Slashdot Mirror
Slippery Slime Developed to Control Crowds
powlow writes "Southwest Research Institute (press release )developed a non-hazardous chemical spray system that spreads a highly slippery, viscous gel (which the lab designated a "mobility denial system" and dubbed "banana peel
in a can") to inhibit the movement of individuals or vehicles on treated surfaces. Marines Corps believes it can be used for crowd control. (Defense Technical Information Center's PDF Report) In tests, volunteers attempted in vain to walk across a lawn sprayed
with the slime, and in fact, had they not been safety-harnessed during the tests, many would have broken bones."
So how is this "non-hazardous"? Are they going to hand out safety harnesses to crowds before they get sprayed with slime?
"Backups are for wimps. Real men upload their data to an FTP site and have everyone else mirror it." -- Linus Torvalds
I wonder if they can't just skate across it. I expect they'll just start to have a different type of shoe to deal with the problem soon (at least the professional protestors). What do the Hurling people wear? Nike Glide ;-)
Ralf
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.
-Bertrand Russel
Is there something I'm missing?
The more you know, the less you understand.
They also field-tested this at Mardi Gras this year in New Orleans. Unfortunately, the crowds mistook it for a personal lubricant and 47 people ended up hospitalized for exhaustion.
Are they seriously pushing this as a crowd control product? I mean, tear gas is bad and not used often, but after a few hours, you're all back to normal. What's going to happen to a city that uses this on demostrators, many of whom will end up in the hospital with big doctor's bills. Would those demostrators not have a legitamit case against the city/county/state/fed goven't that did that?
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
- Rubber Bullets / Bean Bag Rounds (can cause permanent damage, although if used properly rarely do)
- "Pepperball"-type products. Fabrique Nationale has a new one on the way that is a purpose-built CO2 launcher (not a paintball gun) that shoots chemical mace, a hard-nosed projectile, and my personal favorite, a "malodorant" that causes the target to puke himself into giving up
On the mass-of-people front, there isn't much to do besides tear gas grenades, or making an example out of some with the above options. This gel could prove to be very useful, especially as a deterrent BEFORE riot-type activities start (anyone for slicking down the sidewalk in front of the WTO meeting?) A few skinned knees are MUCH more desirable than broken teeth cause some cop got jostled when he fired the rubber baton launcher.This is fine as long as "riot police" get the "sensitivity training". If it won't kill, it is more often used. Just look at the Seattle protests of over zealous used of tear gas and pepper spray. Yes, rioters were gased, but there is video of sit in protestors being gassed, hit with batons, etc.
If it's not deadly, its more okay to use...Now this, people can break bones...great....
Burn Hollywood Burn
Non-lethal, less than lethal, etc, all of these technologies lend themselves to abuse of law enforcement types. Civil disobediance will be curtailed by uses of this type of thing?
"What? Dr. King? You're planning to march where? You and those nigger troublemakers can get the hell out of Selma. You can walk back to the bus, because you aren't going to make it into town. You'll break every fibula in the group if you walk past this slippery line."
Because it's non lethal. Why would anyone make a big deal about it?
If it's not serious enough for them to use force, that means that the event isn't serious.
Though slippery slime is not as bad as some of the other so-called "non lethal" weapons being developed out there, it's still in violation of the Chemical Weapons Convention, which bans chemical agents producing temporary incapacitation.
Though "chemical warfare" readily brings WWI chlorine-gas warfare to mind, agents don't simply have to asphyxiate or burn opponents to death to qualify as inhumane. One may wonder whether there is such a thing as humane war, but it is certainly more fair to attack healthy and active combattants than it is to attack incapacitated ones. And don't believe for a second that the Pentagon is interested in this stuff just for non-combat activities.
Besides, one has to wonder how good this stuff can be at crowd control anyway. Immobilizing foam has its uses, because it can transform a chaotic situation into one where the actors -- rioters, for example -- can no longer continue their disturbances. It hardly seems prudent, however, to create a situation where everyone is sliding all over the place.
I'm sure a crowd of people slipping around is a very amusing sight, but what happens if someone gets seriously injured? How would the ambulance crew get to them without being injured themselves?
My life is one big siesta in which I'm dreaming I wished my life was one big siesta.
many times a crowd control means dispersing the crowd, hence the application of tear gas and many other methods. Putting this slimy thing will just immobilize the crowd, and they'll just, stay there?
Another issue being, how can the person who apply this stuff not affected it? Police officers can wear a mask while using tear gas, I wonder if there's any way to avoid it. Maybe a spike show, like those a spinter wear to run in grass would do. Demonstrators and rioters would probably come prepared if it's just as simple as wearing a different type of shoes.
