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AOL Settles Class Action Suit Over Client Software
An anonymous reader sent in news that AOL is settling a class action suit over their AOL 5.0 software, which usurped people's dial-up networking settings when installed. There's a website for the suit and a
news article about the settlement. Of course, you have to admit you use AOL.
Just claim it is the only ISP you can get in your area, then its OK.
I hate AOL as much as the next guy, but there is no way it screwed up dial up settings as much as Netzero did.
"The United States has no right, no desire, and no intention to impose our form of government on anyone else." - Bush 05
I guess even first posters don't want to admit they use AOL!
I'm torn about AOL. I used to want their complete destruction. But now I want to see them reinstate Netscape in the browser market, and then I want their complete destruction.
Jon: Hi everybody. My name is Jon and I use AOL.
Everybody: Hi Jon!
--------
Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
It's about time big companies realize that they can't just take over someone's system because their software is installed. It's not just AOL; programs like Realplayer and Quicktime do this also. Hopefully this settlement will discourage this type of behaviour in the future.
Settlement 15.5 Million
Amount to consumers - 8.7 million
the rest goes to lawyers!
Almost half- goes to lawyers the rest get split up between everyone who claims. So fill out your claim form and sit by the mail box waiting on your check for $1.00. But don't lose the check stub! You've got to pay taxes on that money next April.
This kind of crap just burns me up. AOL throws 15 mil at a problem (I guess they skip sending free CD tins for like a day)- a few lawyers make a killing and everybody else gets jack.
Real victory for the consumer here. And did the lawyer balk at settling? Of course not- they just hit the powerball and won 7 million.
.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
Damn, one mouse click away from $1000! Why did I have to go and install it so efficiently? Well, thats not quite true, I'm in the wrong country but why can't something like that happen to me! Now, wheres that screwdriver, I think I'll go and poke myself in the eye.
Hello Jon
"The United States has no right, no desire, and no intention to impose our form of government on anyone else." - Bush 05
Of course, you have to admit you use AOL.
well... i wager that 98% of the people here uses AOL -- in some way or another. Just think AIM; besides... all thoes turner movies -- do they count?
My life in the land of the rising sun.
We need to see more of these kind of lawsuits IMHO, if major software companies can be held accountable for glitches like this then we are a step closer to having better software produced. Support your local class action lawsuit.
Of course I've never personally used AOL, although I've had similar problems with lots of other software, anything from Microsoft for example. I wonder, could the subject of a new similar lawsuit be the many instances of covertly installed spyware along with other software? Hmm.
__ No registration required to read this message. They did it in the Matrix.
Yes, the insurance company is probably the one who had to shell out the money.
But that's not the point, the effect is still there. More importantly the insurance company will likely have to raise their rates in order to support the payment - effectively costing the companies who carry this kind of insurance more. This translates to the right general effect, although admittedly indirectly.
__ No registration required to read this message. They did it in the Matrix.
By completely screwing with a customer's windows installation, they were just innovating, providing the customer with what they want. I mean, who'd want to use anything other than AOL's default settings? /sarcasm
No, this proves exactly what happens when you cater to the lowest common denominator in computing. You try to make it so the customer can't fsck it up, and you end up fscking it up worse than if you hadn't made it easy.
It does, however, seem wrong to me that AOL is paying damages -- if the contention is that the software wouldn't let them use AOL (which they pay for), that's one thing. But a person wouldn't be able to collect from, say, a piece of shareware that screwed things up. "THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDE AS-IS...."
Customer: I found a real Internet Service Provider. But I can't use it because AOL keeps popping up whenever I get online!
AOL Tech: What're you talking about?? AOL is the Internet!
--
From the earlier article:
"The suit seeks damages of up to $1,000 for each of the 8 million consumers estimated to have installed the software."
From the later article:
"America Online has agreed to pay $15.5 million... Under the plan, consumers would be paid about $8.1 million, with the rest going mostly to the attorneys."
