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New iMac Announced
Steve Jobs is terrific at just that, Creating Desire. This is no surprise to us, for sure, but nothing drives it home as much as sitting in the audience and watching him speak. I could tell you how wonderful an orator he is, and how groovy his products are, but I really want to hear what the Slashdot user communtiy has to say about that. I want to talk about what Apple is doing technically.
First: The new iMac is very attractive. It's cool, it's neat. It will be a very popular machine. It's got a good price/feature spectrum and it looks like a pretty decent machine for the consumer. It isn't, in the end, a machine for the linux die-hard, but that's okay. It's slick, it ships with a bunch of very decent apps to manage your digital media. I want one, it's a cool machine. I don't know what I'd do with it (which is the problem), but it's cool looking. It's not particularly a good deal, I mean, you can pick up 200$ 15" tft displays at Fry's and lets get real, the G4 (Excepting the velocity engine stuff) isn't that fast of a chip at any available speed compared to the x86 world. But boy, this is one slick machine. But we know that already from the previous story. I do worry about it overheating, as I did flash back to the cube's cracking problems a bit.
Second: Photoshop for OS X will be coming out "soon". That was the big news. They had a very impressive working demo, I hope to learn more tomorrow on the expo floor.
Third: iPhoto is a decent cataloging program, and one designed to be used easily and generate more revenue streams for apple in the form of booklets and print costs. But it looks very polished and useful.
Superdrive: You'll see the superdrive in the new imac finally, which is nice. Note that this is not the superdrive that everyone remembers from the 80s' :-)
That's about all. The keynote was terrific, but in the end, not so outstanding. I'll post pictures soon. I'm sure a lot of /. regulars will be doing the same. More Tomorrow!
I remember a few years ago when they announced the IMAC, I listened the keynote on streaming audio. I was amazed.. Today I watched the keynote on QuickTime. The new IMAC is very cool. It comes with a 15-inch flat screen display suspended on the base of the computer. This screen can swivel 180 degrees, raise up and down, and tilt forward and backwards. The base itself is only just over 10 inches in diameter! They come with a CD-RW up to Apple's super drive (CD-RW, DVD-R). Starting at $1299.
Apple also announced a really sweet image editing program that automatically imports, edits and prints images from a digital camera. IPhoto can also publish to a website (provided on apple's servers), order Kodak prints online, and even publish a hard bound book of photos. All in one application. This application and the new iMac completes apples "digital hub"
There is no
that's all i needs to say.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
Here's hoping that with all the R&D and user testing involved, this one will finally come with a decent mouse...
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There where times when the Keynote really blue me away. After it was over I did feel a little cheated though. iPhoto looks like a great application. I downloaded it allready, but didn't have a chance to try it out yet. You can get it here. Download size is 13.4 MB.
The new iMac looks amazing and has great specs. It is "Flat out cool". A bigger screen iBook is another great addition to the apple product line. What worries me, is that there have been no changes to the professional line. The PowerBooks got a Combo drive just a couple of weeks ago so that is okay. But having PowerMacs and iMacs with the same processor and more or less identical clock speeds seems like a strange move to me.
This is beyond the rumour sites. All of them that I looked at swore that the gigahertz barrier was to be broken. At this Keynote it wasn't. And I don't think that Apple would just put faster PowerMacs in stores without having at least one Photoshop shootout on stage first.
It was an okay keynote I suppose. But after all that hype some people seem to have expected iTransporter, iEndofworldhunger with iWorldpeace thrown in. And all that running 3 ghz.
sebi
Hank! White!
I like the direction that Apple is taking here. Lots of people have things like digital cameras, mp3 players, CD burners, but the software erquired to get them all working together can be a major pain for Joe ComputerUser.
One machine with sufficient power (700MHz G3 is pretty quick) that makes all that truly easy would be a great thing for most homes. But... the secret lies in the software, not the hardware. I'd like to see something like this for PCs.
Moderation: Put your hand inside the puppet head!
http://sakots.pekori.jp/imgboard/imgs/img200201071 62803.jpg
"DVD burner on one of 3 models"
Wow! I hope I'm lucky and my maschine comes with a DVD bruner! I mean, the chance is 33%, so it's not that unlikely... If I don't get lucky the first time around, I'll just have to try again... really want a DVD burner!
Bjarke Roune
I wonder if Apple will start selling wall mounting kits. Then you would take up zero desk space.
... but I was expecting a little bit more. Something truely groundbreaking.
The iMac update is pretty cool (if not a little funky looking). iPhoto gets downloaded when I get home (and it gives me an excuse to go buy a camera... anyone have any advice on a good digital camera in the $300-$400 range?). The new iBook seems to be just a bigger version (no G4). Nice, but again nothing truely groundbreaking.
At least the Quicktime streaming was fairly smooth. I expected them to get hammered. It seemed to have held up pretty well.
iI ijust idon't iknow iif iI ican itake iit imuch ilonger!
Can your IM do this?
I keep expecting it to start hopping around like the Pixer desk lamp! ;)
Note that on apple's purchasing site (store.apple.com) the lower end new iMacs aren't available until March. The only one available in January is the top of the line $1800 one with the Superdrive (DVD writer & CD-RW). The other new item which I saw (didn't see the Keynote, so don't know how much attention was paid to it) is the 14.1" screen on the new top end iBook.
Apple also announced other new products like a 14' display on some iBooks
Wow! a 14' display, and my laptop only has a 14" display. Just imagine playing your favorite video game on a 14 ft display.
While many business application users will not enjoy having a 14 ft screen, I think this will be great for gamers.
I wonder what the max resolution on that will be... 1,280,000 x 1,024,000 pixels?
I Heart Sorting Networks
How are they cooling this new one? It's got a G4, a SuperDrive, a GeForce2 MX, and the power supply, all inside that base, and there's no airflow from the bottom to the top? (There's a cover over the bottom, where the ram chips and Airport card go.) I can't believe this thing isn't going to get toasty-hot. The Cube didn't have a fan, but it had an external power supply, so they were kinda cheating.
I'll be watching the whole deal just to see how they pull that off. If they can cool that thing without a fan, I'll be impressed.
What's your damage, Heather?
The comments about the lack change to the PowerMac desktop line are spot on...Apple has a real problem here.
The iMac now has a G4 at comparable speeds, a Superdrive, more expandable RAM capability, and OH YEAH it comes with a 15" LCD display. The PowerMac has the same thing, for $600 more, and without the display (so throw in another $500 if you want to be able to actually see the output of your computer). It is more than just disappointing...it is totally illogical.
I will grant that the PowerMac is more expandable in terms of PCI slots, but...I can no longer think of a single good reason anyone would want to buy a PowerMac, which means unless Apple updates them before the iMacs ship in January, their high-end desktop sales are pretty much going down the crapper.
sean
The only problems that I could see with a feature such as this is that you might be able to change the center of gravity of the machine enough to tip it over and it might be difficult to design a mechanism that would be both lightweight and durable.
Lasers Controlled Games!
it didn't turn out like this
On my birthday, a representitive of TimeCanada
stoped me as I was about to enter my apartment.
"Don't be alarmed" he said, "Your friends are in
there, awaiting to surprise you."
Are they gonna update OSX so the display could be easily rotated 90 deg. for long web pages and the like? That'd be cool.
I don't ever expect an Apple and non-Apple machine to cost the same, but the more Apple can cut down that difference, the better off they are.
"Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
"I can see my house from here!" - ST:
Until Apple makes a 1.5Ghz G5, they won't get me as part of thier market share.
You're going to be waiting a while, since Apple doesn't make CPUs of any speed -- that's Motorola and IBM's job.
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
Yeah, weren't we supposed to see a G5 Power Mac at this show?
Lasers Controlled Games!
