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Lunchbox Computers for Live Music Performances?
Dan Reetz asks: "As a PC based musician, mobility is critical. However, most laptops have horrible soundcards. PCMCIA cards like a VXPocket cost about 700 clams. A friend of mine recommended I look into 'lunchbox' style computers as a portable solution. A few searches revealed them to be quite expensive and they are hard to find used. Does anyone know of a source for used Lunchbox PC's (even just the diplay would be fine) or a better low latency/noise audio solution for laptops?"
I've seen Shuttle SV24s with pretty good kits inside of them. Starting at $250 buy-in, that's not bad. Also, I've seen one where a guy bolted on an Amp Strap to the top of the case, which seemed to work well.
What about the empeg? http://www.empeg.com
M-Audio and one other manufacturor (I can't remember their name) make USB and Firewire break out boxes for laptops with Audio In/Out (Balanced XLRS, 1/4 stereo and mono) with on-board high-quality DACs.
I'm looking to get the M-Audio one for my iBook to do digital recording as Macs don't come with Audio in anymore, leaving it up to third parties to make Firewire/USB solutions. They have low latency (I would image the Firewire one would be lower due to Firewire's higher transfer rate), but I've heard nothing but good things about them.
Also, if you're doing sequencing, you can get a MIDI breakout box and connect to another MIDI device for audio output.
Why not get a USB audio device? I have the Audiosport Quattro and it works great. www.edirol.com has some nice cheaper ones as well.
I have done a dj thing at a small event (party for uni society) with just a PC and a whole load of tracks i ripped for ease or mixing on a pc. Plus with a TV out card card winamp plugins can be projected onto a well
Seriously, its not really that hard. Check out the case and cooling forum at ArsTechnica:= fr m&s=50009562&f=77909585
http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?a
Search around and I'm sure you'll find guidelines on how to build if not a lunchbox computer, at least a suitcase computer.
Lunchbox machines aren't meant to be cheap or inexpensive...Their meant to be ruggedized PC's in portable enclosures for jobs that need the full power and expandability of a desktop PC without the (relative) fragility that comes along with desktops. You probably are not going to find one cheap. If you want this kind of power and can be reasonably careful, an intelligently built desktop that is carefully secured inside the case can do your job. You want that ruggedness...you're going to pay for it.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
If you're looking for an older-style sound, say...like a cheap clock radio, i'd definetly recommend a Sparc Classic. With 8-bit & 11kHz you can't go wrong. But, if that's not in the cards, I'd recommend finding a nice 10" monitor like they have for grocery store checkouts. Couple that with a box the size of a classic with a nice sound card and you'd do fine. Not the most portable, but I assume you'd haul it to point B, set it up, play some tunes, take it down, drive back to A. Really not that much work I'd think.
Chaos, Mayhem, and Destruction: Not
Why replace a whole computer (with a $999+ component from ThinkGeek, perhapse)? Keep the laptop, but use a different method of getting the tunes *OUT*.
You know that PCMCIA cards suck. Have you tried USB or maybe Paraell port? I know of one product, lp3, hooks into the paraell port and you basically print the MP3 to it. Unfortunately the lp3 is not shipping (they're having problems handling shipping).
I've also heard of the LPBlaster, and of course numerous supported USB audio devices...
--
# Canmephians for a better Linux Kernel
$Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.net";
A cheap new laptop with your expensive PCMICA sound card would still be under $2000. Thats much cheaper than any of the decent luggables, and less expensive than making your own luggable - if your time is worth more than $20 an hour. If price is an issue, than a used MicroATX form factor computer with a 15" LCD monitor strapped to it permently coulden't cost more than $1000 and would weigh about 15 poinds. Paint the whole thing black with Krylon and it might even look cool.
Moneyed corporations, non-working 'poor' and criminal prisoners are turning productive citizens into tax-slaves.
The Apple PowerBooks have a good reputation among musicians. Apple has posted a page of music-related technologies for the PowerMac line, such as the AudioSport Quattro 24/96, described as "24-bit 96kHz USB audio and MIDI interface with direct monitoring switches; 4x4 audio interface; with ASIO and OMS MIDI drivers."
There was a similar article on Slashdot (a long time ago, not a dig at /. editors) which should have some good ideas for you. I only remember it because I was the one who asked the question.
Kind thoughts do not change the world
especially because you have to pay royalties on whatever special character you want on it. For example, some people would want Batman Lunchbox PCs; Some would want Cabbage Patch Kids. And some (like me) would want the almighty Penguin-Man.
Don't listen to them, it's a conspiracy; THAT'S the real reason LPCs get pricey
How about using the USB ports for audio? You probably don't want a cheap pair of USB speakers, but perhaps just a box you can hook up from USB to your amplifier. A quick web search found one but of course I have no idea if it meets your quality needs. If this works, you could use any laptop with decent USB.
