Slashdot Mirror
Moxi Digital's Future Convergence Box Announced
Many readers have submitted news of a new do-everything media box being hyped at CES. Fofer writes: "Steve Perlman, the founder of WebTV, is attempting to infiltrate the living room again, but this time it looks like he's on to something. Officially unveiled at CES 2002, the Moxi Media Center is a souped-up digital media server with an 80-gigabyte hard drive. It can deliver, to as many as four televisions, video recorded from a TV signal off of its integrated cable/satellite receiver, video or audio downloaded to the hard drive or from a built-in DVD/CD player. ...
Articles with more info are here(1) and here(2)." When a product is still vapor, it's pretty easy to make it buzzword-compliant, too, and this one is supposed to work with Macs and IBM-style PCs, be based on Linux, work with Firewire drives, etc. Read the linked PR stuff to find out more.
Moxie was a Soda company popular in the 1920's and on.
Any company with a patent in the Digital Recorder area (Tivo, Replay, MS?) will likely sue them to try to stop the competition.
A DVD recorder to archive recorded TV shows to something better than VHS would also be nice. The Firewire port would allow this once the price goes down.
My question is, though, is, if this comes into being, will it run into the same copyright issues and whatnot that the ReplayTV 4000, with the ability to send video over ethernet is coming under fire for?
01101001 01100001 01101101 01101110 01101111 01110100 01100001 01101100 01100001 01110111 01111001 01100101 01110010
I already have a "digital media server" that supports instant messaging, email, DVDs and CDs. It's my computer.
The link from the article directs to a 'next' page, then back to the original. I was trying to find pricing info on this still vaporware item. Anybody know how many ducketts this will set ya back?
------
Random, useless fact: I type in startx entirely with my left hand.
I read about that! It looked very interesting! :)
Supposedly you're supposed to be able to hook up all rooms in your house with one machine, for almost no money at all!
Oh, yeah and it's a gateway/router/firewall too! Pretty neat thought!
I read it on The Register last night
Any technology distinguishable from magic, is insufficiently advanced.
And make julienned fries and walk my dog and find my car keys and defrost my freezer and shampoo my unmentionables.
Like the poster said, it's pretty vapor. I'll believe it when I see it. And probably buy one then, too.
Hmm, looks like it has a flash interface. Maybe it's just my system, but Flash doesn't run very well for me under Linux. I have a 900MHz CPU, but flash animations, especially games, are very, very slow. How will they overcome that?
I know I'll get modded for redundant but hey, I wonder how much it will cost. I'm guessing this will be a > $1,000 device. Butm an, if it really can do all it says, maybe it would be worth it.
*crosses fingers* DVD playback with progressive output would be nice, too.
Moderation: Put your hand inside the puppet head!
To connect multiple TV's to one cable signal, satellite signal, PVR, etc..., just use Leap Frog (there's a wireless one, too, check the website).
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
From the product page:
"Due to licensing restrictions, remote DVD playback is not available in homes using wireless networking."
What kind of licensing restrictions is this referring to? How would they even know that there is wireless networking?
Also at CES is a demo of interactive DVD set top boxes. All this convergence and integration, and this Moxi box doesn't even offer this feature. For now I think I shall keep my money for other things until the market matures... I'll let those people with more money than sense be guinnea pigs for this kind of technology.
Nokia announced their Mediaterminal last year and it just now available
Meanwhile my Mac+iPod works fine. And DVD players are, what, $150? I don't see why this is of any value.
sulli
RTFJ.
AM I the only one that wants modularity in his components? I mean if my dvd player fails, will the whole system crap out? Same goes for those gamecube/dvd player combos....i would prefer two seperate components...am I missing something??
I SURVIVED THE GREAT SLASHDOT BLACKOUT OF 2002!
Here we go again: yet another company with an unsound business plan trying to build a product on the back of Linux. What is it about Linux that attracts so many of these rodents? Bad Business Plan + Linux = VC? Nothing against Linux, but it seems to hatch so many of these hairbrained businesses. Moxi Digital = the Future of Convergence? I think not. Who's going to pay to license their crap...Hope they've patented convergence. VCs -- say buh-bye to your money.
