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University of Illinois uses a Cluster for Immersive VR

It seems the folks down at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign have created a 6-sided CAVE like system called ALICE. But, instead of running it off of a SGI Onyx, they've developed a distributed environment for visualization called Syzygy. Slap a few computers together and make your own holodeck!

123 comments

  1. Yay! by SinisterAngel · · Score: 0

    Now we just need transporters, warp drive, and alien races to have our own Startrek universe!!

    --


    This post close captioned for the thinking impared.
  2. Emersive? by Ravagin · · Score: 2, Funny

    Is this, like, transcendentalist VR? Far out!

    Or maybe it has something to do with emery; but how a powder generally used for grinding and polishing fits into VR, I don't know.

    Now I'm going to read the article.

    --

    Karma: T-rexcellent.

    1. Re:Emersive? by cynthetik · · Score: 1

      So let's tell the slashdot editors what the word should be then:

      Immersive

      Thats better then ...

      --
      .sig .sig .sputnik
    2. Re:Emersive? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it has everything to do with emesis.
      powerful stuff

  3. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  4. Great! by darkov · · Score: 3, Funny

    This should make for some stupendous pr0n! Come on all you vouyers, start stringing those polygons together.

    1. Re:Great! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not just polygons but 6-sided cubes! Until now, we have been limited to those paltry 4-sided and 5-sided cubes. Just think of the possibilities...

  5. Nice. by Ravagin · · Score: 1

    This is a delightfully holodeck system, but I find it hard to believe it can convinve you you aren't standing in a box. If I recall, the holodecks also used force field treadmills or some such to control your movement. That's still a ways away, I bet.

    --

    Karma: T-rexcellent.

    1. Re:Nice. by Warvi · · Score: 1

      If I recall, the holodecks also used force field treadmills or some such to control your movement.

      I hate to be the one to tell you this, but they don't use force field treadmills. They don't actually really exist. It's only a tv-show (and/or a movie).

      Also, there's no santa claus.

      --


      Consistency is overrated.
    2. Re:Nice. by timbloid · · Score: 1

      *sob* ...and....the Tooth Fairy? *cries*

    3. Re:Nice. by ZigMonty · · Score: 1

      Holodecks are also supposed to use full motion, photo realistic holography. This sounds more like surround television. Impressive but not exactly Star Trek grade.

    4. Re:Nice. by GigsVT · · Score: 1

      Not to be a bigger geek, but actually I think it had something to do with the replicators also. The food they ate in the holodeck was "real", the women they fucked "real", etc. It had mass and was authentic.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    5. Re:Nice. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is currently no scientific evidence of flying midgets scavenging discarded teeth that I am aware of...

    6. Re:Nice. by Bones3D_mac · · Score: 1

      I don't see that happening for a long, long time... if ever. The devices seen in the movie "Strange Days" are probably more within the realm of feasablity. Unlike the holodeck, which has to accurately simulate all aspects of the real (or unreal) world as realistically as possible by manipulating matter and enery directly, it would be much simpler to "hack" into someone's brain and recreate the appearences and sensations of a reality within the confines of one's mind. Besides, it's less likely they could tell it wasn't real than if they used their own physical sensations to make the determination for themselves.

      --


      8==8 Bones 8==8
    7. Re:Nice. by Ravagin · · Score: 1

      Well you know how to totally destroy a person. Thanks a lot.

      --

      Karma: T-rexcellent.

  6. Bringing science fiction closer to reality by digitalunity · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is one step in the right direction. Big things like these show you what commodity products of the future will be like.

    --
    You can't legislate goodness. Let each to his own destiny, by will of his freely made choices.
  7. Re:Let me get this straight... by Warvi · · Score: 1

    WAR against the Islamic faith

    Since when? I totally missed that! Who is on the other side, all other religions? Please, tell me more!

    --


    Consistency is overrated.
  8. Ever been to the zoo?... by digitalunity · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    See the signs where it says:
    'Don't feed the animals'?
    It should read:
    'Don't feed the trolls!'

    --
    You can't legislate goodness. Let each to his own destiny, by will of his freely made choices.
    1. Re:Ever been to the zoo?... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did I say Islaamic? Or did I say Palestinian? Or did I say Israeli? No. I didn't generalize in a way that could include the inoccent. The Taliban are all guilty. I only call them towel-heads because at this point, that's the nicest name I can think to give them.

  9. Programs and graphics for this needed NOW by Warvi · · Score: 5, Interesting

    See their HOWTO for building up your own setup at


    http://www.isl.uiuc.edu/ClusteredVR/szg/doc/Para me terExamples.txt

    That seems like pretty doable by any geeks with enough boxes.

    That would say if the 3D immersion has any usability to it at all, it will be in common use in 10 yrs. It might become the next big thing in living rooms like TV became 40 years ago.

    However, what makes a new technology break through is not what it enables, but what you get with it. TV would have had no use whatsoever without the television programs made to be watched with it. Computers only broke through when there were programs for it.

    Umm, I sense a great opportunity for all people who can really do great 3D graphics.

    Not to mention what I already said about getting 3D GUIs off the ground at


    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=25035&cid=27 18 945

    --


    Consistency is overrated.
    1. Re:Programs and graphics for this needed NOW by Mike+Connell · · Score: 5, Interesting

      That seems like pretty doable by any geeks with enough boxes.

      #include "Wry smile.h"

      6 linux boxes and the clustering software is only half of the problem. The harder half is 6 or 12 videoprojectors (or more!), the mirrors and the (back) projection surfaces for the CAVE. Add in the tracking hardware (cost and complexity (ie EM interference)), and you have a lot more work to do.

      Don't get me wrong - it excellent that it's feasable for a department to install their own fully immersive VE without an Onyx and a team of engineers, but you'll still need a team of grad students, builders and time.

      Also dont forget that you need a *big* room for one of these too - say you have 2m high surfaces, you basically need 6-8m of vertical space once you include the space for the projectors and mirrors for the top/bottom 'walls'

    2. Re:Programs and graphics for this needed NOW by Howie · · Score: 2

      This is the second post I've seen that assumes you'd project 3d graphics onto this thing. What about video?