Perhaps you could get a small computer that has a PCI slot, such as a Shuttle SV24. Get a flat-screen display and a small keyboard and mouse, and then stick in your choice of high-quality PCI-based sound card. This plus a couple of carrying cases would be about as functional as a lunchbox portable, and a heck of a lot cheaper.
Good luck.
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
Check out CyberResearch (PDF) or Their Website for some nice machines like you describe. I know I've posted about them before, I used to work for them, and while, this stuff is not cheap, it is high quality and they stand behind it. If this is going to be your livelyhood, why not do it right the first time. I'd rather spend $3000 once then spend $1000 4 times.
Don't Tread on Me
As a musical instrument-based programmer, I still haven't found a grand piano with a good C compiler ...
Seriously though, what the heck is a "PC-based musician" ?
This case and appropriate components (flatpanel monitor) could work well for this, so long as you have a nice PCI, USB, or firewire device for your audio. Of course, I don't know if having everything so cramped increases interference in the audio components, but if you are really in need of this quality you probably want a set up that keeps things digital until the signal is well away from the computer itself.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Whether you have a Mac or a PC, and assuming you are making techno/electro, you may want to take a look at Propellerheads' Reason. Another cheaper alternative is Fruity Loop.
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Here's a site devoted to getting mobile music out of your notebook.
He recommends the "EMU8710" and the "WaMi Box". A quick net search shows 'em both running about $400 - a little more reasonable than the $700 quoted above.
If it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet.
EgoSys has two products that you could use for notebooks: WaMi Box, which is a PCMCIA, and Waveterminal U2A, which is supposedly very good.
You should also check out usb-audio.com!
Any technology distinguishable from magic, is insufficiently advanced.
If your whole gig setup is a fullsized tower and a 15" monitor, you're lucky.
Think about how much gear your average performer has on stage. Amps, effects, mixers, it's endless. That's why the band/crew shows up at 3pm for a 9pm show, even at a small club. Much carrying has to be done before the soundcheck. You're usually lucky to find time for dinner before they open the doors..
I'd suggest getting the most solid midi-tower you can, a the smallest cheapest monitor you can live with and go.. The monitor is gonna get a beer dropped in it sooner or later anyway, so go for cheap not quality. Bring super solid cables and lots of extras. Have balanced XLR outputs ideally. Running RCAs to a PA requires special boxes which the club may not have.
I've been thinking about building a similar type thing myself. Take a good, metal briefcase. Go to your local computer hobby shop, and pick up a small motherboard, perferably with intigrated ethernet/modem, etc. Throw in a video and sound card, whatever proc you like, etc. Put it in the bottom of the briefcase so that the sound and video are flush with the side. Cut two rectangular holes in the side, so that the cards can have the plugs sticking out, just like in a case. Mount a sheet of metal above this. The keyboard and mouse rest there. In the top of the briefcase, take a flat screen (15in for under 300 now) cut off the stand and mount it in the top. Run the cords to a small surge that fits in the case, and cut a door for the cable to come out and plug in. I'm sure something could be done for battery power. There, for not much more than a normal desktop, you have a portable powerhouse, that will do whatever you want.
Sig!
Midiman makes the quattro usb based sound system that apparently has very low latency and excelent quality. The price is pretty low too. It has 4 i/o's and you can get the omni system that adds 8 more inputs to it
GoatPigSheep, the 3 most important food groups
I got to share my favorite anecdote about rugged pcs. Some guy was having problems doing live shows, and his labtop was completely crashing. Apparently, the massive bass from the sound system was knocking the heads of the hard disk around, causing the computer to act all goofy. That's a pretty difficult problem to resolve.
Anyways, my friend described it as an up to date version of a Godel Escher Bach tale where the tortoise is trying to build a record player that can't be broken. But no matter how complicated a machine he makes, there is always a record that will destroy his system.
That wasn't all the clear, but if you know the book, you'll get the gist of whatIsayin.
Amen. So many of these slashdot questions (and I'm not usually so critical of them) are in the form of:
;)
... you know you're on the right path when you're dealing with cheap enough gear thats not quite good enough, not when you're looking at aquiring super expensive gear thats likely overkill for your desired application and use on the cheap.
The rest of the world seems to have to do/pay X to make Y. I don't have X. How do I make Y?