Is striking...I honestly didn't know what to think of this creation from Apple's labs when I saw the little pictures online, but having seen the thing in action during the keynote, I have to say that yes, I do want one. Too bad I'll have to pay off my TiBook first :P
Some nice little jabs at Adobe and Time magazine sprinkled in, too...fun. Photoshop X does look nice, though, and I'm dling iPhoto as I write this. It looks sweet enough to make me want to get a camera.
Oh, and all those wondering about the Pro Line...I doubt anyone'd bet against new Powermacs at MW Tokyo this March, and unlike what was predicted for this show, I imagine that those really will have the G5.
I think that it's a lot of old hats under one nifty interface. You can import your photos, edit them , print them on your inkjet, put them on the web, have prints delivered from kodak and have a hardcover bound Album with nice layot delivered to wherever you want it.
Most of these things where possible before, but not this nice. And the program is free. Prints and the Album will cost (29.99 for the first 10 pages, 3 dollars for each page afterwards IIRC)
Hank! White!
Here are the official specs on the new iMacs from Apple's page:
The two bottom models have a 700 MHz G4, with the top one having an 800 MHz chip. All feature 256K processor speed L2 cache, but all have a 100 MHz bus, slightly slower than the towers. Bottom model has 128 MB RAM, all others 256; lower two models have 40 GB drives, top model has 60; bottom model has CD-RW, top two have DVD-R/CD-RWs, and finally the top two come with a set of Apple Pro Speakers.
All models have: GeForce 2MX/32MB DDR, 2 FireWire ports, 3 USB 1.1 ports on the machine and two on the keyboard, Mini-VGA output port, 56K modem, 10/100 ethernet, and a typical software bundle with all the iApps, Quicken 2002, Otto Matic, World Book Encyclopedia, AppleWorks, and a bunch of free browsers and readers preinstalled.
The screen is a 15" viewable TFT at 1024x768 at millions of colors.
Apple will continue to sell CRT iMacs starting at $799; the new models cost $1299, $1499, and $1799, respectively.
The new iBooks received more of a speed bump than a revolutionary upgrade like the iMac, but are still a great deal in consumer portables. They now stand like this:
500 MHz G3 in the bottom model, 600MHz in the others; bottom two have 128MB RAM, top has 256; 66MHz bus in the bottom, 100 in the top two; CD- ROM in the bottom, DVD-R/CD-RW in the top two; 15 GB disk in the bottom, 20 in the top two; and of course a 12.1" display in the bottom two and a 14" in the top one.
All the iBooks have 1 FireWire port and 2 USB 1.1 ports, a VGA out and a composite video out (w/ adapter), 56K modem, 10/100 ethernet, the small white power adapter, and the same bundle as the iMac.
The dimensions are 11.2x9.06x1.35" and 4.9 lbs. on the 12.1" models, and 12.7x10.2x1.35 and 5.99 lbs. on the 14" model, and the 12.1" models have a 42 watt-hour battery for an advertised 5 hours of power, with the 14" model having a 55 watt-hour battery with an advertised 6 hours of power.
Apple has done it again, offering the flat screen iMac starting at $1299 with a G4, even as many were doubting they could offer any flat screen desktop below $1499!
"Reality is just a convenient measure of complexity" -Alvy Ray Smith
IIRC, you're referring to the Superdisk drive. Apple has named a product "Superdrive" before though, the 3.5" floppy drives that could read MS-DOS disks (late 80s).
...to the Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field? I guess I have to see one in person, but the new iMac looks plain stupid. I so wish I didn't feel that way. I saw the keynote at the Apple Store, and although we all clapped, many expressed disappointment. Under the hood, the improvements are stellar, but on the surface? I was hoping for wireless keyboard and mouse. Can video be sent wirelessly? How about an iMac that "senses" one or more wireless flat panels? H2H gaming! I really hope it does well, but I won't buy one.
I'm sorry, but your opinion seems to be wrong.
As much as people will probably bash it here, it's groundbreaking in a lot of ways.
The industrial design proves that you don't have to put a computer in a box. As consumers get used to having their electronics packaged their way, this type of talent will become more and more important.
Witness the 'shabby chic' home decoration that's become the rage among new boomers. They want things familiar and comfortable, not boxy.
the 14" model is 1024x768. They seem to expect people to buy a computer just so it will take up more room in their briefcase/backback.
I was hoping the 14" would be at least 1280x1024 or something: it's really not out of the question.
... was the announcement that Mac OS X is now the default boot OS on every new Mac Apple ships.
At last the long awaited dream is realized: UNIX for the masses. The last, best hope of stemming the Redmond tide. Laugh at my hyperbole but Moms everywhere are a lot more likely to be UNIX users now than ever before. Thats really something.
Sure it is. Possible, but enjoyable? I would rather have this than XP on some clunky PC box.
You should hear my co-workers who were convinced the new G5 was going to be announced. Now they're offended that Apple is upgrading the iMac, of all things, to a G4, while the power users' tools remain the same.
I'd rather have someone respond than be modded up.
So for the low end, Apple now offers...well, nothing, really; Steve said that the lineup will be all flat-panels, which means the classic iMac is going away. The iBook is their cheapest "current" computer, but not everyone wants a notebook. Next is the basic new iMac at $1300 -- not available until the end of this quarter at the earliest.
It makes me wonder what will happen to all the old (2001) iMacs still for sale (and perhaps more to the point, when the classic iMac will lose its spot on store.apple.com). Old iMacs should be cheaper because they're obsolete now that their replacement has been announced, but realistically the replacement isn't replacing them if it costs 50% more, so it seems to me that there still ought to be decent demand and the price might stay put.
Whatever happens to the old ones, though, the fact that the cheapest new iMac is well over $1k and is, in fact, more expensive than their notebook is a Bad Thing. Not that I'm personally in the market for the low-ender, nor do I think Apple should complete strictly on price, but I do think if they're going to take an option out of their price/performance lineup they should be ready to legitimately replace it.
101010, 222, 52,
Notably absent was an Apple PDA, where Apple could have demonstrated fundamentally new technology (OSX, in contrast, has been is a great engineering effort, but is an evolutionary development from NeXTStep and MacOS).
The markets apparently weren't "blown away" either, as Apple stock is down for the day as of 3pm EST. I think Apple overhyped this one.
Apple is, and remains, a high-end, high-quality vendor for a niche market with a particular taste. In comparison, no matter how nice a car an RX-7 may be, not everybody will want to drive one. Apple will not take over the world, at least not with its current product range. Most sorely missing from their product range is a smaller, cheap desktop (a sub-$1000 cube, maybe) and an ultralight laptop.
imac G4 is fsb crippled just like the celeron is a fsb crippled PIII. 700mhz speed grade is only available as 7x100 no multiplier of 133 will achieve 700mhz... fsb specs on the apple website are studiously avoided. Since no new towers were announced, this crippled G4 is their way of insuring propper product placement. Really too bad.
If voting were effective, it would be illegal by now.
OK - I love the new iMac. It's great-looking, finally a G4 is included, the screen looks real nice, and the drive combinations are right on. This is probably the Mac that the Cube should have been. The price is about $100 higher than I'd like, but I expect to see the price points all adjusted once the new Pro machines _finally_ ship. Even though they still have old iMacs around for now, they need to get the new one to the sub $1000 point ASAP.
iPhoto is a compelling new application, and I'm going to download it and play with it tonight - it supports my Olympus 3000 so I'll try it directly instead of just using the reader like I normally do.
The new reconfiguration of the iBook line is nice, too - and the 14.1" screen on the high-end model will be a plus.