Having said that, I guess this material is probably going to be useful in some other industrial applications. It's interesting nonetheless.
geek page at KY speaks
"It's Slime Time"
C-X C-S
I'm all for non-lethal supression of demonstrations when they create a public nuisance without cause. But what happens when the demonstrators are right? Will non-lethal slime, sound waves etc. increase the likelyhood of police supression?
... etc.
No suffragette movement? No civil-rights movement?
e4 e5
How could a crowd disperse if they were unable to move across slippery ground, or if they were themselves covered in slippery goo? Sounds like it would make it more difficult to disperse a crowd than, say, tear gas.
Since when was war fair? If slippery-slime will help bring home more troops, slime away. It's pretty easy for you to sign on to 'fair war' when your sitting behind your computer under the delusion that you will never be called out. I sure as hell bet your attutude would change if your where the one of the front line.
There was a similar agent called "Instant Banana Peel" developed for riot control in the early '70s. Perhaps this stuff is more slippery, I don't know, but it is hardly news.
Dog is my co-pilot.
Cop1: "EVERYONE DISPERSE! THIS IS YOUR FINAL WARNING!"
...
Cop2: "They aren't moving, slime em."
SPLOTCH!
Cop1: "NOW EVERYONE DISPERSE!"
Hippie: "Ok, ok, we're moving... um, wait a second, we CAN'T MOVE!"
Cop1: "Bill, you go out there and drag a few out."
Cop2: "You got it Bob..."
(Bill slips on the slime halfway down the street)
Cop1: "Damn... Hey, Charlie, get you but out there and help Bill!"
... hours pass
Cop1: "Steve, you go and try and help Jim help Greg help Monica help Charlie help Bill."
Cop7: "Sure thing boss!"
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
Being slimed is inhumane but rubber bullets are not? And since you are so anti-chemical weapons, maybe you should've read your own link where it refers only to chemical weapon use in warfare. Being slimed refers to riot control which is approved given proper listing of chemicals used. In fact do you understand all implications of the treaty. Why isn't dihydrogen monoxide considered a chemical weapon? Discount the fact that you're wrong about slime, a blast of good old dihydrogen monoxide has temporarily incapacitated many a charging rioter. It has been used for crowd/riot control for ages. Under your (wrong) interpretation that would be illegal under the Chemical Weapons Convention.
..." With slime, which chemical action on which life process causes temporary incapacitation?
From YOUR link:
1. "Chemical Weapons" means the following, together or separately:
(a) Toxic chemicals and their precursors, except where intended for purposes not prohibited under this Convention, as long as the types and quantities are consistent with such purposes;
(b) Munitions and devices, specifically designed to cause death or other harm through the toxic properties of those toxic chemicals specified in subparagraph (a), which would be released as a
result of the employment of such munitions and devices;
(c) Any equipment specifically designed for use directly in connection with the employment of munitions and devices specified in subparagraph (b).
2. "Toxic Chemical" means:
Any chemical which through its chemical action on life processes can cause death, temporary incapacitation or permanent harm to humans or animals. This includes all such chemicals, regardless
of their origin or of their method of production, and regardless of whether they are produced in facilities, in munitions or elsewhere.
(For the purpose of implementing this Convention, toxic chemicals which have been identified for the application of verification measures are listed in Schedules contained in the Annex on
Chemicals.)
From YOUR link:
5. Each State Party undertakes not to use riot control agents as a method of warfare.
From YOUR link:
7. "Riot Control Agent" means:
Any chemical not listed in a Schedule, which can produce rapidly in humans sensory irritation or disabling physical effects which disappear within a short time following termination of exposure.
From YOUR link:
9. "Purposes Not Prohibited Under this Convention" means:
(d) Law enforcement including domestic riot control purposes.
As for combat uses... if they can hit an adversary with foam or slime, why can't they equally easily hit them with a bullet or a bomb?
I just thought you might want to reread this sentence on the definition of a toxic chemical: "Any chemical which through its chemical action on life processes can cause
If you say it's a physical effect causing the normal life process of walking to result in incapacitation, why are lead bullets not considered chemical weapons? I'd say a bullet piercing flesh is a very chemical action. Any good chemist could explain to you the atomic chemistry of why the lead bullet traveling at considerable speed can pierce a less rigid entity such as a human's skin and internal organs.
Cross 'slime skating' with the odour weapon just developed and civil disobedience is over. The new and improved 'Who me?' smell bomb (developed in WWII) is an admixture of burning flesh (or putrid), food gone bad and human waste. There's *so* much to be said for the sedentary, bubble boy existence of a geek.
heuristic algorithm seeks stochastic relationship
Especially if they're those 'anti-globalisation' protesters (whatever that means). For people supposedly fighting to ensure that 'the little guy. gets treated fairly they sure do love trashing the shops owned by small family businesses.
nice troll!
