Slashdot Mirror
Long-Term Effects of Weightlessness
MartinBartinFargo writes "The Age has an article detailing the long-term effects of weightlessness on the human body. Stage 1 of the European Space Agency study involved 14 male volunteers spending 3 months carrying out all activities whilst lying on their backs, Stage 2 is currently underway. "
So lying on your back conducting all activities makes one weightless? Guess I should tell her to get on top more often...
--Look behind you.
the European Space Agency study involved 14 male volunteers spending 3 months carrying out all activities whilst lying on their backs,
Well, when the female volunteers start up, I'll be willing to help the poor things with whatever they need.
Moneyed corporations, non-working 'poor' and criminal prisoners are turning productive citizens into tax-slaves.
profit
Can't they just look at hospital records of people who are forced to stay on their backs for 6 months or more? The muscles atrophy. I don't see how this equates to weightlessness, unless they compare weighted atrophy against weightless atrophy.
Few people realize the psychological impact of long space flights, especially the lack of human contact. I mean, even the INTERNET couldn't kill the boredom.
I am the evil aardvark!
This article never really said anything. What worked? What didn't? Was there any data collected or did they do this for fun? Does anybody have a link to a scientific article that actually explains what they found out?
...And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me." - Martin Niemoeller (1892-1984)
>14 male volunteers spending 3 months carrying out all activities whilst lying on their backs
Well, now we know where the staff of Ain't It Cool News was this spring.
But this sounds very similar to how I telecommute...
"If you cannot get rid of the family skeleton, you may as well make it dance." -George Bernard Shaw
I would suspect that the Russians know a thing or two about this, as they tend to keep their kosmonauts in space much longer than anyone else dares to. However, I can imagine a couple of reasons why they wouldn't be inclined to share their information; long-term weightlessness seems not to be very healthy, and the fact that they have exposed their people to those may not be good for their image.
---
Due to circumstances beyond your control, you are master of your fate
and captain of your soul.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
To anyone who is/was/used to be a mudder, that means that at the end of the three months, you're hoarding every purple shard, excalibur, Hand of Glory, ball of wisdom, soul slasher, holy grail and every other piece of limited eq in the game, have 10 months of rent, have Calaron, Keogh, Shasta, Coastie and a slew of other wizzies/arches pissed at you and have been accused of scripting approximately 200 times. =)
When in doubt, parenthesize. At the very least it will let some poor schmuck bounce on the % key in vi. (Larry Wall)
The volunteers needed a certain mental elasticity.
You can say that again... I'm not altogether sure if I could muster the self-control needed to remain in one stationary position for three entire months. Remember tornado drills in school? I had the damnedest time keeping still, hunched over with my hands protecting my neck--and that was only for what, five or ten minutes? And these volunteers aren't even astronauts... so they don't even have "the right stuff" going for them! They're just postmen, builders, teachers and whatnot! What a bunch of crazy bastards.
Boffin: Lets run through those results...
Egghead: Test 1 - Watching TV while lying on back. No adverse physical side-effects.
Boffin: Test 2 - Drinking beer while lying on back. No adverse physical side-effects.
Egghead: Test 3 - Disposing of body's waste gases while lying on back. No adverse physical side-effects.
Boffin: We conclude that these human males are perfectly suited to weightlessness.
http://www.davetansley.com - you proba
I've wanted to drop 50 pounds for months, and if they'd take me, I could get rid of them all!
$20,000 for three months? Wow. That sure beats those cheapskates at NASA; they only spent $100 / day, or ~$9,000 for the three months.
a physical path between 2 points in phase space is the one satisfying the minimal action principle.
Working for necessity's mother.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
like in the 2001 movie and countless SciFi stories, as rotating wheels which make their own artificial gravity? Jogging around the endless loop / track would be great exercise.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
222$ per day.
It should be read as "spending 3 months carrying out all activities whilst lying on their bucks"
at least as described in "the moon is a harsh mistress" is that reduced weight environs, such as the moon, prolong life indefinitely. although my gut feeling is that prolonged weightlessness would be very bad for you -- atrophied muscles and the like -- perhaps the benefits of your organs not cramming into one another constantly, and your back not being hunched down, and the ease of pressure on the joints... maybe it's not too far fetched?
