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E3 Controller Previews
spides writes: "If you thought the original X-Box controller was huge, you're in for a rude awakening. At E3 this past week, Microsoft and Capcom unveiled their 40 button control station for the X-Box's 'realistic' mech simulator Steel Battalion. On the same day, Nintendo and Sega unveiled the new keyboard peripheral for use with the Gamecube version of Phantasy Star Online, which can only be described as the world's largest conventional controller with a keyboard stuck between the directional pad and the usual buttons."
except in the case of xbox controllers. i guess those developers must be giants over at redmond..
Me email iz skyewalkerluke at microsoft's free email service.
Um... what's with the gear shift on the far left?!? At least it looks like an automatic... though I guess it could be handy to be able to pop the clutch on my battle mech ;)
Behold the Power of Cheese!
Many have probably noticed that every MS peripheral is BIG!
For example, the MS Intellimouse Explorer which is double the size of a standard mouse... nice at start, but a small mouse just fits better...
The Natural Keyboard which is double the size of keyboards (tho it's pretty good!)
And ofcourse, every version of Windows just doubles it's size... WinXP is around how much for minimal install? 1GB?
^_^
Sorry guys, this is about the coolest things i've seen to come out for any console in a while. I LOVE realistic mech sims, especially the capsules at dave & busters. Tossed salad those things are COOL. Imagine a big 'ol futuristic chamber you step in, with multiple monitors displaying the different systems in the mech universe (heat, weapons, damage, nav, ect) Managing all these different systems is what makes a mech game fun.
Back to the story though, yeah I really like this thing. It will probably be easy to cut the cable and adapt it to pc use (since xbox is usb) plus the price drop we had last week, I want one now.
Just what I needed, a controller that requires 6 additional hands to operate. Hopefully it won't be grossly oversized and also require replacement of my current hands (like the current X-box controller).
I read the internet for the articles.
Apparently someone let antigames come into contact with some games, and the resulting explosion slashdotted their server.
--
E_NOSIG
"We have historically seen the game industry pave the trail for the military. Doom. Quake. Combat. The list goes on."
Does it? I thought the idea of using rockets and machine guns and assault rifles came during the Second World War, silly me, it came from id software.
"I think that the next thing we can expect is military vehicles with this kind of high-tech controller. Imagine a tank or helicopter with 40 buttons."
From the fighters, cargo planes and helicopters I've seen, there are more than 40 buttons in the cockpit.
"but names like Sony and Linux are going to be very important to security and stability in this new world we are forging."
Names like Colt, Armalite, Boeing, BAe, Airbus, General Dynamics Land Systems and FLIR are going to be much more important.
my Dell gamebox has a 108 key game pad.
thelikesofwhich.com
I'm pretty sure Capcom realizes that this isn't going to sell a million copies, it's not like they're trying to compete with Mario here. This controller is meant for one game and one game only, and it's supposed to simulate a mech. I'd say that this custom controller is probably better than immersing you in that experience than a keyboard and mouse would be. Give them some credit for having the balls to put money into the development of something completely different (that probably won't sell) while most other devs are just trying to copy the hot title of the month.
courtesy of Something Awful:
e ndo/controller.jpg
http://www.somethingawful.com/news/8-28-2000/nint
~jeff
Is it just me, or does anyone else want to avoid paying $30+ for a controller you can only use for one game, on top of the $50+ price tag for the game itself?
I could see it if they had a "generic" keyboard controller you could use for any games with a keyboard... but having to purchase a new game (no doubt bundled with the new controller) over and over will become tedious, if it is the route consoles are taking.
I would like to see an alternative to these... button/direction combos, or on-screen keyboards, however tedious they may be, simply so there is a lower-cost option.
Then again these are the types of things you can always pick up at a super cheap price from used games stores like FunCoLand a year or so later, so maybe it's not all bad...
Mark
Obligatory Penny Arcade links:
Obligatory link number one.
Number two.
Here /. effect is preventing you from seeing the other one.
is another review if the
My dodecatentacle controller allows me to operate in 7 distinct universes simultaneously!!! All kneel to my superiority !!!.
