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PVR For Linux
amix writes "After two years of hard work the final 1.0 of VDR (Video Disk Recorder) has been released under the GPL.
VDR is Linux based VCR software for digital TV cards (DVB, the Linux driver supports cable, sat and terrestrial cards), the new TV standard in Europe and also in use at several places in the United States. VDR is a fully networkable digital video recorder (implemented as daemon on port 2001) with optional MP3, DVD and 'MPlayer' based video-codec replay plus much more. It features "timeshifting", an incredibly comfortable OSD, functions to make editing/cleaning-up the streams easier and is controllable by LIRC, keyboard, telnet/ssh, WWW (cgi) or dedicated utilities. It can be used natively on a TV, with standard v4l tools or the KVDR KDE frontend.. You have an old PC? Add one (up to four) DVB card and you got a cheap multimedia center. Here are the screenshots. " A very impressive project indeed.
... until this gets canned by mpaa/riaa/tv industry because it permits easy sharing of shows?
Unfortunately, in the US, there is no card that works for DirecTV or Dish like that Siemens card. :(
But does it support BetaMax & LaserDisc?
I did just pay $49 for this 4 head VCR over at Circuit City...
finally, a great build yourself TIVO setup. i didn't see if there's a project to build a public database of showtimes/channels for people to get. shouldn't be that challenging.
i'm sure a decent setup HDD, video card, and processor is near the price of a tivo, but this lends it self to much much more.
i can't see any DMCA implications, as the intent of the software isn't to distribute copies (that have been unencrypted via breaking a digital encryption method) to other users.
Anyone know of a bake-off between one of these and a TiVo or a Replay?
Image quality, integration, "intelligence", listings, UI, ease-of-use, remote-control support, etc?
Frankly I want a no-brainer to handle my TV recording; not to have to put together a perl script just to record "Naked Chef".
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
Did anybody manage to mirror the screenshots before they got /.ed?
Here's google's cache of the page since it looks slashdotted.
... "Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the w
Sounds like I either need to start porting, or install Leenooks!
Does anyone know if this application support BTTV cards? If not, then it's not much use for us North Americans.
There are TONS of DVB channels watchable. But you need a large Satellite Dish. In Europe it's mainly Ku sattellite band.
I wonder if anyone has thought to put some of these features onto their tivo or something. If it would be as easy as a package install of a mp3 player and some other stuff why not use the hardware that was created to do this stuff. Im sure you could even smb to another larger server for stuff and have a web cgi and whatnot.
The more I think about it the more I like it. I wish I had half the knowledge it would take to pull something like that off.
once again just my ramblings.
If I were only smart enough to accomplish the things I dream about.. Or maybe too dumb to care.
How long 'til the site recovers from being slashdotted so I can actually get it?
Looks like they have really thought this one through. There are several really cool features which push the DVR market forward and have been long overdue
- What's on next? button
- The ability to create an edited version of a recording
- Directories to hold recordings
- How much space is left on my hard drive indicator
- And I don't even want to get into network functionality.
Note to Tivo, please add these functionalites to the next system upgrade
With this sort of project in mind, I've been searching for a desktop-style case for a PC that would blend in well with a stack of modern stereo components. So far I've come up empty, and the case this guy is using is no longer being sold.
Anyone know of a good source for A/V-component-style PC cases?
Oh, you mean like this?
http://www.tivo.com/linux/index.html
Why would they have to, they are selling their proprietary software on linux. they might have to release their linux source code, but really, thats not a big deal as that doesnt give away anything important. heres a stock linux kernel with standard software.
Their software and drivers are not GPL. They only make use of other GPL software to run their software.
The TiVo works better. Looks like it belongs in a A/V rack. Has a much better interface. More features. Integrates amazingly well in almost any setup.
So far all these do-it-yourself PVR "solutions" have fallen way short of being a TiVo killer. Anyone that actively uses a TiVo can tell you that.
I managed to get a peek at the site before it got slashdotted. I only got to view one page but here it is on my own server:
http://www.jezner.com/slashdot/vdrs.html
They will not you silly. It is being done in a civilized country (in terms of copyright laws that is).
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
Unfortunately, the page is slashdotted, so I can only comment on what the writeup said. This looks like what Snapstream did, and I'm thrilled to see this. I've been at the mercy of windoze box, and the only format snapstream outputs is .wmv, which really stinks in that I'm tied to MS media player. So, if this thing will put out good .mpgs or something like that (whatever is the best, open video format), I'll gladly embrace it. I'm currently recording about six hours of stuff per day and burning it onto CD (can't watch nearly that much, and no, I have not yet been diagnosed as obsessive-compulsive). I'd particularly like it if I could burn the output files as VCDs, so they weren't tied to my computer (though my computer is my TV at the moment).
