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A More In Depth Look at PS/2 Linux
An anonymous reader writes "I have yet to see a GOOD review of the Linux (for Playstation 2) kit... until now... "
The article takes awhile to get to the point, but covers a lot of information
about what you can and can't do w/ the kit, and more interestingly what
the author thinks the kit is intended to accomplish.
Together with some friends, we've spent 3 nights soldering an io output-debug channel on a PS2.
For all of you who intend to serial-link debug a PS station : DO NOT ATTEMP TO USE 3COM boards.
We've all grown gray hair until someone contacted 3com who admitted they've got non-standard serial board interfaces.
Probably noone is going to do this, but in case you do : don't go with 3Com
When will I end this grieving ? When will my future begin ?
PS/2 Linux
PS/2 is that IBM computer from back in the day
PS2 is the correct abbreviation for playstation 2
What disappointed me in that article was the lack of emphasis on actually using the thing to write software. What tools are available? Is there any additional libraries for using the custom PS2 chips?
Another thing is, some PS2s come with a copy of yabasic, giving it the feel of the the old 8 bit micro days where you could write your own BASIC programs, and save them onto the memory cards. You can use any USB keyboard for input to this. It seems to me, if you want to program the PS/2, this is a much more accessible choice!
you freaking morons!
That was classic intercourse!
probably the best ps/2 linux website
#include "coucou.h"
The guy speaks favorably of Ruby. I would like to comment that while Ruby is big in Japan, more western minded people might do better investigating Python, which gives all the perks of ruby, and more (maturity, lotsa available libraries...).
I think someone also gave a speak about game programming on Python & PS2 at Europython, just to be more on topic.
Save your wrists today - switch to Dvorak
bad troll, no cookie...
for the cd's: that's part of the unix philosophy: everything is a file (or document as Microsoft has recently come to realise)
Moreover:windows doesn't mount anything!
Beware of Programmers who carry screwdrivers. -- Leonard Brandwein
What the freaky, frothy shit are you talking about? Having to manually mount a CD is abso-fucking-lutly nothing to do with "everything is a file". Just to fill you in, its because historically, you would use a big reel to reel tape, and you'd...oh, forget it, you're too dense. As for this, Moreover:windows doesn't mount anything! you're talking total loony tunes now. Go back to Comp. Sci. 101, and get a fucking clue, shit stain.
Where is the human side in this story?
..."?
Where is the tale of long nights hacking way, man against machine?
Or the vivid descriptions of cafeine induced allucinations?
The joys of finnaling figuring out the function of that last pin in the Sound Synthesis Chip?
The humble confession - "After 5 days straight hacking i fell asleep on my keyboard
But NO!!! The author does use half the article to tell us about his phylosophical doubts in relation to Sony's posture, but that is a far cry from the moving story of A Man And His Penguin Against The Machine.
The children! Please think of the little children!!!
If they can get linux running on an old IBM platform like PS/2 then I will get my old computer out the attic.
PS/2 = Old IBM PC standard (we still have the keyboard and mouse connectors as a legacy)
PS2 = Sony games machine
Mouse powered Chips, Open source Processors and Lego
Hey, can someone quickly write a PS2 emulator for XBox so I can then run Linux on it and collect my $200 Grand. Thanx!
"Next was the USB Keyboard. This was packaged in a yellow cardboard box. Upon opening it, it appears as a standard black keyboard, but on closer inspection you find that the Windows keys are missing."
Let us not forget that all things Windows are PROPRIETARY!! MS Keys have nothing to do with a "standard" keyboard!! I'd hoped that a 27 year old guy who is installing Linux on his PS2 would have known that!!
blakespot
-- Heisenberg may have slept here.
iPod Hacks.com
Interestingly enough, the distribution chosen by Sony for the PS2 kit (Kondara Linux, not Kondora as the article states) is about to shut down.
There hasn't been an English announcement yet, but their Japanese site says that the Kondara Project servers (the free development group behind the Kondara distribution, which was retailed by Digital Factory, a commercial enterprise) will be closed down on July 15.
The reason for this is that Digital Factory, which owns the Kondara trademark, has sold its distribution business to another company, and the project was forced to quit using the name Kondara.
Luckily for fans of the distribution, a new group, which looks suspiciously like the old Kondara group, has just kicked off the Momonga Project (momonga is Japanese for flying squirrel).
It'll be interesting to see what Sony do, if anything, in the way of providing an upgrade path for PS2/Linux users.
