Neo-Geo : The Game Console That Won't Die

xonox writes: "Perhaps you heard about the Neo-Geo game console when it came out some 12 years ago. Most people remember it because it was very expensive. Well, after 12 years, it is still alive and getting brand new commercial games for it. It may be a bit of a niche item but still. The Neo-Geo console was essentially the arcade hardware of the same name inside a prettier case. 3 games have been produced this year for the arcade hardware and two of those 3 have been released for the home console. If you think 2d games are cool, then you should check out http://www.neo-geo.com for more information about one of the greatest 2d platforms of all time. I'm picking playability over 3d anyday :)"

Comments

Look out Xbox...

[Frank of Earth]

... because you have some competition from Neo-Geo now!

"3 games have been produced this year for the arcade hardware and two of those 3 have been released for the home console"

Two words...

[ChiPHeaD23]

METAL SLUG

Ok, more words... great little 2d platformer series. Get MAME and play it if you're bored :P

Emulators

[DarkZero]

I might as well be the first to mention that most Neo-Geo games are supported by Mame and my personal emulator of choice, Kawaks. If you'd like to try the newer Neo Geo games before you consider the high price road, you should download those emulators and then try searching for some ROMs in various websites, IRC channels, and P2P programs. My personal game recommendations are "Garou: Mark of the Wolves", "The King of Fighters 2000", and any of the Metal Slug games, especially "Metal Slug X".

Oh, and if you see any of the PlayStation ports of Neo Geo games in stores, don't bother with them. They're buggy, bastardized versions of the games with at least twenty to sixty times the amount of loading time (and no, that's not an exaggeration).

Re:Emulators

[Schnapple]

Yes, but there are two things about MAME emulation of Neo Geo titles:

1. MAME has an internal "ethics" clause forcing them to wait two years before emulating a game, so if Metal Slug 4 is released this year then it will be 2004 before MAME emulates it. Granted, if MS4 never hits the arcade, then perhaps MAME will never emulate it (since it's an arcade emulator).

2. Neo Geo games, at least at one point in time, employed heavy encryption. As a result, it takes quite a while to dump the cartridges in any working form. Metal Slug 3 was released in 2000 but it was mid-2001 before working dumps showed up, and of course 2002 before MAME would support it.

Granted, Kawaks supported it right away and the old NeoRageX doesn't have to have predefined games, so as soon as a game gets dumped you can usually play it right away, but it's not like a "on the Internet before it's in stores ala AOTC" situation.

Re:Emulators

[gl4ss]

modifying the code to support that new game isn't all that hard.. so getting them to play on your mame-only cabinet isn't that hard.

when i go to arcades i pay for playing the game with the kewl arcade style(DOH!) hardware rather than for the sake of the game itself..(the game does matter tho). i gotta build that cab someday..

Re:Emulators

[MrFredBloggs]

Yeah, but you can get the source and disable the disability, apparantly.

"Granted, if MS4 never hits the arcade, then perhaps MAME will never emulate it (since it's an arcade emulator)."

I imagine if this is the case, it`ll get emulated BEFORE the 2 years are up, as it wont affect anyones profits and get them sued.

Re:Emulators

[Anonymous Coward]

Neo Geo games were not encrypted, you are thinking of the Capcom System 2

Re:Emulators

[imr]

this link is for you:
here

Re:Emulators

[dasunt]

My emu of choice (win32) is NeoRageX, a nice little Neo Geo emulator that is fast enough to be playable on a 266mhz machine. In addition, it seems to handle sound better then MAME.

OTOH, the poor bastards who think emulation leads to piracy and thus lack of sales are deluding themselves - I find that emulation works more like a library, as soon as you find something you like, you want a hardcopy for yourself. But that's me, and probably there are a lot of people just like me who are "collectors". And then there are a lot of people who are cheap, or have a casual interest, and only collect roms because they are "free". The sales lost to the emus are more then made up by the sales made because of the emus. However, I do hold to the notion that old emus lead to lost sales of new consoles, since new games seem to be repackaged crap with shiny bits included.

Btw, the NeoGeo was also an arcade game. Standardized controls across the game, and it was easy to swap out games in cabinets.

Re:Emulators

[Brandeissansoo]

Roms are nearly impossible to find, in my experience, on p2p and the web now. MAME's rom archive was shut down by some bastard copyright holder...

Re:Emulators

[DarkZero]

There are the collectors, the pirates, and then there's the third group, the people in between, which I'm a part of. I'd buy a Neo Geo and some games for it, but I honestly can't see paying several hundred dollars so that I can play the same games, minus internet multiplayer, slower loading times, and instant swappability. I'm all for supporting the artists and such, but not when it costs both money and the entertainment value of the product. That's just a little too much for me.

The same goes for the ports of Neo Geo games. I bought The King of Fighters '99 for the PlayStation so that at least a little bit of my money would get to SNK/Playmore. I'm now the fine owner of a worthless frisbee with "The King of Fighters '99" printed on one side of it.

Re:Emulators

[phong3d]

I've seen a number of video rental stores that occasionally offload some of their inventory. I've picked up some NES and Genesis games at decent prices (and in surprisingly good quality) there, and I've seen the odd Neo-Geo rig as well, usually going for $500 or so, but as a package with two controllers and 10-12 games. A good deal, but I've never come across one when I'm ready to drop that kind of green. Ah well, Ebay for me...

Re:Emulators

[Anonymous Coward]

My emu of choice (win32) is NeoRageX [swipnet.se], a nice little Neo Geo emulator that is fast enough to be playable on a 266mhz machine. In addition, it seems to handle sound better then MAME.

NeoRageX use is probably not the emulator to use for anyone with a reasonably modern machine. It's no longer supported, doesn't play the newer (encrypted) dumps without the use of nasty hacks and doesn't offer a lot of the nice features Kawaks or Nebula have. Unless one's machine is *really* old, the latter emulators are typically a much better choice.

Re:Emulators

[Anonymous Coward]

You're an idiot. Go read any one of tens of websites on the subject, including Project Zero or CPS2Shock (who also deal with Neogeo encryption).

Re:Emulators

[Naikrovek]

Metal Slug 4 is out. I've played it in Sydney.

Its different (only a bit) to MS3, and better i think - the first level is reminiscent of MS1 where you're constantly ducking (can't get away with just jumping) and dodging everything. The POW's help YOU now, giving you rides on stolen motorcycles, and trucks.

Very cool game, and yes it is out and if you look on ebay, you can get a cartridge yourself.

Re:Emulators

[DarkZero]

Yeah, and just about everyone has their money on that bastard copyright holder being Nintendo. The entire thing had their style written all over it.

Re:Emulators

[zudo]

Slower loading times???

The neo geo was a cartridge based machine.

Re:Emulators

[56ker]

Doesn't legally emulating a platform mean you have to have access to the ROMs (ie own the thing you're emulating) - eliminating the need to actually emulate it when you can get a far better experience from actually using it?

Re:Emulators

[serial frame]

I'm rather interested in taking that copy off of your hands. By the way, are you Dark Zero from k5? If so, I'll be glad to ask questions outside of Slashdot.

Re:Emulators

[BoRoG]

Then use NeoRagex I don't think they will wait to emulate games.

Re:Emulators

[Cato the Elder]

Doesn't legally emulating a platform mean you have to have access to the ROMs (ie own the thing you're emulating) - eliminating the need to actually emulate it when you can get a far better experience from actually using it?

Having legal access to the ROMs is different from having a playable system. For instance, say you have an old Rygar arcade machine where one of the buttons is broken, it smells like cat piss, and the monitor goes out after you play for five minutes. After you burn a hole in your arm messing with the CRT, you might decide you are better off running Rygar on a MAME box with a joystick, buttons etc hooked up to it. Perfectly legal, since you own the ROMs, and with a much reduced chance of scorched flesh.

