OpenDJ UNIX-based P2P Streamer

hardcorejon writes "I found the Streamer software interesting, particularly because I've also written a remarkably similar piece of software, called OPENdj. Because Streamer requires Windows, I thought my fellow Slashdot readers would be interested in OPENdj, which is an open source Java/Linux-based distributed streamer. Development on OPENdj began over a year ago, with version 1.0.0 appearing this past May. It has some slick features, including automatic archiving, archive search, stream meta-tagging, listener counts and chat rooms. Download it, bang on it, send me patches :)"

Comments

Don't you love that?

[gazbo]

When it's just s FP sitting right there?

SP!

[Anonymous Coward]

Sork Pork!

It works!! And it doesn't crash!!

[Travoltus]

Dear developer:
OpenDJ doesn't crash!
Is this a bug or a feature?
Will you be putting the crash thingee back in so as to make it comparable to its closed source Windows counterpart? :)

Re:It works!! And it doesn't crash!!

[shades66]

Unfortunatly this feature cannot be implemented within the application as the bug was caused by the windows OS. If you wish to re-enable this feature then you will need to change some of the kernel code (just delete a few random lines here and there!) and re-compile. Once you have performed this task you will find that most(if not all) of your linux applications will act just like their windows counter-parts.

Re:It works!! And it doesn't crash!!

[unixfd0]

It's not closed source anymore...
streamer

Re:It works!! And it doesn't crash!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Hello, my name is Shaniqua, I am well over 300 lbs, I enjoy greasy chicken, and I dislike opressive white americans.

Re:It works!! And it doesn't crash!!

[Anonymous Coward]

The windows counterpart streamer is NOT closed sourced. It's GPL'd and opened. Read the damn pages under *each and every* link provided. Cripes.

Not even 12 hours, and already a project has totally false statements made against it.

Oh, your so-called analysis that this has something to do with opened or closed source is bogus. The Java based program has been worked on for over a year. The Win program has been worked on...well, probably less than a month. Gee.

As to whether it crashes or not...I wouldn't know. You seem to *because* you are using Windows. Hypocrite.

Re:It works!! And it doesn't crash!!

[Anonymous Coward]

According to its author's page, the windows streamer is now GPLed.

Play nice now, boys.

-steve
Springfield Fragfest (maybe streaming again soon?)

P2P streaming...

[User 956]

I've gone from being completely indifferent about internet radio to being a huge fan of it in the span of about a year. I have not listened to broadcast music in a couple years now. Just about everything I listened to for a long time came out of my friends and I's CD pools. We'd make compilation albums for each other or just snag songs we particularly enjoyed from albums in each others collections. Broadcast radio has always been shit but recently it has been so bad I simply can't stand to listen to it. I began to go to dozens of concerts from LA to San Diego. Last year I think I tallied 35 concerts in about 9 months. Was I going to see bigass arena shows being hyped by radio stations? Only in a very small handful of cases like the Yahoo Outloud Weezer tour, when I went to the LA and SD shows. Most shows I was going to were indie rock shows and small local shows. Anyhow, I was going to these shows SPECIFICALLY because the bands weren't being played on the radio.

Now it is facing some stiff opposition in the form the RIAA and their demonic minions. I don't want to see internet radio go down because it is the only inexpensive way I've got left to get introduced to some good music. Sharing with my bearded linux hippie friends is nice but there isn't enough variety to really find off the wall shit I end up really digging. P2P radio seems like an obvious solution because of the P2P buzzword culture surging as of late. The model however runs into serious problems. The RIAA doesn't have to go after a single individual or group of individuals to take out P2P radio like they were able to with various sharing programs. All they have to do is make some deals with cable and DSL providers. Lets say there was a popular P2P radio in my town, all it would take is a deal or lawsuit against Charter and he would be toasted. We'd all end up with our bandwidth curtailed more than it already is and P2P radio would end up specifically forbidden in the AUP.

Re:P2P streaming...

[garcia]

for those of you interested in bands that promote the distribution of their live material try FurthurNet

It's very similar to Limewire in look/feel but only allows the trading of music by artists that allow the taping of their shows (and videotaping as well).

There is a Java client for those non-native OS's (Linux, etc).

I use it daily, it seems stable enough on my machine, try it out and see if you like it.

Re:P2P streaming...

[User 956]

for those of you interested in bands that promote the distribution of their live material try FurthurNet It's very similar to Limewire in look/feel but only allows the trading of music by artists that allow the taping of their shows (and videotaping as well).

Thanks for the suggestion. I've mostly gone back to listening to my own CD collection, but for a long time I was listening one of the various SomaFM streams, sitting back, coding, and occasionally writing down the name of a new group or album that I had never heard. I have made dozens of CD purchases based on that list. That source is gone now, and the list (along with CD purchasing for the last few months) is frozen with its departure.

Another funny anecdote: While driving (the only time I ever consider subjecting myself to broadcast radio) recently, I actually heard a song I liked. Missed the name of the artist, but I paid close attention to the lyrics to see if I could pick out keywords. Went home, logged in to the nearest P2P network and had that exact song in less than 30 minutes.

If someone would develop a system with that kind of response time, that would allow me to download what I want by the song, I'd pay for that. The RIAA has had at least half a decade to develop such a system, yet instead they have tried to legislate the technology back into Pandora's Box.

This disgusts me to no end, and I think I'm now fed up enough where this will now become a personal crusade for me. These leeches do the public, and the arts no good. They've refused to evolve, so now it's time for their extinction.

Re:P2P streaming...

[BitHive]

This is an outright repost of this comment, on the other P2P Radio story.

I'm here for your questions and comments

[hardcorejon]

Hello slashdot folk.

I'm really interested in getting as much feedback on OPENdj as I can. Towards that end, if you have any questions, comments, concerns that you'd like to direct towards me, please let me know.

Thanks,

- jonathan.

Re:I'm here for your questions and comments

[Anonymous Coward]

Your dirty open sores POS isn't even worth the bandwidth to download.

Here's hoping that helps!

Yes I agree

[FreshPondPhil]

BURGLARIES JUMP IN 104th PRECINCT
Thieves Prefer Headlights On Nissan Maximas
by Jennifer Stevens

Driven by an upswing in burglaries, general crime rose 14 percent over the past 28 days in the 104th Precinct, Captain Peter Loehle informed at last Wednesday's COP 104 meeting in Maspeth. "Burglaries, which have been our number one nemesis all year, are up 20 percent year to date," said the 104th's commanding officer. "However, in the past two weeks, they've gone down 10 percent and 36 percent respectively." Captain Loehle assured the public that officers had made two very good burglary arrests this month, so this trend may reverse. One consisted of a 51-year-old male Hispanic who was arrested on Linden Place. Officers later learned that this man had a previous record for homicide in the 1979s. The second collar took place on 58th Avenue. Police nabbed a 41-year-old male Hispanic after they were able to obtain a fingerprint of his from a local garbage can.

Two rapes took place in the last 28 days, but both perpetrators were known by their attackers. There have been six robberies in the last month, but the 104th made 15 collars for robbery last week alone, and robberies were down 36 percent that week. Grand larceny auto has risen slightly, as 59 cars have been stolen in the past 28 days. Grand larcenies are up 47 percent over the past 28 days. Captain Loehle reported that a lot of these larcenies consist of thieves stealing valuables out of people's cars. The headlights on 2002 Nissan Maximas are hot items because they cost $800. In fact, five sets of these headlights were stolen in the past month, said Captain Loehle. The commander reported that the precinct was trying to come up with a way to mark the headlights, but no solution has been found yet. Loehle also urged people not to keep valuable items in their cars. There are also some scammers preying on individuals in the area. In one case, two African American women, 40-45 years old, target people on the street, saying that they'd found a pocketbook full of money, and want to share it with the victim. The victims are then asked to put up "good faith money" from their own wallets or bank accounts before the thieves vanish with it. "Beware of offers that sound to good to be true," advised Captain Loehle.

On the enforcement side, 42 summonses have been written in the past month for driving while using a cell phone in the 104th. Fifty-five speeding summonses were issued over the past month, and 113 summonses were given out to people for blocked driveways, which continues to be the number one complaint received by the quality-of-life hotline.

Drag racing has been a major issue over the past few weeks, too. At Paige Place and Grand Avenue in Maspeth, the 104th has made nine felony collars and 37 misdemeanor collars, and has issued more than 500 summonses for illegal activity. Captain Loehle reassured the members of the community that any person caught drag racing would be arrested, and the car would be seized by the police.

Gang info Detective Christopher Jones of the NYPD Gangs Division made a special appearance that evening to give a presentation on the history of gangs and educate the public on how to spot gang members. "Gangs in New York are nothing new," said Detective Jones. "There were gangs in New York City as early as the 1850s." There are approximately one million gang members in the USA, said Jones, and there are more than 35,000 separate gangs. The average age of a gang member is 18, and males dominate these groups.

