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Alternative-Fuel Vehicle Recommendations?
Ellen Spertus asks: "My husband and I lease a pure electric GM EV-1, which we love, and need to replace our second car, a conventional Honda Accord, which recently died. We'd get a second EV-1, but GM has stopped making them. I haven't been able to find any available all-eletric car with the range (>=50 miles roundtrip) and speed (>=65 mph) that I need. Does the Slashdot community have any experience, wisdom, or advice on choosing an alternative fuel car?"
"I'm currently considering:
- Toyota Prius, a hybrid sedan
- Honda Insight, a hybrid two-seater
- Honda Civic GX, a compressed natural gas (CNG) powered sedan
Biodiesel is one alternative energy means that I think has real potential. Apparently there's all sorts of new grants available for folks wanting to get involved.
Just don't try to start that french fry grease up on a cold morning.
. We've got computers, we're tapping phone lines, you know that ain't allowed - Talking Heads, "Life During Wartime"
The The Honda Civic Hybrid ? It uses gas and electric, and gets pretty sweet mileage, plus its battery is self charging....
...but what about the Flintstones car? Methane emissions were low and it ran on calories. =)
Many cars can be converted to run on Natural Gas. Ask someone locally with a car that runs on it where they got theirs done.
Just note that you'll probably lose a lot of trunk space unless you want to risk running out of Natural Gas between trips.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
If you live in the Midwest, it's very feasable to use a conventional gasoline car, just fill it up with ethanol. It burns cleaner, hotter, and more effeciently than traditional gas. More importantly, you will be supporting a fuel source that can be grown out of the earth, and unlike oil, you won't be giving your money to a foreign dictator or Texas oil-baron.
...is that they all look like ass.
I actually semi-considered getting an Insight until I saw the fucking thing. It's hideous! It looks like a squashed milk carton. The one I saw was barf-green, too, which didn't help matters much.
I ended up getting a 3-series instead, which not only doesn't look like ass, but also has no problem going over 65. (I guess I'm a Bad Person for using a gasoline-powered car though.)
- A.P.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
I'm a very happy owner of the Toyota Prius... I've actually gotten about 55 MPG in city driving, assuming I'm not in a hurry, above even the manufacturer's figures. It has been 100% reliable thus far.
/. after all, there's a growing subculture dedicated to "hacking" the prius (eg, installing MP3 players that integrate with the onboard touchscreen system, or even wiring video input into the screen, installing cameras for seeing when you back up, etc... :-) )
I was considering the Insight, but it's only two seats, and two doors as you mentioned, so I decided to go with the Prius, as it's basically the same size as any other compact sedan.
I was looking into pure electric and gas cars, but decided not to at this time, because sometimes I like to take long-distance trips (eg, between the Bay Area, and LA, or to Nevada/Las Vegas) and there are no electric or gas refueling stations for long stretches outside urban areas, making long-distance road trips impossible with these vehicles' current range.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius/ It might be useful for you as well, although it's geared more towards current owners.
As for the car itself, It's proven to be 100% reliable thus far in the 14 months that I've had it, and I've been averaging 50 MPG or so. It definitely is worth it, at least for me, since I commute about 45 miles a day round trip.
If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask me. If you want an independent assessment, john1701a.com has a lot of info on it from a owner. The group groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius/ has a lot to offer as well with many helpful people.
Finally, since this is
There's 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
This one seems to fit the bill, but it just blows away the others in the style department. Too bad that breathy carburated engine sound is replaced with, well, nothing...
http://www.renewables.com/ElectricSpyder.htm
If you are willing to buy a hybrid car, get either the Honda Civic Hybrid or the Toyota Prius.
The nice thing about a hybrid car is that not only do you get extremely low emissions (both cars I mentioned meet the world's toughest standard for gas-powered automobile engines, the California Air Resources Board (CARB) Super-Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle (SULEV) standard), but you can refuel from any gasoline station and get way over 400 miles between fillups.
Note that the Prius does take some getting used to though. The instrument panel is located on the center of the dashboard, the acceleration and braking on the Prius feels a bit different than a regular car in many ways. Mind you, the Prius has excellent interior room and a surprisingly roomy trunk, not a mean feat with space needed to hold the batteries.
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
I took a test drive at the local Saturn dealership and, well, I was amazed at the smooth (and very powerful) acceleration. I had expected anemic performance and what I got was a rather wild drive through the city. While the need to recharge the battery and small size may be serious drawbacks, the sheer joy of taking this car for a spin really made me think about applying for one.
It is disappointing that electric cars are not yet economically viable. Just take one for a test drive and you will see that there is a lot more work to be done in improving personal transportation.
Get a motorcycle with a hack. A used GoldWing with a sidecar will set you back less than $20,000. It runs on regular fuel, and will likely get between 35-40 mpg. You can use the carpool lane solo. You should get almost 200 miles to the fillup and hitting 65 is no problem. Breaking the ton with a hack should be doable.
An electric car is not an alternative fuel unless all of the power from your grid is via solar or wind (I don't count hydro, as this usually comes from a dam that disrupted local flora/fauna).
You may also want to consider one of the many turbo-diesel cars available. Gas mileage comparable to the motorcycle with more crash-worthiness.
In addition, there are many other CNG vehicles available than the Honda. At least there were. Two that I know of are the Ford Crown Vic. and the Ford Taurus. It's possible these are only available for fleet sales.
Check out corbin motors for an interesting vehicle called the sparrow. It looks like there are TEN dealers in your area.
Finally, being in San Fran. with only ~50 mile round trips, what prevents you from using mass transit?
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
My mom had her Prius for a year and loves it. Recently, they took a trip to Minnesota and the cost for gas during the trip was insignificant. While highway driving consumes more fuel due to aerodynamics, I have often been able to get more than 80mpg through the city. If you trick the accelerator pedal, you can get it to run off batteries for several minutes before the engine starts charging and giving a boost.
The only problem she had with the car so far was running over accident debris that slashed a rear tire. Other than that, its supposed to have an incredible warranty. Something like 10 years. Toyota knows this is an experimental car, so they want to know what kinds of problems we have. None so far.
What did you do drive it into the Pacific? I leased 3 of them and they were Russian Trucks. Indestructible.
At any rate the Civic HX is a gas only and gets about 80-85% of the mileage of the Civic electric hybrid. The insight is more of a concept car - only two seats no back at all no storage really. The Prius is an Echo with a different powerplant to give you a sense of the bigger size.
Toyota is supposed to be delivering a hybrid next year if I remember correctly. Probably based on a Corolla floorpan.
First, the Corbin Sparrow really seems to taking hold in places like Los Angeles and to a lessor degree Atlanta.
However, the lowest emissions vehicle around is a bicycle. I mean this in all seriousness. The Bay area has a uniquely nice bicycling climate, and since you already have one car, you don't have to give up the occasional hauling-of-big-stuff cars are good at. And don't underestimate the health benefits of such daily exercise. I love it since you don't have to take extra time out of your day just to go to the gym.
In the Bay Area, there's even a service to shuttle bicycles over the Bay bridge for $1.
After a year of driving it (on the rare occasions when I can get it away from my wife) it's still an utterly satisfying car, with super-ultra-low emissions (SULEV) and high gas milesage as icing on the cake.
Society of Automotive Engineers voted it best engineered car of 2001. I think it's the car Dilbert would drive.
The Honda Civic hybrid is the most direct competition. The Prius transmission is more elegant and *may* last longer, and the availability of pure-electric drive means the engine never needs to do destructive low-speed operation once it's warmed up. You may prefer the feel of the brakes on the Civic, and in ten years I bet it's easier to find Civic parts than Prius parts.
Check out the auto part of Ebay. Just last month I saw a CNG converted 2000 Ford Aerostar with 10,000 miles sell for $6,500. Sale was in California.
Just make sure you can get CNG where you are going. Other than that, BioDiesel is a good alternative.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Also, the new Civic Hybrid is a full five-passenger hybrid sedan, which really means that there's no reason anyone (who doesn't need a minivan) can't get a hybrid vehicles these days. The Prius and Insight, due to their smaller size, get better mileage, but at 45 mpg city and 50 mpg highway the Civic isn't bad either.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
I've done a bit of research in my quest to find my next car and here's what I found:
-The current hybrid vehicles, IMO, offer a false ecomony due to their higher sticker price and uncertain disposal/replacement cost for the batteries +/- 8 years down the road.
-Looking at the Honda lineup it would make more sense economically to purchase the Civic HX Coupe or any other of the other non-hybrid Civics (or 4 cylinder Accords for that matter).
-Take a look at Intellichoice.com and fueleconomy.gov and do some calculations to determine the real, long term cost of a number of other vehicles (Ford Focus, Honda, Toyota, Saturn, etc)and see how it stacks up to the hybrids.
-The one caveat is that you need to know what happens what it is time to replace the batteries on a hybrid car.
-Lastly, check local rebates for buying a hybrid vehicle in your area, that might make up the initial cost difference in buying a hybrid vehicle.
Good luck!
Many people who drive electric vehicles do so because they believe that since they are zero-emission, they do not pollute. However, that is not the case. Remember, the power company that supplies your power to charge the car most likey does so by consuming natural resources (coal, oil, natural gas) or using nuclear power (which has concerns of its own). In fact, you may actually end up polluting more that a convensional vehicle. While the Insight, Prius, and Civic Hybrid are quite nice, I would recomment the Nissan Sentra CA. It is PZLEV (partial zero-emissions vehicle) and is the only SULEV vehicle on the road. The only caveat is that it is only sold in California. Nissan claims that this car pollutes less driving 20 miles than a regular car just sitting in the garage. Definately worth checking out.
--- At my sig, unleash hell.