Mr and Mrs McDonald's (and their blind dog poopy) and their good friends, the Starbucks, surely appreciate you compassion.
There are four occurances of the word (or derivations) of incapacitate. Three of those occurances occur in the schedule guidelines and are the phrase "incapacitating toxicity." The other occurence is "incapacitation," and it is further restricted by the modifying phrase "chemical action on life process." The slime is clearly not toxic nor does it effect a life process.
Also look to Article II.9.d where it clearly states that "[a purpose] not prohibited under this convention" is "law enforcement including domestic riot control."
Whoa! I see a future for a new, even more violent version of Twister. :-)
Right -- all the peaceful people will slide around helplessly, while the rioters will wear metal-spiked soccer shoes and escape unscathed.
Great idea, folks. Reallygreat. :-(
Another scenario: lubricant sprayed, protestor slips trying to throw molatov, fire spreads and people try and get away but...
Phillip.
Property for sale in Nice, France
If the police have non lethal weapons, it will simply encourage them to use them.
Example. In London the other day a domestic was ended by the police shooting the bloke with one of these anti-riot guns. It may well have been warranted but I think the precendent is dangerous.
I forsee the use of stun guns for giving a bit of lip back to officers. Peacefull protests will be broken up with whichever weapon they have in their arsenal.
Deleted
Technology has consequences, and sometimes those consequences are awful. Take, for example, recent engineering advances in weapons design. It used to be that because of how much a gun weighed and how much kick it gave when you fired it, you probably had to be at least a teenager to use it. U.S. gun manufacturers saw a market opportunity, so they told their engineers to design guns that were simpler to maintain, less mass, and less kick. Engineers succeeded, through their earnest ingenuity and resourcefulness. And now the streets of Sierra Leone are full of 8-year-old children who have been pulled away from their families and forcefully recruited into fighting a civil war. Hooray for science!
I don't mean to say we should go back to living in caves, or to say that those engineers were evil people. But we shouldn't blindly accept everything in the name of progress. An advanced way of killing or incapacitating another human being doesn't seem like progress to me.
Do domain names matter?
I'd imagine golf cleats, soccer shoes, or strap-on crampons would be effective. So would a few ropes.
Aside from the sheer fright of such military weaponry being beta-tested on our citizens, I'm a little concerned about second order effects. Asphixiating bubbles? Does it melt or what happens if you are breathing this stuff at the bottom of a football-style pileup? Instant freezing on cold sidewalks? Heart attacks? Could people slide into traffic or babies fall into sewers? etc.
Also this could be a nasty transport mechanism for gel-capsules of other substances maybe irritants. Is there any chance this could be used frm a height like poorman's napalm?
This sickening line of thought launched by wondering what the protesters might do if they had some with them. It might be very nasty with a Moltov thrown on it, or mixed with gasoline or acetone. You couldn't just drop and roll, you can't run away, and it could be aspirated. A terrifying catastrophe waiting to happen.
I wonder how this stuff would fare against a good set of homemade insta-crampons? Hell, even against a good pair of second-hand soccer cleats?
Where there's tech, there's counter-tech.
What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey
In the good old days, the police grabbed a bunch of shotguns (12 gauge riot guns), and fired at the rioter's legs or the ground in front of the rioters.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
By having come up with a plan for terrorists to strike fear into our hearts, cause havoc and mayhem and possibly killing people, you are in violation of several new federal laws!
You will be placed under arrest, put before a kangaroo court and never be heard from again.
Been nice to know you Mr. Gnovos.
We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
If you are worried about people sitting behind desks condemning soldiers and civilians to death, worry about the politicians that start these wars. None of the wars the US has engaged in since WWII have had much justification in US "defense", nor have they been particularly effective.
Whoever your orders SAY are the bad guys
-- 73 de KG2V For the Children - RKBA! "You are what you do when it counts" - the Masso
This is an Olympic Sport waiting to happen, if I've ever seen one. :-)
So how is this "non-hazardous"? Are they going to hand out safety harnesses to crowds before they get sprayed with slime?
The mass anti-corporate globalization protests over the past three years have seen the development of some fairly effective, DIY defense tactics against "non-lethal" crowd control measures.
Tear gas and pepper spray? Bandanna soaked with cider or vinegar on the low end, gas mask on the high end, full-coverage clothing. Gas masks are especially preferable if the riot troopers are especially teargas-happy.
Batons and rubber bullets? Shields, helmets, padding, and loads of backup.
I haven't learned of any reasonable defenses against taser attacks yet, and they have been used on occasion (I'm specifically thinking of a few incidents during the Ottawa G20/IMF/WB protests last November). Something would be needed to block the electrodes; hockey pads, perhaps? Sometimes, dogs will also be used (again, Ottawa G20), and there's just not much you can do when a well-trained Fido decides to gnaw on your leg. Again, padding, perhaps sports pads.
