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Hop-On Hops Back On the PR Bandwagon
I thought CNN's gushing forth of breathless admiration in today's piece:
'Disposable cell phones on the way' sounded familiar.
Yep, it's Hop-On, the same company Slashdotters took to task last March
('Disposable' Cell Phone Actually Repackaged Nokia)
after reading the San Francisco Chronicle's expose
("Sample 'new' cell phone really just modified Nokia [8260]"). Maybe this time the technology is for real. Or maybe I'm just too skeptical for my own good. Caveat lector.
Me, I'm just waiting for my next batch of disposable clothes. Can't go outside naked, can I! I guess a phone and camera would be handy too.
eat the cell phone! mmm, nutritious.
Will the signal strength be any good, especially in rural areas, with these disposable phones? I'd expect that with sub-standard components, they might not be able to perform as well. We'll see though.
What I really need is a disposable cell phone that explodes 5 seconds after my minutes are used up.
-- Adam
that's right, that's what's comming next, the "free" cell phone.
How can they give away repackaged Nokias^H^H^H^H^H^H disposable phones? Easy, the "free" cell phone is AdWare!
Yes, it comes with a man in a monkey suit and whenever you're on a call to someone he hops around in front of you begging you to punch him and win $10.
Focus group studdies show that people just punch him and ignore the $10.
Hilary Rosen's speech was about her love of money and her desire to roll around naked in a pile of money.
If you ask me, it's STILL to big. Call me when its down to the thickness of a credit card.
Roving Web-Teleoperated Robot
"I may be quite wrong." - Socrates
Granted, they're not usually so inexpensive, but they're called TracPhones (or TracFones, however you misspell it). In fact, I bought a friend one a few months back for $40 on clearance. (Not like he ever seems to have the money to recharge it with minutes, so it didn't seem to do much good, but oh well.)
What remains to be seen is whether these disposaphones' minutes have to be recharged each month like the TracFone's (unless you buy a $100 "all year account" card) or whether they stay on for longer. I'm betting they'll be good for 6 months after purchase, the way the cheapy long distance phone cards are.
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
Americans are used to disposable toasters and cars. Disposable wireless phones are just the next step in the trend.
Anyone have an idea as to what the battery life on these things are? I mean, why would you buy refill minutes cards for these if they only last as long as typical cell phones (2hrs talk time or so). You could refill once then would have to spend another 40-60 on a new "disposible" phone. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Also, a deck of playing cards is pretty thick for this phone which makes me think it uses a traditional LiIon battery. Those are pretty expensive the last time I checked. I really don't see how they're going to make any money on this thing.
On a side note, it would definitely be useful for people that want a phone for just emergency purposes. One time charge rather than those pre-paid services that require you to refill every 60-90 days or you lose your service. This would be a true one time emergency phone purchase which would definitely have some sort of market.
Note the $5 rebate thing that they are proposing. If the rebate is $5, than we can assume that the phones are costing them more than that, probably far more. Assuming that their phones are costing them that much, add in the cost of service with a CDMA carrier... it doesn't seem like the company is going to be too successful.
Besides, the phone looks like garbage. The modern cell phone really took off when models started to look good.
Tired of legitimate data sources? Try UNCYCLOPEDIA
Me: "Excuse me, do you have debit?"
Gas Station Attendant: "No, but we have a bank machine..." *points*
Me: But there's a $2.50 fee for using that ABM!"
Gas Station Attendant: "That'll be $18"
disclaimer: to be used in regards to the tourist who will be looking for a payphone at 7-11 in 3 months
dmarien
The cnn article says the service will be run on CDMA networks. But Nokia doesn't build any CDMA phones (probably to avoid the qualcomm licensing charge), and the Nokia 8260 is a TDMA phone...
While I have to admit, this does appeal to my 'nifty-keen-go-go-gadget-toy' senses, I am curious what sort of ramifications this has for less than legal uses. This is the sort of thing a kidnapper could pick up to make a ransome call on, or any number of things where it would be useful for someone to be able to track down whose calling.
Yes, yes, I know...anyone worth half a grain of salt could clone a cell phone. I suppose it's just that 'security' sense in me. Otherwise, this wouldn't be such a bad thing for adults to get for kids, so you can call little Johnnie and find out where he is, when he should be home doing his homework, huh?