But - what about the Pro line? Apple's margins are fattest on the tower Macs, and they're not announcing anything today. Unless they do something soon, expect a bad quarter. I don't know about Motorola's yields, but Apple must be pretty pissed at them since they obviously can't get enough G5 (or fast G4 - whatever) processors to announce anything yet.
So, they'll sell a ton of iMacs, but I was hoping for a little more this time around.
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
Slow CPU speeds? If the *only* thing you're comparing is Mhz, then of course Pentium wins hands down. But the effective speed of a processor is derived from much more than the clock speed. A 1.5Ghz G5 would make a 1.5Ghz PIV seem like a turtle on exlax.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
I for one hate the look, but I suppose it has its niche markets...
I'd rather they have stuck with the original iMac design and done the following:
Flat panel monitor still leaving all that space that the CRT had taken up to allow the following.
A "hatch" on the back you could open to access the computer internals to upgrade the machine.
Replacable G4 processor
Replacable GeForce card in AGP 4x slot
1-2 PCI slots
More ram slots (2-4)
Maybe another hard disk bay or two...
Seriously, with the CRT gone there would be room for all this with maybe a bit of tweeking of the case design to accomidate the PCI slots.
This would have kept the tried and true iMac design but added the expandability everyone says that the iMac lacks but keeping it still a bit less than what you can expand a tower to so as not to cannibalize the sales of those. Seriously, that would have been quite cool in and of itself!
--Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop. - Dr. Walter Gibbs
Is the fact that it, based on the pictures, it doesn't seem to require any form of input! No more clunky keyboards or mice.
:)
I'm guessing all that futuristic talk from Jobs was about the new telepathic interface.
Brian Ellenberger
I've had 2 optical Microsoft Intellimouses, and I loved them, except for two things
-- Both broke the same way within a year. They started tracking worse and worse until they got unusable.
-- They're butt ugly
I'm now back to using the regular Apple mouse. I'd love if Apple sold a 2 button mouse with wheel and Apple design and quality.
From my understanding, Jobs is betting that consumers want a computer which seamlessly interacts with all manner of peripherals, while other computer companies are shying away from the PC as the center of the electronic household (as evidenced by PDAs, convergence boxes, etc.)
But right now, the target market for the new iMac is the subset of Mac owners who own at least one digital camera, DV camcorder, or whatever. Now I'm a pretty rabid Mac advocate but even I'll admit that this is a very small number of people. The way I see it, to make this concept more appealing to the wider (i.e., Windows-using) market, Apple has to ally with one or more makers of popular peripherals.
Right now, this digital hub strategy has the hub but not the accessories. Until far more peripherals have Macintosh drivers available (written either by Apple through reverse- engineering or licensing of IP; or by the makers of the hardware, possibly with some persuasion from Apple), Jobs' concept is going to fail.
Apple makes great hardware; now it's time to get the accessories to go along with it. Only after that, I think, will they be able to succeed.
the coolest club on
http://www.info.apple.com/support/export.html .......... 11,124 MTOPS
. ht m
.......... 6,133 MTOPS
.......... 5,333 MTOPS
Power Mac G4 @867Mhz
http://support.intel.com/support/processors/ctp
Intel® Itanium(TM) @800MHz
Intel Pentium® 4 @2.0GHz
Also, I don't get how you're supposed to upgrade it. It says "Remove the cover on th ebottome to access the upgrade slots." But then I'd be really afraid of hurting the LCD when I turned it over. I never thought they'd go back to the supreme unupgradeability of the PowerPC line. I remember almost losing a couple fingers when I upgraded RAM on a few of them.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, though I'm not yet sure about the universe. - A Einstein
$45 per U Colocation Special
More proof that Slashdot lost it as a news service ;-)
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
But the macally MicroMouse just came out and seems even cooler. I'm thinking of gettin' me one of those....
Is it just me...?
(1) these things won't stack very well on the "bring out yer dead" carts wheeled about during downsizing...
(2) I afraid of the ($0.32 cost) $199.95 monitor arm after a few months and it gets a *little* loose, and *slowly* drifts down...slowly...like a glacier...
-- www.globaltics.net
Political discussion for a new world
Drivers may not be that necessary. I borrowed a digital camera from my folks a couple of weeks ago, a Panasonic PDR M5 or something. Thought, just for the heck of it, I'd plug it into the USB port on my iMac DV without installing any drivers. Up pops the OS X Image Capture utility asking me what I want to do with these pictures from the camera. So cool.
Laugh while you can, monkey boy!
There are no new desktop Macs - for now. OTOH, Seybold is just 6 weeks away :-|
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
The "SuperDrive" is not an Authoring burner, no. Those still cost, last I checked, at least $1,000 more than a General class drive, and probably wouldn't be appropriate for a consumer machine anyway. Their primary market is the professional video production industry.
As far as I can tell, the only thing you're really criticizing the DVD-R drive for is that it doesn't let you use CSS encryption on your own discs. If you're against industry copy protection to begin with, then why on earth do you see that as a problem?
And BTW, yes -- if you use DeCSS-derived software on a Mac, you can make copies of commercial DVDs. The only constraint is that the data contained on the original disc must fit within the capacity of DVD-R media, which is not yet as sophisticated as pressed DVDs. Both Authoring and General DVD-R media can only hold 4.7GB of data, which is half the size of a mass-produced, double-layer DVD disc -- the format that most commercial DVDs seem to be shipping on these days.
Breakfast served all day!
That might be great, but remember that the screen would be 2-3 times as far away from you, so you'd need real good eye sight.
After all, the Mac community is filled with sites tracking the latest Apple rumors. Even at a 'normal' MacWorld, the community-generated hype leads to people expecting Apple to announce something that's totally revolutionary, and whatever actually does get announced pales by comparison.
And this time Apple gave themselves even higher expectations to live up to by creating their own hype too. For the first time anyone can recall, they publicized the expo, with new slogans on their website every night: 'a backstage pass to the future', 'way beyond the rumors sites', 'to boldly go where no PC has gone before', etc. Surely Apple must have realized that new iMac, iPhoto, and larger iBooks, while impressive, couldn't live up to people's expectations with that much hype?
(And claiming that they were going to announce something 'way beyond the rumors sites' was surely a mistake. These are the same rumors sites, after all, that were expecting LCD iMacs many months ago. This expo's predictions included the iWalk PDA, much faster pro-line desktop machines, and even a G5 Dodecahedron or two.)
It seems to be the case that people will always be somewhat disappointed with whatever Apple releases. But Apple doesn't need to make it worse by claiming that they've created something revolutionary and amazing; this new iMac just can't live up to that standard.
Life is far too important to be taken seriously.
The REAL use for this baby would be to mount it upside down from the top of the shelf on my cubicle. Combined with a wireless keyboard and mouse, and my desk will be so incredibly CLEAN!
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
Architosh has some interesting info about the PowerPC roadmap.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
Well, given that the "designs" -- if you want to call them -- of Dell et al are very 10 years ago, I guess that means that Apple is 7 years ahead of the pack!
Throwing that word around.. the word is supercomputer. Every damn Apple ad, every new machine they launch is called a supercomputer. It's got the same old, clunky 800 mhz G4 processor, which they have the nerve to call 'pentium-crushing'? AMD and Intel have processors running at 2+ times that clock speed.. gimme a break.
Am I the only one who's bothered when Apple says with a straight face, "The PowerPC G4 with Velocity Engine can perform complex calculations two to four times faster than processors found in run-of-the-mill PCs"? I'm sure they're still using their old, tired Photoshop benchmarks to back up those statements. Only Apple could get away with calling an 800Mhz G4 a 'pentium crushing' 'supercomputer.'
They even mention Quake on the page.. how about they pit that puny Geforce2 MX against a real PC? Let's see.. lowest iMac has 700mhz CPU, 128MB RAM, 40GB HD, CD-RW, flat panel. You can get an AthlonXP system with all that, and money to burn on a Geforece3 card. Then see which one is the 'supercomputer'.
