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GNOME 2.0 Developer Platform Beta
ambrosius27 writes: "To quote from Jeff Waugh's announcement: "The API frozen Developer Platform Beta, 'Everyone's Excited and Confused', is ready for your porting pleasure!" You can find the full announcement on Gnotices. The GNOME developers have been hard at work. Feel free to download, create/port applications, and, most of all, send in nicely detailed bug reports!"
Hopefully this will be a step closer to a consumer linux desktop.
I am now confused. Should I be excited?
To access zipped files I use unzip, but to access a frozen api, is the software called "unfreeze" or "thaw"?
Okay, this is coming from a lesser-experience Linux user so don't flame me TOO hard, but how does this tie (if at all) with Ximian's version of Gnome?
I'm really liking Evolution, and while their desktop is pretty, it seems bare in comparision to KDE's solution. To be able to port more stuff over to Gnome (and Ximian's GNOME), would be wonderful in my eyes.
Now, granted, I may be completely confused and these don't mix at all, so in that case, just tell me to shut up and I'll go crawl back in my hole.
Perhaps for GNOME 2, they should change it to a RIGHT foot instead... just a thought.
Everything is mainstream now.
I run Linux on my Sony VAIO 505FX (the first generation ultraslim) with 96MB of memory, and the highest res is only 800x600 (I know, I wish it could do better). I find the AA text from KDE to be a really nice feature to have, as it makes everything much smoother. However, KDE is gigantic bloat, and it makes my little vaio crawl.
This machine is quite zippy running Gnome+Sawfish. And I'd wish to have AA fonts on Gnome too. Is this a hi-pri feature for 2.0? Can't wait to see that.
The entire nonexistent 'war' is just made up by some trolling losers who have nothing better to do!
When one of the desktops come with good news, the trolls get all upset about it and spread FUD.
Well, let's face the reality: the war does not exist!
Sorry, but that's the way it is, so live with it, 'cause trolling is completely useless.
Nobody will listen to you, no matter how hard to try.
Well, this is a developer link, not for people who don't enjoy building it themselves, but here are some nice screenshots.
Even Slashdot wants to hide some things
So of course I clicked the link
Turns out it is a javascrip page that opens window after window, I assume it would stop when it crashed some resourece or other.
So yes, don't click the link
Open Source Identity Management: FreeIPA.org
On one hand, I can see that. But remember the beef that most Slashdotters have with Microsoft: lack of choice = beginnings of monopoly = hell on earth.
I say let each develop and make the best that they can. Fair competition is a good and stimulating environment.
Font anti-aliasing is probably one of the major reasons that KDE is so slow for you. Try turning it off and compare again.
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
If you're willing to merge GTK+ with QT and gnome-libs with kde-libs, be my guest.
If you're smart enough and have enough spare time to do that, help yourself.
So grab your favorite FTP client and download the source.
Try to merge the two projects... until you find out how much they differ architecturally and realize how hard it is to merge them.
In short: trying to merge the two projects is almost impossible.
To try to do that, now THAT is a waste of time.
... progressing like this. This just goes to show what can be done. Excellent job, men and women! Keep up the great work over at the GNOME project! My humble thanks.
et's compare again:
GNOME:
more than enough cut/paste support (select & click on middle button)
Galeon web browser: THE BEST browser ever (ad blocking, tabbed browsing, highly customizeable)
never crashes
cost: $0, including support (mail, irc) & documentation (ever clicked on the Help icon?)
WinXP
nonexistent/bad copy/paste
the ignorant FrontPage users' standard web browser
stability: crash at startup
the most widely used Office suite in the world
cost: $0, with full documentation and 1 year of support (YEAH RIGHT!!!!)
Could you please post a link where I can download a legal version of Windows XP and Office for $0? Thank you very much.
Do lockups count as crashes?
Do they count as bluescreens?
I guess you don't know what "beta software" means...
"Pointless competition is only holding linux back."