Awk! Pieces of eight. Pieces of eight. Pieces of seven... ERROR: General Protection Fault. [Paroty Error.]
Ok um lets just think about this logically. The whole point in having a cell phone is so that I can call people in an emergency or if some else needs to get a hold of me. What am I going to say when I throw the phone away and someone needs to get a hold of me? "Um sorry dude I threw my phone away b/c I had to get the new Matrix cell phone? or should I say it is b/c the "new" disposable has an extra button that this model didn't have?" Give me a break!
What if they sold low-end real cellphones, unbundled from any plan or network, for, say, $40. Then various companies could sell phone cards for these cellphones at 5 or 10 cents per minute. This would cover most of the needs of people who would consider disposable cellphones without the "disposable" gimmick.
This is getting ridiculous. I am as much a fan of convenience as the next guy, but this expectation that everything should be disposable, and the environment be damned, is completely out of control.
Americans seem to think that the oceans and lands of the world exist as their private dumping grounds. Well, I have news for you. If you weren't filling the world up with your McDonald's wrappers, cigarette butts, plastic trousers, and now cellular telephones, then we would have enough land to deal with the overpopulation problem.
Of course, this falls on deaf ears. America will not be happy until they have driven the civilized world into the ground, and taken themselves along with it.
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
Those pick-up and go cell phones you can get at 7-Eleven and other convenience stores. Except that they are even cheaper and WILL give people the following ability...
Disposable Cell Phone Super Power:
Truly Anonymous Phone calls. If these are to be treated like disposable cameras, then each phone probably has its own phone number attached to it. This would be interesting...
Never again to kid-nappers, terrorists and other world-domination minded hackers have to resort to "traceable" cellular phones! Now, all they need to do is go down to ANY convenience store and pick one of these babies up.
Hmm... I suppose that when that TIPS thing goes into action, everyone can just call and turn in every single one of those disposable cell phone users. I mean, who would want to use such a device? If it can be anonymous, only terrorists, kid-nappers and world-domination minded crazed hackers would use them!
-.-
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
You can't just throw those batteries in the trash, they're POISON !
And some of those electronics can be pretty nasty, too! Particularly if you consider the manufacturing process.
Fucking Americans, still wantonly raping mother Earth!
When the phone at your house breaks and you install a new one, can people still call you?
You are the weakest link. Goodbye.
So it looks like someone may finally have found a way to make money of GPL software - sell a posix-compatability layer for Windows along with gpl applications. [guess when we see this on the slashdot frontpage?]
Interestingly enough, they list as a benefit... "Optimize existing investments in UNIX applications by reusing code, which you can now run on Windows. Plus, update old code with COM and .NET technology to get new value from your UNIX applications."
I guess Left Hand forgot to tell Right Hand that GPL is evil and can't be used with .Net
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
A friend ran the North American production operations of a wireless handset company until quite recently, and he told me that, in multi-million unit volumes, the COST of producing the cheapest available handset circuit boards (not including the casing or assembly) was a bit over $20. Since that was just the RF electronics, these phones have to be costing them $30 or so, at least. Basically, once marketing and airtime is included (airtime wholesale will run them at least $0.03 per minute, or $1.80 for the included 60 minutes), if nobody ever recharges the phones, these folks are hosed.
Steven N. Severinghaus
Mail? Put "slashdot" in the subject to pass the spam filters.
CNN Fooled Again!
Oh, wait, that's not anything new.
.
Besides that, mobile phones are also a "moral minefield", as a NewScientist article points out, because they require components that are arguably fuelling a civil war in Congo that is tearing the country (and its people) apart.
Sure, convenience is nice, but isn't this just a bit much? They offer a $5 rebate to people who bring them back, but I doubt $5 is going to tempt the rich executives who the article suggests these might be marketed at (though it probably will tempt the lower income people it also mentions).
It's also probably going to attract even more kids who don't have ethe money for a phone right now, and who really shouldn't have them for medical (and IMO social) reasons. It's just another case of the predominantly Western consumer looking no farther than his/her own convenience.
He didn't talk about running linux on a new gadget. Unlike http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/07/23/003821 7&mode=nested&tid=137
Where he quote the kiddy "Except for the choice of OS, looks pretty sweet. Any chance someone will get it to run Linux instead?"
