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AOL Settles Class Action Suit Over Client Software
An anonymous reader sent in news that AOL is settling a class action suit over their AOL 5.0 software, which usurped people's dial-up networking settings when installed. There's a website for the suit and a
news article about the settlement. Of course, you have to admit you use AOL.
Just claim it is the only ISP you can get in your area, then its OK.
I hate AOL as much as the next guy, but there is no way it screwed up dial up settings as much as Netzero did.
"The United States has no right, no desire, and no intention to impose our form of government on anyone else." - Bush 05
I guess even first posters don't want to admit they use AOL!
I'm torn about AOL. I used to want their complete destruction. But now I want to see them reinstate Netscape in the browser market, and then I want their complete destruction.
Jon: Hi everybody. My name is Jon and I use AOL.
Everybody: Hi Jon!
--------
Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
It's about time big companies realize that they can't just take over someone's system because their software is installed. It's not just AOL; programs like Realplayer and Quicktime do this also. Hopefully this settlement will discourage this type of behaviour in the future.
I'll do a lot of things for money...
But admit using AOL isn't one of them.
Settlement 15.5 Million
Amount to consumers - 8.7 million
the rest goes to lawyers!
Almost half- goes to lawyers the rest get split up between everyone who claims. So fill out your claim form and sit by the mail box waiting on your check for $1.00. But don't lose the check stub! You've got to pay taxes on that money next April.
This kind of crap just burns me up. AOL throws 15 mil at a problem (I guess they skip sending free CD tins for like a day)- a few lawyers make a killing and everybody else gets jack.
Real victory for the consumer here. And did the lawyer balk at settling? Of course not- they just hit the powerball and won 7 million.
.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
Damn, one mouse click away from $1000! Why did I have to go and install it so efficiently? Well, thats not quite true, I'm in the wrong country but why can't something like that happen to me! Now, wheres that screwdriver, I think I'll go and poke myself in the eye.
Hello Jon
"The United States has no right, no desire, and no intention to impose our form of government on anyone else." - Bush 05
So let's see the attorneys take the most money home when everyone else gets $250 at the most? Now lets not forget AOL doesn't pay for this settlement but rather an insurance company. Sounds like the only major victory was by the lawyers who originally took on the class action lawsuit. Can't believe their insurance company agreed to that..
Of course, you have to admit you use AOL.
well... i wager that 98% of the people here uses AOL -- in some way or another. Just think AIM; besides... all thoes turner movies -- do they count?
My life in the land of the rising sun.
We need to see more of these kind of lawsuits IMHO, if major software companies can be held accountable for glitches like this then we are a step closer to having better software produced. Support your local class action lawsuit.
Of course I've never personally used AOL, although I've had similar problems with lots of other software, anything from Microsoft for example. I wonder, could the subject of a new similar lawsuit be the many instances of covertly installed spyware along with other software? Hmm.
__ No registration required to read this message. They did it in the Matrix.
By completely screwing with a customer's windows installation, they were just innovating, providing the customer with what they want. I mean, who'd want to use anything other than AOL's default settings? /sarcasm
No, this proves exactly what happens when you cater to the lowest common denominator in computing. You try to make it so the customer can't fsck it up, and you end up fscking it up worse than if you hadn't made it easy.
It does, however, seem wrong to me that AOL is paying damages -- if the contention is that the software wouldn't let them use AOL (which they pay for), that's one thing. But a person wouldn't be able to collect from, say, a piece of shareware that screwed things up. "THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDE AS-IS...."
Customer: I found a real Internet Service Provider. But I can't use it because AOL keeps popping up whenever I get online!
AOL Tech: What're you talking about?? AOL is the Internet!
--
From the earlier article:
"The suit seeks damages of up to $1,000 for each of the 8 million consumers estimated to have installed the software."
From the later article:
"America Online has agreed to pay $15.5 million... Under the plan, consumers would be paid about $8.1 million, with the rest going mostly to the attorneys."
That's about $10 per consumer. Looks like two orders of magnititude were lost in the shuffle. Maybe the plaintiffs should consider a class action lawsuit against their own counsel?