Now I need a midget to lug this shit around for me.
This controller is better.
I don't know about you, but i want to be able to *compose* on my x-box.
using namespace slashdot;
troll::post();
I wonder how long it will be before the console game world realizes that a good solid keyboard and a small, comfortable mouse are the best controllers available.
Right after everyone who play console games starts sitting in front of a table.
Found this elsewhere:
The 40-button behemoth
-Andrew
What's next, Russia joins the NATO alliance?
Oh, wait...
Man is the future weird
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
i'll say this up front, im looking forward to the new games coming out for the x-box, because most of what's out so far was quickly produced and not designed to make the most out of what the console can do.
;)
i will also gladly pay 49 a year for the online service and headset, i think the VoIP factor of their service will make interaction over the service a step above the other 2's plans.
and i have to say that the screenshots and review of this game look and sound like it will be absolutely incredible... but there is no way in hell im paying 150-300 for 1 game... i'll just wait till they realize they aren't selling at that price, and pick it up for $99.99 with the controller a few months after the release (hopefully)
It's amazing how Nintendo put enough thought into the development of the GameCube to make it keyboard ready.
All they need now is the ability to plug a tape drive into the keyboard, and they'll catch back up to where they were back in the early 1980's with the Famicom.
Who know, maybe even NS-HUBASIC (Nintendo, Sharp, Hudson) will be updated for the GameCube one of these days.... Okay, so probably not. The point stands, Nintendo tried the console-computer-entertainment-center thing way before PS2 or X-Box. This time around, don't count on seeing Gamecube try to pretend it's anything besides a game console.
Is it just me, or does anyone else want to avoid paying $30+ for a controller you can only use for one game, on top of the $50+ price tag for the game itself?
There have been several games in the past where the price of the controller is more than the game itself, but the controller literally makes the game. I can think of two examples right now: Dance Dance Revolution (or any bemani game) and Samba de Amigo. Both of these games are fun in and of themselves with the standard controller, but throw in the peripherals, and stand back!
I, for one, spent $50 on Samba then $100 on two sets of maracas. (You heard me correctly. Maracas.) It's an instant party, and a unique game experience you really can't duplicate any other way. Sometimes it's worth it to spend.
Where the wind blows, the tumbleweed goes.
Spreadin' the load around:
Armchair Empire preview
The Controller In Question
It looks to me like this game, an XBox, and the controller would be the best $300 mech simulator ever. That, plus Rallycross, might just push me into getting one.
-- Jeff Paulsen
pretty: http://www.gamespy.com/e32002/image.asp?/e32002/xb ox/sb/7.jpg
_ id=1513230&object_id=481366&channel_id=73&page_tit le=E3+2002%3A+Steel+Battalion&adtag=network%3Dign% 26pagetype%3Darticle%26site%3Dxboxviewer&return_ur l=http%3A%2F%2Fxbox.ign.com%2Fobjects%2F481%2F4813 66.html
non-pretty: http://mediaviewer.ign.com/ignMediaPage.jsp?media
I love the self destruct button, encased in a little clear plastic box, Spaceballs style.
Th
I couldn't IMAGINE playing Tekki/Steel Battalion on a keyboard/mouse combo. It would be an utter nightmare trying to coordinate all the degrees of motion the game offers on that kind of rig. You control your aim independently of your motion which is independent of your vision. Can you imagine doing that on a KB/mouse?
I grew up in a Bally's arcade. I still know every Street Fighter II move, every Mortal Kombat move and finishing move and most morphs, animalities, friendships and so forth....
But with that said on to my question. I remember this game we got from Namco (which I believe owned or partially owned the arcade). It was two players, sit down, speakers behind the head death match style.
Polygon-al (you could probably count them on both hands) and you drove around these little Star Fox looking ships.
For the life of me I can't remember what it was called and I'll donate all my Karma to anyone who can tell me.
It was so nice because of the realism (in control of course because you couldn't live through some of these crashes and I've never seen planes like this).
Even though I didn't use a question mark yet I guess I'm wondering what the XP it was called.