This stuff? Skis, high-traction footwear, maybe carry something to dissolve the slime. Perhaps sandbags might become the next big thing at protests?
Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
the police were tired of criminals giving us the slip, and wanted to get their own back?
A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
Capitalism has no mechanisms for dealing with its own flaws. The only thing that keeps capitalism from getting out of control is democracy.
Of course. Without democracy, capitalism in itself has no controlling feedback. Democracy is the control. Democracy is essential.
In the US the government is controlled by the corporations so democracy is no longer a check on capitalism.
Nothing is stopping us from having this discussion. Nothing is stopping you or anyone else from creating real, effective, meaningful political movements that could effectively correct flaws. Not smash windows! Correct flaws! Nothing is stopping you people.
But you don't. And that's the problem in my view.
Somebody's got to do it! But who? Why not the people? Who are you waiting for?
Smashing windows will not make a Savior appear. The people must do it. From the bottom up. Through hard work. Blood, sweat and screaming running tears! Not some hero. Nobody but the people.
Definitely not the "media attention" that the so-called Anarchists so crave with their smashups, even though they complain about the evil media corporations.
If the media corporations are evil, then don't wait for the media to save you! Do it yourselves for goodness' sake!
I can also see another problem. Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela made real sacrifices. The rioters don't even dare show their faces demonstrating in democratic countries. Their sympathisers don't even dare risk a few damn slashdot karma points showing their nick in discussions like this.
I realize that you don't see any importance in this. But it's really absolutely essential. Those who are not willing to stand for their views, wether it costs them some sacrifice or not, those cannot get political gains. It's not just that they don't deserve it. It simply isn't attainable.
Give a man a fish and he eats for one day. Teach him how to fish, and though he'll eat for a lifetime, he'll call you a miser for not giving him your fish.
Terrorists can't threaten a country's freedom and democracy. Only lawmakers and voters can do that.
As a former trombone player, I'm guessing this stuff wouldn't be what you'd want. It sounds like they lay this stuff on thick enough that the slipperyness is provided by low-friction shear within their gloop. A trombone slide is a tight enough fit (at the bottom seal area anyway) that their gloop wouldn't be thick enough to contain the internal shear.
One of those silicone pastes and water is still probably the best bet for you. (Please don't tell me you're still using oil!)
--Rob
The problem with fences is that people get crushed against them. It's a known problem at soccer-games and the riots afterwards and/or during. Maybe if they did it with fences + the goo people would just slip away from eachother? ;)
rxvt, suse, vi, solaris, debian, java, c, feel the love. #unix@IRCnet, #gimp & #gnome@GIMPnet
'nuf said.
-josh
Is it just me, or has anyone related it to a weapon in Ultima's?
What happens when riots break out in wintery conditions, such as the riot in Salt Lake during the Olympics?
It freezes everything solid and there are a couple of hundred hypothermia cases to deal with at the local hospital...
Interesting possibilities...
Try running around in cleats (plastic, metal or otherwise) in an urban environment on concrete... you'd be better off trying your luck with the goo.
So you're a smart bastard and you bring a change of shoes with you... hehe, I'd love to see that, guy sprayed with goo, police closing in.. hold on a sec, lemme change my shoes here... oops, (starts sliding away from his packpack) plop! aaahhh, my mp3 player full of warez!
Anyway, I applaud anything non-lethal that can be used to control OUT of control crowds and rioters. It is a Good Thing(TM) to have options contrary to shooting or beating people when they are out of control.
This is humane and shows the great lengths we go to to try NOT to hurt/kill those among us would would destroy our property or create mayhem and in many cases cause the deaths of innocents (trampling, beating etc.).
Toddlers are the stormtroopers of the Lord of Entropy.
Riots are typically started by the police.
My discussions with rioters showed that in Gothemburg last summer this was very clearly not the case.
Sure, the Black Block did whine a lot about police provocation, but it was very, very clear that they came to Gothemburg intent on rioting. Out of principle. The thrown rock is a Political Statement. Just listen to their arguments. It's very, very clear.
the powers that be want ruthless, violent psychopaths there to control the populace.
Control the populace? In this context the police are pawns. They have no more say in the general political directions of the country than any other voters. They are not your adversary. They control riots, not national political directions, nor corporations. Pawns. Forget about them.
The idea that the police provoke riots by repressing the crowd is pitiful. When the police tells you to stop, or to go that way, or whatever, then just do what they say and that's it. Going this street or the other street will not change the political directions of the country.
