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Alan Cox: The Battle for the Desktop
richjones writes: "There's a new interview with Alan Cox up. I think he's right on the money with how Linux is going to spread into businesses, but he seems to think Internet applications are going to be big with consumers... I can't really see it... but he's Alan Cox, so he must know :)"
I'll bet he had his glasses on while interviewing. If he didn't, his responses probably would have been "GAH!!" "OH DEAR LORD SHUT OFF THE LIGHT!" "TOO BRIGHT! CAN'T CODE!"
Much apologies to Userfriendly.
JoeLinux
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Marcelo Tosati the new kernel maintainer now ?
but he's Alan Cox, so he must know :)"
...and there, ladies and gentleman, is one of the main problems with the open source movement, the computer industry, and society in general
See other Alan Cox interviews here and here.
Besides being a kernel hacker, you're a bit of a cult figure or role model among open-source developers. Are you aware of that, does it affect you at all?
Not particularly. I try and avoid those situations. I don't tend to lurk where people can find me.
What?!? Does this mean he doesn't vote in /. polls?
This
Of course Internet Applications are going to be big with consumers. I don't see why they wouldn't. They don't require installation, they don't crash, they don't take space on the harddrive and they're easier to use. This can be good to Linux. The more PHP or Zope apps we create, the better.
Check out this weirdness in the interview:
"How militant are you about which licences people use for their software, and how they use them?
People who are not following the (free software) licence are pirates, it's as simple as that. It's no different if you take GPL (GNU Public Licence) code and don't give people the source code, or if you make copies of movies and sell them to people, it's the same thing. In terms of other software, it really depends on the people who write it. I don't think you have a right to dictate how somebody controls their own work, apart from the very, very basic standard you'd expect."
Was this a bad cut and paste job or other bad editing or what?
For the first part of the question it's almost like they asked him about that recent askslashdot
where the guy was asking about his company's dodgy "interpretation" of the gpl, abusing it
for pleasure and profit.
In the last half of his answer, he appears to be on topic, but just take the question and the first
sentence of the reply and it makes Alan Cox look like some kind of idiot...
graspee
It's sneaking in via devices like the Tivo. Here's a solid, reliable utterly useful device with a great interface. Think of it as proof of concept that Linux can be used to make a computer for your Mom.
"How perfectly Goddamn delightful it all is, to be sure" Charles Crumb
Like many geeks ... er programmers without any notion
of business, Mr. Cox misses the ball on the proliferation
of Linux into the consumer market. Linux will continue to
be a niche product on the desktop until the day that AOL and
the other major Internet-service providers (ISPs) provide
an Internet client that runs on Linux. Why? The #1 consumer
application -- the killer application, if you will -- is
Internet connectivity.
When will AOL provide an Internet client that allows me to dial into AOL?
...he seems to think Internet applications are going to be big with consumers... I can't really see it...
I can see it, and here is why: As technology spreads throughout the world, the devices are going to become easier and easier to come by. Soon they will just be a part of life for everyone. Look at how televisions are in every household now, and a radio in every car. This is just standard progress, and the devices that are based on the technology will just get simpler and simpler to use.
I was particularly enamoured by Alan's example of the Black and Decker equipment, "So I could see in a few years' time owning a home PC becomes kind of like the Black & Decker DIY kit -- it's something people have because they enjoy that kind of thing, not something people have because they want to get on with certain specific tasks."
That said, I find it hard to believe that Cox believes that he's going to be arrested in the US for posting security fixes. Maybe he wants to make a point, but he should just voice his concerns of the DMCA without exagerating the whole thing.
IMNSHO it won't be a true player in the desktop game until it becomes easier for novice users to install and use it. Has it gotten better? Sure, but imagine a technophobe trying to install it.
I found that log very disturbing to read.
(regarding the first Linux Summit)
The official part of it was actually very non-productive. The amount of work that got done over beer and at three in the morning cannot possibly be underestimated.
.sig last updated Jan. 14, 2000
Or, if you need more proof... Look at MacOS X
Because clearly an operating system can only be monopolising if it looks like fisher price, and every feature almost-works, before changing all your settings sporadically. Pick up some microsoft tact, install linux once, no better.. have a linux cd near your computer, and nothing else will run on it, ever!
Of course Internet Applications are going to be big with consumers.
Hotmail
eBay
Amazon
IMDB
...
...When another guy makes a joke about your comic AND draws your characters hundreds of times better than you do.
C-X C-S
"Oh! Right in the mean bean machine!"