That's about $10 per consumer. Looks like two orders of magnititude were lost in the shuffle. Maybe the plaintiffs should consider a class action lawsuit against their own counsel?
Nobody will get $250 bucks. Way too many people will file claims for that (at 250 bucks a pop that wont even cover 35000 people).
So you are right - it sucks all the way around and the only people who really benefit are the vultures.
.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
Or is it just me? I personally hate AOL, but what is wrong with it being the "default" program. Especially since you have the option of changing that! All kinds of competing software does this. Quicktime vs. Windows media, Netscape vs IE. What got me about this article was the little line "consumers would be paid about $8.1 million, with the rest going mostly to the attorneys." Ahhh... sudently the light goes on! To me this is nothing more than a way for some lawyers to get rich at the expence of someone else. Even if the "someone else" is a large company that most informed computer users hate, that doesn't make it right.
Sigs are out of style, so I'm not going to use one...oh wait..
The settlement page indicates that you have to prove damages by producing a receipt showing that your computer was screwed up / unstable / unable to dial any other isp / etc. and you had to have it fixed. What money does a person get if they fix it themselves, or their granddaughter comes over and makes it all better?
and who had to do dialup support back when this came out, and had customers bitching and moaning at US because they were dumb enough to pop a CD someone mailed them into their computer... as always, there will be nothing.
I swear, we should have kept track of the hours spent, and then billed AOL or something.
Get off my launchpad!
were used to make AOL's drink coasters?
--Blair
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Yes, I used AOL at that time, because it was the only service in the area I was living in that would allow me access. The only connection available was dial up, as this was rural area. Did the connect to AOL work? Yes, but it also prevented me from dialing into my work and connecting to the local system there.
I guess it doesn't matter at this point. This suit only allows for people who willingly used the AOL service, yet did not know anything was wrong with their system. Funny how the only people who would be able to know something was wrong are the same persons being excluded (because they are able to provide their own solution).
You keep going until you die..."Me".
Looks like John will be compensated for his time dealing with the unpleasant AOL account cancellation staff.
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http://features.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/
~Alexander
$15M suit. $8M after lawyers fees. Maximum take per customer that files is $250 (DOLLARS). This seems like the kind of lawsuit that serves no purpose whatsoever. Software modifies your computer, thats all there is to it. From what I gather, there's nothing malicious going on by AOL, they just got users that complained that the aol software:
-made itself default on the system. netscape tries todo this, hell even mozilla does this.
-makes computers more instable. last i knew, AOL runs on windows. if you install ANYTHING, ittl make windows less stable. thats part of the game.
-didnt allow users to connect to remote ISP's. this sounds like a DUN/RAS problem. so, readd the other ISP.
I'm probably oversimplifying the small details, but all in all, this is plain stupid.
People arent going to be taken seriously when real problems occur if people sue for this kind of stuff.
This translates to the right general effect
I really don't understand what you mean. If AOL gets screwed and they pass it off on the insurance co, and the insurance co passes it back by raising rates, do you think that AOL is the one getting screwed? Absolutly not. They are just going to raise thier prices, thus passing it back to the consumer.
Everyone seems to cheer when a big company gets screwed somehow, but I hate to see it personally. Every single time it's the consumer who ends up paying for it. It's just like when someone wins a $50 million dollar medical malpractice suit against a hospial. Everyone says "yeah, get 'em they are way over paid anyway". Is the hostpial really getting screwed? No, they just raise thier rates to pay for it. Who does that affect? The insurance co's. What do they do? Raise thier rates. Who does that affect? Usually our employers. What do they do? Stop paying for heath insurace for employees. So who got screwed by the malpractice suit? Us. Same thing here, who gets screwed by AOL paying out all kinds of cash? AOL customers, who are not the ones doing anything wrong. (nessisarily)
Sigs are out of style, so I'm not going to use one...oh wait..
