Slashdot Mirror
iPod on Windows
niola writes "A story on Yahoo mentions the XPlay -- a cool software package that allows a Windows box with a FireWire port to mount the iPod as if it were a drive (gives it a letter too) so that you can upload songs to it. Looks really cool and has the ability to integrate with Windows Media Player." Will Apple sue over this? I guess it'll depend on whether or not they stand to lose money in lost Mac sales or gain money in extra iPod sales.
Why would Apple sue? It's not in any sort of violation of their copyrights, etc. Unless there's something funky in the license, people can use their hardware whenever and wherever and however they like. It's not like it's a song, it's a song player.
How different is this from connecting my Apple USB keyboard to my PC?
There should be a moratorium on the use of the apostrophe.
Max V.
NeXTMail/MIME Mail welcome
Is there a Linux program that can do the same as this Windows application?
Does it work under Wine if not?
"I guess it'll depend on whether or not they stand to lose money in lost Mac sales or gain money in extra iPod sales."
You trying to tell me people buy macs just to use the ipod?
Firewire's the precursor to USB 2.0 for high-speed transfer of files to and from peripherals. It generally doesn't come standard with computers, but does come with computers built for things like video editing.
a number of sony and compaq computers come with them, and a card can be had for $50 or less if i remember correctly. I don't use PCs though, so I could be wrong.
--
Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things.
but will it now make the iPod unstable because it is infected with windows? Hmm
It's not so hard. My dad got a firewire digital camera and has a Dell laptop. We went out and got an Adaptec PC card at Circuit City for something like $115, and it worked like a charm. I was surprised and impressed. Not at all what I've come to expect from the Windows world.
There should be a moratorium on the use of the apostrophe.
Max V.
NeXTMail/MIME Mail welcome
This would seem to be rather analagous to the whole DeCSS fiasco. If a user purchases a DVD, he should be able to watch it on whatever platform he chooses - Win32 or *nix. Similarly, if a user purchases an iPod, he should be able to use it on whatever platform he chooses - MacOS or Win32.
Apple certainly might *try* to sue, and they might be successful in a legal sense, but the geek backlash would not be conducive to their bottom line.
Also, does anyone know if Apple is taking a loss on the iPod? That might be likely, if they're counting on racking up additional hardware sales... just like MS/Sony selling their consoles at a loss, obviously expecting to make the money up when people purchase games.
I really want an "mp3 player" that looks as good as the IPod, but that uses ogg vorbis encoding. I onlyencode at >320kbps using ogg vorbis for my hd stored music.
whether or not they stand to lose money in lost Mac sales or gain money in extra iPod sales.
:)
will people really buy a mac just to use an ipod? No WAY i'd spend the extra $$ for a mac(and loss of some software selection and hardware support) just to use an MP3 player... I should think more ppl will buy ipod if it works with their existing, or cheaper systems. I know i would if it works with my linux box...
i need to get out more... never seen this slashdot theme before.. nice
Apple has reviewed their software, and has (sorta) blessed it. It even has the same copywrite controls that the mac software has, preventing you from copying the audio tracks from the iPod.
That's NOT to say that you can't use it as a hard drive. You CAN copy stuff to and from it, in hard drive mode, but if you copied mp3's to it in hard drive mode, then you can't listen to them, and if you can listen to the music, then it's not in hard drive mode.
... since they only stand to gain by selling more iPods. I mean, the iPod is great and all, but it's not the sole reason to buy a Mac, in my opinion.
But if you want to get into the details, the key feature that iTunes can hold over XPlay is the auto-sync. So it's not truly an iTunes replacement... yet.
OT: Now Mac OS X, that's the reason to buy a Mac.
I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
In fact, from their site, other then asking them to change the name from XPod, they don't seem to care, and they've known about it for a while:
December 10, 2001
Mediafour commits to demonstrating both XPlay and MacDrive in booth 4021 at Macworld Expo; exhibit runs January 8-11 at Moscone Center in San Francisco
November 30, 2001
Product name is changed to XPlay at urging of Apple
Free Mac Mini
His Web site (http://www.ephpod.com) has received over 37,000 visits to date
I bet that changes really quick
I can't imagine too many people were buying Macs because the iPod software was only written for the Mac; however I can see the huge numbers of Windows users who would love to get the iPod. With this software Apple wins two ways:
1. Windows people start buying the iPod, which increases the sales.
2. Apple doesn't have to support the moving target that is Windows, instead this other company can deal with all of the support headaches while Apple makes money hand over fist.
I'm having trouble seeing why Apple just didn't outsource this eariler, unless Jobs is trying to make the Windows users feel like the Mac users have for so many years with the "That looks really cool, too bad it's for the platform I don't run." envy.
I read the internet for the articles.
Hmmm, this reminds me of the two stories Wired did on Ipod-related piracy.
This is too cool for Apple to sue over.
So does this mean cygwin users have to watch out for the rm -rf /* bug?
That would be worth buying a firewire card (and an iPod) alone. C'mon, somebody, program it now! ;-)
Moe: "This baby can deep-fry a buffalo in two seconds."
Homer: "But I want one now!"
Reminder: find a new sig
and when firewire comes out with 2.0, it'll be approx 800Mbs/sec, or 1.4Gbs/sec. (I keep hearing conflicting statements)
Soundblaster audigy cards come with firewire on them. I've also heard that recent PCs come with firewire ports now.