-rp
$20,000 for three months? Wow. That sure beats those cheapskates at NASA; they only spent $100 / day, or ~$9,000 for the three months.
This is indeed a generous amount. However, bear in mind that you'd also suffer fallout at work from taking a 3-month sabbatical, and you'll spend weeks regaining the ability to move or do anything strenuous for more than a few tens of minutes at a stretch.
The good news is that this still beats having to sit around in true zero-g, which would do even nastier things to your body (in bed you still have to exert effort to lift things with your hands, to roll over, to breathe (to some extent), etc.).
I know that having the subjects lie on their backs is the best simulation of weightlessness over time, but it seems like a poor substitute. Their bodies are being stressed by gravity that would not be present in space. That difference could lead to either more of less 'health' over the long term. In low muscle exertion environments (I made that term up:), a little stress may increase bone degeneration or may be a catalyst for bone growth. I think the only way to get true results may be study people on the space station, which I believe is being done...
Business News and Resources: www.usasource.net
It ain't even microgravity.
We've been sending astronauts into space for extended periods. I'm sure NASA and the Russians are studying them.
Who funded this nonsense?
But i'm sure some /.'s still couldn't get their karma to 50 in 3 months...
"the men were each equipped with a mobile phone and an Internet-linked computer"
dmarien
I wouldn't do it. I kind of like my limbs as they are: usable. I'm not sure how a sack of fluid for a calf can be walked upon, and I don't really want to know. This is going to make missions to Mars and other long-term space exploration really hard, this being more of an obstacle than any other facets.
Liora
Did it not occur to them that there are platforms on which they could test the effects of prolonged weightlessness? Or that studies have been done, including similar lab studies. Oh, well.
-- Two men say they're Jesus. One of them must be wrong. - Dire Straits
...well, now we know what happend to all the laid-off dotcom programmers.
Take note of how the article points out these candidates were put through rigorous tests before being selected. They wanted ones that had some specific characteristics for mental elastisty. Those are some pretty rough demands.
Here, after only 3 months, the one individual interviewed (which we don't know which group he was in,) was in rough shape when it came time to get back on his feet. It sounds like we've got along way to go, to get someone whose capable of remaining in microgravity for 2 years, in order to get to Mars. That, or we're going to have to design a ship that employs some form of gravity simulator.
It's good to see progress, but we're still a long way from being able to send men to Mars.
Awk! Pieces of eight. Pieces of eight. Pieces of seven... ERROR: General Protection Fault. [Paroty Error.]
Actually there were everyday physical exercises onboard spacestation Mir for kosmonauts so it can't be compared to this experiment. And most of kosmonauts still in good physical condition.
You can't compare result on Earth with experience on space station.
And, Yes - Russians know much more about longtime space effects that all other nations combined.
You must build HUGE space station to make noticable artificial gravity.It is not possible with current cost to deliver goods on orbit.
thank you Mr. Astro-Physicist.
... hi bingo
They should study me i think i stayed in my chair for about 6 months after civ III came out. I think im ok. I am very fragele now and bleed whenever i brush up against stuff but at least i can take over the world with my grand army
Nevertheless, organisers believe that, as well as helping astronauts, there should also be benefits for long-term hospital patients confined to their beds.
Since there is still gravity in play, I'd say hospital patients are the real targets for this research....
"Only one thing, is impossible for god: to find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." Mark Twain
Wait european women dont do that anyways.... nevermind.
I understand that muscles can atrophy from lack of stress while in a weightless environment for prolonged periods, but surely there are creative enough engineers to design exercise equipment which doesn't require gravity to provide the resistance. Bowflex and similar machines use elastic bands to provide resistance. It seems like astronauts should be able to avoid muscular atrophy with a well designed fitness program.
Am I missing something?
-- Adam
I wonder if they had the death trigger program (See earlier article) set up just in case one of them choked something while trying to eat on their backs.