Funny, because competition between GNOME and KDE is *EXACTLY* what has made both GNOME and KDE mature so much.
Why don't you send this message to gnome-devel-list or kde-devel-list?
I'm sure you'll hear a lot of things you don't expect (such as that the GNOME vs KDE war does not exist).
Please mod this guy down to "-4, scrub"
I suppose that you're pretty cool for bragging that you steal software. You're doing a good service to the IT community, which I'll assume that you feel like you have some part in, since you're floating around slashdot. And drudging up another thread about Linux vs. Windows, I suppose that's as good a way to fill your lonely Friday: fan the everpresent geek flames and revel in the fruits of your labor. I think you should post anonymously from now on.
I'm determined to reclaim my karma. Now, if I can only find a groundbreaking article and something witty to say....
Actually, I've always wondered how easy it would be to make a clone of GTK+ that's just a wrapper around Qt... (and/or vice versa...)
Ok this is probably soo totally not possible, but it would solve many of the issues that the _user_ has (two distinct, different looking and different working interfaces...)
[dont flame me too much I know its only a pipe dream...]
Um....You obviously know nothing about Gnome, what it is, and how Xwindows work.
Gnome2 does not run OpenOffice, is not responsible for AbiWord behaviour either (that would be plain Gnome vanilla). Gnome2 is a developers api to which applications that want to run in its platform should port....
Do you understand now????
Alex
NO SIG
Whenever I see screenshots of KDE and Gnome, the letters W,S and V look just really ugly, is this a problem which is going to be fixed as AA mature ?
...is a lyric from Man, it's So Loud in Here, from They Might Be Giants' new album, Mink Car.
They revamped the airport completely,
now it looks just like a nightclub,
everyone's excited and confused...
go gnome!
Please mod this up!
.. but I tend to flip back and forth between GNOME/KDE, usually sticking with the newest one. :)
... I take what I like best from each, and put them all together to form the uber-desktop ....
I don't know about anyone else
I don't care where anyone stands on the GNOME/KDE fence, but
KDE environment with, iKons from kde-look.org, Galeon for browsing, Konqueror for file management (ftp support rocks), Evolution for mail, Xchat for irc, liquid from mosfet, and openoffice together as one complete desktop is a force to be reckoned with. If you think that GNOME is good, and KDE is good, together, they are even more impressive.
That's why competition in Linux rules
(/me points all "you have to run multiple libraries" excuses to their local computer store for $30 of RAM)
Well, for starters It's not a release for the users.
It's a release targeted for developers that wants to start porting their applications to the Gnome2 platform.
As for AbiWord and other applications not being able to run on the Gnome2 platform, you are just plain wrong. It's not yet ported to it, but it is still possible to run AbiWord from another installation with Gnome.
It's a totally useful, informative site. Please don't spread rumors like this on slashdot, the most reliable, accurate news site in the business!
-- everyone else on slashdot
um...it's a DEVELOPMENT PLATFORM release, i.e. we're talking about the libraries upon which the desktop environment is built. In a few weeks, after they've killed lots of the bugs hiding in the libraries and after the developers have had more time to port the key desktop applications, then the DESKTOP beta will roll out too. Some of the applications, like Abiword, may not be ported by the time GNOME 2.0 goes gold; however, all GNOME 1.4 applications will work great in the GNOME 2.0 desktop until the apps have been ported. In the meantime, the apps just won't be taking advantage of the goodies in the GNOME 2.0 libraries, that's all. So, relax! The future looks rosy. :-)
~~~~~~~~~
dissertus scribendo latine videri volo.
* (or RC 2 in case it is necessary)
Notice how the planned GNOME releases are closer together than the KDE releases. Is there any indication when GNOME 2.1 will be out? KDE usually takes 4/5 months between releases, so I expect KDE 3.1 in July, with a 3.1.1 bugfix release in August and of course a 3.0.1 bugfix release at the end of March of begin of April.