Or is it just me? I personally hate AOL, but what is wrong with it being the "default" program. Especially since you have the option of changing that! All kinds of competing software does this. Quicktime vs. Windows media, Netscape vs IE. What got me about this article was the little line "consumers would be paid about $8.1 million, with the rest going mostly to the attorneys." Ahhh... sudently the light goes on! To me this is nothing more than a way for some lawyers to get rich at the expence of someone else. Even if the "someone else" is a large company that most informed computer users hate, that doesn't make it right.
Sigs are out of style, so I'm not going to use one...oh wait..
The settlement page indicates that you have to prove damages by producing a receipt showing that your computer was screwed up / unstable / unable to dial any other isp / etc. and you had to have it fixed. What money does a person get if they fix it themselves, or their granddaughter comes over and makes it all better?
and who had to do dialup support back when this came out, and had customers bitching and moaning at US because they were dumb enough to pop a CD someone mailed them into their computer... as always, there will be nothing.
I swear, we should have kept track of the hours spent, and then billed AOL or something.
Get off my launchpad!
were used to make AOL's drink coasters?
--Blair
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I hate Netscape/Mozilla. Why did those programmers back in 1997 decide to combine several programs which should be seperate into one? It just adds useless bloat.
Microsoft on the other hand has made their internet programs, Internet Explorer and Outlook Express, seperate from each other which is just plain better.
No one will adopt Netscape/Mozilla as their browser for just this reason. It is not modular.
since you dont have logs it might not help you, but talk to different people about starting a class action suit of ISP Support vs AOL... if a bunch of ISPs sued and AOL settled, some would get their money back, and hopefully aol wont be so stupid in the future.
Yes, I used AOL at that time, because it was the only service in the area I was living in that would allow me access. The only connection available was dial up, as this was rural area. Did the connect to AOL work? Yes, but it also prevented me from dialing into my work and connecting to the local system there.
I guess it doesn't matter at this point. This suit only allows for people who willingly used the AOL service, yet did not know anything was wrong with their system. Funny how the only people who would be able to know something was wrong are the same persons being excluded (because they are able to provide their own solution).
You keep going until you die..."Me".
Looks like John will be compensated for his time dealing with the unpleasant AOL account cancellation staff.
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http://features.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/
~Alexander
AOL should start sending out CD-RW disks so people can write over them like we used to do with the floppies. I miss those days. Now the best purpose an AOL CD can serve is a coaster.
$15M suit. $8M after lawyers fees. Maximum take per customer that files is $250 (DOLLARS). This seems like the kind of lawsuit that serves no purpose whatsoever. Software modifies your computer, thats all there is to it. From what I gather, there's nothing malicious going on by AOL, they just got users that complained that the aol software:
-made itself default on the system. netscape tries todo this, hell even mozilla does this.
-makes computers more instable. last i knew, AOL runs on windows. if you install ANYTHING, ittl make windows less stable. thats part of the game.
-didnt allow users to connect to remote ISP's. this sounds like a DUN/RAS problem. so, readd the other ISP.
I'm probably oversimplifying the small details, but all in all, this is plain stupid.
People arent going to be taken seriously when real problems occur if people sue for this kind of stuff.
It's about time someone sued AND WON a lawsuit for crappy software. I mean, we are free to wrtie crappy software, but when you practically force people to use insecure/unstable/harmful software, there is a certain amount of accountability. I wonder if we can start suing MS for all the time we've spent rebooting at work, installing uber-patches to save our computers, etc. THAT settlement could (and SHOULD) put MS into bankruptcy.
I work at a ISP as a Tech support rep, the isp I work for is a 56k provider, any one that has Windows 95, 98 or ME, will have problems with AOL software 5 and version 4. This is what you do to fix it: 1. R&R Dial up Networking (DUN) Say no to version conflicts (in the control panel go to add remove programs) 2. R&R TCPIP and remove all AOL clients installed in your "Network" in the control panel. Make sure when you are done you have Client For Microsoft Networks, Dial Up Adapter and TCPIP. I normally reinstall everything But Dial Up adapter. Save and it will ask you for your windows cd or cabs, supply them and MAKE SURE YOU SAY "NO" to all version conflicts. It will ask to reboot say "No" 3. GO into msconfig and remove AOL from the startup of your computer!! Press yes and reboot! Now you should be all set! No more curruption. THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO CLEAN YOUR SYSTEM! And if this doesnt work you have alot of registry hacks to do... P.S. DO NOT OPEN AOL AGAIN or it will recurrupt your system! :)
keanmarine.com
Layout your guidelines of what you expect the software to handle before it's written. Write or create test cases which will check for the guidelines. Now write the software and fix it until it passes all of the tests.