-- Patience is a virtue, but impatience is an art.
Does anyone know if this will come pre-installed on the floor machines at Comp USA or will I have to install it myself?
So far as I can tell, it's basically just using the iPod in FireWire target mode, where the device is basically just a harddrive.
I would guess that XPlay doesn't allow you to update the iPod playlists in the same manner that you do on the Mac, which means that anything you do only works so long as the iPod is attached to the PC.
I think most people are assuming this will work identically to the integration between iTunes and iPod, which doesn't sound likely.
* As is generally the case, my opinions do not reflect those of my employer.
The SoundBlaster Audigy series have firewire ports. They look pretty sweet all-around.
room101 -- how much can you stand before they break you?
(they always break you eventually)
If I was apple, I would not sue them. Instead, I would integrate Mac ads
into every iPod sold from now onwards, and even bundle Mac stickers, t-shirts,
and extra Macism's.
People buy into new gadgets/hobbies, when the have freebies to sart with. Imagine
if the blonde prom queen, wears her shinny Mac t-shirt to school, or if Jack cool guy
puts a funny mac sticker on his bumper sticker?
Kids would copy like hell. Besides, the thing looks good and it has alot of "cool"
factor attached to it.
Um, that's pretty much entirely wrong.
IEEE1394 (AKA Firewire) is completely different from USB (and USB2). It comes standard on Macs and many other workstation type machines. USB is a different standard originally designed for low data rate peripherals (like keyboards, mice, and other such devices) by Intel. USB2 is a successor to USB that mostly just ups the bitrate to around IEEE1394 speeds.
I read the internet for the articles.
$115? I sure hope the camera was included in that. Generic 1394 cards can be had for under $30 (check NewEgg), and they're certainly not worth any more than that. They all use one of a couple of chipsets. Adding 1394 support to a PC is essentially a no-cost matter.
Case study: drive letters. If there was a dumber idea, a more useless vestigial limb, a generally lamer user interface paradigm, I don't know what it could be. Drive letters - Hah!
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
If Apple runs true-to-form, they will simply buy Xplay. Just like they bought iTunes from a third party and re-branded it. I predict that the product will be renamed "iTunes Lite for Windows", and will incorporate its own MP3 player component.
I really doubt that they have the basis for a suit here, and they know that. The interoperability layer here is not much more than a firewire disk driver.
Dog is my co-pilot.
Apple has already made a statement regarding XPlay. When this software was first introduced way back at the beginning of the beta cycle, they were calling it XPod. Apple sent them a letter regarding the name, and the changed it to XPlay. Apple hasn't said anything else, so I would assume they are find with it.
-> Capt Cosmic <-
I actually just received my 10 gig iPod today. I had ordered the 5 gig and returned it when I heard of the 10. At one point of time during the few times I called the customer representitives, I mentioned that I was debating whether to wait for Apple to perhaps release a windows version of the iPod or simply get this one.
The rep quickly told me about XPlay (which I had known about before anyway).
From what I read on some iPod websites, it's fairly common for them to refer PC customers to MediaFour and I believe they have had agreements with MediaFour in the past.
I also find it interesting that the iPod (or at least Apple media) has it's own section now.
Um and how is that different from what he said? Sure, "precursor" might be interpreted to mean the two are related or compatible, but if you just take the chronological of the world meaning, that's pretty alright. IIRC USB 2.0 is a wee bit faster than Firewire, so FW might be called a technical precursor as well, though I'm sure there's a Religious War fought over that.
Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
Namely EphPod in conjunction with either MacDrive or MacOpener. The links can be found in this comment I posted for another iPod story, but it applies more to this one.
/. post for the URL. He got it to work with v1.1 within a day or two of its release.. pretty sweet.
EphPod has really come a long way in a short period of time. The listserv runs pretty strong and there is a growing group of people helping this 1 developer find bugs and suggest improvements.
There's also a guy trying to get it to work on Linux... help him out.
I have had my iPod working great since February, and it has never touched a Mac.
BTW: There's also a Windows firmware updater. Check the link to my other
While I'm not sure if their was a lawsuit, they changed the name of xplay, it used to be called xpod. Mediafour's FAQ mentions this.
Beware, though, check compatibility lists if the Firewire port works with your device. IIRC there were some problems with devices drawing a lot of power that actually damaged your sound card ...
Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
Not at all difficult...the card will run you $40 or less, and Win2K & WinXP have built-in support for the more common FireWire chipsets. Hell, some computers have it built-in (not that that matters, since nobody here uses storebought computers). FireWire beats the snot out of USB for storage devices, and there are also FireWire webcams that deliver higher resolutions/framerates than USB can handle. I've used it for the past few months; it's good stuff.
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
Actually, FireWire does come with most PCs now. There are a ton of FireWire devices in the market now and 99.99% of all DV cameras come with FireWire... the need to start adopting FireWire in the wintel world is obviouse.
Moreover, IEEE1394b brings "FireWire" up to 800 and 1600megabits per second with support for 100foot optical cable this year. In 2003 it will be revised on more time to hit 3.2gigbits per second. (all backwards compatable of course).
USB 2 is nice, but it is quite easy to see that FireWire is a better solution. It's faster, it is starting to support longer cables, it has more devices for it, etc etc.
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
The iPod does not allow you to copy mp3s off of it, because they're in a hidden directory that you can't easily see, therefore you can't use it to copy music.