GNOME did not have as many recent releases as KDE has with the 2.x series (GNOME underwent the same large overhaul as KDE did during the transition to KDE2), so what kind of a release schedulet can we expect of GNOME after 2.0?
This is mostly an issue with XFree. The noticable improvements between 4.0 and 4.1 should give hope for even better results in the future. I've heard from XFree86 CVS users that there are indeed many more improvements in several areas. Looking forward to XFree 4.2, or the next 4.1.
Finally! With this, I think all the Linux GUI's will be better off. Wow, I remember when GUI ment small boxes that had no shadowing, and such. But what ever did happen to those many old desktops we used before?
That's why its a PLATFORM BETA. It's not a release beta, it's a PLATFORM BETA. This means that they are working on the PLATFORM. Then they will be working on the applications. Joe Sixpack is NOT MEANT for this release. Period. When they have a DESKTOP release, and after distributions package it, then it will be ready for Joe Desktop. Don't complain simply because you don't understand the process. The process is the same for Windows, it's just that with Linux, anyone can view the progress.
Engineering and the Ultimate
Yup, this is quite feasbile. Look at kdebindings in kde's cvs for qtc, a C binding for qt.
It is Alpha releases that are not ment for end-users and developers only. Beta releases are not ment for all end-users, but certainly they are suitable for the savvy ones (you know, the ones that write useful bug reports).
It doesn't come.
With a five finger discount, you dumbfuck.
;)
I bet you were paid off by Ximian to write pro-GNOME comments on slashdot. No worries, my Slashdot pro-KDE pro-WINXP friends, Ximian is burning through so much cash that it'll go out of buisness
performance of gnome 1.4 (?) sucked, I endee up using kde, falling back to gonme apps under it too often. I believe botb destktop environments are quite ready for prime time, feature-wise. But both suck in terms of performace, windows 2k runs waaaay faster. SO I guess they would something about speed in gnome 2.0, and that something shouldn't be 10%-20%. KDe is already lost, 3.0 alpha is out and beta is near. Gnome 2.0 is our only hope. (help me obi van...[well, I'm as drunk as I could be, bear with me will you?])
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room!
What part of the previous post do you not understand ? The part that's "beta" is the development platform itself. So in the context of this release, the developers are the "users", and the people who are developing the nuts and bolts are the "developers",.
Is there any fix for the Nautilus problems on RH 7.2? If I turn Nautilus off the icons and right-click menu go with it.
Those that are, are likely to get implemented by the other system, perhaps even more cleanly. Both environments, for instance, seem to have burgeoning efforts surrounding the IETF calendaring and address standards; they may even become interoperable by virtue of there being IETF standards :-).
Those ideas that turn out to be horrid can be learned from and avoided.
After all, it's not as if throwing all the people onto one project would necessarily lead to higher productivity. Double the team sizes, and communications costs diminish productivity :-(.
There are doubtless some jibes back and forth, here and there, but if they were spending 80% of their time flaming one another, they wouldn't get much code written...
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
such as that the GNOME vs KDE war does not exist
It's definatly in the minds of some developers on both sides. That's what keeps innovation flowing.
Go KDE/GNOME war! Whoohoo!
I clicked the link and nothing happened.
But then, I'm using Mozilla with popup on load disabled.
Uh, this is not how it works in open sourced desktops. They should have called it alpha2 like KDE does and GNOME did until this point. "development platform" is just a buzzword. give me a fucking break man, I hope Ximian doesn't continue on doing Microsoft-ish advertising schemes like that.
.. I put up my own list of GNOME 2 screenshots here.
I like it, but it has seemed to slow down a bit. Also, looks much more windows-ish XIMIAN Gnome did.
If you compile in the (illegal because of apple's patents) antialiasing renderer into libfreetype2, antialiasing looks 100% better.
Actually, a Beta should be suitable for general use.
**************
Not a platform beta. The platform beta means that they've got all of the pieces of the platform together, and they are testing the API's to make _them_ production quality. The DESKTOP betas are scheduled for next year, in which case end-user functionality will be tested.