Gangs are generally out for the continued gain of quick cash and drugs, said Jones, but people join gangs for a multitude of reasons, i.e. peer pressure, attention, fear, curiosity, power and greed. Jones pointed out that there are many different ways to recognize a gang member, which include colors, clothing, accessories, symbols, graffiti, tattoos, grooming, nicknames, terminology, hand signs and rituals.

To combat gangs, Jones said that the best course of action is community outreach programs and after school programs. He also mentioned that DARE (Drug Abuse Resistance Education) and GREAT (Gang Resistance Education and Training) were very good programs which seek to remedy the rising gang problems in this country. For more information, click here [aol.com]



goatse does a body good!

Question

[jon_c]

This is kind of funny as you just spent the last few hours pimping the program all over the 'streamer' story. Anyway, I have a question. How is this program distributed, I think I looked over the docs carefully, it seems like more of an automatic co-op timeshare software.

Thanks,
-Jon

hmm

[mj_sf]

seems like an 'almost' good idea gettin this on the front page of /. wonder if the service'll get un-intentionally slashdotted?

Re:hmm

[hardcorejon]

Yes, I am getting slashdotted. Seems to be performing OK for now, we'll see what happens when 100 people try to listen at once...

- jonathan.

I hate to be the one to point this out, but...

[handsomepete]

I think we already got this "story" in the comments seven stories down.

Yeah yeah, I know I know... troll/flamebait. *sigh* Whatever.

Re:I hate to be the one to point this out, but...

[fliplap]

A lot of people read at 3+ because of crap posts like this one, so they may not have seen that post. We'll note that the comment didn't get modded up at all. Also, after viewing the linked page in the news posting, they may not have read the comments because they saw it was Windows only.I feel this is valid news that is completely acceptable. Just because you already know about something doesn't make it any less news worthy.

Re:I hate to be the one to point this out, but...

[gmhowell]

Maybe it was easier to give him a damned story, and hope he'll shut the hell up. You don't see me pimping my project except once in my journal, and in my url.

Too bad I'm just a PHB, and my programmer bailed on me:(

Better get a lawyer

[Anonymous Coward]

if you want to set this possibly illegal software up on your system. This program may be in violation of the DMCA if it doesn't incorporate copy controls. Another aspect of using software like this is the new fees associated with running a "internet radio station." I'm not trying to be a jerk, I just don't want anyone to end up like the criminals Skylarov, Corley, Felten, etc.

Re:Better get a lawyer

[Anonymous Coward]

Troll.

Re:Better get a lawyer

[hardcorejon]

The DJ Agreement for OPENdj specifically places all responsibility for copyright/licensing/royalties/CARP issues on the DJ. Sucks that it has to be that way, but it's the only way I can afford to operate OPENdj without getting into big trouble.

I may have to pull the archive facility, but there is nothing illegal about the OPENdj technology in and of itself. People could use this to stream their original music, or just do talk radio, neither of which infringes on anyone else's rights.

- jonathan.

Re:Better get a lawyer

[Hank Powers]

if you want to set this possibly illegal software up on your system. This program may be in violation of the DMCA if it doesn't incorporate copy controls.

Well, who really cares? :) I'm living in Europe which doesn't have DMCA... This is a free region, unlike the US.

Re:Better get a lawyer

[sniepre]

And.... another point being.... that people dont realize a lot of music doesnt fall under the RIAA's grasp....

I am a techno DJ.... I spin trance in clubs, and hardhouse for parties and clubs sometimes... and the majority of my music is released either A) underground or B) with the full knowledge of the label that it is being pressed for public use and is generally encouraged to do so.

Go into any record store (vinyl catering to DJs, not CD store..) and you will find bins of LPs with white sleeves and white labels... penned on some track name or genre or play speed (33/45)..

The RIAA has *NO* say about how this music is played as its not under their domain!

So, to make my point, I think its perfectly fair and common to spin tracks in such a manner without even dealing with the beforementioned copyright/licensing/royalties/CARP shit..... Thats basically implied upon purchase of the record.

Re:Better get a lawyer

[gilroy]

Blockquoth the poster:

This program may be in violation of the DMCA if it doesn't incorporate copy controls.

I don't believe that DMCA mandates copy controls. It punishes things that circumvent existing controls but does not require new ones. He might be clear under DMCA.

It's less clear what would happen under CBDTPA (or, as I like to call it, PHHHFT :) ).

Suggestion: Obey the DMCA

[Anonymous Coward]

You need to add copy protection and close the source of your software. Show some respect for the DMCA you criminal.

Re:Suggestion: Obey the DMCA

[Anonymous Coward]

why dont you take a nice walk into a park and play a happy game of hide and go fuck yourself.

dumb flamebait posts,... my god..

fees

[Anonymous Coward]

question: how will you avoid getting killed by the fees on internet radio broadcasting? Don't you have to keep a log of exactly who is listening, what is broadcast, etc etc?

Re:fees

[ksw2]

This will only apply to RIAA music.

Eater

Judo Radio

[gojomo]

This still seems to have a dependence on OpenDJ's reservation/scheduling/archiving server, and I don't see how it uses P2P techniques to multiply the listener base at no cost to the broadcaster.

There's no need to actually invent new P2P-stream-distribution techniques: a better approach would be to merge live, refreshing station playlists with existing P2P file-sharing networks, like Gnutella, ED2K, FastTrack, etc.

You can think of this as as "Judo Radio" because it uses a tiny, smart control channel to throw around a giant amount of content that lives and travels on outside networks.

I wrote more about it here:

Judo Radio: P2P-Leveraged Webcasting

It's not quite the same as typical P2P-webcasting proposals because it leverages open, ownerless content-distribution networks that are already in place, and in fact the "stations" can be agnostic about how the data arrives to audiences. They just say, "get and listen to this next", ad infinitum.

Whether the "stations" need any licenses whatsoever to the tracks they "recommend" seems a debatable point to me: the stations themselves make no copies of copyrighted material at all, instead leaving that completely up to the audience to do on their own.

This approach thus has the same resiliency (or weakness) of the underlying P2P file-sharing networks themselves.

Re:Judo Radio

[hardcorejon]

Wow. That's a really interesting idea.

OPENdj works because the upstream connection from the broadcaster can be virtually anything (like a 56k modem), and the server relays the signal over a high-bandwidth connection to the listeners. In that sense, it's not the P2P that you refer to. But from the viewpoint that "anyone who can listen could also broadcast" (any client is also a potential server), it is P2P.

The difference between OPENdj and a simple relay is that opendj acts as a "controller" to the encoder port, and enforces the channels schedule by only allowing the correct broadcaster to connect and stream. OPENdj also handles the "hand-off" when one broadcaster finishes and other needs to start. Imagine one guy in brazil, the other in london, and the stream transitions is seamless to the listener.

There's a lot more material explaining how this all works (and other nifty features too) on the OPENdj project site.

- jonathan.

Re:Judo Radio

[snookums]

They just say, "get and listen to this next", ad infinitum.

An interesting idea, but I believe it will be let down by the unreliability of P2P networks. Downloading a particular piece of content from current P2P services often requires a long period of trying various sources for an open download slot. In a real-time medium like radio this delay would be unacceptable.

Yeah, well...so what..

[VValdo]

I mean, he never posted offtopic or anything. It's not like some people haven't been posting the same stuff for years now. If the guy wants to promote or raise awareness about an open source project that's relevent to the current discussion, I say why not. Just as long he doesn't go overboard and start spamming or something.

W

Re:Yeah, well...so what..

[handsomepete]

I agree. However, as I was wading through that discussion maybe it just _seemed_ like everytime anyone mentioned some fallacy of p2p he would pop up and say 'That's where OpenDJ comes in!' I'm all for Open Source awareness/promotion and if there's *really* nothing else going on the world I won't even complain about this story anymore(it is Sunday here after all). It was just obnoxious after seeing a constant pimping of his program in another (albeit relevant) thread there being an entire story on it which has no new information a couple hours later.

Point well taken, though.

Re:Yeah, well...so what..

[hardcorejon]

No, you are right, it was a little too "eager" posting on my part. No ill intentions, and I'm sorry for any annoyance.

- jonathan.

ITs java, it sucks

[HanzoSan]

I dont care what program you make, if its java, its going to be crappy.

I dont know why theres this illusion that java is useful, its not really all that portible, you could have the same portibility with C if its writen right.

I dont think theres a single good java peer to peer program, freenet is java and thats why its taking forever to write.

Re:ITs java, it sucks

[josh crawley]

So, are you volunteering to write it in C or C++ ? You're complaining soo much, so put your time where your mouth is Mr. Hanzo.

