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California's "Wireless-Free" Zone
pangur writes: "In Wired, there's the story about how Arthur Firstenberg changed Mendocino, CA into a 'wireless-free zone' as a safehaven for those deemed 'electrically sensitive'. His critics claim that he is driving away any chance of a significant economy."
Sensitive, luddite granola types spotted in California! Nose cut to spite face! News at 11:00!
That book of his sounds interesting. Is there an electronic version available?
There already is an area like this, It's called the Amish Country, Pennsylvania Dutch, etc. Seriously. The article describes being bothered by anything electronic, ranging from radio waves to hairdryers. May as well go back to the horse and buggy.
Don't Tread on Me
They should move to another universe, provided they aren't already living in one...
Eric
"Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
Mendocino had been attracting thousands of people due to their reduced levels of EMF exposure. It now seems that these people may have been actually endangering their mental health.
-bugg
I would certainly be the first to admit that all these waves that we've been sending out and bouncing around for about the last hundred odd years could be harmful. Hell, I'm not even sure that it would surprise me. But I know there are great benefits to wireless networking (not to mention electricity), and good luck getting entirely away from signals and waves. Go to some third world underdeveloped country if you must, cause I don't think you're going to find it here.
Also, the very important point that what if some others in Mendicino like thier radio waves. I would certainly not want to see this guy's problem inflicted on everyone else in this community.
Cheers, Joshua
When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!
I must be electrically sensitive too, because every time I put a fork on the wall socket I also get a "Burning pain" and "Electric shocks".
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
That must take on hell of a large microwave, and what setting would you use? "Half-Baked"
Is a Sig really an expression of the person behind the post or just random nonsense?
It's worked for kooks for many, many years. In fact, you might say it's a "proven" solution to the problems of wireless interference with your brain waves, at least to the same extent that it's been "proven" that wireless hurts your head!
development.lombardi.com
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
and how is this accomplished exactly? What credible research shows that one person is more likely to be affected by radio waves then someone else. Does this also mean that there are no TV broadcasts, no radio broadcasts, no police radios, no satellite reception. I mean... if you're going to cut one source of RF, you better cut it all, just to be on the safe side.
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
Some of "the town's 1,000-odd residents" are pretty odd indeed.
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from the article:
"People vary in their sensitivity to EMFs, and up to 20% of the population (according to Swedish research) can become electrically sensitive."
Damn, no TVs, VCRs, video games, Microwaves, phones, powerlines, hair dryers, etc. for 20%!!!!! That's like 1/5th of the population. That would really suck. This sounds to me like a simple ploy. People like this guy are always up to something, and that is usually no good. For what it's worth, you can always find stats to prove what ever you want.
Call me skeptical, but this is PR BullSh!t.
Besides, wouldn't they be ok if they wore the static guards used for working on computer equipment?
Sent from your iPad.
The following can provoke symptoms:
Laptop computers using their mains adapters Computer monitors (VDTs, VDUs) Televisions Mobile phones Fluorescent lights Pylons, substations Electric fields due to house wiring Electrical 'noise' in trains, buses and cars Battery-operated appliances Telephones, answering machines and faxes Refrigerators, freezers, electric cookers, vacuum cleaners etc. Fire alarms and burglar alarms Underground electric cables Hearing-aid induction loops
If the "electrically sensitive" people can't be near any of those, they might as well become Amish...
-- Dr. Eldarion --
More than likely these people are hypochondriacs. People will say they feel better in these 'wireless-free' areas for the same reason people prefer bottled water to tap water: 'placebo effect' or 'the power of suggestion'.
She sat at the window watching the evening invade the avenue.
How can one make a zone wireless free? From the article it seems that they are worried about the radio emissions from radio and other devices. Just because they have that small area where no cell phone towers exist, it doesn't mean that there are no radio waves in the area. If humans could see the radio waves it would totally freak us out since there is SO much out there. Just think of how many waves are out there just for your local TV and radio stations.
Hypochondria run amok! I'd be interested in knowing what other "conditions" these people have suffered from in the past.
Although, this would explain the feeling of dread and nausea I get when cell phone caller ID displays my boss calling.
... is the aluminum-foil-covered hat to keep out the CIA mind control rays. There has never been a single piece of hard evidence for low-intensity radio waves causing the symptoms he and others describe. Considering how long radio-based devices have been in common use (just over a century) it's very hard to believe that this is real.
In fact, it sounds to me like classic mass hysteria, which (unfortunately) is a well-documented medical phenomenon. If this guy and his buddies are looking for a place to live that will satisfy their needs, may I suggest Salem, Mass.?
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
I don't know about effects on one's health, but radio frequency interference can be a real problem. For example, I have a set of cordless headphones that I use so I can roam my room listening to music and not bother anyone else. However, my neighbor's cordless phone uses the same frequency (approximately 900MHz, in case you're interested.) I can tell when he's using the phone because the static interrupts my music. If I tune my headphones carefully, I can even hear his conversation.
Banning wireless technology entirely (as the article describes them doing in Mendocino) is probably not a good solution, but I think there should be regulations and standards enforced to make ensure better cooperation between wireless devices, to prevent interference.
"This overexposure to pulsed microwaves has been a personal tragedy for me," Wagner said in an e-mail interview. "I'm left hypersensitive -- even my mouse burns my hand when I use my computer now."
Am I the only person who doesn't understand this? Why did he give an *email* interview if using computers is so painful to him?
Tarsnap: Online backups for the truly paranoid
""This overexposure to pulsed microwaves has been a personal tragedy for me," Wagner said in an e-mail interview. "I'm left hypersensitive -- even my mouse burns my hand when I use my computer now."
Isn't a mouse a MECHANICAL DEVICE - virtually 99 percent electronics free...there may be a diode or two in there..but it can't be generating an electronic signal - it's probably only getting the barest of electricity from the PS2 port to power the thing. (unless you're using one of those new Infrared mice) -
If it's burning your hand, then that means it's probably IN YOUR FRIGGEN HEAD!!!!
Sounds like someone's setting themselves up for another juicy lawsuit. Glad I don't live in California right now or I'd be paying for it.
----------
ah honey, we're all resplendent - Bill Mallonee
For someone who is "Hypersensitive" wouldn't this be harmful?
"Nowadays when Firstenberg travels, he lugs along a bevy of devices to detect radio frequencies, including a meter that gauges electrical, magnetic and microwave fields."
"shocking and electrifying"
-- Knowing too much can get you killed, but knowing who knows too much can make you rich.
I am a bit of a geek with a few PCs in my room + lapto + stero equipment like many a slashdot reader has I am sure. However I find that I possitivly cannot sleep if there is anything electrical near my bed. I accidentally left a mobile phone near me the other night and couldn't sleep a wink. Probably caused by too mush slashdotting and irc. My GF is similar she cannot sleeo with her alarm clock by her bed as it gives her nightmares
Somebody needs to put straitjackets on these folks and lock them in a padded Faraday Cage.
Meldroc, Waster of Electrons
Why doesn't this guy build himself a Faraday cage, and leave everybody else alone?
Nope, don't like it. Too simple. Too clear cut...
The revolution will be televised. Blackout restrictions apply.
The guy's electrically sensitive, and yet he carries around sensors to tell him when he's in fields he's sensitive to. :) Funny, I'm thermally sensitive (anything over a couple hundred degrees causes intense burning pains), but I don't carry around a thermometer to tell me when I've stepped in the campfire.