Not significantly. My 600mHz iBook torches my 600mHz Pentium 3 workstation when crunching numbers (SETI@home), or ripping AC3 from DVDs. A 800mHz G4 processor can probably hold its own with a 1.6gHz Pentium 4 and will beat it on apps that use Altivec.
I have a website. It's about Macs.
Hmm Apple went public around what 1980? That's about 22 years or so and they were first formed in 1977? So I supposed they can last AT LEAST that long. And just to make you look extra retarded, Microsoft bought 150 million bucks worth of common stock which as you may or may not know has no voting power, 150 mil is pretty insignifigant for a company with an 8.2 billion dollar market cap in 2001. About a whole .01% of the cap or so. You, out of the gene pool!
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
Which PC maker has a DVD burner shipping standard? Just curious, not trying to be smartass.
ZOMG I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS ON MACINTOSH VERSUS WINDOWS, VI VERSUS EMACS, AND HOW YOU'RE NOT A DORK
Actually if you wanted to look at just the guts and the way they are put together IBM did this two years ago with the NetVista. However the NV was a crippled i810 chipset based PC, with no way of turning off Vampire Video or the crappy on-board sound. This might actually have decent stuff on the inside of it.
Missed opportunity for a pivoting screen, though. Portrait/Landscape on-the-fly would be schweet.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
I remember a few years ago when they announced the IMAC, I listened the keynote on streaming audio. I was amazed.. Today I watched the keynote on QuickTime.
So how did the first iMac sound?
"And like that
The iMac looks nice, but a 15" 1024x768 screen won't cut it. Home users are okay at that, but professional mac users aren't going to work at that sort of extremely limited screen resolution.
For a while I was thinking this might be my first foray into the world of Macintoshes, but the unusually low resolution for a 15" LCD ends any interest in my mind. They should've used screens like the one on my mother's Dell notebook: 15" and 1440x1024 or something close to that.
Actually, it's got a 15" display.
/*drunk.. fix later*/
Well, for one CSS has long been a useless defense against anything but casual copying (remember DeCSS), I forget how long it takes to decrypt a DVD, but I'm sure it takes longer to extract the actual data from the drive than it takes to decrypt that data.
So loosing that copy protection actually looses nothing now.
Almost every Apple event gets mucho hype by the rumor community now. People speculate like mad, heck, I know 2 guys who actually made bets on what was going to be announced.
Then, after each show, a large number of people are disappointed and a few are wildly happy. A couple of in between the 2. But mostly people are just disappointed in Apple for not living up to their expectations! Granted, this time Apple _did_ beat their own drum way too loudly, but I can't think of any other computer hardware company that gets this kind of press, rumor mongering, and vast discussion after the event.
Just wondering if anyone has a good idea why Apple inspires all this? Is it Steve-o and his RDF? Because Apple is the underdog? Apple's penchant for always pushing the boundry on HW design (like, love, or hate it)? Personally I think it's because Apple keeps innovating, whether it's a success like the original iMac or a failure like the Cube, keeps people wondering "Just what the hell are they gonna pull next?!"
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
new, faster G4s (or call them G5s - same chip, regardless)
I certainly hope not. While it'll be nice to see the Apollo chips running above 1GHz, they're just the same 32 bit G4s with a little speedbump. Calling that a G5 would be evil marketing crap.
The real PPC8500 is a 64 bit monster running on DDR.
Well, I'm thinking more along the line of individual component upgrades and not a prebuilt package, although any non-major pc manufacturer would gladly order a DVD burner and charge accordingly should a customer request it.
But what will the DVD burner really get you right now. CDRs are still good right now for many reasons. I can burn a VCD if I want, plus I can use the same media for my MP3 cdplayer as well as use it as a cheap backup mdia.
The average user doesn't need a DVD burner. It's like giving grandma a T1 connection when she can barely handle e-mail.
Remember though, I said "right now".
Ever stick an 8cm CD in a slot loading drive?
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
Simple Solution:
USB Keyboard/Mouse and one of those adjustable monitor arms to place your laptop. Maybe not the most elegant, but will work in a pinch.
It's Volkswagen, d0rk. One 'g', and an 'e', not an 'o'. Jazz up your desk with a German dictionary, or something. Mumble.
main(O){10<putchar(4^--O?77-(15&5128 >>4*O):10)&&main(2+O);}
Why have so many PT Cruisers and new Beetles been sold? An old boxy Buick outperforms both cars and is so much cheaper. Many people with large disposable incomes prefer form over function. That seems to be Apple's target market.
You can only drink 30 or 40 glasses of beer a day, no matter how rich you are.
-- Colonel Adolphus Busch
Guess that older story, (and the story before that) was a hoax. Oops. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...
I always hear people on /. complaining that the G4's are slow compared to the latest Intel/AMD chips, but I wonder how many of you have actually used both systems in production.
For the past 6 mos. I've been using a 733Mhz G4 (OS9.x) and a dual-1Ghz Dell Dimension (Win2KPro) for AfterEffects work, and during renders the single-chip G4 beats the pants off the Dell. Almost twice as fast. So, like Steve is always trying to remind us, all Mhz are clearly not created = =.
All I can say is congratulations Steve. You have patented the future of desktop computers.
Why (isn't it obvious)?
It is the only design that meets the criteria, other than a round cone shaped base. This is the only way you can have a swivel tilt flatscreen attached to a base, with 180 degrees swivel and full tilt in any position.
I have sat here with my Solidworks program ( I quickly modeled this thing), and can see this was the creation of necessity. Nothing else will work as well, and allow the same amount of interior space.
The base must be round to give the maximum interior space and allow the monitor to fully swivel and go full down or tilt in any position. Furthermore, the hemisphere is superior to the cone in that it provides the maximum interior room for the design, while meeting the viewability criteria. Greater room inside and outside means cooler temperature as well.
And of course you can bet apple will sue the pants off of anyone who infringes on this patent.
This is a very well thought out unit.
Rectangular computers are as "fugly" as a monkey-dancing Steve Ballmer. (Well, ok, not that fugly, but close.)
I respectfully submit that Apple is no longer targeting Grandma. It seems right now, they're targeting expatriate Win32 users who are tired of Dell/Gateway/Compaq. I, for one, am sorely tired of buying a Wintel PC. Servers, sheesh, that's easy, but desktop, it's a frigging dance I don't want to deal with anymore. They're aiming at people like me.
:)
At the same time, yes, I agree that strictly speaking, no one REALLY needs writeable DVD, but I also think that's because no one has really made a killer app for it. It hasn't hit the masses very hard, so people aren't dying to get one. Apple's counting on 2 things: being there when it happens, and being there first.
Look at it like this: if Apple DIDN'T release a DVD burner, at all, and then Dell *did*, that would be bad. For Apple anyway.
Apple is the R&D Dept. and test market for the entire PC industry.... if DVD writers turn the Mac faithful into amateur Spielbergs, then Dell will ship them cheap and in quantity. If no one ever really finds a strong use for it, then they'll just kinda be one of those things that the Mac die-hards use as "we're better than you" fodder.
ZOMG I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS ON MACINTOSH VERSUS WINDOWS, VI VERSUS EMACS, AND HOW YOU'RE NOT A DORK
According to Steve Jobs the top 3 things we asked for were put into this new design. 1. Flat Panel screen 2. G4 processor 3. Superdrive (DVD burner on one of 3 models)
they forgot #4, and i think the loudest of the reactions to the old design: a 17'' screen.
they can very easily upgrade the new line with a 17'' option - and i think it will be the first thing they do when they revamp the line in a few months (along with dropping the price). look at it: just lengthen the swing arm a bit and put a larger display at the end of it; hell, it's almost something a user could do on his own...