I think the conslusion to this rather informative diddy is spot on, Sony is out to create a network of experienced PS2 programmers. Sony gets oodles of noodles for this move. The PS2 is probably the most popular video game system ever marketed to date, it makes Sony bunches of money. The only problem with the money making aspect is they need a constant stream of games for a system to be popular. Programmers are needed and plenty are interested but as the article says, experience with the platform is not as abundant as people willing to program for it. Sony distributes a system that allows people to poke around the platform and make their own amateur games in their spare time and get 2D6 bonus to their PS2 Programming skill.
Linux is the obvious choice for Sony to pick, not because Linux rox0rz d00dz but because it is a familiar environment for many developers and requires no licensing fee to distribute. The last thing Sony wants is their HDD/eth0 expansion system to cost them more money than it has the potential to make back for them. Paying a $20 or $50 royalty on some commercial OS (pick one, any one) per unit sold will end up costing them in terms of margins. Drives and ethernet adapters that only go down in price as time goes by and shipment volumes increase lead to high margins and eventually profits.
I've thought for a while Sony wants to migrate their computer division from being high priced IBM clone systems to being something proprietary and different. In many of their markets this is an easy sell because there is a shitload of brand loyalty. It might not be terribly difficult in the US either. Sony might pretty easily merge their VAIO desktop computers with future PlayStations. A wide availability of games and media designed specifically for Sony systems could make them a powerful player in the PC market. They already produce a ton of software for their VAIO systems, they could port a good deal of that to whatever OS they might use besides Windows on their new VAIO Stations.
This of course goes back to engendering developer support for the platform. By seeding PS2/3 platform developers early (now) they can set themselves up with a relatively large developer base, independant and otherwise, as long as they can keep their interest. Sony looks like they're intending to paint several markets with one broad brush. Derivitive systems based off the PlayStation architecture; from the dedicated console at $100 for playing games to the $2000 audio video workstation which happens to share 70% of the same parts or interfaces. Maybe Sony is looking to make a new Microsoft-free PC market. Can you forgive them for killing Napster? Tough choice.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
windows doesn't mount anything!
not sure if it counts as a mount but in XP you can add a drive and have it start at any folder in the tree.
You can have 4 ide drives all under c:
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Has anyone got wireless networking going with a Linux-based Playstation 2? A USB adaptor perhaps?
Cheers,
Ian
Very informative.
I've been considering a kit myself. Based on this I might just place my order shortly.
Although the reviewer was slightly suspicious of the product, he didn't let it affect his judgement.
From my Autobiography - "Lifestyles of the Sad and Desperate"...
halkun again? Well...
Once upon a time when standard Compact Disc did
not exist yet, Sony and Philips had separated
their opinions on the size of CD. But Herbert
von Karajan wanted longer time to store
Beethoven's Symphony no. 9 in one disk, then
Sony's proposal, today's standard 12cm CD, was
fixed.
Today, on DVD, U.S. Hollywood cinema industry
had insisted region lock to secure their profit
around the world, so Japanese DVD makers just
followed the decision and offered the best
solution.
They just design and offer the best container
to be filled with any contents, so you
should blame contents holders and software
makers in the case of DVD region lock.
About PS2 Linux kit? If you don't want it,
then don't buy it.
I prefer to roll em up and smoke em myself...
Thanks to this article, I've noticed that the kit is now available for order in europe. w00t! I'll be doing some serious PS2 coding soon :)
True warriors use the Klingon Google
then you can't have sound, or access the controllers. How can you make a game like this?
word.
I talked with a representitive from Sony a few months ago about this kit, which I don't own, for the PS@, which I don't own. I didn't like the answers to the questions I posed, but I at least understand their reasoning.
Basically what you are buying is an XBox, without the major loss for the manufacturer. The PS 2 is $199 and the kit is another $200. That's about that it cost to make an XBox, if you put two and two together. Quite interesting, but off topic, so...moving on...
The biggest disadvantage I see is the inability to create anything that will work on another PS2 with it also having the linux kit installed. No taking your home built games (or MIME, etc.) over to your non-super geek friends' house to show them off. This is probably the biggest stumbling block for me. It makes sense in a way, Sony makes a lot of their money off of disk licensing fees.
In comes my suggestion to Sony. Create a service where I can pay whatever the standard volume licensing fee is to get a bootable version of my Linux software. It would not be difficult to create an automated system to handle the disk creation. If I could pay $10 for a bootable copy of something I made, I probably would. The person from I was talking to did not seem very receptive to the idea. Seems to be this would be the smart compromise to take up.
They expect people to really dive into this, and not have the ability to share their creations in any way with others, unless they are another geek with the $200 kit. I would never suggest to most of the people I know with a PS2 they should get the Linux kit. They are severly limiting my incentive to get the kits and spend my time learning to use it.
-Pete
(above PS2 link is an affilate link)
Soccer Goal Plans
You just never see it or have much control over it.