The Jetta TDI has better mileage than the Civic hybrid.. in fact i believe it has the best mileage for any vehicle that still uses a fossil fuel of any sort.
http://www.vw.com/engine/index.htm?locnav=jetta
At last check, this benefit was not available to hybrid electric vehicles. Especially in a large metro area like San Francisco or Los Angeles this perk alone can pay for itself.
The California Air Resources board provides a list of vehicles eligible for the carpool lane perk - choose carefully because not all alternative fuel vehicles are eligible!
A good resource to learn more is NGV.ORG (I've linked to google's cache... this is a small box, please don't hammer our server.) which provides a list of cofunding opportunities available for natural gas vehicle owners, including tax breaks and rebates from the state of California.
Good luck in your search!
Hi,
;) Biodiesel is actually technically non-toxic and very hard to burn, and IIRC can be drop-shipped anywhere, so I _THINK_ you could even have it delivered to your house in large drums.. It's expensive (~$3/gal) but it may be worth it to you if you want to contribute to (a)saving the ozone layer and/or (b)keeping US$ out of the hands of despotic Arab states (and their terrorist pawns)..
Hybrids really don't count IMHO as 'alternative fuel' vehicles, since they use two fuels that are exceedingly ordinary: gasoline and electricity. They should qualify for partial EV credit, and they're great for reducing fuel consumption, but without E85 they just aren't 'alternative fuel'.
I would recommend a late-model Volkswagen diesel and biodiesel as a true 'alternative fuel' vehicle. Diesels are more efficient, create less CO2 and other greenhouse gases, and last FOREVER. I just recently purchased a Mercedes diesel with 362000 miles on it, and I expect to get at least another 130000 miles on it with proper care and feeding. My car can't take 100% biodiesel without some fuel-line upgrades (bio eats rubber away since it's more oxygenated than petro) but any diesel since 1994 can take 100%. Another option, particularly in colder climes or with older cars, is B20, which is 20%bio/80%petro. Biodiesel doesn't contain sulfur, and is naturally oxygenated enough to prevent smelly particulate exhaust. In fact, tailpipe exhaust smells like french fries
Couple interesting Wired links on biodiesel:
here and
here
Even non-biodiesel is a better global environmental choice than gasoline/petrol since it's less intensive to refine. Diesel creates more NOx, large-particulate exhaust and sulfur (which lead to smog and acid rain), but the balance of impact is in its favor overall due to the efficiency of diesel engines. Also, if we could press for low-sulfur diesel, NOx could be handled with catalytic converters.
Oh, did I mention that biodiesel can be made from any biological substance that contains triglycerides? Hempseed, soybean, even used cooking fats can be 'cracked' into biodiesel, leaving glycerin. What to do with the glycerin though, that's the main Q...
Does the Honda have a dead engine that's not worth fixing? If so, consider pulling the engine and replacing it with an electric plant, like this guy did. There's not much in the way of off-the-shelf electric cars (the EV-1 was obviously GM's attempt to prove that they're too expensive to sell) but there's a thriving community of people doing EV conversions.
Corbin sells an electric-only model, the Sparrow; they were in the Jet Li movie, "The One", in the final scene about "the cleanest city in America":
Sparrow's Specifications
* Onboard battery charger
* Three-wheeled vehicle registers, insures and parks as a motorcycle
* 1350 lbs. curb weight, 72-inch wheel base, 57 inches vehicle height
* 70 mph top speed, 20-40 mile range
* $14,900 retail price
The Sparrow II has a 30-60 mile range and a $16,900 retail price. Corbin also advertises a gas-powered car, the Merlin, with "a 300 to 400 mile range on a tank of gas and a projected 70 to 90 miles per gallon", but it won't be out until the fall of 2003.
Come to the University of Mars! Classes starting soon!
I've put about 11,000 miles on my Prius in the first year of ownership. About half of them are highway miles on roadtrips; about 10% of them are short (1-2 mile) hops in town. Its lifetime fuel economy is about 48MPG. Range is about 500-600 miles. On the highway it consistently gets over 45 MPG (and I'm not gentle on the throttle -- 70-80 MPH on the level, and I floor it when I'm crossing the Rockies -- I live in Colorado). In town it gets 35-38 for the first mile or two, until the engine is warm -- then more like 48-52.
The Prius has no transmission at all -- just a second differential that shunts power between two electric motors/generators and the engine. (How it works). It's all drive-by-wire: the gas pedal is just a rheostat connected to the drive computer.
The engine has a lot of cool stuff to it: an off-center crankshaft, variable compression ratio, and (ISTR) noncircular pistons. Because of the differential it runs at more or less whatever speed the computer wants, regardless of how fast you're going.
For me (in Colorado) a pure EV was right out because of the low energy density of batteries -- it's hard to climb mountains in a pure EV. The Prius battery is used for load leveling on the engine (gas engines run best when the load is conditioned). Climbing over about 2000 feet vertical at freeway speeds drains the battery, but the computer handles it gracefully and the car just slows down to about 55 mph (on a standard 7% freeway grade). Conversely, coming down more than about 1000 feet of altitude will fill the battery to the top from regen braking, and again the computer does the Right Thing, using the engine as a conventional compression brake rather than blowing up the battery pack.
So even though the Prius isn't designed for mountain climbing it works acceptably under even strenuous climbing conditions. The interior is roomy and holds five people with no trouble. The trunk is adequate. The ride is quiet, and the gas mileage sure doesn't stink. Cornering is very good: tight turn radius and surprising traction given the high-mileage tires. Clearance is adequate but low: it's 4 inches under load, though the bottom 2 inches is just a flexible plastic air dam -- so you can get over 5" high obstacles without killing the car.
The Insight gets better gas mileage, looks cooler, and has better acceleration when you actually want it (though I imagine Prius ROM mods will come out one day that boost the acceleration -- the computer really does use conservative settings), but it's also really tiny -- the Insight is more of a "geek sports car". Toyota went out of their way to make the Prius look-and-feel like a basic (if plush) family car, and they succeeded.
It looks like you're looking more at an alternative-drivetrain (Hybrid or electric) rather than alternative-fuel (CNG/Hydrogen/M85) car.
As to alternative fuel - Biodiesel has been mentioned.
Regular engines can be converted to CNG with relative ease - I once saw a Dodge Spirit (same car I drive) with a CNG fillup. Try to find a design where the fillup connector (big ball-shaped thing in the case of this car) doesn't stick out - it's ugly.
Engines can also be converted to use M85 (85% methanol, 15% gasoline), but it's not really worth it. M85 is 15-25% cheaper per gallon, but has only 50% of the energy density. Also, methanol is VERY corrosive, so significant portions of the engine have to be replaced with corrosion-resistant parts. Chrysler made a few M85-capable cars (the FFV version of the Dodge Spirit/Plymouth Acclaim and minivans), and replacement parts for the FFV versions are nearly impossible, if not completely impossible, to find.
Or wait for the likes of the Escape HEV - 40 MPG in an SUV body, pretty amazing. I'd like to see the middle ground - All of the current hybrids and electrics are tiny little ugly pieces of junk. I want a full-size hybrid sedan that looks just like its gas-powered brethren, or a hybrid minivan.
Of course, the question is, WHY do you want to go alternative fuel? These days there are far worse things for the environment than modern cars - IC engines have come a LONG way in the areas of emissions control. You're not going to save any money - Electricity costs are skyrocketing, and it's been shown that in the end, pure electrics pollute more. (While coal-fired power plants produce less emissions per kilowatt, by the time you factor in all the transmission/charging losses, you're polluting more). Hybrids get insane gas mileage, but at the moment the technology isn't mature enough. You're going to be paying far more in maintenance costs for your unconventional design.
I'm not saying that IC engines are here to stay forever, just that hybrids are just plain not viable yet and won't be for a few years.
If you think Honda cares about the environment, you're wrong. http://www.lemonaidcars.com/secret_warranties.htm - Their emissions control systems were so bad from '95 to '97 that they were FORCED by the EPA to repair any emissions problem with those model years for free - And Honda will fight you all the way on those repairs until you threaten to call the EPA on them. The Insight/Civic HEV is just damage control. If they really wanted to benefit the environment, they'd focus on large vehicles first, where hybrid technology can make the biggest difference. (GM had statistics that if one medium-sized city had their buses replaced with hybrids, it would be better for the environment than if all Civics sold in a given year were hybrids. Which is why they're focusing on buses first - You don't see it much, but GM is pushing hybrid technology research VERY heavily. Same with Ford - Their first hybrid release will be the Escape HEV.)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Here's the Honda website on the hybrid civic.
I test drove this model a few weeks back, and it was an absolute pleasure.
The best part? Pulling up to a red light, and sitting there in complete silence, without wasting any gas. Ahh...
I have a running bet with some friends. They claim that Hondas are the most reliable cars in the world. I strongly disagree but I'd like to see some numbers. How many miles did your honda have and what was it's cause of death?
Thanks!
Matt
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Electric cars are not as environmentally friendly as the Eco Extremists would like us to believe. First most electricity is generated using one of three environmentally unfriendly methods; Hydrodynamic, Hydrocarbon and Nuclear.
Hydro electric is the long term safest method of generating electric power. However, due to recent environmental regulations such as the endangered species act, it is very unlikely that any new sources for Hydro power will emerge. In addition, existing Hydro plant are very likely to come under greater threat severly impacting the amount of energy produce.
Hydro Carbon based plants (Coal, NG, and Petrol) are nearly toxic polution free. Nearly isn't enough for Eco Extremists. In addition, these plants do release a huge amount of C02 a noted greenhouse gas. Beware of global warming and all that.
Nuclear power is fairly expensive and quite "dangerous". While the process of generating power from these plants is quite polution free (no gasses, no emmissions in theory)the hazardous waste that is generated is quite deadly and needs longterm storage.
If you don't take into consideration what it takes to generate power, electric cars look good. Otherwise they look like foolish version of the cars they are supposed to replace.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
The Honda Insight is a neat car, there are serious problems with it though...