Computer based musicians should know that it's a terribly expensive hobby. I say hobby, because, he's obviously not makin too much money off of it. What would he do if he actually had to pay for his software too (as the software will usually run you up into the 1000$'s once you have all the neccessary effect and software synth packages most comp based musicians need)? Oh wait, I guess he'd just ask where he could pick up Emagic Logic Audio on the cheap too
As for the original question, going the lunch box route would be lunacy. They were not built for mobile musicians, so why not realize that the best route would be to figure out what other musicians of his industry demographic are doing? His underlying question would be far more appropriate on a comp-musician's website like Sonic State or Harmony Central
"Old man yells at systemd"
What you really want is a regular laptop with a Firewire audio interface. There are several on the market now geared more towards multi-channel stuff, but I'm working on a hardware design that would make a high-quality (think 24bit, 192KHz) stereo output relatively cheap (say $100). Email me at omega at temple - baptist dot com for more info, but don't expect anything usable for a few months ;-}
GStreamer - The only way to stream!
I'm also an electronic musician and have had good luck with USB audio adapters.
There are three rather good cheap ones out right now:
- The iMic which works on Win32 machines and run for $35, check out their stats at www.griffintechnology.com. 24 bit/48khz, etc.
As well as the somewhat cheap entries from Emagic and Roland/Edirol
All three support ASIO, I believe. I've never experienced any performance issues with USB audio devices, as the USB bandwidth is more than enough to handle audio tasks.
Screw the lunchbox, and just stick with the laptop, it's much easier to work from one computer, and if you're like me, you're surgically attached to your laptop.
As a minimal solution, it isn't too hard to actually build a box to this sort of spec. For a case, start with a toolbox and hollow it out; then strap in a power supply, a small motherboard, and all the goodies. A bit of cutting work should let the ports and so on come out.
This is different from trying to build a portable or luggable since it doesn't need its own power source -- if you're doing music, you probably have access to 120VAC somewhere. So a traditional power supply can work.
A setup like this could easily come down to the $1000 price range, and open you to putting more money into a really good sound card...
I've had great results with my MOTU 828. It's a rack-mount unit that connects to my laptop via Firewire, with many digital (2 channel S/PDIF I/O, 8 channel 24-bit ADAT lightpipe) and analog inputs (6 1/4" and 2 Neutrik XLR/TRS combo connectors with optional 48v phantom power), all with 24-bit converters w/excellent range) and outputs (8 1/4"). It's rack mountable, it's got drivers for PC and Mac, and it's very dependable -- I've had absolutely no problems whatsoever. And it ships with both ASIO and WDM drivers for PC, which means that it will work with any sequencer or audio program.
Building Better Software
If you are going the homebrew route, one case that may be worth checking out is the case from an old compact SPARC. They had very small, very dense cases which are just great for luggable applications, and quite robust. You can probably pick one up very cheap as scrap.
unless you need the 24/96 fidelity for something (and if you're playing live it's not really going to make a difference) just use what comes built into the notebook and get a $6 patch cable at the shack. i know many musicians who use PCs (some highly successful) and only the truly anal and wealthy among them has invested in high-end sound for the PC that they take to gigs.
here's my alternate solution: get a portable 19" audio rack bin ($60-$200 available at any fine audio gear merchant) and a cheap 1U rackmount box with 1 PCI clot from siliconrax or somebody ($700-$2000 depending on configuration). get a delta66 adapter (probably $150 by now) and shut off the onboard sound. in this way, your computer is fairly self-contained and portable, and you have more rack space for your effects, mixers, nord lead or whatever else you need to carry.
I used to do a lot of tracker and MIDI music and I learned many helpful tips about eliminating audio noise in electronic systems:
- "It's just a matter of opinion!" - PRIMUS
You may want to take a look at Magma's solution : an external box with pci slots that you'll connect to your laptop using the pcmcia ports. You maqy even put a scsi harddisc inside !
Imagine this coupled with a Yamaha SW1000XG soundcard...
Trolling using another account since 2005.
24bitfaq.org is an excellent resource for high quality moble recording info.
shoOz
I use a notebook computer for live performances, and bought the Emagic EMI 2|6 USB audio interface. It's great. 24-bit DAC, 48 KHz, 2 ins, 6 outs, coaxial S/PDIF, $325. If you use Logic Audio like me, then it gives you the added bonus of low-latency virtual instrument playback. Check it out.
I think this was posted on /. once. These will probably help you:
1 .h tm
http://www.supersiteusa.com/lanjunky1/briefcase
In Vino Veritas
> Read something else and don't waste his time with a lame reply.
/wanted/ to give a lame reply. Things only seem to happen when you complain about them enough (look at Bush's attitude towards taxes, which makes absolutely no sense). I suppose you didn't want to give a lame reply (offtopic to boost!), or am I confusing your reply with a useful one?
Uh, Mr. AC, obviously I
"Old man yells at systemd"
According to their FAQ, there is support for USB audio in the 2.4 kernel, but they haven't tried it themselves. I'd be interested in seeing if anyone has hacked it into working order. It'd be really nice for my laptop.
