Customers Rate PC Vendors' Tech Support

VorfeedTech writes "News.com has a story on consumers' satisfaction with tech support. The article goes on to mention ConsumerReports' survey results comparing a few of the major PC vendors. Apple rated the best for tech support. I guess this is where they think different (TM)."

Comments

Reverse would be fun...

[MosesJones]

Getting Tech Support to rate the customers. Which company has the stupidest clients, and is there a relationship between quality of service and the intelligence of the people receiving it.

A Universal Truth...

[RomSteady]

Those in the know about any subject almost always think those who are not in the know are complete idiots.

When you are supporting something, you become a genre expert, and as such, have a domain of knowledge about the product that few outside of tech support could hope to attain.

Besides, when you've worked tech support, you only remember the bad calls, never the good ones.

Re:A Universal Truth...

[hkmwbz]

The problem isn't one-sided. The techs know all the problems, etc., but many people are outright obnoxious when contacting support, even yelling about things which are their own fault. Most techs handle this quite well, but it obviously starts wearing on you after a while. If you only knew how much better the tech support is if you are polite and pleasant. If anything, being a dick will lessen your chances of getting good tech support.

Combine this with the fact that people are usually pissed off for the wrong reasons, and you can see they the techs are worn out and don't perform as well as they could if people actually had a brain.

Re:A Universal Truth...

[danamania]

Having worked tech support for 2 years, for phone-based support of pretty much anything computing-related in state schools, I have to say it gave me the usual "oh god you won't believe what people do" stories, but I always make sure I mention that I've seen some of the most incredible moments of inspiration from non-technical types. It's like you're there when someone first figures out something that you KNOW they'll use time and time again in the future - they just needed a little reassurance. It's nice.

Most people were normal, about 5% were complete and utter morons who shouldn't be allowed near computing equipment as part of their job.

Obsessed with a Quadra

Dell buys adds => Dell gets press

[capt.Hij]

It looks like Dell's satisfaction numbers are slipping, and the article gives many excuses as to why this might be. It is a little difficult to give this much credence when they've paid for the banners spanning across the top of the page. Not only that but they gave Apple a few passing comments even thought they were the only ones to improve their satisfaction numbers.

I wonder if there is a connection there?

Apple, Gateway

[funkhauser]

I've had mixed results with Gateway. When I got my PII 300 box way back when, we ordered it from Gateway. The components were pretty flakey: we had a hard drive, a modem, and a monitor all die. However, when we reported the problem, getting replacement components was not a hassle. I don't know how they are about that now, but at the time, they were quite nice. I haven't dealt with Apple's tech support, but their warranty package has kept me from buying their hardware. The base warranty is pretty skimpy, and the outrageously priced AppleCare plan is painfully restrictive about what it covers.

Re:Apple, Gateway

[phunhippy]

The base warranty is pretty skimpy, and the outrageously priced AppleCare plan is painfully restrictive about what it covers

how do you figure this out? Base warranty is for a year(still i believe) and covers labor and parts & you can take it to any apple dealer..
the apple care plan is an extended warranty for however many years you want and is aslo a good deal when you factor the cost of the hardware vs life of the system and the fact it covers parts and labor..

I used to work at a mac repair shop in the old days(5 years) and i think apple care is a great deal...

Re:Apple, Gateway

[funkhauser]

Like I said, I've never dealt with Apple. All I know is that $250 or whatever for just an extended warranty is a little steep for a poor college student like me when the $1500 or so for an iBook is stretching it as it is.

Re:Apple, Gateway

[Outland Traveller]

250$ for the extra 2 years of no-questions-asked tech support is exactly what you want if you're a college student. Do you really think your laptop is going to make it through college in one piece?

As a comparison, try checking the prices of in-store maintenance contracts for the same hardware. You'll find Apple is more than reasonable.

On the flip side, consider that any hardware repair at all after the first year will run you at least 350$ for parts and labor. You're foolish not the get the applecare warranty.

Remember that apple systems have a longer lifetime than typical PC counterparts. You're going to be using that ibook for a long time to come, you might as well take care of it.

Re:Apple, Gateway

[foo12]

But that's $250 for three years of additional, full coverage. The initial hit is steep, but it's really worth it if you're paranoid :)

Re:Apple, Gateway

[pmz]

You're foolish not the get the applecare warranty.

Extendend warranties are a form of insurance. Insurance's purpose in life is to save us from financial catastrophes, such as a tree crushing a home or a major illness. In these cases, insurance is a wise purchase.