Get your Unix fortune now!
Sweet, is that a jog dial I see in the middle? Finally, we can play pong and arkanoid properly once they come out!
There's a thing to be said about blanket statements like that...
FPS games work best with a keyboard mouse, but how about a fighting game? And then there's other options, like a trackball for marble madness or the many other alternatives mentioned in the comments.
It depends on the game, and it just happens that PC games are developed with the KB and mouse in mind and console games are developed with controllers in mind. When Morrowind comes out for XBOX, it will be interesting to see how much it changes simply to accomodate the controller.
Robots are everywhere, and they eat old people's medicine for fuel.
Maybe this is some kind of strategy on the part of the game makers to "lock in" people to their games or gaming genres. If you buy a SuperWidget controller to play StarGenre, aren't you more inclined to buy StarGenre II vs. PlanetChase I, which also has a custom controller?
I also wonder if its not a way to get more profit out of a given game. I know that you pay money to develop software for gaming platforms, but does hardware have the same royalty setup? Can I sell a PS2 controller without kicking back to Sony the way I would if I wanted to develop games for it? I can't believe the lawyers wouldn't have been on top of this one, but hey, even they miss.
I wonder if they will come out with an equivalent to Stack Up that uses these new controllers so that it at least is tied with R.O.B. in usefulness!
mark
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe. -- Carl Sagan
Regarding "Steel Battalion"... people need to see what the controller is before they comment on it. It's not a 40-button gamepad, for goodeness' sake. It's more of a flighstick-from hell. Two joysticks, foot petals, different toggles, switches... even a little hatch-protected eject button. Follow the links above before you shoot off your mouth. ^_^
I played really-quick (about five minutes), so I can't say much about the actual game, other then... well, its very sim-ey, and horribly complex.... which I'm all for. It seems to be the polar opposite of the XBox Battletech game, so everyone might be satisfied come this fall (and we haven't even mentioned the Robotech game, heh). I thought it was really neat, but, honestly, it may very well end up being a poor game with a neat concept. It's fun to play pretend with that set-up, however. ^_-
(Personally, I adore the idea; this is something I've always wanted, ever since I read about those Battletech pods at the CES, years & years ago.)
Damnit, it is right between just right and a tad wee bit to small.
:)
.
:) )
Since when the heck did midgets become the number one player of console games? Yeesh.
Now the one fault that I _DO_ have with the X-Box controller (and all of the other next gen console system controllers for that matter) is how few buttons the player can access at once.
I remember on the SNES controller that you could push any of 4 out of 6 buttons, not half bad. On the N64 controller it was (uh, 1,2,3,4,5,6) out of 8 buttons at once. Kick ass.
On the X-Box it is like 3 or 4 out of how ever many. Yah I know the main analog joystick also presses down, but it is SOO awful that you likely change the joysticks heading at the same time. NOT a good thing, sorry, doesn't count. Not to mention how fricking dinky some of those buttons are, yeesh. Talk about all pad and no buttons!
The PS2 has the same problem that the PS1 did, dinky ass controller, makes me feel like I am using a Pocket Gameboy to control my Console with. Ick. Cramped as hell.
The original N64 controller SEEMED like it was a pain in the ass, and indeed I got an alternate controller and used it for quite some time, but after awhile I was forced to go back to the original pack-in controller and I then realized how kick-ass it was. Yah!
The GameCube has a similar problem to the X-Box, not nearly enough buttons can be pushed at once. But then again Lord Miyamoto says that he plans on designing games that require less buttons to play, so I am not going to complain too much about that one. If the entire console is designed for fewer buttons then OK, but the other consoles out there seem dedicated to using all of the buttons on the control pad but just bunching them up in remote clusters around a pad and making the whole entire thing horribly unergonomic. Yuck.
On the plus side, 40 key gamepads will be quite nice. When I was well into playing Half-Life (since given it up, CS is so painfully slow compared to the frantic strategic action of HLDM) I had at least 20 keys bound on my keyboard and a nine button mouse. . .
;D
(I still have my two original NES advantage joysticks, yes, two of them. Now THOSE where some well built controllers!