Engineering and the Ultimate
Hm, if only the API's are Beta and the UI isn't even that level, I have a hard time believing they have a realistic time schedule. Apparently there isn't room for "desktop" alphas and they Beta's are awfully close to each other. Two weeks between Beta 1 and Beta 2 is too short if you want a decent amount of feedback and time to actually fix problems that will be reported as well.
I seriously hope the GUI is also near Beta quality already.
I'm laughing my ass off at the idiots above claiming "YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT MAAAN!@#"
Some people need a sense of humor...
Maybe that has something to do with it?
We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
http://www.flying-rhenquest.net/images/screenshot. jpg Warning: Boobies
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Hm, if only the API's are Beta and the UI isn't even that level, I have a hard time believing they have a realistic time schedule.
*****
Ummm...., you have to have the API's BEFORE the applications. If the APIs is only beta quality, how could the applications which depend on them be more so?
You also have to remember that the applications themselves are already written, they only need to be ported to the new API, so it's not like they are going to be rewritten from scratch or anything.
Also, fast turnaround times are essential for feedback and testing. If two weeks after Beta 1 users are still reporting bugs that were fixed a week ago, you have a bad situation. The faster the turnaround time between betas, the better. Remember, "release early, release often". That's how you find and fix bugs.
Engineering and the Ultimate
That largely depends on the API changes. I thought GNOME 2.0 was a huge improvement over 1.4 in several core areas, so porting applications might be painful.
I suspect that most of the applications are already up-to-date with the API though, usually applications in CVS change directly after the API changes. I don't think they rewrote the API first without touching any of the applications.
Maybe this is a big difference between GNOME and KDE (I'm mostly used to the KDE development model). Within KDE most applications that come with the main packages are maintained by the same people who maintain the libs, or at least people who closely follow the libs. Therefore the API freeze is at the same time as the application freeze.
GNOME possibly has a somewhat more loose connection between main applications (they're packahed seperately for example), so that might require an API freeze before the application freeze. Makes sense to me now.
>> "Pointless competition is only holding linux
>> back."
> Funny, because competition between GNOME and KDE
> is *EXACTLY* what has made both GNOME and KDE
> mature so much.
Really? Says who? You?!
I think that competition is good in some cases but there are a LOT of overlapping areas with GNOME and KDE.
We don't have to compete on EVERYTHING do we?
After all, a lot of OSS projects have no competition and they do fine. The only competition is lack of a feature set.
We don't need duplicate file formats. We don't need duplicate icon sets and teams. We don't need separate configuration mechanisms.
... etc...
I think things are stabilizing though. QT is now GPL and I it looks like the KDE and GNOME teams are cooperating.
Kevin
Too many choices, which is why MS has DROPPED uber security support for anything below exploder 5.5, so those that dont want the extra bloat/insecurity fearures are left in the lurch.
Besides, what will happen when Compaq is allowed to skin its own interface - choices.
>QT is now GPL
Qt has been GPL for about a year now. Don't say "now". It's happened for a while now.
according to you, windows has been in beta for 15 years?
OMFG could you be any more stupid? This is the software for developers to port 1.X versions of their software to 2.0. Nothing more. Development Platform= a platform to develop on. Plus Ximian is NOT Gnome. Tell me, is it true...is ignorance bliss?
It's not that I don't agree with you, but starting your piece with a dictionary definition just screams "school report."
Plus there's all the snags and trapdoors in TrollTech's ultra complex and byzantine triple licensing with Qt.
Frankly, as a developer, I won't touch it. KDE is a software developers licensing hell...
> This is the software for developers to port 1.X versions of their software to 2.0.
Yeah, wtf, they provide screenshots and all. They are obviously catering to the ordinary LUNIX user. They should have just called it alpha2, and not broken tradition. I guess the writter of the gnome plan was either a crackwhore like RMS, or a just a fucking spic, like Miguel.