      I'm sure existing 360 and 180-degree camera technology, plus some clever DSP/image-processing could get you immersive live environments too.

      Visit the space-shuttle. Swim the great barrier reef. Be on the frontline for war reporting.

      --
      "don't fall into the fallacy of believing that Perl can solve social problems. Maybe Perl 6 can, but that's a ways off"
    3. Re:Programs and graphics for this needed NOW by Mike+Connell · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You could - it just wouldn't be very immersive. With a 3D environment in a CAVE you dont just stand in the centre, you actually walk around a bit. If a virtual object is in the way, you might lean around it, or crouch down to look under it, just like in real life.

      This means that the views have to be created based upon where your head is - which is why at least one person will have a head tracker, if you dont have this, it doesn't feel immersive, it just looks plain wrong.

      Of course, you could keep your head in the centre, and not move it but it kind of ruins the point. Also keep in mind that I am taking 3D stereo display for granted here, but it's not so easy with real cameras, especially if you want 360 degree recording.

      Often people stick video images onto 2D objects (like the front of a virtual TV) within the 3D environment. That's pretty cool :-)

      0.02

    4. Re:Programs and graphics for this needed NOW by Dannon · · Score: 2

      Be on the frontline for war reporting.

      Just what we need. Geraldo transmitted around the world in 3D!

      On that thought, though, there are a number of TV shows I'd fear to see in an immersive environment. Jerry Springer comes immediately to mind....

      --
      Good judgment comes from experience.
      Experience comes from bad judgment.
    5. Re:Programs and graphics for this needed NOW by pjc50 · · Score: 1
      ...if the 3D immersion has any usability to it at all, it will be in common use in 10 yrs.

      That statement has been true for at least the past 20 years.

      Unfortunately, there isn't much benefit for most people from a 3D interface because they don't see or think in 3D.

    6. Re:Programs and graphics for this needed NOW by Warvi · · Score: 1

      nfortunately, there isn't much benefit for most people from a 3D interface because they don't see or think in 3D.

      I'm actually quite sure that most people see in 3D.

      --


      Consistency is overrated.
    7. Re:Programs and graphics for this needed NOW by Snover · · Score: 1
      Also dont forget that you need a *big* room for one of these too - say you have 2m high surfaces, you basically need 6-8m of vertical space once you include the space for the projectors and mirrors for the top/bottom 'walls'
      Originally CRT monitors were the same way -- needed lots of room in the back for the projection. Now there are corrective CRTs that allow for the same screen sizes in the same quality and the same resolutions with less depth needed. I figure that application to this field would work well.

      Eh, that or building some bigass plasma screens. ;)
      --

      [insert witty comment here]
  10. Emersive AI VR by Mentifex · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Aw, gee, I'm getting tired of telling a disputacious and dismissive SlashDot world about the grand happenings in subversive Artificial Intelligence. Maybe they'll believe it when they emerse -- no, wait a holominute, that word is incorrect -- immerse themselves in virtual reality (VR) amid a known or unknown population of artificially intelligent Virtual Entities.

    Then all these genius SlashDotters will wake up and schmell the Kofi, when they virt-realize that Visual Basic Mind.VB and Java-based Mind.Java are for real and are bearing down on their supercilious posteriors with ineluctable, inescapable Technological Singularity.

    Now, don't phreak out, but the next time your holodeck emerses you from ordinary reality into virtual reality, take a look around you at some of the co-resident weirdos that you may meet. Happy holodecking!

  11. Sweet, but... by Lewisham · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...why is it called ALICE? Is it a deliberate attempt to confuse people who already relate ALICE to the ALICEbot? Is ALICE simply just a very adpatable acronym? Does ALICE the acronym deserve an acronym to describe it's acronymity? Adaptable Language In Crappy English, perhaps?

    1. Re:Sweet, but... by tolan's+my+name · · Score: 1

      I rather suspect that ALICE is a common acronym due to Alice [of Wonderland fame]. Ever since Charles Dodgeson, a mathmo himself, wrote it that book has been a favorite of geeks world-wide.

      See for example: quark

    2. Re:Sweet, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, it is a deliberate attempt to confuse people who already relate ALICE to the ALICEbot, and Alice and Alice and Alice and Alice and Alice and Alice and Alice

    3. Re:Sweet, but... by vrmlknight · · Score: 1

      Is this the same ALICE that DARPA was working on i didn't read the article not will i get around to reading it but their was a 3d rendering/cad software that DARPA and Michigan university. It was a new type of CAD that involved a scripting language and physics engine in it... i know now that most all CAD software MicroStation AutoCAD involve scripting and physics but this was about 5 or 6 years ago it came out

      --
      This must be Thursday, I never could get the hang of Thursdays.
  12. Cave errr? by thetunaman · · Score: 1

    As far as I know, we have had a Cave down at the U of I for several years? I have never been in it, but it IS supposed to exist. So what is special about this? P.S. If you are ever down here, stay away from Beckman! Many young lads enter, few are ever seen again...

    1. Re:Cave errr? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's special is that they wrote a system to allow you to drive the cave (or other) gfx with clustered commodity pcs instead of an SGI Onyx.

    2. Re:Cave errr? by thetunaman · · Score: 1

      Does it play Quake3 any better? The old one was pretty deent from what I hear...

    3. Re:Cave errr? by deanj · · Score: 1

      Yeah, the Cave is still there, on the third floor. The other cave (ALICE) is in the basement.

    4. Re:Cave errr? by Turing+Machine · · Score: 1

      Yes, there's a Cave in Beckman. I've been in it several times and it rocks (though physically turning your body when you're playing Quake takes some getting used to... be prepared to die many, many times at first).

      A buddy of mine was an RA for the Cave for a while. The CS department occasionally offers a Cave programming class.

      I believe the Cave folks have free open tours one day a week. You just have to sign up.