One of them mentions in the article something about viewing it as a personal challenge. Yeah, every morning I wake up and say "I think I'll lie in bed for 3 months. Why? Because it's there."
With my dying breath, I curse Zoidberg!
Well, I am not sure who is reading what, but my understanding is that the mission duration for travel between earth and mars at optimal launch time/window is only 6-7 months using current technology. The return is dependent on many things, but can be similar or up to 18 months.
If the go ahead for nuclear propulsion, or alternatley some breakthrough in Ionic propulsion, is given, that trip time can be cut in half or more.
Ohh, they don't like the truth at all do they?
No Comment.
Like slashdot, they post the same stories again and again...
What do they care, it's your tax dollars!
I am not a number! I am a man! And don't you
You would need a far larger space station for this type of rotation to feel natural for the station's inhabitants.
For example... if we would do this to the Mir space station, the difference in "gravity" between the top of the station and the bottom of the station would be sixfold. Your body would be pulled in wierd ways.
Read more about it on your favorite science site, or where I got it from, the movie physics page featured on slashdot a while ago.
I can almost hear my father in the mid to late 1960s saying "But really, what on earth is going to the Moon gonna do for mankind?"
Does that put it in perspective for you?
Not everyone deserves a 320i
Yeah, considering they are on the "job" 24 hrs a day. That would be about $9.25 an hour. Then you have to figure the months of rehab that each of these twits will have to go through to be able to do any normal tasks.
Oh yeah, don't forget taxes.
...And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me." - Martin Niemoeller (1892-1984)
Are you serious? Use a fork for the eating part and a straw for the drinking. Soup can be an issue, and damned if I don't always burning myself whilst trying to eat nachos, but other than that it's not a logistical issue.
Carpe Deez
I've seen it. It's a fine movie for it's time. While we may have the tecnology to simulate gravity in space, why haven't we employed it yet? Shuttle missions don't seem to have the need for it, since their stays in microgravity are generally short. But have any of the space stations currently, or previously in service used some sort of gravity system?
Awk! Pieces of eight. Pieces of eight. Pieces of seven... ERROR: General Protection Fault. [Paroty Error.]
I am almost positive that I could program (and do most of my other jobs) from a lying down position. I wonder if they had any rules regarding what they could and could not do with the computers? Just a thought...
"I can almost hear my father in the mid to late 1960s saying "But really, what on earth is going to the Moon gonna do for mankind?"
Heh, I think an episode of the Simpsons would answer your question:
"The Moon belongs to America..."
"Derp de derp."
This sounds less like prep for weightlessness than preparation for the fluid tanks in the Matrix.
;)
Wait till they start passing out the blue pills... Oh yeah, it's called Viagra
Food?!?
Even worse is, how about trying to have a dump! ewww
what did the moon do for humanity? not much i would imagine since we haven't been there in about 30 years.
The Russians have the largest, most accurate database on such information.. The tests were done with real subjects in real microgravity, not some lame attempt with the slight possibility of simulating something.
Come on, the Mir program is still full of wonderful data.. and couple that with the old data from Skylab and you have a pretty darn good basis for sending up 3 people for a 5 month stay. (with a control group of 3 here on the ground... hell let them lie around for 5 months..)
it amazes me at how stupidity and quackery get's passed off as science and research nowdays..
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
During my junior year at college, I fell from the high-bar at gymnastics practice and split my L1 vertebra in half. As a result, I had to lay flat on my back for a period of about a month. I can attest to the frustration involved in such restriction. In my case, it was only a month, I had plenty of visitors, and I could eventually get up for a few minutes at a time with the help of a metal brace toward the end of the month. Of course I also lived in fear that a sneeze or sudden jerk could leave me paralyzed. I praise God that I healed well and returned to more or less normal. In any case, it was no picnic, and I would never choose to repeat the experience voluntarily.
"Stage 1 of the European Space Agency study involved 14 male volunteers spending 3 months carrying out all activities whilst lying on their backs..."
... while us crazy loons in the US (Russia too, I hear) have the daft idea of conducting weightlessness studies in actual microgravity. Go figure!