Now if only their web server would recover...
according to the site I see 3 words that grab my attention as interesting (and also threatening). ON-DISK EDITING. For one, i think this will be a great feature, however I can see where MPAA or broadcasters could see this in a not-so-brilliant light. Download it soon fellas, before the MAN gets it.
This is a great project.. a fully open sourced PVR. If I lived in Europe, I would be all over it.
For use in the U.S. a Digital TV receiver card such as the HiPix or the AccessDTV.
Depending on how the hardware interfaces with the control software, it would be excellent if it could be made to work with U.S. cards.
From a description on the site:
PC Hardware
The PC hardware I have chosen to build the Video Disk Recorder consists of the following components:
Motherboard ASUS P5A
BIOS version 1.009
HDD 37.5GB IBM DPTA353750 U-DMA-66 9ms (running with on-board EIDE
controller, so I'm not using the full U-DMA-66 speed)
AMD K6-II 450MHz
128 MB RAM
simple VGA card (no X running on this system)
Longshine LCS-8038TX network card (using the RTL8139)
3.5" floppy drive
3 Siemens PCI-DVB Sat (digital satellite receiver card)
Return the bells of Balangiga.
One of the things which makes the Linux VDR project slightly easier (?) to implement is that the DVB card they're using as a tuner outputs MPEG-2 to the system. Thus, no messy (and cpu intensive) video input and number crunching. This Digital VCR product from Creative has an MPEG-2 encoder chip on-board, and outputs MPEG-2. It can either use it's own tuner OR it will control your cable box/sat receiver via IR commands. And it's only $99. That's not a typo. I'm not claiming it's output will be as good as a Tivo/DVB/whatever, but at 640x480 resolution, it's a step in the right direction.
And it's no longer vaporware -- I picked one up at CompUSA last week (in NYC - 38th & 5th location).
Now, who's up for tearing this thing apart and creating some linux drivers?!
> Mein Gott! Unsere Site ist Slashdotted!! gewesen!
That be "Unsere Site ist geslashdottet worden!"
This is exactly what I've been looking for for my massive media closet project.
:-)
The idea is to build a tivo-like device for rich people with terrabytes of storage, so you don't have to delete shows when you are done if you don't want to. It would be attached to 200 DVD and 200 CD changers. When the user buys a new CD or DVD, they pop it in the media closet.
Each individual TV would have a dumb terminal machine that connects to the closet server via bluetooth networking. Video would be streamed on demand from the server closet to any one of the remote terminals.
The remote control would be a Palm V, also with bluetooth networking. A unified interface would control access to all media including recorded TV shows, all DVDs and all CDs.
The audio component would be similar to what many people have in their homes currently, with speaker wire running through the walls.
Now, anyone have about $50000 venture capitol for me so I can build the prototype?
std::disclaimer<std::legalese> sig=new std::disclaimer; sig->dump(); delete sig;
To put things in a bit of perspective: This is an awesome achievement and these guys should be congratulated many times over for the achievement. It is *way* cool!!
However, it is *not* competition to TiVo outside of the handful of geeks that may choose to do it themselves over buying the off the shelf solution provided by TiVo and ReplayTV.
First, the Linux VDR based solution is not a no-brainer installation. Not by any stretch of the imagination. You have to deal with obtaining the correct hardware configuration, install all the software correctly, etc,etc,etc. Even if someone were to pick it up and sell it as an off the shelf, preconfigured unit it will still have significant maintenance issues above and beyond, say, a TiVo.
This is not a criticism-- just a recognition that the market for a TiVo and the primary market for this software is very different.
Most of the folks I know with a TiVo do not have the knowledge or the time to deal with such a solution.
Frankly, even with the knowledge an awful lot of folks aren't going to have the time or aren't going to see blowing the time on building out such a thing as being a useful investment.
Personally, I would rather pay $500 to TiVo and be done with it than have to screw around with getting all of the different random bits inline to make the Linux VDR solution work!
Finally, the TiVo provides a level of seamless integration that will not be achieved in the GPL VDR solution for a long time. A lot of the channel and scheduling information isn't available via public channels without doing a boatload of parsing and screen scraping. Even then, it'll change over time and break often. TiVo and Replay have the distinct advantage of having paid the big $$$ for data feeds that provide this data in a machine readable format.
Paying the $$$ to TiVo/Replay buys a lot more than just some software and hardware. It buys a service, a data feed, and a company to back the whole package. For a lot of the market, all of that must be included before something can be considered competition!
Except it doesn't support your card. This project supports a VERY limited set of hardware which is also 99% useless if you happen to live in the US.
.technomancer
VDR is for DVB cards only. DVB is the European standard for digital satellite, cable and terrestial
reception. The drivers for DVB cards can be found at www.linuxtv.org.