What internet are you using? How many times do you click on the [Checkout] button and the damn thing never responds? Then you're stuck with: "Gee do I click on it again and hope I don't get billed twice, or not click again and never see the product".
Here's two: Office and the Bloomberg service...
Just a couple of the critical apps we need. If I can't even coax an OS X version of Bloomberg out of them, how can I persuade them to do a Linux port (even though it'd be easy, since they do/did a Solaris version).
And we still *need* Office. OpenOffice (which I burn CDs of for employees' home use, after they get sticker shock at the cost of Office) isn't a sufficient replacement. (hopefully this is just a -yet-)
We need apps. Big ones. How do we get there?
---
Information wants...you to shut your pie hole.
so I suppose you know more than Alan Cox huh? Unless your name is Linus, I really doubt it.
If you, like me, are on dial-up and would rather be linked to the entire article on one page, click here .
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
Question: In the article, it says, "more and more people are starting to address that with appliances, some of which are Linux-based, some of which are not."...are IAs bigger in Europe than in the US or are they big here and I just can't see them? I recall several IAs showing up and vanishing over here. Have they met with more success across the Atlantic?
I found it interesting that he would prefer not to visit the US because of current copyright issues. I wonder what people in other countries think of our copyright schemes, I know each country has its own intellectuall property protection problems, but our (US) system seems generally more basterdized then most.
Business News and Resources: www.usasource.net
I think we are going to see a shift in thought about what computers are, and what they can do for us. As Alan stated, users want services, if their computer messes up, they want to hit the power button, and have it all come back like it was. Users don't want to have to deal with hardware issues, they want their computer to work like their phone. Plug it in, and it works - it just works.
Perhaps what Alan was unconsciously advocating was the promotion of terminal services like those being developed by LTSP and perhaps companies offering terminal/computer services to employees, and perhaps in a broader sense, 'computer utilities' who would offer computer service to residential and small business customers.
Compared to Microsoft, which requires 3 (count them, 3) licences for one user on one thin client to connect to one terminal server (one for the terminal server OS, one for the client OS, and one for the Client Access Licence), Linux can provide better functionality at a fraction of the cost. Linux opens this market, where Microsoft has sufficiently stifled its growth by making it more difficult than it should be to enter that market.
I haven't lost my mind!
It is backed up on disk...somewhere...
Most of the people I know who have personal email addresses - use hotmail. It's the worlds biggest internet app.
I have used Yahoo Calendar as my organising tool before. It's another internet app.
They're easy to use, simple to start, accessible from almost anywhere.
They aren't the future, they're the present.
My Journal
isn't there people reverse engineering the AOL protocol to do exactly that?
How we know is more important than what we know.
Quote:
The amount of work that got done over beer and at three in the morning cannot possibly be underestimated.
Did he really mean to say this?
I have discovered a wonderful
Home apps are:
Internet connection
Low end Ethernet NIC to broadband
Wireless to broadband
Low end office apps for personal/school
Personal bookkeeping/money
Geneology and similar specialized apps
Multimedia
CD operations including stripping and burning
CD burning for data backup
Games
Internet games
IM
Color scanning
Color printing
Sharable file formats
Trackball/optical mouse support
Joystick game controller support
Quick boot
Resilient recovery from hard power off
I don't know about you guys, but I've seen users get completely lost when installing software, or looking for that .doc file he saved somewhere, or even trying to add a music to a winamp playlist.
Well, I'm an experienced user and would say "you dumb***, drag that outta the floppy's window to the playlist and it's done" but hey... they have no clue about how the GUI works!
Say what you want, but for users who only touch the comp. once a week or less, and can't even program that video they have for years already... ALL the options we have as OS (Yeah, I know MacOSX) suck. Bad.
When are we doing to put a level of abstraction between that lousy filesystem design (in the user's point of view) so we can really add INFORMATION where we want? Can I add a note to my DivX;-) file? Nope. File design doesn't allow it. What if I wanted an email attached to an MP3? Nope. Can't.
If we learned something with Apple's iTunes, iPhoto, iWhatever, we'd see they KEEP THE USER FAR AWAY FROM THE FS, while not completely locking the user away from it. Beautiful, huh? So why are we still insisting in making a WINDOWS CLONE out of our GUIs???
I know this reply floats around a bunch of topics, but they all end up in the same question: DOES THE SOFTWARE SERVES US WELL, EASILY? CAN IT DO WHAT I WANT/NEED???
"Hack that directory tree!!!"