Interesting, VERY interesting. But I wonder, who provides this? Do I buy it and put it in my house and use it to interface with my cable provider? That seems difficult...will my cable/internet provider support this?
:)
Seems like a better solution would be for my cable provider to buy this, give/rent it to me per month, and let me go wild. The idea of being able to stream content to 4 TV's is great!! Would I be able to watch one channel and record another? Watch two channels on two TV's, and only have to deal with the one settop (Moxi)? In theory, I ought to since cable decode and PVR are all in one unit.
Frankly, this is damn exciting! I've been very interested in PVR's for awhile now, they are quite cool, but I always look at them and go "If it only had....". This might be it!!
Finally......how much?
Wear the new Moxi Pad while bicycling, swimming, and watching DVDs! Keeps you feeling fresh all day!
you're upset because it doesn't have some demo on it?
His Palo Alto, Calif.-based company is also announcing a name change, to Moxi Digital Inc. from Rearden Steel Technologies.
Looks like an Ayn Rand fan.
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
I'm sure digital insertion will be possible as well.
When a product is still vapor, ...
Well, according the "specs", this thing is not that hard to build. It's basically a computer with the right interface for TV and sound system.
It's still vapor right now for sure, but there's nothing in this device (according the description) that requires anything not developed yet. If you have the $ and patience, you too can build one yourself.
"Due to licensing restrictions, remote DVD playback is not available in homes using wireless networking." I think two areas cover this. First the VCR type lawsuits and secondly the tape and later digital muxic lawsuits. Why can't I make my own personnal copy? Why can't I watch it from any device I so wish? They're basically saying you use their device or no device on this one, and who are they to say that you can't use one tv over another, or watch on you laptop? I think more than anything they're saying that you cannot use anything EXCEPT this device. They don't have to support it, but let's see if I can't grab a screwdriver and put it in.
These media-driven boxes look wonderful, but seem to stop one step short of being a general-purpose computing platform.
It seems like this is the direction that the Powers That Be would like everything to go: a set-top box that will replace your stereo, TV, VCR, DVD player, game console, etc. Then add the ability to stream and/or download content (media and web) from a broadband connection. This is very likely the eventual destination of both the X-Box and the PS2. This would encompass about 90% of what the average homeowner does with their PC. It would be easier to use than a PC, though, and definitely take a bite out of the latter's market share.
This would please many companies to no end. Microsoft would sell the box, the latest version of Windows NT/2K/XP would drive it, and transactions consummated over it could be Passport/.NET-driven. The game companies have already moved toward console games, with their high markup value and ease of programming for a completely fixed computing environment.
The content providers (and RIAA and MPAA) would love to see a sealed-box platform, with digital rights management much harder to defeat. This would be the (ostensibly) secure conduit though which they can deliver movies, audio, etc, in pay-for-play format.
I wonder what will become of the general-purpose computer?
"Can't you see that everyone is buying station wagons?"
how you like 2800000th post?
2800000th post in your mutha fuckin face!
And it won't even talk to my 'fridge to see if I need milk? What kind of convergence is this?
I think it can sell well just as a super-DVR. We have two Tivos already, thinking about a third for another TV in another room. If this box can serve up content to four sets from a central location, it would eliminate our desire for multiple DVRs. It's not that we want to record that many programs; we just watch them in different places.
Further, since the Moxi incorporates the content management that studios lust after, it is likely to be very well received. It's easy to imagine studios providing all sorts of exclusive offerings for the Moxi to undercut interest in vanilla Tivo and Replay systems. Couple that with a new round of lawsuits from studios, and competing technologies may die on the vine. Again, Joe Six-pack won't care, may not even notice, as long as the studios don't get too greedy.
(IMO, the studios' unbridled greed is the only reason they don't already own the digital entainment market. If they would settle for 90% of the potential profit instead of shooting for 120%, most consumers would happily line up behind whatever they - the studios - supported. But I digress.)