However, purchasing insurance on small things, such as a PC or a dishwasher is not a wise investment. For small purchases, the insurance is more expensive than a potential repair, because things just don't break frequently. It is more likely that you will never use the insurance, which is why companies enjoy selling it so much. Add up all the money saved by not buying small-time insurance, and that occasional repair is simply not a big deal, even if it is $350.

It is better to skip the insurance and spend the money on repairs when they are needed. In the long run, you will come out better off. An added benefit is that you maintain only a small number of insurances policies to track, which is helpful given their nitpicking complexity.

Re:Apple, Gateway

[pmz]

A laptop *is* likely to break at some point over a three-year span either from mechanical failure or (more likely) by human accident, especially if you are in a college environment.

Any object is likely to break if the owner is careless, and default warranties cover nearly all cases where the object breaks due to carelessness on the part of the manufacturer. If the object needs to be protected from its owner, perhaps a more robust version of that object is needed (like an armored laptop).

At a college, it is arguable that the laptop will be stolen before it breaks, which is covered under normal household insurance policies. If it breaks due to someone else's carlessness, they are responsible for the cost of repairing it.

I just generally consider the cost of something, even a computer, as a risk once the default warranty expires. If it breaks, I replace it, if not, I use it as long as it is practical. This works as long as I make purchases within my ability to spend (financing small purchases also makes no sense).

The applecare warranty is a good value.

Only if it provides something above and beyond just warranty service. If it includes hand-holding tech support for learning how to use the computer, it may be worth the cost. But, if it is just a warranty and nothing more, it isn't worth spending a sizable fraction of the purchase price for it.

Re:Apple, Gateway

[pmz]

My mom is a little out of the loop on the whole computer thing and she bought a PowerBook G4. So far she has broken the computer twice.

Perhaps she should stick to a cheaper computer; the iBook is much more reasonable in cost.

Just right there in less than a year is $700 for my silly mom if she wouldn't have been on warranty. When her warranty expires she will be buying Applecare.

This is another sign that the Powerbook wasn't a good match for your mother. If a product needs to be protected from its user, then something really is amiss.

The right product will: meet the user's needs and not be so expensive as to require financing nor extended warranties. This results in a low-risk purchase that simply works better in the long run. The question should be: "Do I really need a full-blown PowerBook at greater than $2500, or can I get by just fine without spending as much money? The answer can be suprising.

Re:Apple, Gateway

[King_TJ]

Yeah, my (rather limited) experience with Gateway is that their phone support reps are very friendly and try their best to be polite and helpful. Unfortunately, this doesn't always translate into problem resolution - since technical know-how comes into play.

EG. We bought a number of their slim desktop systems a few years ago at my work. (It was a trial thing, to see how Gateway stacked up compared to other vendors like Dell we always used in the past.) The systems came pre-loaded with Windows NT 4.0, as we requested. Unfortunately, they had issues booting to a black screen and freezing up when powered-on. Gateway's phone support tried and tried to help, but they just didn't know much about NT, and even less about why it might have issues on that particular system. I was finally directed to take a sample system in to the local Gateway store and let their technician analyze it. This turned into a big fiasco. They swapped out all sorts of irrelevant parts (hard drive, memory, etc.). After 5 trips back there, someone finally figured out it needed a BIOS update to a brand new revision Gateway just released. Problem solved, but this should never have happened in the first place. This was a system they advertised as being "NT ready" before we ordered it.

Re:Apple, Gateway

[ncc74656]

I haven't dealt with Apple's tech support, but their warranty package has kept me from buying their hardware. The base warranty is pretty skimpy, and the outrageously priced AppleCare plan is painfully restrictive about what it covers.

FWIW, the warranties on my IIe and Imagewriter were only 90 days...so far, they've run without problems for 17 years. :-)

More than that...

[MosesJones]

First line tech support are mostly fools in call centres, so you'd expect those with the worst customer service to have the lowest opinion of their customers. Possibly the higher the training and morale level the less the customers are seen as, and treated like, idiots.

Profitability

[hooded1]

In amny ways tech support is a waste of money for the computer companies. Most people aren't very intelligent consumers. By intelligent i mean people who would pikc up a copy of consumer reports and closely analyze the the details of a brand of computers such as how good their tech support is. Instead most people will buy things based on the specs, the looks, and the price. So, for the msot part Compaq's crappy tech support doesn't hurt them, because the person who needs tech support has already paid for the product and therefore any time they spend on them represents a loss in money.