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
If you say FPS then yes, kb/mouse is prolly the best combination to control your game. But on console platforms, the true PC-style fps is only a small segment of the market, because generally the audience of consoles is younger and more attracted to fantasy instead of hardcore realism. I'm not saying there are no FPS games on console platforms, I'm just saying there are not a lot of them out there. I think for the overall kind of arcade console gameplay, a decent playstation2 controller is as good as they get.
With great power comes great electricity bills.
From the press release:
The KeyMouse XP is the worlds first mouse to integrate a 120 key keyboard inside a mouse. This gives the user the advantage of not having to switch between keyboard and mouse - a repetitive movement which costs the user time and productivity.
The keyboard is located between the left and right mouse buttons.
When asked how difficult this new mouse would be to handle Logitech would only say that the user would need a really big-ass mousepad.
"They do not preach that their god will rouse them, a little before the Nuts work loose." Kipling, 'The Sons of Martha'
The cool thing about Atari's pad was that it was designed to take different overlay templates for the buttons. Thus, once you had the pad the games only needed to bundle an appropriate template you could overlay on the pad.
This has the obvious advantage of making on controller re-useable, but it also meant buttons were correctly labled for the game - rather than having buttons AA through ZZ Alpha Plural Beta Z.
"They do not preach that their god will rouse them, a little before the Nuts work loose." Kipling, 'The Sons of Martha'
I have to differ with you on the Playstation controller. I'm a pretty big guy with large (some say, "ham-sized") hands, and the Playstation controller is simply the best controller ever, IMHO. The sheer ergonomics of the controller were perfect. All buttons were within easy reach, and the controller was small enough to fit perfectly in the grip. I'm not as big a fan of the original Dual-Shock Analog Playstation controller, as I thought the analog sticks threw the ergonomics off, but I could deal with it for analog control and the vibration functionality. However, the PS2 controller is totally sweet. 255 levels of sensitivity in each button makes for delightful analog button-pusing control, and the analog sticks were tightened up to a usable point. I realize that YMMV, but for my money, the PS2 controller is the only way to fly.
Do not trust the X-Box controller. It is malfunctioning. The PS2 controller will protect you from the terrible secret of space. Do you have stairs in your house?
49 20 68 61 76 65 20 74 6F 6F 20 6D 75 63 68 20 66 72 65 65 20 74 69 6D 65 2E
I wonder how long it will be before the console game world realizes that a good solid keyboard and a small, comfortable mouse are the best controllers available.
I would agree with this, except that for most action games that aren't FPS's, then a Keyboard and mouse sucks.
Here's a good example. Go get yourself a copy of any of the Street fighter games for the console of your choice. Take a few minutes to get comfortable with the controller, especially if you have a joystick/thumbstick directional controller.
Now go find Mame rom for that game and play it with your keyboard.
It *can* be done. I frequently boot up Capcom vs. Marvel when I'm waiting on a download to let out with some Wolverine-style agression. It would be so much more pleasant if I had a little arcade-style joystick that sat on the left side of my keyboard.
I should just go buy one. *sigh*
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
My hands aren't big and I love those controllers. It fits well in my hands.
$150 for the package is sort of the high end...
Otherwise, you'll be paying more for this one game than you will for the XBox itself.
Heck, that might be a great promo: Buy Steel Battalion and get XBox for free!
Instead of 40+ button controllers. Why not have a controller that'll spit blood on your hands and/or on your face everytime you kill those ugly zombies? :)
I also got to play with this at E3 and agree with the above poster. I thought I would explain the workings of the controller a little for those that care.
The left stick is for turning. It is left right only (no up/down). The right stick is for aiming your gun. It moves in all 4 directions. The right stick has 2 thumb buttons and a trigger. The thumb buttons are lock-on and missles, the trigger is machinegun. On the far left of the controller there is a shifter for forward gears and reverse. There are three pedals on the floor - gas, brake and the third was not used on the demoed build of the game.