The interesting angle will be how many companies launch competing-but-incompatible systems. Again, I could see greedy studios trying to establish their own tech instead of signing up with Moxi. If this new product family gets bogged down in yet another format war, it may become just another footnote on the road to Microsoft's domination of digital entertainment. Or, MS may preempt the whole thing by buying it (again).
This will be interesting to watch no matter how it plays out.
just a few days ago i was discussing digital-vcrs with a friend and i was stating that i wouldn't buy a device that lacks a dvd/mp3 player.
Seems like they finally got it. Sad thing that i live in germany, though. I wonder when we will see this thing over here, if ever.
But basically that's the idea, a central device, only drawback is the 80gig hd. I bet it's full real soon. Wouldn't it be great to have the option to add more disks or store stuff on the family server? But then again, why don't i just stick with my pc? It all comes down to that point in the end.
Neat machine anyways...
cu,
Lispy
Hmmm... how exactly do they know you're using a wireless network? Is there a configuration option somewhere?
As for my 2 cents, I'd prefer the computer as the ultimate command center. Why? Like other people have mentioned, pretty much all the pieces are already there. Furthermore, and perhaps more importantly, the software and hardware in the computer world are standardized commodities that can be mixed and matched to your preference (e.g. you can have a linux/windows/mac box with your choice of graphics cards, DVD drives, and PVR software) allowing for competition and best-of-breed components. This is in comparison to the "black box" philosophy of cable boxes and their ilk. Furthermore, as for resolution of display, TV sucks compared to even the lowest resolution monitors these days...
On the other hand, I guess I can understand that not everyone is able to mix and match components and put together their own customized system and would like nothing more than to plug in an appliance that does everything they want it to do.
I guess it boils down to the same debate between people who build their own computers specifying everything down to the CPU fan vs. those who buy a complete system pre-loaded and configured with every software program they need to run.
Dec 24, 2002 : Officially unveiled at the CES show earlier this week, the much awaited Moxi Media Center, created by former WebTV founder Steve Pearlman, will definitely not hit the shelves in time for Christmas.
"This is a huge disappointment for media lovers" declared Pearlman. "If people can't even play their own Super-8 tapes anymore, what does this mean for the future of the entertainment industry, I ask you ?". Originally scheduled to be a powerful media center capable of delivering as many as four televisions, video recorded from a TV signal off of its integrated cable/satellite receiver and video or audio downloaded to the hard drive or from a built-in DVD/CD player, pressures from the MPAA (movie picture association of America) and the RIAA (recording industry association of America) have gradually forced Moxi to reduce the scope of the Moxi Media Center to a simple Super-8 video player and vinyl disk (LP) player.
However, the MPAA still isn't satisfied with the Moxi Media Center's current feature list, and has launched an unprecedented lawsuit against Moxi. "The [MPAA] has to protect the interests of the studios, and therefore the interest of the American public" said MPAA president Jack Valenti yesterday "If we let anybody play their bootleg Super-8 videos, the world won't turn round anymore !".
Steve Pearlman is scheduled to organize an emergency meeting of Moxi's board of director : "We could conceivably turn the Moxi Media Center into a very nice looking multi-function shelf made of first-grade oak wood, that would serve video tapes and CDs on demand. The only remaining obstacle right now is to obtain the RIAA's approval for using the standard "12cm CD size"[tm], which should take no more than 6 month and should add no more than $2 on each Moxi Media Center's pricetag" said Pearlman. "As you can see, the public can count on Moxi to deliver new innovative media solutions that conform with the law".
does anyone else notice that if this box is doing all this stuff at once, PVR, transmitting tv signals to 4 different tv's, acting as a gateway/router, etc., its gonna need to be a powerhorse. i have a hard time believing that it can do all of those things simultaneously without some serious performance cut backs.
Am I the only one not releasing a convergence box? I'm so behind the times.
Stop the Slashdot Effect! Don't read the articles!
It may be just this cold getting me down, and I actually already have a home-builds DVR (ati All-in-wonderpro 128 and 40gb hd, software to burn VCD from the captures - results playable on my DVD player), but I'm not going to invest anything in entertainment hardware the next few years.