Dell is the top manufacturer of PCs, no doubt largely because of its good technical support, however the contrast in the number of sales for Dell vs Compaq doesn't correlate well with the tech support satisfaction numbers.

Re:Profitability

[alcmena]

Not true. Word of mouth is the best (or worst) advertisement that companies can get. I believe it's called the 1-10 rule, or something like that. It goes like this... If you make one customer happy he/she will go and tell one friend about how great of a company you are. If you make one customer upset, he/she will go and complain about you to ten friends.

In both cases, the friends are likely to pass the information on, so you can quickly see which tree builds faster. In short, if you screw over a customer who already bought from you, you likely just lost 10 more who might have.

Re:Profitability

[King_TJ]

No, initially, you were probably correct. But now we're entering the era where the vast majority of new computers sold are not being sold as "first systems". The customers they're getting now are mostly repeat customers, back for a second or third PC.

The average person shops primarily based on price, but also, based on past experiences. (EG. A friend of my mom's just decided to buy herself a new PC. She had an old Compaq she was very pleased with. I asked her why she liked it so well. All she talked about is the way their tech. support people always gave her assistance when she had problems using it.) She wanted a notebook this time around, and wanted to buy it locally. I pointed her towards a Toshiba, which she happily bought only after asking me if they had a toll-free number for support, if they offered a reasonably priced extended warranty, and if they were generally good about phone support.

(I knew Compaq has gone downhill on tech. support over the years - and didn't want to see her grab a Compaq notebook, only to be disappointed.)

Re:Apple?

[psyconaut]

Why do you think people buy German cars? It's partly the engineering and partly the aftersales service. (Okay, it's also partly a status thing too....) ;-)

I defected from Apple for quite a few years...but when I started doing more creative stuff again, I went back. Glad I did....they seem to really trying to give customers a solid product offering these days. However, they're also not trying to be all things to all people.

-psyco

Re:Apple?

[jlower]

Yes, you do. What other computer company creates actual 'brand loyalty' like Apple?

How accurate is this thing?

[RandomPeon]

5 percent bought a computer that was completely inoperable within the first month; another 11 percent said they had problems in the first month but the computer was usable.

This seems ridiculously high to me. 5% of computers are unusable in the first month? No explanation is give of what constitutes "unusable". Does it mean the hard drive is physically crapped out or something like "the Internet is broken again"?

Furthermore, Apple is a terrible company to include in this kind of survey. A very large percentage of their customers are Mac enthusiasts. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just that comparing an Apple customer's perception of Apple support with a Dell customer's perception of Dell support is hardly an accurate picture - the Dell customer has no particular love for the company.

Re:How accurate is this thing?

[Draoi]

[..] comparing an Apple customer's perception of Apple support with a Dell customer's perception of Dell support is hardly an accurate picture - the Dell customer has no particular love for the company.

Ask yourself the question, why not??

Re:How accurate is this thing?

[george399]

it's just that comparing an Apple customer's perception of Apple support with a Dell customer's perception of Dell support is hardly an accurate picture

Is this not the frickin' point of a customer satisfaction survey? Ask the [Apple/Dell] customer how the [Apple/Dell] service is. So yes, it would weight in Apple's favour if Apple's customers like Apple, and then have a good experience with Apple's service. I would bet Dell's rating might drop if you asked Apple customers!?

You can't blame Apple for having enthusiasts which in turn rates their customer service satisfaction higher. That's the whole point of a customer satisfaction survey.

Disclaimer: Yes, I like (certainly not love) Apple, but I also don't generally like Consumer Reports (they tend to have their head up their ass when it comes to rating products that are a little more complicated. i.e. bicycles)

Re:How accurate is this thing?

[Matthias Wiesmann]

This seems ridiculously high to me. 5% of computers are unusable in the first month? No explanation is give of what constitutes "unusable". Does it mean the hard drive is physically crapped out or something like "the Internet is broken again"?

When we bought a bunch of PCs to build a cluster here in the lab, one out of 16 did not work (I think it was the motherboard, I can't remember), while 16 is not exactly a good sampling, the failure rate was above 5%. Between hardware duds, shippement errors, installation errors and configuration problems, 5% seems quite resonable to me. While the average /. guy could probably solve those problems, the average user cannot. Also note, that "the internet is not working" is a good definition of unusable if you bought the computer to go on the internet. When rating customer satisfaction having an objective reference makes little sense.