--Drake 2c
There is the PengAol project where they have created a *working* client to access aol. the downside is that it's all in french and appears to only work in france (I've never gotten it to work). Maybe you can try your luck and/or donate some code to the project.
WikiAfterDark.com It's a sex wiki, go now!
So: how long does this guy keep posting here before he figures out that our pages aren't actually getting any wider?
My point is, in 10 years, everyone is going to want to use a computer, use the internet, and use them both together, seamlessly, all the time. On everything, from comptuers to PDAs to the fridge. We'll have computers that'll blow your mind and enough bandwidth (well, maybe not enough) to do just about anything. Linux and windows won't have anything to do with this. Get over it. The only thing will matter is the user interface. The computer won't matter, because they'll be extremely powerful, and the OS won't matter, because most people won't even be able to say what "OS" stands for. The only way to get consistent interfaces across multiple platforms that are internet ready is to just have them be IAs and have it all run off a central server. The dumb terminal will have its revenge.
If you have a fast local network, it's not difficult to play a DVD on one machine and watch the decoded picture on another.
Yes it is. The DVD CCA would never allow digital output of a CSS decoder, and now that the WIPO Copyright Treaty is going/has gone into effect, the whole world can sing it with me: "It's fun to violate D-M-C-A, it's fun to violate D-M-C-A!"
Will I retire or break 10K?
Maybe I should clarify my drunken rambling...my point was just that computers in 10 or 20 years will be off the wall. I'm personally tired of people speculating about the future of computers. Noone knows for sure its all just people wagging their egos. Even Alan just has his head up his ass, so focused on coding. In 20 years computers won't even resemble anything remotely close to what we have now. We'll be using DNA grafted into our skin or something I don't know. And in 30 years....Jesus, I doubt the term "OS" or "Application" will even have any meaning. Programming probally won't even exist as we know it know.
Linux sucks as a desktop. Sure, it is a quality server and config files/compiling apps aren't intimidating to your average slashdotter, but as soon as joe six-pack looks at linux, he's gonna say "fuck that faggot bullshit".
But "Mom and Pop" don't want to have to deal with that stuff... a little hand holding and an easy install are all they want, because at the end of the day, all they care about is that they can get their email, surf the web, and little Johnny and Janie can look up their homework assignments (etc).
So let Janie's geeky friend from down the street come over and install it.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Mark Andresen of Netscape fame.
What has he done lately?
Being right once doesn't mean you are right, or insightful, forever after.
Really, if you want false hope, you could believe what he wrote.
I do not know a single company standardizing on Linux for desktops.
It has not happened in the past. Its not happening now. It will not happen in the future.
Linux costs too much in terms of productivity from the secretary all the way up to programmer.
The only time I ever saw Linux on a desktop was when someone left a Redhat CD on their desk at work.
I'm still working on a clever footer.
M$ owns the desktop until there a robust
Office clone... My perfect anti-trust settlement
would force M$ and all other companies to
use standardized file formats and submit their
extensions to a standards body.
With MS file formats can be imported but never exported. OpenOffice comes close with most file
formats but there are still companies that would
never leave MS office because the have locked
themselves into Excel macros and actually want
to send *.exe files in Outlook, etc.
Until very large companies see he benefits and
just say no to proprietary formats owning THEIR
data ten M$ will continue to reate new formats
for media, e-commerce, distributed computing...
We the people should at least own the right to
2 or more vendors for a given application type.
That's the intent of anti-trust law... Competition
actually works to increase innovation and lower costs.
Of course, free software produces dramatic costs
decreases but it does limit the exchange of value
that creates a robust market. I see Eric Ramond's
Bazaar as a swap meet type of model... Great for
bargains that only the buyer truly values but most
cannot or will ot speculate in... To risky.
Of course, big projects that support consulting
models show some promise to establish some kind of
professional market but it wold ot be the technolog marketplace we have today... and it's hard to tell
the impacts of these models on the economy in the large. As Mel Brook's loved to say as the world's oldest man... "It's a nice living."
"he prefers not to visit the States, because of concerns about the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). " what stuffs are there in DMCA? few detail will be appreciated.