Well, if you are talking on your cell phone all the time, perhaps you don't have time to do your laundry... (at&t commercial recently...)
Tibbon
tibbon.com
it's a combination disposable cell phone/disposable dildo. I really think you'd like it, Xunker.
Coming back from an extended trip of Europe and Asia, I was appalled at how far behind our cell phone technology is. GSM seems to be the best solution. You can walk into little cell phone stalls on the side of the street in many countries, get a chip and a card with minutes - for as little as 10 dollars and viola, in a matter of minutes you know have a phone number in that respective country. Refills for minutes are from anywhere from 5 to 50 dollars. Your phone number is yours, doesn't change every time you refill your minutes. And my cell phone worked in every country I was in. I had to buy a phone for there - the GSM phone I had here runs at 1800, not 1900 as it seems to be all over the planet. Any time I happen to go back to Turkey, Greece, or even Singapore, I have my own number. All I have to do is change out the chip, and buy minutes if needed. Now, why can't we have that here in the States?
After reading the article, it seems that these phones are clearly part of a scam to obtain potential investors, and they have a record to prove it:
..the company has yet to receive approval from the Federal Communications Commission to manufacture its own phone.
As previously reported, The Chronicle found a raft of other questions surrounding the company. For instance, the California Department of Corporations raided an online gambling venture tied to Hop-On in 1999 for allegedly fleecing investors out of as much as $20 million. And last month, the state suspended Hop-On's corporate status, saying it had failed to pay $400 and file its tax returns for two years in a row.
I hope the state gets wind of this and decides to look into it, too often honest investors get conned into these types of things. Corporations taking part in these types of scandals clearly need their managment to be held personally liable (Ie. Jail terms for particiapants proven guitly of the scam). Yes, just like Enron Execs now.
Underneath the red plastic casing, one sample was clearly labeled inside as a "Nokia 8260."
The proof is in the pudding, where's the pudding?
Pretty much everything is disposable to a degree, the only question is, when does it become economically desirable to do so. Apparently this company feels the price is around that point.
What will they think of next? Disposable condoms? Nah -- not practicle.
sHi
Just picture a TracFone or any other pre-paid system. Then replace the full featured phone with a stripped-down piece of crap with no phonebook functions or display and you've got Hop-On's new thang.
It'd be funny if they weren't getting free advertising from CNN.
That's the problem with you Amerikans. You throw out your plastic trousers. We in Europe just hose ours off after we soil them. Much better for the environment.
Imagine the possibilites. For a couple of 10 dollar bills, you can get anonymous calling (although they might listen in...). And imagine the taking-apart possibilities. One could take the transmitters, screw with them a bit, connect them to their computers, or get two and change them to different frequencies for two-way radios...the posibilities are endless. And I've always loved taking stuff apart...and now I can add a cell phone to my list... I'll buy a few....If they ever come out. ;)
Orange
B.U.T.T.F.O.C.K.
it's a self- lubericating sell fone dildo and it is rite for you, junimotah. YOu are such nice ass and face satuf like that I want to sit on down wiht ahjiunimota mmhmm.
your wtin sistyer
Here is the page on the FCC website on the approval of the device.
/ forms/reports/Search_Form.hts?fetchfrom=0&form=Gen eric_Search&mode=edit&show_records=50&grantee_code =QHO&product_code=HPN1600
https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/oet
The relevent PhoneScoop page is here: http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/phone.php?id=179
Photos, a users guide, and other information is avalible.
Remember how silly disposable cameras once seemed? "When they first came out, most people thought, 'Ah, why would I want a disposable camera? That changed rather quickly" when consumers discovered new uses for them, said Michaels.
Yes, but I could always buy disposable cameras for around $10 (US), and today can buy cheap non-flash ones for around $6. That's easy to justify. Sixty minutes of air time for $40 isn't quite as easy to throw away. That $10 target is a big psychological barrier for consumers when the word "disposable" is involved.
AT&T can get me $0.05 per minute for state-to-state long distance, twice that for in-state long distance. My non-disposable cell phone gets me 2000 minutes per month for around $100, or $0.20 per minute. If I'm buying a disposable phone, I'd like to pay no more than $0.30-$0.40 per minute, or about $10 for half an hour. For that kind of money, I'd happily send one with my daughter to summer camp, or even take it on vacation myself.