Do you realize that there are strong political forces that stand to gain a lot by the riots? You can't have a strong, purposeful, universally respected political movement of the people, respected so that everybody listens, if at the same time you have football-hooligan clowns smashing up the streets.
The broken windows costs pennies compared to the enormous gains that some interests have from the riots.
So if the police says stop, just stop. They're not your adversary.
The propaganda of the so-called Anarchists is rife with vested interests of those who profit by two things: The riots, and the national protectionsm that holds down the economies of the developing countries. (Keep the countries from trading so they stay poor, just like a guy who can't find a job stays poor. It's almost exactly the same thing.)
No, it's not a conspiracy. I don't believe in conspiracies. It's just a few books, and after that simple human gullibility. It's really very, very sad.
Just open your eyes. Just listen to what they say.
Give a man a fish and he eats for one day. Teach him how to fish, and though he'll eat for a lifetime, he'll call you a miser for not giving him your fish.
Terrorists can't threaten a country's freedom and democracy. Only lawmakers and voters can do that.
I'm glad that this research is being done! So what, the government is trying to handle riots in a safer, better way. If anything, this will encourage peaceful protests and deter harmful ones.
They aren't "silencing critics" they're protecting violent mobs from themselves and the police who deal withthem, all to save *you* personal and finacial harm.
It doesn't matter what your politics are, if you're violent, you deserve to face the consequences. Personally, being slimed wouldn't be as bad as bullets.
Moderation: Put your hand inside the puppet head!
Beats the crap out of the beauty and the beast. Reserve your tickets now!
Sorry to burst your bubble, but it is hardly true that people only riot for good cause. Notable poor causes in the U.S. include your college team winning a sporting event. Woo hoo, we won, let's go flip someone's car over and set something on fire!
find it here
This reminds me of some great fun I had as a small child. We took a can of green slime (some of you may remember its glory barely contained in those little plastic garbage cans) and decided it would be fun to squish it out onto the carport.
I don't remember the details of this event progressing to the point of wetting down the entire carport floor and sliding across it, but the effect was to destroy any frictive capacity of the concrete. This was incredibly fun until dad arrived from work that day and attempted to park his car.
Wouldn't KY mixed with tree sap do the same thing?
The biggest trick the devil pulled was letting lawyers become politicians so they can write the laws.
Not really. Rioters are advancing down a street. Police slime a section of the street in front of them, put up signs, and making announcements, saying 'This area has been slimed; attempting to travel over it will likely result in you being wounded, possibly quite severly. Go home.'
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Microwave pain devices, crowd stunners, directed painful noise producers, movement inhibitors, etc.
What's happening to our right to protest? Didn't we used to have a voice?
the simple definition you gave would also outlaw Mace, Pepper spray, and other devices commonly used by police forces.
The police are not millitary and therefore are not bound by chemical warfare / geneva convention and other such "international laws".
Thus the police can use tear gas etc but the army can't.
As an example, look at the arguments surounding camp x-ray prisoners in deciding wheather they are civilians or millitary and thus, the conditions in which they can be held.
(Not that the average National Enquirer reader gives a damn of course)
Anyone quoted by a reporter knows how little they understand
Don't believe what you read is the truth.
I'll just be sure to wear my golf cleats.
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
But with this slippery slim, you are free to move your muscles as much as you like, it just won't be very effective because the surface you are on isn't being particularly responsive. Regardless, you still aren't incapacitated. You can still move - you just might end up falling a lot.
What they really should do, is all riots could be simulated by a computer. The computer would choose 'fatalities' in the riot, and then the people chosen could report to disintegration chambers. Certainly this is a good solution.
this sig limit is too small to put anything good h
Nickelodeon has been testing this stuff for YEARS.
"Instant banana peel" has been around since 1972.
It was used a couple of times in anti-Vietnam war rallies/riots (definitions depend on who you talk to). The rally/riot organizers loathed it -- it turned their nice focused, angry gathering into a party. The stuff is fun.
Welcome to the Turing Tarpit, where everything is possible but nothing interesting is easy.
What *really* makes me nervous about "spraying slime on the lawn"? They *say* it's nonhazardous, but do we really want this stuff in our drinking water? They can say it's safe all they life, but the Romans had lead in their aqueducts, we sprayed DDT on *everything*, PCBs were safe, MSG is harmless...you get the idea.
Running out of beer at the Budweiser tent.
What they need to do is to test this in the latest release of State of Emergency. Nothing like a good numerical simulation to figure out if something will work. That way, I can see whether my molotov cocktails, hand grenades, etc. will be compatible Oh, plus I can pee on the slime.
Did I read that right? Its so slippery that they could have seriously injured themselves? What a great way to stop a riot, but them all in the hospital.