Furthermore, Apple is a terrible company to include in this kind of survey. A very large percentage of their customers are Mac enthusiasts. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just that comparing an Apple customer's perception of Apple support with a Dell customer's perception of Dell support is hardly an accurate picture - the Dell customer has no particular love for the company.

Huh? Because Apple customers like Apple products they should be excluded of a customer satisfaction survey?

You argue that because they are Mac enthousiast they will have a better perception of Apple's tech support. Has it occured to you that maybe Mac enthousiast are enthousiastic because of the quality of Apple's tech support and that the probable reason that the Dell customer has no particular love for the company is because their products are not very satisfying...

Re:How accurate is this thing?

[47PHA60]

"Apple is a terrible company to include in this kind of survey. A very large percentage of their customers are Mac enthusiasts."

Attacking the survey methedology with a vague unsupported assertion is not really the way to prove a point.

The reason I doubt your assertion is that during the 'dark years' before Jobs return, customers were leaving the platform and making their dissatisfaction with the quality of the product and support well known.

I think that one reason Apple might rate high is that they are responsible everything on my computer: the hardware, the OS, Final Cut Pro, the iTools, the iPod, and so on. Also, their stuff no longer seems to break as often as it did 4 years ago.

Re:How accurate is this thing?

[NeoSkandranon]

Has it occured to you that maybe Mac enthousiast are enthousiastic because of the quality of Apple's tech support and that the probable reason that the Dell customer has no particular love for the company is because their products are not very satisfying...

I'll grant you the first point, But is it not also possible that being Mac enthusiasts to begin with, they might be likely to gloss over any bad experiences theyve had with tech support?
Also, Joe Sixpack has no brand loyalty to computers. If he buys a Compaq, and gets screwed by compaq somehow, next time he'll get a Dell. If Dell works out better (in tech, or price, or what have you) then next time he'll get another Dell. Or maybe he'll get a locally built machine for 500$ cheaper. who knows. point is, the majority of Dell owners are NOT wearing "Dude you're getting a Dell(tm)" Tshirts and pimping Dells to their friends, as some Mac users i've known. They simply use whatever works at the time.

Re:How accurate is this thing?

[tmark]

Huh? Because Apple customers like Apple products they should be excluded of a customer satisfaction survey?

The original point is well-taken, in that Mac users are more often than not die-hard Apple users and as such are more likely to view Apple favorably, independent of the service they receive. Such users have also likely made an active choice to buy Apple because of the company and not (say) because of the software available.

In contrast, PC users aren't usually Dell- or HP- or IBM-zealots - such users usually view PCs as clones which are interchangeable,and a far smaller percentage of PC-users are Wintel-zealots as compared to Mac-users being Apple-zealots...so if a PC-user gets lousy service or whatever from Dell, they're probably not jeopardizing their world view by saying so.

The active - and idiosyncratic - decision to buy Apple likely brings with it a cognitive dissonance that Compaq/Dell/IBM users aren't going to face.

I think it is a very similar issue to the zealotry that users of more esoteric operating systems tend to show (think BeOS, Amiga, Linux, OS/2). These users have made an active commitment to something that is not the norm, and it is this active commitment that will force them to psychologically jump through hoops to rationalize nearly every aspect of their OS, even if their OS of choice is imperfect in someway. Contrast this to Windows users, who rarely view themselves as having chosen Windows in any substantial way.

There are tons of social psychology experiments that demonstrate the cognitive dissonance effect. When zealotry comes into play, objectivity has to suffer.

Re:How accurate is this thing?

[Matthias Wiesmann]

The original point is well-taken, in that Mac users are more often than not die-hard Apple users and as such are more likely to view Apple favorably, independent of the service they receive.

Do you have any data to back this up? A lot of people have wierd ideas on mac users. I agree that the evangelists tend to make a lot of noise, but there are not exactly representative. Saying that mac users are die hard, unobjective zealots that suffer from cognitive dissonance sounds to me at best as a gross generalisation.

Most mac users I know are mostly people who know (or want to know) little on computers and want the system to just work. If they are not satisfied with something, they will say it. My mom's (yes she has a iMac) view will not shatter if she complains about stuff - as a matter of fact, she tends to complain a lot.

The few people I know who are strong mac fans tend also to be vocal in critizing Apple because they are fans.