What I don't understand is why AOL created their own (proprietary I might add) protocol for their network (or at least why they continue to use one...). TCP/IP can easily do everything their network does, coupled with a decent web browser and a search domain, typing the "keyword" into your AOL program (standard web browser) will bring up pornfreaks.keywords.aol.com or something that could point to a well coded DHTML or Flash or whatever site. Why do all these people that create proprietary stuff when there are open standards that do the same thing make money? Utilize existing technology to do something new, I'm sure they could make alot more money that way anyways, more userbase is good isn't it. Totally away from the point of this post, but isn't the consumer market migrating away from services like AOL anyhow, everything is availiable on the general internet now, and with broadband becoming the norm, why bother with badly coded software? I work at a (normal) ISP, and whenever someone installs the AOL sofware, it fubars the Windows TCP/IP stack. And if my guess is correct, AOL doesn't have a huge market share, though they have by far the biggest market share. In other words, maybe 10% of Internet users use AOL, the other 90% are spread across local ISP and such (these numbers are arbitrary). When will these monopolistic companies get the picture that people don't like being pushed around (at least people who know anything...)
You clearly have never worked in a computer support position before. Very few "grown ups" view a computer as just another appliance. They see a spooky device with a dark cloud over it, just waiting for them to touch the keyboard so it fail. Most of the calls I can get people could probably figure out if they would just stop and think for a few seconds, but as soon as they encounter anything remotely close to a hurdle, their fingers tap the memorized number of the Help Desk faster than you can say "no, I said right click. Yeah, properties. No, left click this time."
And I'm sorry, although it might be critical to ONE sector, I hardly call it a critical app on the same level as Office/Outlook or Lotus Notes or something.
What ever happened to the AOL/Gateway/Linux internet appliance?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Where the heck is Ottowa, it must be over there by Muntreol, or Vegina.
BFS allowed for exactly that. Shame that the OS wars between Linux, XP, and OSX are a race to see who can catch up to where BeOS was in 1994.
So peope have to install the software so they can connect to AOL. They don't want people on AOL without being ON AOL.
Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
And as everybody knows, Linux does not have internet connectivity and it will be years before it does.
Wait a minute...
Fran
:):):)
1st 1st Poster of the new Millennium!
Why oh why can Linux users not understand that Linux is too hard to use for normal people. It is just too hard! I am not trying to troll here
Once again the dark delights of -1 have been revealed as the empty shadows they truly are. Thank you, K1erck, and may you continue staying up 24x7, for the rest of your life, ensuring that all /. articles are widened at -1 only.
Microsoft - Where would you like to go today, Maybe Jail?
Fascinating, you think smileys are used always to denote sarcasm/irony?
Linux has already won all of my desktops. It has been ages since I booted The Evil OS for anything--even multimedia-related apps. In fact, I couldn't completely switch back to Windows even if I wanted to and was some kind of l33t warez d00d. I have become dependant on the greater flexibility afforded me by all the wonderful OSS out there. 'Critical mass' can't be far away now. My eye is on K and Open Office for bringing about the turning point for the non-tech population.
It sure seems like it.
It's "Ottawa", but that's OK, it's only our nation's capitol ;)
I can't imagine how someone can tell me I can't give something that I made away for free, but that I can sell it.
Sun tried to do all this type of stuff with thin clients about 8 years ago. The idea was, and still is, though SUN doesn't understand why they failed so long ago, that the internet will eventually be "My Network". So, Sun made this logo "The network is the computer."
Now that so many people are into "Grid computing" and the like, web-services are just the beginning. Sun had the right idea with their java stations so long ago, but they were trying to force the change, and be the ones to make the money, rather than just let it happen natrually, and be more of a benefactor/enabler.
You can say It's the MS way of thinking..but it's not..MS is just "embracing/extending" a way of thinking, probably so they can say they invented it too.
Before sun thought of it though..Larry Ellison, from Oracle corp was actually saying it first. SO it's really the Oracle way of thinking if you want to say who's thinking it is!
--SuperBug
Who the hell is Alan Cox?
People are usually amazed when I show them this movie, especially when I say that, yes, you don't have to install any software, you just build it and plug it to the working network. People are used to situation where when you want to add 20 new computers to your office, it's a work for few days, not to mention licensing for the software plus the price of the hardware.
I use this movie in my LTSP propaganda.
~shiny
WILL HACK FOR $$$
http://homepage.mac.com/jcarusone/iMovieTheater2.h tml
Ballmerfunk
Someone correct me if I'm wrong ('cause I probably am) but I think the AOL protocol also includes the ability to notify the server when specific network traffic starts and stops. There is a bug in older versions of AOL that if you get disconnected during a transfer, and you're on dialup, you can't reconnect to AOL (it says you're already connected). To my understanding (again, I don't know if I am exactly right) TCP/IP is a "handshake" protocol. The server has to reach out it's hand to give you something, and you have to reach out your hand to take it, but you can only take small parts, and you have to bring your hand back each time, and then you have to wave and tell the server you got it, but with the AOL protocol, you open your arms and the server dumps it onto you until it's done, and vice-versa. I think the AOL protocol is closer to streaming than data packets, at least that's what the software has led me to believe.