The thing is, well, I actually record a lot of stuff using this machinery, but the truth is that I rarely watch it - not even when I'm home with a cold. Why, you ask - well, most of it is actually crap. There's so little on tv that I havent already seen at the cinema or brought on DVD a long time ago.
Damn it, this evenings top selection of movies in Denmark for people with the big cable selection is : Twister (Helen Hunt) and Company Business (Gene Hackman). There are other options, but the core of is that these movies has been shown on tv like a bazillion time before and will be shown at least as many times again. Why should I record one of these movies? Will I ever wake up one morning and say to my self: "Wow! I really wish that I could watch Twister with Helen Hunt right now!"?
I dont think so! That will happen maybe sometime in the future where I've lost all sense of value and taste and Twister has gone public domain a long time ago, so I'll just download it directly to my home entertainment system in about 123ms.
There's just not enought quality stuff on TV to justify an expensive digital recording system (compared to the price of a VCR).
Maybe the replay-function would be interesting if I where interested in sports, but I'm not.
Maybe when the total package (Digital Video Recorder, hyper-multichannel, digital widescreen wallmounted TV) becomes payable I'll look into it.
TC - My Photos..
wtf is up with the friend, foe, neutral crap?
"I want one of those! Yes! Those!"
"IT SLICES IT DICES IT MOOSHES IT SQUOOSHES!!!
I'LL TAKE SIX DOZEN, THANK YOU!!!"
"No more late night TV, Opus?"
"YES, I THINK THAT'D BE BEST!"
So it will cost more than an Xbox but not play Xbox games.
It is closer to a barebones computer with large hard drive in price - because that what it's components are from. Hopefully they have removed some of the standard PC problems though. E.g., boot faster, tolerant of power-offs and less power hungry.
Be sure to read the last paragraph from the SJ Mercury News article:
Hmm.
Take your random numbers and SHOVE THEM UP YOUR ARSE!
From the NY Times:
Mr. Perlman takes an engineer's pride in describing the company's solution to the problem of converting the contents of compact discs into MP3 files that can be stored digitally. Moxi has designed a specialized device, which would be rented to consumers on an hourly basis, that uses powerful microprocessors to convert 100 CD's an hour and store them as digital files. He said Moxi had taken significant pains to protect the digital rights of music and video content producers. The system uses cryptography extensively to place barriers against illegal sharing of copyrighted material, the kind of trading that got the Napster music-swapping service into legal trouble.
Forget it.
sulli
RTFJ.
So my family want to watch the same TV program in front of 4 different TV sets in 4 different locations in the house? Unless it can deliever 4 different programs at same time, I am not interested.
Questions:
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Max, the 4 eyes.
Wasn't that one of the words rags like "Wired" threw around when they were tooting their "The net changes everything"? Kinda like, "We aren't affected by the business cycle, we're in the new e-conomy". Or "Let's give away cheapo barcode scanners and milk people for consumer demographics".
Yeah, that's the ticket.
" I read about that! It looked very interesting! :)"
Supposedly you're supposed to be able to hook up all rooms in your house with one machine, for almost no money at all! Oh, yeah and it's a gateway/router/firewall too! Pretty neat thought! I read it on The Register [theregister.co.uk] last night
Every time I look at something like this on slashot I really think of why it's necessary. I like the versatility of having individual divices to meet individual needs.
The death of one man is a tragedy; the death of a million is a statistic --Joseph Stalin
There are so many groups attempting to build this holy grail of technology. For those not falling off the bleeding edge of techno hype, convergence devices for the most part promise to distribute voice, video, and data to the home consumer through one service. This service will also provide for some type of QOS, such that, your phone conversation doesn't die when little johnny pulls the entire season of jackie chan adventures. Convergence devices are also going to be responsible for having your toaster talk to your PDA, so that from your car, you can order up a nice warm pop tart that will be waiting for you after the evening commute.
/. post on MS's new device), XBox is in the best position to be a home convergence device. I'm sure that's what MS had in mind all along when they designed the system initially. They just needed a foothold into the living room. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next version of XBox it will act as a home router... that's also a cable box... that has some type of .NET services to recieve data and voice. Goodbye baby bells and local cable... hello MS providing everything through a convergence device.