I work at a ISP as a Tech support rep, the isp I work for is a 56k provider, any one that has Windows 95, 98 or ME, will have problems with AOL software 5 and version 4. This is what you do to fix it: 1. R&R Dial up Networking (DUN) Say no to version conflicts (in the control panel go to add remove programs) 2. R&R TCPIP and remove all AOL clients installed in your "Network" in the control panel. Make sure when you are done you have Client For Microsoft Networks, Dial Up Adapter and TCPIP. I normally reinstall everything But Dial Up adapter. Save and it will ask you for your windows cd or cabs, supply them and MAKE SURE YOU SAY "NO" to all version conflicts. It will ask to reboot say "No" 3. GO into msconfig and remove AOL from the startup of your computer!! Press yes and reboot! Now you should be all set! No more curruption. THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO CLEAN YOUR SYSTEM! And if this doesnt work you have alot of registry hacks to do... P.S. DO NOT OPEN AOL AGAIN or it will recurrupt your system! :)
keanmarine.com
"It is not modular."
Then use Galeon.
The masses are the crack whores of religion.
Ok your point is well made. Yes, eventually the costs are either eating into the profit margin or paid by the consumer. But I think you're carrying the analogy too far, health care is a different issue with more difficult implications.
If the effect is that consumers are paying a little more for "better" software then maybe it's worth it. How else are we going to get companies to write software that doesn't suck? I'm open to other ideas..
__ No registration required to read this message. They did it in the Matrix.
I work at a ISP as a Tech support rep, the isp I work for is a 56k provider, any one that has Windows 95, 98 or ME, will have problems with AOL software 5 and version 4. This is what you do to fix it:
:)
1. R&R (Remove and Reinstall) Dial up Networking (DUN) Say no to version conflicts (in the control panel go to add remove programs)
2. R&R TCPIP and remove all AOL clients installed in your "Network" in the control panel. Make sure when you are done you have Client For Microsoft Networks, Dial Up Adapter and TCPIP. I normally reinstall everything But Dial Up adapter. Save and it will ask you for your windows cd or cabs, supply them and MAKE SURE YOU SAY "NO" to all version conflicts. It will ask to reboot say "No"
3. GO into msconfig and remove AOL from the startup of your computer!! Press yes and reboot!
Now you should be all set! No more curruption. THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO CLEAN YOUR SYSTEM! And if this doesnt work you have alot of registry hacks to do...
P.S. DO NOT OPEN AOL AGAIN or it will recurrupt your system!
keanmarine.com
You really don't know of what you are talking about. If a browser with mail, composer and all the other stuff in 10mb is too much, then tell me how much you think IE fits in...
And M$ programs aren't separate from each others... they are all tied up in the OS.
And Mozilla is modular... you can choose what you wan't to install. On the other hand, in the M$ land, you can't uninstall the browser or mail program or anything at all... FULL BLOAT!
Cheers...
P.S.- And Mozilla is much better then IE!
I normally use them as monitor bases... 4 piles of cd's make a very nice and stable base...
Cheers...
Is still the comsumer. This is the first major lawsuit I can think of against a software developer that takes care of that ridiculous "we're not responsible for any damage our buggy POS software does to your PC" clause.
VIVA LA VICTOIRE!!!
I reckon we all deserve hefty compensation for having to the flood of morons AOL has unleashed onto the 'Net over the last five years.
"Yes, well, we were planning on increasing our price by $2 per month starting in July, so in lieu of sending out checks we'll only charge everyone $1 more for the month of July. From August on we will be charging the planned $2 increase."
It's a small comfort to those of us in Tech Support for and ISP, but.. man.. it's good to see that it didn't TOTALLY go unnoticed.
That stupid AOL Dialup Adapter caused us more headaches then all the people who couldn't remember their e-mail passwords in the history of the internet ever did.