This is one example of why Open Source programming ideas are bad. When the developer comes out, other's bitch at him without anything to contribute. That's why authors get burnt out.

Re:ITs java, it sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

It's also interesting that you feel you have to post the virtually identical sentiment three times.

Re:ITs java, it sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

How the fuck did this get modded to two? Especially considering it's the third time this troll has posted this comment.

Uhm, that archiving feature...

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't that gonna get you in trouble with the RIAA?? i dont think the /. community wants another open source developer to go to prison so you should remove it now!!

Its JAVA!!!!

[HanzoSan]

I dont like java, Java sucks on all OS's, linux, windows, OSX.

Why would anyone ever choose java?! Most people know C, so for open source development java takes longer, java is weaker than C, slower than C, and its not really all that much more portible than C.

Why not just use C?

The only problem with this app is its java. Freenet is java and its taking forever to write because of it.

Theres not a single good java app for peer to peer, name one.

Re:Its JAVA!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

I dont like java, Java sucks on all OS's, linux, windows, OSX...
Why not just use C?

You're the kind of guy who uses a screwdriver as a chisel too, right?

Re:Its JAVA!!!!

[ToLu the Happy Furby]

Theres not a single good java app for peer to peer, name one.

Err...Limewire??

Re:Its JAVA!!!!

[HanzoSan]

Limewire sucks compared to alot of the other Gnutella clients, its a decent client but nothing about it makes it better.

The best thing I can say about limewire is it works.

Re:Its JAVA!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm guessing you don't know java and don't want to learn.

Re:Its JAVA!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

More likely (as someone else pointed out) he took a Java class and failed.

Re:Its JAVA!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

That's because most JVM implentations aren't very good. The best one I've found so far is jRockit.

Re:Its JAVA!!!!

[fferreres]

Java has always had an important problem: it's ugly and doesn't (visually) interates with anything. Most java app are slow (or maybe the code? i'm am talking about Limewire, Phex, etc.) but i can live with that. But a client is supposed to look nice?

Why didn't SUN though about providing native widgets? For the server side you don't need them, but if they wanted to hit Microsoft in the heart, they should have though of many a java app look as nice as any other app in windows (or linux, say gtk or qt).

I guess they'll never understand the desktop market. If it doesn't look nice, it's perceived as BAD.

I'm not only talking for myself, but for what I hear from people trying java stuff.

Re:Its JAVA!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe he's a C developer and doesn't want his job jeapordized if Java gets popular (umm, too late...).

Re:Its JAVA!!!!

[arkane1234]

Or java is just slow....

but then again, processors are getting faster so soon java will feel like assembler...

Great stuff . . . if your'e a webmaster!

[Anonymous Coward]

OpenDJ seems to require a healthy knowledge of Apache, Tomcat,Icecast, PostgreSQL. To run Streamer, you need to run the streamer software, Winamp,a DSP plugin like either the shoutcast dsp plugin for winamp or Oddcast DSP. Streamer is definitely easier.

Re:Great stuff . . . if your'e a webmaster!

[hardcorejon]

Yes, to operate your own OPENdj station requires some knowledge of server-side stuff.

The intent is to make the life of the would-be broadcaster as easy as possible. There are a lot of non-technical people out there who would love to broadcast and know lots about music but not much about computers.

As a secondary goal, it should be easy to install your own OPENdj station. As you note, currently this is not the case.

Also bear in mind that OPENdj has a lot of features Streamer does not - automatic archiving, configurable rerun scheduler, listener counts, real-time chat with your listeners, etc.

- jonathan.

Port to C immediately

[HanzoSan]

You wont get any development support if you keep using java. Port to C.

Java apps are not easy to install usually for any OS because they require a Virtual Machine, why not just use C and develop cross platform? Please tell me why you picked java?

Thats the only problem i have with your app. I understand java allows easier cross platform development but you could have done the same thing with C, it wouldnt be as quick and easy but you'd have better support and better code in the long run.

Re:Port to C immediately

[Anonymous Coward]

Mod parent up, his point is excellent. Though I personally prefer C++ over C.

Re:Port to C immediately

[josh crawley]

ALso try reading the damn site for development....

__________________________________________

New project: opendj-libopendj
OK, folks, I know that the current client broadcasting software (in Java) really sucks. The user interface is clunky, the installation is a pain, and the massive download size of the Java Runtime Environment is intolerable for DJs who are supposed to only need a 56K modem to broadcast.

Solution: opendj-libopendj and opendj-client-qt
The opendj-libopendj project, already underway, aims to provide a C library API interface to the client-side of the OPENdj Protocol. opendj-libopendj uses the Apache project's APR library to achieve platform independence.

The opendj-client-qt project, which is not yet started, will use opendj-libopendj as a foundation for a platform independent, C++ client based on the Qt Toolkit.

Re:Port to C immediately

[hardcorejon]

Porting to C for the client has already begun.

If someone wants to port the server, by all means, go for it.

And, IMHO, FreeNet is taking so long NOT because it's written in Java, but because their requirements are pretty insane. The protocol itself is fantastically complex. The OPENdj protocols are intentionally lightweight and simple.

See my other post on why I chose to go with Java.

- jonathan.

Re:Port to C immediately

[Anonymous Coward]

Man you are really a one trick pony. How many different ways can you respond with the same bitchy comment. Downloading a JVM and moving to some specified location really is a tough task, NOT!

Re:Port to C immediately

[Anonymous Coward]

YEAH! What a great idea! Port to C because NO ONE ever programs anything in other languages!

Plus we can get the benefit of BUFFER OVERFLOWS and meandering pointers, and memory leaks! What a GREAT fucking idea!

Screw C. Stick with Java.

Re:Port to C immediately

[Turing Machine]

Please tell me why you picked java?

I'm not him, but it might have something to do with Java being type-safe, portable, and immune to the innumerable overrun screws that plague code written in C.

Unchecked buffers are bad, m'kay?

Re:Port to C immediately

[AJWM]

You might try keeping up with what's been happening over the last year or two.

Compile Java with gcc (er, gcj) and (if you want) you get native code, just like with C, but without the buffer overflows.

C is for kernels and (perhaps) heavily used libraries. Anything else should use a higher level language.

Re:Port to C immediately

[HanzoSan]

ok so if java is so easily compiled in gcc why then isnt everyone using GCC? I have yet to see a native java app, show me one.

And a high level language? C is high level. C isnt assembly you know

Re:Port to C immediately

[debrain]

Java apps are not easy to install usually for any OS because they require a Virtual Machine, why not just use C and develop cross platform?

s/Java/Perl/

Is this the only / real problem you have with Java?

I disagree with the "better support and better code"; C is more diagonal than Java, and diagonality leads to obfuscation. (Perl being the most diagonal language I know; I love that feature of Perl, but it is not this that I am disagreeing with ;) ). Java is exceptionally orthogonal, hence there is, more-often than in diagonally inclined languages, a "best way" to do something. Best ways imply easier support and better code. On the other hand, it is oft faster, and more artistic, to implement diagonal code. YMMV.

Cheers

Re:Port to C immediately

[Anonymous Coward]

C isnt assembly you know

Yes, it is. C was originally designed to be a "portable assembler" to ease the pain of porting Unix to multiple architectures. It's great for its specific domain of applicability. Unfortunately, writing user apps, server code, and pretty much anything else except perhaps low-level device and filesystem wanking lies outside that domain.

C++, on the other hand, has no legitimate uses at all, so far as I can see.

Re:Port to C immediately

[AJWM]

I have yet to see a native java app, show me one.

Lazy, ignorant, demanding SOB, aren't you? Okay, take a look at XWT, for one. Also take a look here and here.

Of course, the executable for a native Java app isn't going to look any different to the casual file(1) command than one compiled from C, C++ or even Fortran.

Re:Port to C immediately

[arkane1234]

well, QT is a nice extension of C...
Takes alot of the issues out of it, but yeah.. for cross platform almost literally plug-n-play, java rocks.

Re:Port to C immediately

[arkane1234]

Don't most people have a JRE on their computer already?

Re:Port to C immediately

[Travoltus]

All these coding gods telling you to port your code to C and I don't even see one of them having put out a single danged product worth mentioning.

Smell the irony, Jonathan.

Keep on keeping on. Do it in Java, do it in C, but most of all, DO IT RIGHT!!

Re:Port to C immediately

[shepd]

>C was originally designed to be a "portable assembler" to ease the pain of porting Unix to multiple architectures.

And Java was designed to run on nothing but set-top boxes and was originally called Oak. It's great for embedded systems that can handle the bloat, or for programs that don't require snappy response. Unfortunately, writing anything speedy or quick with it or pretty much anything else except perhaps a calculator or notepad program lies outside that domain.

J++, on the other hand, has no use anywhere at all, so far as I can see.