(note: may be drawn from personal experience)

Re:Emulators

[Anonymous Coward]

You fucking tool. Stop whoring, you whore, you and everyone else knows the answer to that question. Every one fucking knows the answer. It does not make you insightful to ask about it. It makes you an asswipe.

Fuck you.

Re:Emulators

[56ker]

1) I've never heard of a Rygar. 2) All the old machines I have (even ones bought in '87) are still in working order. Maybe I'm just lucky.

Re:Emulators

[Cato the Elder]

Rygar is an awesome arcade game. My dorm in college owned it, meaning it got a lot of drunken abuse. Plus, there was the whole "cat living in it for two weeks" which probably didn't help its survival either.

Re:Emulators

[DarkZero]

As I've said in other posts, I've never actually seen a Neo Geo in action in real life, but judging from other cartridge-based systems, a fast computer is actually faster for Neo Geo games because you don't even have to wait for the machine to boot up. However, that was just a small footnote among the much larger issues of internet multiplayer and instant swappability. It's so small that I probably shouldn't have even mentioned it.

Still expensive

[Brento]

Most people remember it because it was very expensive.

And most people still do, because they still go for more than a Playstation 2. There are games for these things that go for more than an Playstation 2, for crying out loud.

Re:Still expensive

[Magila]

That has more to do with the fact that the systems have been out of production for many years now making it hard to even find one for sale. And the games are produced in very limited quantities, especialy US versions.

Re:Still expensive

[Brento]

That has more to do with the fact that the systems have been out of production for many years now making it hard to even find one for sale.

You mean like the working Commodore 64's and Atari 2600's that you can routinely pick up on Ebay for under fifty bucks? That argument doesn't hold water.

Re:Still expensive

[hiryuu]

You mean like the working Commodore 64's and Atari 2600's that you can routinely pick up on Ebay for under fifty bucks? That argument doesn't hold water.

It does when you consider that (out of production for a while) with the scope of the original supply and the current level of demand for them. Certain Sega Saturn games (such as Radiant Silvergun or the US version of Panzer Dragoon Saga) have undergone the same type of phenomenon.

Re:Still expensive

[Anonymous Coward]

Playstations 2

ah ha ha , like "passersby", not "passerbys"

Re:Still expensive

[ImaLamer]

I remember looking at an EB advert for the Neo-Geo, man... hundreds of dollars. I though that was too much then and it still is now... (xbox, ps2, ...)

Funny though, you are right. One of my favorite games of all time is Capcom vs SNK. A fighting game for Dreamcast, which is based on Capcom and SNK's (Neo-Geo's company) fighting games fighting it out in arcades so much.

Re:Still expensive

[Rakarra]

Sorry, but even when the console was new and in all the stores, the games were still super-expensive, often $200, which was just insane for a single game.

I've always wanted one... .

[The Real Chrisjc]

I've always thought that the neo-geo was special, if memory serves me, they are very quick and flexiable.

Emulator anyone?

More info on Neo Geo

[fabiolrs]

Maybe many of you never heard about this wonderfull console, I got some links here on my bookmarks so you all can have a look at it (and play it on emulators):

Neo Geo Temple

Some Roms

Emulation

Re:More info on Neo Geo

[Anonymous Coward]

Since when did /. start supporting piracy? How about some links to the warcraft 3 beta while we're at it.

Re:More info on Neo Geo

[Anonymous Coward]

It's Slashdot. They support free speech and being a place for people to express themeselves.

Be they great people with intelligent thoughts or third-rate ass-clowns is not up for Slashdot or you to decide.

Calm down, relax, and, most of all, shut the fuck up.

Re:More info on Neo Geo

[Anonymous Coward]

The IDSA and SPA have just been informed

Re:More info on Neo Geo

[fabiolrs]

fyi, emulation is not piracy when youre using LEGAL ROMS...

Vague memories

[ringbarer]

Didn't this console come with a smart-card type thing that allowed you to transfer game stats to and from the arcade machines?

And while we're at it, whatever happened to the PC Engine?

Re:Vague memories

[Soulslayer]

Yes this correct. The Arcade systems had slots under the joystick table for a card where you could store profiles and stats. If I remember correctly the cards were around $150 when new.

One of my friends was still using his a few years ago. If he is lurking I am sure TaliesinWI will provide more information. :)

Re:Vague memories

[bonzoesc]

Most DDR (Dance Dance Revolution - best arcade game ever) machines also have slots for standard PSX memory cards so you can load the custom steps you make at home on your Playstation to the arcade so you can impress the bitches (by bitches I mean your glow-stick raver friends).

Didn't they just recently kill this system?

[cdtoad]

Didn't I see something about how SNK was discontinuing opperations? And why are these games SOOOOOOOOOOO expensive? It's no like Street Fighter is that new!

Re:Didn't they just recently kill this system?

[randomErr]

On the SNK issue: Sengoku 3 is the last game they will be publishing. Also remember the SNK isn't NEO-GEO, although they are the main publisher for the system.

On the price of the games: The games come out with 90-600 meg cartrages. It's nothing for those cart to come out with 20-150 individual burned chips.

That a lot silicon compared to the data stored on a CD-ROM or now a days a DVD-ROM.

Re:Didn't they just recently kill this system?

[Anonymous Coward]

Uhm, the largest game that I'm aware of is KOF 2k1 which is 892 megaBITs not megaBYTES. Do the math and that's 111.5 megaBYTES.

Re:Didn't they just recently kill this system?

[Anonymous Coward]

He didn't say megabytes either.

Re:Didn't they just recently kill this system?

[Anonymous Coward]

Snk died, but now there is brezza soft which is some of the original snk dev teams, playmore picked up the rights to most neo-geo games i think. They are now distributing the neo-geo arcade hardware and games.

-xonox

Imagine

[Dutchy Wutchy]

Imagine a Beowulf cluster of those!

Oh wait, bad timing.

/me shuns Dutchy Wutchy

fond farewell

[tps12]

I think anyone who came of age in the late 80's and early 90's (colloquially known as "the 80's") will testify to the wonder and mystique of the so-called Neo Geo.

Hours spent playing games.

This was the architecture that paved the way for the 32-bit and better machines and consoles that today are commonplace. In addition to the introduction of parallelism and coprocessing into games, Neo Geo raised the bar for graphics and presaged the whole "multimedia" craze hyped by the media and ignored by consumers.

Modern PC games pale by comparison.

Yet I think they will rise again.

Re:fond farewell

[Anonymous Coward]

i must have been really poor or something, but paying a few hundred bucks for a game kinda put the neo geo out of my reach. still now that i am old enough to work for the money, paying a few hundred dollars for a game still seems, um.. stupid?

Re:fond farewell

[moonbender]

I know people who've spent that much and more for EverQuest. :P

This is somewhat ridiculous...

[Qwerpafw]

More people probably play neo geo games via emulator than own the console...

I mean, its like saying that Windows 3.1 is an amzingly viable OS right now just because some programs run in it/are used in XP under the compatibility layer.

It seems that "usability" and "playability" is always the argument brought up by die-hard fanatical supporters of dying/dead platforms. And I would know, as a mac user, that this doesn't buy crap in the real world. If the hardware, and more importantly, the games, are crap, then no-one will think even once about buying it. And right now, games with 3d are what people want. I just feel like laughing at whoever would be willing to pay the price to actually buy one of these things, especially when the dreamcast is ultra-cheap. (Now there is a decent 'dead' console. Don't give me that 80's crap)

Of course, I could give you a great deal on an old Amiga, if you're interested ;-)

Re:This is somewhat ridiculous...