The battery pack is replaced often.. If you get one get the hyper-extended warrenty, as you will be replacing that battery pack many many times.. my friend has had his 18 months and has replaced his 3 times.... and from what I hear this is not uncommon for insights that are used as a daily driver in anyplace that is not 70-72degF all the time. winter causes the packs to die horribly.
weight limit.. I CANNOT ride in his car (Ok I'm a fat ass..) as I with him exceed the car's weight limit completely... most any american couple will do this unless you are in souther california and live the bolimic lifestyle or are not normal weight (180 - 230 lbs typical american weight.)
finally , they ding really really easy. a pop can has thicker metal. dont lean on it, dont fart at it dont even look at it funny as it will ding/dent instantly.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
The brakes are hard on your feet. And don't order that big order of ribs at the drive-thru or it will tip over...
I am not a number! I am a man! And don't you
my chouce would be the hybrid electric civic or the vw tdi based cars, friends of mine say they are wonderful.
I want 2D games back.
I was looking at these cars 6+ months ago when I was in the market. I had actually ordered a Prius, but cancelled when the 3 month wait turned into a 6 month wait. I hear the wait time is much lower now, tho.
At the time, only the Insight was really competing with the Prius; the Civic hadn't come out yet. I was living in San Francisco too, and there were plenty of Electric vehicles from Saturn, Honda, and whatnot. The Prius was by far my favourite choice.
The Prius had 4 doors... the insight is TINY, as are most full-electric vehicles. Far more importantly, tho, was the cool touch-screen system that came with the car. Geek paradise, that. The GPS enabled versions are the same exact electronics that are on the Toyota RAV-4, but without the $3000 add-on price. The dealer I talked to said they didn't think Prius owners would pay the premium for the bundle, so it's apparently greatly discounted and rolled into the car's price. I'm sure you're paying for it, of course, but it's a nice deal.
The other great thing about the Prius is the grassroots community around it. Prius Mods, a Yahoo! Groups discussion group has been around for a while to discuss cool upgrades and features for the Prius. There are a variety of other good discussion groups out there that you can peruse through a well-placed Google search.
The only problem with these cars (and it seems to apply to any hybrid or non-gas car these days) is the driving experience... pickup, accelleration, noise (the engines are quiet, but the cars are very light and don't insulate road noise very well; it's a tradeoff), top speed, driving distance (well, the hybrids are GREAT for this; EVs aren't)... etc. But from the research I did six months ago, the Prius was king.
First a disclaimer: I'm unemployed right now (please check out my resume and hire me!) and driving a '68 VW camper. I can't afford a new car, but that hasn't stopped me from looking.
The Honda Insight is a fascinating car. It's as if Honda took every neat new technology they've been working on and crammed it in. Unfortunately, it's small--just a two-seater--and expensive--in the low $20Ks.
For that much money or less, you can get a Volkswagen with the TDI engine. The two-door VW TDIs (the Bug and the Golf) get better mileage than any other car sold in America except for the Insight. You can drive non-stop from Salt Lake City to Los Angeles on one tank of fuel, and that's a trip I personally would take at elast two days to drive. They're also among the least-polluting cars available, though there are cleaner ones out there. The Bug has (one of?) the highest safety ratings you'll find.
The catch? They're both turbocharged diesel engines. Wait! Don't run away! A diesel engine doesn't have to be the awful, smelly, polluting nightmare you're all thinking of. When properly engineered, as is the TDI, it's superior to gasoline:
But the real thing to do with one of these cars is run it off of biodiesel instead of petroleum-based diesel. Biodiesel is a high-cetane (the diesel version of octane) fuel made from vegetable oil. It's non-toxic; you could drizzle it over your salad...though it'd likely taste awful. The maufacturing process is very similar to the soap-making process; if you've ever made soap in your kitchen, you can make biodiesel in your kitchen. Biodiesel and petroleum-based diesel can be blended in any ratio desired simply by pouring them together.
The real advantage to biodiesel, however, is that every pound of carbon put into the atmosphere via the tailpipe had been previously removed from the atmosphere by the plant. No increased CO2! (Petroleum-based diesel pumps carbon from the ground and puts it into the air.) And, because the plant pulls more carbon out of the air for itself (instead of just its seeds), each pound of biodiesel results in a net decrease of atmospheric CO2.
In essence, biodiesel is the solar storage mechanism everybody keeps looking for. Run all those trains, trucks, and power plants from solar power (by way of corn and soy) and reduce dependence on oil all at the same time! All the infrastructure is already in place....
So, buy a car with a TDI engine, and you get incredible mileage and have the option of using either fuel you can find anywhere or a very environmentally-friendly fuel.
Now, if only somebody would give me a job, I'd go out and buy one....
b&
All but God can prove this sentence true.
(Kissing my Karma goodbye...)
Can you name the truck with four wheel drive,
Smells like a steak, and seats thirty five?
Canyonero! Canyonero!
Well, it goes real slow with the hammer down
It's the country-fried truck endorsed by a clown
Canyonero...
Canyonerooo!
(Krusty)Hey hey!
The federal highway commision has ruled the Canyonero unsafe for highway or city driving.
Canyonerooo!
Twelve yards long, two lanes wide, sixty-five tons of American pride!
Canyonero...
Canyonerooo!
Top o' the line in utility sports,
unexplained fires are a matter for the courts!
Canyonero...
Canyonerooo!
She blinds everybody with her super-high beams,
she's a squirrel-squashin', deer-smackin', drivin' machine!
Canyonero...
Canyonerooo!
Yah!
Yah, Canyonero!
Yah!
Whoa, Canyonero!
Whoa!
Ignition timing and fuel injector timing have to be changed for alternative fuels. Not too difficult, but it's not as simple as filling up. Improper fuel mixture can kill your engine very quickly.
And that's not even taking into account that alcohol-based fuels are very corrosive and will destroy engine parts not made specifically to tolerate them. (Like the FFV Chrysler vehicles of the late '80s and early '90s)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Other notes: A hybrid (Prius, Insight, Civic Hybrid) does not qualify for an electric vehicle tax credit, but does qualify for a "clean fuel" tax deduction, for up to $2000 (you needn't itemize to take the deduction). A hybrid may or may not qualify you to single-passenger-drive in HOV lanes... in California, it does not. This is typically because hybrids (burning gasoline) are not regarded by the goverment as true "alternative fuel" vehicles.
Disclaimer: I own an Insight, have put almost 50k miles on it and overall I've averaged 74 mpg. That means I spend about half as much on gas as people driving a regular Civic. It is ULEV-rated for emissions and the Insight tops the list of the Top 10 or so most fuel-efficient cars you could ever get in the U.S. I love my car. You could say that makes me a bit biased.
Can't you see that everyone is buying station wagons?
All of the fryer oil is spoken for. There's a big market for used grease. Almost every restaurant has a contract with a grease buyer. The buyer removes it from the restaurant (sometimes for a fee, even) and sells it off to chemical blending companies.
It gets turned into conveyor lubricant for wet conveyors (soda bottlers, breweries, etc) and tire mounting lubricant. I'm sure there are a thousand other things it gets turned into as well.
Oh, and it smells fucking awful.
--
pants ahoy
Arizona tried something like this, but they started with regular vehicles and then gave tax credits to people who converted their vehicles to be hybrid gasoline and natural gas. If your state tries to do something like this, run for the hills. Arizona is at least $1US billion in the red because to these tax credits. They are trying to work the numbers to make it $1 billion. To sum it up, don't let your local gov't give tax credits for AFVs ... it'll end up costing more.
vodka, straight up, thank you!
According to VW's site the TDI Manual only gets 49 MPG on the highway. Here is the link to the link to the specs. While the Civic Hybrid is rated at 51 MPG on the highway. The link (pdf) to the Civic's specs is here. Neither of these compare to Insight which gets 68 MPG, according to edmund's listed specs.
Now I'm not sure how you can say that the TDI has the best mileage for any vehicle that uses fossil fuel, when, it does not get the best mileage.
It should also be noted that the Jetta TDI burns diseal fuel instead of Unleaded gasoline. I do not, however, remember if diseal or unleaded burns cleaner.
I totally agree. I had a Jetta TDi for a couple of years (sold it for the D/P on a house...dammit) and it was amazing. I would routinely get >50 MPG on the highway...that's a 700-mile range. Try that with a hybrid!
And with the new diesel combustion technology, it really is a pretty clean car as well. It's definitely worth a look for somebody who wants to burn less fuel and support the terrorists less. (yes, that was a troll...kind of.)
For some really good, geek-level info about the TDi cars, go to the TDI Club.
The Honda Insight is a lovely peice of work.
Certainly as a Hybrid it's not the greenest solution (compared to an all-electric), but it fairs well (at nearly 70 Miles Per Gallon it's one of the most efficent Diesel engines in the world) and it has very quick acceleration for a Hybrid, and I think it still manages to look pretty sexy.
The real bonus is that although it is a Diesel/Electric Hybrid you never have to recharge! It automatically regarchages whenever you decelerate (IIRC). This means you can travel long distances, e.g. cross country, without worring about having to recharge.
Honda have been selling them at an 18,000 USD loss IIRC.
I don't own a car (mmm public transportation) but if I did it would be one of these.
I think the only downside would be lack of space, like a lot of regular environmentally friendly cars.
Diesel engines have greater NOx emissions than most gasoline vehicles, plus vastly higher particulate emissions. I understand that both of these can be dealt with but you won't be able to buy a vehicle with such technology installed. If you are motivated by a desire to keep the air clean rather than carbon-abatement you are probably better off with one of the gasoline or CNG vehicles instead. People living in thinly-populated areas with large distances to travel would probably make the opposite selection, on the merits.