However, there are a ton of freeware apps that allow you to copy the mp3s off it, because they can read the hidden directory, and therefore it is Joe Shmoe's freeware app "stealing" the music, not the iPod.
Apparently, it's sufficient to outsmart the RIAA goons. Cool.
Apple generally does not litigate against third-party applications of their products. That would be silly--it would ultimately discourage software and hardware additions such as PCI cards and software which might augment the Mac OS or its hardware. A computer is a computer, and Apple learned long ago to allow other companies to play when the rewards work both for Apple and others.
Other products which have had third-party adaptations, although not necessarily with the tacit blessing from Apple that XPlay has includes:
--the original iMac (an early expansion slot was used for video cards, although Apple discouraged use of the port and discontinued it on later models)
--LinuxPPC, other operating systems
--USB floppy drives (when the iMac dispensed with them)
--The Outback (the first, but unofficial, Mac portable, which used the ROM from a Mac Plus)
--Basilisk (PC software which emulates an early Macintosh, ala Virtual PC for Macintosh)
Apple tends to keep to themselves unless someone appears to be directly violating their copyright, trademark, or intellectual property rights. Using the iPod is, well, using an iPod. Apple probably expects other companies to adapt it for their work. Saves Apple the trouble of manpower to create any software, but also releases them from supporting the iPod since a third-party (and non-Apple) product is in use, which may be a warranty violation.
Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
Apple has already taken legal action agfainst the makers of xPlay. It was originally going to be called "xPod," but Apple would have nothing with that. So they called out the dogs.
:)
However, they seem to be totally fine with the software itself. It sells more iPods and doesn't require Apple developers to do a damn thing
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
I have a coworker whose girlfriend gave him an iPod for Christmas, so he promptly went out and bought a new Titanium Powerbook.
He said his dad bought the card to go with a laptop, which would definitely put it in the $100 - $150 range.
Fully licensed blockchain psychiatrist
Well, does it?
It looks like, for all intents and purposes, that it doesn't.
I refuse to install WMP7 or WMP8, because I don't see them as offering anything (except to give microsoft more control over your system).
Any ideas?
I got the iPod and have been using it with my Dell Inspiron laptop for a while now. Very easy to use interface, and the software has improved a lot since the early preview releases. I simply drag and drop entire directories to the xplay songs directory in the iPod Drive and it copies them without a hitch. Way way faster than usb too. A few annoyances are that It doesn't copy them with the directory structure. Simply copies all the mp3s into one gigantic directory. It works through WMP well with a copy to portable device option and I believe that it supports playlists through WMP (I'm not sure since I use winamp). Another annoyance is that I believe the firmware for the system is updateable through the mac clients and xplay doesn't support that.
Some people have commented that nobody would buy a Mac jsut so they could use an iPod; that's insane. Consider, though: an iPod costs $400, and that's plenty insane right there. For only twice that much, you can buy a whole computer (500MHz G3 CRT iMac).
I just bought a CD MP3 player for $50 and it suits me just fine. If I had a bit more money lying around, I'd have gotten an iPod instead, to connect to my Mac.
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
There are several reasons why Apple won't think this is the greatest news.
1) People really are buying Macs just to use the iPod. I know that the slashdot crowd doesn't fit that mold, but if you go into an Apple store and actually ask one of the salespeople, you'll hear story after story about customers that heard about the iPod, and walked out with an iBook to go with it.
2) This might raise Apple's support costs substantially. Every call to Apple's support line costs money, even if the customer doesn't really deserve the support. Does someone who buys an iPod knowing Apple doesn't support using it via Windows deserve 90 days of toll free assistance from Apple if XPlay corrupts data on the iPod? Should Apple have to support callers who are having problems with their FireWire ports on their PC? These are just examples, but keep in mind that Apple exists because these are exactly the kinds of problems PC users have all the time. What should Apple tell the users who call support with these problems?
Now, I don't think Apple should sue anyone over this software. But this isn't the excellent news most people think it is. Apple will be making less money per iPod sold because of this. The iPod's reputation of no-brainer ease of use might be tarnished.
In the end, hopefully Apple will sell more units, make more money, and get positive exposure to new customers.
-pmb
I bought the iPod a month ago. I tried XPlay Preview 4 and 5 on Windows 2000, and encountered the "write-behind data lost" once in a while. In the end, I just gave up.
In the process, I have managed to download close to a hundred tracks to iPod. Some of them can't be played by XPlay. XPlay will simply wait for a few seconds, and then skip these tracks.
I think I'll probably end up buying the iMac...
Apple sues over violations of their copyright, trademark, and trade dress. As everyone here should be well aware by now if you don't actively defend them you lose them.
The ability to talk to a device of theirs isn't an issue. As to more iPods/fewer Macs who knows, I doubt Apple has a strong concern as they've supported the product and stand to make money whichever way. However it is sad when that kind of flamebait is gratuitously tacked onto a story.
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
The initial preview releases of XPlay were very basic and somewhat flaky, and could do little more than copy mp3s to the iPod. You couldn't even delete anything, let alone manage any playlists.
But Mediafour have been gradually adding functionality over the last few months, and the last release (preview 5) is easily the best yet - it's the first release that actually delivers most of the functionality you'd have on a Mac, albeit with a "Windows" spin.
I suspect the biggest problem currently delaying the full release of XPlay is the dreaded "write behind" error rather than any legal wranglings by Apple.