Bottom line: $40 is too much. $20 is managable. $10 is ideal, and if they could hit that dollar amount customers would beat a path to their door.
Go fuck yourself troll.
that's right, folks. Buttfock is back, and in a very major way. for a limited time, you can get your own platinum-plated commemorative BUTTFOCK disposable cell-phone/dildo with rumble pack vibration call alert and booming subwoofer also it has a mirror so you can look at your taint.
YOu can get 90 days of cervix for 50 bucks wrjkdfjHAV fift afkoajmoiBUCKSfjIFJsafnfF
Seeing as the new picture looks just like that old picture, and the form factor (the size of a pack of smokes) is about the size, and the price seems about that right for an 8260 (40 bucks isn't exactly "disposable" to most people) and for that matter the button layout is the same as the 8260. But then again maybe it is all one huge coincedence.
According to a related story, the cellphones that people commonly use now are practically treated as disposables. I guess they're not out of their minds to create a phone that is at least recycleable.
pi = 3.141592653589793helpimtrappedinauniversefactory7
How could CNN print this crap without checking into the history of this company? Surely someone there remembers that this same company has pulled this scam before. Hop-On keeps issuing press releases every month or so touting how close they are to product release, and how succesful they are even though no one has seen one of their phones.
According to all of their press releases they will have CDMA, TDMA, and GSM phones. Quite an engineering and desgin feat for a company that employs 15 people.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
The only thing more annoying than a Libertarian is an (un|mis)informed Libertarian
they get so crudded and hard from jizz and shit that I can't even get 'em on anymore, then I go and buy new condoms. I spend most of my money on aids treatments and extacy so I don't have much money for condoms. Butt who needs condoms anyway?
See you real soon, SuperHighImpact.
I see we have a new Bulwer-Lytton competitor in the making.
Doug
um yeah you have way too much time on your hands! Get a job and stop screwing your mom sideways, k? k!
Disposable cell phones are simply huge waste of resources.
If companies want to sell prepaid time, why they don't sell SIM cards which can be inserted in any phone? Isn't this possible in USA?
The article said that the two major carriers that use CDMA are Sprint and Verizon. I personally have a sprint cell phone and it is a Nokia. So if Nokia doesn't make a CDMA phone, this would suggest that I've actually be speaking to people faraway via a very clever hallucination.
So ruling out my delusion (which isn't necessarily a safe bet), somebody's wrong here.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
I mean, let's face it. I've read your post and it's very nice and all but ledt's face it. nobody is ghoing to pay ten cents a minnit without a dildo included, especiallyu all the fag its
oersonally, I don't put things in my anus, but at least I would like ot hacv just in case and for my female freidns.
No problem. He makes the call, they track him down to within a few feet of his location using the E-911 system and shoot him.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
The parent is exactly right.
Exactly what America does not need is another throwaway item. Like the wrappers on food, aluminum cans and plastic bottles from the carbonated beverages they consume, these cellphones will just become another disposable tchotche to strain America's already overflowing landfills.
And it's not as if making them recyclable will help. Americans have no taste for recycling or reuse--everything has to be new (just look at the booming sales of new garish SUVs). Even if you could recycle 100% of the new phone, I wouldn't expect to see it in American's blue boxes. It's so much easier to just throw it out and buy another one.
This whole disposable cell phone thing is just symptomatic of an American culture that will overuse whatever resources it can get its hands on--lumber from Canada and its own old-growth forests, fossil fuels like it was going out of style, food, etc. And this thing just makes me shake my head, wonder if Americans will ever learn to respect the environment they are cultured to plunder, and pray for our fragile Earth.
Karma: Excellent Birds (mostly as a result of listening to Laurie Anderson)
Its always nice when someone comes up with a new concept but it would be nice if these things stays on the drawing board for the sake of our environment, I'm not saying this will melt more iceberg's or enlarge the ozone hole, but its a trend, we don't need more disposal things we need better built things that last's longer, like my unbreakable HP48..
http://www.intellipool.se/ - Intellipool Network Monitor
"It's so sad the way they hopped on pop"
Although I understand the importance of reaching the dispatcher(s) quickly, I wonder how much that prominent button (which probably completes the call with one touch) will clog up the 911 services, especially in major metro areas?