I was just re-reading an old Jerry Pournelle novel (Prince of Mercenaries, a novel of Falkenberg's Legion) in which just such a slippery chemical spraw was used for crowd control while one of the main characters was in the crowd.
I find it somewhat ironic that 2 days later I'm reading about the same thing in the real world.
As life borrows yet another idea from the world of science fiction.
Sanity is a sandbox. I prefer the swings.
I wanna try the stuff out! Lets get a riot together once they deploy this stuff!
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
yeah, but, as you said, given the nature of this gel it's alot more use against a peaceful march than it is a random horde of anarchists with firebombs - you don't want to trip someone with a molotov, you want to arrest him, preferably by incapacitating him from a distance. The example given above about using this stuff to prevent, IE, sit ins and other peaceful actions a la MLK is a good one.
Well, generally, the idea is to prevent the demonstration from turning into a riot in the first place. You see, everybody prattles on and on about 'peaceful demonstrations' and what not, and that's fine; people do have the right to form up into a huge crowd and shout their displeasure. But what the cops know, and what the psychs know, is that it only takes one or two agitators to turn a peaceful crowd into a rioting mob. And the police know that no matter what happens, they're screwed. If they show up in riot gear as a deterrant, they're jackbooted thugs intimidating the crowd. If they don't show up, they were obviously too busy eating donuts to safeguard the safety and property of the good citizens. And the news only ever shows them wading in and cracking skulls; never shows them taking abuse, hurled rocks, and so on. But if nothing else, it can be used for containment.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Anti-globalization protest degenerates into mass orgy as cops deploy KY-Jelly on rioters.
Hmmm... maybe I should start going to protests.
-cbare
Come ON... you were ALL thinking it.
;)
Or if you weren't, you certainly are now
"Mind, as manifested by the capacity to make choices, is to some extent present in every electron." -Freeman Dyson
I mean, tear gas is bad and not used often, but after a few hours, you're all back to normal.
...
...).
[] Once you're downwind of twenty-plus canisters, things start getting iffy. [] Numerous women reported early periods after the April 2001 Quebec City protests
Not to mention that tear gas scars the breathing passages, leading to lifelong lung problems and asthma, and disolves in the body fat, re-emerging throughout life to make you sick whenever you lose weight. Long-term irritants promote cancer, infectious diseases, autoimmune reactions (such as arthritis, Grave's syndrome, Lupus,
Tear gas in enclosed spaces where people can't escape before they drown in their own mucus is deadly. That's why it's forbidden in warfare for trying to get people out of caves and tunnels.
Tear gas tends to kill small children, both because they're more susceptable for several reasons and because masks, if available, won't fit well enough to keep it out.
Tear gas plus fire equals cyanide gas.
Aerosol teargas projectors leave the air filled with finely divided dust particles, which burn well enough (ala dust explosions) to superheat a large volume of air (rendering the area lethal) and ignite flammable materials at multiple points within it. The solvent used is also flammable, making its use near sources of ignition such as pilot lights or lanterns even more problematic. Tear gas projectiles use a flare to vaporize and disperse the solid form. Using the first (fuel) followed by the second (igniter) creates a firebomb.
If the tanks carrying the injectors have already knocked down the stairs (trapping people upstairs), collapsed the tunnels (trapping them in the underground "safe room"), collapsed walls (trapping them even on the first floor), and opened the building to the wind (to blow up the fire) you end up with a lot of drowned children, poisoned adults, and incinerated bodies. Whether done deliberately or accidentally, such a site becomes a death camp, but much more efficient than any in World War II.
Which is apparently what happened at Waco.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
So how is this "non-hazardous"? Are they going to hand out safety harnesses to crowds before they get sprayed with slime?
"Liquid banana peel" - either this or another one - was invented in the late '60s (as a water-cannon additive) and rejected at that time.
Test subjects wearing helmets and knee/elbow pads were shown in promos, but even some of them were injured.
Imagine a crowd down, many with compound fractures, and the paramedics trying to fish them out and patch them up before they bleed to death.
Then imagine the paramedics too slippery to help - or to go help anyone else.
Then imagine the floor of the emergency room with slick spots from stuff transferred from patients.
Then imagine it during a city-wide riot, with burning and looting.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
So if we see the goo being deployed, we all run in the direction of those applying it, then "slip 'n' slide" at them at great speed. This could be just as devastating on the opposition as a stampede.
So we go from an annoying crowd to thousands of people hurtling through the town upwards of 20 MPH, especially on a downhill. It's like a giant shotgun blast of people.
And the resulting news coverage, if the media doesn't just stay silent about it like it obediently always does, is that the cops are causing all these people to skid uncontrollably to their inevitable death on impact of a solid object.
I don't think this was very well thought out, at least not in the context of "how can a crowd use this to their advantage."