Basically there appears to be a bug in some (but not all) IEEE 1394 chipsets commonly used in notebook PCs/firewire cards which occasionally causes the trashing of the database containing the mp3 data. The upshot used to be that your iPod was rendered useless until a reformat - wiping all data from the device and requiring you to retransfer your music (hoping another "write behind" didn't happen again in the process).
Preview 5 handles these "write behinds" by providing a facility to rebuild the database, so you don't have to re-transfer your music. It's not pretty but hey, it works 8).
But overall, the product is shaping up to be pretty good. Whilst it's not quite as easy to use as iTunes (well, it *is* PC software!), it certainly fulfills its purpose when it comes to accessing the device under Windows, and I'll definitely be buying the release version when it arrives.
Read my online journal: http://chris.carline.org
My best friend, a long time Mac skeptic, just bought a new iMac, primarily to use an iPod. If there were no iPod, he would have bought a wintel box.
But it takes away yet another Mac-exclusive. Take enough of those away, and there's no reason to buy a Mac. People will just look at the PC and say to themselves, "This thing can do all the Mac does and more!". And this will also have a negative effect on the new iMac that Apple is pushing.
... I see... MicroSatan getting an inferiority complex over this... creating their own player that freezes after your fourth additional smartmedia card, demanding you call tech support because you made too many changes. Yay for us users... our rights are being whittled away in so many places, bring on more options!!
THey cant sue because the IPOD uses HFS+ for its filesystem, and this software allows windows to mount HFS+ simple!
keanmarine.com
I think ordinarily Apple would have sued, but after that comment that Eisner made about Apple's 'Rip Mix n Burn' campaign, I don't think Apple has any intention of doing anything to help either of these industries.
I tell you what, if Apple doesn't attack this product, I would seriously consider getting one. Anything to help them fight the SSSCA. (I can never remember the acronym of the new version. When I pronounce it it sounds like a kid learning how to talk.)
"Derp de derp."
I hope more cool games being released for Linux.
A question, can a person do program execution directly from iPod "drive"?
mac drive is the same thing as mac opener - or the billion other mac apps that allow your pc to see mac formatted media (cds, hd, ipods) why are people "amazed" you can do this - its not like someone did some crazy programming to get this to work - hell i bet if you plug in the ipod to a pc (via firewire) and use mac opener so your pc can see it you can reformat the ipod to a ntfs partition (of course the ipod is almost useless as anything other than a hardrive after than) does this make me a l33t h4x05? NO
Ave Molech Setting
Apple has given MediaFour their blessings to work on the application. Apple merely requested that they not call it XPod as they had intended, MediaFour complied and now calls it XPlay.
I have a website. It's about Macs.
> He said his dad bought the card to go with a laptop, which would definitely put it in the $100 - $150 range.
Not at all: $55 on sale, even regularly it was only $70. Of course, you can over-spend on anything if you choose the right brands (e.g. Belkin cables at most retailers: $40 for a 1394 cable? No problem!).
This product caught my eye at Macworld Expo SF in January (are you guys a little far behind at Slashdot submitting land?) Mostly it just scared me that they let an XP machine in Macworld Expo (the natives hate it) - but I thought it was good that if Apple wasn't gonna do it, someone would. That's what third party stuff is for, right?
Pudge. Get real. They aint gonna sue.
"Steve Jobs is still the CEO of Pixar. He has an interest in the MPAA just like Disney does. Maybe not to the same extent, but interest nevertheless."
You make a good point, but arguably Jobs had a lot to do with Mac becoming what it is today, a multimedia machine. Heck, they even want you doing video editing using Firewire on their laptops. Remember that commercial with the guy editing videos on a plane?
If this heavy handed legislation passes, Mac's entire product line could be in jeopardy. Even if Steve Jobs is completely cut from Apple, he still has quite a stake in the popularity of the machine.
I have a feeling he'd be tilted more towards Apple than the MPAA, in this case.
"Derp de derp."
- The iPod could be the last straw that breaks down the resistance of people who were thinking about getting a new Mac.
- Anecdotal evidence suggests that some people switching to the Mac get an iPod at the same time. While the iPod may not be the deciding factor, it's a cherry on top for the buyer (and $400 when you're already dropping $2,300 to $3,000 on a TiBook might not seem that much) and a nice bit of extra profit for Apple.
Again, speculation. Grain of salt, etc., etc.That gotta be a little inconvenient (and embarrassing) to come knocking on your Mac friends doors, asking if you can use their machine to reinstall your iPod system software, because your Windoze software nuked it.
You know what?
Uhm...IBM Firewire PCMCIA Cardbus card, complete with both types of Firewire cables, 25$.
Use the source Luke.[0]
[0]-You'll need to have accepted the terms of Apple's Public Source License and have registered for a free account.
All editorial writers ever do is come down from the hill after the battle is over and shoot the wounded.
From Mediafour website:
" What happened to the "XPod" name? Why did it change?
Apple Computer, a company with which Mediafour has always had an amicable relationship, expressed concern over our use of the name "XPod", due to its similarity to the "iPod" name. We chose to change the name to XPlay early on in the project."
read more, click here!
Yes Apple is aware of this, and I believe that Apple will benefit from XPlay.
USB 2 is nice, but it is quite easy to see that FireWire is a better solution. It's faster, it is starting to support longer cables, it has more devices for it, etc etc.
:)
Not knowing too much about what I can do with this FireWire port on the side of my computer, I have to ask...