An embedded systems start-up (now dead... once "the money burn" caught up to us) I was part of partnered with a networking company that claimed to have solved "the last mile" problem. They even had AT&T lined up as an initial customer. They didn't however, want to engineer anything in the home, thus sub contracted that out to us. We had a line of PowerPC single board PC104 form factor computers we were going to build this device from. This is when I first learned about convergence devices and the mad mad mad chase in the industry to be the first group getting inside the consumers home.
Never had any of these products taken off... and there have been many. However, with that said (this is now relating to an earlier
Am I being realistic... prolly not. But basically that's why every company from Motorola to a bunch of small start-ups are trying to get into the home, so they can be a one stop shop for all your communication needs.
Check out my podcast: DreamStation.cc Video Game Show
Who needs some puny set top box when the new iMacs are floating around out there...
Luck favors the prepared, darling.
Please let them support HDTV. Time Warner in my area has several HDTV channels and I also use a TiVo. This gets complicated since TiVo doesn't understand HDTV so I have to switch back and forth and don't get full use out of it anymore.
When geeks think something is cool, they foolishly assume everyone else will agree. Building a personal media library is a geek-born idea. Average people just want low-cost media on demand.
Science fiction always depicts instant media on demand for little or no cost; personal media libraries only exist for unique or personal content. There's no need for personal copies of centrally available media.
Smart entrepeneurs realize this fact and are working toward two things: ways to stream media over the wire, and heavy-duty centralized servers. Personal digital video recorders or in-home servers are a temporary and weak solution that really only appeals to an expert minority of consumers.
These devices will quickly become irrelevant once a reasonable media on demand solution is implemented. Building a new business around a dead-end concept is hardly a plan for success.
- "It's just a matter of opinion!" - PRIMUS
As someone who's been shopping HDTV's, satellite receivers, and Tivo type things, this sounds very interesting, but there is no mention of HDTV signals. It seems foolish to me to build something like this without handling HD signals. There are currently combo DirecTV/HD boxes, and DirecTV/Tivo's, but no DirecTV/HD/Tivo. This thing could have tried to fill that gap, among others, but it looks like they didn't. Guess it's mostly vapor and PR at this point anyway, so there's no point in getting depressed. :-(
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
I got a kick out of the following quote from the NY Times:
January 7, 2002 The Battle of the Boxes: PC vs. TV By JOHN MARKOFF
SAN FRANCISCO, Jan. 6 -- The rivalry between the PC and TV over which is destined to become the hearth of the home will take on new urgency on Monday when three prominent technology executives sketch out competing visions of their digital product lines.
blah blah blah... here comes the good part:
Mr. Perlman said that after Microsoft acquired WebTV for $425 million in April 1997 he had stayed and tried to refine the product until it became clear that Microsoft's principal interest was in ensuring that its Windows CE operating system was in the box rather than improving the consumer experience.
Karma: Professionally Doomed (mostly affected by inability to keep opinions to self)
80 gigs isn't enough space.
I don't see any benefit to this. For me, watching movie is more than just sitting in front of the TV and pressing a few buttons on the remote. It involves getting out of the house, driving through my neighborhood checking out the neighbors christmas lights. Visiting the local rental store, looking over all of the pretty videotape boxes, perusing the covers, reading the blurbs on the back. Checking out the other patrons. Picking up some Ice Cream, heading back home. Placing the tape in the VCR, pressing play. Watching all of the previews to other movies. Then finally the 'Big Event.'
Pressing a button and having $10 removed from my checking account seems blah.
What you need is apache running gallery. All you do is upload your photos
From film? A good scanner is very expensive, and digital cameras don't convert all the legacy negatives that consumers have shot over the last 30 years, let alone the undeveloped film they continue to shoot, especially from disposable cameras.
Will I retire or break 10K?
According to press release, they have partnered with Real Networks as well. I assume all this means is that they will install a real player by default on the Moxi device as well. No great surprise since the only other popluar choice, Microsoft Windows Media players aren't ported to anything except a Microsoft OSes.
"due to licensing restrictions, remote DVD playback is not available in homes using wireless networking"
So, you don't use their wireless hardware and put in a separate Access Point. Will these idiots never learn?