Scientists restrict study to entire physical universe; creationist
Way more expensive, and there are no production models as of yet...I.E.: No pudding to find the proof in.
erm, both cars are in production. in fact i could have bought a '99.5 Jetta TDI a while back but it just didn't have enough balls.. but it's still a sweet car.
and I read a review in the local paper that compared the two cars, and they found that they got better mileage in the Jetta.. so anypoop.
I recently had the pleasure of riding in one of these cars, and they're way nifty. Four of us drove from Washington DC to somewhere in central Pennsylvania and back again (about 4 hours at highway speeds each direction) on about half a tank of gas. It lasted a long time between tanks in the city too, even with all the stop'n'go driving of DC. I was *incredibly* impressed.
It had plenty of amenities too (CD player, AC, power locks and windows), rode quietly, was comfortable enough for a long trip, and didn't feel like it would blow away in a strong breeze. If I hadn't already purchased a new car 2 years ago, I would seriously consider one of these.
Of course, my opinion doesn't substitute for research, but on an aesthetic level I was happy as a passenger, and on a techie level I was all tingly at the thought of the reciprocating brake system recharging the batteries as we glided (glode?) to a halt.
GMFTatsujin
I don't know about Accords, but Civics have about the same half life as plutonium. Unless you're doing stunt work or competing on a racing circuit with a Civic, they'll run seemingly forever. I've had two, an '85 and a '96, and I loved driving them except for traffic jams. Lines of sight past the monster SUVs that litter the highways are poor and make for a boring, risky drive.
Of course, all hybrid cars still use fossil fuels. According to the EPA, the Jetta's combined MPG is only 45, which is about 10% worse than both Civic Hybrd and Prius (see this list of the all-time best mpg-getting cars).
Can't you see that everyone is buying station wagons?
I have had my Prius for about 4 months now... Got a brand new 2002 in Feb, there might be used cars available, but for the Prius a year old car was the same price as a new car. It goes 80+ MPH, gets around 50 MPG when I was commuting. Now I moved closer to work (that does a lot better for the environment anyway) and because it doesn't idle at low speeds on the interstate, only gets about 40 MPH when I actually drive it. The deal maker for me was the backseat. While the Insite gets better gas mileage, the lack of a backseat meant I couldn't take my daughter in the car... The Prius is an awesome car and I would recommend it to anyone that was willing to spend a few bucks to help save the environment
I have mod points and I am not afraid to use them
Between fertilizer, pesticides/herbicides and fuel required for cultivation, a gallon of ethanol yielding 77,000 BTU of energy requires inputs totalling about 131,000 BTU (if memory serves). In other words, it's a complete boondoggle.
Scientists restrict study to entire physical universe; creationist
For our next vehicle, my wife and I are considering the Ford Escape Hybrid. Overly-wrought flash page without much detailed info, but they basically say it will be an gas/electric combo SUV that gets ~40mpg and they will have a 4wd option, which is something that we actually need and use regularly as an avid skiers and hikers. We need the cargo space for my two large dogs, which rule out existing hybrid solutions; We currently drive a Ford Explorer and await a more fuel-efficient yet not entirely anemic solution.
Also, we drive an all-electric vehicle which though outside of the poster's requirements, may warrant consideration for anyone doing short-haul driving in sub-35 mph zones: the line of vehicles from GEM
We have been driving one for about 3 months now and use it for commuting to our offices and to downtown Portland. Neither commute requires us to exceed 25mph.
It has more pick-up than you might think. In the rain, the vehicle does a pretty good job of keeping water off you (my model doesn't have doors). There are doors available, similar to what you would see on a Jeep CJ, as an aftermarket accessory. It is an ideal neighborhood car.
Here are answers to some of the common questions we get, often in traffic.
Q. What the hell is that?
A. A GEM electric car, manufactured by Global Electric Motors, a division of DaimlerChrysler Corporation. The specific model I have is the GEM E825 Utility Vehicle (Short Box).
Q. Is it street legal?
It is on streets with a speed limit of 35mph or below.
Q. How fast does it go?
A. 25 mph.
Q. How far can you drive it?
It varies based on the terrain you are driving it on and the ambient temperatures, but I have driven it over 15 miles on a charge. The stated range is 35 miles.
Q. How do you charge it?
It charges on household current.
Q. Stats?
A. From the GEM website
Curb Weight: 1160 lb. with batteries
GVW: 1850 lb. (Gross Vehicle Weight)
Width: 55 inches
Wheelbase: 71.1 inches
Length: 116 inches
Height: 69.5 inches
Turning Radius: 13 feet 7 inches
Q. Is it fun?
A. You betcha.
As other people have mentioned, diesel is something worth looking into. The Golf TDI gets gas milage up with the hibrids, plus you get much better torque(if you ever want to tow something, etc)
Insight:
max torque, 89 lb-ft @ 2000 rpm w/ CVT
max HP, 73 @ 5700 rpm
Prius:
max torque, 82 lb-ft @ 4200 rpm
max HP, 98 w/ engine and motor
Golf TDI
max torque, 155 lb-ft @ 1900 rpm
max HP, 90 @ 3750 rpm
That is all. Carry on. </transmission>
I would strongly consider a hybrid car, but the fact is, I can't fit in any of the ones currently out. I suppose that people who buy economy cars are the ones most likely to be interested in a hybrid, and manufacturers are starting off in that direction before moving on to other vehicle types, but are there other reasons why no hybrid vans and SUVs are in the works? Are there any problems with scaling up the technology?
You've missed one of the best options currently on the market for electric car shoppers in California- Toyota has made the RAV4 EV available to the general public for lease or purchase (previously it was only available to fleets). I got one a few months ago and it's been great. Gets 80-100 miles range, max speed 78mph, has a backseat unlike the EV1. I miss my EV1, but the RAV4 EV is a pretty good car and I think it's the only compelling pure electric currently on the market for the general public. The one annoying part is that the RAV4 EV uses a small paddle charger, and there aren't as many of those as the large paddle ones that the EV1 uses. I've never needed public charging myself, but I don't know if that's an issue for you. I suggest checking with Toyota of Palo Alto about the car- they are one of the best RAV4 EV dealers in the area and know their stuff better than most.
On a semi-related note, in response to all those Slashdot readers who keep spouting the same crap everytime an electric car comes into discussion- yes electrics are cleaner even if you do have fuels like coal as the source (which is not a significant part of the power mix in CA) because it is much easier to clean fuel at one place than in every vehicle, and if you want to calculate environmental effects of the production of fuel, don't forget all the effects of making gas . Additionally, if you have the option of selecting your power source like we did (we chose Commonwealth Energy) you can in fact get your power from clean sources.
Comparison and environmental ratings of vehicles: http://www.greenercars.com/online.html
I drove a Golf Turbo Diesel from London to Edinburgh and back. I loved the engine on it. The golf got superb gas mileage. It also had great acceleration. They aren't joking when the name "turbo" diesel. I plan on buying a turbo diesel when I get back to the States. You can get the Golf, Jetta, and Beetle with a turbo diesel. I would highly recomend a tried and true diesel engine that gets great pickup over a new and untested hybrid or alternative fuel engine. Also, you should consider the body. A diesel engine can cary a conventional body frame. The hybrind and Alternate fuel engines use all sort of weight saving measures in the body to increase efficiency. In the long run a sturdy body will hold up longer. If you aren't planning on keeping the car for very long then why even get a fuel efficent car? After all you only see the savings in TCO after a few years.
The Volkswagen TDI engine (turbo direct injection diesel) gets about 49 mpg city. it's the most fuel-efficent non-hybrid internal combustion engine on the market. here's some linkage for you.
Just raise the taxes on crack.
Some other people have mentioned Ford's Electric division TH!NK, which was a Sweedish company that Ford bought a few years back. They are selling the TH!NK City in some markets now, as well as two models of electric-assist bicycles, and a souped-up golf cart called the TH!NK neighbor, which is targetted at people in subdivisions with low speed limits.
The TH!NK website also mentions some other Ford products, like 50 EV Ford Rangers available for lease in S. Cal, and the upcoming Focus FCV, a hydrogen fuel cell Ford Focus which Ford has announced will go on sale to fleet buyers in 2004 and they hope to sell to the public in 2008.
--
The internet is the greatest source of biased information in the history of mankind.
Toyota RA4 EV - yes it's an SUV but the NiMH batteries are supposed to last 100,000 miles, maintenance free; and it gets 126 miles to the charge; and it has all the creature comforts. I think it's kindof ironic all this high-tech stuff is being put in an SUV. Just think how much better the range would be if they'd put the same powertrain in a sports car with good drag coefficient and low frontal area. But, as far as I can tell this is the best new EV that you can actually buy right now. Only in California, unfortunately. I presume for charging it uses the GM paddle system like your EV1 but haven't confirmed that.
You could just get a used one on ebay; I was very tempted to bid on this but decided to wait on an electric for now. Here's an electric S10 pickup. I test drove one of these once; it's a lot like an EV1, same technology in a pickup. Supposedly you can buy these in California too, but I'm not sure whether new or used. Otherwise they tend to show up as surplus from electric-company fleet programs now and then.
How has your service from GM been? I was tempted to buy one of these S10s but I figured GM has been acting like they want to forget that they ever had electric cars, so what are the chances of getting good service 5 or 10 years from now? And these things are too complicated to fix yourself, probably. Whatcha gonna do if the inverter fails? AC drives are not common in conversion EVs, and tend to be rather pricey.
Finally, if you're not on the EV mailing list, you should be. You will get a ton of good advice there; most of the subscribers are hard-core electric vehicle hobbyists who build their own conversions at home.
And congratulations on having a brain and being willing to put up with all the stupid naysayers out there, or the ones who keep repeating the same tired old objections about powerplants using fossil fuels (nevermind that they do it so much more efficiently than even the best IC engine) or "why don't you connect a generator to the wheels and make your own electricity." I'm always surprised how otherwise seemingly-smart people will laugh at you when you mention something about electric vehicles. Every new technology has to have its pioneers. And in the long term the earth isn't giving us much choice about switching away from fossil fuels anyway. This is why I do not advocate hybrid vehicles. You can conserve gas with those, but I think in any conceivable future there will always be some alternative way to generate electricity, so maybe electric cars are here to stay in one form or another.
