of those Cellport system installed in it. Which is nice, but if I want a different radio, I'm screwed. With Oasis's system, I could put any radio I want (that supports MOST) in, since its not tied to my cell phone.
Currently some Mercedes Benz models and *maybe* BMW use MOST. Though, they are only using 4 devices on the chain. Mercedes can, however, at least say they have a fiber optic network in their car.
if you lock your wheels, (turn them all the way to one side) so that the wheel can't move, tow trucks can't move it...
.kb
Two Wrongs Don't Make A Right-- But They Make Me Feel A Whole Lot Better
1) Maybe it's an automatic!
2) In some places, e.g. the Canadian prairies where a lot of people already leave their car plugged into an engine-block heater in winter, a remote starter is a great idea for gettting the car warm before you get in it. Trust me, it's not fun getting into a -30C car and having to wipe the frost off the inside. It takes 20 minutes before you can even consider taking your gloves off!
What proportion of people do you think are concerned about car theft. Fifty percent, maybe? What proportion of people care about remote starters? Five percent? So clearly the electronic key is a net benefit to the customer base. I'm pulling these particular numbers out of my ass, obviously, but you get the idea...
"Biped! Good cranial development. Evidently considerable human ancestry."
You think ODB-II is screwing us, wait till OBD-III goes live. Here are some of the features as stated by the Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA).
/citation)
---
OBD-III TECHNOLOGIES
Three ways to send/receive data:
Roadside reader
Local station network
Satellite
---
That's right, a radio link to tell big brother where you are, and what your car is doing. Why??
---
ENFORCEMENT MECHANISMS
Incorporate into biennial I/M program
Read fault code to screen for vehicles that need complete testing
Pass or short test for vehicles with no fault code
Does not speed up repair process
Out-of-cycle inspection
Compile and screen data
Mail notice to vehicle owner requiring out-of-cycle inspection within 10 days
Require Certificate of Compliance (C of C) on next registration/resale, or
Require C of C within 30-60 days, with citation for noncompliance
Enforce citation via court and/or DMV penalty at next registration
Roadside Pullover
CHP flags down vehicles with fault codes
Technician verifies problem by inspecting and/or testing vehicle
Issuance of notice requiring out-of-cycle inspection
Same enforcement (C of C
---
On the other hand they also realise that there are legal issues by this statement on their site.
---
OBD-III raises 4th Amendment search and seizure privacy issues:
''The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated...''
---
But afterwards state that the OBD system should be leagal because it's a nondiscrimitory, mass population product. Whereas the 4th amendment only protects individual privacy and not a group of individuals.
Read more about this at
Sema web site
-- this space for rent --
The car-starter situation is nothing new. For quite a while, the car manufacturers have been making it harder to build knock-off parts, while simultaneously preserving installation revenue for the dealers. Funky tools, fasteners, threads, anything to discourage the non-dealer mechanic or the knock-off manufacturer. Standardization encourages dealer avoidance, hacking, cloning and (in the case of cars) theft. Cars with lots of interchangeable parts are popular with the "chop shops".
To be fair about it, Honda had a big problem with theft. It's no secret that the engine computer is the final frontier of anti-theft technology. How can anyone critize Honda for addressing the problem?
Car hacking is not dead, but it requires more ingenuity than it used to. I remember the old days when I upgraded my home computer by soldering additional memory chips on top of the onboard memory. Just because I can't do that with a modern motherboard, does that make it "unhackable"?
If car companies could copy from each other freely, you would see a totally different market. Parts would be much more interchangable, standardized, and adaptable. Even as things modernized, they would be modernized as components that would likely be easy to swap in and out. Things like planned obsolesence, or the dealer monopolizing service would be a thing of the past. Prices would probably come down considerably, while R&D especially in enviromental friendly technologies would go up. Today enviromental regulations are often used to gain more profits at the expense of poor people by pushing used cars out of the market and making it more difficult for new competition to get in the game.
Think PC. One of the greatest things to happen to the industry was when IBM and Intel lost the lawsuits claiming that people who coppied their interfaces were voilating their intellectual property. It opened the flood gates for AMD, Compaq, and millions of other vendors.