Play impressions: When you start, you actually have to start up your mech. you have to flick several switches and then hit a series of startup buttons. Once you start moving around, there is a nice sense of controlling something large and lumbering. This is nothing like virtual-on from sega. Everything in the environment is destructible. Overall the game was very very deep ad seemed to have a lot of potential. You can even get going too fast and when you turn your mech falls over - oops. I wanted to stay and play for a while but my demo ended and I was forced to share.
I watched the capcom rep play and that was something amazing. It showed that you can master it and use the massive controller in a functional way. The HUD is very intrusive. but not in a bad way. It uses about 1/3 of the screen to show status of weapon system, maps, main display etc. It actually gives you the sense that you are viewing the forward display from with in the mech. The capcom guy was constantly shifting weapons and such - knowing intuitively what to hit on the controller. There is even a "wash window" button for when your display screen has been crudded up from battle. Overall very impressive. If the expense is not too great, I will pick up this one for my xbox.
-matt
Forget even buying it. No big-box store (Circuit City, Best Buy, etc...) will waste the shelf-space to stock both the game and that controller.
At best you'll be able to mail-order it. Whatever marketing-rep thought that mondo-controller would be a good idea is soon to be working on their r
Does anybody remember the one-handed controller for the PS a couple years back? I believe it was the ASCII Grip. Sure it was unruly, and not dual-shock, but for a good RPG, it was ideal. You could sit back and eat some popcorn/chips/bacon and not get your controller all greasy/salty/nasty, etc. Although I never had one (and judging by the way it went out of production, neither did anyone else), I seriously considered getting one, and now every time I'm playing a console RPG, kick myself for not buying the only one I ever saw for sale.
- Relativistic? That's barely Newtonian!
Buy the Namco Arcade Stick for the Playstation and a PSX->PC USB convertor. This combination works in Linux and it's a solid joystick with good tactile response.
Don't forget about the ultra-cool add-on that allowed you to play Atari games! Still got that one around, too.
But what they really need is multiple monitor/TV support, so you can have the main view and a couple of status views ... now THAT would kick ass ... along with this keyjoythrottlestickdevice ...
Karma? Karma? I don't need no stinkin' karma.
Jon's post isn't quite correct... (and Nintendo's article seems a bit misinformed, too) There's going to be a "Phantasy Star Online Episode I & II" for both Gamecube and Xbox, which will contain all the content of the Dreamcast's PSO v2 as well as two new areas, three new character classes, improved graphics, new (and much better) models for some weapons, and a few other tweaks.
;-)
They haven't talked much about gameplay tweaks, but maybe if we're lucky, they'll do something interesting like give Forces an inherent advantage in magic over other classes (faster casting times, access to better spells that others can't use -- PSOv2's level 30 spells don't count -- etc). Or maybe they'll make slicers not suck. Or find some way to eliminate cheating...
But, er, ignore my rantings, I'm a PSO junkie.
Karma: Terrifying (mostly affected by atrocities you've committed)
I know it's probably coincidence, but I worked on a mecha game called Steel Legions back in 1997-1998
It died a death (and I moved on), but here's a list of the realism features it had when I left it:
Sounds impressive huh? Thinking back, it was damn impressive. So why did it never get published? The usual reasons: we were pushing too many polygons with too shoddy an engine; it was a great simulation, but not a great game; we ran out of money.
The second point is the most interesting one. We quickly discovered that the most effective (but aggravating) enemy was a piddly little infantry soldier hiding in a bush with a laser designator and a radio, while the big shiney enemy mecha sat unseen behind a hill crest, firing missiles or mortars from defilade.
Likewise, any realistic model of accuracy and damage (based on contemporary tank systems) means one shot = one hit = one kill, for the biggest weapon systems. If you're in the mecha equivelant of a T-72 up against an M1A2, your only possible option is to never be in a position where it can see you. That's a great illustration of the futility of fighting a stand up war against a technologically superior enemy (as the Iraqi tank battalions learned in the Gulf), but it makes for a hell of a frustrating game.
I'll be very interested to see what Steel Battalions is like, but I rather suspect that it's complex or fully featured as opposed to actually realistic.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.