      As others have pointed out, the advance here is that this new system runs on commodity hardware. You will indeed still need some expensive stuff to make it work. The standard Cave uses two LCD projectors (if you haven't priced these projectors, cheap ones cost $1,500, good ones cost $5,000 and up) for each wall to get the 3D effect. You use LCD shutter goggles so each eye sees the image from the appropriaate projector.

    5. Re:Cave errr? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Besides the fact that it uses SGIs rather than PCs, the old cave is also only 4-surfaced (3 walls back-projected, floor projected from the ceiling).

  13. roll your own by Lumpy · · Score: 2

    the moniker of "slap a few computers together and make your own" is a bit off. there are a ton of details and specalized software needed to make one. Granted, I think it would be really cool for a community college or a high school to make (where does one come up with 6 lcd projectors for dirt?)

    cince it's slashdotted, anyone know of any projects like that that actiually release all the software used to make it work?

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:roll your own by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      The Cornell Theory Center (www.tc.cornell.edu)
      has a 3-wall cave setup that uses 3 off the shelf dell workstations running w2k and software from vrco.com. Seems to Just Work; I played quake on it a couple months ago.

  14. chrisd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who the hell is chrisd? He spells even worse than CmdrTaco!

  15. Immersive (not Emmersive) Wedge by reachinmark · · Score: 2
    The Australian National University has been working with similar concepts for about 4/5 years now. See their Wedge VR system. Not a CAVE by any means, but it can easily be extended to support more "walls".

    Most importantly, it is a display of what can be achieved with off-the-shelf PC level hardware. Even the projector system is a lot cheaper than that used by the CAVE systems. And it uses Linux too!

  16. From "dictionary.com" by wiredog · · Score: 2

    No entry found for Emersive in the dictionary.

    1. Re:From "dictionary.com" by whovian · · Score: 1

      That's odd. Mind reads

      Emersive (adj.): of or relating to the author Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803-1882).

      --
      To-do List: Receive telemarketing call during a tornado warning. Check.
  17. Re:#include "Wry smile.h" by Warvi · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's easy to play the devil's advocate, but I think there's more poewr for enthusiasm than downplaying here.

    The harder half is 6 or 12 videoprojectors (or more!), the mirrors and the (back) projection surfaces for the CAVE. Add in the tracking hardware (cost and complexity (ie EM interference))

    Their source is GPL'd; it could be modified to use standard or flat monitors in a downsized setting.

    you'll still need a team of grad students, builders and time.

    Same goes for developing operating systems.

    How many /. readers are grad students and builders, I leave as an exercise for the reader to wonder.

    you need a *big* room for one of these

    Unless you downsize it. How many of us have spare space for wondrous technical projects...

    The electronic (wall)paper is being developed at least by IBM and, err, was it HP (my memory fails me here and I'm too lazy to check /.'s comprehensive archives on all the stories of this subject). Say it will hit market 5 yrs from now; you'd still have 5 years to make a product out of this to get it to market by my wildly suggested deadline of ten yrs from now.

    All that is needed for this breakthrough is all that work to create the usable content, just like DVD's need movies to sell.

    I am sure some of us are willing to put together the effort in small groups of friends interested in this achievement. Just for the fun of it!

    --


    Consistency is overrated.
  18. Re:Holly deck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    * I could do this job *

    Shit.

    When does spelling count anymore?

    chrisd - slap - very unprofessional. I hope you are reprimanded for this.

  19. Yeah, but the SGI-based CAVE is expeeeensive! by Myself · · Score: 2

    UMich has one too. It's very cool, but the computers to support it are kept on raised flooring with monks that tend them. The cool thing about this project is that it uses commodity hardware as much as possible.

    (Hey Andrew, remember that conversation we had about synchronizing the output of several 3d cards? Looks like they did it!)

    1. Re:Yeah, but the SGI-based CAVE is expeeeensive! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative
      ...synchronizing the output of several 3d cards? Looks like they did it!)

      And they were not the first one

  20. Real Quake Arena by tonywestonuk · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Wouldn't it be cool if someone built an 'arena' which matched a level from quake. People would ware a standard VR helmet, and a portable PC, and 'run' around the real areana, and be able to touch the walls, but only see whats presented them through the VR headset. There would be some sort of radio triangulation, which would track everyones position within the room, and relay the information back to a main server....- This would put Qzar/Laser quest to shame!

    T.

    1. Re:Real Quake Arena by Sabalon · · Score: 1

      Yeah...I wanna run around a level with ledges and stuff with a VR helmet on.

    2. Re:Real Quake Arena by vrmlknight · · Score: 1

      Would I be able to rocket jump????

      --
      This must be Thursday, I never could get the hang of Thursdays.
    3. Re:Real Quake Arena by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would I be able to rocket jump????

      sure...once.

    4. Re:Real Quake Arena by Turing+Machine · · Score: 1

      As mentioned above, Quake has already been ported to the Cave. You can even play over the network from the Cave UIUC with someone playing in the Cave at UI-Chicago.

  21. LGPL by steel+sky · · Score: 1

    Wow! Open sourced 3D cave software! Now we just need to port over the matix, star wars, etc. and build one in my living room.

  22. Get a dictionary, guys. by Manuka · · Score: 2

    ITYM "Immersive". If "Emersive was a word, It would probably mean something to the effect of "coming out of".

  23. I used to want a Holodeck by NickFusion · · Score: 1

    But then I got a girlfriend.

    The reason they can't convince you you're standing in a box has to do with the inherent boxness of the space in which you stand.

    Bigger TV == Still TV

    TV != Life

    --
    What were you expecting?
    1. Re:I used to want a Holodeck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I was at UI (93-97), I had couple of friends with access to the CAVE:

      1) It was cool, but a lot of the rendering can be done today with cheaper hardware. Glad to see someone's doing it.

      2) Belive me, your eys can really fool you. There was a demo program called "cathedral" where you walked around a bulding (it was poorly-textured polygons, bu the shading was right...think like something from "The Mind's Eye". My friend led us up soem stairs...and walked off the top. Even though we knew we were in a simulation, everyone reflexively flinched.