Getting rid of patents would take things a step further in the PC and the Auto industry.
Remember, though, For many years, Honda has, and still does hold the title as one of the top stolen cars in the US. Your point is still legitimate, especially when these new ignition systems have no effect on making insurance rates cheaper...
Not only are people hacking their computerized new-fangled cars, there is even a sourceforge project, although perhaps the most interesting part of that project is the links, for example to FreeScan or LT1_Edit (the former free at least as in beer, the latter is for $$$).
Happy hacking!
What an assinine idea...
At least with my Grand Cherokee you could disable the alarm system by grounding a wire. Sure the alarm isn't enabled anymore, but the car will start and you still need a key in the ignition to drive it off.
Leaving a key in the car is a very very dumb idea. I wonder if your insurance company will cover theft in this case.
Well, since 1996, every car sold in America has required OBD-II compliance, which dictates a requirement for an interface to the engine management computer that adheres to certain government standards. As a result, with a Palm Pilot and a $200 cable, anyone can pull all sorts of nifty information from any modern car's engine computer. Not exactly "a bunch" of electronic gear, when the whole setup fits in a jacket pocket.
One could argue that such standards are pro-competition, since one doesn't need a bunch of specialized equipment for each manufacturer (the situation prior to OBD-II). No need for a Ford computer tool, a GM computer tool, a BMW computer tool, etc...
In short, you can still work on your own car. Just like 50 years ago, you can't do anything without the proper tools. Just happens that the tools are electronic now, rather than mechanical.
And, like many people are going to tell you, if you don't like it, buy a TR6 and shut the hell up.
They were talking about that on CNN while I was travelling through Europe. It's quite feasible to implement it. It's also quite feasible to implement automatic ticketing that tickets all speeders all the time. Neither system would stand a chance of hell of ever getting implemented. In the case of the car just refusing to speed, that'd eliminate speeding ticket revenue and a lot of places depend on that revenue. In the case of the automatic ticketing thing, people would force the speed limits to be removed or raised to the actual speeds people drive at (Which again would have the effect of eliminating those lovely ticket revenues.)
What this adds up to is that there is a system that is arbitrairly enforced against a population which more or less completely ignores the posted limits.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
It's actually quite simple - the "chip" on the key is nothing more than a resistor. In order to bypass it, you need to find it's value with a simple multi-meter. Once you have that, you need to add a few resistors, to approximate that resistance as closely as possible, to the VATS sensor wire in the ignition column.
Most remote start kits should come with several resistors for just this reason.
BTW, car audio/security/sales was my profession for 6 years. Back in those days, we cursed the big 3 daily for their "new innovations" that made our jobs harder.
Fifty watts per channel, baby cakes.
In the UK, police regularly talk on TV about how even the "most secure" cars can be cracked inside of 30 seconds. An unsecured car takes a mere 12, apparently.
Wow. I'm sure that the 20 extra seconds is really going to help, in practice.
Methinks that the best approach to car security is to build the damn security device yourself, from first principles. Even if it doesn't work worth a damn, it'll still work out cheaper. And if it DOES work, you'll be sitting on a gold-mine that'll turn the spam-mailers green with envy.
(One approach I've considered is using the car's electrical properties, such as capacitance, as a means of obtaining biometrics on whoever is in contact with it. Easy to wire up, requires no fancy sensors, but turning the data into a useful ID would be difficult.)
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Hacking a computer is nice and no big deal, because they are cheap (Compared to cars.) and unnecessary for things like getting to work, the grocery store, etc. If I screw up my computer, no big deal, it can wait to be fixed. If I screw up my car, my life is thrown into a screwy loop. If my computer is stolen I go drop $1500 on a new one and wait for the insurance company to reimburse me, if my car is stolen I cannot go anywhere until the insurance company reimburses the creditor of the car and I can buy a new one.
Cars are not meant to be toys anymore. If you really insist on playing with your car, buy an old mustang that you don't need to worry about.
Someone has watched "Runaway" one too many times :)
;)
Seriously, though I think the best answer is an EMP gun mounted on the front of police cars, designed to fry a fleeing vehicle's car computer, from about 15 feet which causes the engine to stall and the car to coast to a stop. Much safer than a carpet-o-nails which can cause dramatic loss of steering with either or both front tires being blown out.