This doesn't mean either Java or C are bad at anything at all! Its just a load of ranting from people who haven't programmed anything useful in either language!

Isn't slashdot great for that?

Re:Port to C immediately

[Anonymous Coward]

And Java was designed to run on nothing but set-top boxes and was originally called Oak

Completely different issue. Java doesn't have language constructs specifically aimed at set-top boxes. C most definitely DOES have constructs aimed at low-level CPU, device, and memory wanking.

I'm not sure what you mean about embedded systems "being able to handle the bloat". Hint: embedded systems, in general, have a considerably smaller amount of memory and a considerably slower CPU than a desktop machine.

As for the speed issue, that's pure FUD. Java GUIs are pretty crappy (getting better, though), but the actual language itself is plenty fast enough for most purposes. If you actually knew what you were talking about you'd know that almost all modern software (except in narrow realms, such as graphics-intensive games and scientific computing) is I/O bound, not CPU bound. For example, a faster CPU (or a faster language running on that CPU) isn't likely to make your pr0n download any faster, nor can it speed up the user's typing or mouse clicking.

If you were really all that concerned about speed you wouldn't be using a GUI in the first place.

As for "not having written anything useful", I've been making a substantial portion of my living from writing code for nearly 20 years.

Re:Port to C immediately

[shepd]

>I'm not sure what you mean about embedded systems "being able to handle the bloat".

I think you've taken what I meant out of context.

I was trying to say (in fewer words) that java is good for embedded systems that have the ability to be able to run bloated software.

>Hint: embedded systems, in general, have a considerably smaller amount of memory and a considerably slower CPU than a desktop machine.

That's why I said what I said. I see now, though, that I should have made it clearer.

>Java GUIs are pretty crappy (getting better, though), but the actual language itself is plenty fast enough for most purposes.

It sure doesn't beat most languages. It sometimes even lags behind Visual Basic (from what I've seen), which is usually the standard for "slowest code ever". Perhaps its just stupid coders, but the majority of Java code I've seen is this slow. So either Java is slow, or many java programmers are slow (not necessarialy yourself!).

>If you actually knew what you were talking about you'd know that almost all modern software (except in narrow realms, such as graphics-intensive games and scientific computing) is I/O bound, not CPU bound.

I didn't say I knew what I'm talking about (read my post), but while stuff is I/O bound, loading the CPU any more than is necessary is certainly not going to speed things up.

>If you were really all that concerned about speed you wouldn't be using a GUI in the first place.

A GUI isn't going to eat up an appreciable amount of CPU cycles unless your application is constantly redrawing stuff.

My 286 was able to run GeoWorks acceptably well, and my C64 could run GEOS. If a sub 2 Mhz processor can handle a GUI, but today's GUIs and applications require a Ghz processor to run well, it shows that today's GUI applications could use some optimization.

>As for "not having written anything useful", I've been making a substantial portion of my living from writing code for nearly 20 years.

I don't doubt it. Collectively, A/Cs have probably programmed thousands of man hours in any language.

But, without posting with an account, your claims come off us inconsequential. Sorry.

Re:Port to C immediately

[Anonymous Coward]

But, without posting with an account, your claims come off us inconsequential. Sorry.

And I guess "shepd" is what it says on your birth certificate?

[snicker]

Re:Port to C immediately

[shepd]

>And I guess "shepd" is what it says on your birth certificate

Well, the letters exist on it, not in that pattern, of course.

Not to mention, my history goes back well over 1000 posts.

Yours goes back 0.

That's why people use user accounts, and why A/Cs are always accused of lying.

You can feel free to browse my old posts and see that I often do know what I'm talking about, and see that I often get +5.

You, however, only have a history of getting 0 for all posts, which is to say, only the one I'm replying to, because you could be anyone.

Also, you'll note I use the account shepd on various systems. Give the 'net a search and perhaps you'll find me. Or perhaps not.

See the difference?

[snicker, snicker]

Re:Port to C immediately

[Anonymous Coward]

Not to mention, my history goes back well over 1000 posts.

Whoa! Almost as many as Open Source Man.

Sorry, if you want credibility with me you'll have to post a message on the current topic that indicates you don't have your head several feet up your ass.

So far, you haven't.

Sorry about that.

Re:Port to C immediately

[shepd]

>Sorry, if you want credibility with me you'll have to post a message on the current topic that indicates you don't have your head several feet up your ass.

Pretty Bass-Ackwards way of thinking, isn't that?

Normally people looking for proof look to the past, which is impossible to fake perfectly. You, however, would prefer to take the risk of me contacting profesisonals and getting an A+ answer rather than be assured of the truth. How unusual.

As I said, its all right there. Browse it and take a look for yourself.

I just won't play your silly little game.

Oh, and I beat opensourceman at not only posts, but quality too.

As a final say, why don't you come back when you have something rational and intelligent to say?

Here's your explanation

[hardcorejon]

Why Java?

Because server side networking code is REALLY easy in Java. Writing multithreaded code is REALLY easy in Java.

That said, OPENdj is really built on top of open wire-level protocols. The current client and server are in Java. I'm working on a C client right now. If someone wants to reimplement the server in C, go for it!

- jonathan.

Re:Here's your explanation

[Anonymous Coward]

Why NOT Java?

Cause it's terribly slow!

Re:Here's your explanation

[Anonymous Coward]

Get a real computer. That 233 MHz eMachine your mom got for signing up for AOL just won't do the job anymore.

Re:Here's your explanation

[Phil John]

Why not use the new non-blocking i/o api's in merlin (java 2 v 1.4) ? I've written quite a few server apps in Java and before they always took a bad performance hit becuase of the number of threads required (one for each connection)...the new i/o classes? 3 threads...and a whole lot more bang for your hardware buck...only problem is the documentation is really pants (come on sun, what are you up to?) I had to rely on a third party tutorial. It's a little tricky at first but you soon get used to it and it's how networking code "should" be done.

The Linux Gay Conspiracy

[pwpbot]