[Dimensio]

It is a matter of taste. Some people prefer the simplistic action of a 2D fighter like Samurai Shodown. The simplistic hard-core 2D action of the Metal Slug series is also a fun escapist hobby; I certainly have enjoyed many hours of that.

Yes, it's not a "popular" genre, that's why it's called a niche market.

Re:This is somewhat ridiculous...

[beleg777]

And right now, games with 3d are what people want.

So people ask for 2D games and you respond by saying that people don't want 2D, they want 3D. You work in advertising or marketing?

"I'm picking playability over 3d anyday :)"

[DarkDust]

That's why my girl-friend and me were playing SNES and Genesis games the last weeks :-) Toe Jam and Earl rules ;-) Besides, is it just me or are there really fewer types of games released today ? I mean, have you seen any scrolling shooters like R-Type lately, or adventures ? Even jump'n'runs seem to be rare today :-( Damn 3D-philia !

Re:"I'm picking playability over 3d anyday :)"

[Anonymous Coward]

Gradius III/IV were released for the PS2, as well as Silpheed.

R-Type Delta and Square's (!) Einhander were stellar PSX shooters that came out in the last few years.

Re:"I'm picking playability over 3d anyday :)"

[DarkDust]

Gradius III/IV were released for the PS2, as well as Silpheed. R-Type Delta and Square's (!) Einhander were stellar PSX shooters that came out in the last few years.

I didn't know that, thnx a lot :-)

Re:"I'm picking playability over 3d anyday :)"

[MonkeyDluffy]

We have a playstation 2 with over a dozen games, but my 10 year old son frequently likes to play the games included with KDE instead.

Remember, chess is only a 2-D game :).

-mdl

Re:"I'm picking playability over 3d anyday :)"

[imr]

It's true about girl-friends as well.

Re:"I'm picking playability over 3d anyday :)"

[Judge_Fire]

"I'm picking playability over 3d anyday :)"

Get both, get a GameCube.

Highly addictive and very playable 3D- titles, like Super Monkey Ball, prove the point. Can't wait for Mario and Zelda... Miyamoto- san knows playability like no other.

J

Re:"I'm picking playability over 3d anyday :)"

[NETHED]

Today's games are too hard! How many buttons are on a PS2 controller?

to shoot, hold this button, while pushing this other button every second, while moving the left analog directional joystick around counter clockwise Too much depth in the game to make the casual gamer want to learn.
I like SNES. Great system, cheap games, hours of playability. ZERO learning curve.
And if the game doesn't want to work, you just BLOW on the cartrige real hard. Now THATS interactivity!

Re:"I'm picking playability over 3d anyday :)"

[peter_gzowski]

I mean, have you seen any scrolling shooters like R-Type lately, or adventures?

The last great scrolling shooter that I remember is Einhander for the PSX. As far as adventures, I think Castlevania: Symphony of the Night was supposed to be one of the great 2D adventure games (I never got into it much), and Klanoa was a great jump n' run for the PSX (haven't tried Klanoa 2 for PS2, but I hear it's also good). Tomba 1 & 2 are other good examples. I know that this is all Playstation-biased, but that's all I've owned for the last 3 years or so.

Re:"I'm picking playability over 3d anyday :)"

[Nivekk]

Well if you want revamped 2D classic gaming you could do worse than check out Jeff 'Yak' Minter's revived Llamasoft offerings.

He's started up again after the Nuon debacle and has given make-overs to Deflex and Hover Bovver. Addictiveness is back with the classic Yakly psychadelic embellishments :) He's currently at http://www.llamasoft.co.uk - well worth a visit.

Re:"I'm picking playability over 3d anyday :)"

[beleg777]

I think the technology is actually having a detrimental effect on games now. It's become such a big deal to make a game that games feel like they should be bigger and better. There isn't enough time for variety when it takes so long and so much effort to make one good game.

Of couse the 3D thing probably doesn't help anyway. If game makers would relalize that games don't have to have 3d cameras to be popular it would help things a lot.

Although if you want a next gen game that still has some roots in the good old days check out ICO for the PS2, or MDK2 for any system (I've only played it on PC, but I've seen it on consoles). Both have the feel of an older style game, but updated.

Re:"I'm picking playability over 3d anyday :)"

[nick_davison]

Re:"I'm picking playability over 3d anyday :)"

It's true about girl-friends as well.

Playability in 2D wins over less interaction in 3D for girlfriends as well? Well, I guess that explains Playboy's success then.

Re:"I'm picking playability over 3d anyday :)"

[Anonymous Coward]

Eh, doesn't mean much really. I pick Super Mario World over Super Mario 64 any day of the week. I didn't find Super Monkey ball all that fun either.
It's my opinion anyway, just as you have yours.

Re:"I'm picking playability over 3d anyday :)"

[Graspee_Leemoor]

When Defender came out, people complained that it had too many buttons. In fact, one good thing about today's games, especially if you grew up with video games, is that the days of needing ultra-fast reactions are gone.

Also, be careful not to confuse the complexity of the interface (like how many buttons there are and what they do) with the complexity of the game.

For example, DropShip (PS2) has a fairly complex interface but the game is simple, compared to the board game "Go" which has a very simple interface but which is notoriously difficult to master.

graspee

Re:"I'm picking playability over 3d anyday :)"

[imr]

on the contrary, i tried to mean that volume isn't all, and in fact isn't much if there's not a good spirit to make it enjoyable.

Re:"I'm picking playability over 3d anyday :)"

[Junks Jerzey]

I agree in sentiment, but not about the Neo-Geo. When it was released, its library of games was the most uinspired and derivative available. Tired of having played a hundred beat-em-ups on the NES and Genesis? Well, get a Neo-Geo and play some more uninspired rehashes of them. History has been kind to the Neo-Geo because, well, people tend to forget history.

The reason there aren't many games like R-Type any more is the same reason there aren't many games like Pac-Man any more. The genere was so overdone that it burned itself to a crisp. It didn't need to be that way of course, but developers spent too much time pandering to the cliches of the genre, so every game tended to have that Techno-Organic Look (tm), and involve the same kind of powerups and bosses and so on. Bleah. (I'll admit that much of your feeling about these games depends on your background. Even by 1991, there were more R-Type style shooters for the Genesis than anyone could possibly stand. And it took years for those kind of games to finally hit it big on the PC, with creatively stillborn entries like Raptor and Tyrian. But PC owners who shunned consoles thought they were the greatest games ever.)

Re:"I'm picking playability over 3d anyday :)"

[Kris_J]

It's not specifically the 2D graphics, it's the fact that you're interacting with the game on a 2D screen with typically at best 2.5 degrees of control (2 analogue axies plus shoulder buttons). Here's something I wrote on the subject recently:

So I finally got around to playing two Saturn games I bought a while ago. First up I found Nights into Dreams -- a brand new, never used, 3D controller bundle. It wasn't cheap, but it was new. It's a fun game, I'm really gaining some respect for Sonic Team. Particularly enjoyable is that while it's a 3D graphical environment, it only requires 2D of interaction - up, down, forward, back. Makes it playable. Similarly, the other game, Panzer Dragoon is, at heart, a forward-scrolling shooter in the style of Space Harrier or Afterburner, but with a full 3D environment. You're always moving forward so you only have to control up, down, left and right. You can turn to the side and behind you, but it's playable because you don't have to judge that impossible third degree of freedom. In contrast, Sonic Adventure is as much of a pain as Mario 64. I can never land a jump where I want and I'm always falling off the edge of stuff or going in the wrong direction. Only Gauntlet Legends has provided me with a fun 3D 3rd-person world, and that's because you can't jump, can't fall off the edge of stuff and the camera is pre-programed based on your location on the map, not on the direction you're facing or moving.