(and SHOULD) put MS into bankruptcy
Then you are stuck with buggy and insecure software whose manufacturer has gone bankrupt. Are you really better off in this situation?
Except using AOL!
Actually I would say this is a windows problem for being able to replace DUN DLL's.
On the Mac there is an aol driver that looks like an ethernet card/dail-up(ppp) also there are different drivers for slip.
On the other hand, without any way to a company responsible for their incompetence, they will continue to be incompetent and then the consumers definately don't benefit.
There does need to be a balance...
30% of the settlement, or an equal share, which ever is less.
That's right up there with "Heads, I win. Tails, you lose."
Exactly!
__ No registration required to read this message. They did it in the Matrix.
How can this be serious? Loads of software that people install screws up there system but the eula always says that the company take no responsibility for any damaged caused. Out of all the things that software could do to bugger up you system, changing a few internet connection settings doesn't seem like that big a deal. Then again this is America, where people sue at the drop of a hat.
Your computer isn't worth all that much, neither is the software on it.
AOL didnt't really harm them.
While their practices may be disgusting, how much in damages are you looking to exact?
The only thing that this does is put a bunch of AOL employees in the unemployment category.
Sure, we can all use macs! *glances around* ...er, I mean linux!
I will now redundantly add my name to the end of my post. You know, in case you forgot me or something.
I believe the correct term for multiple AOLers is "snert."
Your statement should read: "the snert of morons AOL has unleashed..."
. .
Okay, it's 5am and I may not be 100% :)
What strikes me is that this settlement is irrelevant :
From discussion above, (Settlement - Legal Fees) / Complainants does not amount to a whole hill of beans for any individual, let alone even real compensation for the time and effort involved in fixing the settings which were hijacked. I agree also that the way that the complainants have to get a "receipt" for their troubles from another ISP is bumkum.
Okay, that notwithstanding, none of this has any benefit to the consuer _at large_ because it was a settlement between private parties.
If it had been a _ruling_ and some case law / precedent were set, then other companies planning this might have to take note and stop hijacking people's configurations.
Maybe I'm missing something about US law, but this strikes me as just a payoff to a few lawyers and a bunch of complainants who bothered to do their (pretty ridiculous) paperwork. If it's just a private settlement, there's nothing to say it will discourage anyone from using the same unplesant practises in future.
Oh well, since when did "public good" pay anyone's bills . . . .
Mozilla kicks major ass over IE....I can uninstall Mozilla if I choose...
I use to be a Windows user at work and at home....now I'm a Linux user, who uses Mozilla...
As far as AOL goes....well let's just say I no longer have a learning permit to drive :)
"Look where we worship" -- Jim Morrison
What the!
"Look where we worship" -- Jim Morrison
dewd, they like make awesome coasters...
"Look where we worship" -- Jim Morrison
I used AOL for nearly 5 years. I am not a fan of their service, but still maintain an account because my girlfriend prefers it. I used to do tech support at a call center that supported several major laptop manufacturers. Every night I would fight the very problems (not as many as an ISP fights I'm sure) described in this suit and then go home and sign onto AOL myself. However, I had several reasons:
1. I'm not sure of the limit today, but they used to allow you to send up to 35 meg attachments you could also do this multiple times. On more than one occasion I had over 100 meg in my inbox.
2. they were very early in their implementation of web based email (yes, i used hotmail and places like that too in the past, but the file size limitation often got in the way.)
3. In the old days (I definately can't say this anymore) the junk mail, for some reason, seemed to be a lot less on that account compared to hotmail, yahoo, etc.
4. Uptime - i don't think i can remember a time that the main AOL service being down caused any problems for me.
5. admittedly, dial-up to AOL can be somewhat problematic depending on the quality of the local number, but AOL combined with a local ISP for a BYOA (bring your own access) account provided a lot of flexibility.