;)
That said, it depends on what I'm doing as to whether the test cases are automated or a quick checklist.
Last, I've yet to figure out how to effectively test for bugs in the test case code
I work at a ISP as a Tech support rep, the isp I work for is a 56k provider, any one that has Windows 95, 98 or ME, will have problems with AOL software 5 and version 4. This is what you do to fix it:
:)
1. R&R (Remove and Reinstall) Dial up Networking (DUN) Say no to version conflicts (in the control panel go to add remove programs)
2. R&R TCPIP and remove all AOL clients installed in your "Network" in the control panel. Make sure when you are done you have Client For Microsoft Networks, Dial Up Adapter and TCPIP. I normally reinstall everything But Dial Up adapter. Save and it will ask you for your windows cd or cabs, supply them and MAKE SURE YOU SAY "NO" to all version conflicts. It will ask to reboot say "No"
3. GO into msconfig and remove AOL from the startup of your computer!! Press yes and reboot!
Now you should be all set! No more curruption. THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO CLEAN YOUR SYSTEM! And if this doesnt work you have alot of registry hacks to do...
P.S. DO NOT OPEN AOL AGAIN or it will recurrupt your system!
keanmarine.com
Look at the subject of the message. He's not trying to offer any insight: he posting obviously inflammatory and false remarks. You have been trolled.
Are you going to bother refuting the subject of this message?
Is still the comsumer. This is the first major lawsuit I can think of against a software developer that takes care of that ridiculous "we're not responsible for any damage our buggy POS software does to your PC" clause.
VIVA LA VICTOIRE!!!
-didnt allow users to connect to remote ISP's. this sounds like a DUN/RAS problem. so, readd the other ISP.
No, it installed a heavily customized version of the Dial-Up Networking (DUN) DLLs, which was incompatible with most standard Internet access. To regain connectivity to other ISPs, a user had to uninstall AOL, remove the AOL Adapter, and reinstall DUN.
-- Pinocchio Poppins (former alt.aol-sucks member)
I reckon we all deserve hefty compensation for having to the flood of morons AOL has unleashed onto the 'Net over the last five years.
"Yes, well, we were planning on increasing our price by $2 per month starting in July, so in lieu of sending out checks we'll only charge everyone $1 more for the month of July. From August on we will be charging the planned $2 increase."
It's a small comfort to those of us in Tech Support for and ISP, but.. man.. it's good to see that it didn't TOTALLY go unnoticed.
That stupid AOL Dialup Adapter caused us more headaches then all the people who couldn't remember their e-mail passwords in the history of the internet ever did.
Mc Donalds is where you go to get fat and eat a burger around a 500 calories, but SubWay is where you go to eat a sub around 50 calories. AOL is where you go for bad service but MSN is where they treat you right.
What sucks most about AOL's behavior is that they knew before shipping 5.0 that it had this "Evil Connectoid" bug. See this story from 1999.
30% of the settlement, or an equal share, which ever is less.
That's right up there with "Heads, I win. Tails, you lose."
How can this be serious? Loads of software that people install screws up there system but the eula always says that the company take no responsibility for any damaged caused. Out of all the things that software could do to bugger up you system, changing a few internet connection settings doesn't seem like that big a deal. Then again this is America, where people sue at the drop of a hat.
Your computer isn't worth all that much, neither is the software on it.
AOL didnt't really harm them.
While their practices may be disgusting, how much in damages are you looking to exact?
The only thing that this does is put a bunch of AOL employees in the unemployment category.
there is this site( i belueve the .isgay.com and co sites) that have their hate mail posted on it. it seems that half the time the people threaten to tell AOL on them or the "internet police" to what they are referring too i can only guess but has aol set itself up so that people think it controls things that much? perhaps an intro to the "internet" become mandatory in high school? i know most kids these days have the basic use of a computer down but they do not know anything about how the internet is arranged.