Re:"I'm picking playability over 3d anyday :)"

[Ziviyr]

And if the game doesn't want to work, you just BLOW on the cartrige real hard.

Ya ain't serposed ta do that sonny!

Neo Geo has never been popular at home

[ObviousGuy]

For reasons including its exorbitant price, the Neo Geo has never been a big hit with the home market.

It has some pretty impressive hardware, which makes it a popular machine for arcades. With the processing power of today's machines, it isn't an exaggeration to say that Neo Geo was ahead of its time.

Neo-Geo? Pah!

[Anonymous Coward]

I've got a PC Engine and NES, why would I want a Neo-Geo?

Playabilty...

[n4zgl]

...that elusive x-factor that makes a great game greater. Anyone remember Gauntlet? Hours of few running round a seemingly never ending series of levels. Much later, when Dark Legacy, Gauntlet II came out as new improved 3D, a lot of that rambo effect of decimating hordes of ghosts seemed lost.

Re:Playabilty...

[mccalli]

Anyone remember Gauntlet?

I do. I remember it to be a fantastic game, and spent hours and hours playing it. Sadly, the harsh reality of MAME emulation means that I can play today what I simply remembered before. It can be unforgiving experience - loading it up now I find the magic has gone.

However, your general point on playability is well taken and I entirely agree. How about Jumping Jack Flash on the Spectrum? Mono graphics, a stick figure and some 2-pixel high black lines with gaps. A fabulous game that I still play today.

Cheers,
Ian

Re:Playabilty...

[Anonymous Coward]

I've had the same feeling, but don't worry. It will eventually come to you.

One day, or night, you'll be sitting at a desk, pulling your hair out.

The next thing you know, you're defeating the vile Red Falcon and saving the universe, at the cost of your job.

Congratulations! You're a hero.

Re:Playabilty...

[Jon Peterson]

Actually, that's true of most games. None of the old C64 games that used to enthrall me are worth 5 minutes of my time now. Stuff like Elite that seemed incredible in 1985 is just utterly dull now.

But, some games are starting to last the distance now. I still play PC games that are up to 5 years old, and not even the graphics look particularly dated. Apart from games that just hurl workload at the 3D accelerator, there's little advancement now that taxes computer technology that much from generation to generation. Check out the minimum PC specs on the side of games these days - they just aren't changing much.

Re:Playabilty...

[rkischuk]

Anyone remember Gauntlet?

I do. I remember it to be a fantastic game, and spent hours and hours playing it. Sadly, the harsh reality of MAME emulation means that I can play today what I simply remembered before. It can be unforgiving experience - loading it up now I find the magic has gone.

Don't let your experience on a PC screen, playing by yourself, ruin the memory. When I was in college, about 20 of us pooled our money and picked up a full Gauntlet arcade unit ($400). It was STILL fun for hours. It was always more of a social experience, especially as one of the first 4 player games. The level design and sheer number of levels kept it interesting, as does the constant struggle for power-ups. It's pure genious as a quarter muncher, too - there's no part of the game that's so tough that a few quarters can't get you through.

If you can find this game and a few friends, I think you'll realize your memories are accurate, and that Gauntlet beats most if not all of today's arcade games hands down.

What an asshole move

[Anonymous Coward]

Linking neo-geo.com from /.? Gimme a break. If you ever visited the site you would know it is a community-based site with boards/chat/etc. I have a feeling many will be pissed at /. for this inconsiderate /.ing.

Re:Neo-Geo? Pah!

[DarkDust]

Simply because there are great games avaible for the Neo-Geo, especially if you like fighting games :-) I've never owned one but a friend of mine has, and the Neo-Geo is a really cool console with really cool games.

gosh......

[the_2nd_coming]

I remember back when this was new. I had a super nintendo, and I thought:

"wow neo-geo is a 32 bit system!!!! that has got to be the pinical of gaming technology!!!! it will never get better than that!!!"

little did I know......it didn't :-) (that was a joke)

Re:gosh......

[jallen02]

Neo Geo had the same main processors as a sega Genesis (A 68000 and a Z80). IIRC it just had a much, much, better graphics chipset.

Jeremy

Re:gosh......

[Rolo Tomasi]

I think the biggest (only?) reason for the superior graphics was that NEO-GEO modules are much bigger (physically and logically) than those of any ROM-based console ever. E.g. Metal Slug 3 has 708 Mb. 708 Mb, IN ROM CHIPS! Compare that to the puny 16 Mb Genesis or SNES Modules.

Re:gosh......

[Anonymous Coward]

One of the problems with porting games from Neo Geo to Playstation is ram. IIRC the neogeo had like 16-20mb Dram. Where the PSX had only 2mb of usable system ram. Therefore heavy compression that takes a lot of CPU power had to be instated. As well as modifying the sprites to work better with the playstation's graphics system for scaling and such.

Re:gosh......

[proj_2501]

Yep, unlike other consoles, they never, ever used data compression in their carts.

Re:gosh......

[Anonymous Coward]

708 megabit
that translates to 708/8 = ~90 megabytes

all console games were measured with megabits, not megabytes...

16 megabits = 4 megabytes

-xonox

Re:gosh......

[Anonymous Coward]

the neo-geo hardware has 64kbytes of ram, all the data is read directly from the rom, this explains why the psx ports were somewhat cut-down.

-xonox

Re:gosh......

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually 16 megabits = 2 megabytes.

Niche platforms.

[saintlupus]

If you think 2d games are cool, then you should check out http://www.neo-geo.com for more information about one of the greatest 2d platforms of all time.

Check out the Sega Saturn too -- they're pretty close to free in the used game shops around here, and absolutely kick ass for 2d gaming.

Street Fighter Alpha 2, for example. [drool]

--saint

Re:Niche platforms.

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, give me a break. Saturn is arguably better than PSX, let alone the Jaguar. Radiant Silvergun and Panzer Dragoon Saga alone are better than any other 32 bit games ever put out.

Re:Niche platforms.

[Anonymous Coward]

Amen, brother. Saturn is one of the most underappreciated systems out there, and my favorite by far.

Re:Niche platforms.

[Anonymous Coward]

Like it or not, it is a 64-bit console.

holy shit I feel old

[CrazyJim0]

I remember when Neo Geo just hit the arcades and I got a neogeo card for Xmas. 12 years is a long time for one of the last "new" things I remember in the arcades.

Maybe I've been gaming a bit too much :P

Mod Parent Down

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, let's encourage piracy of games for a game system that's on it's last legs.

Great way to keep it alive people.

Re:Mod Parent Down

[DarkZero]

Who the Hell would buy a ridiculously expensive system with even more ridiculously expensive games without even seeing it in action first? People can't try out a Neo Geo in the local Electronics Boutique, nor can they take it for a spin over a friend's house. The only way to take the NG for a test drive is to pirate the games for a few hours.

Re:Mod Parent Down

[Anonymous Coward]

Then, what can you tell me about the Dreamcast versions of Last Blade 2, Garou: Mark of the Wolves and King of Fighters 2000? And what about the incoming King of Fighters 2001 port for the PC?

Neo Geo was not supposed to be a console system. It is an Arcade system that then got a home version for those who wanted it.

----
Jabel D. Morales - VMan of Mana

Some guy who is lazy to register.

Re:Mod Parent Down

[Anonymous Coward]

You may not be able to try out the game at EB, but you can still find them in arcades!

There are still quite a few arcades that have the multi-video system cabinets for you to try them out on.

So stop deluding yourself that its your _right_ to download that ROM since you are just trying it out.

Arcade operators don't have this right, and neither do you.