If you have a NT system around take a look at the c:\boot.ini file ( if your boot drive is c:)
from memory (and probably a little inaccurate), that shows you the 'native' format for partition naming.
a few lines futher in the article:
I plugged the USB keyboard and mouse into my Windows box........It loaded the USB keyboard/mouse drivers and worked fine. The diamond keys were interpreted as windows keys by windows.
Well, they are the same thing after all. Just not a windows logo.
Bye bye, Freedom. Hello, Sony.
so whats better about plankstation2 over xbox then?
number of games? seems to me that in the many more games Sony has licenced there are no inovative or original titles and the GFX suck big time (even compared to the Dreamcast (although the PS2 has more GFX and Texture Ram than the Dreamcast allowing bigger enviroments))
I will be buying a Game Cube soon just because I want new and interesting games, not the drivel that is pushed on the unwashed masses.
Oh and I will be keeping the xBox just to play the amazing Wreckless !!
Maybe so, or maybe they intend to set up a series of competitions like that Roleplaying company has recently. Collect some new game ideas and either buy them off their creators or offer them a contract.
There has been a lack of really innovative games out recently, there's definetly money in producing something to keep the easily jaded game-buyers forking out their cash.
From my Autobiography - "Lifestyles of the Sad and Desperate"...
I bet all the kids are gonna go for that cool came the FSF has come up with. It has a name that conjures up images of action and fighting.
Unfortunately the glamor will wear off fast, probably after a few minutes of staring at the prompt blinking at them.
I don't suppose there is a workaround the Sony-imposed limitation of not being able to read data from CD-R discs, is there?
When did PS/2(tm) start to mean Playstation 2(tm), and not Personal System 2(tm)?
It's so confusing. I tried to play a Playstation 2(tm) game on my IBM(tm) 286 machine, and it didn't work! I just don't understand it. Maybe the disc is scratched, or something. It fitted in the 5.25 inch disk drive OK, but I think the hole in the middle was too small, because it made a funny noise when I shut the drive door. Now the 5.25 inch disk drive doesn't operate, and small pieces of shrapnell fell out when I tried to put a floppy disk in it. Admittedly I had to cut a bit off of the 8" disk, but I thought it would still work.
alas, it only mounts disks, no nfs-shares or samba-shares.
maddjn
--EOF--
The article is extremely accurate as to the packaging. I had expected a small box with a CD and a drive... but it was a large box that was well-crammed with packages. Sorta like xmas.
Like the author, of all the monitors I had none that were sync-on-green (www.playstation2-linux.com has a compatible monitor database so you can check before you try to see if you have a proper monitor). Like the author, I did the blind install (instructions also available at the above URL).
The blind install worked flawlessly for me and took about an hour (45 minutes of which it simply rattled away on it's own doing the install).
So... what do I do with it? Well, I have a number of uses. First... it is a wonderfully inexpensive full *NIX workstation. Because I am in Hawaii and my servers are in the mainland, I use computers in my house to monitor my remote servers on a full-time basis... the PS2 allows me to check my servers from the living room (instead of having to go up to the office constantly). Towards this end, I am designing 3D remote monitor software (that will monitor servers and display load, disk space, users, mail, dns health, etc... in a nice 3D graphical environment).
We also run the game 'tranquility' (www.TQworld.com), and are looking at rewriting it for the PS2 under Linux (I don't know if there is a market yet for Linux based PS2 games, but we'll give it a shot anyway).
The bottom line? Very very very impressive packaging. Good attention to detail - but yes, it's a geek thing because you have to be innovative and a digger to find all the info you want.
A very nice design... and also... price-wise pretty good. I can certainly envision a rack of PS2's humming along. According to the www.playstation2-linux.com website, a number of people have had them up and running as web servers for quite some time... and report great stability.
I have seen only one problem so far. When I ssh to remote servers and run 'top' for 5 days straight, upon stopping the remote connection and trying to do something else I have now twice seen ethernet errors of *no more space* (no more space on ethernet???? what gives with that)... so there are some caveats - but all in all, very very impressive.
The author, however, is 100% correct when he says it will be 6 months learning to fully understand/use the device. The manuals are complex and somewhat confusing (even though I have 25+ years of assembly and graphics coding on SGI etc..) it WILL take a while to understand and experiment with.
The only thing I need now is a MUCH longer keyboard cable so I can program from the sofa ;))
Aloha Nui Loa
Get a Dreamcast, BBA, KallistiOS, and SuperH cross-compiler.
Time for you guys to answer back.
With the Gekko and ATI chip it shouldn't be too hard to get DarwinBSD running, right?
The full quote:
::grin:: stupid delete key..))