And I have one all-important question: Have *any* of these people been tested within the confines of an experiment to see if they *really* experience these problems? Try putting them through an experiment in an environment secure & devoid of radio activity (say, a bunker somewhere with a guassian cage around it).
Such an experiment would entail:
Only with that kind of an experiment can their claims be given any sort of credence. Until then, its all quackery.
The same people mentioned in the article also have managed to keep cell towers from being put up - thus, no one in the area has a cell phone. They also are lobbying to have the radio tower at the local high school shut down. (Apparently, KPFA over the hill in Booneville is okay, however)
Granted, but as a chronic kidney stone former, I prefer bottled or filtered water to the tap - I live in a so-called Kidney Stone belt due to levels of minerals and such in our drinking water...
However I agree that Bob Evian is making a killing from the tap in his "Mountain" basement.
Not the CIA! Major League Baseball with their roving constellations of satellites...
Hypochondria is one word for it... The thing is that a lot of these people don't want to hear that what they have is really a mental imbalance. I've heard of people with imagined skin parasites too -- they will go to the dermatologist, present no obvious symptoms, and simply do not wish to be told that what they really need is a mild antipsychotic.
It's a bizarre situation. I feel safe in saying that these people's conditions are probably delusional; what has to be brought into account is that whether or not it's all in their heads, their suffering is certainly real. The problem is that they take any attempt to bridge the disconnect as a personal insult...
/Brian
The Cabal is behind it all! Think about it! What do Mozart's Silver Flute, the Defenestration of Prague, Philip K Dick, and Dubya all have in common? Who was it that poisoned Rusty? And Inoshiro?
It's not the Black Helicopters you fool! Those are just a ruse to distract your attention from the Real Truth! (They're chartreuse helicopters, anyway.) You have been wasting years of your empty life in an obsessive, paranoiac search for the truth! And you can't handle the Truth! The Truth is that there is one, single, true conspiracy!
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Isn't there an area in West Virginia, something like 10 miles square, where you can't get radio, TV, or cellular? Started by accident but then the radio astronomers and spooks decided they like the low RF background.
Residents hate it, and want cable.
What a f%cking nut job this Firstenberg is. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the nutburger preaching all the multiple chemical sensitivity crap. Its sad to see a local economy being devistated by the lunatic fears of a vocal whackjob.
Click on my link and read about real science and not this pseudo science cow manure.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
Didja see the part where he doesn't disclose his diagnosis, so he can keep collecting disability benefits? His scam goes:
1) Whine a lot about a man-made phenomenon.
2) Get good at malingering.
3) See a doctor, claiming 1) makes you "sick".
4) Vote for your living from that day forward. (The louder you bitch, the more you cash in!)
Really, this guy deserves a kick from every Californian, because we are supporting this bullshit with our taxes.
This is a VERY easy "condition" to test.
I take the "patient" and put him or her in a shielded room so that the detectors all read 0.
Naturally I have a partition in the room so that I can beam waves at the "patient" from the other side of the partition (the partition is also part of the shielded room) without their knowledge.
Turn on the transmitter at random intervals and see if and, more importantly, when, they complain.
Absolute statements are never true
People vary in their sensitivity to EMFs, and up to 20% of the population (according to Swedish research) can become electrically sensitive.
Anybody notice that this doesn't cite the article, or quote it? Where was it published, the Swedish edition of The Journal of Irreproducible Results?
Perhaps they should put up a giant metal sheild over the whole town to block out services like satellite TV and GPS too.....or just lobby the providers of those services to stop them entirely.
On a slight tangent, is the effect created by microwaving a town wacko about the same as for an AOL CD?
...as the idiot with the web site dedicated to eliminating letterboxed movies and television because "the black bars are censoring the movie".
There was a movie out several years ago called "S.A.F.E" about that chemical sensitivity crap. Please avoid it at all costs, as it is about a nutjob who thinks she's allergic to everything and must live in a clean porcelain box.
All you nutjobs out there...you don't like electromagnetic radiation? I suggest you bury yourselves deep within the ground in a lead lined box...even that will not stop many cosmic rays from penetrating your soul from time to time.
That hyphen is entirely superfluous.
I object to that article, and to the next reply.
That most of the RF radiation received on earth comes from space...you know from places like the SUN! I know...Mendocino is going to build a giant aluminumized dome over itself..and become the SUN FREE ZONE! What a pure whacko!
There is a communities of people who live wire and wireless free in the US, they are called the Amish. Nice folk, live a simple life. They don't try to remove radio stations from nearby communities.
Now if someone beleives that the transmissions are giving them trouble, move to Montana or North Dakota, don't stay in Ca and certainly don't try to move everyone backwards with you. There are alternatives, and they are feasable.
Burn Hollywood Burn
People in mendo are really easily swayed by hysterical rantings, especially if they're involved with conspiracies and anti-"The Man". Much the way /. is about Microsoft. Crackpot theories are a pretty big market there.
If I leave my laptop on my lap for more than a few minutes, I develop a burning sensation.
Bender: (points scanner at Fry)
Fry: Ouch, My Sperm.
Bender: (Scans Fry again)
Fry: Funny, it didn't hurt that time.
SD
âoeWho knew something as harmless as willful ignorance could end up having real consequences?â
TIA!
Curb CO2 emissions: Kill yourself today!
I was wiring a 3 phase 220 outlet and I got hit with 220. It thew me clear across the room. I guess this would qualify me as "electrically sensitive".
-ted
>Some people are whackjobs
... graduated from Cornell University with a degree in mathematics and a minor in physics.
That was my initial impression, scanned the article for evidence of the 'tinfoil-hat' syndrome, but found this instead:
Firstenberg
Now, I'm not about to say that he can't be a 'whackjob' because he is a university graduate, but it does seem to throw water on the 'he's just some random nutcase' angle I was expecting to hear.
Then again...
A series of public forums were launched, in which technophiles argued in favor of the service, and the anti-wireless folks -- including a woman who appeared at one meeting wearing dark sunglasses and protective headgear to ward off stray signals -- insisted that the plan was dangerous.
I do feel sorry for anyone who has problems which they are only able to attribute to unseen forces like radio waves, microwaves, magnetic fields, etc.. but showing up wearing protective headgear is hard to take seriously (in the absence of any scientific/medical evidence).
There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
English teacher Christy Wagner said her students suddenly became "irritable and easily distracted" and that she herself felt nauseous whenever she was at the school
::snore::
Since when have English students not been irritable and easily distracted?
Teacher: "Billy, what did Shakespeare mean with his use of the term 'ass-backwards' in Sonnet 103?"
Billy:
The list of symptoms is like a hypochondriacs grab bag: Such vague, common symptoms like "sleep problems", or "tiredness". To be honest it sounds more like depression than anything else.
Until such a time as they can put someone in a radio isolated room, and test how they feel with and without a transmitter turned on, with a positive correlation, I find this absolutely ridiculous. The symptom list is exactly the same as the sympton list used for dirty vents, bad office air, extended computer use, drinking unfiltered water, having bad feng sheu, etc.
Prove a paranormal ability and Randi will give you one million U.S. dollars, baby.
Seriously. A million bucks. No kidding.
Well, Mr Firstenberg?
We're waiting.
We're still waiting.
We're going to be waiting forever, as usual, aren't we?