I also believe that the AOL system guarantees bandwidth. No, really, don't laugh. I think the reason why AOL can seem so slow is because AOL won't send you information if the servers are already taxed. You never see AOL start something, then stall, then finish. It either stalls at the request, or it delivers. I seem to recall a friend who did an internship in VA telling me that. The server has so many pieces of pie to give out, and you have to wait your turn, it doesn't just start making the pie pieces smaller (Token Ring concept: you can't talk without the stick).
Now, as far as why AOL hasn't gone open standards, the internet is just full of too many holes. There's a little safety in obscurity with AOL. The AOL software is like a confessional, the information is only going to a group of people that aren't supposed to tell. The internet is like telephone, you have to send it through a ton of people, and who knows who has heard what by the time it gets to the other end.
Not since Marie-Antoinette played milkmaid has looking simple and honest been so fake and complicated.
You don't see it? How can you not?
I look at my laptop. Aside from programming I do with it (for my job).. what do I have running:
Several instances of IE
Trillian (irc/msn/icq/ym/aim)
a stock ticker
Email
These are things I use the computer for probably 90% of the time. And all of them are basically online services.
(It doesn't matter to me if they are run locally or not)
Or to put it differently, they are of no use to me without the network.
yup, he's the closest thing to god we have
No matter how much glorification and idolization
given by the cult of inus, it doesn't disguise
Alan's RHAT stock value is now worth peanuts.
Linux is dying---get that through your skinny
wallet.
f.e. the speechlibrary IIRC, or the windows CE code. Win32 plus a hell of a lot other libraries are not comming with such a license. So the remark AC made was correct in some way but very 'trollish' also because it reads like MS is shipping every lib they create with a license you can't create OSS with it. Which is of course bull.
Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
Of course Internet Applications are going to be big with consumers. I don't see why they wouldn't. They don't require installation, they don't crash, they don't take space on the harddrive and they're easier to use.
Let's see:
IOW, Internet applications may become big, but I fear demand is more driven by IT departments (who but into the "no installation hassle" advantage) than by consumers.
I've been working for a company that created a complex application for storage and manipulation of images. They had a Windows version and a Web-based version. The Web-based version was less functional, looked like shit and was bloody annoying because of the download times.
he seems to think Internet applications are going to be big with consumers... I can't really see it
Wow! You can't see it. Unfortunately I am not able to read the second part of the interview, but going by what is commented, here is my take.
For the past several years, personal computer systems are reorganizing themselves around internet. Most of the people I know use their computers for internet applications only. Then why you can not see that internet applications are going to be big with customers?
yAthum UrE yAvarum kELir All the places are our place, everybody is our kin. (A Tamil Poet - 2000 years ago)
I've whacked together a fair few boxes in my time.
And Joe Shmo likes it simple.
I'm sat there with a 20 Gig HD in my hand...do I partition it...6 GIG for OS/APPS, 6 GIG for Games, and 8 Gig for Storage?....sorry nope....Joe Shmo can't find those extra drives, he has to have a big 20 Gig c: drive because all his files are dragged to the desktop, all his games/apps go into program files folder.
Joe Shmo, doesn't know where the control panel is and doesn't want to.
And when it comes to linux....he'll run in terror. Whilst the entrance learning period for basic operation in Windoze is probably a few hours. Linux will take a few weeks.
Besides..it's different....and Joe Shmo doesn't like different....oh no...can't have 'different' in my street.
Thats why Linux wil never take over the world because, Joe Shmo's have access to technology. and the elitist ' If I can use Linux, so can you' attitude will not wash.
For Linux to be a success on the desktop. The GUI needs to be multilayered....It's default configuration has to be exceedingly simple...fischer price stylee almost (U only have to look at XP to realise that Micro$oft understand this)
And for you hard core guys you can have a nice little button that will switch you from 'Child' Mode to 'Senator' mode to 'Adult' mode to 'Expert..I need to get out more' Mode.
haha. Yeah, 'powerful' is one word for it mate...
Invoicing, Time Tracking, Reporting
It only works with Internet Explorer...
How long will you keep posting before you figure out that you are freaking retard?
It's more basic than that.
..
Look out for linux clients for
Quicktime
Realplayer
Macrovision
....