Turn your extra calories into an alternate fuel...
You bring up a very good point.
In particular my friends are comparing the durability of a civic vs any of the V8 based Ford Mustangs produced from 1987 to current.
We all tend to agree that Hondas do indeed last forever when driven under normal conditions.
However, where we tend to disagree is that they claim that racing a Honda and a Mustang under semi-abusive conditions, the Honda will still outlast the Mustang.
I'm going off of personal experience driving Mustangs (never driving Hondas) but I've torn down motors that have been well-maintained with 150,000+ miles on them only to find that they still bear the original factory cross hatch on the cylinder walls and the cranks only need polishing and no grinding.
I guess in general, most motors will do quite well if you take care of them.
Thanks for the info though! Much appreciated!
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
in fact i believe it has the best mileage for any vehicle that still uses a fossil fuel of any sort.
My Suzuki motorcyle would get over 50MPG on the highway (as long as I kept it under 85mph). Even the Honda Goldwings with the 1.6L engines were rated at 50MPG on the highway. Many mopeds and scooters get even higher mileage, some in the 100MPG range. Of these, some don't qualify to be ridden on an interstate, but most are vehicles that require plates and license to operate.
eCycle (oops, is that a deep link?) is working on a hybrid motorcycle that gets 180MPG (using diesel by the way). Pretty cool machine, I'd love to try one out, but with a top speed of 80, it would barely keep up with traffic on NY/NJ highways...
-- If god wanted me to have a sig, he'd have given me a sense of humor.
I also drive an EV1 in the SF Bay Area, and my lease is expiring in 6 months, so I have to start looking for another car. According to Saturn, GM has officially sent no word on renewing the leases, which in practice means they won't renew them. They do offer lease assumption programs, for you to take over a lease from someone else, but that only lasts 'til the lease runs out. (And, frankly, given how GM has killed the EV1 - saying they had no customers when they had waiting lists several months long, and simply refusing to manufacture enough to meet demand so they could say they only sold a few thousand without saying they only built a few thousand - makes me think twice about continuing to support them.)
The option I am leaning towards is Toyota's RAV4-EV. Top speed 78 MPH, range 125 miles. It reportedly leases for $477/month, a bit less than an EV-1. Sure, it's an SUV and not a sedan, but there aren't that many options for pure electrics under your criteria (which are similar to my own) if you're just a member of the general public, not managing a fleet of cars or something.
You know I'll be monitoring this topic too, to see what my own options are...
Then I'm waiting for a Jetta TDI *hybrid*.
Since the Civic and Insight are gasolene hybrids, and a conventional Civic gets about ~30mpg -> ~50mpg, a TDI might get much better mileage with a hybrid electric system.
But in the meantime I'm considering the Civic because it gets more horsepower for only slightly less mileage.
GPL Deconstructed
Interesting. You may want to tell this guy.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
And the reasoning is somthing more sociological than scientific. Pure Electric is all fine and dandy in theory. However, lets through in the the human factor, and because California (read LA and Area)is pushing these vehicles the most, we will use that portion of the world. And for people, the DINC, because they are the most likeley to be purchasing an new car.
The Idea is that everyone will recharge at night and, drive to work, finish recharging, then go home and be used to fill local high deman areas. Unfortunaly, what happened almost all of the time is that people go home, at about 5 o'clock, and plug in their cars, and start charging them, so that they can go out that night and do the movie thing, the bar scene, or whatever. Now you have the largest peak consumption time in the day growing to an even higher peak. This ofcourse has made the power transmission/generation shith their collective nickers. This makes the problimatic california even more so. This is one of the reason the major companies have stopped pushing it.
This still dosent bother CARB, even though the most in-efficeint sources are used at peak loads. These sources would be coal-fired steam plants in wyoming. Which is fine for california, they have moved their pollution across state lines.
The key is using state of the art stuff and non petrolium sources in conjunction. Current market level stuff uses brushless DC drives...ICK! Now here is some truely cool stuff.
I hadn't known about hacking the Prius. That is way cool. With the information in your message, I found this page on the MP3/CD hack Thank you.
The problem is that in the two cars cited, they can both average 50mpg...
So if a Civic hybrid and the Jetta TDI can both hit 50mpg, then the Jetta will have more particulate emissions than the Civic...
Me, I'm waiting for a TDI hybrid for the best of both worlds...
GPL Deconstructed
Great idea. You go build one, and let us know how it works out. Don't forget to allow for the weight of shielding. Oh, and the huge cooling tower. Yeah, it'll look weird driving down the road, but think of the fuel sasvings.
Appropriate quote from BTTF:
"I'm sure that in 1985, plutonium is available at every corner drug store, but in 1955, it's a little hard to come by." - Dr. Emmett Brown
Hey kids, there's only 5 days left 'til Yak Shaving Day!
Almost....
- 2, 00.html
Ethanol can be made from feed grain waste (when grains are raised for vitamins/minerals and the starch is discarded), and there's a net gain of ~16000 btu according to DOAg..
http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,46045
Still, E85 can't be used in most auto engines: it's too corrosive. Cars that can use E85 typically state it in the owner's manual or somewhere...
One small problem:
Therefore, the fuel cell-powered SUVs, to be available by lease, will be offered only to select private sectors, technology related companies, institutional organizations and research facilities. Although terms have yet to be determined, Toyota plans to lease a total of approximately 20 units during the first year to entities that have access to hydrogen-supply infrastructure and after-sales service.
Doesn't sound like this is going to be available to the unwashed masses for a while still.
Hey kids, there's only 5 days left 'til Yak Shaving Day!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PriusMods/
But beyond that, I just wanted to encourage folks to consider long-term solutions that don't necessarily involve buying the right car. If you have to buy a car now, go for it, but maybe as a part of that process you could take some time to write a letter to your government representative encouraging investment in mass transit, bicycle infrastructure (bike lanes, etc), and more broad support for environmentally friendly transportation methods (on land, air, and sea).
The energy and resources devoted to producing cars, even eco-friendly ones, and the infrastructure that supports them is still very significant in an unsustainable sort of way, and we won't be any better off in 20 years if we're all just solo drivers of SUVs that happen to be running on biodiesel.
Also, if you're going to join a motorist club, don't join AAA, use an org like Better World. Better World provides all the same features, but unlike AAA, they don't actively oppose funding for mass transit, clean air regulations, bike paths, etc.
Just a note ahead of time. Some of the cars listed below are only available in certain parts of California and are only available in relatively low numbers.
Pure Electric:
2002 The Nissan Altra EV (pilot?)
2002 Ford Thi!nk City
2002 Toyota Rav4-EV
2002 Lido Motors Lido
2002 Ford Ranger EV (fleet only?)
2002 Nissan HyperMini (pilot only?)
Selectria Force (out of production?)
Hybrids:
2003 Honda Civic Hybrid
2002 Honda Insight
2002 Toyota Prius
Web Sites of Interest:
EV World
US DoE Alternative Fuel Car Buying Guide (many listed)
US DoE Alternative Fuel Vehicle Listing (many listed)
California ZEV Buyers Guide
The world is neither black nor white nor good nor evil, only many shades of CowboyNeal.
You should get Satan as your motor.
Co-founder of GerbilMechs
You gotta love people that dont have a clue,
4 3, 212456,00.html
....
PURE electrics are responsible for the generation of more polution than comprable hybrid vehicles.
No ? Just look around at EV sites and it wont take you long to realized that generating electricity at a plant ??? miles away, transmission loss and all the fun add up to MORE FRIGGING polution in the generation of that electricity than a hybrid creates.
Not to metnion the long term battery and chemical disposal issues. Thats a whopper too.
Wait for one of the Borax Powered Hydrogen Fuel cell vehicles from Chrysler. Cost is supposed to be low, and emission zero.
Barring that look at some of the hybrid vehicles.
Sometimes I have to question peoples motives of EV , if its convinience thats OK, my neighbor has been using the same elctric lawn mower for 20 years, its easy, quiet cheap, the only thing he spends money on is a new extension cord every 3 years or so after he's chopped his umpteen times. If you are looking at an EV for enviromental reasons, PLEASE get a clue. PURE EV pollute more than hybrids, and some more than LEV.
My favorite action by an enviromental group was the guys in Calif, that burned an allotment down under construction. POINTS , 1 for burning, 2 like inscurance isnt going to pay and end up cutting more trees to rebuild ? 3, the fumes from all the insulation cooking ? 4 we deforest more area to rebuild an allotment "TREE HUGGERS" were protesting the cutting of trees ?
I would seriously wait for the Chryslers to be sold they seem AWFULL SLICK !
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/auto/article/0,125
If you havent seen or heard about it
Sig went tro...aahemmm.....fishing........
Advantages of using Biodiesel:
- it does not contain sulphur, thus the exhaust is less aggressive to the engine and the engine last longer.
- it is CO2 neutral because the rapeseed converts exactly as much CO2 as is released later when burning the fuel. An electric car however needs electricity, which is made burning coal or natural gas or nuclear fuel.
- it is cheaper than the mineral oil diesel, at least in Germany. We have lots of biodiesel gas stations too.
Some papers on advantages and technology:http://www.biodiesel.de/vortragen.htm
http://www.biodiesel.de/kraften.htm
And yes, I'm very happy using Biodiesel in my car and can recommend it to everybody else.
The price was also $35-45k, depending on model year and features.
$35-45k will buy you a nice luxury car with dead-cow seats and all the features you could ever want... or, it'll buy you the peace of mind that you're not harming the rainforest (a forest which, incidentally, couldn't give a rat's ass about your EV-1.)