- Entertaining Bits from the Ancient Kernel Tree
It has five USB ports. How many did you want it to have? (three in the back of the unit, two in the keyboard)
I have a website. It's about Macs.
Not a troll actually.
not a smart ass, but just as smart.
Just a few thoughts...
:)
- If you had the screen adjusted in a low position (because of your seating position, setup or whatever), wouldn't you have to move the screen up every time you want to change disks in the drive?
- How are they cooling this thing? I can see a vent around the top, but if it has a fan surely two vents would be needed, intake and outflow?
- Apple should have made it an option to mount it upside-down, effectively hanging it from the top shelf of a workstation. The screen would need to be rotatable through 180 degrees and the drive would need to be capable of being remounted upside-down too. Maybe it's hackable.
- How long before we see the colors that the existing iMac demographic love so much?
Asikaa
Come in, twenty-seventy-seventy, your time is up.
Rather than their typical life-saver colors, I would love to see this in earth tones. Mustard yellow, two shades of puky green, some shade of brown with a bit of grey. It just reminds me of a "modern" lamp from the 1930s. Maybe they should run with it.
It's Volkswagen [vw.com],
I some backward parts of Idaho, it's simply known as "Zie Kar."
Moneyed corporations, non-working 'poor' and criminal prisoners are turning productive citizens into tax-slaves.
I forget how long it takes to decrypt a DVD
EfDTT by Charles Hannum, whose source code fits under half a kilobyte, can descramble CSS data in real-time using only 10% of a G4 Cube's CPU power. Think of what an implementation that uses more tables can do.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Why is this revolutionary? Aren't things like this mostly old hat with a nifty interface?
Well, you're right except that doing old things in a new way is exactly what most revolutions are.
After all, a computer is just a slide rule with a nifty interface. And a car doesn't do anything that you can't do by walking.
Now that I've had a few hours to digest the new appearance, it seems to me that the new iMac looks like a terminal/workstation out of a futuristic anime. I could imagine seeing it in an episode of Cowboy Bebop.
I'm amazed at how only apple manages to sell weird designs.
* Dell quietly discontinued a similarly designed box.
* Intel has demonstrated many similar designs to this since 1997 at their IDC. (remember the fish-bulb thing, and the ziggurat?)
* Even AMD had the flat-screen-on-a-bun concept box (interchangeable neon colors)
However, only Apple actually sells any of these weird shapes. I wonder why they take the risk of weird designs when Dell, Gateway, Compaq and IBM don't.
I also wonder how many times the new iMac it can handle being hoisted by the "neck".
https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
{insert Gingerbread man voice}
"Not my gumdrop buttons!"
{end voice}
That's it.
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
I think the difference isn't that you _can't_ do everything the new iMac can do with a PC, just that it's not standard in most PC's, and you definitely can't match the footprint. This new iMac is the sort of device you can give your grandma, along with a video camera with firewire output and she can start sending you DVD's of the local Bingo night. Nobody's doing anything in the computer business that's exclusively theirs, but Apple has been doing a very good job as of late in packaging things nicely. If I was in the market for a computer right now, I'd have to look at this new iMac. It'd definitely look nicer in the corner of my dining room (only place I've got for a computer right now) than my current beige box PC.
"Apple Turn Over" (the hack you mentioned) runs under MacOS 9, not MacOS X. I'm not saying that MacOS X couldn't be hacked to do the same thing, it is just harder because there's a bit more to doing under X. For one thing, you have to be in kernel space instead of user space. The way that guy did it was that he moved the framebuffer location offscreen, then performed transformations to the image into video memory. Under X certain things are a bit harder to get to such as the FBBA (Frame Buffer Base Address). Under 9, you can drop into MacsBug and set the FBBA very easily. Any app can do it. Under X, you'll have to write a KEXT to do that and debugging said KEXT is somewhat involved - you need two machines.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
Why would Apple bring the iMacs nearly up to the level of the Power Macs? Perhaps they really are trying to reduce demand for the towers. Remember that every time Apple introduces new pro hardware, there are supply problems and tons of bitching from people who get them weeks or months late. Perhaps if they can draw ome of this audience off to the iMacs, they will be able to introduce the G5 and get fewer negative responses (plus supplies of this chip are supposed to be pretty tight anyway).
Don't forget the new, but unannounced Dual Head iMac. This is the perfect machine for one or two people to use, it even has the option of running with two simultaneous users. Or, you can use it in traditional dual head mode, and it also comes with a lazy susan, so you wont scratch up your desk. order now!
</humor>
As a professional designer, I spell it like that intentionally to add character and individuality to my writing style :)
As a designer, I have this drive to constantly set myself apart from the rest and do things completely differently. For instance - black, square-framed glasses are an essential to giving off that "designer image". It's hard for people to take you seriously as a designer when you're looking at them with naked, square-frameless eyes.
You might be saying: "well if all designers are wearing these square-framed glasses, you aren't too different are you?", which is a valid point, but it's all about what makes YOU feel different and individual. If all designers want to drive the same 'volkswagen', compute on an apple, wear the same glasses, talk the same talk, etc - it doesn't mean they're trying to fit into one particular stereotype - it means they're trying to be individual at the group level - don't you get it - it's artistic that we all look the same, and therefore - it's different. duh.
my sig is so witty and fun - it tickles almost everyone who reads it.
is that it doesn't look like a computer. Love it or hate it, you have to admit that Apple is the one computer company that is doing anything original with case design and form factor. Sony has the most stylish x86 boxes out there, but they still look like... boxes. We've hit the point where we don't HAVE to build computers that look like bricks, but you wouldn't know it by looking at PCs these days.
Kudos to Apple for daring to do something a little different, even if it does make us think of a desk lamp. ;)
This
Yes, and books that aren't written using 10,00-feature word processors aren't worth reading either...
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
Is it just me, or does the bottom of this new iMac look like the top of the Death Star? Although, I have to admit, I've been trying since the Keynote ended to get Apple to take my MasterCard information. Steve's Sphere of Unreality strikes again, and I had just told myself that I'd probably never use a mac again.
.... *snaps fingers* .... Oh yeah! I don't ever expect to upgrade a mac. Those always sit as they come, regardless of what people tell me. An x86 machine *has* to be in an ATX case, because there is always something new and fun to put in them.
Yet, there is something about this new machine that just speaks to me. It's probably the voices in my head, but I am intrigued by this new iMac. I've been saying for a long time now that they need to include a flat panel display into them, and here is the fruit of that labor.
The most interesting thing to me, though, is that they are using the G4 processor in their new "consumer" line. This just helps to enforce the fact that at the next Apple event they are set to introduce what ever is going to be termed as the G5 processor for the Pro line. They did it with the first iMacs. Remember the Blue and Whites?
There have been plenty of people point out the fact that the mac line as a whole doesn't have the Ghz numbers it needs to dominate the field. I have to ask, though, what does anyone really and truly need with a 2 Ghz machine? Let me qualify this question.
My current main workstation is a dual Pentium II 300 Mhz machine with 128 MB of RAM and Windows 2000. I have two SUN SparcStations (a 2 and a 10) one of which (the 2) has a black and white framebuffer. I have five Socket 7 based Pentium machines at varied Mhz's and a Power Macintosh 8500/120. Oh, and my 486 33Mhz Linux router.
I do everything I need to do all these machines. Run services, send and receive email, run some websites, encode digital video, both MPEG1 and MPEG2, encode digital audio, watch streaming applications and DVD's, etc, etc, etc, ad nausium.
Then again, I'm a professional UNIX / Cisco user, not a professional game player. Though Diablo II runs just fine on my main workstation. What *are* you people running?!