      3) Chicks dig the CAVE. I can't explain it.

  24. Re:Jeeeeez I am a dump fucking shit but.... by Bander · · Score: 1
    ITYM dumb fucking shit...

    Bander

  25. or, slap a few spell-checkers by mysticbob · · Score: 1
    or, slap a few spell-checkers together and call it immersive.

    they call them editors for a reason.

  26. Tasty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    &lt chant &gt
    Quake! Quake! Quake! Quake! Quake!
    &lt/chant&gt

  27. NAVE by davechen · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They have a similar system at Georgia Tech, called the NAVE. It's a three sided, small scale cave. The interesting thing about it is that they did it on the cheap. Just a bunch of students with hammers and nails to put it together. I think they said it cost 60 grand total in parts.

    The PC's driving the walls were running Windows. So when we got a demo, they rebooted the machines first off. They said to clear out all the OS cruft. The synchronization between the walls was not very good at times. I'd say large fractions of a second. Thats the one thing a big SGI gets you, really tight synchronization between the walls.

    dave chen

  28. Genlock? by SpatialJ · · Score: 0
    Yes, I looked through the available doc, but I could not find information on synchronization of the video, did anybody find out? (AFAIK, there are quite a few ambitious projects related to PC-cluster-based CAVEs. The biggest issue is (was?) not the distribution of tracker-input, scenegraph-syncs or other problems but the genlock: In "standard"-multipipe-IRIX-setups the projectors involved changed images in sync (as needed by the shutter-glasses), but to do so with 6 individual graphic boards in 6 individual boxes is (was?) quite a hard task.

    Anybody?

    Nice project anyways, cheers
    Jakob

  29. emersive? emesis really rocks! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i hope they supply basins and buckets in clusters

  30. *IMMERSIVE* not *EMERSIVE*?? by aphor · · Score: 1

    I'm not sure that emersive is even a word. However, immersive, adj. (immerse, verb: to place an object within something else), in this case, means to place the computer user within the computer interface.

    If emigrate/egress (to leave) is the opposite of immigrate/ingress (to arrive), then maybe emersive means to place the user outside of the interface.

    Is there an inside joke or other good reason for using emersive? I'm not really complaining about spelling as much as "WTF does this confusing term really mean?" Really, does anyone have a story for this or is it just a speling mistake?

    --
    --- Nothing clever here: move along now...
    1. Re:*IMMERSIVE* not *EMERSIVE*?? by yatest5 · · Score: 1

      Jesus dude, if every time you see a spelling error you decide to assume it's some word you're going to have a real hard time living in this imperfect world! The typo and the correct word were even phonetically similar!

      --
      • Mod parent up! [a] by Anonymous Coward (Score:5) Thurs, June 31, @13:37
    2. Re:*IMMERSIVE* not *EMERSIVE*?? by aphor · · Score: 1

      The real problem here is that technology is hard to understand, and the people who can understand it are too few to pay for it. This creates the need to *sell* it to idiots and dummies (like in the books) or business suits who don't even care about the technology.

      Cutting to the chase: the sales-weasels of high technology (Which the UofI and NCSA have become in the wake of NCSA Mosaic's effect on the WWW) like to coin meaningless words to name their projects so that people who aren't capable of understanding the technology can still recognise it. What I care about is when people lampoon this practice by creating a silly name with some kind of inside joke for the people who *DO* understand the technology. I was just fishing.

      --
      --- Nothing clever here: move along now...
  31. Re:#include "Wry smile.h" by -brazil- · · Score: 1
    Their source is GPL'd; it could be modified to use standard or flat monitors in a downsized setting.


    Sure, only the result would be a total waste of effort, not much more immersive than using a single monitor.

    --

    The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.
    --Henry Kissinger

  32. Re:Holly deck by MaxwellStreet · · Score: 1

    Couldn't agree more. It's a small gaffe, but . . .

    Makes you kind of wish they kept a windows box around to do spell checking, doesn't it? *ducks*

  33. VR name confusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and I thought this had to do with the Alice VR authoring system from CMU, which has been out there for years. http://alice.org/

  34. Re:#include "Wry smile.h" by Mike+Connell · · Score: 3, Funny

    Noting that this is clustering software for a *CAVE*.

    1. You can't use "standard or flat monitors" in any form of "downsized setting", because unless you are 6 inches high, it's not going to be immersive. You can't stand in the cubic space formed by the faces of 6 monitors, flat or not, unless you are a person of very very small stature. Even if you can find a 6" high person to get in this contraption, they'll probably get fried by all the EM radition & heat after a few minutes, so you'll need a supply of these people...

    2. Bringing up kernel.org looks like blatent karma-whoring - it's completely irrelevant. The problems you missed, and which I pointed out to you in my first post are the physical problems - you have to build an immersive space environment - a physical one - out of wood. You can't email an 12 foot high wooden structure around on the internet you know!

    3. (You need a big room for this) "Unless you downsize it". Oh sure, if you can also "downsize" your users. You have to build something that you can get inside of. There's a limit to downsizing - at the limit is your body!

    If you're only going to use a powerwall or something it's a different kettle of fish, and you can just hook up WireGL or something of that nature with what I expect will be a lot less effort.

    So as I attempted to point out (and obviously failed) in my first post - there are real physical engineering problems that make the construction of your own CAVE environment much much harder than downloading some code and playing with the configuration files.

    0.02

  35. We (Virginia Tech) got one too! by drumerboy · · Score: 1

    Virginia Tech has a CAVE for VR too. The use it for everything from doing research to well... a little gaming (after all it never hurt anyone). If your interested more information can be found here. They have numerous featured projects, click here if your interested.

  36. Iowa State's Immersive Environments by john@iastate.edu · · Score: 3, Informative

    ISU has probably the premier researcher in this area, Dr. Carolina Cruz-Neira. Here's some info on the environments at ISU: C6 and more...