There are mainly two types of cards available paired with the respective tuner for DVB-S, DVB-C or DVB-T. One is a full featured card containing an MPEG2 decoder and the other a budget card which only delivers the transport stream from the respective transmitter. The latter are very good for Internet via sat, cable or terrestial sources because they can deliver a full transport stream.
The DVB standard provides an electonic program guide (EPG) which allows VDR to get information about the programming and transmission times.
So it differs from Tivo because it doesn't need to encode the programs and gets the programming information directly from the respective providers. Replay is done via the MPEG decoders of the full featured cards, so you always need one to
have the full benefit of VDR, it also uses the TV out of the DVB card so no graphics card is required. Of course, you can use a software decoder to decode the transport stream that comes from the card, but that is not yet implemented in VDR.
There is also the possibility to add a common interface (CI) to the DVB card, so that you can use a common acces module (CAM) to decode encrypted channels using the smartcard you get from your provider.
***Quis custodiet ipsos custodes***
Does anyone know if this siemens cards have smart card conditional access capabilities?
I am thinking about chanel plus(Spain, France, etc...) access cards.
When his defense asked, "Which computer has Jon Johansen trespassed upon?" the answer was: "His own."
Once upon a time it was the Video toaster, now who says it can't be used for skin.... uh err home security?
DMCA? Naw, they just want to see what you do in the privacy of your home....as has been found out about what's
popular with the anti crime cameras in London.
Or maybe I'm all mixed up. Is the device/program only usable for broadcasted channels?
While maybe european broadcasters and media companies not really like this, i don't know of any european country where a software like this could face legal problems. VCR manufactures uin europe never faced legal problems like the BetaMax Case.
Jan
Of course, VDR won't have any problems with the DMCA because it is a German project and there are very few DVB transmissions in the US. Still, it could be adapted to the ATSC standard provided there will be any cards for PC and information for the drivers available. This seems to be highly doubtful since there is currently talk about preventing any unauthorized recording of ATSC transmissions. I think there is more information about that on the EFF's web site.
The driver for the Linux cards support NTSC and there have been reports by people on the linux-dvb mailing list at www.linuxtv.org that they work for the few US DVB satellite transmissions. Although it seems to be hard to get the hardware in the US.
***Quis custodiet ipsos custodes***
The Siemens card was the first on the market. The card was designed by Technotrend for Siemens and Hauppauge also picked it up.
Siemens were the only ones who helped with the developement of the drivers, for which we are very thankful.
Hauppauge never really helped with the developement.
Neither with the DVB cards nor with any of their other TV cards. That's why there are no drivers for the Hauppauge PVR yet, although the kfir MPEG encoder chip is already supported in another card. But the Hauppauge design has to be reversed engineered first.
***Quis custodiet ipsos custodes***
But hardware vendors could make pre-installed low-cost, no-subscription-required boxes. Of, they could in fact offer a subscription to their own service. This lowers the cost of entry and time-to-market for competing with TiVo and ReplayTV. I suspect, however, that a number of bogus patents stand in the way.
Just to be clear, what I'm about to talk about is a PVR, not a DVR, so the signal turns analog and then gets compressed again along the way. So this particular solution may be a little off topic, at first:
.ASF files.
Ever hear of snapstream? (http://www.snapstream.com) If you have a TV Tuner card, this program turns your computer into a Tivo-Like device allowing one to capture TV Shows as
One of the features this software has is it can control your Satellite Dish or Digital Cable via Infa Red. It has a little cable or something connected to an IR emitter so it can set the channel for you. Theoretically, with this device, and IR controlled device could be tuned.
The problem is, as I mentioned above, is that you're going analog and then going digital again with the associated Degredation. (To be fair, I don't think it'd be bad.)
I imagine somebody COULD find a way to do a similar thing with Linux. If they were to take their satellite reciever apart, figure out which cable has the digital data (if that's possible... I'm not claiming to know what really goes on inside of these devices and imagine I'll be told it's not possible), and funnel it off to the computer, it wouldn't be that much bigger of step to add infa-red capability too.
Anybody wanna donate their reciever to experiment on? Heh
"Derp de derp."
If there were a USB (or preferably Firewire) based DVB solution, this could make Linux on the Playstation 2 all that much more scrumptious...
This sig is xenon coated, and will glow red when in the presence of aliens
This will not kill the tivo, or be something you'll be able to setup to replace a tivo.
First of all, afaik, satellite transmissions are already mpeg encoded, so all this thing does is dump the mpeg to the hd, no need to encode. That's why he's able to list an AMD k6-450 in the system requirements. I'm sure it could get by on less if it also had a comparable mpeg decoder.