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/journalistic / /agendaSick / /disgusting / /antichristian / /perverts / /the / /lot / /of / /themIn / /addition / /many / /of / /the / /Linux / /distributions / /a / /distribution / /is / /the / /most / /common / /way / /to / /spread / /the / /faggots / /wares / /are / /run / /by / /faggot / /groups / /The / /Slackware / /distro / /is / /named / /after / /the / /Slackwear / /fags / /wear / /to / /allow / /easy / /access / /to / /the / /anus / /for / /sexual / /purposes / /Furthermore / /Slackware / /is / /a / /close / /anagram / /of / /claw / /arse / /a / /reference / /to / /the / /homosexual / /practise / /of / /anal / /fisting / /The / /Mandrake / /product / /is / /run / /by / /a / /group / /of / /French / /faggot / /satanists / /and / /is / /named / /after / /the / /faggot / /nickname / /for / /the / /vibrator / /It / /was / /also / /chosen / /because / /it / /is / /an / /anagram / /for / /dark / /amen / /and / /ram / /naked / /which / /is / /what / /they / /doAnother / /distro / 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/the / /male / /phallus / /then / /leaving / /it / /in / /the / /freezer / /overnight / /until / /it / /becomes / /solid / /The / /practitioner / /then / /proceeds / /to / /push / /the / /frozen / /potato / /up / /his / /own / /rectum / /squeezing / /it / /in / /and / /out / /until / /his / /tight / /young / /balls / /erupt / /in / /a / /screaming / /orgasmAnd / /Red / /Hat / /is / /secret / /homo / /slang / /for / /the / /tip / /of / /a / /penis / /that / /is / /soaked / /in / /blood / /from / /a / /freshly / /violated / /underage / /ringpieceThe / /fags / /have / /even / /invented / /special / /tools / /to / /aid / /their / /faggotry / /For / /example / /the / /supermount / /tool / /was / /devised / /to / /allow / /deeper / /penetration / /which / /is / /good / /for / /fags / /because / /it / /gives / /more / /pressure / /on / /the / /prostate / /gland / /Automount / /is / /used / /on / /the / /other / /hand / /because / /Linux / /users / /are / /all / /fat / /and / /gay / /and / 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/to / /result / /to / /writing / /something / /as / /stupid / /as / /this / /And / /actually / /take / /the / /time / /to / /do / /it / /too / /Although / /I / /think / /it / /was / /satire / /blah / /its / /early / /Anonymous / /Coward / /SlashdotWell / /the / /only / /reason / /I / /know / /all / /about / /this / /is / /because / /I / /had / /the / /misfortune / /to / /read / /the / /Linux / /Sauce / /code / /once / /Although / /publicised / /as / /the / /computer / /code / /needed / /to / /get / /Linux / /up / /and / /running / /on / /a / /computer / /and / /havent / /you / /always / /been / /worried / /about / /the / /phrase / /Monolithic / /Kernel / /this / /foul / /document / /is / /actually / /a / /detailed / /and / /graphic / /description / /of / /every / /conceivable / /degrading / /perversion / /known / /to / /the / /human / /race / /as / /well / /as / /a / /few / /of / /the / /major / /animal / /species / /It / /has / /shocked / /and / /disturbed / /me / /to / /the / /point / /of / /needing / /to / /shock / /and / /disturb / /the / /common / /man / /to / /warn / /them / /of / /the / /impending / /homocalypse / /which / /threatens / /to / /engulf / /our / /planet / /You / /must / /work / /for / /the / /government / /Trying / /to / /post / /the / /most / /obscene / /stuff / /in / /hopes / /that / /slashdot / /wont / /be / /able / /to / /continue / /or / /something / /due / /to / /legal / /woes / /If / /i / /ever / /see / /your / /ugly / /face / /im / /going / /to / /stick / /my / /fireplace / /poker / /up / /your / /ass / /after / /its / /nice / /and / /hot / /to / /weld / /shut / /that / /nasty / /gaping / /hole / /of / /yours / /Anonymous / /Coward / /SlashdotDoesnt / /it / /give / /you / /a / /hardon / /to / /imagine / /your / /thick / /strong / /poker / /ramming / /its / /way / /up / /my / /most / /sacred / /of / /sphincters / /Youre / /beyond / /help / /my / /friend / /as / /the / /only / /thing / /you / /can / /imagine / /is / /the / /foul / /penetrative / /violation / /of / /another / /man / /Are / /you / /sure / /youre / /not / /Eric / /Raymond / /The / /government / /being / /populated / /by / /limpwristed / /liberals / /could / /never / /stem / /the / /sickening / /tide / /of / /homosexual / /child / /molesting / /Linux / /advocacy / /Hell / /theyve / /given / /NAMBLA / /free / /reign / /for / /years / /you / /really / /should / /post / /this / /logged / /in / /i / /wish / /i / /could / /remember / /jebuss / /password / /cuz / /id / /give / /it / /to / /you / /mighty / /jebus / /SlashdotThank / /you / /for / /your / /kind / /words / /of / /support / /However / /this / /document / /shall / /only / /ever / /be / /posted / /anonymously / /This / /is / /because / /the / /Open / /Sauce / /movement / /is / /a / /sham / /proposing / /homoerotic / /cults / /of / /hero / /worshipping / /in / /the / /name / /of / /freedom / /I / /speak / /for / /the / /common / /man / /For / /any / /man / /who / /prefers / /the / /warm / /enveloping / /velvet / /folds / /of / /a / /womans / /vagina / /to / /the / /tight / /puckered / /ringpiece / /of / /a / /child / /These / /men / /being / /common / /decent / /folk / /dont / /have / /a / /say / /in / /the / /political / /hypocrisy / /that / /is / /Slashdot / /culture / /I / /am / /the / /unknown / /liberator / /ROLF / /LAMO / /i / /hate / /linux / /FAGGOTS / /Anonymous / /Coward / /SlashdotWe / /shouldnt / /hate / /them / /we / /should / /pity / /them / /for / /the / /misguided / /fools / /they / /are / /Fanatical / /Linux / /zealouts / /need / /to / /be / /herded / /into / /camps / /for / /reeducation / /and / /subsequent / /rehabilitation / /into / /normal / /heterosexual / /society / /This / /reeducation / /shall / /be / /achieved / /by / /forcing / /them / /to / /watch / /repeats / /of / /Baywatch / /until / /the / /very / /mention / /of / /Pamela / /Anderson / /causes / /them / /to / /fill / /their / /pants / /with / /healthy / /heterosexual / /jism / /Actually / /thats / /not / /at / /all / /how / /scrotal / /inflation / /works / /I / /understand / /it / /involves / /injecting / /sterile / /saline / /solution / /into / /the / /scrotum / /Ive / /never / /tried / /this / /but / /you / /can / /read / /how / /to / /do / /it / /safely / /in / /case / /youre / /interested / /Before / /you / /moderate / /this / /down / /ask / /yourself / /honestly / /who / /are / /the / /real / /crazies / /people / /who / /do / /scrotal / /inflation / /or / /people / /who / /pay / /1000 / /for / /a / /game / /console / /doubleh / /SlashdotWell / /it / /just / /goes / /to / /show / /that / /even / /the / /holy / /Linux / /sauce / /code / /is / /riddled / /with / /bugs / /that / /need / /fixing / /The / /irony / /of / /Jon / /Katz / /not / /even / /being / /able / /to / /inflate / /his / /scrotum / /correctly / /has / /not / /been / /lost / /on / /me / /The / /Linux / /pervert / /elite / /already / /acknowledge / /this / /with / /their / /queer / /slogan / /Given / /enough / /arms / /all / /rectums / /are / /shallow / /And / /anyway / /the / /PS2 / /sucks / /major / /cock / /and / /isnt / /worth / /the / /money / /Intellivision / /forever / /dude / /did / /u / /used / /to / /post / /on / /msnbcs / /nt / /bulletin / /board / /now / /that / /u / /are / /doing / /antigay / /posts / /u / /also / /need / /to / /start / /in / /with / /antiblack / /stuff / /too / /c / /u / /in / /church / /Anonymous / /Coward / /SlashdotFor / /one / /thing / /whilst / /Linux / /is / /a / /cavalcade / /of / /queer / /propaganda / /masquerading / /as / /the / /future / /of / /computing / /NT / /is / /used / /by / /people / /who / /think / /nothing / /better / /of / /encasing / /their / /genitals / /in / /quick / /setting / /plaster / /then / /going / /to / /see / /a / /really / /dirty / /porno / /film / /enjoying / /the / /restriction / /enforced / /onto / /them / /Remember / /a / /wasted / /arousal / /is / /a / /sin / /in / /the / /eyes / /of / /the / /Catholic / /church / /Clearly / /the / /only / /godfearing / /Christian / /operating / /system / /in / /existence / /is / /CPM / /The / /Christian / /Program / /Monitor / /All / /computer / /users / /should / /immediately / /ask / /their / /local / /pastor / /to / /install / /this / /fine / /OS / /onto / /their / /systems / /It / /is / /the / /only / /route / /to / /salvationSecondly / /this / /message / /is / /for / /every / /man / /Computers / /know / /no / /colour / /Not / /only / /that / /but / /one / /of / /the / /finest / /websites / /in / /the / /world / /is / /maintained / /by / /a / /Black / /Man / /Now / /fuck / /off / /you / /racist / /donkey / /felcher / /And / /dont / /forget / /that / /slashdot / /was / /written / /in / /Perl / /which / /is / /just / /too / /close / /to / /Pearl / /Necklace / /for / /comfort / /oh / /wait / /thats / /something / /all / /you / /heterosexuals / /do / /I / /cant / /help / /but / /wonder / /how / /much / /faster / /the / /trolls / /could / /do / /FirstPosts / /on / /this / /site / /if / /it / /were / /redone / /in / /PHP / /I / /could / /handtype / /dynamic / /HTML / /pages / /faster / /than / /Perl / /can / /do / /them / /phee / /SlashdotAlthough / /there / /is / /nothing / /unholy / /about / /the / /fine / /heterosexual / /act / /of / /ejaculating / /between / /a / /womans / /breasts / /squirting / /ones / /load / /up / /towards / /her / /neck / /and / /chin / /area / /it / /should / /be / /noted / /that / /Perl / /standing / /for / /Pansies / /Entering / /Rectums / /Locally / /is / /also / /close / /to / /Pearl / /Monocle / /Pearl / /Nosering / /and / /the / /ubiquitous / /Pearl / /EnemaOne / /scary / /thing / /about / /Perl / /is / /that / /it / /contains / /hidden / /homosexual / /messages / /Take / /the / /following / /code / /LWPSimple / /It / /looks / /innocuous / /enough / /doesnt / /it / /But / /look / /at / /the / /line / /closely / /There / /are / /two / /colons / /next / /to / /each / /other / /As / /Larry / /Balls / /to / /the / /Wall / /would / /openly / /admit / /in / /the / /Perl / /Documentation / /Perl / /was / /designed / /from / /the / /ground / /up / /to / /indoctrinate / /its / /programmers / /into / /performing / /unnatural / /sexual / /acts / /having / /two / /colons / /so / /closely / /together / /is / /clearly / /a / /reference / /to / /the / /perverse / /sickening / /act / /of / /colon / /kissing / /whereby / /two / /homosexual / /queers / /spread / /their / /buttocks / /wide / /pressing / /their / /filthy / /torn / /sphincters / /together / /They / /then / /share / /small / /round / /objects / /like / /marbles / /or / /golfballs / /by / /passing / /them / /from / /one / /rectum / /to / /another / /using / /muscle / /contraction / /alone / /This / /is / /also / /referred / /to / /in / /programming / /circles / /as / /Parameter / /PassingAnd / /PHP / /stands / /for / /Perverted / /Homosexual / /Penetration / /Didnt / /you / /know / /Thank / /you / /for / /your / /valuable / /input / /on / /this / /I / /am / /sure / /you / /will / /be / /never / /forgotten / /BTW / /Did / /I / /mention / /that / /this / /could / /be / /useful / /in / /terraforming / /Mars / /Mars / /rulaa / /Eimernase / /SlashdotWell / /I / /dont / /know / /about / /terraforming / /Mars / /but / /I / /do / /know / /that / /homosexual / /Linux / /Advocates / /have / /been / /probing / /Uranus / /for / /years / /Thats / /inspiring / /Keep / /up / /the / /good / /work / /AC / /May / /Go

Re:The Linux Gay Conspiracy

[Anonymous Coward]

FUCK.