"We couldn't do the things we are doing with Windows XP," Perlman said, referring to the most recent version of Microsoft's flagship operating system. "The best broadband (home) networks out there will be the ones that don't use Microsoft technology."
I just wish that I had a name like Mr. Perlman. Even Larry Wall would be envious!
.
load "linux",8,1
I really wish I could be playing Twister with Helen Hunt right now!
It is inevitable that the Big Media companies will sue them. They might as well sue themselves to get it over with.
Software sucks. Open Source sucks less.
...who glanced at the article title, saw the words "Digital" and "Convergence", and thought of the people who brought us the CueCat?
God damn you! You broke my fucking mouse wheel with all your useless posts! I refuse to read the comments with +1 or higher. I come here only to read the good -1 posts. So please, contribute in a more intelligent way.
May I suggest posts of homosexual content?
Thank you.
A useless, bored guy with nothing better to do.
BTW, fuck computer science.
Am I missing something here? Companies are having trouble staying afloat manufacturing these devices (replay anyone?), and along comes moxi saying they will make money by liscencing this tech to other companies to manufacture? I quote:
The company says it will offer the technology to cable operators at $425 US for a single-TV household, adding $250 to equip a second TV.
So how is adding a 425 dollar liscence going to make these boxes sell? sounds like it'll just jack up the price to me.
They can name them ...
'MoxiPad's!
spray them with A-moxi-cillin!
http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/amox.htm
Moxio uses Linux and they claim it was key to their ability to record and play multiple video and audio streams simultaneously. Pearlman said that they had improved boot speed and reliability. TiVo posted their changes to Linux kernel and toolset. Will Moxio do the same and give back to the community ?
"linux operating system and flash"
isn't flash buggy on linux?
Remember, there were no nuclear weapons before women were allowed to vote.
Having recently been brought from the darkness of digital Comcast cable to the true light of the superior quality and better techonolgy of SAT receivers, I am looking forward to this unit hitting the market. I orginally thought my timing was wrong, last week switched from Dish to Direct TV with TiVO but it may work out just fine, another year from now this Moxie may be ready for prime time, and Dish will give it frree for a one year contract getting everything I had with digital cable for less ( with Dolby digital and a better quality picture). It's amazing; I used to walk around the electronic stores asking myself why people would spend money on high definition TV when using DVDs with progressive scan is the only realistic way to enjoy them - then I got the Dish saw what was available and even SaMS Club had the 6000 on display- with HDTV. I am not ready finacially for HDTV yet, but do want the the Dolby Digital stations and personal video recorder.
Right now the TiVO is considered the best, but that may change with the introduction of the Moxie. Of course we can't rule out Sony and the PS2 - it has everything there and Sony has the license, the linux and the TiVO software, it would not be too great a feat for Sony to add everything to the PS2 via a hard drive and new input device for Dolby Digital signals.
Forget cable TV, they are more worried about providing cable modems then keeping up with home entertainment. This is working well for them now,with their monoply power of the cable, but as wireless setups such as that being introduced by Earthlink in Atlanta come on the scene, the need for cable modems will drop, and those wanting newer, better home entertainment will leave the cable monoplies for higher quality.
favorite quote from New York Times article:
" Mr. Perlman said that after Microsoft acquired WebTV for $425 million in April 1997 he had stayed and tried to refine the product until it became clear that Microsoft's principal interest was in ensuring that its Windows CE operating system was in the box rather than improving the consumer experience."
That sums it up very well, few people these days are trying to improve the consumer experience, most are just working to protect their monopolies.That goes for the cable compainies as well as Microsoft.
Of course those individuals that never experienced any of this will have no idea what I am talking about, much like the old ibmpc user that is not aware of the new techonology in computers , many here have never gone beyond basic tv and have no idea what they are missing.You can spot them right away, so far behind they talk with complete follish babble, they think they know more becasue they are up on PC technology - but it is a different ball game in home entertainment...
>>>please remove "nospam" from email address
Moxi? In Maltese that's one letter away from meaning "f***ed up" :-)