Obviously, most people saw the price tag, had a seizure, and bought an Accord instead.
- A.P.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
I realize this might sound silly, but what's the point of an electric car? While the car itself doesn't produce pollution, it has to get its electricity from somewhere, and in the vast majority of cases it will be from a power source that pollutes anyway. Could someone explain this to me?
slashdot!=valid HTML
Just for the record, I did a little quick research to find out how much farm use this would require. I found an estimate suggesting that 1 acre of rapeseed was sufficient to yield 100 gallons of biodiesel. So...
Total arable land in the US: 464 million acres
Max theoretical fuel output: 46.4 billion gallons
Annual gas usage in the US: 400 million gallons
Now, depending on the fuel economy inherent to bio-diesel as opposed to unleaded, this would imply that with less than 1% of the arable land in the US dedicated to making bio-diesel, there would be a surplus of fuel available.
So, I don't think this is a problem unless my numbers about rapeseed to biodiesel conversion are incorrect.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
For 2003 there will be a Civic 4-door hybrid, with basically the next iteration of the Insight's technology. From the one report I saw about it, it's almost impossible to tell the difference between it and "conventional" Civic.
Get a Volkswagen TDI model (http://www.tdiclub.com/). In the US they have TDI jetta's, beetles and golfs (nearly every model in europe has a TDI, passat, lupo etc). In the US they are only rated for about 90hp(and 155hp of torque stock, they can get up to 115hp fairly easily), but get 49MPG (over 700miles a tank) for highway mileage. The TDI lupo (only in europe) is rated for 90MPG and costs far less than a honda!
They do offer a 150hp TDI engine in europe which still gets really good gas mileage, but won't run on current US grade diesel (which is real poor). There is even a TDI GTI! VW/Audi sells six different diesels in Europe (1.2l, 1.9l - 90hp, 1.9l - 110hp, 1.9l -115hp, 2.5l - 150hp, V8 3.3l - 225hp[available soon]) compared to only the 1.9l - 90hp available in North America. When mentioning these horse power figures though, we must also think where this power is available. On the 1.9l 90hp it peak torque is available at just 1900RPMs with 155 ft/lbs torque up to the V8 3.3l which generates 355 ft/lbs torque between 1800 and 3000RPMs. I guess we can only dream of these really high output models.
Diesel is good, unfortuneatly it got a bad name in the US due to the amount of black smoke earlier cars and big trucks would put out (about 2% of US cars are diesel compared to over 25% in Europe. A properly tuned diesel shouldnt spew black smole and has gobs of torque which is great for driving around town(you won't win a drag race).
VW is really the only auto manufacturer who still offers diesel cars, and their prices start around 15k. Plus you get a car which is much nicer than a civic both on the in and outside.
I expect more manufacturer's to bring diesels over to the US once the fuel standards increase.
On a side note, is there any technical problem which has stop diesel electric hybrids in cars (they have diesel electric trains). Seems to me you would get a more fuel efficent car than a gas electric.
Bring back the old version of slashdot.
You might like to have a look at this Parade here
Specs include:
Range : 60miles(EV60)/150miles(EV150)
Acceleration : 8 seconds for 0-60 km/h
Top Speed : 110km/h
Made in Korea.
The major benefit of biodiesel is that you don't need any major change in hardware. All diesel powered vehicles can use Biodiesel with no modifications.
I am a student at the University of Washington, and we recycle the used grease from restaurants by the university to fuel many of the campus vehicles.
anything less than 350CID isnt a real engine :)
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
um the VW lupo gets 90MPG, and is in production NOW. Most of the really nice diesels are in europe :(
There is a vw diesel concept which got 240mpg.
goto www.vwvortex.com for info
Bring back the old version of slashdot.
One of my partners at work has an electic RAV4. It's totally electric, and has a range of about 100 miles, and a top speed of 80 MPH. It's every bit a 'real car', it's exactly a RAV4 with the engine ripped out and an electric motor squeezed in, and with somewhat lower rolling-resistance (but still full sized) tires.
I love this car. It's big enough for four full-sized people, it's peppy, and it's wonderfully silent.
Of course it's only available in California; I didn't know if that's where you were from (GM's EVs were mostly in CA.) California also lets you drive this car in carpool lanes with one person, and lets you park at any parking meter for free, as incentives.
You can rent these at some Thrifty locations, if you want to try before you buy.
I can't say enough good things about this car. It's just wonderful. The only downside is the cost, which is an eye-watering $41,000. What makes that somewhat more tolerable is that you get a whopping $9,000 rebate back from the IRS, and something like $3,000 back from the state Franchise Tax Board. The cost of electricity ends up being about 1 cent per mile, far less than gasoline would be.
And, since there is no gas tank under the back seats, they put the spare tire there, instead of hanging it off the back.
thad
I love Mondays. On a Monday, anything is possible.
got to ford as they have a ranger (if you really want a ford .. yuck) as they have an electric ranger..
And then go to evworld.com and read about what else is available and coming.. there are several companies that seem to be moving electic and hybrid vehicles into their lines ...
Only 'flamers' flame!
At best this is highly misleading information. It is easily mitigated in a number of different ways by clearing the vegetation before flooding, by introducing nitrate eating bacteria and building an effective ecosystem in the dammed area, or even just by waiting a couple of years. It can also be solved legislatively by establishing requirements for area per depth for the construction of dams. It isn't like people want to go out and create dozens of useless shallow dams; energy generated by the dam is proportional to the depth of the dam since that determines the potential energy that is captured in the backed up water; if you only have a shallow region which could possibly be dammed you might be just as well off building a mill race and capturing kinetic rather than potential energy.
LibBT: BitTorrent for C - small - fast - clean (Now Versio
This is really important stuff. You may very well be right, and I'm extremely interested in what you're saying, but with specific information like this (where everyone's memories are contradicting each other) it's all meaningless unless you site your sources!
-Dave
We're on the road to Tycho.
The difference being that the vegetation eventually stops rotting. the coal plant continues to burn, and burn and burn.....
I have been researching Hybrids for the last year. U am also currently driving a Honda Accord. Here is what I have come up with. The Honda Insight is an engineering wonder. Everything is designed to be light. The word on the street is that this car will be discontinued at the end of this year [www.businessreport.com]. And if you have kids forget it, as it is only a two seater and doesn't have an airbag cutoff switch. The Toyota Prius is an interesting car. Advantages are that it is SULEV (at least in California), and that it can run off the electric battery without the engine running (at speeds lower than 30 mph). Disadvantages I saw on my test drive was that the first one I tried wouldn't start cause the battery had drained (don't know if it was a stupid dealer or design flaw). Also, I didn't like the center mounted speedometer or the weird shift (mounted on the dashboard). Finally, the Prius uses small low rolling resistiance tires, which people are complaining about. According to one post I saw, someone said they had to change tires at 14,000 miles. And since the tires are both small and low rolling resistiance, they are hard to find. Also, during my test drive, it seemed that the gas engine was revving really high at speeds of 40 to 50 mph. Another small nit is that the breaking is non-linear (it seems rather grippy when you press hard). Finally, I have been considering the Hybrid Civic. I have test driven this car twice, and I really like it. It seems to drive really well. Although it has low total horsepower, it acheived that horsepower at lower rpm, meaning that the accelleration felt pretty normal. The tires are bigger than the Prius, and it feels very much like a normal car. It is also quiet because the bottom of the car is insulated for better aerodynamics. One disadvantage is that, at $21,000 sticker price, this car is about $3000 over the price of a comparably equiped Civic. After driving all three of these, I am going with the Hybrid Civic. The IRS recently has announced a $2000 deduction for hybrid cars [detnews.com] Also, if you are interested in enviornmental issues, check out [www.greenercars.com]. It has green ratings for all the cars mentioned.
If you're trying to just save gas money, then it's easy math.
If you're trying to protect the environment, you must consider more complicated factors. I rarely see the following mentioned (esp. C); what other considerations are there?
A) What pollution is output and what does each molecule do? How does 1 Kg CO2 compare to 1Kg methane? Locally? Globally? (see the summaries at http://www.ipcc.ch/ for a good answer)
B) What pollution is output in the whole process or finding, extracting, refining, storing, transporting, burning and disposing of the fuel? What about the engine? For example, electric may burn clean in your car, but it shifts significant pollution to the power plant and the battery disposal yard.
C) Is the pollution you add to the environment stuff that would end up there anyway (e.g. fuel made from trees, corn, etc.) or stuff that would otherwise stay buried forever (petroleum, natural gas, etc.)?
If you care about human rights, poverty, etc. then you have even more to worry about: To whom am I giving money when I buy this fuel?
Of course the electric bicycle that should be the most appealing to the slashdot crowd should be the Sparc.
Seriously I would love to drive a fuel efficent, or completely alternate fuel vehicle, however the current selection the cars are just to damned small. I am a big guy(not fat just widely built, I don't need extra airplane seats or anything), and the size of this class of vehicle is just to small for me to be comfortable...
I drive a Regal because I am comfortable in one....
Power Corrupts,Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, leaving one person(group)in charge is absolutely corrupt.
...but it's best to keep it simple. Try a Toyota Echo. 30-40 mpg and it runs on gas so there's no huge batteries to go sour one day and have to be chucked and pollute the environment.