What is the longes a firewire cable can be, and can I use repeaters? I'm thinking of buying a 40gb FW drive to accompany my iBook (For mp3s, games and large development files (Darwin source) that I don't need at school
God save our Queen, and Heaven bless The Maple Leaf Forever!
In short, Apple wants this. This means more than just Mac users will buy the iPod. Anyone who buys a Mac just to use the iPod is a friggin moron. Macs are great and so is the iPod but if I owned a PC already I sure as hell wouldn't buy another EXPENSIVE machine just to use it.
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
Actually, Sony's iLink interface is not quite firewire. iLink isn't powered, where firewire is, so I couldn't charge my iPod off my Viao.
God save our Queen, and Heaven bless The Maple Leaf Forever!
That reminds me of back in the day when sound cards came with IDE interfaces on them. Though I don't think Creative Labes expects you to attach a CD-ROM drive to it now :)
God save our Queen, and Heaven bless The Maple Leaf Forever!
Do you have a vaio desktop or laptop? I don't know, but I'd think powered firewire on a laptop would be rather stupid.. (at least if the laptop is running off batteries), but .. the desktop, I don't see the point in not including the power lines?
Just curious..
The iPod charges from the Firewire power pins and SONY (and other Wintel laptopvendors) removed the power pins in an all-time stupid move therefore rendering Firewire diificult to use for anything other than video cameras. Windows users will have to lug around an extra power supply for every device. I hope more vendors "get it" and start allowing the consolidation of all those "wall warts". Imagine charging you r PDA, Cell phone, camera and MP3 player from you laptop. Apple is truly innovative in that sense alone.
I've noticed a few people complaining that you can't update your Ipod's firmware with Xplay. If your looking to update your Ipod's firmware via windows, check out Ipodtronic's updater. They also have the source code for the updater available here, maybe someone can port it to Linux.
Still, WMP manages to be reasonably obnoxious in each of these areas. It's the best of a bad lot -- but that's a very bad lot. You'd think with all the money to be made off of digital media, somebody would put a little thought into their product. The only Windows media player I've encountered -- freeware, shareware, adware, or commercial -- that doesn't drive me to distraction is a modest little CD utility called WhopSee.
Oh well, at least its motivation to spend more time working with Linux. Has anyone gotten around to writing a sound driver that works around the infamous CS4232 "pop" bug?
Saying "Hey, can you guys change the name" and them saying "sure" doesn't sound much like calling out the dogs to me...
So Apple called out the puppies, pona?
Will I retire or break 10K?
I'd love an iPod, but I don't have a Mac, and I don't do Windows. The three machines in my flat all run Debian ..
I'm waiting for a Linux program that will allow me to copy tunes to an iPod - then I'll buy one, (and a firewire card to use with it, I guess ;).
My ideal MP3 player would be something similar to an ipod, but with an ethernet connection ion it. I can see why Apple went for the firewire, its much faster than USB - and its built in to their hardware, its just a shame that no Windows PC I've ever seen has had one.
Is ethernet so bad? 100Mbs transfer rate, and widely portable ..
Heh, it wouldn't be stupid if you had one of these. They wouldn't work if it was bus-unpowered. Oh, and it wouldn't be stupid if you could charge, say, your iPod on a plane in a sacrificial manner so you could listen to some tunes and hit the sack instead of just letting the battery go.
I will now redundantly add my name to the end of my post. You know, in case you forgot me or something.
Why?
I will now redundantly add my name to the end of my post. You know, in case you forgot me or something.
fuck off. I'm using an SGI ONYX 300 Series InfiniteReality3... not quite a personal computer.
--
Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things.
With Apple's "rise in production costs" that caused them to raise their imac prices, and the fact that they are probably still not covering their costs adequately, it might be BETTER for them to lose Mac sales and gain ipod sales!
Read jack phelps dot net
Our market just increased tenfold.
That just doesn't sound right. This is not bad for Apple. You know, depending on the status of FireWire for Linux, we should be seeing the nearest sda's as lovely white boxen...
My Karma was at 49, then they switched to words. All that work for nothing!
Will Apple sue? Better yet, make a lawsuit, but just get a large sum of money out of it, demand royalties on the software, and watch their iPod sales go up!
I have been waiting since Christmas for a usable version of XPlay. The dreaded write behind error is apparently the result of "low-level communications problems" between my iPod and my computer. While it never ruins my database I have been unable to copy ANYTHING onto my iPod. Yes, I've tried ephPod with the same results. I even bought a different firewire card in the hopes that would help. Until Mediafour comes up with something useful I have a pretty white paperweight on my hands.
I replied to someone about this the other day on the "Apple wants your input" article. http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=29971&cid=3219 401
I happened to install a FireWire card yesterday -- it was a piece of cake. Which must be first for new hardware!
will people really buy a mac just to use an ipod?
Yes, some people are on the fence and iPod helps push them over to the Apple side. For many first time computer buyers it doesn't really matter which way they go, something has to push them one way or another.
This is a conspiracy by the AI (Apple Illuminati.)
To wean the Windoz Weineez off of the Redmond teat, you have to start small. Like iPod sized. Fits in your hands and fills your ears so you can't hear Balmer as he prances around the stage like some hideous crack-crazed poofter.
Then you get them to expect devices and design that are way cool and have some really nice friendly plain and clean features.