Re:Mod Parent Down

[Tofuhead]

Actually, that's not the only way. One other is to get thyself down to a decent arcade and drop some quarters into THEIR Neo Geos. Gameplay on Neo Geo arcade and home cartridge games is identical.

< tofuhead >

Re:Mod Parent Down

[DarkZero]

What can I tell you about them? Well, I can tell you that all of the Dreamcast and PlayStation ports are absolute shit, and that everyone I know that owns them absolutely hates them. They have excessive loading times, various glitches, and some versions of them even have huge problems such as the sound being delayed by at least half a second. I certainly wouldn't recommend them, especially for demo purposes.

As for the PC ports, the information is sketchy on those, but as far as anyone in the MAME community can tell, those are actually just MAME (not a homebrew emulator, but ACTUAL MAME) packaged with a Neo Geo ROM of the company's choice, which breaks the MAME license. Like I said, the information is currently sketchy on those, but if they really are abusing a free work for their own profit against the wishes of the people that created it, it makes me wonder why anyone should care about abusing their works for non-profit personal entertainment.

And that's all fine and good about the Neo Geo not being intended as a console system, but I don't see your point. It IS available as a console system, its arcade version isn't found in most arcades, and there's no way for most people to get a demonstration of it and its games. That statement didn't even have anything to do with what I was saying.

Re:Mod Parent Down

[AndyChrist]

Anyplace with more than 2 or 3 arcade machines is likely to have a Neo Geo. Granted there are large parts of the country without arcades, or possibly ANY coin-op games (what happened to video games in 7-11? I used to play Bubble Bobble several times a week there), but most people can probably find a Neo Geo to play.

That being said, I know of one instance where piracy definitely didn't hurt the neo geo, and may have helped a little.

For about 2 years, every morning before class I'd play neo geo games at the university. I eventually got into Metal Slug 2 and X. I got GOOD. I could play up to an hour on one quarter (playing for score takes a while) Eventually I downloaded these and started playing them with Neo Rage X (Which I prefer to MAME). So soon I knew where EVERY secret, EVERY bonus was. I played through using save states to try and figure out the theoretical maximum score on Metal Slug 2. And every day at school I'd keep plugging away on it trying to get closer and closer to it. One credit only.

There was a sort of cult-of-metal-slug on campus. One time a bunch of the other people who played it (but whose initials I had long since pushed out of the top 10, to fill it entirely with my own) saw me playing, dodging bullets in the 4th stage area with the helicopters and the soldiers coming from either side. Staring. I don't know why they thought that part was so tough.

Anyhow, I am a total dork, and I played more legit, because I honed my skills illegally.

Re:Mod Parent Down

[DarkZero]

There are still quite a few arcades that have the multi-video system cabinets for you to try them out on.

I've been visiting arcades since I was about four and I live in an area that has much more popular arcades than most other places in the country. Beyond the occasional rotting machine with only Samurai Shodown 1 loaded on it in Wal-Mart, I have never seen an active MVS machine outside of pictures on web pages. Maybe these things are popular on the West Coast, and I know they're popular in Asia, but they certainly aren't within a few hundred miles of where I live. And according to most of the posts I've seen in the Neo Geo boards, I'm not alone.

Memory Card

[Soulslayer]

I believe this is the card. It worked in both the home system and the Neo Geo MVS Cabinets (basically the home system in an arcade cabinet).

Samurai Shodown

[realmolo]

The Samurai Shodown games are still the best fighting games ever. Especially parts 1 & 2. Street Fighter,Virtua Fighter, and Tekken are for pussies.

Re:Samurai Shodown

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn right, and not just because SS had an actual non-testosterone-supplement-taking chick.

Mmm, Cham Cham.

*laugh*

Plus, Jubei had no shortage of Chicken McNuggets, let me tell you.

I swear to god, SS is the only reason I ever downloaded Mame. For me, I disliked almost all fighting games. Steet Fighter was.. too cartoonish. Virtua Fighter, well, everyone was just ugly and all polygonic. Tekken? Well, I loved the background music for Tekken 2, but that's about it.

There was, and is, but one series that had it all - good graphics, blood, stellar gameplay, bitchin' music, and people who weren't plain ugly.

Re:Samurai Shodown

[Herr_Nightingale]

Fatal Fury series pokes a dick in Shodown any day. :P

Street Fighter is NOT for Pussies, and anyways Killer Instinct kicks ass on all of these with the finishing moves/combos.

Re:Samurai Shodown

[Anonymous Coward]

SS was decent, but in no way does it beat Street Fighter 2 or Virtua Fighter 2. Those two games had more depth than any other fighting game of their time. The later SF2 sequels just turned into button mashing spaz-fests though..

The most irritating aspect of SS was that stupid POW meter. You wail on the opponent with like 6 hits in a row and all of a sudden his pow meter goes high, he hits you twice, and you're dead. WTF??

Re:Neo-Geo? Pah!

[Anonymous Coward]

Or I could use MAME & sell the PC Engine on EBay?

Why it failed

[Chardish]

Yeah, the performance was great, but a $1,000 system with games that cost $100 a piece was not going to be picked up by the gaming public in an era where the primary game players were under 18 at the time. Also the hardware was ahead of the time, but Neo-Geo emulates fine on my secondary PC (333 mhZ K6-2 with only 64 MB of RAM).

Bottom line? Stick with a PS2 or GameCube, you get more bang for your buck. (But less geek appeal...)

-Evan

Re:Why it failed

[Anonymous Coward]

Umm.. Actually it was a 500 system.

More bang for your buck with a PS2? Sorry, but 90% of PS2 games are crap compared to the great neo geo games.

Re:Why it failed

[fifthchild]

$1000 for the console and $100 each for games? Well, here in Australia (and I imagine a lot of places that aren't the USA) most games, new ones in particular, cost that and more. Consoles, Neo Geo aside, were never that high, but some went close when they were new. These days you're looking at $400 or so for it, and that is a conservative estimate.

Yet these things did and still do fine here.

C64

[Erik K. Veland]

People are still making games for C64 too...

Re:C64

[BigJimSlade]

People are still making games for C64

People are still making the C64 itself! (I submitted this to /. last week but it got rejected, so feel free to mod me up :)

Re:C64

[Anonymous Coward]

Good lord. A fairly hot woman interested in computer engineering? That's something I don't see every day, but certainly a welcome sight.

When I was a kid..

[Anonymous Coward]

..I looked in my gaming magazines and said, "WTF is that?"

Yeah. For a few unattainable hundred (Work? Paper route? Fsck that. I didn't waste any time being a kid.), I could've had a Neo Geo.

If not for Mame, I'd still blow several hundred on one. That, or a full blown arcade box.

But, thanks to Mame, I can get my Samurai Spirits fix, without going bankrupt on archaic machinery. :p

AFAIK, you can only get a Neo Geo now from places like E-Bay and such. The prices are ridiculous unless you get lucky.

But if they could take a Neo Geo and shove it into some sort of handheld.. They'd make a killing.

Think about it, how many of you, who waste time travelling to work each morning, grew up on Gauntlet?

How many of you wouldn't pay a fair slice for that retro feeling?

(Okay, okay, how many of you wouldn't mind the stares you'd get when you curse that damned elf for shooting the food?)

Re:When I was a kid..

[wheany]

Does anyone know if Gauntlet has been released or is being made for Gameboy Advance?

Four players, drool....

Metal Slug = greatest shoot 'em up

[Anonymous Coward]

If anyone hasn't had the chance to play through the Metal Slug series, you must! It is, without a doubt, the greatest shoot-em-up ever.
Other Neo Geo titles to check out:

King of Fighters series -- particularly '98
Last Blade 1,2 -- LB2 is a masterpiece
Garou: Mark of the Wolves -- my fav fighter
Samurai Shodown series -- particularly 2
Blazing Star -- incredible shooter
Shock Troopers -- just the 1st one.