• As they identify more with the product, they are also more genuinely disapointed when it fails.
• They have very high (unreasonable I would say) expectation on Apple products.
• Apple tends to listen to some extent to those people. I never heard (might be wrong) of Dell changing a design because of popular demand.

So while I agree that Apple's target andience is different from Dell (they cater different markets), I'm far from convinced that this crowd is so easy to satisfy for tech support, as it included a large proportion of computer illiterate people and a bunch of loud mouths that complain a lot.

Re:How accurate is this thing?

[Tackhead]

> This seems ridiculously high to me. 5% of computers are unusable in the first month? No explanation is give of what constitutes "unusable". Does it mean the hard drive is physically crapped out or something like "the Internet is broken again"?

Actually, I'd believe it.

Consider a 5% DOA rate on CPUs/heatsinks/RAM jarred loose from shipping.

As a DIY d00d, the first thing I do when I get a new box is rip open the cover, unplug/remove everything, and reseat it. The first thing I do after anything that looks like a hardware failure is remove/reseat the suspect component. And if that fails, I then start swapping components to the extent possible - try another drive and see if BIOS detects it. Swap with known good RAM. Swap with slower CPU if I have a spare CPU handy. Etc.

Problem is, for someone who buys "a computer", and especially for someone who wants "support" or a "warranty", that's not within their skill/comfort range to do, and they often don't have spare parts to swap and isolate the problem.

So from their perspective, the "computer's" "completely unusable", and has to go back to the "store" - even if it's just a 5-minute fix.

(I feel sorry for retailers and Joe Sixpack alike. I love being able to call a (reputable) vendor and say "Sorry, motherboard's DOA, 'cuz the CPU, RAM, and drives are fine in my spare board. I can either send back the entire system, or just the mobo."

The best thing about dealing with screwdriver shops and small-but-reputable vendors is that you don't have to waste half an hour on hold and another 15 minutes walking through the "What version of Windows are you running?" (irrelevant, the box won't POST, goddamnit!) script to get to the issue.)

Re:How accurate is this thing?

[Lars T.]

They simply use whatever works at the time.

Or rather, they use what doesn't work at the time, and buy from some other maker in the hope that that will work.

Re:How accurate is this thing?

[Lars T.]

Well, us Mac enthusiasts don't know how Apple customer support is, because we never needed them, everything works perfect from the start. But we always give it a 10 anyway, just to mess those reports up ;-)

Re:How accurate is this thing?

[King_TJ]

I really don't know, but I can say that I never experienced lots of tech-support happiness with Apple.

A while back, I got one of those Apple Quicktake digital cameras. It quit taking pictures... just completely died. I called Apple, trying to find out repair costs and where to take it. That was like pulling teeth! Nobody at Apple seemed to know what to do with the Quicktake. They kept trying to forward me to people in the "Apple imaging dept.", claiming they "believed that was the area that supported those devices". The guys in imaging couldn't help either, though. They said the cameras were really made by Kodak for Apple, and being a non-native Apple product - they had little to offer in the way of assistance for them. Someone gave me a number to Kodak, who in turn, refused to support the Quicktake - and sent me back to Apple.

I finally just went to a local photo store/Apple dealer, thinking that was the ideal place to take the thing. No help there either! They said they never sold the Quicktake at their store, and had no information on it. I finally gave up and threw the thing away!

Re:How accurate is this thing?

[daeley]

Furthermore, Apple is a terrible company to include in this kind of survey. A very large percentage of their customers are Mac enthusiasts.

Trust me, speaking as a Mac user and friend of Mac enthusiasts, you haven't heard *anybody* bitch and complain about Apple worse than ardent Mac enthusiasts. If Apple does anything that doesn't match what's come before (e.g. no spring-loaded folders in OS X), the enthusiast will climb to the top of the nearest mountain, put a soap box down, climb on top of that, pull out his bullhorn, and call Apple the worst names you've ever heard. All because something is different. That was the irony of the Think Different campaign: hardcore Mac users are the most reactionary, conservative folks when it comes to "their" operating system.

Having said that, I'll stop using my Mac when they pry the translucent keyboard from my cold, dead hands. ;)

Re:How accurate is this thing?

[RandomPeon]

Umm, because they sell a commodity. If I don't like what I get from Compaq or Dell, I blame them and switch. When Red Hat 7.2 was screwed up out of the box on my machine, I didn't spend days trying to fix and calling tech support. I ditched it for Mandrake. There's a large contingent of Mac (and Linux) users who don't think like this. They blame themselves. OS 9 crashes a lot not because you did anything wrong, but because it's a hulking pile of crufty crap. No real memory protection, suprise, it crashes a lot.