Apple makes sexy hardware. TiBook, iBook, iMac, iPod and PowerPC boxes that you don't have to hide like you were ashamed of 'em. M$ manages to make monstrous mice.
(Oh yeah, and the XBox. Sorry Mr Gates, I know better. I have to put up with your crap software at work. No effin' way I'll have to reboot in the middle of a game. I'd buy a Play Station if I was going to buy anything. Like, I'm over 8 years old. Wrong audience.)
Apple has way cool OS X Aqua. M$ does windows.
If YOU had a choice men, would you stay with the clunker from the office or drive the sleek sports model? Would you rather have a fantasy date with the cleaning lady after a hard, sloppy day of cleaning toilets or the sexy babe in reception after a languid, lazy day of lookin' good...
If YOU had a choice women, would you stay with a cheap photocopier from the office or play with the latest color Xerox that does everything INCLUDING make the coffee? Would you rather have a fantasy date with the buggy, smelly, itchy elevator repairman in your building or step out with some Fabio look-alike with brains and a sense of humour?
There is Linux for services (not tacky, sleazy, natsy. buggy, pululating, virus-prone NT sevices either,) and OS X for the desktop.
Be afraid Mr. Gates. Be very afraid. Take a few billion and retire. Maybe go back to school and finish an engineering degree. Get a skill.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
That truly does sound like a lame move on the part of Sony et al, but there is some solace: The iPod includes a tiny little adaptor that attaches to the Firewire cable and allows you to charge it from a standard outlet. And third parties, such as Dr. Bott sell car-charger adaptors for around $25, as well as kits that allow you to play your iPod (and presumably, other music devices) through your car stereo. Cool!
There ain't no rules here; we're trying to accomplish something.
for all of you people jelous of the iPod...
Buy A Mac
thank you
I want 2D games back.
If the Windows box mounts the iPod, what do you get? More iPod's?
I'm going to buy one as soon as I can just to rip ALL my old CDs and maybe fit an mpg movie on there too.
Just to piss off the --AAs.
The non productive Luddite bastards.
Fuck'em where they breathe.
Send Jack Valenti to hide in a cave with Mullah Omar and Osama.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
4 years of waiting with baited breath for the articles that say "obscure hardware item X now works under Linux -- the Windows software has been succesfully reverse engineered, and now we have 25% functionality in Linux" --- and now we have taken a step back -- We are waiting with baited breath for a piece of hardware to be usable under Windows....Hell what is the chance that this will ever be usable under Linux??
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
Apple has attempted to protect its trademarks... whether you like it or not that's how US law works, if you don't protect it you lose it (look at the debacle M$ got itself into in the Lindows suit).
But seriously believing Apple would sue over the right to use your hardware however you like? Would you expect Apple to sue someone for installing LinuxPPC on their Mac, or using (or allowing someone to use) an Apple Cinema Display with their PC? Of course not.
Apple has nothing against the work MediaFour is doing and besides asking them to change the product name (see above... trademarks etc) have given them their blessing. As others have noted already and I can affirm, Apple actually suggests the product when asked about using the iPod with a PC (this from an employee at an Apple store). Of course they're not going to advertise it and try to offer a better solution on the Mac to encourage people to switch to the platform, but if you're sold on Linux but want a cool MP3 player, they're not going to complain.
'Nuf said. Never liked drive letters (Stupid, stupid concept.)
Even in CP/M I was using volume names on my Osborne 1. (Okay, it was an ugly kludge with the diskette volume label, but it worked the same as the RSTS/E on the PDP-11 and VMS on the 360 that I used to pay the bills.)
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Tracy buys an iPod and a Dell desktop with Windows XP. She uses XPlay to get them working together. Tracy is happy.
Tracy loves how easy and intuitive the iPod is. The Dell and Windows annoy her though by just not flowing right.
An Outlook worm emails the private pictures of her and her boyfriends vacation to Hedonism II to her entire address book, including her grandparents, bookclub, and pastor. Tracy's Dell then explodes in a glorious ball of fire.
All that's left is the iPod. The angelic iPod. Tracy has to buy a new computer. Who do _you_ think Tracy will buy a computer from?
That and it was the only thing available in our fairly small town in a hurry. I know for next time, though :)
There should be a moratorium on the use of the apostrophe.
Max V.
NeXTMail/MIME Mail welcome
Wow, 160? That's WAY too much! I could back up DVDS :)
Anyway, $350 is too much. I'm looking at about $300CDN
God save our Queen, and Heaven bless The Maple Leaf Forever!
While checking out the iPod in the local CompUSA the salesdroid was nice enough to give me the URL for EphPod and I splurged and bought it. After a week of being frustrated with EphPod while also *loving* the design and user interface of the iPod I headed back to CompUSA.
Mac OS X intrigued me... I'd owned a cheap Quadra back in the early 90's and couldn't stand the lack of a command prompt. OS X seemed to address a lot of the earlier issues I had with Macs, so I walked out of there with a new 933Mhz G4 and a 17" studio display.
So, yes, people are buying Macs due to the iPod. (that's what happens when you have yearly bonus money burning a hole in your pocket...)
--Rob
Good old Windows Exploder (typo?) always there to be annoying and ultimately circumvented. That must be the biggest thing Microsoft has done to insult people's intelligence.
Calm down, it's *only* ones and zeroes.