Just to save Mr Firstenberg some time, I'll list a typical collection of objections to the validity of Randi's offer, as proffered by various alleged levitators and mind readers, on Mr Firstenberg's behalf:
"There is no money. There is too little money. There is too much money. I want to see the money in a pile. Proximity to cash compromises my spiritual enlightenment. Randi is a powerful anti-psi ray emitter. Randi is a cannibal and I am afraid of him. The FBI will forcibly change my gender if I win. I want it in Tongan Pa'angas, not US dollars. Money is an illusion. Property is theft. I'm a teapot! I'm a teapot!"
Actually, don't avoid the movie. It's an interesting look at exactly the sort of hypochondria this guy has -- while the character in the movie SEEMS to have intense allergic reactions to everyday chemicals, near the end of the movie it's made... not CLEAR, exactly, but definitely implied as a theme of the film that it's more psychological. The chem-free camp she goes to feels awkwardly wrong, her new lifestyle is so sterile that she's barely alive, etc...
Not totally off topic. This movie is actually good footage to study the issue. Even if you feel the issue is crackpots and tinfoil hats, it illustrates what can lead to this sort of reaction.
I would really like this guy to be wired up to something that may or may not be emitting low-level electromagnetic signals he claims hurt him so much. Say a series of mice that may or may not have had every piece of conductor ripped out of them. If he can successfully guess 20 times (odds of 2^20:1 ~ a million to one), which shouldn't be so difficult if these things physically hurt him. Until then, I don't think I am alone in thinking this guy is a nut-bar.
Not to mention that if he tries to stifle my broadband internet access, I'll hook him up to some very high-voltage mice indeed.
not_cub
q='echo "q=$s$q$s;s=$b$s;b=$b$b;$q"';s=\';b=\\;echo "q=$s$q$s;s=$b$s;b=$b$b;$q"
Sensitivity of the emotional kind is called for here.
The tin-foil hat brigade need places to live, too.
--
E_NOSIG
If one were really serious (ly-screwed-up IMHO) about this, one could construct their home as a Faraday cage. Just lay chicken wire around the entire frame (through the double-paned windows and attached to the steel doors' frame, and use conductive weatherproofing in the door jambs) and connect it all together (solder/weld/twist all points of all corners together) into one giant grounded box. All RF with wavelengths less than about one-tenth the gap of the chicken wire will be blocked (the same principle is used for the window on your microwave oven, it's also why you can see through some satellite dishes). If you want this home to have power, you'll want to hook the breaker panel to a large iron-core transformer which will act as a low-pass filter. A similar low-pass filter can be used for the phone line.
Such a home would be unable to recieve TV or radio, DSL or power-line networking would never pass through, cellphones and government-planted transmitter bugs would be dead inside, and you wouldn't have to worry much about lightning strikes either. Of course it would be cheaper to move out into the boonies.
Pure bliss huh?
*groan*
Well,
The City of Helsinki made recently a study about the effects of mobile phones in hospitals. In most of cases there's no interference or only if the mobile phone is located excatly next to the instrument. After the study most of restrictions on mobile phone use have been lifted, although there's still some areas (intense care etc.) there's mobile phones are prohibited.
'Ol smokey trying to stop da rubber duck! least they wont be able to use those rader guns anymore either...
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
Let's just compare the symptoms of the two...
(Dehydration references: here and here.)
ES: Unusual tiredness, Flu-like symptoms, Weakness
Dehydration: Weakness, Fatigue and/or loss of energy
ES: Problems with concentration, dizziness and loss of memory, Sound sensitivity, Sun sensitivity
Dehydration: dizziness, changes in mental state (disorientation, memory loss), Delirium, Irritability
ES: Unconsciousness
Dehydration: Loss of consciousness
ES: Cardiac palpitations
Dehydration: Rapid or weak pulse
ES: Headaches, Teeth and jaw pains, aches in muscles and joints, Burning pain
Dehydration: Headache or bodyache
ES: Nausea and digestive problems
Dehydration: Nausea, vomitting
ES: Dryness of the upper respiratory tract
Dehydration: Dry mouth
ES: Perspiration
Dehydration: Sweating
-------------
Dehydration doesn't account for all the symptoms, but it sure does cover a lot. Makes you wonder if Mendicino just needs a mandatory water consuption policy...
Police officer: sir, I noticed that your driving seems as if you are unusally tired and/or dizzy. Have you been drinking?
Guy: No officer, not a drop!
Police officer: I knew it! I can spot dehydration a mile away! Take this low life and put him in the tank until he sobers up.
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
Firstenberg refused to disclose his diagnosis, which allows him to collect disability income
If he visits wireless-saturated San Francisco, three hours south of Mendocino, his devices go berserk and he experiences multiple symptoms, including an unquenchable thirst, a pressure in his chest and behind his eyeballs, and "buzzing sensations" in his lips.
Apparently it is possible to get on the gubment cheese by claiming an affliction derived from the plot of any Gilligan's Island episode.
Anybody want a peanut?
He didn't realize he was using a 2.4 GHz cordless mouse 10 miles from the actual computer and someone had hooked up a giant hidden power supply inside the mouse.
No wonder it's burning his hand! It could burn trees down if they were between him and the receiver!
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
"I have people calling me, crying to me that they're in pain all the time, asking me where they can live," Firstenberg said. "I tell them we're trying to save Mendocino as a refuge."
What I want to know is, why are these people using telephones? Cry to him in a letter! On unbleached, natural paper, of course, using squid ink.
I hope this woman uses a wireless mouse:
"This overexposure to pulsed microwaves has been a personal tragedy for me," Wagner said in an e-mail interview. "I'm left hypersensitive -- even my mouse burns my hand when I use my computer now."
That's just too funny.
One more thing, if these people are electrically sensitive, how are they calling this guy on their phones? Shouldn't they be using a can and string or maybe a letter or something?
~ now you know
Field day for all California Ham's should be held in Mendocino this year. Special emphasis on 23cm moonbounce operation requested. All HF ops with 1500 watt amps should bring their own generators, as an electrical shortage is expected.
Temkin
so if i go there and start using my cell phone near someone can they arrest me for ES-assault?
Even if they had a legitimate problem (which i dont believe they do) i say there obvioulsy not as evolved as they should be and to bad for them - life sucks then you get run over by a bus.
Ave Molech Setting
I remember in physics class in high school, we figured out the strength of the EM field around a high voltage wire. We calculated that even as close at 50 feet (like wires suspended in the air), the earth's natural field was like 100 times stronger.
:-D
Since then, I've always viewed these claims of EM radiation problems with a skeptical eye. My own suspicions is that this guy had a few too many REMs to the skull from his dental X-Rays and is a candidate for therapy.
Humorless sig goes here.
Careful about the nut allergy thing- peanuts kill more than 100 people/year- more deaths than beestings, shark attacks, snake bites and a lot of other things people worry about. That ain't psychosomatic.
My wife carries an epipen in case she accidentally eats a peanut or peanut product-very small amounts of peanuts cause her throat to swell shut. Accidentally eating peanuts is a whole lot easier than you might suspect- many, many restaurants fry things in peanut oil and don't tell you. If I eat at Chick-fil-A I can't kiss my wife or touch anything around the house until I wash my mouth and hands to get rid of residual oil.