Now I sit here ranting away on Slashdot, because I can't get the Apple store to accept my order for a new iMac that I have no actual good use for in my home. Sure, being able to burn DVD's will be fun for a while. Playing with the UNIX'esque kernel of Mac OS X will be a real hoot. Wonder how much Linux software still needs to be ported.
Come on, I don't care who you are, you have to admit that it does look kind of cool. Yes, it is a laptop on a stick, I guess. But so is the Gateway version of the same style of unit. LCD screen with an integrated CPU all in one type of deal.
So why didn't I rush out to buy the Gateway when it came out months ago? Hmmm
Oh well, guess I will go see if the Apple store has decided to play friendly yet, and leave you nice people alone.
"Genius may shine aloof and alone, like a star, but goodness is social, and it takes two men and God to make a Brother."
A Mac OS machine, not for the Linux die-hard. Who knew?
sulli
RTFJ.
The DVD-R drive is good, but limiting in making of actual "DVD" compatable disc. They do not suppport lossless linking or variable bit rate MPEGs. I think a DVD+RW drive would have been the better choice.
Check out DVDplusRW.org for more info.
This is not the sig line you are looking for... -- Old Jedi Sig Line Trick
Well, one of the ports in the back holds the keyboard, and one of the ports in the keyboard holds the mouse. That adds up to 3 usable ports. Hook up the printer, camera and Palm cradle, and I'm done with USB ports. For now, that's OK, but what happens when I add something else? Guess I could plug the camera into the keyboard, since I could then easily swap that cable with whatever device I might need to add next.
-- Two men say they're Jesus. One of them must be wrong. - Dire Straits
It's hardly the Rolls Royce of hardware
No, it's the BMW of hardware.
Mac hardware is the closest mass-market thing I've seen to UNIX workstation hardware.
It really is nice, if you can afford it.
C-X C-S
Matching a digital screen w/ an analog input is a bastardization that best belongs on the Island of Doctor Moreau. Having end-to-end digital costs a couple hundred bucks (generally) but makes all the difference in the world.
----- Refactoring is the reason why man does not mistake himself for a god.
Judging by its looks alone, I'm wagering that someone in Apple's marketing department MUST have suggested calling it the "iStalk"...
From http://n0cgi.distributed.net/speed/
PowerPC G4 @ 800 MHz: 8.2 million RC5 keys/sec
AMD Athlon @ 1600 MHz: 5.7 million RC5 keys/sec
Intel Pentim 4 @ 2000 MHz: 2.9 million RC5 keys/sec
Now let's talk again about how clunky the G4 is.
...you can pick up 200$ 15" tft displays at Fry's and lets get real, the G4 (Excepting the velocity engine stuff) isn't that fast of a chip at any available speed compared to the x86 world.
Ugh. How many times do we have to see comments like this? There are hundreds of reasons why this machine can go toe to toe with a Pentium 4 at 1.5 Ghz or whatever. Most of them have nothing to do with the CLOCK SPEED of the Processor. The G4 runs circles around the P4, unless you're taking the lowest end G4 up against the highest P4. "This Velocity Engine stuff"... look, that's just a marketing term for a new version of the controller or something like that. All it means is that the G4 takes instructions in a little differently before it actually starts chugging away at them, and it improves efficiency by a little bit. Like I said before though, the TOTAL MACHINE SPEED is what matters, and Apple is really good at making fast machines. Of course, if you only use a Mac just to start it up and run a Windows emulator or something equally stupid, you won't see that speed advantage.
~ now you know
Come on.. rc5 as a benchmark? It wasn't written as a benchmark, it measures NOTHING that could actually be considered productive in the real world. Apple has fallen back on a single Photoshop benchmark for YEARS. Back in reality, PC photoshop is now faster than G4 photoshop for MOST tasks, as well as the hands down winner for games, and do I have to mention application support?
If you bought a computer because it was faster at RC5 you have problems.. seriously..
Pixar must be proud.
After looking at pictures of the new iMac in TIME magazine, while I think the machine is an engineering masterpiece, I'd wish that the machine had a rectangular box for the CPU unit instead of that half-sphere shape. The rectangular box would have looked a bit more professional in corporate environments, where I expect a good number of the new iMacs to be used.
As for DVD writer, I was comparing entry-level machines. If you want to add a DVD-writer, the cost differential is roughly the same in the PC and Mac world.
I own DVD Studio Pro and I have access to all of the features that Gilmore says aren't available.
The main difference between the DVD-R for General and DVD-R for Authoring drives is that the DVD-R for Authoring writes an additional lead-in that is required at the duplication plant. With this extra info on the DVD, a DVD-R can be used as the master rather than a DLT.
Note also that Apple did the right thing by using the Pioneer drive as DVD-R and DVD-RW are the only writeable formats endorsed by the DVD Forum. DVD+R and DVD+RW are not sanctioned.
* As is generally the case, my opinions do not reflect those of my employer.
Well, we have it. It's done. Consumer oriented flat-panel computers are here. CRTs will be relegated to pre-press shops and collectors.
If you look at LCD monitors in the light of Apple's success with pushing USB, expect to see imitators abounding in a few months.
To those who pooh-pooh the price, I ask to you show me a comparable machine by any competitor that fulfills the same criteria:
And do all this for $1300. Show me the comparables, please. And, consider the inevitability of production ramp-up. LCDs are cheaper now than a year ago. With Apple's push towards commoditizing the LCD market, imagine what the economies of scale can bring!
Will this significantly alter Apple's market share? Not likely. There are too many people who look at a problem and readily come to the wrong solution, i.e. "Let's go buy a computer based solely on the price, rather than what we want to accomplish with it". This is not Apple's market, just as they are not GNU/Linux's market. Apple is selling to a group of people who want the computer to be a part of their lifestyle, not as a keeping-up-with-the-Joneses consumerism.
Bravo, Apple. I look forward to the future devices you have in store.
Potato chips are a by-yourself food.
An article by Michael J. DeMaria over at networkcomputing.com.
just so it will take up more room in their briefcase/backback
That's not the only reason... some people will actually want their monitor to have that pixel depth, but cause less eyestrain trying to squint at the smaller display.
I hate to admit it, but as I get older, I'll probably want the same sort of things myself.
If you do want that gorgeous 22-inch Apple flat-panel monitor, now _that_ will set you back actual cash, and even 17-19" flat panels are in the $500 range.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Whoops. Note to self: your position at NASA will be secured if you keep making decimal point errors.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
That's the real secret of this device, is that it was designed with mounting brackets to attach on top of the Ginger aka Segway scooter. Just think about what you want to compute, and it'll go do that, as well as displaying the output of your digital video camera so you can see where you're going on the screen.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Apple has been known to fudge on this in the past. The Cube had an external power supply, a brick at the end of the power cord. I'll bet this thing does too.
I play Nerd-Folk!
does the product's pic at apple.com remind anyone else of the south park episode, 'cartman gets an anal probe?' in particular, the scene in which a satellite portrudes from cartman's ass.
"cartman, there's a 15-inch active matrix lcd screen sticking out of your ass!"
"sure, you guys, whatever."
That is "Aqua," it is a hell of a way different than CDE.
I like how the Aqua bar "inflates" the icons on the bar whenever you put your mouse over it.
Gorimek,
If you think Microsoft's Intellimouse has problems, try using Logitech's excellent mouse pointers.
I'm using a Logitech Wheel Mouse Optical and it does work under MacOS X by connecting the mouse to one of the USB ports on the newer Macs. The nice thing about the Wheel Mouse Optical is that the mouse is smaller than the Intellimouse with a very nice shape that fits both left and right hands comfortably.