How about a Matrix-esque bluetooth-type proprietary no-hop wireless network that would allow a cop to kill all compatible engines within a small radius. The circuitry would be the size of a small pager's motherboard and could be built right into the computer, not as a hackable add-on. Ooooh, he can use the MDT to select the vehicle to kill from a list that pops up, showing the year, make, model, color and vin. But that would lend itself to automated license checks whereby the MDT would pop up on the screen any nearby cars that are stolen (a la LoJack) or who's owner's license is suspended. I got caught once by a cop in Princeton, NJ who was pulling up behind each and every car on the highway at 2:30am and running their tags to check their owner status.
Nah, I like the EMP gun better. No one's stealing 74 Nova's anymore
Intelligent Life on Earth
...because the article the poster is referring to is a load of bunk.
Yes, the Camaro and Firebird are going away. GM decided they'd rather use their resources dedicated to the F-Body platform to produce more profitable automobiles or trucks.
No, the tiny engines in today's imports aren't better than the heavy iron (or aluminum) that comes out of Detroit. Anything you can do to an import you can do to domestic muscle, and vice versa.
And there isn't a chip on the market for a Honda that will give you 50 horsepower over your stock chip. Not unless you've already done a ton of other mods, like new cams, intake, exhaust, pistons, head work, etc. The same is true for Camaros, Firebirds, Mustangs, etc.
Vehicles are just as "hackable" today as they've ever been. You just need more/different tools to do the job now.
I know the new Corvettes use a "drive by wire" system for the gas pedal these days. I think there's another GM vehicle out there where the steering will be done by electronic control instead of a shaft that runs through the engine bay.
;-)
It's just a question of how reliable can the manufacturer make the system. Lots of testing has to be done, and it will take years to perfect something like an optically controlled vehicle.
We'll see these kinds of vehicles more and more in our lifetime, I believe.
And you thought your car was hard to work on NOW!
Don't you think they can tow away wrecks with smashed in frontends and no wheels? What naivete to think that locked, curbed wheels are even a nuisance!
-dB
"It if was easy to do, we'd find someone cheaper than you to do it."
LOL, thats an interesting assesment. At a local car show I was near the security booth when one man came to report his 1969 camaro was stolen and he couldn't figure out how it was stolen since he had the rotor out of the distributor in his pocket. Literally within 5 minutes another man came in to report that someone stole the rotor out of the distributor on his chevy truck.
Now I'm laughing since I read the same story in a car-mag (think it was Carcraft) a few months ago.
Back on-topic, the best way to prevent your nearly new car from being stolen is to wire a hidden switch into the fuel pump circuit. Forget about clubs, they won't stop someone who's determined.
If you shut off the fuel pump circuit when you park, the sequence of events when a thief steals your car will be as follows:
1) they break into the car (well duh!)
2) they break off any clubs, etc
3) they break the ignition lock
4) start the car (it will still start without the pump)
5) they drive about 50 feet and the car stalls (no more fuel)
Now, the thief is totally exposed with onlookers wondering why he stopped his car in the middle of the parking lot. You can bet that he'll run for it since he can't futz around with so much attention.
The key is to make sure the kill switch is hidden or non-obvious. I've seen friends use the cigarette lighter (they didn't smoke) as the switch. Pretty sneaky eh?
Although my insurance company won't give me a discount for this "anti-theft" system, I'd rather still have my car than a few more bucks in my pocket.
I've been hacking on cars (old and new) for 20 years and this is the best anti-theft system I've thought of for cars with electric fuel pumps.
GRH
Yeah, it's not like there's some sort of DMCA for cars.... yet.
I personally hope the '74 Nova isn't on the list because that's the exact make and model of my car. They'll have to use the EMP gun on me because the only computer in my car is my laptop!
Seriously, though, the best cars to hack are older ones. There's nothing like a built Chevy 350, a 4-barrel carb, shaved door handles, no catalytic converter, etc. (or course, this isn't exactly describing my car, but it's not completely impossible.