Nut allergies are very, very real
Eric
"Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
Another Wired article linked on that page, Wireless Harmless, More or Less?, talks about research doing just what you have suggested. I didn't search around for the references to the research, but here is what the article said:
A double-blind test, properly run, should be able to eliminate any psychosomatic effects which would bias the testing of "electronic sensitives".
Sapere aude!
This better get modded as Informative......Is this guy aware of large sections of Pennslyvania where no electricity is used? I also know of several places in Indiana that have a large Amish community. Seriously if he is worried about his electo-medical condition why doesn't he move to a remote part of Montana. Errr wait all of Montana is remote.
As my friend Virtros suggests, don't use your mouse in a microwave!
For geek dads: Contraction Timer
After reading all the posts at my threshold, I was appalled to see a significant lack of 'interesting' or 'informative' comments. This is a serious problem for certain people, and just because you don't experience it yourself doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
My grandmother suffers from a psychosomatic disease that makes her very ill when around certain things (i.e. televisions, CRTs, anything with a strong or synthetic odor, etc.). She has been unable for many years now to watch an entire 30 minute TV show without turning the set off during commercials. But like I said, it's purely psychosomatic... in her head.
For example, a few years ago, our family bought her a computer for Christmas. Very slow, very lacking of features, but it allows for email, word processing, and checking of stocks, which is all she needs or ever will need. Problem was, it had a CRT, so she never used it. Ever. So as the LCD screens began coming out, I thought a change of monitors would let her use the computer. Prefacing the purchase of the LCD with information about how the screen doesn't emit the "harmful electrons" that TVs use, she agreed that it might be worth a try. Making sure that a return policy was in effect for the purchase, I bought the LCD and installed it at her house for a test run. She was able to use it without any problems and did not feel sick at all. "Sick," by the way, does not mean feeling a simple headache. We're talking shaking of extremities, loss of strength, vomiting. Even though it has been assumed (and probably proven) that electron emission has no harmful effects, my grandma doesn't care. As long as she thinks it's emitting stuff at her, she will get sick. Tell her it works like a LCD (my explanation to her: thousands of tiny light bulbs arranged in a pattern. just miniature versions of the ones that light your house), and she's completely fine.
So please, take this seriously. Our family has had to deal with it for years now. Say what you will about the author of the article, but people do suffer from the so-called electro-pollution. Even though it may be all in their minds.
IWARS.
People, in general, disappoint me. Politicians even more so.
I know Christy, and I'll promise that it's in her friggen head.
.. "Oh dear! We'd better inform Bubba the police chief right away! Hurry, the bar closes in an hour and we'll want to catch him before he's passed out in his squad car!"
Of course it's in her head. Transmitters placed on roofs don't "agitate students" or "give (people) headaches." And mice certainly do not burn anyone's hands.
This kind of insanity is why I refuse to live in a small town. Too many idiots with crazy, wild beliefs infecting each other's minds. "Did you hear about Ethel? She's really an alien from outer space! I know, I saw her hobbling around on her walker late last night. She opened the garage door with nothing but her eyes, and there was a big silver disc parked in there!"
-Ryan, with the unoriginal sig
This sounds "out there" but I have been working with electronics full time since I was a kid around 77, NOW, I started racing motorcycles around the same time, my hearing SUCKS, I have a very hard time hearing "bass" and my own voice it deep so half the time I cant hear myself talk...
That said, ever since I was a child I could "hear" or maybe its rather "feel" tv's on, monitors or other gadgets are pretty much the same. I have heard so many explanations on this, but a TV, any TV has a whine it sounds like a dog whisle almost. I can tell from outside ahouse if a TV or monitor (not so true with smaller ones) is on or not, My wife loves it as I hate a TV being on if noone is watching it. My mother thinks its freaky, I have been in 7000sq ft houses and asked where a TV was, I said a TV is on in this house somewhere, the said no, Then hour later we go down to the rec room to play pool, lo and behold someone left the TV on,
Circut City/ Sears, what have you drives me nuts.
You just learn to live with it, kinda like some bizzare sixth sense seen on , "Mystery Men" whats his power, he can hear if a TV is on 1/4 mile away !:)
This, its fu**king assinine, I dont go around telling people to turn their TV's off, who the hell are they to tell me I cant do wireless where I want, ITS A FACT OF LIFE !, Maybe next we should blot out the sky so people with light sensitive eyes can roam free without sunscreen and sunglasses.
Isnt wrapping aluminum foil around your head to stop this interference just as eccective ?
Sig went tro...aahemmm.....fishing........
Or just credulous fools of the same variety who believe newspaper horoscopes, consult telephone "psychics", or subscribe to any other of a million pseudo-scientific and superstitious belief systems.
Critical thinking should be a required subject from elementary school on up; Carl Sagan's The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark should be required reading for all high school students.
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
My gut feeling is that these people are a bunch of california nut jobs, but who knows. We used to think that smoking was safe too, you know.
So, have we actually done studies about these people who are supposedly "electrically sensitive?" There was a teacher in the article who said she felt nauseous whenever she was in the school with a wireless transmitter on the roof. If she is so sensitive to radio waves, why don't we put her in a shielded room with high powered radio transmitters, and run a test. We see if she can tell when she is being bombarded by radio waves. It works exactly like a hearing test, which is used to detect tinnitus and hearing loss. Just tell her to raise her hand when the radio waves make her feel sick.
Until we prove that this is an actual condition, why is anyone listening to these nuts?
I can't believe I missed this on the county's website - I believe it explains everything:
Official Mendocino RF Band Plan
The following band plan has been established to assist Mendocino residents in identifying their illness and subsequently locating the offending service provider. Should you require public assistance in notifying a provider to terminate service and initiate financial repairations for the harm caused, please contact our office at (707) 463-4480, or visit our website.
BANDPLAN (Revised January 4, 2002)
BAND: VLF
3-10 Hz - heart disease, cancer, diabetes, strange voices, ghosts, UFOs and other unexplained apparations (see this site for scientific proof and to learn about a special device that will protect your home from these evil VLF rays)
60 Hz - cancer, heart disease, mental illness, colds, flu, hairloss, rashes, psychotic episodes, ebola, gulf war syndrome
BAND: HF
26.965-27.405 MHz - Obesity, intestinal gas, intellectual stunting, unexplained cravings for tractor pulls, women with tatoos and very cheap beer
BAND: VHF/UHF
400-470 MHz - Uncontrollable sexual urges, strange thoughts, dishonesty, attraction to interns, voices, balding, interest in congressional office
800-950 MHz - AIDS, Herpes and other SIDs
BAND: SHF AND ABOVE
2400-2472 MHz - Cancer, blisters, warts, headaches, nausea
5300-5850 MHz - Blindness, body odor, night sweats, rashes
Frequency is important, too. The earth's natural field takes tens (or is it hundreds?) of millions of years to flip around; the power line's field is changing every 1/60 of a second. There's a reason you can wrap an inductor around the line to get juice, but can't do the same around the equator.
Don't get me wrong, I strongly doubt there's any detectable biological effects from power lines, but that's something that would have to be proven by double-blind experiment; your calculations aren't enough.
Sounds like Eddie, the brother-in-law from National Lampoons Christmas Vacation.
"Had a metal plate in my head, but everytime I would fire up the microwave, I'd piss my pants and forget who I was for a half an hour."
is by faking them out. Put them in a room with a fake transmitter and tell them that everytime the green light goes on, they are going to get zapped and you will watch thier reactions. Except, in reality, you actually zap them when the light is OFF. Then after they finish having thier seizures or whatever when the EMF radation is off and they seem to recover when it's on, go publish your report saying that too little radiation is bad for people's health.