Apple has convinced people that they're "different" and that if you want to be "different" and "special" you'll buy their machines. It's about advertising, not about products. "Different" in this case means proprietary, expensive, unupgradeable hardware, software, and protocols to an outside observer. For a very long time it meant one of the worst operating systems ever brought to market but it had prettier widgets combined with obscene amounts of sugar-coating. WTF does "rebuild the desktop" actually mean? I've never seen a company that treats its customers like total morons get so much adoration.

Re:How accurate is this thing?

[alexburke]

Ask yourself the question, why not??

You should have kept reading...

Not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just that comparing an Apple customer's perception of Apple support with a Dell customer's perception of Dell support is hardly an accurate picture - the Dell customer has no particular love for the company.

This is true indeed. I don't know if it's grounds to exclude Apple from such a survey, but the poster did have a point...

Dell v. Gateway

[drunkmonk]

I work at a university and we have a huge computer contract with Dell, so pretty much every PC we have comes from them. We don't have much trouble with them, and when we do, the service has been excellent. Of course, we don't call the home user line, either, but if you're a corporate user I'd recommend them wholeheartedly.

Now, as for Gateway... when I was in high school, I worked for a company that had an outsourced tech support contract with Gateway. I was on hand when Windows 98 rolled out and all the poor Windows 95 users screwed things up when upgrading... I can honestly say that they hired anyone that could effectively grip a mouse. It was sad, but maybe things have changed.

Re:Dell v. Gateway

[DeadMeat (TM)]

I can honestly say that they hired anyone that could effectively grip a mouse. It was sad, but maybe things have changed.

A couple of months ago, I was hired by a local company as a network consultant. They originally called Gateway and asked for a Gateway-recommended network guy, but they changed their minds once they called the guy Gateway recommended and he was literally too stoned to remember what day it was.

--- Dell Tech

[Rudy Rodarte]

Duse, I work for dell, so I know first hand what us guys go through. Here are some of my favorite tales: A guy is mad because his region 4 DVD player will not play the Playboy DVDs he bought A guy tells me he will make my life hell and come after me because I would not give him a bios password for a portable. A lady blames me for having to reinstall her OS(She had every P2P program on earth, along with every spyware you can think of, plus a virus or 2) A guy asked me how to remove a picture from the desktop before his parents got home and how to remove that picture from the list of backgrounds. A lady that said she would always get porno pop ups. Only her and her husband use the system. Good times!

Re:--- Dell Tech

[alen]

That's awesome. I really can't understand how someone can take it in customer support. I'll join the military again and jump out of airplanes before I take any customer support job.

Re:--- Dell Tech

[DrVxD]

> jump out of airplanes before I take any customer support job.
Sounds like a good deal to me (some of us like jumping out of perfectly good aeroplanes)

Re:--- Dell Tech

[DrVxD]

What does this have to do with the fact that I enjoy skydiving?

Re:--- Dell Tech

[scrytch]

Gee wiz. In all of these cases, you deal with people who either do or do not follow directions, do or do not get very aggrieved, but at the end of the day, their problem was an episode, and they may never even call again. Dealing with stupid people all day is a drag, but the real killers come from politics.

Try internal tech support for a company that accidentally drops a thousand user accounts, then decides to let every one of them call the helpdesk when they discover that their account is no longer there, and that the service level agreement gives the sysadmins three days to sit with their thumbs up their asses, you get no access to fix the problem, but have to tell people that everything is okay, and that we'll take care of it. Lie lie lie, all the live long day. I ended up quitting over having to lie all the time. Went to work for a company that stated in its IT support SLA "if we don't have root on it, we don't support it" and actually stood by it. It sucks being a human speedbump. Even someone bagging groceries gets honest work done.

Re:--- Dell Tech

[Lars T.]

At the Veterans Club.

I used to be a big Dell fan until...

[BlackMesaResearchFac]

...I had to use their customer support.

I've had two Dell computers without problem. The PCs worked fine for the duration of their life with me(2-3 years) and all was good.

This past winter I was going to buy another one only I had a complete brain fart about the limit on my card since I had never used it to make a purchase over $100 online.