I've actually found my '01 Eclipse to be easier to work on than my '84 Ranger. Brakes are simpler, struts/shocks are simpler, sparkplugs are way simpler, changing the oil is a snap. The engine is a more complicated design, but it's drastically easier to do work on. It LOOKS harder to work on, but when you get your hands dirty you find out that it's easier.
If something is going wrong, I just need to get an ODB-II logger ($150 w/cable & software) to pull the code out of the computer -- opposed to my truck where I've got to guess why the idle is off. Not only that, but I can actually have it log the performance characteristics of the car while I'm driving for even more diagnostic information.
You lose some flexability you previously had with non-computer controled vehicles, but you also gain more flexability in other areas. It's just a different kind of technology -- you've gotta get used to it. And when you figure it out, you've got more control than you could ever get before.
As a heavy modder of my own 97 OBD-II computer controlled car I can say without a doubt that it is now EASIER to hack a car then ever. Before when you wanted to do a change to the car which might effect mixture (it seemed like EVERYTHING effected it) you had to go through the effort to rejet the carb and even then it was a compromise between running the ragged edge of destruction and being fast. You had to worry about weather changes, altitude changes, etc
Now with computer control the variables are handled, changing fuel ratio is as easy as tuning a knob or changing a parm in a laptop.
Sure it requires a different set of tools, tools which might make the average greese monkey who has never worked on anything more moden then a carbed 5.0 motor cring in fear, but the fact is the data that is available via the ECU, and the ease with which engine parms can be changed is way better then before. Modern diagnostics make troubleshooting disturbingly easy.
And lets not forget the actual engines themselves are not all that different. The only "new" fangled thing is variable cam timing and even that is still just a "variation" hehe of a theme. you still have to get air in, and as much of it as possible, inject the right amount of fuel, ignite the spark at the right time, and get rid of all the burnt gas.
In the old days you could only make course adjustments that effected the entire operating range of the motor. And you can still do that today. But today you also have the ability to optimize the entire range of operation with no sacrifices. Some might call the complicated, I call that elegance and simplicity because now I can just do what I want and not have to think about striking a balance.
No. Cars are EASIER today then they were 15 years ago. When I can spend $95 on a Palm M100 and $165 on a cable and software to be able to interface with my cars computer don't tell me it is too expensive either. Just admit that you aren't willing to learn something new and you can't think outside your own self-imposed box. Cause it isn't that complicated and the basic principles of an internal combustion engine haven't changed.
Hell I know guys who are able to mod their cars to go fast who I know darn well couldn't work on a carb, or time a distributor to save their life. But they sure can punch a number into a laptop.
If you can't be good, be good at it!
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is kinky.
My 98 VW Passat has a boost chip (+47 hp, +66 ft-lbs), a McIntosh amp, a door mounted wall socket, a built in link for my PDA and so forth.
My coworker's 2000 Impala has a supercharger, larger injectors, a custom fuel program, custom ABS and traction control (to allow the supercharger to catch the wheels with full torque, which will definitely spin them), a WIn NT based PC and a big amp adjustment.
My friend's 2001 Accord has a dreamcast in his glove box and a pop up monitor installed in dash.
It takes more skill, but there is NO problem hacking cars any way you want to anymore -- so long as your car manufacturer lets you do so. I guarantee you it is not so easy to hack a Benz or a Bimmer due to their theft systems. Even the Passat requires you have a password to reset your MFD (economy / odo) and radio. But with these in mind, the world is your oyster, man.
Hey freaks: now you're ju
(totally off topic. This is what 50 karma caps are FOR) .08 and, worse, legislation that allows a cop to take your driver's license away (90 days) if you refuse to submit to a breathalyzer on the spot (regardless of if you are drunk or not), was caught DWI this Thanksgiving.
Texas Senator Barrientos, who supported the move to
Making manslaughter caused by unsafe driving carry a harsher sentence is the better solution to these problems. Make people do time for real crime, not thought crime.
Returned Peace Corps IT Volunteer
It is a violation of federal law to tamper with any automotive emission system. That is one reason the modules are made difficult to alter. The other reason is purely the harsh environment, things like hot salt spray isn't good for circuit boards and other electronics.