Isn't iLink simply the 4 pin version of firewire? They're both IEE 1394 but marketed under differnt names. Same protocols and all obviously, excpet the standard 6 pin transmits power as you ponted out your iLink doesn't
The fact that it is not compatable with anything but the imac was one, I bought a Archos jukebox on the 20th, and the other things that got me were it was $100 cheaper ($308, this include shipping), it works on linux (also windows and mac) it has 20Gb drive in it (ya right like I realy need all that space I only have 7Gb of mp3), sure it took me 2 hours to upload all my mp3's but I don't see that as such a bad thing, I just pluged it in, issued the following command "cp -v -R /home/mpop/mp3/* /mnt/jukebox" and in 2 hours I had it fully loaded. Also the jukebox was able to read and use my play lists from xmms (and no I did not use the \ dir dilimator I use / in them, but the jukebox still understode them) So I am happy with the jukebox. And the size of it, it hight and width are just about the same size as a palm VIIx and about 1.5 as deap as the same palm VIIx (yes this is just a bit bigger then an ipod, but not to much bigger). My think that for most linux people (and maybe windows people too) the jukebox might be better.
Clean out your slashdot account, you're fired.
Come on, not all MS products are shit. The production X-Box doesn't crash; or if it does it happens so rarely that the people who love to jump on MS whenever anything remotely bad happens to them would have been screaming about this like crazy.
You don't have to love them or their policies but you can't just make up facts because it's easier than thinking.
What did you eat today? http://www.atetoday.com/
This is totally old news. I bought an iPod right when it was first released, and have used it on my PC with xplay (beta) since day one.
Apple knows about Xplay, and has since that time. People freely discuss it on the apple support page... not likely that anyone will be sued.
http://www.apple.com/firewire
Apple invented FireWire in the mid-90s and shepherded it to become the established cross-platform industry standard IEEE 1394. FireWire is a high-speed serial input/output technology for connecting digital devices such as digital camcorders and cameras to desktop and portable computers. Widely adopted by digital peripheral companies such as Sony, Canon, JVC and Kodak, FireWire has become the established industry standard for both consumers and professionals.
The FireWire advantage can be summed up in three words: speed, speed, and more speed--at 400Mbps, it has more than 30 times the bandwidth of USB, which makes it the perfect choice for high-speed storage and serious video capture. Here are some other benefits:
Supports up to 63 devices using cable lengths up to 14 feet.
Hot-pluggable--you don't have to turn off a scanner or CD drive to connect or disconnect it, and you don't need to restart your computer.
FireWire cables are a snap to connect--you don't need device IDs, jumpers, DIP switches, screws, latches or terminators.
zork% mv *.asp
283 files eaten by a grue
Yes, that has always seemed very strange to me, but it was always nice.
;-)
But you never know, they now have external firewire CD-ROMs now. It's like going full circle.
room101 -- how much can you stand before they break you?
(they always break you eventually)
Why ask why? Why not? They just do.
They used to have IDE ports on them a long time ago, they have game ports. This isn't really that much different.
It may not make a whole lot of sense, but back when 4 IDE channels were rare (or expensive) on a motherboard, it was a nice way to hook up your first CD-ROM.
room101 -- how much can you stand before they break you?
(they always break you eventually)
You're actually believing what the sales people tell you in an APPLE store? Since when were the floor monkeys at CompUSA and Fry's an authoritative source on the time of day, let alone what people are buying things for? An salesman will tell you that the product his is pushing will cure cancer if it will get you to buy.
Lee
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
Don't know if anyone will see this post as I caught this thread late in the game, but I though I'd share my experiences with using XPlay to access the iPod in Windows.
A good friend of mine got an iPod as a corporate gift (he works for a major market radio station) and gave it to me since he doesn't own a Mac. Now, I don't have a Mac either, but as a tech-head and a digital audio guy I figured I could probably do something with it. I actually did consider getting a new iMac, but I'd heard about XPod (now XPlay) and figured I could check it out if I got a firewire port somehow.
Some background: I have been running Windows XP for about six months now on my homebuilt Athlon PC (T-Bird 1.33). I have been very happy with the performance and stability of XP, but the Turtle Beach Montego II Home Studio sound card I have used for years is only supported under 9x. I could get basic analog audio working by disabling ACPI in the BIOS, but with lousy driver support and no digital I/O, I realized it was time to upgrade.
I thought about getting a semi-pro audio card such as those from Terratec, M-Audio, and Event, but since I also use my PC for games and home theater, I ended up getting the Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum Ex. The last Creative card I had was a SB AWE32 many years ago, and though I wouldn't touch the Live! series (especially since my mobo uses a Via chipset), the Audigy is totally killer. Now, just as posts here have mentioned the possibility of people buying a Mac to complement the iPod, a big part of the reason I picked the Audigy was for the built-in Firewire port.
Okay, time to get to the goods. I downloaded and installed a beta of XPlay and hooked up my virgin iPod. To my surprise, Windows immediately recognized the iPod as an external drive and mapped it through explorer. XPlay seemed to suggest that I should control the iPod primarily through Windows Media Player, but I have generally stayed away from WMP since they introduced v7. I have never been fond of its music library management, especially since it likes to screw with your music files even if you don't want it to--no ID3v2 tags for me, thank you. And the idea that it needs to lock up 30MB of RAM just to play one song is pretty ludicrous. A quick check revealed that WMP8 did indeed see the iPod as a portable device, but I wasn't going to use it to transfer any files.