SNK fighers simply blow away Capcom's in terms of gameplay. Last Blade 2 and Garou particularly have tighter more strategic gameplay than any offering from Capcom. It is no wonder the greatest gamers in HK and Korea eat SNK's offerings up.

Pocket Colour?

[Te1waz]

Everybody seems to be reminiscing about when "every game was unique" in the 80's. I just looked at the Neo-geo site, and most of the games appear to be 'Street Fighter' clones or variations.

Get a grip, I have a Pocket Colour I bought just before the unit was pulled from Europe and all I can get are the same few game types.

What about the early to mid 80's(C64, Speccy etc.)? There were far fewer game clones then.

Hang on, I think I've turned into Granpa from the Simpsons...

In my day.... blah blah yadda yadda rhubarb

Re:Pocket Colour?

[Dimensio]

Most of the fighting games are "Street Fighter" clones, heck I thought that the characters from World Heroes were direct rip-offs (one character had the appearance of M. Bison(US)/Vega(JP) and the "stretch" ability of Dhalsim). Samurai Shodown had its own unique style however. The Metal Slug series is hardly an original genre, but its intense action and cartoonish humour gives it a cult following.

Yes, many of the fighting games are SF ripoffs (which is why it was so easy to create Capcom vs. SNK) and many of the other games were rips of other genres (lots of Double Dragon/Final Fight type games), but there were a few gems amongs the bunch and almost all of them looked pretty.

Instant gratification

[Ixohoxi]

Games and gamers are like a binary star, each revolves around the other. Change in one influences the other, recursively. Yesterday's game maker had to make a great game to make alot of money. Now that there are so many more gamers, the stakes are higher. Marketing can turn a mediocre game into a money-maker.

Take that recipe, and repeat over and over. Eventually, the game landscape looks like it does today. Tons of 3-D intensive games, loads of RTS and their offspring, and a slew of sports games. Indeed, what happened to innovative side-scrollers, stimulating puzzlers, and more traditional games?

Kids today are obsessed with visuals. If the game doesn't look kick-ass, they don't want to play it. If the game doesn't involve fragging and dying every 30 seconds, they don't want to play it. Most of today's kids want the immediate gratification that games like Q3, UT, HL, etc. offer.

True, there are some types of thought that these gamers are exhibiting, that more traditional games might not bring out. But today's game doesn't make gamers really think. Many of today's games are simply proceed to the next goal, then repeat. Whatever happened to games that you wanted to play until you mastered them?

Those types of games are not conducive to money-making in today's gaming market. You have to buy the sequel! The upgrade! The expansion pack! You can't just pay $35 to have a game you want to play over and over. Like Tetris. If games were drugs, the addictiveness of Tetris is like cocaine, whereas that of say a highly popular FPS is like crack. That's why. Don't increase replayability, increase addictiveness!

Re:Instant gratification

[Croaker]

Kids today are obsessed with visuals. If the game doesn't look kick-ass, they don't want to play it. If the game doesn't involve fragging and dying every 30 seconds, they don't want to play it. Most of today's kids want the immediate gratification that games like Q3, UT, HL, etc. offer.

That's exactly the opposite of what I think. The games these days require so much investment of time in order to master. Take a look at most FPS games, or most of the console fighting games these days. You need to learn a half-dozen to a dozen different commands, dodges, weapon combos, and advanced strategies. It's hard to get into these games unless you're a kid who has a load of time to kill.

Me, I'd like to get a quick gaming fix now and again, but I simply don't have the time to invest in the average game these days. Bring back more of the games with simpler, easily accessable gameplay. Stop equating "more complex" with "more fun." You can still create a game that can hold long-term interest while being accessable. It's just harder.

Re:Instant gratification

[2Flower]

I second that. One of the heralds of classic gaming is that it's easy to get into -- Pac-Man moves around the maze eating dots, okay. The Paperboy throws newspapers, get 'em on the porch, okay. There are nuances and patterns to learn, sure, but we're not talking about 50,000 combo tricks and special techniques and secrets and play variants you need to master in order to have fun at the game. We're talking a game you can drop a quarter into, have a few minutes of fun, and then you're done -- simple, fun, fast, and never tires out.

There are thankfully some modern games with this mentality, but not enough. My favorite right now and the reason I keep my Dreamcast plugged in is Power Stone (first one, not the second). A dirt simple 'fighting game' which is really more of a crazed, high energy Hollywood movie brawl. I can play that as long or as short as I like and still have plenty of fun. AND it had those flashy gosh-wow 3-D graphics that the previous post condemned, too, go figure.

Also of note is that a lot of American arcades are taking this 'Pick up and play' route as well. 'Adult' oriented arcades like Dave & Busters don't even have joystick based games anymore, it's all simulators (adults know how to drive a car or ski down a mountain) or shooting games. Stuff that ANYBODY could play without hitting GameFAQs to memorize all the small details first.

Re:Instant gratification

[Jagasian]

I totally agree! Game developers for some reason think that games need to be movies or reality simulators. Whatever happened to a game being a game? Some modern games are still games: Chu-chu Rocket is a good example.

The best classic games usually had a few simple concepts, which made initially picking the game up and playing a very easy task... however, the many different combinations of those few simple concepts gave gameplay depth only master gamers could conquer.

Re:Instant gratification

[Graspee_Leemoor]

I would say that it's the other way round, tetris is like crack, just addictive, whereas a good FPS is like coke: not only addictive, but makes you feel like a God.

graspee

Re:Instant gratification

[svwolfpack]

You should definately try Icy Tower, which can be freely downloaded from here. Unfortunately, their other games are pretty crappy, but Icy Tower directly caused the collective failure on exams for my floor.

Re:Instant gratification

[gid]

I totally agree, which is why I play quake3 fortress. ( www.q3f.com )
I used to be a college student with loads of time to waste while I should have been studying, so I got good at doom2, quake1 and 2. Now I enjoy to hop on a q3f server for 30-60 mins to play for a bit and relax, then I'm done. Now since I used to play these games all the time, I'm actually half decent. I still do long for the days of side scrollers though. Also, there's no decent two player games anymore. Whatever happened to junk like Contra? Games like that just don't exist anymore.

Stuff like starcraft can take HOURS to play a single level to completion. Naaaa.. forget it. It's a good game, and is fun, but just too much time is needed when I'd rather being doing other things instead of staring a computer, since I already am a programmer. I gotta take a and look away from the screen every few days ya know.

Failed?

[Eitch]

I don't think so. The Neo-geo bios is always running in every place, on arcade machines. There are LOTS of Games running, and they're the best choice for all the gamers I know. Specially the King Of Fighters games are the preferred fighting game for everybody I know.

IMHO, SNK make the best fighting games, like Fatal Fury series, King Of Fighting series, Last Blade, Samurai Showdown, ... There's a place here in town that I always go, and while the King Of Fighters machine is always occupied by someone, the "Capcom vs. Street Fighter" machine running a dreamcast is always empty... Playability is all! The fancy graphics aren't always the best choice...

Get a Neo Geo MVS

[nuxx]

If you're looking for a Neo Geo and find the prices of the home consoles high, look into one of the arcade games themselves. The arcade versions are high, but the low price of the games balances things out. I picked up (locally) a 4-slot (meaning, capable of holding four games at once and switching between them) Neo Geo with a 27" monitor for $500 - $600. Throw in another $30 for new buttons and joysticks (that anyone with a basic knowledge should be able to install) and it'll play just like new. MVS (arcade version) games on eBay typically go for much less than their AES (home version) because they were produced in larger quantities. Many games weren't even released for home play ever. You can find games anywhere from $3/ea to $300/ea, but you should be able to assemble a complete Neo Geo MVS arcade collection for under $1000. I did.