Hand me that airplane glue and I'll tell you another story.
There has been for a very long time. I have a 286 luggable to hand, you could shoehorn a small mobo into it and (because it was designed for a baby-AT with ISA slots) do some surgery on a Yamaha or other cheap-but-good PCI soundcard to fit it in.
You'd probably have to use a laptop CPU to avoid overloading the ancient PSU in those things but OTOH the hard drives of the era weren't exactly light on power either so a compromise with a low-ish powered mainstream CPU might work.
You generally don't get battery operation like a laptop, though, unless you're also prepared to lug an inverter and battery, or modify a PSU to suck 12V (not as difficult as it sounds but still need some electronics expertise) and lug just a battery (or 'gator clips and a lead to your car).
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
That's a really good idea for the actual computer. How would you rack mount a keyboard or monitor though? What would that look like?
Check out Roland's site for more information.
Have you ever lugged record cases around? What a pain. Songs are information, and information just shouldn't need to weigh so much.
The specs say it requires Windows. What's the deal with linux support?
Who uses linux for pro audio?[1]
This guy sounds like he's doing something a bit more advanced than playing MP3 remixes of the "Free Software Song".
Something where decent software support just might come into the picture.
C-X C-S
[1] Nobody. Last I heard all the major PA wares were win/mac only.
You can get a firewirecard for your laptop for not a lot of $$. Then drive it with a Sony media converter DVMC-DV1(rougly $300). The media converter runs off of 6v so you can either power it with a wall wart or some batteries. You can capture/play DV audio/video with this beast quite reasonably at a lot les $$ than buying a full dv deck.
That would be the sv24 made by shuttle, available at Newegg.com.
only 1 expansion slot though...
Laid? What's that, one of the moderating point types?
"Old man yells at systemd"
Add an LCD screen (maybe even fix it onto the side of the case, or buy one of their POS PCs with screen already included), and the sound card(s) of your choice, and you're set. There is a potential for heat problems, because of the ultra-crowded case, but provided you don't lock it away in a small closet with junk crowded all around it (as my users tended to do), you'll be fine.
I remember Dolch from way back when. They invented the high performance rugged lunchbox format machine. They make several different models and types.
www.dolch.com
they fucking rule.
I should hope that an iPod would get its power from some sort of battery - otherwise its usefulness as a "portable" device is rather limited.
That's it. I'm no longer part of Team Sanity.
PCMCIA cards like a VXPocket cost about 700 clams
Pardon the OT post, but if you could come up with 700 clams...from the beach, say...would the stores honor this? Of course, these commercials offered stereos for bananas, but same idea.
I pledge allegiance to the flag...
of the Corporate States of America...
Power, grounding, and signals should follow the same tree structure, fanning out from a single power source and grounding point. You may have to violate this rule; if you do, an audio isolation transformer should be placed somewhere in the signal chain to break the loop.
I picked up the shuttle FV24 and and one of these. The board fits perfectly. I attached a 2.5in HDD inside lid with Velcro and laid some foam packing uder the Mobo for insulation then broke out the Dremel. There isn't any room to utilize the lone PCI slot (though a TV in card would be cool) and I'm still looking for a good power supply solution but this will rock when it's done.
We really need your help
http://www.gofundme.com/help-sherry
There are at least two pro level FireWire multichannel audio adapters out now. One is the MOTU 828, which is a rack-mount unit that Glyph makes a matching rack-mount storage unit for as well. There is another that is notebook-sized, but I can't remember the name. You can find it in a good music magazine, or through pro audio sites. With either of these adapters, you just hot-plug a FireWire cable between the adapter and the computer, and then install whatever software is necessary.
You can get a notebook with FireWire from Apple (any notebook from the past two years or so), Sony (some models), and a few others. Apple's machines also support mLAN, which is Yamaha's replacement for MIDI and optical digital cables, which also runs over FireWire. The content creation industries are standardizing on FireWire right now wherever they can. It's built to answer the problems that music and audio and video people face.
I don't know what the state of USB Audio is on Windows, but on the Mac you can get a small, cheap adapter like Griffin iMic ($25) and you get 24-bit stereo recording that's free of any internal computer noise. If you only need stereo, this is an easy solution. There are also some USB mic preamps, enabling you to plug a high-quality mic into USB and get good results.
Hah, very true.. although the original poster meant that it charges the battery via the FireLink.
We've done something similar in building ISDN test rigs to carry about.
Basically, take a small form factor PC, and a small LDC monitor, and get the people who build the flight cases for your musical instruments to build a case around them.
Such an arrangement doesn't weigh an awful lot, you get full size(an hence high capacity) disks; PCI slots; even a CD-R. And it will probably work out cheaper than a laptop would.
~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?