"Let him go, Ralph. He knows what he's doing." --Otto Mann (simpsons)
haha sure there franchises, but don't think for one minute the "owners" of those franchises have any control over what they do.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
In a world where corporation are suing people for stating there opinion, how can someone geet attention to there cause?
You are correct in your post, but if people keep getting pushed around for there opinions, and newspaper,ISPs and Magazines keep getting sued for publishing other peoples opinions, breaking windows may be are only course.
It would be nice if it never gets to tnat point, but if things don't change within 5 years, that WILL be are only recourse.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
sidewalk denial of service attack just sounds cool.
Mobility denial system? Give me a break... if this stuff is as indeed as slick as stated, then it would be quite easy to become mobile over it.
Simply back up and run at it, and jump at the ground over the area of application. You'd slide an idefinate distance, and you'd probably not have to worry about cuts and scrapes - after all, such hurtful items would cause friction, which would provide traction, the very thing this lube cancels out.
I wonder if this stuff will be sold at pharmasuticals near the KY in coming years.
I wonder what the legal implications of this stuff would be - you'd likely get many people sueing the government or police forces for injuries inflicted. It would probably insight the mobs even more, and thus cause the participants to turn upon each other. I'd think something like a spray-on mellowing agent (pot/E in a can? [sic]) would be much more effective... you'd have people making love in the streets... imagine the publicity... "LA Riot turns into hot kinky orgy"... then again, this could probably happen with the lube.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
In the US the government is controlled by the corporations so democracy is no longer a check on capitalism.
Nothing is stopping us from having this discussion.
You completely fail to address the point. Yes it's true that nothing is stopping us from having this discussion, but this discussion is not where power is created or democracy is wielded.
Nothing is stopping you or anyone else from creating real, effective, meaningful political movements that could effectively correct flaws.
Well, nothing other than police who don't discriminate between violent and non-violent protestors, an apathetic electorate who feels they have no power to make change, a corporate-government system that sees no point in educating people to the fact that they can effect change, a corporate system that requires the vast majority of people to spend the majority of their energy and time just working to survive (never mind 'get ahead') so leaving no time for activism, a well-funded two-party system that is supported by media conglomerates who typically wave third party concerns to the side (eg, televised debates where third party candidates aren't even invited), laws that increasingly muzzle free speech when it is critical of the corporations, electoral finance funding laws that benefit law-makers and corporations far more than the democratic citizen, an economic system that places more value on paper-profit than real people and very often encourages the former at the expense of the latter, a judicial system where money can purchase increased time to re-try the cases, a judicial system that considers corporations to have all the rights of personhood while having none of the duties, and in short, an entire system devoted to the idea that money=power, as opposed to the idea that voices=power, which is the corner-stone of democracy.
I'm not belittling your comment that we must stand for our views, you're absolutely right and there is nothing more important. But really, to say that there is nothing stopping people from having their views become power is ignoring the realities of the system currently in place and maintained by those who derive their power from that system.
That Jesus Christ guy is getting some terrible lag... it took him 3 days to respawn! -NJ CoolBreeze
Whatever you may think of the anti-WTO protesters for whom this invention is clearly made, i hope you will agree that people like them have the right to criticize the government, and make their voices heard.
I agree 100% with this. They have a right, even a responsibility to criticize their government and to make their voices heard.
That being said the moment their "protest" violates some other groups freedom of speech and/or association the police should with as little force as possible (but as much as is necessary) prevent their doing so. Breaking up or preventing meetings by forming "human chains" accross roads or entryways is not "protest" or "speech" but a violation of some other groups rights regardless of the justness of the cause motivating that violation.
Even more obviosly: should a peaceful protest devolve into a violent riot (as large and passionate crowds are prone to do regardless of their initial peacableness and despite the best intentions of their organizers). Throwing rocks, breaking windows, overturning cars are not free speech, they are crimes and they are commited not by protesters but by a mob. Such mobs are so destructive and dangerous that almost ANY level of force necessary to quell such a mob is justified - The goal of non-lethal methods like this "slime" is to make available a method less severe than a "whiff of grapeshot"
You also seem to be under the naive impression that protestors by necessity occupy the moral high-ground so by extension any attempt to establish order must be unjust probably motivated by fascism. Sadly this is not the case, there is nothing particularly morally elevating about the act of protest itself. Protesters are just as likely to be blocking Elizabeth Elsford's access to the schoolhouse door or breaking windows on kristalnacht as they are to be (presumably morally justified?) blocking international diplomats access to WTO meetings or breaking the windows of Starbucks in Seattle or Milan.
The police are not military and therefore are not bound by chemical warfare / Geneva convention and other such "international laws".