There's just something so much nicer about the original hardware. Even if you do build your own emulation machine. (Which is also in my collection: http://www.nuxx.net/gallery/arcade)

Mmm... Magical Drop III tournaments on a 27".

-Steve

Re:Get a Neo Geo MVS

[peteshaw]

I think you can get a JAMMA cabinet even cheaper. I picked up one for about 250$.

Then a Neo-Geo 1-slot Jamma Card for about 100$, and top it off with Metal SLug, both found on ebay for 150$ and 50$, respectively.

And I agree-- go with the arcade flavor. much nicer.

Cart prices killed

[squaretorus]

I remember the NeoGeo being up against the Sega MegaDrive (Genesis) in the old playground 'my console could have your console' battles. The Nintendo was for poofs and kids, the MegaDrive was mainstream, and the techie boys loved the NeoGeo to pieces.

Only the PCEngine was worth more street cred - but that was because you could actually get games for it! The NeoGeo games available in the UK went for at least £100, sometimes £250.

Mmmmmmm.... Metal Sluuuuuug

Re:Cart prices killed

[wheany]

I'd say Super Nintendo was more mainstream than Sega Megadrive. SNES pretty much reamed MD.

Re:Cart prices killed

[Maul]

Hard to say, actually. I believe the Super Nintendo/Super Famicom was clearly the superior system. However, the Genesis / Megadrive had a lot of good games as well. IIRC, in the U.S., the Genesis did outsell the SNES in terms of total systems sold.

Maybe it is because I'm older now, but this seems to be when the truly great games were out. The SNES had great Square games as well as many other good 3rd. party titles. There were also tons of excellent first party titles like Super Metroid, A Link to the Past, etc.

The Genesis had some really good games too, like Sonic, Phantasy Star 2-4, etc. There were also a few good CD titles, like Lunar (which was re-released on Saturn and Playstation), even though the majority of the Sega CD games sucked.

Recently, I've seen a few things that I've liked in the current console market. SSB Melee at least did a good job of letting me re-live the old days by featuring tons of little things from Nintendo's past. Capcom also did a good job with Maximo, IMO.
Even though it was 3D, it reminds me very much of Ghosts n' Goblins. Though it isn't quite as difficult, it is still harder than most of what comes out nowadays.

Hey, I agree!

[qurob]

I'm picking playability over 3d anyday

Looks like I'm not the only one who hasn't been brainwashed by SCEA that unaliased jagged jumpy polygons AREN'T the future!

$$$Money$$$

[Mulletproof]

Yeah, and this had to be one of the most expensive consoles ever sold with the most expensive games to boot. I'm one for playability, but damn. If only every console had such a long shelf life and retained their value as well as this one... Maybe my NG Pocket will do the same ^__^

Perhaps some of you already know. . .

[Anonymous Coward]

SNK filed for Chapter 11 last year and the rights for the games were picked up by obscure companies (among them are Playmore and Korea's Eolith). Anyone who has seen the latest King Of Fighters game (2001) knows that the NG's glory days are over.

Also, the system can be easily emulated on low-end computers (NeoRageX ran full speed on my 400mhz laptop) and all of the games are floating around the net.

Someone should do what Capcom did and move the classic franchises to a more advanced, more difficult-to-emulate system.

Playability...

[Zathrus]

I'm picking playability over 3d anyday

And you're talking about the Neo Geo here?

Uh... the same game system which had some of the world's crappiest games on it, both in the arcade and on the home system?

Look, if you want cheap and playable then go out and get a $200 PC and play PC games from yesteryear. Go get MAME and other emulators and also play old arcade games like Qbert, Qix, Dig Dug, and so forth.

Neo Geo 3D

[proj_2501]

It should be noted that there is a 64-bit version of the Neo Geo. It's called the Hyper NEO GEO 64, although I think it's only an arcade board. The only game I know of released on it was called Samurai Shodown 64, which I suppose is not the same as Samurai Shodown 4.

You know, you could probably buy a NEO GEO arcade motherboard for about $50, then pick up a JAMMA cabinet with a crap game in it for $200, and you wouldn't have to worry about encryption OR copyright violation OR finding ROM dumps.

Not a CD based system!

[qurob]

Loading....

Playability over 3D?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm picking playability over 3d anyday

Hey, listen, I am all for 2D gaming (stubbornly so, in fact), but that attitude is silly. A better attitude would be saying you pick playability over graphics, or something of the sort. Just because a game is 3D doesn't make it crap compared to 2D. I mean, hell, look at Ico.

Re:Playability over 3D?

[ironfroggy]

I think he was refering to the fact that there is still so much hype over great 3D graphics when most of the games get boring after a few minutes anyway.

Look at Castlevania: Symphany of the Night, its almost six years old and I'm still playing it.

Re:Playability over 3D?

[Anonymous Coward]

exactly, i was referring to the fact that most people will overlook 2d games just because they are 2d. I like some 3d games, but i think 2d games should still be made.

Looking for big ROMs? Try GBA

[yerricde]

I think the biggest (only?) reason for the superior graphics was that NEO-GEO modules are much bigger (physically and logically) than those of any ROM-based console ever. E.g. Metal Slug 3 has 708 Mb. 708 Mb, IN ROM CHIPS! Compare that to the puny 16 Mb Genesis or SNES Modules.

The Game Boy Advance (16 MiHz ARM processor, Super NES-like graphics chipset) may soon top that. Right now, you can buy Visoly flash cartridges that hold 512 megabits. The biggest current games are only 64 megabits, but that will change as prices fall.

Streaming

[yerricde]

Loading....

The consumer version of the Neo-Geo (i.e. the version where each game didn't cost three figures) was CD-based. And loading isn't that bad if you can cover it up with an announcer yelling "Ryu vs. Chun-Li" or something (I don't know SNK characters, so I'm using Capcom here). Plus, you can stream data into RAM as it's needed, which is very useful for scrolling shooters such as the 194? games. If you want to see a beautiful example of streaming in action, try Einhänder for PS1.

Re:Streaming

[Leynos]

The PlayStation version of Metal Slug X streams the levels in as you go along aparently. They original PS Metal Slug had horrible mid-level loads tho.

Re:Streaming

[Tofuhead]

Load times on the first NGCD were so bad that SNK revamped the system and released an updated model with a faster CD-ROM soon after releasing the first. Reliability was also an issue, since the first model's drive crapped out fairly often, but most bought the updated model for its faster drive, not for its improved reliability.

< tofuhead >

Jaguar? Uhhhghg...

[Mulletproof]

No. The Jaguar sux. Hardcore. Actually, maybe the hardware doesn't but I remember when I bought mine. I said, that's cool... But then I began to realize that beyond a handful of games, everything else was crap. And then I was stupid enough to pick up the toilet bowl CDROM and played "Monty Python's Air Combat", otherwise known as Blue Lightining, and all my hopes for the system crumbled. I'm sorry, but beyond the handful of classics (some of which can be picked up on other consoles easily these days), there's simply no way you can compare it to the arcade emulating console of the Neo. And I don't even like the Neo Geo.

Spacetripper

[__aawsxp7741]

Spacetripper is more like Defender than R-Type, but a beautiful game regardless. There's even a Linux version available. Perfect combination of gameplay and graphics, IMO.

Re:Another Hater Wannabe.

[PapaLazarou]

Wow

The US must be really proud to be in that list.

Re:Another Hater Wannabe.