    --
    Shut up, be happy. The conveniences you demanded are now mandatory. -- Jello Biafra
    1. Re:Iowa State's Immersive Environments by patrickh2 · · Score: 1

      And we musn't forget about Iowa State University's free (LGPL'd) software for developing immersive environments, VR Juggler.

  37. IVE at CU-Boulder by TheMatt · · Score: 1

    CU recently opened a similar system as well. It's a three-sided "immersive visualization environment." Not quite as cool as the CAVE, but good. Nice SGI computers running it as well. My friend who has seen it in stereo mode says it is quite nice. I want to try Quake in it.

    --

    Fortran programmer...oh yeah. Array math for life!

    1. Re:IVE at CU-Boulder by bartle · · Score: 1

      Hey, would this be The Matt who would know who I am? Or is this another Matt? If it's the former, good to see you on Slashdot. If it's the latter, nevermind.

  38. Why cheap VR is important (one reason) by 3seas · · Score: 2

    Post Tramatic Stress Disorder treatment - The cheaper it is the more that can be helped sooner.

  39. Sync? by russianspy · · Score: 1

    Synchronizing those beast must be a @$$#. Trackers are also important. For a really immersive environment you basically need to respond to the user within 2-3 frames (MAX). I'm working at U of Alberta (Canada). We're running Onyx 2 with 6 processors (it has a fiberoptic connection to our supercomputer - 128 processors/ I think between 512M - 1Gig Ram/processor). 3 screens refreshed at 60 frames a second (although in a real 3d mode they're effectively refreshed 30 times/second/eye). Not only do you get it to fill almost all of your vision, it also LOOKS 3d.
    As a side note. I've talked to one of the profs in charge of our CAVE. He plans to write a game for it in his grad level VR class. (I couldn't get in that - it was allready full - I guess there is always next year). The possibilities are endless. How would you like to play a first person shooter where you have a sensor in the gun that tracks where you're actually poining? As well as tracking where you're looking at, (movement is always difficult in a CAVE environment), optical tracking that can recognize the 3d shape of your body so when you duck - you duck! Enough processing power to easily calculate whether the incoming ray/bullet/whatever intesected with your body in realtime. Nearly unlimited memory for levels/details. Possibly even sattelite connection to another CAVE system to make it multiplayer!
    Anyone drooling yet?

    1. Re:Sync? by psamuels · · Score: 1
      Possibly even sattelite connection to another CAVE system to make it multiplayer!

      Remember your physics ... the speed of light ... going to and from a satellite adds quite a few milliseconds to your latency. Latency is bad for FPS (and in this case we're talking really first-person) games.

      --
      "How can you claim that you are anti-crack, while still writing a window manager?" — Metacity README
  40. a free 6x CAVE ? what about EVL ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It seems like a free 6 sided cave-like software package (Syzygy) could step on the toes of what <a href="http://www.evl.uic.edu">EVL</a> at <a href="http://www.uic.edu">UIC</a> did with their CAVE software, and now sold by some one else. But you know, UIUC has always stepped on UIC (UIC is the bastard son of the UofI system). They have more money, time, and bigger facilities.

    I'd like one free LGPL 6x Syzygy cave, thank you.

  41. Cave Quake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have a friend who did some work on the CAVE 'bout a year back, when it was an SGI based platform. We messed around with the CAVE for about an hour (till i got motion sickness, yuck). They have cave quake working already, and it looks very good. I dont know if it works with this new ALICE thing, but it was awsome when i tried it. Best part was the gun was superimposed in 3D over your hand motion tracker which turned your entire arm into a rocket launcher. Then we commited virtual suicide for a bit (flying up in a virtual world and then turning on gravity), and rode the "vomit comet". There was also a neat module where you explored a 2D crayola universe. Think Parrapa the Rappa in VR with less rapping.

  42. Just to note... by mindstrm · · Score: 2

    The article sort of makes it sound like this is groundbreaking work for UIUC.
    UIUIC, if I'm not mistaken, is the location (or one of the locations) of the National Center for Supercompuing Applications (NCSA anyone?). They already HAVE a passel of really funky VR & immersive environments.. CAVE, versadesk, that funky classroom....
    So they did a 6 sided cave instead of the old one (3 or 4? I forget if the floor was done or not). I mean, it's great news.. and using linux is cool.. but really... It's interesting, not groundbreaking.

    As for those saying 'But they will need good synchronization and trackers'. It's NCSA. They have lots of this gear already.. they already have a cave, remember.

    Dammit. I was only a few minutes away from there on my travels once.... I wish I could have gone for a tour.

    1. Re:Just to note... by specify · · Score: 1

      Well, IIRC, this isn't an NCSA project, it's being run by the Beckman Institute. They do have the advantage, however, of being able to run upstairs and talk to the NCSA people who've been doing this stuff for quite a while now (and are located in the same building).

      I learned CAVE programming on the CAVE at NCSA; I hope I get the chance to play with this one some! (Not holding breath)

  43. ... and? by klocwerk · · Score: 0

    Whoopdie frickin dodads.
    Yes it's big, but I entirely fail to be impressed by this.
    The website makes it out to be some monumental undertaking which will change the world of immersive AI.
    umm... no?

    1: this is bearly immersive. It's a 360 degree monitor with 8 shadowy corners. You can't move in it, you just sit there and point at things.

    2: why not make it spherical, and put it on ball-bearings so that the user can actually move around?

    3: I'll concede that from a software point of view it's pretty dang neat to be rendering the same scene from 6 angles and syncing them up.

    All in all I don't think it's even a very useful system. The Sharper Image has been selling 10 foot curved screens that you sit in front of for awhile now if you've got the cash.
    And until we manage holographic projectors I'll be content to use head-mounted VR glasses that at least present everything you need to see at once in 3d.

    Just an opinion.

    --

    "You worthless post!"
    -Shakespeare, 2 Gentlemen of Verona, 1. 1. 147
  44. How long until Nolan Bushnell sues? by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 3, Insightful

    He originally wanted to name his company "Syzygy"...