Too many people use their PCs to access the 'Net for entertainment and expect to be able to access the same mediums regardless of what OS they have on their machines. Without being able to use the likes of the above they will stick with windows (IMHO).
GNU Enteprise
Here's an overview; "GNU Enterprise (GNUe) is a suite of tools and applications for solving the needs of the enterprise. From human resources, accounting, customer relationship management and project management to supply chain or e-commerce, GNUe can handle the needs of any business, large or small. If you are looking for a full-function ERP, GNUe is the package for you.
Details: Written in Python (for easy application creation) and C (for speed), GNUe is under constant and heavy development. If you want to write custom applications for it, it's ready. Pre-packaged applications are on the back burner as the development team works on making the core modules more complete and compliant with varying standards. My personal estimate from following the project is that the first complete applications will show up in about 6 months, and then rapidly accelerate as more app developers learn about GNUe and get interested.
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
This is not a troll, it's the posters opinion. You may not agree with it, but he has the right to say it all the same.
When will you facist moderators allow free speach on this site.
'Alan Cox up'
i wonder was that pun intended.
well i thought it was funny!
--
Guilty. Learn about Google Bombing
If one would sit back and think for a moment what people find comfortable you only have to look to the browser to find what you are looking for. The linux desktop should emulate a web page. Hell I have not seen too damn many people that cannot navigate through a browser interface. Now lets see a little innovation, we take the geco rendering engine and make it the desktop. Next we use a local apache web server and build our desktop on that. Microsoft tried to do it but they really did a suck ass job of it, which is why it did not work. I am willing to bet that we could do a bang up job.
Got Code?
You can try to tell a Larry Ellison or an Alan Cox that people don't *need* a car any more powerful than a Yugo, but they *want* an SUV. You can pointedly ask how someone's going to edit their digital photographs via "Java over the web". You can ask why they're so keen on analogies to the game console market (a notorious graveyard of ambitions). But nothing seems to work.
I think it's called "intellectual arrogance".
-- the most controversial site on the Web
He states that he really dislikes zealot slashbot types.
It all goes over TCP/IP, dude.
It's just another example of what a wanker Taco is. One of these days his ego is going to crash and burn and slashdot will crash and burn with him.
Lets help him along - Use Starship Troopers method, use junkbuster, use the hosts file trick. Just don't give any money to wanker Taco.
Everybody is free to have a sig. of their choice. If some people have a problem with my sig, well.. that's their problem. This is a site for NERDS, not a site for linux zealots alone, but apparantly it seems like it is. Sad. (but, there is hope. If I can get 49 karma points HERE, times MUST be changin' :))
What's also sad is the link there seems to be between "Awesome software developer" and "Linux user" while when you seem to like MS goods you CAN'T BE a good software developer. Ah well..
Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
member of the Luxuriant Flowing Hair Club for Scientists?
Here he is, complete with red hat.
ICQ, Yahoo, AIM, and Odigo all have applet versions. Although they do run on the client, they are contained within the browser. Perhaps they will be able to be started via Java WebStart in the future. That is still started from the server. In any case, the only IM that didn't have a server based contact list was ICQ and now they have finally adopted it with the introduction of their applet.
Is Cox really a fudgie?
I would agree that people could WANT big machines. But is there a better way to make software available, other than through networks? With proper installers, such as apt... Tell me why I'd want CD's!
You look bound to the idea that network computers can ONLY get data from the network. Besides the fact that a fast (100Mbps) network could actually be good enough for a no-disk design, you could also have a disk to "cache" applications.
No worries about instalation. Let the admin (pick any ISP) fix stuff for you, without charging the "visit". Let other people back you stuff up, because YOU DON'T.
Safer, easier.
Other than that plug-n-play feature the net gives you... it does not restrict the rest of your platform.
People should stop thinking of the network computer as a Web+Mail+Java terminal. There's much more to it! We actually need a new way to distribute apps, keeping them enclosed in security boxes so they don't mess up the client machine. (Other than Java, of course)
--Drake 2c
think about this as well, AOL has a private network with resources available to the subscribers that if it was just done over tcp/ip, so many of us "hackers" (as we are so very affectionately referred to) would access the servers without permis. then AOL would have to charge more. also, AOL has had a good thing going so why should they change things now? Okay, ya, the internet sub-arch and arch can handle the AOL way of life, but, AOL had it first, ya?
also, i believe the numbers are about 35% AOL, 25% earthlink, 45% other isps (but these numbers are still arbitrary), don't forget "so easy to use, no wonder it's #1"