> Plus Ximian is NOT Gnome.
Ximian basically hijacked Gnome development. Pre-Ximian versions of GNOME were great, especially GNOME 1.2. Post Ximian versions of GNOME (1.4), are pieces of shit compared to KDE 2.x.
> Tell me, is it true...is ignorance bliss?
You are more qualified to tell me, fucktard.
Cuz it's not just a foot, it's a stylized letter "G", for GNOME.
(If we started using backward letters, Toys Backward-R Us would sue so fast ...)
>>
Yeah, this has been my experience too. Turnng on AA sends memory usage through the roof and also slows down application start time. Go mad and stick 1,000 TT fonts on your system, and it takes between 30 secs and 1 min to start any apps at all. KDE has some serious problems to work out with anti-aliasing.
Btw, using TT fonts also makes a pigs-ear of "Print to PDF" (which uses ps2pdf) producing very ratty looking output. I imaging that Gnome users will run into this problem too, as that's a Ghostscript issue.
Question - has there been any progress made on bringing the respective component models of KDE and GNOME any closer together? It'd be nice to be able to embed a Bonobo component in a KParts document, perhaps itself embedded in a StarOffice or even Mozilla framework. How fundamentally different are KParts/DCOP, Bonobo/CORBA, StarOffice/UNO, Mozilla/XPCOM, Java/JavaBeans, Microsoft OLE/COM, (probably Xt belongs in this list too...), will there ever be any hope of unifying them a bit better ???
Choice of masters is not freedom.
I realy like the ideea of an unified
window api (like in windows is)
there should be some dictatorship on these
look the win32api changed fery slow
over the 10 years (600+ freezed fuctions)
These things are good for developers.
U learn once then apply everywhere
GNOME 2.0 doesnt have the elegance of a real OO
framework, like GNUStep.
Probably an e-mail forwarded story. It seems to have formatting problems (stupid < + firm word-wrapping!)
r ec tory/thebustrip.txt
http://www.slut-sex-stories.com/slut_stories_di
my GOD that's almost the exact same setup as I run at work! spooky...only I run ns6.2 for browsing.
* * *
Hello, my name is Robert Lerner, and I pronounce Lernux as "99% cpu"
Uh, it's "complex" and "byzantine" because you are a fucking dumbass.
Chose GPL if you want to make open software.
Chose Commercial if you want to make properitary software, or want to develop on multiple platforms.
If you don't get that, then you are a fucking moron, which most GNOME developers are.
Do KDE-developers really think GNOME is competing with them?
"They should have called it alpha2 like KDE does"
Super Gnome 2 Alpha Turbo Championship-Edition.
Foot vs Letter K......Fight!
graspee
It would be nice if they should share things like themes and configuration options. I should be able to say i want my default window background color blue, and most windows should listen and do that. I shouldn't have to say i want my GTK+ windows blue, then say again i want my QT windows blue, then say again i want my xyzlib windows blue, etc.
More shared standards!
I love Kimmy!
Funny you should mention that, because I have had a similiar situation occur with me. My Dad, not a big PC user(just likes to take digital pics and play games) didnt realize that i repartitoned the pc and put mandrake on it. He saw reconfiguring it and to my surprise he was more excited of the operation and use compared to windows. Needless to say he wants to play with it once i show him the uses of it. Ill reply back once i see his unbias opinion.
MyKey
I'd use gnome if one simple thing would get fixed. When you click on the titlebar of a window I think it should maximize. This shading business is silly. Shading windows in a GUI that lacks a minimize button/feature is a necessity, but in a proper GUI it doesn't really need to be there, let alone be the ONLY option available. At the very least users should be able to configure this behavior. I keep waiting and hoping that this will be corrected but so far nothing has happened. Until it does I'm sticking with KDE or IceWM sans gnome.
Lee
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
you can change this in the sawfish window manger setup. i've got double clicking the titlebar of the window set to toggle maximize/unmaximize on all the computers i use.