6. this point is not near as valid as it used to be, but the AOL only content that used to be offered was much higher quality overall than a lot of what was offered on the internet in general. (I'm pretty sure I'm going to hear about this one)
My main point in all of this is not to say AOL is great... far from it. I am saying that it has merits that can benefit the advanced user as well as the novice user that thinks AOL is the entire internet.
anyone remember the commecial where the guy says "My friend told me to get AOL, I said why I've already got a computer."
that one always cracked me up:)
They're probably going to do this at some point, it's just a matter of time. Initially they chose the benefits of making it all one app for sharing data more easily between components. But now the complications incurred by having to support every app's preferences and keyboard shortcuts will probably result is us seeing a stripped down browser (mozilla/browser) as well as autonomous mail/news and chat clients post 1.0.
It just takes picking a different chrome file to load when starting the app. All it will really amount to is the same apps just running in separate processes - they all need the same libraries. So they'll end up sharing pages and using a similar amount of ram separated as when they were joined.
I am one of the poor souls that had to switch to MSN thanks to Qwest for my dialup support (rural MT, and Qwest was fast and stable for a 56k connection.) The required M$ software totally ursurped my dialup networking, I cannot find any way to uninstall it when I change to a new provider, of course I can't check email with mozilla and have to use wonderful Outlook, and along with several other annoyances, I can't even close msn messenger down because it is used be other programs. How is this really any different than AOL? We have less and less control of our rights every day while these large organizations try to manipulate everything we do with our lives.....shrug, welcome to corporate america I guess.....
1. When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend.
2. Do not eat iPod shuffle.
Have you read Right to read yet?
I'm trying to remember when it began. Which version of Windows was it that detected the presence of OS/2 on the hard drive and offered to remove it "to free up disk space?"
I'm sick to death of competitive installations. When I put my mouse over an "upgrade software now" button I feel like I'm playing Russian roulette and am just about to pull the trigger.
What are the chances that I'm going to disable something else I use? Yes, there's a huge grey area: sometimes the effect is innocently (bad SQA). Sometimes it's semi-intentional, the software equivalent of the car rental clerk saying "sign here" over a page of 50%-gray type on a 33%-grey background. You know, what does this gobbledegook about 'making the the default application for opening your media files' mean? I guess I'll just push the return key and take the default....
Sometimes I think it's intentional. Hey, we're just sharp, competitive businessmen, kicking competitors in the groin is what made this country great...
I think needs at the very least to be a "truth-in-installation" law. The installer should disclose clearly, in plain language, EVERYTHING it's going to do in terms that are meaningful to the consumer. ("Increase stability, and, oh, yes, enforce the license agreement by technical means and, by the way, send information to us over the Internet which, according to our just-changed privacy policy we can share with our trusted partners...)
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
Me: ha, ha.. largest quarterly loss ever.
Geek (rich): I know, I know.. I still made money in the long run.
Designer: what?
Me: AOL
Designer: AOL SUCKS!
Geek (rich): I hear they're going to acquire Cox.
Designer: Ten inches and longer?
Geek (rich): Netscape, Time Warner, what next?
Designer: NETSCAPE SUCKS!
Best Windows Freeware
A tech actually told the latter line about Mozilla when I asked how I could access my mail account with a user name like "Erris@mycoputer". I ended up using fetchmail to get around the stupid set up, and the blocked incomming port 25, but the tech did NOT help me.
AOL has to go to all of these lenghts because M$ will break their client if they do not. That fact makes this whole lawsuit a bunch of BULLSHIT. TWO PIECES OF SOFTWARE DID NOT WORK TOGETHER. ONE OF THEM REFUSES TO WORK WITH SOFTWARE FROM MANY OTHER COMPANIES, AND OLDER VERSIONS OF THEIR OWN SOFTWARE. WHICH PIECE OF SOFTWARE DO YOU THINK WAS AT FAULT IN THIS CASE?