Oh yeah, never mind - this is just a scam anyway! ;o))
db
Cig:
ôô
Providers that only offer a single phone are doomed for failure, at least from a profit standpoint. why?
People don't *like* having the choice of only one phone. Almost always the phones being offerred are crap. Moreover, one of the most consumer-gratifying aspects of subscribing/purhcasing cellular service is the ability to select a phone that meets ones needs and personality.
MetroPCS and Virgin Mobile: They both offer a Kyrocera phone that really lacks a lot of appeal had by the other phones out there. Virgin's model appears to be at the very bottom, but the MetroPCS model isn't much better. Nokia's have the best software layout of any phone, but they're not available. Motrola's are sexy as hell and have a reputation for excellent clarity, but they're not available. Ericsson seems to be catching up, with a few really cool looking phones but those aren't available.
There should be at least interfaces + guides avl. via the web pages of how to program different models to utilize the CDMA service provided by the provider, but I've yet to hear of that occurring.
Money.
"...Like the wrappers on food, aluminum cans and plastic bottles from the carbonated beverages they consume,..."
Americans, after all, are the only humans who drink soda.
"...just look at the booming sales of new garish SUVs..."
Now, the question that comes to mind is:
Which pollutes more, a brand new SUV, or a 20 year old bug that someone won't let die (But he -is- getting a whole lot of use out of it!)
"...lumber from Canada..."
You're a kanook aren't you.
"...pray for our fragile Earth..."
Methinks that Earth isn't quite as fragile as you might believe. It has been hit with worse things than SUVs before (Say, massive comets?)
With my dying breath, I curse Zoidberg!
shoot a gorilla ourselves. Disposable elctronics are killing our natural habitats like few other things. There is a rather heinous link between mountain gorillas and cell phones :(
http://www.cellular-news.com/coltan/
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
what happens if you buy the phone, but it in your car, forget it's there for a couple of years, then REALLY NEED IT (i.e. break down 100s of miles from home) but some Next Big Thing in wireless comes along and the company stops supporting the protocol that your phone speaks?
What if you buy the phone, hide it in the car, trade the car in forgetting the phone is in there, and somebody gets the phone, calls in and gets your personal info?
Great, so every time you buy a new phone (and let's take GSM as an example) and a new SIM card and now you have to get a new area code.
What a fucking brilliant idea. We don't have enough area code problems already, let's give people disposable phones!
This message brought to you by an Angeleno who is sick of area code bullshit and will happily gore anyone who deliberately hastens the changes.
Zaphod B
When duplication is outlawed, only outlaws will have
Smith & Wesson gets into the pop-up stopper business shortly thereafter.
This idea of "disposable" everything is really attrocious. We have finite resources on this planet, a delicate ecosystem, and yet we go around making as many things as possible disposable, consumable, bulk-buyable. These phones are just another step down the road to complet unsustainability; no technology could sustain this nonsense.
Our "delicate" ecosystem is likely to outlive us by tens of millions of years, so don't weep for its sake.
Nor are we likely to run out of resources. Firstly, if we're willing to process low-grade ores, we have mind-boggling amounts of any desired material available.
Secondly, raw materials will stop being a problem when our garbage becomes a higher-grade ore than what we'd otherwise be mining. Expect recycling to make big money in the next century or two as cities become closed systems resource-wise.
The real issue of conservation is not whether we'll run out of materials or make the planet uninhabitable - it's whether the planet will be _comfortable_ to live on, and whether all of our favourite fuzzy critters at the top of the biological pyramid will still be here for us to look at. This is perfectly do-able; it's just a question of whether we, as a race, consider it worth a little added inconvenience and expense. The jury's still out on this one.
In summary, you are addressing the wrong question with your alarmist rant about ecology.
I'll leave it to someone else to tear apart your political rant.
Regardless of why people got their cell-phones, part of the reason for almost everyone has to be that they're just plain cool. Now how many of you would want to whip out this crap-looking disposable phone at a party? or when you're on a date?? puh-lease....