I believe the correct term for multiple AOLers is "snert."
Your statement should read: "the snert of morons AOL has unleashed..."
. .
Okay, it's 5am and I may not be 100% :)
What strikes me is that this settlement is irrelevant :
From discussion above, (Settlement - Legal Fees) / Complainants does not amount to a whole hill of beans for any individual, let alone even real compensation for the time and effort involved in fixing the settings which were hijacked. I agree also that the way that the complainants have to get a "receipt" for their troubles from another ISP is bumkum.
Okay, that notwithstanding, none of this has any benefit to the consuer _at large_ because it was a settlement between private parties.
If it had been a _ruling_ and some case law / precedent were set, then other companies planning this might have to take note and stop hijacking people's configurations.
Maybe I'm missing something about US law, but this strikes me as just a payoff to a few lawyers and a bunch of complainants who bothered to do their (pretty ridiculous) paperwork. If it's just a private settlement, there's nothing to say it will discourage anyone from using the same unplesant practises in future.
Oh well, since when did "public good" pay anyone's bills . . . .
What the!
"Look where we worship" -- Jim Morrison
I used AOL for nearly 5 years. I am not a fan of their service, but still maintain an account because my girlfriend prefers it. I used to do tech support at a call center that supported several major laptop manufacturers. Every night I would fight the very problems (not as many as an ISP fights I'm sure) described in this suit and then go home and sign onto AOL myself. However, I had several reasons:
1. I'm not sure of the limit today, but they used to allow you to send up to 35 meg attachments you could also do this multiple times. On more than one occasion I had over 100 meg in my inbox.
2. they were very early in their implementation of web based email (yes, i used hotmail and places like that too in the past, but the file size limitation often got in the way.)
3. In the old days (I definately can't say this anymore) the junk mail, for some reason, seemed to be a lot less on that account compared to hotmail, yahoo, etc.
4. Uptime - i don't think i can remember a time that the main AOL service being down caused any problems for me.
5. admittedly, dial-up to AOL can be somewhat problematic depending on the quality of the local number, but AOL combined with a local ISP for a BYOA (bring your own access) account provided a lot of flexibility.
6. this point is not near as valid as it used to be, but the AOL only content that used to be offered was much higher quality overall than a lot of what was offered on the internet in general. (I'm pretty sure I'm going to hear about this one)
My main point in all of this is not to say AOL is great... far from it. I am saying that it has merits that can benefit the advanced user as well as the novice user that thinks AOL is the entire internet.
anyone remember the commecial where the guy says "My friend told me to get AOL, I said why I've already got a computer."
that one always cracked me up:)
I am one of the poor souls that had to switch to MSN thanks to Qwest for my dialup support (rural MT, and Qwest was fast and stable for a 56k connection.) The required M$ software totally ursurped my dialup networking, I cannot find any way to uninstall it when I change to a new provider, of course I can't check email with mozilla and have to use wonderful Outlook, and along with several other annoyances, I can't even close msn messenger down because it is used be other programs. How is this really any different than AOL? We have less and less control of our rights every day while these large organizations try to manipulate everything we do with our lives.....shrug, welcome to corporate america I guess.....
1. When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend.
2. Do not eat iPod shuffle.
Have you read Right to read yet?
I'm trying to remember when it began. Which version of Windows was it that detected the presence of OS/2 on the hard drive and offered to remove it "to free up disk space?"
I'm sick to death of competitive installations. When I put my mouse over an "upgrade software now" button I feel like I'm playing Russian roulette and am just about to pull the trigger.
What are the chances that I'm going to disable something else I use? Yes, there's a huge grey area: sometimes the effect is innocently (bad SQA). Sometimes it's semi-intentional, the software equivalent of the car rental clerk saying "sign here" over a page of 50%-gray type on a 33%-grey background. You know, what does this gobbledegook about 'making the the default application for opening your media files' mean? I guess I'll just push the return key and take the default....