Now page widening fucks mozilla :(

Re:The Linux Gay Conspiracy

[Anonymous Coward]

My ass hurts... but I like it.

Widden me with your big ripe cock.

nye

[Anonymous Coward]

to bad unix sucks

Oh, now I get it

[Emil Brink]

So, if you've written a piece of software, all you have to do to get an article about it on Slashdot is wait until an article about a similar program is published. Then, you bomb the thread with links to your project, wait a while, submit a story about your project, and Bob's your uncle. Easy. *Crawls back under a rock, waiting for the next article even remotely touching file managers*. ;^)

Re:Oh, now I get it

[Anonymous Coward]

I was already getting sick of hearing about this openDJ software (via spaming) in the last article. Now the slashdot admins REWARD him by giving him his own article.

Neat app, but:

[Anonymous Coward]

I still don't understand how you sidestep the CARP concerns. Doesn't everybody involved as a relay suddenly become a broadcaster under the rules as they are laid out? (Yes, I realize this isn't logical, but when has that gotten in the way of legislating digital technologies...)

Disregarding all that, I think this is a pretty cool concept. Splitting the bandwidth costs this way would make operating an amateur station much easier. I can't get through to the site right now, but does anybody know the maximum bitrate you can run over a 56k link and maintain a reasonably reliable stream?

I'm gonna have to give this a try when the traffic dies down...

Re:Neat app, but:

[SirRichardPumpaloaf]

Congratulations on your development of a page-widener that works in Mozilla. It's not even obvious that you're the one doing it. Adding it to a reasonably on-topic post was a nice touch.

Re:Neat app, but:

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, you're widening Mozilla! I didn't think this was possible. Since I see spaces in your junk, I guess it's Mozilla's fault. Time to search the source code for the braindead expression that tests if a character is a breaking space, replace it with (c == ' ' || c == '\t'), and give birth control pills to whoever wrote the original test.

Now, I'm not the developer, but I'll bite

[Hektor_Troy]

You wont get any development support if you keep using java. Port to C.

That's kinda funny; I keep telling people that I'd love to help them out with their projects, if they'd port to Java.

Java apps are not easy to install usually for any OS because they require a Virtual Machine, why not just use C and develop cross platform? Please tell me why you picked java?

I develop java, because that is the language I know; I don't post in chineese because I don't speak chineese. Sure - you can develop cross platform, and I'm sure it's easy as pie, which is probably why everyone who develops in C develops cross platform.

The problem in your proposal is, that you need to support a huge number of platforms - with java you only need one; granted, the platform needs to support Java, but that's not my problem. Also I doubt you can reuse much code between Sparc+Solaris and x86+Linux.

I understand java allows easier cross platform development but you could have done the same thing with C, it wouldnt be as quick and easy but you'd have better support and better code in the long run.

Why would it have better support? And why on earth would it result in better code? I am yet to see any buffer overflows in Java, and they are probably the most common bug in software; even good developers fall for those.

Now - why don't you port it to C, and all the platforms that support java? Even if OpenDJ is not open source, I'm quite sure the author would allow you to do so. Or are you only in this for the right to bicker?

Re:Now, I'm not the developer, but I'll bite

[Anonymous Coward]

If you cant code in C, then you are probably worthless to any non trivial project anyhow. Java has basically killed any hopes for freenet. Any real p2p software needs to be written in C. If it excludes the likes of you then that actually helps.

Re:Now, I'm not the developer, but I'll bite

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice try posting at AC (hint: your stereotypical spelling errors gave you away)

Get back to us when you actually write a P2P program yourself.

Lauging...

[hardcorejon]

Yeah, "pimping" would be one word for it. Too much coffee, no sleep, and getting a little too excited is what happened. I'm sorry if it came across as spam-ish, that's the last impression I want to give.

But anyway, you're right, I thnk of OPENdj as not really P2P but more like "public access" Internet radio. A soapbox that anyone can stand on and shout!

- jonathan.

Java Good! C Bad!

[OmniVector]

It's not the stone age anymore, and we don't need to squeeze every single bit of resources out of modern systems to get them to perform well. Java has gotten to the point that it's fast enough to do just about anything but 3d games or hardcore graphics. If your program does not need to do either of those two, then java will save you development time, and porting time. Java does have it's pitfalls in that you can't take advantage of certain built in features of an OS designed to make it more UI friendly (like the windows system tray) or many other examples.

If it comes down to that: sit down, whip out the C code, and use the java native interface to integrate the OS specific C code into the java program.

As the program developer said, it has the added benefit of a great backing of network and threading capabilities, not to mention swing (the most exenstive and easily manipulated UI API I've seen). C is ugly, non OOP, and lacks modern productivity features like a well designed and documented library as easy to use as javas.

Flame me all you want, but C is for console junkies or Doom III.

Quick question

[Hektor_Troy]

Does "HanzoSan" mean "I burnt my tungue on a cup of java once, and now I'm pissed off at Java" in some obscure language?

I haven't reached the bottom of the 26 comments so far, and you have posted your hatred of java three times so far ...

Did you flunk your java course or something?

reposted story....sorta

[Squeezer]

more from a comment by the same author :)

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=35116&cid=37 94 975

Make it easy to install

[HanzoSan]

Offer a download button which downloads all the file in one tar or zip, have some instructions on how to install it on your website.

Java Bad! C Good!

[Sir Homer]

Try running jEdit on a 533MHZ PII System :)
Lets just say 20 sec to load a notepad clone is sad, and it has to redraw all widgets when you multitask. (which can take another 10-20sec)
Picked up Crimoson Editor, written in C++, has many more features, and runs like a charm.

Perhaps if someone came out with a Java Compiler that turns Java code to machine code I'd like it better.

Until then, you have fun with your Java proggies, I stick with my C/C++ programs.

Re:Java Bad! C Good!

[Jester998]

"Perhaps if someone came out with a Java Compiler that turns Java code to machine code I'd like it better. "

Hmm... I seem to recall that gcc had experimental support to do just this... not sure of the current state of it, though.

Re:Java Bad! C Good!

[Anonymous Coward]

you're looking for a JIT compiler?

Re:Java Bad! C Good!

[feed_me_cereal]

gcj, as someone else mentioned, is from the GNU project. It can even compile byte-code to machine code. Also, some JVM's are faster than others. A JVM with a just-in-time compiler (JIT) runs much faster. btw, I have an athlon 750 and when I run jedit, I don't notice any slowdowns.

Re:Java Bad! C Good!

[OmniVector]

Perhaps if your computer was a 1700 athlon like mine, it wouldn't have any problems with java. like i said, in MODERN systems. No offense but 533mhz is about 1-2 years old.

Re:Java Bad! C Good!

[Anonymous Coward]

Try running jEdit on a 533MHZ PII System :)

Try running X on a 386SX-16 system (I did, back in the day, and it was damned painful. Still kicked the crap out of Windows 3.1, though).

Time marches on, dude. You can get an 850 MHz Duron for $299 at walmart.com.

Re:Java Bad! C Good!

[MortisUmbra]

Oh my God!!!! 1-2 years old!!!! Redefine the term modern to mean cutting edge, because unlike some of us the vast majority of users system are not 1700 Athlons, you would be SHOCKED to know what the real average computing speed is.... Makes 533 look fast.... *sigh* Just gotta keep in mind not to run any software written by you or anyone else with a philosophy that just because the PC is faster that shouldn't mean that our software should be faster too.... No offense but for a friggin notepad clone it should load up in 1-2 seconds on a 300Mhz system, it edits TEXT, no graphics, no real fancy features, just text....

Re:Java Bad! C Good!

[Anonymous Coward]

>You can get an 850 MHz Duron for $299 at walmart.com.

That massive 15% speed increase will buy him about 3 seconds, but will take him 30 minutes to purchase.

Hardly seems worth it when you put it like that, does it?

Re:Java Bad! C Good!