Yes, I'm an AOL user. I've had an account for freaking ever. I access it through AOL anywhere with Mozilla on any computer with a browser. My OS preference is Debian. There is much AOL could do better, but there's not much they can do about their M$ client software.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
How about a lawsuit against M$ for letting it happen? It's their googey system that boned everyone. They built a userless OS with a flimsy registry that any software can stick any old binary crap into but will break your computer. They did it so they could force MSN, AOL used the exact same mechanisms. The whole Hell Desk thing is a direct result of this kind of intentional push. Is is AOL's fault M$ spagetti coded everything to break if you want an ISP that is not M$?
Look at the numbers. Are one in ten techs at your ISP on standby for Apple calls? How about Linux? No? How about the number of acutal calls? Apple, Linux, BSD, Solaris, not giving you problems? Hmmmmm, that's a wide spectrum of users that don't have this and other kinds of problems. What do the majority of calls have in common? NEXT!
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
the real winner in this is the lawyers. they get almost half.
-c
Time for someone to sue New.NET over this crap? I need to reinstall my box because of Eww.NET-alikes hijacking my browser...
--joshua
Is is AOL's fault M$ spagetti coded everything to break if you want an ISP that is not M$?
Did you read the article? DUN (Microsoft's Dial Up Networking applet) isn't the problem, here.
DUN works fine with non-MS ISPs. Other ISPs are not on trial here for screwing up settings with their broken proprietary software.
Or is your idea of a real ISP someone who forces you to install a proprietary dialer and other software that tracks your usage and tries to market to you, and also uses proprietary protocols for mail, etc.?
This isn't talk radio. Get a clue, or at least read the article, before you spew. It is definitely AOL's fault, not only for releasing buggy code, but for denying that it was a problem for days and weeks afterwords, after it became public knowledge and we began warning our customers. You would be all over Microsoft if they did this; why are you defending AOL?
Look at the numbers. Are one in ten techs at your ISP on standby for Apple calls? How about Linux? No? How about the number of acutal calls?
*nix installs, with the exception of OSX, are not sufficiently end-user-friendly enough for us to do much troubleshooting for customers. Just think of where all your RPMs might be, whether your permissions are set properly, etc. Oh, yah, and do you think maybe the reason that a huge number of our calls are for MS Windows boxes is because almost all of our end users use MS Windows, anyway? Mac users would know to delete and rebuild if things get "corrupted" (they "corrupt" more often than our MS users) and *nix users either know how to administer their systems or have admins on staff.
Get off my launchpad!
Eh? I am over M$. Their crap banished to a network blind computer in the corner of my room that talks to cameras and a scanner. A real OS is used on the same machine to transfer files off it.
The reason that is so is because I got sick of rebuilding broken M$ garbage. M$ built a flimsy OS so that it would easier to replace than fix. Face it, most people who actually use and rely on M$ junk have to rebuild their computer once every two months or so, or it gets all slow and broken. If AOL's stuff broke M$ it's M$'s fault, period. If M$ had a reasonable OS it would not be broken that way, all the time. If every M$ software maker was held to this standard, they would all be hit, especially M$. Show me one Win95 or 98 box that has been used that has not required a rebuild. Don't tell me w2k is any better, I'm forced to use that buggy junk at work.
Oh, yah, and do you think maybe the reason that a huge number of our calls are for MS Windows boxes is because almost all of our end users use MS Windows, anyway?
I think 10% of your users have macs, and at leat 7% use Linux. If 1 in 6 of your calls are not about mac or linux problems, you can be sure that what people say about M$ being crap is true.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
just a note, if you find ieradicator (dont have a link here) you can uninstall msie, however it leaves the html engine in (its the part thats tied into everything) but you can uninstall oulook express with no trouble at all without even a patch.
I think it is entirely possible that only 35,000 will file claims.
Coding Blog
umm no, if they open AOL it repairs its self and currupts the system again (AOL fixes its self)
keanmarine.com