If they had designed the CPU box with a rectangular box but with the right proportions, it would have looked very professional and I'd approve immediately. The new iMac design with its half-sphere CPU box design just looks too avant-garde for business environments, IMHO.
Ok, I've seen this over and over and over. In response to, "Why don't they throw in 2 Ghz G5's and a 22" LCD in the iMac, along with 4000 expansion ports?", the answer is, "because they aren't for geeks they are for consumers who know nothing".
I disagree. I am a programmer, professionally now, but have been doing it since the age of 8 on an Atari 800 as a hobby (don't worry I've changed machines a few times since then!). At one point I remember hand-assembling machine code and entering it into ATARI BASIC (using a construct something like "USR("[buncha obscure control characters]"). I fit nicely into the geek category I imagine.
And I love my main machine, an iMac 500 CD. It does everything I want it to do, except perhaps play DVD's. Of course, that's what my DVD player is for.
Running on BSD, and PowerPC, and everything just kind of works. What more could I ask for?
In fact the truth seems to be that programmers don't always need to run on the hottest, latest hardware. In fact, I could see a consumer wanting or needing that more than a programmer. If you spend all your time with your computer on games, and applications like DV authoring, you need beefy, expensive hardware. If you spend it instead on programming, I know from experience that an Atari 800 can be made to work. In any case I am very impressed with all the software that Apple includes in with the box (or, in the case of the new machines, "bump", plural, "bumpen"), especially the full-featured programming IDE, the best I've ever seen, which can be downloaded and used by anyone (with a Mac) for free. And this of course is why I don't complain about price either. Sure, I could have gotten a machine with better specs (arguably) on the Intel side. But I get a workable office suite, the equivalent of the pay version of Real Jukebox in iTunes (that goes for about $50 and crashes if you sneeze at it), better digital camera software than any camera comes with normally, and so on and so on... Total package? Even without the "Apple aura", the Apple comes out clearly ahead (as of Mac OS X 10.1) for me. Now I know I can fix just about anything that goes wrong with this thing. What about those times I just don't wanna? I just call Apple. Their support is awesome. They have a nice knowledge base on their support site as well. Anycase, enough ranting. I just don't buy the ubergeek=I bought a big machine, therefore I'm 'leet vs. consumer=bought a small or moderate machine because I don't know what I'm doing. Shouldn't it be, if anything, the other way around?
Erik
At the same time, yes, I agree that strictly speaking, no one REALLY needs writeable DVD, but I also think that's because no one has really made a killer app for it.
I disagree: the DVD makes a dandy backup device.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Can OS X work? Is smbclient an option? Does it have any apple OS native support for SMB shares? Does OS 9.2 (besides Dave)? Could I print to my wife's USB HP inkjet through a windows share?
Does it have an X-server? Do open source programs compile readily on it?
I have alterior motives too. I'd like to judge how well it might work inside our 99.5% windows shop at work. If it works well, maybe we'll lift our ban on Macs, support wise.... (I'm in charge of tech support. We currently have 1,400 PCs and they are a real PITA...)
This thing actually looks UGLIER than a bookpc or any other NLX/Flex-ATX system. The bottom line is that you can still achieve the same result (or a better one) with cheaper PC hardware.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Does the basic iTit?
A new CD/DVD drive is a fairly simple swap out.
Your favorite PC vendor will likely even do it for you should you feel not up to the task.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Actually, Unix "workstation" hardware is nothing that you want to be making comparisons to these days.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
yah ask any power user if they're using the onboard video of nForce.. you'll get a resounding 'no'. It's underpowered.
My point was, none of them are released yet for Mac while they are all available for PC, Max and Civ for months now.
After reading through a bunch of comments, some people are really trashing the new iMac and Apple. I can understand trashing the iMac due to its new form. But a lot of comments border on outright hatred of the hardware, the OS, and Apple itself. No, the iMac is not positioned as top teir hardware, the OS issue I'll leave alone, and yes Apple does market its stuff differently.
With the above said, can some of you (likers, moderates, and dislikers) elaborate on why Apple gets this severe negative reaction from some?
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
Yes, but I want it for on the plane when the person in front of me reclines and nearly shuts the screen onto my fingers.
Lasers Controlled Games!
What???
The cheapest DVD burners I've seen are ~$500. That Superdrive != Combodrive.
-clee
Apple's lowend computers are nice enough, if a little pricey. If you want some slots, however, so you can add future neat stuff, Apple calls you a "pro".
The cheapest Apple "pro" computer is the PowerMac G4. I can buy a PC clone that meets those standards for 1/2 the cost of the Mac, and that basically sums up my opinion of Apple.
Things did not used to be like this - I bought a PowerMac 7200 for roughly $999. I had 3 PCI slots, which I used to add a second monitor and later, USB and an IDE card. Into it's drive bays I added both SCSI and IDE disks. I never ran into a problem I couldn't solve by adding or changing a component. That computer is still in use in a local elementary school, thanks to it's ability to adapt and change.
Now compare that to a computer like the iMac. It will never support dual display with spanning. You're tied to a 15" display for the life of the computer. You'll never add a future tech. like USB 2.0 or faster wireless, since there is no place to put expansion cards. It's intentionally built NOT to be upgradeable.
Sadly, it doesn't need to be this way! There's no reason that an easy to understand computer could not also have expansion options for power users. But Apple would prefer that you buy their $2000 computer for that... sadly, most people will look at the HP for $1000 and realize that is has BETTER expansion.
The days of Apple producing affordable, expandable computers are gone... and so am I.
actually original Macintosh monitors, via a proprietary connector, would report their resolution to the video card at boot time to ensure a 72dpi display for all screen sizes. It wasn't until recently that resolution-switching became part of the UI.
They do this on the iBook, and now I see it's on the new iMac too. A regular, "PC-standard" VGA would fit fine in the same space!
Now you've got a dongle to remember to take with you and possibly lose. Is there ANY benefit to this approach? WHY WHY WHY?
The titanium doesn't have a 1280x1024 screen. They're not going to make an iBook with a screen with more real estate than the titanium. It would create a bad perception of their premier business portable.
..because they don't port their programs to x86 but instead use an emulayer. So what you're testing is not the raw speed of a dual 1ghz system but the speed of the emulayer. Which is pretty bad.
:)
Do you really think a dual 1ghz p3 system is 50% slower than a 733mhz G4? LOL
Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
Really, the scroll-wheel is the first thing to disable on any new computer.
You have got to be kidding.
One reason why I use a scroll wheel is the very fact that you can scroll up and down a page very easily without the extra mouse pointer movements needed to move the scroll bar on the right side of the screen. It's a major timesaver, to say the least.
Anyway, if you get a good mouse pointer with scroll wheel that comfortably fits into your hand (I have a Logitech Wheel Mouse Optical and it comfortably fits my right hand like a glove), RSI problems should not be an issue.
Be gone non-geek. Some people realize that they don't need to backup their OS or applications, because it's easier to just re-install if something catastrophic enough happened. You only need your data, and unless you're doing important physics/bio research on your computer you probably don't have too much data that needs to be saved.
>>because they don't port their programs to x86 but instead use an emulayer
;-)
Where do you get your facts?
Adobe has worked *considerably* with Intel to speed up the x86 processing for things like image filters.
In fact, the PowerPC code for image filters is compiled from a C++ codebase. The Intel code for image filters is compiled from HAND-TUNED X86 ASSEMBLY. Considerably more effort has gone into the Intel side of things, not just from Adobe but also Intel and Microsoft.
You have your "unfair advantage" assertion backwards
And yes, I think it's possible for a G4 to be faster than a x86 at the same MHz. You ever ride in a Buick Grand National?? The thing barely gets over "5000 rpm", but with enough traction it easily would toast Mustangs of the day...
Or, I have an EASIER analogy for the PC Bigots...