But the engine control module and software, etc. is all part of the "emission control system". Modify them and you aren't "street legal". The anti-theft portion comes from the insurance companies. Many people won't buy models if the insurance gets too expensive.
Ah, so it's nice to know that you car is secure with a fancy key required to start it, and yet you leave the thing running in your driveway,
while you get ready for work!
You know nothing about remote starters. They start the car but leave the doors LOCKED. If you attempt to put the car into gear or otherwise touch the brakes without inserting the key and turning the ignition on, the system will shut the engine off. Again, the car will start remotely but cannot be driven without the key (unless you hotwire it, in which case it's no less safe than a car without a remote starter).
The problem here is with these new ignitions, you have to buy a special module to install in your car and stick a spare key in that module. Then, the thief just has to reach under the dash, grab the key and he's good to go. Bad idea.
-Ryan, with the unoriginal sig
You didn't read the parent post to this. The guy is talking on one hand about how he loves the security of the new key-chips, yet he goes outside in his pajamas in the morning to start the car to warm it up before work while he gets ready. He's not using a remote starter of any sort. :)
...to drive with vegetable oil - real rapeseed or sunflower oil which is normally used for salads or cooking. Some people even filter oil used for making french fries or hamburgers and drive their cars with it.
In general, vegoil is much thicker than mineral diesel, requiring the fuel system to work harder - the injection pump might break after some time, or the injectors become dirty by inefficiently combusted fuel. So they heat the vegoil before giving it into the injection system. If you have ever put some oil into a pan and heated it, you'll know why - it's getting thin like water and much easier for the diesel engine to handle. Heat is being provided by electrical equipment, similar to a coffee-maker, or by the engine's watercooling system.
There is a community who shares experiences, plans and reports about their modifications on "http://www.fmso.de/" (in German), in a way which is quite similar to the free-software development most of us are familiar with. AFAIK in other countries like France or the UK there is a "vegoil community", too.
Sheer horsepower is not the main reason - most of them drive old non-turbo diesel engines with 50 or 60 hp, and these things don't really become faster with vegoil (there are a few ones who even hack their new TDI (Audi/VW) or CDI (Mercedes) engines - they _are_ hackable if you know how). However, vegoil is much cheaper (EUR 0.45/l) than mineral diesel (EUR 0.80/l), and it is neutral on carbondioxide - the engines spit at most the amount of CO2 into the atmosphere which the oil plants have consumed a year ago. Particles and toxic pollutions are much lower with vegoil than with dino diesel. Yet the main reason for most of these people to hack their cars is "just for fun".
BTW no one of them has a remote-controlled engine starter - these things are illegal in Germany because of unnecessarily polluting the air. If you want to have a warm car on a freezy winter morning, use a combustive or electrical (AC-powered) heating system.
You need a slushbox. Most of these starter kits say "For use on vehicles with automatic transmissions."
Look at Sony's Minidisc head units. JC Whitney used to sell a dual cassette head unit with high speed dubbing and recording.
I own a (stock) example, and driving it on a twisty mountain road is about the most fun you can have with your clothes on :)
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
I think I remember a vague plan involving one way valves on the hydraulics. Basically it involves making it so the brakes and clutch can be applied, but not taken off again.
While living in Newcastle (a city in the UK with big joyriding problems) I was also considering padlocking the clutch to the floor - under a similar "won't notice it until it's too late" theory.
Dave
I write a blog now, you should be afraid.
The right car makes for better hacking. Old BUGs were the best, because you can find all of this great stuff for them. The modern equivalent would be a PT Cruiser. Check out ptcruiserlinks.com and see for yourself.
On a side note, car hacking has in many ways become easier than ever. Readily available and easy-to-operate sign making equipment has led to a much greater availability of vinyl graphics and bumper stickers. The internet has you connected to many smaller artisans who truly make some impressive car accessories. (Check out flameball.com)
For performance modding, the new and better manufacturing techniques make for parts that fit without adjustment, and again at a greater availability. Combine that with a wealth of information at your fingertips via Google, and voila!