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
Okay, I can't resist.
> Microwaves are intentional radiation and are used to TRANSMIT power, not always to simply carry a signal.
Microwaves are EM waves with a certain wavelength, not "intentional radiation" as you've stated. The largest generator of microwave radiation around is the Sun. Microwaves that are generated outside of microwave ovens are used almost exclusively for communications (which is not to say they aren't harmful, but not for the reason you state). Microwaves in ovens are EM waves with the specific wavelength that best transmits energy to water molecules. The microwaves used in tower transmitters is not. Also, microwave transmitters put out microwave beams that don't attenuate very much. It's why they're used; the signal can be thrown farther than a simple broadcast like radio waves because the beam stays cohesive, so most of your power goes down the transmit path, whereas with radio, most of the power goes everywhere but the receiving antenna. It's also why you need line-of-sight to use microwave communications.
The simple fact is that exposure to microwaves in the outside world is not increased to any real degree by the use of microwave transmitters. The exposure you get from standing in range of a microwave tower is smaller by powers of ten than the amount you're getting from the sunlight.
Of course, all of this discussion is offtopic to the original article, as they're not talking about exposure to microwave radiation. The original article is about someone working to eliminate broadcast transmitters to reduce public exposure to radio waves. The whole "electrically sensitive" thing seems to be a misnomer for sensitivity to induced magnetic fields, and I'm not sure why it's part of the discussion, but then sensibility never figured highly in these matters.
Virg
P.S. The law to which you refer has to do with preventing local governments from passing laws that would have excessive externalities. The main reasoning is the threat from a midwest community to prohibit satellite owners from sending down satellite transmissions within its confines. This would have precluded any satellite transmissions to anywhere in North America, as most satellites use a footprint of that size to transmit. And before you get all bent about how that exposes you to radiation, keep in mind that you need a concentrator (a dish) just to get enough signal to detect.
Fortunately, this is no longer the case. However, when he had the pacemaker put in, we were given a set of rules regarding things he could and could not do, among these were recomendations that he not allow himself get too near to wireless devices. This is not to say no wireless networks in the house at all - but to simply not place himself in a manner where he was extremely close to such a thing. (They actually choose the side of your body to place the PaceMaker, based on your dominant hand - such that you can hold a cell phone in your other hand, having little impact on the pacemaker itself, as well as to reduce the strain on the device during movement.)
Newer devices are even less restricted - and as time goes on, I imagine many of the restrictions above will be reduced or eliminated. (Maybe future versions will actually talk to wireless networks.. hehe.) In any event, this was to simply answer your question about whether or not there were actually people that could be considered sensitive to RF. I can't imagine anybody requiring the extreme that was mentioned in this article.
------ 24.5% slashdot pure
Not this guy isn't a kook, but this argument has a problem. People tend to be 'sensitive' to ionizing radiation in that it affects them (radiation poisoning for nontrivial exposures) but they can't tell that they're being exposed until well past the danger point.. So people in places where there might possibly be accidental exposure get to carry some kind of radiation sensor around with them.
I don't subscribe to RMS's GNUtopian vision.
Actually, it works only for you. Try this.
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
Well, of course "Wired" would run this story! "Wireless" is the LAST thing that the want!
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
No, he's a self important prick. Mendocino has alot of them. I'm all excited because this is the first time I've seen one in anything as mainstream as Wired and slashdot, though.
A few years ago my little brother got a pacemaker. While they are not as restricted as the once where, in terms of avoiding certain things, the manufacturers/doctors still recommend avoiding a few things.
One such thing is that while using a cellphone, it should be used on the the side of the head furthest away from the pacemaker. They also recommended avoiding close contact with wireless devices near the area of the PM. - Nothing to the extreme requiring someone to move out to a town far away w/o anything.
More likely, the hospitals are concerned with monitoring equipment or ppl with OLD pacemakers. I get the impression that they only warn off certain activities with the new more advanced ones as insurance.
------ 24.5% slashdot pure
Only in California. Articles like these make me feel sorry for the poor bastards that have to live in the same state as these people. And they vote, too.
Seriously, if they're so electrically sensitive, why haven't they put up a giant umbrella to blot out the biggest E-M noisemaker in the solar system (more commonly known as "the sun")? Or why haven't they moved closer to the equator to make sure they're as far away from the aurora borealis as possible?
I'm willing to bet that, within five years of the first viable fusion reactor going on-line, somebody in California will have neutrino-related health problems. And THEN where will they move?
> Please, you idiots making fun of these people, you are true idiots and it is becouse you are not complaining on the companies instead. They should create products not transmitting harmful radiation. They should find alternative methods of doing same things that doesnt HARM humans.
There are some real problems with this. Creating products that don't create harmful radiation (based on this fellow's definition of "dangerous") would require them to build devices that don't use electricity, since he's complaining about any radiant EM field, and these fields are induced by electric current. Needless to say, few people (in the modern world, anyway) are willing to give up the use of electricity to protect themselves from EM fields.
> And becouse, you are the #1 on the list to become electricsensitive. And many of you are that already Your ears getting hot? It feels like sand in your eyes? Dry skin? And many more things that are signs of electricsensitivity.
The problem here is that of all of the sysmptoms listed, none of them (and no combination of them) seems exclusive to the condition. Moreover, the only backing information cited was a vague reference to a Swedish study, and the facts from the only study data the Swedes ever published stated that people who claimed to be electrically sensitive could not detect and were not demonstrably affected by EM fields in double blind tests. This would tend to refute Mr. Firstenburg's claims, but strangely the web site makes no mention of the results, only the study. This leads me to believe that more proof is needed about the causal link of bad health and EM exposure before it makes sense to start in on lifestyle changes.
Virg
Electrical sensitivity is not recognized by the U.S. medical establishment, and Firstenberg refused to disclose his diagnosis, which allows him to collect disability income.
...bevy of devices to detect radio frequencies, including a meter that gauges electrical, magnetic and microwave fields." Probably not. I bet he rides a bike, and his next "illness" will be an allergy to gas fumes.
For cryin' out f*ckin' loud! I'm paying tax money for this flake to sit at home on his ass and fire up?
These people better hope there's never a thunderstorm nearby. Do you know how much RF noise fills the air during even a modest storm? It'll kill 'em all. Or maybe not. Because there's NOTHING WRONG WITH THEM! They just want to live in some hippie commune.
What a great example of mass hysteria. Ultra-liberals have moved from pushing smokers around to picking new targets.
I wonder if Firstenberg owns an SUV to haul his "
Anyone ever carefully read the EULA for Java? You aren't allowed to use Java to control pacemakers or nuclear facilities.
I don't know why, but I just found that hilarious.
I know what you mean about pacemakers. They always put those signs on the scanners at libraries that check to see if you're taking a book without checking it out warning that they might interfere with pacemakers. I always wondered how they decided to install them.
"We have this new device that prevents people from stealing our books."
"Great, lets install it."
"There's one catch, it kills old people."
"Oh who the hell cares about that? Install the damn thing. And make sure this old person killing device runs on Java."
> you really think this huge ammount of wave shit waving through us constantly has no effect on you?