[Mulletproof]

Obviously, you didn't get the point. Pride has nothing to do with the facts, which were clearly mistated by the parent. haters, haters everywhere.

Try the gameboy advance

[ProfBooty]

You have to look to the Gameboy Advance. Desipite being 32 bit, it has 16bit like graphics on par with the SNES. Many simialer games too, there is a gradius game, a new castlevania game(which rocks) Fzero, advance wars, a new metroid and a bunch of RPGs.

The playability of these games are great and probably the only place where you will find most new 2d games.

Re:Try the gameboy advance

[Zone5]

This is the whole reason I own a Gameboy Advance.... I own only three games for it, Pitfall, Super Mario Bros., and Castlevania. The only reason I have this thing in the first place is to recapture a bit of my gaming youth, when games like Turrican and Turrican 2 trapped me for hours at a time. Man, I never realized before now exactly why I craved the GBA so much - it wss the years of repressed platformer lust!

Re:Try the gameboy advance

[Sycraft-fu]

Ahhh! I don't know how the concept of "x-bit" graphics got started, but it's a totally meaningless concept and has NOTHING to do with the actual consoles themselves. What's more, people are often wrong about the numbers they use. The SNES had a 16-bit CPU, it did not have 16-bit graphics by any meaning of the word.

PC Engine, AKA Turbo Grafx 16

[larsoncc]

This system is also alive and well, some folks even have "development kits".

I have 2 Turbo Grafx systems, both with CDs, and 1 with a System 3 card.

Lords of Thunder and Neutopia are fantasic examples from the platform.

Why so Jaded?

[larsoncc]

OK...

1. I don't like many 3D games, Jak and Daxter being an exception.
2. I wouldn't mind having an old Amiga...
3. The demise of the Dreamcast makes me sad beyond words.
4. The Neo Geo represented a leap forward in thinking that started the major decline of Arcades. Give the people EXACTLY what is used in the most state-of-the-art situations. I think it was a cool concept, regardless of cost.

Re:Why so Jaded?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, The Neo, much like sega, are extremely good at making fantastic games. Sega's downfall was the marketing of their console and ease of bootlegging games. There are games the the original 8-bit nintendo that I prefer to some of these "State-of-the-art" games on X-box or PS2. People seem to be mezmorized my pretty colors and polycounts instead of games that entertain. I love 3D games as much as the next guy, but if the actual game is jsut thin, it takes more than polygons to keep my attention.
The reason why SNK went down is because people emulate the games. The games are expensive due to emulators.

Re:Why so Jaded?

[Anonymous Coward]

"The games are expensive due to emulators."

This is obviously not true, as Neo-Geo games were always expensive. I remember seeing 130$ (US) games when I was a kid, and almost shitting myself.

That's why I bought a NINTENDO Gamecube

[IIRCAFAIKIANAL]

Warning: Mouth breathing fanboy alert

Hardly any games yet but NINTENDO as a publisher puts out a lot of cool games. Pikmin rocks and Super Smash Bros. rocks - now where is my Mario Sunshine and Zelda? :)

Playing Resident Evil right now - best graphics in any game I have ever played. Bar none. It is literally seamless.

BTW, i'm not really a total fanboy - I have a playstation and play a lot of PC games too :)

More games = more crap AND more good

[IIRCAFAIKIANAL]

You're playing the wrong games. And it all depends. Mastering Half Life isn't that hard - but you don't play to master, you play because it has an interesting narrative. Same with Metal Gear Solid (haven't played Part 2, can't comment).

As far as pure play for months and months, there are still plenty of puzzle games - my girlfriend has been playing Puzzle Bobble in it's various incarnations for years. I'd put Super Smash Bros in that category too.

Basically, gaming has hit mainstream, so like mainstream, you sometimes have to look for the good in piles of crap. It's no different than the movie industry. Most of it is crap, but then something like Spider-Man is released.

Now the next question is - would Spider-Man have been half as cool if it wasn't mainstream and had a miniscule budget? Games today often lack that "spark" that older games have because more money is spent on art and cgi and so on. But there *are* games with that spark, and if those games are also easy on the eyes, then why complain?

mame cabinets? feh.

[rudiger]

maybe some people dig standing up, but imo, standing when you could be sitting is for chumps. i would much rather build a wintendo or something, plug it in to a tv and sit down on a nice couch to play games. whether its console titles of yesteryear or MAME titles, sitting beats standing any day, and you don't need to waste all that time/money building a cabinet.

clearance

[Low Key]

I guess I should have bought these when the had them on clearance for $30 a couple of years back at the local Kay-Bee toy store.

neo-geo

[BortQ]

I remember the neo-geo.

The article misses the point.

[Anonymous Coward]

The article completely misses the fact that the Neo Geo was not created to be a home console system. It was created as an arcade board, to be used in arcade centers. Eventually a home version was released for those who wanted to have the arcade at home.

My point is that the Neo Geo cannot be compared with the GameCube, Playstation 2 and XBox, for the simple reason that it is a different market. Of course the Neo Geo is more expensive than these, because it was not designed to be played at home. If you want to compare the Neo Geo to something, what about Sega's Naomi, Sony's System 236 (is that the number?) and more recently the incoming Nintendo/Sega/Namco TriForce? As an arcade system the Neo Geo has ben failry succesful. Maybe not in the US, but it has been in other countries, Mexico and Asian countries being good examples.

----
Jabel D. Morales - VMan of Mana

Some guy lazy to register.

Re:The article misses the point.

[Anonymous Coward]

Neo Geo may not be designed as a home system, but then again, there aren't enough people around to add coin slots and arcade joysticks front end on the consoles. Without the (not so) proprietary controller, operating system, coin slots, and closed architecture, the arcade machines are just overpriced, underpowered versions of computers. It is much cheaper just to turn Xbox into arcade machine instead of buying genuine arcade hardware.

I disagree

[Anonymous Coward]

The Neo Geo was always the system to have. There were few available and demand was high. It had a legend like status. Even today people still are like "WOW a NEO GEO!".

I still have mine with most of the best games for it. Cost a fortune. But I love it more than any other console. I have most of them too. Sad it didn't morph into a more long term technology...

Re:I disagree

[GutBomb]

12 years and still kicking for a video game console is not long term? the only other machine to do it was the gameboy.

Yakuza and SNK Re:Why it failed

[Anonymous Coward]

... it had a hard time in Japan as well, because the president of SNK is known to have times to the Japanese mob, and they couldn't get the same distribution channels that the other Japanese channels had due to their rap.

It also didn't help that they priced it in the "niche" category targeted at wealthy yuppie males-- the same target audience that the ultra-expensive hi-fi systems target. Problem is, those guys are usually over 40 and don't play console games.

Neo Geo was good...

[c4tp]

...but if you really want to go old skool, you need a Colecovision, an Atari 2600, and, of course, a C64.

Now that's what you call a Home Entertainment System!

Other systems still have games coming out too

[Anonymous Coward]

One man is still making games for the Atari Jaguar and the Atari Lynx:

http://songbird.atari.net/

playability over 3D

[AndyChrist]

That's an ironic thing to say, considering that in the first 2 or 3 years, the selling point of the Neo Geo was it's graphics and sound (everyone was wowed by the amount of speech!), and the games mostly played like crap.

NeoGeo good games bad pricing

[Anonymous Coward]

In it's prime the Neo cost $400.00 US dollars.
I could understand a one time cost of 400 bucks for a system.

NeoGeo games on the other hand are a freaking rip
off. I don't care how good a game is there is no way to justify paying 250 bucks for a game.
This is why Neo was doomed from the get go.

And she's hot!

[198348726583297634]

she could even sell these things on sex-appeal!

err, hers, that is.. not the C=1's....

although I do want one of those....