The tivo must encode to mpeg using hardware. I know of no hardware that can do this in Linux. (If you know of any, please let me know). The tivo also has a dedicated mpeg decoder. This is how the Tivo is able to get by using a 50Mhz PPC processor.
So, as soon as there's a tuner card with on board mpeg encoding (In Linux), and the availability of TV listings that can be downloaded for free, and is brain dead simple to setup, I don't see the tivo going away any time soon.
This is necessary...life, feeds on life...
I've always thought Tivo should do that.. Sell their software, modified to run on a standard Linux X86 box with a few supported TV tuner boards. The customer pays a certain amount for the software to cover support costs and then Tivo charges for listings just the way they do now.
It wouldn't replace the regular Tivo, it'd be more of a thing for the tech savvy early adopter type. Like you say, the ability to have virtually unlimited drive space (as much as I want to add) and multiple cards for simultaneous recording would truly be killer.
The only reason I can think of they haven't moved in that direction is that they don't want to piss of Sony and Philips, their hardware licensees. At some point though, Tivo will be embedded in so many different set top boxes that it won't matter anymore.
All movements for social change begin as missions, evolve into businesses, and end up as rackets.
Wouldn't Gnunet make a dandy medium for spreading TV Listing updates around? One person enters a listing item, and the whole TV coverage area can get the update.
:v)
Vik
Ok, that's nice. So if it's DVB, that should work with the cards and VDR. But if it is encrypted than you also need a CI and CAM and that maybe hard to get. Maybe the people I heard from were talking about free to air (FTA) transmissions.
***Quis custodiet ipsos custodes***
Ordinary DVB in Europe isn't encrypted at all is it? If that is so, perhaps our legislators should be made aware of this as an example that broadcast television really doesn't need copy controls. That'd be sweet if we US folk could get raw MPEG-2 streams of all our programming. Let the broadcasters pay by commercial time as par tradition and get rid of this privacy invading subscription crap.
Agreed.. This is also the reason I can't use anything like Tivo, because it doesn't support high-definition. :(
Aside from the bandwidth needed for an HDTV stream versus a regular one, what are the technical hurdles keeping this from happening?
It like the remote control board the best. I assume it can be easily programed to flash 12:00am all the time.
SD
âoeWho knew something as harmless as willful ignorance could end up having real consequences?â
> C'mon, that's a seperable prefix verb if I ever saw one!
Not in German, since slash and dot by themselves have no German meaning. Even in English, a site doesn't get dotted in a slash sort of way, it gets slashdotted.
and I've got a Tivo. Several of my friends have them too, they're still a niche product over here, but catching on. The main (only?) UK satellite provider Sky also have their own PVR product called Sky+, which is much like the DirecTivos, except with their own (inferior) software. That's the point I think, it's things in the software, like Season Passes & Wishlists, which make the product. I'm not saying this OSS solution lacks in that department, I haven't tried it, but every PC based PVR I've seen so far has fallen way short of Tivo for functionality.
---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"
Unless your grandma can build one of these, I wouldn't count on them replacing TiVos or Replays anytime soon.
Why does "your grandma" always get hauled out as the poster-child for technical dipshits in a effort to prove that the learning curve for some new technology is too high?
Why not just argue, "The learning curve for this new technology is too high" and give your reasons why? There's really no need to slander someone else's grandma.
Is anyone else besides me getting tired of this "grandma argument"?
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
With an infrared port plus a few moments of your time you've got the magic to send macros to anything you want - including a dish controller. :)
Cause that is just how I remember school.
I got yelled at by my math teacher, when we were learning how to multiply (which I had known how to do for a couple of years). I got a simple equation, something like 8 x 27.
I solved it like this:
8x30=240
-
8x3=24
-------------
8x27=216
This is _still_ how I do most multiplications in my head. Do I have to mention, that my kindergarten teacher said something like "DO YOU WANT TO READ TO THE CLASS!!!?!?!", when I mentioned, that she read a word out wrong or something (can't remember that incident, but I've heard it from my parents and a parent to one of the kids I went to school with).
No, I doubt I'm Mensa material, but that doesn't mean, that I should have been given the same mundane tasks as average kids. Society wants to help out the "weak" kids; here's a clue-by-four: Intelligent kids are also weak kids.
We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
So, lets say TV Guide were to allow subscribers to download directly into their PVR in lieu of a paper copy. They win because they no longer have to mail out issues, those PC based PVRs become as good as or even better than Tivo. Tivo, having their whole business model built around screwing people out of $10+ per month, goes bust.
Considering how likely it is that TV Guide or someone else who already has reliable listings WILL partner with a PVR vendor I certainly wouldn't want to invest in a Tivo right now.
Democrat delenda est