I do think it has an effect on me. However, the question is whether all of the unnaturally occurring radiation has any different or more deleterious effect on me than all of the naturally occurring wave shit waving through me.
Virg
- My computer monitor gives me eyestrain.
- Microwaved convenience food makes me nauseous.
- Fluorescent lighting produces a humming sound in my ears.
- Cable television makes my brain hurt.
My current girlfriend is the first person I've met with the same level of sensitivity, but beyond the obviously broken tubes that anyone can hear whine, it really isn't a big deal. Just turn on some music to drown it out
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
Mendocino, the entire country, is an object lesson for every Californian. Humbolt the city, and the rest of the country, was once staunchly conservative with a thriving economy in lumber. Than Cal State Humbolt set up shop. Thousands of students with empty heads showed up. Ivory tower professors showed up to fill their heads with ivory tower thoughts. Then the students started voting. Humbolt became a liberal mecca. The cancer spread throughout the county. Now Humbolt's economy is based on lawsuits and welfare checks.
Don't let this happen to your community. It happened to Santa Cruz. It happened to La Jolla. It happened even to Berkeley and Palo Alto, both conservative havens in the liberal bay area...until the voting age was lowered to toddlerhood. It's going to happen to Merced with the new UC. The only place this hasn't happened is when the university is in a big city. The old saying goes "if you're not liberal at 18 you have no heart, if you're not conservative at 68 you have no brain." Well, move a major university to a small town and you suddenly get more heart than brains.
I'm sure the guy in this story has his heart in the right place, but he certainly has no brain!
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
Maybe that's why it doesn't bother you?
This next song is very sad. Please clap along. -- Robin Zander
I think this action is going make it comedy fodder for Rush Limbaugh and other conservative hosts, sad to say.
It just proves that some Californians live up to the pejorative moniker of Land of Fruits and Nuts. They should be more concerned about things like low altitude air pollution.
I had the fun experience of helping a friend set up his ISP's wireless network and on top of the tallest building in town is located an 800 MHz cell site. When working up there in proximity to the cell site (ie 15-25 feet) I could definately feel something odd, but when I went back downstairs I was fine and I have no after effects.
Exposure to high-intensity RF can do funny things to you, just look at chicken in the microwave, but the regular stuff we all live in won't hurt, much. ;)
As a side note there was a sign up there that said something to the effect of, "WARNING: This area exceeds FCC limits for human exposure to RF."
Stories like this remind me of when my mother's friend's son got a cable modem in his room a few years ago, and suddenly was unable to get up at any reasonable time in the morning to go to school. Since they thought I was a computer expert, I was quizzed if the cable modem could be emitting "bad ions" that were damaging his health. I didn't have the heart to say that it wasn't bad ions, just staying up late downloading porn and playing Quake that was the problem.
Two things. First, some people use their PDA to read (get an article or book on the PDA, then head for the "reading" room). Second, there's no need for an apostrophe after PDA. "PDAs" works.
Virg
It's people like this that define the phrase junk science. (shaking head!)
Personally, if electricity were causing cancer and other dehabilitating conditions, they would have found out like by 1910, twenty years after electric power generation and power transmission by overhead wires became common in the northeastern USA.
Another good example is the Three Mile Island accident in 1979. The radioactive release on a per person basis near that plant is the equivalent of getting radiation at altitude from a New York City to Los Angeles jet flight of 5.5 hours.
Now you know why I dislike the majority of the environmental movement--they don't bother to test their theories before making their conclusions at times.
You are dealing with a "Part 15" device - aka, unlicensed. Part 15 devices use PARTS of the RF spectrum as secondary users - They have the resposability not to interfere with the licensed PRIMARY users of that part of the spectrum, and it's THEIR problem if they receice interference
-- 73 de KG2V For the Children - RKBA! "You are what you do when it counts" - the Masso
I totally agree with you. I just couldn't find a way to fit in a good James Randi rant...
She sat at the window watching the evening invade the avenue.
Interesting turn of phrase, that. The medical term for it is "good high-range hearing" and I understand, as I'm also able to pick up the high-pitched sound given off by old picture tubes. The difference between this and the statement of electric sensitivity is that hearing high-pitched sounds can be proven (and has been) with a simple microphone, speaker and oscilloscope.
Virg
Telecommunication and television satellites ALL paint all of the continental US with microwaves, and many of the DTH satellites are 120 watts. Regardless, there are 30+ satellites all painting the us with a minimum of 40 watts of microwave energy each. This town is no exception.
Desperation is a stinky cologne
Listen, no doubt there is some tap water that's crappy. I used to live near Woburn, MA (A Civil Action). The study I was referring to was when they put tap water in cups labeled "bottled water" (like Dasani or something) and "tap water". Then the subjects were asked for a taste comparison between the two. Lo and behold, people thought the "bottled water" tasted better. It's a well-known psychological phenomenon.
She sat at the window watching the evening invade the avenue.
When the hell did periods disappear from acronyms? I VERY clearly remember being taught in elementary school that acronyms use the first letter from each word, capitalized, and followed by a period. Like N.A.S.A. or A.I. Was I hallucinating all of fourth grade? Surely I didn't start that young.
When did the nation vote to remove periods? When was this on the nightly news? PDAs CANNOT work by the rules as I know them. Personal Digital Assistants would just be P.D.A. Making it indistinguishable from Personal Digital Assistant, P.D.A. N.A.S.A.s makes no sense. Grammar nazis, what the hell are the rules for capitalizing and pluralizing acronyms?
There are some pretty big holes in this chart.
Nothing mentioned between 60 Hz and 27 MHz, so all those quacks on the AM band (535 kHz - 1605 kHz) are still able to talk to their gullible audiences about E-M sensitivity.
Also conveniently lacking are all your VHF TV channels. That gap between 27 MHz and 400 MHz is more than big enough for all channels between 2 and 13 (54 MHz - 88 MHz for channels 2 through 6, and 174 MHz - 215 MHz for 7 through 13). You may be sensitive to other parts of the spectrum, but at least you can still catch your Must See TV with no risk of odd sexual urges!
FM radio is also OK (88 MHz to 108 MHz), so NPR is still good for me. Thank heaven for little favors...
But some of you Dawson's Creek fanatics may be out of luck. The UHF TV channels are mostly harmless (470 MHz - 608 MHz for channels 14 to 36, 614 MHz - 806 MHz for 38 to 69), but as we can see, channel 69 may cause AIDS. Check your local listings!
New customers of satellite radio should be safe (they tend to sit in the S-band, between 2.31 GHz and 2.36 GHz, just under the frequencies for blisters and warts).
Unfortunately for Cox, Comcast and other cable companies is the way they get their feeds on the C-band (3.6 GHz to 7.025 GHz) Proof positive that too much late-night Cinemax can make you go blind!
Even worse for them, their competitors in the digital satellite market are sitting pretty in the ku-band (10.7 GHz - 14.5 GHz). Too energetic for any problems listed here.
On a slightly more serious note, I'm surprised they didn't mention the serious (proven) health risks of more energetic frequencies, like the severe burns that can be caused by EM waves in the 350 THz - 400 THz range, or the relation between skin cancer and frequencies over 750 THz. Hell, if you have too much of anything between 400 THz and 750 THz, you might go blind!
This guy is quoted in the article as saying he can't even hold his computer mouse anymore without pain.. whats he think is happening to him? magical ray eminating from the mouse are microwaving his hand.. out of all the computer equipment most people use, surely the mouse is the least dangerous..