    --
    You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
  45. Non-Euclidean geometry by JJ · · Score: 2

    To recreate stereo vision, it actually is more appropriate to utilize non-Euclidean geometry. In this specific case, an infinite number of parallel lines go thru a single point. Does anybody know if this system uses such? It would require a fairly massive refit to standard graphics programs.

    --
    So long and thanks for all the fish . . . !!!
  46. Been there, done that.. by nr · · Score: 1
    Cool. We actualy have the first installed TAN cube in the world here at KTH (Royal Institute of Technology) Stockholm, Sweden. Ours are feeded by two SGI Onyx 2000's which each have 3 pipelines each feeding all 6 projectors.

    You can see the pictures of it here:
    http://www.pdc.kth.se/projects/vr-cube/photo-galle ry.html

  47. Re:Just to note... -- the CAVE is awesome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I visited the CAVE at UIUC's NCSA a few years ago. It's awesome. As far as I can remember it was 4-sided: top, front, left, and right walls. After spending a few minutes peeking around 3-D objects in the CAVE, my impusle was to do the same on regular monitors. :-)

  48. Stereo options by Elazro · · Score: 2, Informative
    Unfortunately, you can not use 6 LCD projectors if you want to view stereo. There are two options for stereo viewing that are considered: passive and active stereo. The latter requires special shutter glasses (which come in prices of $20 to $600), and the former just requires simple polarized glasses like you get at a 3D Imax.

    However, LCD projectors can not do active stereo. The projector displays the left eye view and the right eye view sequentially, and the active glasses (which must be somehow synchronized to the projector) block the right and left eyes sequentially. So at any given time, one eye is viwing an image, and the other sees pure black. If the refresh rate is too low, then the stereo starts to become flickery. And uncomfortable to the eyes. You can view stereo with a 60Hz display, but for most people, five minutes is about all they can stand. At 96Hz, one can view stereo comfortably for quite a while. 120 hz is even nicer.

    From what I understand, LCD panels can't achieve these speeds (something to do with the energy requirements, and especially the cooling requirements, going up exponentially with Hz) One can use CRT projectors, or DLP projectors (I saw such a CAVE at EVL in Chicago, birthplace of the original CAVE)

    With passive stereo, LCD's can be used - basically you just shine 2 projectors fitted with polarized filters at each screen, spend about a week aligning everything, and you're ready to go (special lenses may be needed so that alignment can actually succeed)

    Now, there actually are some other options - the least interesting one is anaglyphic stereo (red/blue glasses). We'll let that one slide.

    However, many new auto-stereoscopic technologies (glasses-less) are being developed.

    There is lenticular - based on the same principle as those doodads you used to get in cereal boxes, where the picture would change when you rotated the thing. Now those things only had 2 images, and you had to rotate it 30 degrees to change the image. But you can make 'em so fine that each eye sees a different image. Put a display behind it, and you have autostereo. see here

    One of the funkiest methods I've heard of being tried is to use pupil tracking. To understand this, you need to know that the eye is a very low resolution 'camera' for the most part. However, in the dead center of the retina, there is an extremely dense set of receptors called the fovea. It covers only about 1-2 degrees of arc, and this is where your eye picks up pretty much all of the detail.

    Now, if you use pupil tracking (which can be done without the viewer having to wear any special equipment), then you can determine the region of the screen each eye's fovea is covering, and draw the corresponding image there. I haven't found an online reference to this yet, but I think it's a cool, if not a little difficult, solution to autostereo.

    -matt

  49. Re:#include "Wry smile.h" by Benley · · Score: 2
    3. (You need a big room for this) "Unless you downsize it". Oh sure, if you can also "downsize" your users. You have to build something that you can get inside of. There's a limit to downsizing - at the limit is your body!

    Really, it doesn't have to take up *that* much space. I've worked in the CAVE before, and while it's somewhat large, there's no reason it couldn't be made smaller these days, given that three-gun CRT projectors are outmoded, and with a single gun projector you could use much smaller mirrors. Make the walls 6' high, and you'd need a room maybe 15' by 15', perhaps 20' by 20' to get the job done. And the ceiling needs to be maybe 8' tall, given some planning. (the CAVE system doesn't have a ceiling surface, but it has a floor - there's a projector pointed straight down via a mirror).

    Granted, the 12 CPU Onyx2 (named Cassatt) takes up some room... but that is physically located in a different room in the Beckmann setup, and video is piped in.
    So basically you need:
    • 4 LCD projectors, at a minimum of $1200 or so each for cheesy ones.
    • 3 rear projection surfaces - since we're using cheap projectors, you may as well use white bedsheets attached to a homebuilt wooden frame
    • 3 or 4 small-ish mirrors, unless you've got room to put the projectors all around the area.
    • (the biggie) Lots of CPU, and software.
    Thankfully, the software mentioned in the article is freely available, so that takes some cost out of the problem. Now you just need a minimum of 4 graphics pipes, say $200/each GeForce2 or whatever's available, and machines to put them in. Perhaps with some nice fast interconnects - gigabit ethernet will do in a pinch, there isn't such a need for things like Myrinet anymore, although Myrinet is doing some truly wicked things these days (2+2 gigabit full-duplex networking!)

    But I digress. As you can see, it's doable.

  50. Re:#include "Wry smile.h" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the article talks about a 6 sided CAVE, which includes ceiling and back wall as opposed to 2 sides, front and floor in a regular CAVE. for the 6 sided cave you DO need room, b/c you have to cast the floor's image from below. you also need a plexiglass cover for the bottom/floor screen b/c it wont support your weight. for a 9' square piece of plexiglass of appropriate thickness, we're looking at (i think) roughly 2000 lb's. so, i guess you do need more room than you thought. even if you built your floor (that weighs 2000lbs) 6 ft off the ground, it wont work b/c thats not far enough to be able to project the images onto it and have them be the right size. we're talking roughly 10ft (i'm guessing based on quick looks below the c6 at isu) plus a 9ft tall wall, plus room for the top projector to display the images correctly upon the ceiling screen. your 8ft tall room isn't going to work. anyway, for a true 6 sided immersive vr system, it's not really an easy "home project." and that's leaving out the tracking systems that you forgot to mention. w/o tracking, you arent going to be very immersed.
    -a vrac'er from isu

  51. CAVE is a waste of space by Saeger · · Score: 2
    MicroVision has the right idea in advancing the state of the [commercial] art in retinal scanning displays.