I'm waiting for the ESA to announce their intention to put people in space with a really tall ladder ala Eddie Izzard.
There have been so many studies about the effects of over-weightedness. I am glad someone has realized that weightlessness is just as bad.
Should future phases of this experiment require hanging out for a few months in the Space Station, then someone tell these guys to give me a call.
In Capitalist America, bank robs you!
Any study that "must" take all male volunteers because the results will be 'more stable' or something lacks good methodology. I'm sickeningly reminded of early experiments on treatments for breast cancer, overwhelmingly, almost unanimously conducted on men (who rarely get breast cancer, especially comparative to women) -- so that the (lazy) researchers wouldn't have to compensate for menstrual cycles. Throw them a pity party, 'cause they got their streamers up.
Relatedly, I somehow (why, I don't know) expected better than the spate of sexist comments from further up in this discussion. (Note to sexist comment creeps: Mature men with grown-up attitudes towards women tend to get laid more often than twits. This is The Other Half speaking.)
Disgustedly, Interrobang
I'm not a geek, I'm just a clever script.
Sounds like they only conclusion they'll be able to draw is that zero gee causes bed-sores and a stiff neck.
Previous studies on women who spend too much time on their backs have determined that zero gee can cause pregnancy and may lead to hanging out with Italian men named Guido.
Fooz Meister
I spent several weeks lying on my back in a hospital bed and I wound up with a fractured skull, shattered pelvis, liver and stomach lacerations, brain damage and amnesia!
This space available.
To anyone who is/was/used to be a mudder, that means that at the end of the three months, you're hoarding every purple shard, excalibur, Hand of Glory, ball of wisdom, soul slasher, holy grail and every other piece of limited eq in the game, have 10 months of rent, have Calaron, Keogh, Shasta, Coastie and a slew of other wizzies/arches pissed at you and have been accused of scripting approximately 200 times. =)
"you are hereby found guilty as charged of doing all of the above" and on a much lighter note, "so who wants to have another go round?"
*synshyne raises her hand.."ohh ohh me pick me..."
-Alicia
He also says that he's completely honest and trustworthy. Just ask him. He'll tell you.
So he's working in top secret, but just happens to spill his guts to you? Sad.
Did you actually buy into all this, or are you just trolling?
Fooz Meister
Off the top of my head... How about ICs, and Velcro..
Not everyone deserves a 320i
...deserve a reply? sounds like somebody's been watching a bit too mcuh Chain Reaction.
(and the link doesn't even mention propulsion, just storage)
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
1) Where did you mud 2) Did you ever pkill me? ;)
When in doubt, parenthesize. At the very least it will let some poor schmuck bounce on the % key in vi. (Larry Wall)
you were spared by the likes of me...probably cause i didnt mud *blushes* (dont kill me!)..so i wasnt guilty of "all" of the above...but hey with serious gamming time like that I'd have no objection to mudding til my eyes bulged out my skull and dried up......ye shall see me one day soon enough though...just soon as i get somethin better than this POS computer i've been stuck with for way too long...then I shall challenge you!! dont worry bout bein afraid I suck at gamming, but hey who likes a quitter, everyone likes to have someone around once in a while that is an easy target! hahaha
-Alicia
No sunlight, so no UV aging the skin.
No significant spinal compression, so no getting shorter or bent.
Fleshy masses are not pulled downwards enough to strain and stretch the supporting tissue, so no sagging.
I believe that people on the moon would at least look much younger for much longer than people do on the Earth. I'm sure moon gravity is much healthier than free-fall, too. You'd probably still need some sort of drug treatment to keep healthy bones and the right amount of blood, though. I sure wouldn't want to live 20 years on the moon, and then come back to Earth.
Quote:j tml
"The problem is that if the radius of the spin is too slow, you can actually feel it in your middle ear when you turn your head! It's like a miniature version of the Coriolis effect which makes hurricanes on the Earth."
http://www.badastronomy.com/mad/1999/spinstation.
Actually going to space? Well now, I'd do that for free.
I missed being able to go out for a drink, but also yearned for physical contact
Poor dude...