Its like the one guy in the article said.. "you can't argue with zealots"
It disturbs me that this crazy person can collect disability for the fact that he thinks electronics harm him..
The Onion describes new technology that is bound to cure electrical sensitivity. Approved for your use by men in very white coats.
Why am I tempted to move to Mendocino and start a HAM radio hobby?
if ($it != $onething) {$it = $another;}
That's Mendocino. The whole thing. It's a flyspeck. If you want to buy anything useful, like groceries for example, you go to Fort Bragg, which is about 10 minutes north.
The real irony, I think, is that a tower placed in Caspar (an even smaller town that sits between Mendocino and Fort Bragg, consisting of a bar with a kitchen, a small hotel, and a small recording studio) would probably serve all the wireless needs of anyone in Mendocino just fine.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
In a related anecdote, some guy (IIRC in the UK) was busted for stealing power from the power company. He did this buy winding a large quantity of copper coil around his garage, which was situated underneith a high voltage line. The garage full of coil was sufficient to induce enough power to run his house. Unfortunately, I can't find a link to the story.
Caveat: I still think the people trying to shut down the school radio are nuts. I just wanted to point out that short-range EM from high voltage lines is a much different situation than EM from cell towers.
Crispin
----
Crispin Cowan, Ph.D.
Chief Scientist, WireX Communications, Inc.
Immunix: Security Hardened Linux Distribution
Available for purchase
To play the devil's advocate for a moment...
I don't think they think it's possible to block out all stray radiation, just like it's not possible to avoid all injury in football. They're just putting on some pads.
Of course, none of them will be able to read this, so I'm burning karma for nothing. Oh well.
If you fall off a building, go real limp, because maybe you'll look like a dummy and people will be like hey, free dummy
The sad thing is that people feel wireless and fast Internet access are essential for a good economy. If you take one of the most beautiful places on earth and give it a "healthy economy," that means extreme land development and infrastructure that ruins everything about the place that made people want to live there in the first place. Why is it "unhealthy" to have an economy that is not growing, that merely sustains itself?
While I agree the guy is, um, strange ... its not the presence of a EM field thats dangerous ... its more like being exposed to changes in flux thats a problem ... Either by moving *your* body through the field, or the field changing somehow, IE alternatic current :)
... the reason the earths field dosen't bother is us, because relative to us it is stationary.
You have to recall the universe is all about motion
Free Techno/Jazz/DNB/MI Music by guys obsessed with monkeys!
There already exists a "Radio Free Zone" in the United States that is far more free of stray electromagnetic fields than Mendocino could ever hope to be. It is a very large area around the Greenbank Radio Telescope facility (and some military facilities) in West Virginia called the National Radio Quiet Zone.
s at /nrqz.html
If these kooks really want to be "free" from the EM spectrum then they should stop trying to take over the politics of Mendocino and force the locals to give up their technology so these "sensitives" can all move there. Instead they should just move to the 13,000 square miles of land already covered by the National Radio Quiet Zone. That way the people of Mendocino can enjoy their wireless technology and cell phones and the "sensitives" can live as sheltered an existence as they could ever hope to have.
http://astrosun.tn.cornell.edu/faculty/haynes/a
Acronyms were originally under strict rules for use. However, as of 1991 (by my best recollection, at least) the Chicago Manual of Style allowed for acronyms to be built with or without periods. Capital letters are still a requirement, and I don't recall seeing any mention allowing apostrophes to pluralize. Anyone have a recent copy of the big orange that can check?
Virg
P.S. Since when have changes to accepted editorial style been news? I figure that if the nightly news people cared enough about style changes to report on them, they might consider using editorial style guidelines once in a while as well.
The crusade of the good people of Mendocino, CA has inspired me to make an effort to help aliviate the pain and suffering of myself and many others. I am photosensitive, meaning my eyes burn if I don't wear sunglasses or tinted lenses outdoors on a sunny day. I am told that many other people, even a few of my friends, are also affected by this horrible affliction. This is why I am taking advantage of this thread to announce my plans to invade a small town with photosensitive people (Lorne NB looks promising right now) and block out the sun and all other forms of light.
Maybe certain frequencies cause chemical changes in these people's bodies, who knows how -- a broken bond, an inactive gene that becomes active, a protein is somehow modified, whatever. Over time, these people develop allergic sensitivities to these mutated biochemicals (the same way a worker in a perfume factory might develop a sensitivity over the years).
Then, whenever they are exposed to the right frequency radiation, and these chemicals start to get produced, they have an allergic reaction.
Could it be possible? I'm not a chemist, so could somebody comment on it?
Funny that you mention double-blind tests. According to the article, Firstenburg rambles around with a carload of equipment to detect the things that are causing him such pain and discomfort. You'd think he wouldn't need elaborate sensors to detect that he has a headache. You don't see people with carpal tunnel problems checking levels taped to their forearms before deciding their wrists hurt.
Expanding a vast wasteland since 1996.
I'd like to see how these people react in a thunderstorm. If they're really as bothered by radio waves as they say, their heads should explode. More likely they don't even react.
I used to think the opposite of progress was Congress, but progressive's pretty near opposite as well.
Infrasound, sounds below the normal range of human hearing, present a small, but real threat many people. Infrasound can greatly effect one's mood and health.
Low frequency sounds can travel thousands of miles and is used for military communications. In some areas, such infrasounds can be EXTREMELY LOUD...some sources of very intense infrasound include manufacturing, some vehicles, long-range military transmission equipment, and of course various natural sources including thunderstorms, earthquakes and volcanoes - and according to current theory, infrasound partly explains the bizarre behavior of some animals before an earthquake, etc.
EMFs are everywhere and if the people in the article really are sensitive to them, then how can they have electricity in their house or use the telephone?? Electrical systems produce a large amount of EMFs and thus I would assume these folks would all live in candle-lit houses or at minimum live in houses with highly shielded electrical systems costing tens of thousands...but instead it appears they live in ordinary homes.
Anyways, in my view, these folks ought to worry more about infrasound than EMFs.
Let me go to that town, i will bring a microwave, and strap someones head in it... then we'll see if emf is dangerous to health...
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
I see this whole thing as about science getting a bad reputation (often due to misinformation eg. "smoking won't kill you", or drastic and incorrect simplification by elements of the media), and being opposed at every turn by the superstitious.
I would not live under an 11kV power line, but wouln't mind living fifty metres away, because I know that the intensity of the electric field drops away rapidly with distance. Some people would object to it being within sight. A lot of people fall into the trap of sorting things into "bad" and "good", without remembering that something as simple as fire can be both, depending on where it is.
It's not just the strength of the field that matters (directly), it's the delta in field strength between the ends of the bulb.
At the same field strength, the larger source is further away and the field delta is lower.
Thus, the Earth's EM field could be vastly stronger, but still not cause a bulb to glow as brightly as a power line. (Unless the bulb stretched from here to the moon...)
However, the human body is likely affected in somewhat the same way as a bulb, so it's not totally silly to think that EM from a power line might cause some weird effects.
The people advocating this would get a lot farther if they didn't seem to be crystal-healing, acupuncture using, ginko-biloba eating freaks without a clue about the scientific method (or any discoveries since the 1920s for that matter.) But try to bring up double-blind studies with them and you'll get a rant about the ego of western science, etc, etc...