My mp3 collection is up to about 30GB now (all ripped myself using EAC with LAME), so it was a little difficult to pick out which five gigs of tunes I wanted to take with me. Going through Windows Explorer, I ctrl-clicked the folders of my favorite albums and dragged them into the \Music folder on the mapped iPod drive. Transfer was fast but not blazing, taking about 25 minutes to copy everything over the firewire. Using the Explorer interface meant that no playlists were transferred, but the Artist/Album interface on the iPod is so good that I don't really need them anyway. I suppose that I'm not really using XPlay to its fullest, but at least WMP doesn't muck up my mp3s in the process. I'd love to see plug-in support for the iPod in my player of choice, JRiver's Media Jukebox.
Reactions: While I'm not using any of XPlay's features beyond the support for HFS, I don't really need it to. I'd much rather control things myself anyway, just doing drag 'n drops instead of becoming a slave to the software interface. I also have a first gen Diamond Rio (parallel port connection!) and the original Rio Volt, and the included software has never wowed me enough to use it regularly. Actually, that's why I liked the Volt most of all, since I could just burn my own CD's and be done with it.
The iPod is definitely best of all though--the small size makes it much more convenient for the car or carrying in your pocket, and the rechargeable lithium-ion battery is just awesome. I use it in the car every day (about an hour-round trip) and only have to charge it every other week. The playback interface is the best of any I have seen--very easy to control with one hand and the white backlight works great in the dark. It does seem to skip sometimes, though it seems it's actually blank parts in the mp3 file since it happens in the same part of a song every time. My guess is that there was a blip of some sort during the firewire transfer, since the mp3s play back perfect on the computer.
Overall, XPlay does what it advertises. I can use the iPod on my PC, which would not be possible otherwise. However, there are some other features I'd like to see, such as the ability to upgrade the iPod firmware and synchronization support for programs other than WMP. Combining the huge installed base of the PC/Windows platform with the style and reliabilty of Apple hardware is a winning situation for everyone. I think that MediaFour has done just what Apple had hoped, allowing them to sell more units without getting into the headache of supporting the PC platform. And personally, I am thrilled to be an Apple user again, since my first home computer was a IIGS. Who knows, I still might pick up an iMac after all...
- Leigh
What I should have said was nothing.
No... not completely. The basic assumptions that were built into USB and FireWire at the beginning are still true when the conversation changes to USB 2.
USB is CPU centric. That means that all traffic over the "bus" (its not technically a bus) has to go to the CPU, this changes the signaling significantly. Because it was designed with devices such as mice in mind, which wil have small bursts of data at random times, it was also made so that no device can grab above a certain amount of the bandwidth, but devices do have to duke it out to get up to that amount. This is fine for mice, but sucks for drives and video applications. They are bandwidth choked because of protocol limitations, not bandwidth.
FireWire on the other hand is peer-to-peer, more often than not you have a CPU, but it is not a special case. In fact the protocol is setup so that you can transfer information into a computer without the processor doing much work at all (direct to memory dumps). The peer-to-peer aspect does add a little overhead, but not nearly as much as the USB 1.x legacy in USB 2. FireWire also supports dedicated streams so that a device can get gaurenteed latency and bandwidth. No contention for bandwidth, you either get it or you don't. There is some set aside for asyncronus transfer (the sort of signaling that mice do), so this is not a big issue, but it is rarely used because asynch devices are cheaper with a USB 1.x port...
So... USB 2.0 is faster according to the overview specs... but FireWire 400 is faster in real life for most of the applications that actually need that sort of speed.
Places where USB 2.0 is better: USB Speaker (except mLAN/HAVI devices... those send compressed signals), Printers (not much difference here), and possibly ethernet adaptors (cheaper?... I am reaching here).
Places where FireWire 400 is better: Hard Drives (bus powered!), Video, CamCorders, computer-to-computer links (requires major fudging in USB), high end scanners (the ones that can push a lot of information very fast), RAID systems.
Places where there is little difference: CD/CD-R/CD-RW (except bus-powered devices.. there FireWire wins hands down), USB-style web-cams (there is enough power on either bus), etc...
Probably had more to do with the proximity to 'XP' than to 'iPod.'
Well, more like people are not buying Macs JUST to use the iPod.
However it is a great sales tool to sell a Mac: Has brought in a lot of folks to look at them and been a significent factor tipping folks to get a Mac in a lot of cases.
Sometimes its been folks who wouldn't have considered a Mac before but this intrigued them and then they liked what they saw. Face it, when someone sits next to you and pulls out an iPod it becomes a great bit of viral marketing for a Mac.
Other times its been owners of older Macs (who are notoriously loath to upgrade) popping by a store to check out this wonder-device and after 15 minutes surrounded by shiny new machines deciding yeah, it's finally time to get a new model.
And finally sometimes it is just an impulse buy. The same as some folks will one day walk by a display of new TVs and say "Ya know what - I want one" and come out 20 minutes later with a couple grand 36" blahblahblah model there are folks who see an iPod, and a Mac, and say what the heck, I want a Digital Hub with the trimmings.
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
I said I'm waiting for the 20GB iPod before I'll by one. And I'm sticking by that. In the same day that Toshiba announced (news.com) a 10GB drive they also annouced a 20GB drive. Where is my 20GB iPod? Would it be just too expensive? I know the nomad 3 is coming but it's still a little too big. A 20GB iPod would really be cool, but it seems they don't want me to have it...
"Where quality is like a dead stinking rat - you just can't miss it."