[Sir Homer]

1-2years old is not old, as another poster said it's likely higher MHz then the average. In the end of the day the excessive slowdown and unresponsiveness of java doesn't justify it's portability or ease of use for anything but applets.
You also have two possible ways to have security holes in a Java application, one in the application itself and one in the VM that runs it.
Using C++ you can also use toolkits like Qt and wxWindows it is possible to make portable applications that can run on multiple operating systems without changing a single line of code, and these toolkits are getting better.
I am not saying that java can't get there, once Java can be compiled directly into machine code easily, then Java will likely be more accepted. When that happens Java will be a portable, easy to use, and FAST language.

Re:Java Bad! C Good!

[Phil John]

Perhaps if someone came out with a Java Compiler that turns Java code to machine code I'd like it better.

GCJ, TowerJ, VisualAge for Java, BulletTrain, Jove, Visual Café etc., need I go on?

Of course the upside of using java is garbage collection...no more annoying memory leaks, improved productivity, lower cost to market etc. etc. etc.

Re:Java Bad! C Good!

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you really believe that an 850 MHz Duron is only 15% faster than a 533 MHz Pentium II? Allow me to repeat that: Pentium II.

Hint: the clock speed is not the only factor here.

Re:Java Bad! C Good!

[Anonymous Coward]

once Java can be compiled directly into machine code easily, then Java will likely be more accepted.

/me looks at calendar. Yep, it's still 2002 over here. What other things are different on your timeline?

All the people who are using jsp code would be quite amused to learn that Java isn't useful for anything but applets. Ditto the people who have been compiling Java directly to machine code for, oh, 4 or 5 years.

As for the security hole issue, of course it's possible to have security holes in Java. What IS much likely is having bonehead problems like buffer overflows. Look at the last, oh, say, 200 exploits that have come out. How many of them are due to buffer overflows?

Re:Java Bad! C Good!

[Sir Homer]

Java also lacks a persistant interface. The widgets most VMs use to do not look at home in any Operating System. Java is not accepted for anything but Java applets. In fact most people who know what Java is do not know you can even make stand-alone applications with it nor have they seen any stand alone applications written in Java. JSP far behind PHP/Perl and ASP in terms of acceptance as well. No I don't think Java is the wave of the future. The saying "if you must do something, do it well" still stands. I dislike, the whole revolution by companies like Sun, Apple and Microsoft to sacrafice reliability, functionality, and performance for easy of use or simplicity. It is not my vision for computing.

YOU CAN'T EVEN SPELL!

[Anonymous Coward]

portible??? u say java is bad?! your friggin' spelling is as complex as a 3 year old's mind! it's portAble not portIble.

Troll... i salute you. now you PREPARE TO DIE!

Love that feeling...

[Anonymous Coward]

Cried into that beer yet, gazbo? :p

-NiD

CARP and bandwidth issues

[hardcorejon]

I do sidestep the CARP issue by requiring the DJ to take care of all that. If the DJ wants to broadcast original material, or do a talk show, then there are no copyright restrictions on that. If they want to broadcast copyrighted material, it's their responsibility to pay any associated fees.

The broadcasting software that DJs use tells them how many listeners they have, so if they need to use that to calculate what they owe, the can use it.

On the bandwidth side, a 24 or 32Kbps upstream signal is about all a 56k modem can do. I've tested it with PacBell dialup anyway, and it works OK.

Which brings me to another thought: I hope the RIAA realizes that these low-quality streams are not really worth prosecuting. They are listenable, but certainly won't infringe on album sales - the difference in quality is just too huge. Now if I were streaming at 128k, then you might have a different story.

- jonathan.

Re:CARP and bandwidth issues

[dheeraj]

I do sidestep the CARP issue by requiring the DJ to take care of all that. If the DJ wants to broadcast original material, or do a talk show, then there are no copyright restrictions on that. If they want to broadcast copyrighted material, it's their responsibility to pay any associated fees.

Jon, I love your idea, even to the point that I started to sign up for a shift, with grand dreams of resurrecting my old radio show from my college days. Then I read your DJ agreement and got to the CARP part.

This effectively kills most broadcasts. Your average music enthusiast at home, who decides they love their eclectic, offbeat mix of music so much that they want to do a radio show on the Internet, doesn't have the money to pay "protection money" to the RIAA thugs. I know this isn't your problem, but it's a major problem that keeps this project from being terribly feasible.

Fact is, a lot of the most esoteric, indie-label stuff falls as much under the RIAA's grasp as the latest Titney Queers bullshit. Until and unless they resolve this crap (read: throw out this extortion idiocy), about the only people who can afford to broadcast on the Web are going to be the Clear Channels of the world. And we know what that sounds like . . .

I had my signup form all filled up, and was about to hit "submit" before I was reminded of this.

Note to the RIAA: Great job. You've defeated yet another person who actually gives a damn about music. Unlike you crooks, evidently.

no, not java... you suck

[Anonymous Coward]

limewire, you moron. If you don't have any idea what you're talking about, don't talk. I started writing in java a long time ago when I found it took me a fraction of the time to debug my code than it did in C++. I don't give a shit how fast emulated code is when I'm not writing a graphics engine and I run an athlon, it dosn't make any difference at all. And you can't have the same portability with c... compiled java is 100% portible. Compiled c is 100% not portable (without emulation, but then where's the advantage?). end of argument. Go home, troll

oh, good

[Anonymous Coward]

i think you meant to post this on http://freshmeat

next up from our on-the-ball slashdot team :
the latest ID3 Tag Editor! - today's equivalent
of "hello world"

you people are so lame it makes me hemorrhage.

you actually widened my page (using mozilla)

[Anonymous Coward]

w000w you actually did it, asshole! (i am using mozilla 1.0 and it widens the page)

Now please, stop it.

Re:you actually widened my page (using mozilla)

[Anonymous Coward]

Well shit I'm gonna have to browse at 1 again because of these dingles.

Re:you actually widened my page (using mozilla)

[Anonymous Coward]

Doesn't affect Opera. Muahahaha!

Re:you actually widened my page (using mozilla)

[Anonymous Coward]

N ot widened at all on IE for the Mac, heh

Recycler's Delight

[Anonymous Coward]

A few years ago, while browsing around the library downtown, I had to take a piss. As I entered the john a big beautiful all-american football hero type, about twenty-five, came out of one of the booths. I stood at the urinal looking at him out of the corner of my eye as he washed his hands. He didn't once look at me. He was "straight" and married -- and in any case I was sure I wouldn't have a chance with him.

As soon as he left I darted into the booth he'd vacated, hoping there might be a lingering smell of shit and even a seat still warm from his sturdy young ass. I found not only the smell but the shit itself. He'd forgotten to flush. And what a treasure he had left behind. Three or four beautiful specimens floated in the bowl. It apparently had been a fairly dry, constipated shit, for all were fat, stiff, and ruggedly textured.

The real prize was a great feast of turd -- a nine inch gastrointestinal triumph as thick as a man's wrist.

I knelt before the bowl, inhaling the rich brown fragrance and wondered if I should obey the impulse building up inside me. I'd always been a heavy rimmer and had lapped up more than one little clump of shit, but that had been just an inevitable part of eating ass and not an end in itself. Of course I'd had jerk-off fantasies of devouring great loads of it (what rimmer hasn't), but I had never done it. Now, here I was, confronted with the most beautiful five-pound turd I'd ever feasted my eyes on, a sausage fit to star in any fantasy and one I knew to have been hatched from the asshole of the world's handsomest young stud.

Why not? I plucked it from the bowl, holding it with both hands to keep it from breaking. I lifted it to my nose. It smelled like rich, ripe limburger (horrid, but thrilling), yet had the consistency of cheddar. What is cheese anyway but milk turning to shit without the benefit of a digestive tract?

I gave it a lick and found that it tasted better then it smelled. I've found since then that shit nearly almost does.

I hesitated no longer. I shoved the fucking thing as far into my mouth as I could get it and sucked on it like a big brown cock, beating my meat like a madman. I wanted to completely engulf it and bit off a large chunk, flooding my mouth with the intense, bittersweet flavor. To my delight I found that while the water in the bowl had chilled the outside of the turd, it was still warm inside. As I chewed I discovered that it was filled with hard little bits of something I soon identified as peanuts. He hadn't chewed them carefully and they'd passed through his body virtually unchanged. I ate it greedily, sending lump after peanutty lump sliding scratchily down my throat. My only regret was the donor of this feast wasn't there to wash it down with his piss.

I soon reached a terrific climax. I caught my cum in the cupped palm of my hand and drank it down. Believe me, there is no more delightful combination of flavors than the hot sweetness of cum with the rich bitterness of shit.