Which is faster:
a 1.7 GHz Intel Pentium 4
.........or
a 1.6 GHz AMD XP processor?
If you say "Intel" is faster because of the MHz, you are either foolish, or dumb, and in either case if you back up your belief with a monetary bet you will SOON be parted with your money...
Disclaimer: I no longer own a Mac, but I come from a video editing background. I can tell you from personal experience running BeOS & Linux on PPC, that the biggest performance killer on a Mac was the pre-OS X operating system (and it wasn't so much a "speed" issue as it was latency on task-switching... VERY different issue).
but it is clear that innovation for Apple (at least with this iLamp) is more centered around form than function.
It is about form AND function - even about form FOLLOWING function. Moving to a UNIX based OS is function. Highly integrated software bundles that are "best of breed" (don't you hate that term - but these really are) in their respective niches is function. And while alot of the decisions about form factor are about what Steve Jobs finds aesthetically pleasing if you listened to the key-note the fundamental decisions about form were made so that form would FOLLOW function. The initial designs were like the "20th anniversary mac" a flat panel with the guts of the computer positioned vertically on the back of the panel. Jobs didn't like it BECAUSE it was form over function. Mounting it vertically lost you many of the advantages of having a flat screen (which was no longer flat) made the monitor difficult to adjust, entailed a perfomance hit on drives because they had to be mounted vertically. Having a flat screen that can be positioned however you like is FUNCTION having a very small footprint is FUNCTION. Having few wires is FUNCTION. Even where "function" was "sacrificed" to form it was a deliberate decision based on the specific functions required by the target market. Limited access to the guts of the computer and limited upgradability is a very deliberate, thought out decision based on the fact that the target - non tech-savvy consumers - don't tinker with the internals of their computers. They WANT it to be a "black box" that "just works" without bothering them about the details. That is an anathema to geeks but then this isn't meant for geeks, get the mini-tower if you want upgradeablity and access to the guts. And if a geek really likes the iMac for it's other features I'm sure if he truly is a geek he will hack around the limitations and even have more fun and a greater sense of accomplishment for having done so.
Form is great as long as it FOLLOWS functionality.
This is why the new iMac is so good. The form factor is different BECAUSE it follows function. What is the function of a flat panel? To have a small footprint, to be light and easily adjustable. Then why strap it to an entire computer and lose all of those advantages? Puting the flat panel on an articulated arm is form FOLLOWING function. Having it on that arm even enhances the "function" of positioning. You can move the monitor around even more freely than if it was a seperate component. Even the choice to make the base a half sphere probably has some functional advantages of stability.
Now there were trade-offs between features. The decision was made that the form would have small size as a feature at the expense of expandability as a feature. There is no "right" answer here - especially since Apple makes another machine that makes the same trade-off the other way. Choose which feature you prefer. In a certain way even limited access to the "guts" and limited upgradability can itself be a "feature" to a non tech-savvy consumer who doesn't want to be bothered with technical detail, or even made to feel an implicit responsiblity to do so.
I wonder how long until Yellow Dog has an edition out that works with this and can use the DVD writer. Does it have one already? Somehow I doubt it, but that might make this a decent choice.
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I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Maybe, the graphics system supports rotations (and paths and the like). Maybe you can rotate to coordinate system for the root window and the rest will "just work", if you can get access to the root window.
Failing that you might be able to sneak in a shared library and rotate each window's system just after it is made (you will have to call through to the real library, easy with ELF .so's, and I think OSX uses them). Of corse it may not work for classic, unless it makes normal window calls...
Or you could do it with a KEXT like you suggested.
C O N S U M E R PC. Repeat after me: consumer PC.
The iMacs aren't sold to the techie crowd (like fancies itself here on /.) It's market is folks who want to buy a good PC at a good price, aren't ever planning to crack it open to mess with the insides (like 90% of home PCs are never opened) and don't want something in their living space that looks like a 1950's Singer Sewing Machine in it's case. Oh yeah, and the integration & ease of use Apple's been honing for years are also big pluses.
Do these folks care about specs? No. They care does-it-browse-the-web, can-I-get-online-easily, can-I-read-my-email, does-it-have-MS-Office, will-it-connect-to-my-shiny-new-digital-camera, etc. The closest they'll ever come to caring about a spec is "is it fast enough"; this meaning to feel snappy and keep up with their typing.
Besides which this is some pretty darn kewl hardware on it's own. Silent. Small. Great image. Fast enough. Giga networking. Lotsa ports. The Superdrive is a good deal, particularly when you note the integration into the system. MacOS X which is now the bestselling unix and darn kewl on it's own. No, the iMac isn't an open-the-case-plug-in-parts box, but for what it is it is a pretty kewl box.
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
The keyboard has, like, 70 buttons on it. It also has extra modifier keys that other computers don't have, so we can afford to use Control+click as a context click. You can also Command+click to do a lot of things (open a link in a new window in IE for example), and Shift+click, Option+click, etc. It's not hard, and the hand that stays on the keyboard while you use the TrackPad does the modifier keys.
It's actually easier for many people than a right-click on the mouse. A Shift+right-click is almost impossible for most people to use regularly (both hands are chording) so the spare-keyboard-on-the-mouse thing has limits.
The new iMac has the same Pro Keyboard and Pro Mouse that they've been shipping for a year or so, except that where the keyboard and mouse were previously black, they are white on the new iMac. They are both basically clear with either black or white accents.
> Aren't things like [iPhoto] mostly old
... you don't get lists of technical options ... the apps are very smart and make complex tasks simple and easy. Often, they replace two or three other poorly-suited apps that you were using to get some simple task done the hard way.
> hat with a nifty interface?
With most PC's, you get LE or Lite versions of apps with licensing restrictions and no upgrades. With Apple's bundled software, you get a real product that answers a real need with a full features set, complete with free future upgrades. The "iApps", as they are called, are worth buying the whole computer for, for many users. iTunes, iMovie, and iDVD are all at version 2, and are absolutely the BEST at what they do, bar none, Mac or PC. iPhoto does the things that average people want to do with their digital photos.
Also, these apps are all very easy to use, and lots of fun. People like to use them, and they get great results. These apps are operating a level up from other apps
One the one hand more convent getting around 4G (4.7G?) on one disc, you can have more crap before you need to figure out how to split it up. Nice.
On the other hand it is $5/disc for DVD vs. $0.05 or less (I have 200 free CD-Rs so far) for CD-Rs. That's $0.001/M vs. $0.00007/M (assuming 4.7G for DVD, and a mere 640M on a $0.05 CD-R).
I donno, I'll stick to CD for my backup for now. I'll be happy to let others drive down the DVD-R prices.
(Ok, I'm off to write a perl script to help me back up my pictures...)
Damn good point! At this point, I'm the Solaris guru because: 1) everyone else left (I'm still the newb) and 2) Solaris (and networking in general) scares the piss out of them.
Never thought about that, since I'm asked to work on Win95-2000, Mandrake, Solaris, and recently, DOS(!). Shit, I thought I was losing my touch 'cause I didn't remember all the DOS commands, but I guess your point hits it smack on the head!
Bummer though, I thought everyone liked a good challenge once in a while...
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
This is a fine deal. All you (Chris) as an argument for it not being a deal was that you can get a $200 15" flatpanel. The G4 vs x86 comparison is debatable (not by myself, but by many others). An 800MHz G4 w/Altivec is nothing to sneeze at.
The high end iMac is the real deal maker. A comparable machine (DVDR/CDRW and all) w/ flat panel would run about the same price. Add the coolness facter and it's perfect.
It's not the ripoff that the Cube was, but it's in no way a bad deal at all.
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My comments and opinions completely reflect those of anyone and anything I am remotely associated with.