'80's cars (american) were designed not to be modded. This led to the modern rice rocket, and the decline of American cars. The Detroit (OK, Toluca Mexico) auto makers are reversing that trend.
"It's impossible" is always the matra of the man who didn't try hard enough.
~Hammy
I know this comment will never get read...
But there's no need to buy the expensive modules the remote starter company says is required for transponder key setups... their $20-$30 adapter is actual nothing except 3 wires, a relay and a spare key.
What, you mean the Segway type R?
-Ryan, with the unoriginal sig
He's not using a remote starter of any sort. :)
:)
Ah ha. Got it. I was under the impression you were talking about the guy with the "Ask Slashdot" question that started this whole discussion. Makes sense now.
-Ryan, with the unoriginal sig
It seems wherever I go, I hear someone complaining how new cars require you to be as smart as this or that kindof scientist to work on them nowadays. I really dont feel that its true. My 50 year-old father who's been working on cars since he was 16 felt this way. I took him into the garage one day to explain some stuff about our Ford Taurus. The one thing that you have to remember is that the engine in new cars is the same engine that was in cars in 1960; there's just tons of little gadgets bolted on to them. Instead of a carburetor, you have fuel injectors shooting the fuel directly behind the intake valves. Instead of a fixed mixture of air/fuel, the computer uses sensors to figure out if the car is running to lean or too rich and adjusts the fuel spray accordingly. People always cite how much diagnostic tools cost and how the normal grease monkey or gearhead cant afford them. While there are diagnostic tools that'll hook up to computers for not all that much (~$300-$500), they're right in that the really good ones are too expensive ($2000+). The plus side though, is that these really aren't needed. Sure they make it a bit easier to check and see whether a sensor is out, but you can check your sensors with a shop manual and an ohmmeter(most Chilton's manuals have the acceptable range of resistance listed). Alternatively, there's usually a few wires on the diagnostic connector (or a diagnostic jumper on the fuse block) that you can short and cause the check engine light to blink an error code. The error code you get from this is the same code you get from using a fancy diagnostic link. You just have to look it up and you know what's wrong (or what the computer *thinks* is wrong). Need a new computer? $20 at the boneyard. Cars today aren't really very different from cars 30 years ago. I have no more trouble working on our '67 Mercury Cougar than I do working on our '98 Ford Taurus.
"Moltar, I have a giant brain that is capable of reducing any complex machine into a simple yes or no answer."
When I read your comments, I think you're forgetting that there are some companies that have done very well hacking with engine computers with considerable success.
In Germany, there are companies called tuners that can wring amazing feats out of stock BMW and Mercedes-Benz engines with masterfully-crafted modifications to the intake system, exhaust system, valve train and engine computers. A good example is Brabaus: they modified the stock Mercedes-Benz 6.0-liter V-12 engine to the point that a Brabaus-modified S600 luxury sedan is capable of top-end performance you normally associate with a Ferrari sports car, yet it does it so seamlessly that it drives like a regular car when driven at lower speeds.
The only thing nowadays is that you do need much more skill in modifying a modern car to achieve greater performance, but then, today's after-market car tuners have gotten very good at their work, too.
There's a scene in the book that talks about a street in the philipines where one car alarm will set off another nearby, ect, untill the whole road is screaching.
I can only imagine what it woudl be like with the screaming woman car alarm...
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
What you seem to be wanting is to not allow children to come into contact with adults, because you never know, that adult might want to molest the child.
That's moronic. There is a difference between illegalizing 'not good things' and illegalizing stuff that lets people do 'not good things' It's bad to rape people, but that doesn't mean we should make laws legally requiring all women to ware armored panties.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Due to anti-polution laws, he wouldn't be able to drive his car unless he spent a shitload of money getting it certified.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
And owners of these cars will be YET ANOTHER class of consumers that get shat on by the recording industry's misguided attempts to alienate their customer base.
It's 2:00, I'm at work, and I'm karma-whoring. Yeah.
It is not becaue you painted yourself in a corner (by virtually eliminating public transportation) that you suddenly have the "right" to use a car!!!! Expect to have that "right" pulled from you if you don't exercise it responsibly!!!