**>>BELCH
I've been doing the cycling thing ever since college. My experience is that a ten mile commute is very doable. The best part is that you wind up in killer shape from that. Ideally you'd live on the temperat west coast or the southwest. I dunno too much about the weather patterns of the Southeast, but I'll assume there's a couple of months out of the year where it's too hot to ride. When I lived on the west coast, my bike journeys were almost always in excess of eight miles due to various circumstances. Eight miles is pretty pleasant and fun unless you have to ride through mountains. Fifteen miles is doable, but not if you're on a tight time table and certainly not every day. Living out in the midwest the main problem I have is weight gain during the the two to three months where it's just too cold an snowy to ride. I find that if I'm dressed right, I can ride somewhat comfortably down to 15 degres F. After that I say F*** it. Getting back in spring takes a month before I'm totally with it. The other positive thing about cycling is that public transpotation is increasingly accomadating bikes. In Ann Arbor where I live the buses now have racks. In Philly where I'm going to be living, the trains let you bring bikes aboard during non-peak hours. This really extends your range. The other cool thing that I see happening in urban areas is that cities and conservation groups are making bike trails along rivers and other green ways. Depending on how they're laid out both can really cut down your time even if they don't cut down your mileage. No stoplights and no traffic after all. One not so postive development is that moutnain bike manufacturers are no longer putting brazings on frames for racks sturdy enough to mount panniers. The big thing right now is disc brakes whose fittings supplant those for racks. I replaced my panniers when they wore out with Dana Design Bomb Pack because it's a big day backpack that does not push your head downwards when you sit on the bike wearing a helmet. 'Course I'm still riding the same old bike, but I dream of getting a new one.
You're not kidding. Even though it is considerably popular here in Chicago (we have a very pro-bicycle mayor and many active riders), I still consider urban bicycling here to be an extreme sport.
Also, consider lending your support to the Atlanta Bicycle Campaign. From their homepage:
What to do, then? Go and buy an old car. Make sure it's in mechanically good condition when you get it, and service it regularly. You can do this yourself, at home, easily. You can buy an inexpensive workshop manual that will tell you about simple servicing right the way up to complex overhauls. If you choose a good car in the first place, it will last a long time, and if it's serviced and tuned correctly, the emissions will be far lower than most new catalyst-equipped cars.
The problem is that on short journeys, at low speed, the catalyst never gets hot enough to work properly. This results in that nasty "rotten egg" smell you get. Unfortunately, these low speed short journeys tend to be what people do most in town, which is just when you need the emissions to be cleanest.
So, in short, choose an old-ish (10-15 years) car that's in reasonably good condition. Don't pay more than about #500 for one, though. Get a workshop manual. Get decent tools. Learn to use them - you're a geek, aren't you? It's fun, rewarding, and good for the environment. You don't need to worry about depreciation, and even if you just scrap the car when it eventually packs in, you've only lost a few hundred quid, not the thousands you'd lose in depreciation on a new car.
Not directly related to the cars themselves, but wouldn't it be better to eliminate the long distance driving all together. Save on Gas an energy all around.
First Mass Transit baby, more trains. Give me the ability to ride my bike to a train station and then take a train to the general location where I work, and then ride the bike the last mile so to speak...
Trains run on Electricity. Generate that from natural sources, wind, water, solar got a building going up require it to have a certian surface percentage covered in solar panels. Put wind turbines on tall structures like industrial Chimmenys, and radio towers. Stuff like that....
Power Corrupts,Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, leaving one person(group)in charge is absolutely corrupt.
Clearly, there's no clear answer for whether or not a dam is definitely cleaner, but clearly, hydroelectric can be significantly cleaner than fossil fuels.
The last time I heard about biodiesel, the people who were promoting it mentioned offhand that it's tough on the fuel system and might require some parts of a standard diesel engine to be reworked to avoid long term damage. Have you heard anything about that?
What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey
Geo Metro with a tune-up. Including the tune-up, it might cost you $250. :) Good mileage (45-55 mpg), but power is gonna suck. 55 horsepower.
Late-80's fuel-injected Honda Civic 5-speed with the A/C compressor belt removed... 35mpg city, 40-45 highway. Had one for many years. Absolutely loved it. It'll do 80mph very comfortably and top out about 100mph. Even when it was out of tune and needed work, I got 0.00% emissions across the board. Extremely clean-burning car. 95 horsepower.
Civic HX w/manual transmission... They've made the HX for like 8 years, so it's a VERY established car. Uses a variable 3- or 4- valve per cylinder combustion implementation (VTEC variant) in order to yield excellent combustion efficiency with near-zero unburnt gasoline. Since it still has the good ole' 4 valve per cylinder setup available for high-load situations, you can floor it and still get decent pickup and ~110mph top speed. 40mpg or more, unless you don't know how to drive. If you also unhook the belt to your A/C compressor, you will probably be able to hit 50mpg on highway. Their transmissions are so well-made that they're often fitted onto performance Civics, since they've got excellent gearing and are practically indestructable. This vehicle is still cheaper than the hybrids of all manufacturers by a few thousand bucks. about 110 horsepower, if I remember correctly.
A small-displacement motorcycle! Get a 250-400cc street bike that has some decent horsepower and is light-weight and you'll get 70mpg every day of the week. It'd also save you a TON of money, as you can easily pick up such bikes new for as low as $5000. Anywhere from 18 to 30 horsepower. 1/2 the hp of the metro with 1/6 of the weight... these are no slouches when it comes to acceleration. Top speed will range from 60mph to 80mph, depending on the bike's design.
.... um, i lost you after "0110100001101001".
How about two 70mph cars (slow for the highway around here) head on? That's 140mph effectively. Most cars don't hold up very well, to be sure, but tiny little tinfoil deathtrap econoboxes seem to hold up a lot worse than larger vehicles do.
It has and is being done successfully. The majority of countries with problems are extremely poor and have built without consideration of social and environmental impact, just as these same countries destroy rain forest with as little consideration of the same issues. Read some of the texts you cite and you will see that many of the environmentalists call not for an end to dam construction, but for a moratorium until these countries resolve these issues.
In that respect I agree with the environmentalists. A good coal powered plant with adequate scrubbing facilities is better than a poorly run dam, probably in all respects.
LibBT: BitTorrent for C - small - fast - clean (Now Versio
Another alternative, and perhaps one closer in functionality to your old Accord, is the 2002 Honda Civic Hybrid:
The Honda Civic Hybrid home page
The Edmunds Review
It has four seats, four doors, gets mileage somewhere between 40-70 MPG, can get out of its own way, and is only US$20,000.
It runs on gasoline, but uses a dual electric motor/gas engine setup. So refueling will be infrequent and convenient.
Until a breakthrough in battery tech happens, this is the almost-best we can do. And you can buy it today.
Neat little European 2-seater made in a collaboration between Mercedes and Swatch. They are very nicely appointed and have a wide choice of engines including a turbodiesel. All get excellent fuel mileage. They are not available in the U.S. through a dealer network yet - I've heard possibly 2003. There's a guy in Florida who has figured out how to bring them into the country and even claims he's been able to get them registered in a small number of states. Problem is he's price-gouging to the max. Too bad
Another choice might be the Toyota Electric RAV 4, an electric SUV for commuters.
I would not consider a parallel drive hybrid: the mechanical complexity of having both the electric and the gasoline motor drive the car must be high, and you can get pure gasoline cars with equivalent mileage. Unfortunately, most (all?) current choice for gas/electric hybrids are parallel drive.
LPG does not was away your oil. In fact, it is better for your oil than gasoline. I think LPG converted vehicles change oil at 10k miles rather than 3k miles -- and the oil comes out clear. Gasoline is corrosive.
t'nera semordnilap
Not sure what the bushel of corn/ gallon of ethonal ratio is, but the fuel used per acre in the earlier post is definately off.
On my dad's farm, you can get around 100 and some odd bushel per acre. I think it might have been around 160/acre but its been a while. Since an acre is only something like 233 feet square, its not going to take driven feet to pass it. Some time operators like my dad use equipment that covers 15 feet per pass. Bigger operators use machinery that'll cover 2, 4 even 6 times that much (albiet with lower fuel efficiencies). And tractors get suprisingly good milage considering the torque that they generate.
Using modern farming practices such as no till or low till, you don't touch the field very often, so that comes out to 3-5 passes over the field in a year. Likewise, to try and keep costs low, any solvent farmer only puts on those chemicals needed in the portions needed, so that's declining. In fact, there're starting to get to the point where they can combine GPS and lots of soil samples with computerized applicators to vary the amount of chemicals over each acre to boost efficiencies as much as possible.
Anyway, thought someone may find that of interest.
I like lots of people. That doesn't mean I go carting them around the galaxy with me. --Dr. Who
Hondas poorly engineered and unreliable - Maybe, maybe not. Overengineered more like it - Too many fancy features that are additional failure points in the engine (VTEC, etc.)
Vastly overrated - Definately.
Too many of their anticipated problems are hid under the cloak of "routine maintenance". I don't have access to it right now, but I've seen statistics that "routine" scheduled maintenance for Hondas tends to be far more expensive and extensive than for other cars. Let's not forget that many Honda parts are dealer-only items (read $$$). Have you seen transmission fluid for a Honda at K-mart? Nope. Don't think you'll even find it at an auto parts store. K-mart carries Dexron/Mercon (Many Ford/GM cars, and I believe some imports), and ATF+3 (Specific to only one model of Chrysler transmission, but available in K-mart nonetheless.)
I was simply refuting the original posters claim that Hondas are indestructible and infallible. They're not. Not even close. Every manufacturer has their weak points, and none is perfect.
Ford - Body rust
GM - Generally haven't heard much bad about them
Chrysler - 4-speed automatics (Note: Designed by the same company that designed the transmissions Honda uses!) die easily. 3-speeds and manuals are far more durable.
Honda - Emissions systems so bad from '95-97 that Honda was forced by the EPA to repair emissions problems for free for the life of the car. Also I've heard their automatic trannies can be problematic. (Not surprised considering the connection to the Chrysler sick-oh-four mentioned above)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
131,000 British thermal units of energy are required to produce one gallon of ethanol, but a gallon will only give you about 77,000 Btu of fuel energy
One REALLY big question... does the 131,000 BTU figure include the energy absorbed from the sun?
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
The Toyota Echo has the same body as the Prius, and sells for about $10,000 less, say $10-12k instead of $20k and up. The mileage difference is only about 10-15mpg.