Next was the USB Keyboard. This was packaged in a yellow cardboard box. Upon opening it, it appears as a standard black keyboard, but on closer inspection you find that the Windows keys are missing. In their place were keys with diamonds on them. I guess Sony is making a point that Microsoft is not their friend. Also diamonds kind of go with the schema of circle, square, triangle, and cross that's found on the Playstation controller.
This is tiny, irrelivant, and unimportant, but i just thought everyone might want to know: the choice of diamonds was not arbitrary. The diamond keys are standard for Sun keyboards-- they have a bunch of Sun hardware up at my college, and they all have little diamond keys on them. They act kind of like the command key on a macintosh, for example Netscape4/Solaris is wired so that diamond-N opens a new window instead of alt-N or whatever it is in linux.
((I can't remember, it's been awhile since i've used X in linux except remotely or in my incorrectly-xmodmapped linux/PPC install
According to this page, the diamond keys also act as "meta" keys-- that is to say, every time in EMACS that you have one of those special commands that you have to call by pressing ESC and then another key, you can just hold down "meta" and press the key instead. Useful ((If you like EMACS, that is... ^_^))
So this was actually a consious choice by Sony to be more UNIXy, not just Sony being anti-MS.
Does anyone know, if you plug a Sun/Playstation keyboard into a macintosh, does the diamond key act as a command key?
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Right now people just use the ethernet connection to move files between their ps2 and pc.
You can in theory use a sub cd drive to read cd-r, rw and music cds, but I don't know of anyone who got that to work yet.
"Never, never suspect the dreams within the dreams of dreaming children." ~The Amazon Quartet
First of all it is possiable to take a game over to a friends house. There are multiple ways to do this, first is to take the HD and all with you. Secondly (and easier) you can write a game that runs only off the memeory card. And just take the linux DVD and your memeory card.
Sony does not want to start publishing crappy games at $10 a pop. They would make no money from this and worst of all it could mess up the playstation brand. All the games published today go through a process, that every game must meet certain minimum requirements. You know, like not trashing your memory card, not crashing every 5 minutes, etc. If they just let you publish a disc that process could be totatly circumvented. Not to mention that you could just turn around and start selling your 'hobby' games for 30+ dollars, cutting them out of profits. Don't forget that it costs a lot more per disc to make one disc then a thousand.
I agree that it would be cool, but this is their platform. It is not open and expecting them to open it is silly.
Happy July 4th you filthy pig fuckers.
At least we're not _cold_ filthy pig fuckers.
As my father lik@(munch munch)...
I was wondering that myself, given that it would neatly solve the problem something in the lounge that hooks up to the MP3 server, with neither a clumsy PC nor lots of nasty cabling. I found this, but can't actually seem to find it on sale, or get a guide price. I know it's not exactly a wireless adaptor for the PS2, but it solves the same problem, and without needing anyone to actually port anything.
Maybe slightly off-topic, but whatever happened to the Runix linux port for PS1 and PS2?
Linux for the PlayStation 1
There website is no longer accessible and I couldn't find anything w/ google. Anyone know anything? Did sony wax them?
There dist had much better hope as it didn't have the RTE, booted from CD, etc.
jason
I've had a PSX since about a year after it came out and got a PS2 the very day it came out, so I have also had a PS Underground subscription for close to that time for the regular demo discs it comes with. Recently, it started being bundled with the Playstation Magazine. They are doing a PS2 Broadband thing as that's due out soon, and listed configurations of how to hook up a PS2 to the Internet.
The one that may interest you is using a Linksys Wireless Ethernet Bridge here
the ploystation 2 is better than the Hex Box in one way - It's NOT made by Microsoft. Sony are no angels - they've been proven to litigate at te drop of the hat in the past, the pour VAST sums of money into hopeless products like MiniDisc, they have achieved a frightening level of vertical integration, and there's a worrying possibiltiy that their creativity will die with Morita. But, despite all this, they're hardly a patch on Microsoft which seems to operate more like the Mafia than a publicly traded corporation (embrace and extend and cutting off the air supply sound like mob tactics to me), and what do they do with all their profits? pile 'em up in the bank by the looks of things, as they don't seem to pay divvies. Extraordinary. Anyway, I'll support Sony and Apple and Sun and whoever else I can until this fucking monopoly is BROKEN, and the tech industry is free again.
That was classic intercourse!
Sony said they'll be suing anyone who shares MP3.
Talk about paranoid...no access to the save games...no access to PS1 mode.
Fuck it. its more cost effective to buy a beige box and put Linux on it.
One other huge motivating factor for Sony is that they have a huge NIH complex. By driving the hardware and software ends it is all Sony. The only reason they picked Linux and not NeWS is that nobody knows anything about NeWS!