    CAVE, while a nice hack, is really a big waste of time, space, and money, when compared to the immersive advantages that RSD displays will bring to the mainstream in a few more years.

    I don't mean to knock the guys who work on CAVE... it's awesome considering current limitations...

    --

    --
    Power to the Peaceful
  52. called Syzygy? by zhensel · · Score: 2

    OK, so I go to UIUC and haven't heard of this. I'm only a freshman and not even in CS, so that seems probable. But get this - a road right next to my grandmother's house in good old, technologically backwards Inverness, Florida carries the exact same amazingly-lacking-in-common-vowels name on one of its roads. This is not even a normal road either. It's a road that goes for about five feet and then vanishes into a banal brown path. Now, I've got a fairly extensive vocabulary, but this word is utterly foreign to me. How could it possibly link the meager stretch of road in Inverness to an immersive virtual reality visualization system? Clearly a Google search was the first step in my investigation. I found that these are not the only products to carry this eclectic word as their name. We've got Syzygy.net, a european firm specializing in the creation of e-businesses, a page documenting religious cults, a hardcore eclectic videogame magazine, and, my first solid lead, a company selling astronomical simulators. The last seemed to be the only lead worth following, and a dictionary.com search ended my confusion. Apparently, Syzygy is the key point in an ecclipse when the sun, moon, and earth lie in a straight line. For what it's worth, you can also have multiple Syzygies, but that word is not nearly as fun what with its normal vowels. My quest is now complete. Alas, now I'm at a loss as to what I can do to forstall finding employ over winter break. Ideas are welcome.

    1. Re:called Syzygy? by Hassman · · Score: 1

      Winter break is all about temping. Its easy, its money, and well...its easy. :)

      --
      -Mark
      Dovie'andi se tovya sagain.
    2. Re:called Syzygy? by zhensel · · Score: 2

      Are you suggesting that I dabble in male prostitution? I'm perplexed.

  53. How about one thats already built? by timbong · · Score: 1

    Have you ever heard of the visbox? Its a cave system that is pre built and pre configured, www.visbox.com

  54. How to roll your own "CAVE" using this system... by cr0sh · · Score: 2

    Ok, you know about this system, and you know what goes into building a cave, right?:

    1. Several boxen
    2. This software
    3. Several projectors
    4. A tracking system
    5. 3D shutter glasses

    All of which can be expensive. If you aren't thinking. If you aren't hacking.

    Ok, you have the boxes and the software - that part is easy, and relatively cheap. But hey, six boxes can be expensive, especially when you are dropping good video cards into each. So what to do?

    Use three boxes instead. Each box should have a dual head card. Then build a three wall cave instead. Such a configuration can be done either as a front view and two sides, or "staring at a corner", that is, using two adjacent sides and the ceiling for the projection surfaces. The other two sides can be rigged with black velvet curtains to block light.

    Now, you need projectors. As we all know, such projectors aren't cheap - but they are coming down in price. If you can pick up six projectors (for stereo - two per wall) cheaply, more power to you. However, most of us won't be that lucky. So, what to do?

    Build your own projectors!

    This site was spun off, crazy as it sounds, from the 100 Inch TV list on the same server. The group is focusing on building video projectors using cheap and easy to get LCD TVs, etc. Robin Holland also wrote a VR Book that detailed such a projector (see my VR site for more details on that book) back in 1996 (as well as the 100 inch TV projector, but that was done by others before him and all this long ago, called the Warper for the AcidWarp program).

    Such projectors should prove not too difficult to build, and cheaply - but won't be high-res or anything - but they will be usable! I have a Fujix P-401 that is similar in design that is watchable, so I know what it would look like. If you build six of the projectors, you can use them with shutter glasses for stereo...

    So, you need shutter glasses! Where to get 'em cheaply? Try Ebay! Look at this link for the systems currently on auction. There are a ton! But how to get 3D with your cheap LCD projectors (or even normal projectors)? Well, buy a pair of LCD 3D glasses for yourself, then a pair for every two projectors! Each pair will have two shutter LCD light valves - pull those out of the glasses, and place in front of each projector's output, and sync those with the glasses on the user. You may need to add fans to blow across these shutters to keep them from being overheated by the projector light source. Instant cheap 3D (but it may give you a headache after extended use)...!

    So, now you need tracking. This is the really tough part - but it is possible to build this yourself. If you look at my site, you will notice that in Issue 2 of Cheap VR, I tell how to build a 3D magnetic tracker. Well, I have news for you: I have found someone who has done it, independently of my article (that is, he didn't know about my site or articles):

    Juan's Homemade Magnetic Tracker

    He has published a Circuit Cellar article on the tracker last August (2001) - detailing the construction and such. I was able to get a copy from him, and he says he plans on putting the article on his site for download. It looks like he is having traffic quota issues on part of the notes currently, but the PDF file will tell you a lot, and explains the math and theory behind it all (he covers a lot of things I didn't think of). Anyhow, notice in the pictures and movies that his hand is being moved inside a cube structure? That cube is the 3D tracker transmitter, similar in scope to what I wrote a long time ago. Anyhow - he has told me he is planning on building a 6 foot per side cube, to allow the tracker to track a user inside the cube. Check this: That cube structure can be your frame for the CAVE.

    Build a cube of sufficient size (6 foot per side or larger), add the coils, then add the projection screens (Want a cheap back projection screen? Use white-plastic painter's dropdown "cloths", or use clear plastic "cloths", then frost them with glass frosting paint. Finally, stretch the plastic on the frames). Put the edges right against each other, so that the "seams" between the screens are minimized. Use the homebrew projectors to project against them (for the dual projection system, place the projectors as close as possible together - there will be some keystoning, but hopefully not too much to cause major issues).