Sometimes I think it's intentional. Hey, we're just sharp, competitive businessmen, kicking competitors in the groin is what made this country great...
I think needs at the very least to be a "truth-in-installation" law. The installer should disclose clearly, in plain language, EVERYTHING it's going to do in terms that are meaningful to the consumer. ("Increase stability, and, oh, yes, enforce the license agreement by technical means and, by the way, send information to us over the Internet which, according to our just-changed privacy policy we can share with our trusted partners...)
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
You don't let your relatives, or your coworkers, or anyone that wants to see the real Internet use AOL.
People that like to have their information filtered and riddled with ads could use it, but I don't know anyone like that.
Me: ha, ha.. largest quarterly loss ever.
Geek (rich): I know, I know.. I still made money in the long run.
Designer: what?
Me: AOL
Designer: AOL SUCKS!
Geek (rich): I hear they're going to acquire Cox.
Designer: Ten inches and longer?
Geek (rich): Netscape, Time Warner, what next?
Designer: NETSCAPE SUCKS!
Best Windows Freeware
A tech actually told the latter line about Mozilla when I asked how I could access my mail account with a user name like "Erris@mycoputer". I ended up using fetchmail to get around the stupid set up, and the blocked incomming port 25, but the tech did NOT help me.
AOL has to go to all of these lenghts because M$ will break their client if they do not. That fact makes this whole lawsuit a bunch of BULLSHIT. TWO PIECES OF SOFTWARE DID NOT WORK TOGETHER. ONE OF THEM REFUSES TO WORK WITH SOFTWARE FROM MANY OTHER COMPANIES, AND OLDER VERSIONS OF THEIR OWN SOFTWARE. WHICH PIECE OF SOFTWARE DO YOU THINK WAS AT FAULT IN THIS CASE?
Yes, I'm an AOL user. I've had an account for freaking ever. I access it through AOL anywhere with Mozilla on any computer with a browser. My OS preference is Debian. There is much AOL could do better, but there's not much they can do about their M$ client software.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
How about a lawsuit against M$ for letting it happen? It's their googey system that boned everyone. They built a userless OS with a flimsy registry that any software can stick any old binary crap into but will break your computer. They did it so they could force MSN, AOL used the exact same mechanisms. The whole Hell Desk thing is a direct result of this kind of intentional push. Is is AOL's fault M$ spagetti coded everything to break if you want an ISP that is not M$?
Look at the numbers. Are one in ten techs at your ISP on standby for Apple calls? How about Linux? No? How about the number of acutal calls? Apple, Linux, BSD, Solaris, not giving you problems? Hmmmmm, that's a wide spectrum of users that don't have this and other kinds of problems. What do the majority of calls have in common? NEXT!
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
the real winner in this is the lawyers. they get almost half.
-c
Hate to say it, but after signing onto AOL back in like 1992, I still have my AOL account. I never use it for actual dialup access or anything, I just keep it around ($10/month) for the email address. I've given many people over the years that email address, and even though I am now using SBC DSL and have another email address, I've kept the AOL access just because I want to be accessable to people I may have given my address to years ago.
Not that I like AOL. In fact, a lot of the time I just use the web access for my email.
Time for someone to sue New.NET over this crap? I need to reinstall my box because of Eww.NET-alikes hijacking my browser...
--joshua
the 1st time i read this I laughed out loud:
Diary of an AOL user
july 18- i just tried to connect to america online, which I've heard is the best online service I can get. i can't connect, i dont know what is wrong.
july 19- some guy at the tech support center says my computer needs a modem. i dont see why. hes just trying to cheat me. how dumb does he think i am?
july 20- i bought the modem. i couldnt figure out where it goes. it wouldnt fit in the moniter or the printer. im confused.
july 21- i finally got the modem in and hooked up. that three year old next door did it for me.
july 22- that three year old kid next door hooked me up to america online for me. hes so smart.
july 23- whats the internet? i thought i was on america online, not this internet thingy. im confused.
july 24- the three year old kid next door showed me how to use this america online stuff. he must be a genius, at least compared to me.
july 25- i tried to use chat today. i tried to talk into my computer but nothing happened. maybe i need to buy a microphone.