What I don't understand is how this is any better than "normal" pre-paid cell service you can get now? I was at the store today and they had some boxed Nokia 5190s that you could get when you signed up for pre-paid cell service. Honestly, I would much rather have a "real" cell phone than some cheapo "throw away" cell phone. Not only that, but I could get my own crazy face plate too....
Sorry hop-on, but your market niche is already taken.
Or, in other words, they're repackaging someone else's electronics.
I've been in Japan and the Philippines, both countries have very cheap (practicaly disposable) cell phones usualy between $20-$40 for the phone, depending on if you want games, or mp3 playback ability, etc. You just have to buy phone cards for more minutes, you phone # never changes, why would you need to buy a new phone? why hasn't this caught on in the US? Its great for kids in highschool and college that can't reliably pay the monthly fees of normal cell phones.
The rest of the world uses mainly 1800, or 800 or 900. Here in the US we use 1900.
Your excitement over being able to change out cards is only exciting if you want to take your US phone with you. Around here people just have two different phones, one for US use and one for overseas. It isn't as if your number follows you anyway, so why do you care if your phone does?
(Note that you can use one number worldwide in many markets, but it isn't cost effective. What junimota describes is the cost effective way, and the way most people do it.)
"Unnamed CDMA company" is almost certainly Sprint PCS. With start of Virgin Mobile service (any Best Buy/Circuit city has their phones) they finally got into virtual provider business. The only problem is Virgin became the first company to do it :) Given their phone price is $99 but minutes are much cheaper I don't think this one will survive competition...
Hyperom.com
Yeah just hwat we need if we are to fill the Amazon Baswin with grabage by 2020. Sheesh, you squandering, gluttonous pigs. How about thinking about he earth ofr once--most of them won't be recycled--they'll end up in landfills.
Quote from http://www.hop-on.com/fccpr.html:
Media Alert for Wednesday, July 24, 10:00 a.m.
FCC Approves Hop-On's CDMA Disposable Phone
Approval Enables Hop-On to Move Ahead with National Carriers and Retail Distribution
Garden Grove, CA, July 25, 2002 - Hop-On (OTC: HPON), the leading developer of disposable and fully recyclable cell phones, today announced that it has received approval from the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) for the world's first CDMA disposable cell phone.
(end quote)
Possibly just a typo, but still, it does make you wonder.
Over in the UK we had disposable mobile phones not so very long ago - pay-as-you-go handsets were being subsidised so much that you could go into a shop and buy one for £20 with £5 or £10 of credit pre-loaded on to the phone. When you'd finished with it, you could chuck it, or just sell it on Ebay.
What is it about the Hop-On phones that makes them more recyclable than standard mobiles, anyway? I can't see that there's going to be much of a difference in terms of what they're made out of.
I'm also slightly concerned that the phones have a one-touch emergency call button. After the problems we've had in the UK with people's phones accidentally dialling 999 or 112 (I know, I had my mobile in my pocket with keylock on and I received a call from the police checking that everything was OK), a one-touch emergency button should never be put on a communications device. Especially when said device is readily disposable - imagine the possibilities for prank callers.
Apparently these devices will be capable of receiving incoming calls - but, if the phones are disposable, where are all the phone numbers going to come from? Presumably, once a phone number is finished with, i.e. all the credit on it is used up, it is deactivated and can be used again. But the issue of incoming calls raises another issue - surely, if the phone were to accept incoming calls, it would have to keep permanent contact with a base station, and consequently the phones would have very short life - this makes them almost unsaleable.
Finally, who needs a disposable mobile phone when there are perfectly good payphones placed at regular intervals across the world, probably more readily available than the nearest convenience store selling disposable mobiles?
Like car accidents, most hardware problems are due to driver error.
I'm sure I've posted this before, but it's worth another mention. It seems Hop-on have promised other 'great' things as well.
In Australia, for months their was advertising for Hop-On - free Internet access on the back of taxi's. The website was www.hop-on.com.au, and you had to go there to register. (URL is now broken).
It seems to be the same hop-on as the website uses the same style and advertising mascot as the one in the US.
The free internet never came, and was never heard of again.
So I would be very skeptical of this company.
--jquirke
Read my sig if you like, but I'll never see yours, thanks to Discussions, Viewing, Disable sigs...