Afterwards I was sorry that I hadn't made it last longer. But then I realized that I still had a lot of fun in store for me. There was still a clutch of virile turds left in the bowl. I tenderly fished them out, rolled them into my hankerchief, and stashed them in my briefcase. In the week to come I found all kinds of ways to eat the shit without bolting it right down. Once eaten it's gone forever unless you want to filch it third hand out of your own asshole. Not an unreasonable recourse in moments of desperation or simple boredom.

I stored the turds in the refrigerator when I was not using them but within a week they were all gone. The last one I held in my mouth without chewing, letting it slowly dissolve. I had liquid shit trickling down my throat for nearly four hours. I must have had six orgasms in the process.

I often think of that lovely young guy dropping solid gold out of his sweet, pink asshole every day, never knowing what joy it could, and at least once did, bring to a grateful shiteater.

Re:Recycler's Delight

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck that's sick.

Eat shit and die.

Re:Recycler's Delight

[Anonymous Coward]

Eat shit and die.

I think he'd like the first part, though perhaps not the second.

Yet another reason never to shit in a public restroom....

Isn't Downloading ALSO Streaming?

[izx]

Say you download an MP3 from a P2P network. Isn't that streaming too? Or is streaming defined only as content delivered at its real-time rate and/or content that the user cannot directly control (i.e., requests are allowed, but not directly manipulating the stream-er to deliver a specific song)

One wonders whether non-realtime "streaming" (read: downloading) can also be made illegal by RIAA/CARP

Re:Isn't Downloading ALSO Streaming?

[jfunk]

Say you download an MP3 from a P2P network. Isn't that streaming too?

Only if you're listening to it while you're downloading it.

Or is streaming defined only as content delivered at its real-time rate

You'd need some major QoS across the entire Internet for that to work. All good streamers cache (buffer) data.

One wonders whether non-realtime "streaming" (read: downloading) can also be made illegal by RIAA/CARP

Whether you allow people to download it or stream it, you're still distributing it. Wireless radio stations pay fees, IP radio stations will soon pay fees. Of course, the point of all this software, in my (idealistic) mind, is for non-RIAA-controlled content, but there will be lots of people playing top40 crap anyway.

Many content providers really like streaming because, in many cases, users can't easily save their content and redistribute it. Note the lack of a 'save' button in RealPlayer.

Re:Isn't Downloading ALSO Streaming?

[MrNemesis]

"Note the lack of a 'save' button in RealPlayer."

Being a very recent Linux convert (still busy in the process of migrating), I have been told that a great many of open source streamers DO incorporate a save function to save the audio stream.

Isn't there a possibility that features like this will be made illegal by the RIAA oligopolists? Since the media is provided to you on a "pay (or not) per listen basis", would incorporating a "save stream" function break their IP distinctions?

I am probably just being stupid or paranoid, but I sense a DeCSS style backlash to products like this if decentralised "pirate" streamers ever become popular.

cool!

[Anonymous Coward]

i like pages wide and source free!

Freedom is great!

[Shwag]

First file sharing, now radio! How about someone does this for Instant Messaging next. This would seem even more important then the first two.

Please give me some comments on this. Is it even possible ?

For user authentication, how about SSH Certificates or PGP keys ?

Re:Freedom is great!

[Anonymous Coward]

I think jabber.org fits the bill. Personally, I recommend the PSI client as u can use it on windows and linux and it's a pretty solid client. I recommend myjabber.net as the most solid server I've found so far.

Re:Freedom is great!

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh yeah, I forgot, you can also use SSL for all client server transactions on most clients.

On-demand http streaming

[turnstyle]

Goodness there have been quite a lot of streaming stories lately. I hope you'll also take a look at my project Andromeda, which dynamically builds streaming pages with PHP or ASP.

fwiw, Andromeda has been well received on Freshmeat. -Scott

thanks!

[Anonymous Coward]

--I've commented on the other streaming live audio threads. This is something I've wanted to do for a long time now, but the "serve the whole shebang from one expensive server" method was just totally bogus, expensive and weird for me, ie, "undoable".

I know that all of this is seriously over my head, but I just might give it a whack. I bookmarked your site and started downloading the docs, but it's slashdotted or something, keep getting stalled pages. I'll try again in a day or two.
I honestly don't know if I can do it, it's a ton of new programs and new stuff to learn in my "spare" time, I admit to a lot of n00b-ness in linux land, but I have REALLY wanted a talk radio experience for years now, so who knows, maybe your proggie will finally work for me. I just KNEW that distributed broadcasting just made more 'sense", but had no idea how to go about it myself. Left brain/right brain thing I guess, me and coding...it don't work, HAHAHA!

thanks again for your work, if I was a coder I'd offer to help more.

Delphi Delphi Delphi

[RebelTycoon]

Please can we get a header translation so that those of us can build upon your framework.

And also Windows... The client should have Windows support.

Thanks.

Assembly = speed

[Anonymous Coward]

Why NOT C?

Cause it's terribly slow!

If speed is the only thing that concerns you, either get a faster computer or offer to port everything to assembler. The rest of us who don't need 2000fps for a fucking MUSIC PLAYER will go on using whatever's easiest. True, Java's not as fast as C, but unless you're writing a 3D game engine or OS or using a slow computer it's fast enough, and more portable and generally easier to work with.

UNIX based you say?

[brad-x]

I'm looking for mention of UNIX in this article, and all I'm seeing is a Linux derivate. What gives?

Re:UNIX based you say?

[Anonymous Coward]

pedant!

Because then it wouldn't be cross-platform

[Goonie]

That was one of the major goals of Java - write once, run anywhere.

Re:Because then it wouldn't be cross-platform

[fferreres]

Yes, but that's a developers perspective. I can't help but wonder how usefull is beign able to run an app anywhere, if nobody is willing to run them in the first place.

Java widgets? Cool, they are needed and usefull. Native Widget are not needed to run an app, but people don't _want_ to run odd looking apps.

Anyway, was just a though. Though I like Java, it's lacking scope provided a strong reason for .Net's appearance and future success.

People with black background HTML

[Anonymous Coward]

and white letters on their web pages should be shot.

repeat after me: white background. black letters. don't fuck around - this is a tried and true format - one your viewers CAN ACTUALLY READ!!!!

Re:People with black background HTML

[Anonymous Coward]

I prefer white on black.

Its easier to read on an older fuzzy monitor.

YMMV.

Re:People with black background HTML

[Erik Fish]

Are you blind or what?

White/green letters on black backgrounds have been around on computer displays since the teletype started going out of style.

The problem is either your web browser or your eyes or both.

YOU IDIOT. LEARN SWT, READ SOME BEFORE YOU POST !!

[croanon]

You do not need to use Swing if you don't like. You can for instance use SWT, like Eclipse does. It is free GUI framework, using native widgets. You and idiots like you should be carpenter or something. If you like being stupid FUD spreader, keep on going your way. Idiot.

IDIOCY IS COMMON NOWADAYS.

[croanon]

You, my friend is IDIOT! Maybe we should write it in Assembler, it is faster than C. Wait a minute, there is no need for computers, lets turn back to thinking with cuneiform on rocks. And lets move to caves. IDIOT. >>You wont get any development support if you keep using java. Port to C. I PROMISS TO WORK FOR THE PROJECT, AND GIVE ALL THE DEVELOPMENT SUPPORT I CAN GIVE, FOR JAVA VERSION!!!!

Go to this addresses IDIOT:

[croanon]

http://www.towerj.com/ http://www.excelsior-usa.com/jet.html http://gcc.gnu.org/java/

Try compiling JEdit with Excelsior Jet, or....

[croanon]

.... Tower J, or GJC (gnu), and run it. Look out of your window dear friend. It is 2002. Not 1990. Write with C. Haha. Write with Assembler. It is even faster.

yet another streaming server

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm using jroar for my local ogg streams. Listen to their demo stream
http://radio.jcraft.com:8000/test.m3u
They insist it can be used for p2p streaming.

Its Windows counterpart is not closed source

[Snaller]

It might have been once, but it isn't any longer.

Re:Obey the DMCA

[Anonymous Coward]

If any of you actually were copyright holders (that made a living off of those copyrights, not this "I make $120,000 a year as a Unix admin but my original acidravefunkworld music is copyrighted" stuff), you probably wouldn't be so quick to endorse violating the DMCA in self-righteous protest...

A P2P "advocate" will tell you that he's sharing the new Star Wars video game he bought at Best Buy for $45 on Morpheus because George Lucas has plenty of money and that's within the "advocate's" Constitutionally-protected fair use rights. It's a false but politically-astute statement, because telling people that he wanted to steal enough intellectual property from Lucasfilm Limited so that a 48 year-old single grandmother working at the LucasFilm Limited reception desk will lose her $22,000 a year job due to a corporate budget shortfall would prove that he really doesn't give a damn about so-called fair use rights after all.