While I would be inclined to agree with you I can't. The OPCW does not ban the use of these chemicals in warfare; it bans the PRODUCTION of these chemicals. And it really makes no distinction of military vs. civil police. Being ex-military I would want to agree with you, but the wording on OPCW is not a use ban, it is a production ban. The cops are allowed to use it, but besides for an exemption for very small quantities they wouldn't be able to get any made.
Now as someone else pointed the original posters definition was flawed, OPCW is geared at chemicals the halt a person thru biological reactions not thru pure immobilization so really this all is mute.
iRepairIT - iPhone, Mac, & PC Repair
Oh, so if I use sensible (& nonviolent) countermeasures to protect myself from police intent on denying my right to peaceful assembly, I'm a "hooligan"? I don't think so. The police are rapidly becoming the shock troops for a corporate-plutocratic society, just like they used to be the shock troops for an apartheid one in the American south. They'll continue to develop technological means of denying your civil rights, just like they used fire hoses and dogs on marching African-Americans back in the dark days of the civil rights movement. We can't take that "lying down" (or sitting on our asses in slippery goo as the case may be).
Freedom: "I won't!"
Slippery slime + BIG parking lot + car. It sounds like one hell of a ride to me. This could have high entertainment value.
t'nera semordnilap
If you're protesting, what's not being able to move going to do? You'll still be there to yell "Hell no we won't go." And if this gel were on you, you couldn't go, even if you wanted to!
Yes, you have the right to protest (in the US) and all that. But, many protests of late are actually riots in disguise (especially those WTO "protests").
Too big to fail? Does that make me to small to succeed?
This stuff would remove all directional control that aircraft had: in the event of even a slight crosswind on takeoff, it'd end up sliding off the tarmac and most likely trashing the undercarriage . . .
Water, snow and ice can all be made to have minimal resistance in one direction, but very high resistance perpendicular to that direction - it's a completely different matter to this goo.
himi
My very own DeCSS mirror.
...demand that each can sold is bundled with a big yellow 'caution slippery surface' safety sign. Clever resellers bundle a trolley with the above kit to ensure freedom of movement, as stipulated by the gazillionth amendment.
Use The Source, Luke!
Protesters look like hippies, but they're not dumb. I'm sure that they would figure out a strategy for dealing with the goo. For example: as soon as your're slimed, get down on your stomach, and pull yourself forward by planting a sharp object into the ground and pulling yourself forward. Then, you realize you're drunk, high, slimy and prone with a bunch of drunk, high hippy chicks you don't know. Hmmm. I know what would be on my mind right about then.
You can be sure that a police-lubricated orgy for peace would get into the news. Plus, now let's be serious, it would be a lot of fun!
the "mob mentality" defense is bullshit- crimes are committed by individuals, acting alone or in groups.
OK, as you said "acting in groups" AKA "a mob".
If you are indeed perfectly innocent and the guy next to you is throwing rocks at a line of police AND you are stupid enough to REMAIN standing next to him... Well don't blame the police for your suffering. The whole world, from the laws of physics to the dynamics of human interaction, can be unforgiving of stupidity.
the problem with this is that your "mob" is generally made up of a few criminal individuals and a lot of innocent individuals.
<sarcasm> Yes, we have often seen protestors turn in horror at the violent criminals in their midst, and asist the police by wrestling them to the ground and handing them over</sarcasm>
Seriously, many protesters are perfectly innocent and are indeed apalled by the rock throwers. Perhaps they just lack the courage to stop them. Many others are relatively innocent and while they didn't throw a rock themselves have no problem with those that do. But what do you want the police to do about it? Whether or not there is such a thing as "mob mentality" there is certainly such a thing as mob violence - which throughout history has done a great deal of damage and gotten a great many people killed. If you are "innocent" but are allowing yourself by your continued presence to voluntarily act as a human sheild for those "few criminal individuals" be glad there is a non-lethal method to controlling the mob. Because even if the only option was more severe it would be warranted.
of course, if you're an american, this is probably ok with you, given america's actions in afganistan and the fact that you're not all out in the streets protesting.
Why should we be out in the streets protesting? If the government did nothing THEN there would be protesting. As it is the people are quite satisfied with america's actions in afghanistan and rightly so! It is gratifying to have a government that doesn't have Vichy water running through it's veins.
ISTR that the one incendiary-type gas canister found on the premises was fired hours before the fire broke out. And on top of this, many of the dead were found shot to death (including Koresh himself).
While you won't have any trouble showing that the tactics of the government were ridiculous (if they wanted Koresh they could have arrested him when he went into town, alone), there is nothing to support the case that the tear gas caused the fires. The evidence proves that the Davidians committed suicide, as their apocalyptic theology demanded that they die; the government's stupidity was in pushing them in ways all but guaranteed to make them do it.
Scientists restrict study to entire physical universe; creationist