Since you claim to be a Ph.D...
If the Earth's magnetic field alternated its polarity 60 times a second, do you think ALL of the flourescent lighting in the world would glow?
From what I understand, from an article in Discover magazine years back (I know... biased and questionable... but...) which discussed magnetic fields around high-voltage power lines, and also electric blankets, the chief problem is the frequency of the field in question. The article states that the danger from a D.C. current is negligable no matter the voltage, but that 60 (and 50) hz A.C. can cause damage, in theory.
Me personally, I like electricity. A.C., D.C.... doesn't matter, just as long as my gadgets run.
Oh, and as far as I am concerned, it's not theft of service to tap inductively into high voltage lines that run over your property... It should be considered payment for the risk of cancer that some people think is there.
"Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
IMHO this is stupid. If the power radiates through my property, I should be able to use it. Much the same as the descrambler issue (pre DMCA) of having the right to view anything someone broadcast to you, regardless of their desires.
Does this use of inductive coils somehow reduce the available power at the other end of the wire, or is it just using "waste" energy and not affecting anything?
I can always tell when a new apartment I go to has wireless ethernet ;-(),
Then God help you if you ever come within 100 feet of a working microwave oven. At that distance, their emissions are still 10-20X as powerful as an 802.11 card at 6 feet.
I can 'see' more radiation from my neighbor's microwave oven on a 2.4 GHz spectrum analyzer than I get from the Orinoco card in the PC that sits next to the analyzer on my workbench.
Seriously... get help. Even though the supposed cause of your suffering is purely imaginary, your symptoms themselves may not be.
Dahlmann tightly grips the knife, which he may have no idea how to use, and steps out into the plain.
Alright, these people in Medocino are plainly deluded - but a claim there's never been any hard evidence that low intensity radio waves harm anyone skips an important issue - how could there be? We've been saturated in them for the last 50 or so years and by the time anyone thought of asking what the long term effects of this might be it was too late - you can't have a study like this without a control group and no control group is possible. And putting people in a radio free room and seeing if they can predict bursts of energy aimed at them only proves that people can't decect bursts of energy aimed at them. It does nothing to prove or disprove what the long term psychological or physical effects may or may not be.
Let's look at some other things that have happened for the last 100 years. There are increased rates of depression, autism, schizophrenia, cancer and birth defects. The population of songbirds and amphibians has decreased remarkably. Violence has increased and so has fear. Is all of that due to radio waves? I really doubt it - one can find a lot of alternate explanations. Could some of it be due to the increase in radio waves?
How could we possibly know? There are too many variables between the world of 100 years ago and now to say. If there is any place where one can find a group of people to study who've lived a modern lifestyle and avoided radio wave effects, (if any), I don't know about it. In short, this may be an issue that we are incapable of understanding scientifically with the tools we currently have. But just because we don't understand it doesn't mean it can't exist or can't affect us.
Where does that leave us? Pretty much in the dark on this issue. We can prove or disprove effects of higher levels of this radiation, but the long term effects of lower levels are unknown. Forget about the people with their tinfoil hats in Medocino; there are valid reasons to investigate this issue, if we can find a way to do so. Scoffing at the people with extreme opinions is not going to resolve the question. And part of having an a scientific mindset is recognizing a good question when one sees one, not just attributing the issue to hysteria or paranoia.
For the record, I don't believe I have any conditions caused by radio wave exposure, and don't have an informed opinion on what the effects of long term radiation might be. Neither, as far as I know, does anyone else. Neither the proposition "radio waves are doing things to us" or "radio waves aren't doing thing to us" are provable. A true skeptic has to treat both as dubious statements. I'm a little disappointed that no one replying to this article has taken this point of view.
Does this use of inductive coils somehow reduce the available power at the other end of the wire, or is it just using "waste" energy and not affecting anything?
The inductive coils certainly will deplete the power from the power lines. In fact, those high voltage power lines are not even attached to anything directly at the near end, but run through a transformer, which uses two coils of wire to induce a lower voltage after the transformer.
They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security
...That's the only place these kooks are going to get any relief. Oh wait, the earth itself generates a magnetic field. Maybe these folks are the secret grandchildren of Molemen, surfacing once to take a bride with a human woman, impregnate her, then descend into the caves again.
Well, it's possible. If one completely insane guy can convince a town to cut off radio communications, anything is possible.
To translate for the irony deprived ... Dow Corning have now gone out of the silicon breast business because the expense of paying for their customers health bills and there is a demonstrably higher incidence of childhood leukemeas in children living near high power lines.
HOWEVER, this does not prove that microwaves are dangerous ... they might only possibly be dangerous.
Better to be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident a security. --Edmund Burke
What you entirely neglect to consider are the dangers inherent to your proposed therapy. Why, millions of people may have already died from dihydrogen monoxide poisoning!!
More information can be found at http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
My house was built in 1956, with that newfangled prefab sheet plaster -- its backing is 0.5" gauge expanded metal mesh, grounded willy-nilly where it touches the electrical outlet boxes (since they use the metal outlet box, not a 3rd wire, as their ground point). Most radios, and my newer TV, get absolutely ZERO reception indoors.
:)
(An old hi-fi radio and an old TV both have decent reception in here. Must be some defect in my chicken wire.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
People on Slashdot are victims.
You were modded down to 'troll' for giving your honest opinion in a free debate zone. It's more than just a bad mod; it's the result of culture-wide thought conditioning. (I'd call it mind-control, but too many idiots here would assume that I meant short term, electrode in the neck bullshit. Mind control happens over the long term.)
The fact is, Slashdotters are part of the geek-elite: tech-geeks are prime targets because even though they are only pawns they remain in many ways the engineers and keepers of today's accepted reality. We make the machines go; and the nature of the machines determines our level of enslavement.
As such, you can always count on the brain-mush factor in people. Slashdot is living proof. Tell them it's not 'cool' to believe in Cold Fusion, or what have you, and the low-egos around here will drop the idea like a hot rock in order to jump back into the safety of popular concensus and the modified truths sold to them since birth. --Why do you think we were fed so much 'science' learning channel crap when we were kids? --I'll tell you why: It's because kids are easy to program. Most of the people here will argue till they're blue in the face to defend their childhood conditioning, which makes them no better than kids brought up in hard-core Christian communities. They insist that they choose through free will, but the truth is they've been brainwashed since birth.
-Fantastic Lad
You say: "his credentials are dubious at best." Really? The man has written a book, how many books have you written? I'm much more likely to believe someone who has gone to all the trouble to research and write a book about something, than someone who hasn't.
David Icke has had several books published, but this doesn't disguise the fact that he is still a barking mad loon!
Or do you believe him too?
"Information wants to be paid"
This article more or less supports my point, actually. Not very strongly, but it leans heavily in that direction.
/Brian
Maybe this is a reason to pursue development of an all-optical solar-powered computer.
If the amount of lead that leached into the water were at least equal to the amount that a kid gets eating paint flakes, then I'd say there's the potential for damage. I have no physical measurements on either of these. But I'd imagine it would take a while for enough oxides to cover the inside of the pipes to prevent most leaching.
L. Ron Hubbard has written a book too... :)
Nah...I was careful to leave out any disparaging remarks...unless they want to read something into the smiley....
Standing applause!!!!
Wish I could mod in a discussion I was participating in!!!
Very nice.