I did the numbers and came out with the rather alarming conclusion that you will never recoup the cost of the Prius in fuel savings, because the car includes expensive batteries that need to be replaced every ten years or so. When the car has been driven for ten years, the batteries are going to cost more than the depreciated value of the car. (This is not surprising considering how heavily subsidized the car is, a point made in other posts).
Car magazine (UK)'s monthly car cost and capsule rating section claims that the Prius is going to get about the same mileage as a diesel, and rides and handles poorly compared to the diesel VW Golf, which costs about the same. Motor Trend magazine, in an issue I bought about a week ago that's probably still on newsstands somewhere, agrees and much prefers the Honda Civic Hybrid. So if you need a hybrid car, I'd recommend the Honda.
Finally, in terms of saving the planet, the whole thing may be a wash. From what I understand, disposing of lead acid batteries of the size needed for an hybrid or electric car is a significant environmental hazard.
In the end, I'd probably take the Golf diesel unless I lived in California, where I belie
D
Are there catalysts to take care of that? :/
Yep
Will they work with US diesel, which is higher in sulfur than what Europeans buy?
Nope
How do direct-injection diesels get the relatively low-soot performance that they do?
IIRC it is via very high (over 10kPSI) injection pressure, which atomizes the fuel more finely than prechambered diesels, leading to more combustion efficiency (fuel efficiency and reduced particulates)..
Check this google cache link (I can't get to tdiclub):
Fuel FAQ
Nice troll FUDster:
All of VW's TDI-able models in North America (Golf & Jetta) come with an optional, but very responsive automatic transmission. Surprisingly VW has gotten the transmissions to the point were there is very little power/efficiency loss over the manual.
VW Jetta
My dad had a 1984 Oldsmobile Ciera that had a diesel V6. It got great mileage, had an automatic transmission, and lasted for over 250K miles. Oldsmobile offered a few other diesel models too, such as the Cutlass.
the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
Next year Ford will come out with a Hybrid Escape, which is a medium sized SUV. That link doesn't
work in my browser, but maybe it will in yours.
Slightly offtopic, but I recently bought a 2002 Honda Accord EX 4-cylinder sedan (with leather, etc.). The fuel efficiency isn't anything near a hybrid or EV (28 mpg or so), but I was surprised when I opened the hood and saw that it's a SULEV. Strict emissions standards are a good thing.
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
Slashdot mentioned the Tzero a while ago. I'm certainly waiting until I can save up the ~$70K to afford one (after they come to market, of course... :P )
I'm pretty sure I first saw the reference on /. but a search didn't help. Anyway, here's the source article on ABC News.
I think the biggest resaon why we don't see that many diesel cars in the USA is the fact the diesel fuel sold in the USA has WAY too much sulfur compounds in the fuel, which is highly-corrosive to the fuel-delivery and exhaust control systems found on European diesel cars.
With the EPA mandate to reduce sulfur compounds to under 80 parts per million in diesel fuel by 2005, this may open the way for highly-efficient diesel cars that will offer almost the same performance as gasoline-fuelled engines but at 35-45% better fuel efficiency. And with little or no sulfur compounds to deal with, we can use common-rail direct-injection systems for extremely precise fuel delivery and modern particulate traps and catalytic converters that will ensure that diesel cars meet the ULEV emissions standard.
Already, a demonstration of how effective a diesel engine can get is the amazing Duramax engine found on current-model GM pickup trucks. The Duramax engine allows a pickup truck to pull 8,000 pound trailers at 18 miles per US gallon fuel efficiency, compared to 9 mpg for the equivalent gasoline engine!
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
Coolfish,
:-(
Only one problem--the Jetta TDI is not sold in California and a number of Northeastern states because the exhaust emissions from the engine don't meet current emission standards.
To meet emission standards will require a new low-sulfur diesel fuel--something we won't get until 2005.
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
;-P
We're on the road to Tycho.
It seems like the perfect fit. As you already own an Accord, the Civic Hybrid will have the Honda quality, reliability, and fit-and-finish you already know and appreciate, and is very easy on the environment. Plus, it's much more useful than maximum-100-miles-between-8-hour-charges pure-electric vehicles.
CO2 is a greenhouse gas.
While the waiting list is pretty long and the price is high, you can get an electric car with a 100+ mile range that does the quarter mile faster than a late 90's Vette. Go see the T-Zero at A/C Propulsion's site.
Another way to go is to find an electric car conversion shop or individual. Purchase a cheap ICE vehicle, spend another $6-$10K converting it and you have a vehicle that will last as long as the body holds up that looks like everyone elses car, but needs far less maintenence and no gasoline.
Or you could just do the whole thing yourself. If done right your range will be between 40 and 60 miles per charge.
Remember Optima Yellow Top deep cycle batteries are your friends.
Once more unto the breach dear friends...
Hmm yes your right, I swear when I first saw this ~>2 years ago the review said it was a Diesel, not gas.
:/
I wonder if Honda make one that looks like the Insight (as I couldnt swear the one I saw was called an "Insight", just that it was a Honda), or maybe the rep just got it wrong
True, tractors don't burn that much fuel, but there are other energy inputs required. Typical fertilizer production (primarily nitrates synthesized from air) is extremely energy-intensive. Pesticides take some energy. Hauling the fertilizer to the farm takes a little, hauling the corn away takes more. Fermentation and distillation take a considerable input of heat. Overall, using the methods most common in America for each step, you'd get more ethanol per barrel of oil by directly converting it in a factory rather than growing corn - and with less labor and capital investment. This is reflected in a lower price for synthesized ethanol...
OTOH, maybe the methods could change without cutting the yield too much. For example: synthetic fertilizer (nitrates made from air) requires a lot of energy - but (in the US at least) feedlot operators often have trouble disposing of their natural fertilizer byproduct. It takes labor, machinery, and some fuel to haul the manure to the farms, spread it, and clean up. And for some reason, it's hard to hire people for this work... So with the price of energy held down by government policies in the US, the synthetic nitrates are cheaper than picking up "free" manure a few hundred miles away.
I don't know. I said I didn't hear anything bad about them - I also did not say that I heard anything good about them. I'd say about average, just like most other manufacturers. They don't have any major problems, but they don't have anything great that stands out. For example, Chrysler's 4-speed automatics are horrendous, but Chrysler has a stellar reputation for engine design (426 Hemi, Slant Six, common block 2.2/2.5 - First one is a performance legend, the latter two are some of the most reliable engines ever made. 300k miles? No problem.) Too bad Daimler is sending that down the tubes. Soon they'll be using *Hyundai* engines! Gotta love Korean reliability!
Anyway, I'm not talking stock prices here. (My GM stock isn't doing anything - I don't own any. I don't own any car company stocks. I drive a '93 Dodge Spirit that's rock-solid at 150k and has at least 50k more miles to go.)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
reminds me a reverse of the blue three-wheel car that was Mr. Bean's nemesis in a couple of episodes.
It isn't for everyone, but Lindsay sells several books on how to convert or build alternative fuel cars. From my last catalog (not everyone is online, so get the dead tree catalog - every geek should have it anyway) I recall books on cars that run on Steam, Wood, Hydrogen, and Elctric. Some of the designs are more dangerious than you want to use, and some are obsolete, but they are still a good starting point. Convert your current engine to a new fuel, replace the engine with something else, or build your own horseless carrage.
Expiriment with weird things like the Atkinson cycle engine, tesla turbine, Stirling cycle engine. Make a solar charger with cells you build yourself. Make your own alcohol. Put a windmill on the roof and get free power (good luck overcoming some pesty laws of physics on this one). There is probable something about fuel cells in there too.
- Fuel for cultivation and spraying;
- Fertilizer and pesticides; and
- Processing and distillation of the product.
If we were just trying to get off imported oil for motor fuel, the way to go would be to use CNG, LNG or oxidize methane to methanol to make liquid motor fuel. There are a bunch of manufacturers making cars that run on M85.Scientists restrict study to entire physical universe; creationist
Here in Chicago, we've made an art out of it. In particular, o local Bike Winter advocate has written a veritable howto article.
That sucks, I know the feeling. My advice is to go even cheaper next time. Get a ratty looking old dependable bike like a schwinn or raleigh from your local thrift scene. Or if you're anywhere near Chicago, Central America or the Caribbean hook up with the Working Bikes co-op. There's a list of similar organizations all over the US here.
Hmm, I think it has something to do with the American Dream, or some other conspiracy. ;)
Hey that could be a partial solution to the "global warming" thing. Make a very, very, very large geosynchronous orbital solar collector (perhaps overwhelmingly large?) and its "shadow" would reduce the heat that reaches the earch by a very,very,very small amount. The "shadow" which is really only a slight localised reduction in intensity, would move west to east each day and north to south and back during the year, so it would be spread over an oval shape centered on the equator.
I don't think anyone has ruled out the theory that global warming is the result of increased solar intensity, and if it is true, than this would be direct treatment of the root cause.
Don't moderate flamebait as Troll. Know the difference or you will be Meta-moderated.
That's what I thought. Why the Tzero which has questionable styling, and an interior that looks both spartan and very ugly? You can just take an already ultralight, beautiful Elise and drop an electric motor in it.
I drive a gas-powered one every day, and you can't beat the pure driving enjoyment. I wouldn't mind plugging it in instead of filling it up, except I'd miss the engine sounds.
On the more practical side, the standard Lotus Elise, about 40 mpg with decent range and great performance. People freak when I tell them how much mileage I get.
I'm constantly behind fairly new VW and Audi (same thing) diesels on the road that spew diesel smoke. The brand-new ones don't, but after a year or so they start spewing smoke when the driver hits the gas, and it goes downhill from there.
I'm very sensitive to diesel smoke (makes me sick), so I notice it every time.
GM - Generally haven't heard much bad about them
Ross Perot got kicked off their board by complaining about the poor quality of cars.