    There you have - a quick and easy CAVE system. Now, mind you, this won't be a simple construction project - not at all. Main reason is size, because you will need a room larger than the "inside" room you are building for the CAVE. But I can see this being done in a spare bedroom, or maybe a garage, given enough ingenuity.

    So, now that you have an idea - someone try it out (hell, I would if I had the room) - and email me and let me know how it works...

    --
    Reason is the Path to God - Anon
  55. CAVE actually developed at UIC by cant_get_a_good_nick · · Score: 1
    Though it's our sister school, we're always in the shadow of UI Urbana-Champaign (and the bastards always kick our ass in basketball), so I feel the need to say the CAVE was originally developed at UIC, University of Illinois-Chicago. I still remember being a freshman engineer and being shown around. It's on all the tours, kind of a "go to school here and you get to play with cool stuff like this".

    The CAVE was developed by Dr. Tom DeFanti in the EVL (web site currently sucky). DeFanti has been in graphics for a long time, even doing all the CG for the original Star Wars. You can find some interesting stuff at Dave's CAVE pages.

  56. Arg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For god's sake, can't someone mention VR without a lame reference to the Holodeck?

  57. This is a BILLION dollar industry. by CrazyJim0 · · Score: 1

    Check it. I wrote the specs on a new type of video gesture interface using a person's body position as input.... Add in some holograms(if possible) and you have the next gen video fighting games, or control for robotic warriors in a field of war

    www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~sager

  58. Big f*'ing deal... by Assmasher · · Score: 1

    There isn't anything new involved here. All you need is the projectors... LOL. It isn't even a difficult computing problem. Nor a difficult problem to 'lock' multiple CPU's rendering multiple windows (all a CAVE actually is.) U of I hasn't done anything that hasn't been possible since 1996 (even earlier technologically.)

    --
    Loading...
  59. Re:#include "Wry smile.h" by psamuels · · Score: 2
    So basically you need:
    • 4 LCD projectors, at a minimum of $1200 or so each for cheesy ones.

    Cheesy is right. I imagine for that money you get 800x600 resolution. A 1280x1024 projector is thousands more. But anyway...

    • 3 rear projection surfaces - since we're using cheap projectors, you may as well use white bedsheets attached to a homebuilt wooden frame

    You want something that won't flap in the breeze. To get any decent focusing you need F-L-A-T.

    Skip the floor projection, I guess - it would require a hard screen - think mid-five-figure range for quality, I dunno how cheap you could go. The sides could perhaps use latex, for which the big boys would still want at least four figures per each ... guess it would depend on size. I'm not sure offhand what you could build on the cheap, but I strongly suspect that bed sheets wouldn't cut it.

    • 3 or 4 small-ish mirrors

    ...and mounts which let you adjust at least one angle - you don't want to hard-code this or your final adjustments will Not Be Fun. Also, I don't know if this is critical for a "budget CAVE", but for our VR center here we have front-silvered mirrors - for obvious-I-hope reasons.

    • Lots of CPU, and software.

    Yeah. And not just CPU but lots of motherboard bandwidth - you'll probably want 66MHz and/or 64-bit PCI for the GigE, and the same (or AGP4x) for graphics.

    --
    "How can you claim that you are anti-crack, while still writing a window manager?" — Metacity README
  60. Immersive Technology Direction by mackermacker · · Score: 0

    CAVE technology in general is making rapid advances, and *home versions are in the making, particularly for gaming. Up until now the Beckman Institute had a 4 screen version, which is great. Although a 6 screen version is better, that too will be outdated within years.

    Anyone attending SigGraph 2000/01 probably couldn't miss the elumens "little" home caves that you sit in [it looks like a big soup bowl sitting on its side and it ROCKS!!. check it out here Although it only provides a 180 degrees, the immersive effects are great, and there are no corners. This was also created by a former NCSA employee of the Immersive Environments Group. For 20k you can own the technology today.

    People like Rajlich who created the multiusr quake are also exploring bringing CAVE/immersive tech. to the home gamer.

    Clustering Linux boxes may be a cheaper alternative to SGI (takes 1 realityMonster? per screen), but obvioulsy is difficult using any computer to get them working in sync to be able to render 4-6 screens 10x10 ft. 3000 some times/sec. Linux and applications are making great advances, and the market will shift away from SGI.

    VRCO.com has already ported the CAVEGL to linux, allowing you run VR apps using the cave graphics library on top of OpenGL. 6 screens is great, but in several years this wont be a big deal.

    The AIM LAB@UIUC , headed by the ultimate VR guru John Schmits, and the Morrill I Digital Library are working on bringing this type of technology to libraries (immersive workstations you sit in, quickly and efficiently allowing you to find your resources ) Studies have shown that we learn better and are more used to a 3d environment [debatable]. Surgeons use it to allow remote multi-user teachings of the temporal bone using CAVE environments . With all the uses of Immersive technology popping up, you wont see 6 sided caves, but rather spheres you walk into, providing the best VR.

    As the Legendary Donna Cox puts it, the future is in multi-user VR immersive environments in which avatars congregate for business and pleasure. Multi-user gaming is also driving the technology very quickly, so dont be surprised to see more posts on VR and its uses...

    VRdot.org???

    ***GREATfirewalls are so hard to find***

  61. Re:#include "Wry smile.h" by Mike+Connell · · Score: 2

    I am fighting and losing a battle with my "last word" neurons :-)

    As you can see, it's doable.
    "CAVE on the cheap" is clearly doable: it's already been done with the NAVE, and the "Wedge".

    Really, it doesn't have to take up *that* much space.
    The article mentioned a 6 sided CAVE. It's the floor/ceiling setup that require the extra vertical space. If you dont have them, of course you need less space.

    0.02

  62. Not really new by tholti · · Score: 1

    This is not really new. At the Fraunhofer institute of Industrial Engineering (IAO) in Germany they already have 6-sided cave running, that uses PC based passive stereo or SGI Onyx based active stereo. A description can be found here.