july 26- i found this thingy called usenet. i got out of it because im connected to america online, not usenet. i went to the doctor today for my regular checkup. he says that since i connected to america online, my brain has mysteriously shrunk to half its normal size.
july 27- these people in this usenet thingy keep using capital letters. how do they do that? i never figured out how to type capital letters. maybe they have a different type of keyboard.
july 28- i found this thingy called the usenet oracle. it says that it can answer any questions i ask it. i asked it 44 seperate questions about the internet. i hope it responds soon.
july 29- i found a group called rec.humor. i decided to post this joke about why the chicken crossed the road. to get to the other side! ha
ha! i wasn't sure if i posted it right so i posted it 56 more times.
july 30- i keep hearing about the world wide web. i didnt know spiders grew that large.
july 31- the oracle responded to my questions today. geez, it was rude. i was so angry that i posted an angry message about it to rec.humor.oracle.d. i wasn't sure if it posted right so i posted it 22 more times.
august 1- someone told me to read the faq. geez, they didn't have to use profanity.
august 2- i just read this post called make money fast. im so exited, im going to make lots of money. i followed his instructions and posted it to every newsgroup i could find.
august 3- i just made my signature file. its only 6 pages long, so i will have to work on it some more.
august 4- i just looked at a group called alt.aol.sucks. i read a few posts and i really believe that aol should be wiped off the face of the earth. i wonder what an "aol" is, however.
august 5- i was asking where to find some information about something. some guy told me to check out ftp.netcom.com. ive looked and looked,
but i cant find that group.
august 6- some guy suspended my account because of what i was doing. i told him i don't have an account at his bank. hes so dumb.
Is is AOL's fault M$ spagetti coded everything to break if you want an ISP that is not M$?
Did you read the article? DUN (Microsoft's Dial Up Networking applet) isn't the problem, here.
DUN works fine with non-MS ISPs. Other ISPs are not on trial here for screwing up settings with their broken proprietary software.
Or is your idea of a real ISP someone who forces you to install a proprietary dialer and other software that tracks your usage and tries to market to you, and also uses proprietary protocols for mail, etc.?
This isn't talk radio. Get a clue, or at least read the article, before you spew. It is definitely AOL's fault, not only for releasing buggy code, but for denying that it was a problem for days and weeks afterwords, after it became public knowledge and we began warning our customers. You would be all over Microsoft if they did this; why are you defending AOL?
Look at the numbers. Are one in ten techs at your ISP on standby for Apple calls? How about Linux? No? How about the number of acutal calls?
*nix installs, with the exception of OSX, are not sufficiently end-user-friendly enough for us to do much troubleshooting for customers. Just think of where all your RPMs might be, whether your permissions are set properly, etc. Oh, yah, and do you think maybe the reason that a huge number of our calls are for MS Windows boxes is because almost all of our end users use MS Windows, anyway? Mac users would know to delete and rebuild if things get "corrupted" (they "corrupt" more often than our MS users) and *nix users either know how to administer their systems or have admins on staff.
Get off my launchpad!
Eh? I am over M$. Their crap banished to a network blind computer in the corner of my room that talks to cameras and a scanner. A real OS is used on the same machine to transfer files off it.
The reason that is so is because I got sick of rebuilding broken M$ garbage. M$ built a flimsy OS so that it would easier to replace than fix. Face it, most people who actually use and rely on M$ junk have to rebuild their computer once every two months or so, or it gets all slow and broken. If AOL's stuff broke M$ it's M$'s fault, period. If M$ had a reasonable OS it would not be broken that way, all the time. If every M$ software maker was held to this standard, they would all be hit, especially M$. Show me one Win95 or 98 box that has been used that has not required a rebuild. Don't tell me w2k is any better, I'm forced to use that buggy junk at work.
Oh, yah, and do you think maybe the reason that a huge number of our calls are for MS Windows boxes is because almost all of our end users use MS Windows, anyway?
I think 10% of your users have macs, and at leat 7% use Linux. If 1 in 6 of your calls are not about mac or linux problems, you can be sure that what people say about M$ being crap is true.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
umm no, if they open AOL it repairs its self and currupts the system again (AOL fixes its self)
keanmarine.com