So they send me an e-mail back saying the bank denied my purchase but did not give them a reason and I was to call Dell back, yadda yadda. So after figuring out about the limit from my card company I call Dell back and explain. I called the number they told me to call in the e-mail but after waiting 20 minutes to talk to them they had to rout me through to someone else because it wasn't the right department. So I wait another 20 minutes and I explain the problem to the next person...oh wait, it's not their department so they route me some place else. So I wait another 20 minutes and I explain the problem to the next person...oh wait, it's not their department so they route me some place else. Only this time my connection is disconnected...

I was so irritated I just forgot about the entire thing. In 2 days they had to release my order (as said in the e-mail) and I never did get a Dell. I built my own computer (thank goodness).

This could have all been avoided had I not bought the computer on the last day of a significant sale (free shipping -$90 plus a free upgrade or two, so I was saving quite a bit). Because of that I couldn't just cancel the order and configure and buy again.

In any event, that entire ordeal soured me to Dell.

After a great experience building my own computer months later, I'd never go back unless perhaps I ever bought a laptop.

Re:I used to be a big Dell fan until...

[alen]

It wasn't entirely Dell's fault. All online companies use fraud detection software. But Dell didn't handle it very well.

Re:I used to be a big Dell fan until...

[inbox]

What one needs to be careful about is using a single (or even several) anecdotal experience(s) to judge the quality of anything, including a company's customer service or related aspects of the business.

Replace "Dell" in your story with "Sony" and you've got the next guy's experience. Do it again with "Gateway" and so on.

In addition, for each story you have like this, there is a story about how a phone call to Dell resulted in a replacement hard drive showing up a mere 2 hours later, no hassle, no problem.

The issue is, after surveying users and aggregating the statistics, etc... where do the companies rank? Dell doesn't rank bad because of one person's experience and Apple doesn't rank well because of one person's experience.

Your experience was unfortunate and I know you are not doing this, but I wouldn't jump from your situation to "everyone who buys a computer from Dell will experience a similar hassle."

Re:How can they rate ?!

[onion2k]

PC == Personal Computer.

Don't get confused about Windows, Intel, and IBM Compatibles.

Bad numbers

[Craig Maloney]

I think part of the reason you have such high numbers for Apple is because they have control over the entire machine. They make the hardware, they make the software, and they certify the parts that hook up to their hardware. PC manufactureres don't have that luxury. Since all of these manufacturers bundle Windows with their machines, they also become liable to answer every single Windows question, and support every Windows version (2000, XP, 98/Me, etc.) Of course Apple is going to score higher numbers than the PC manufacturers, they know the whole damn thing. If Microsoft didn't put the burden of OS support on the manufacturers, you'd probably see higher numbers for the hardware manufacturers, and some really funky numbers for Microsoft.

Yes, support is going down the tubes, and companies are pay lipservice to quality of support, while trying to get people off the phone as quickly as possible, but I think they deserve some credit for having to support something they weren't even involved with (the OS).

Re:Bad numbers

[klieber]

I think part of the reason you have such high numbers for Apple is because they have control over the entire machine. They make the hardware, they make the software, and they certify the parts that hook up to their hardware. PC manufactureres don't have that luxury.

That's simply not true. Apple does not design or build the RAM, CPU, CD-ROM, DVD, video card or any other major peripheral in the system. Apple does design their own mobo, granted. But so does Dell, Compaq and most other large PC manufacturers. It's only the whitebox screwdriver shops that use off-the-shelf parts. Plus, Dell goes through the same hardware certification process that Apple does to ensure a particular device will work as expected in their computer.

Re:Bad numbers

[Craig Maloney]

Not necessarily, I'm saying that Apple has more control over their software and hardware than most manfacturers are afforded using Windows (or Linux machines for that matter).

Your support can still suck even with full control. Sun, HP/Compaq/Digital, and SGI also provide the OS with their hardware, and have varying degrees of support. Selling the OS as part of your hardware isn't a magic bullet, but it allows you as a manufacturer to keep control over the whole process rather than support a hodge-podge system.

Re:Bad numbers

[Craig Maloney]

You missed the point. The point isn't that Apple doesn't use off the shelf parts like every other manufacturer, rather they have control over the operating system, where PC manufacturers do not. That adds to the burden on the support technician, who not only has to understand the quirks of the hardware they design, but also the quirks of an operating system they had little input on.

Scoring done like this isn't really accurate.

[yeoua]

It may sound accurate to those who are the ones getting the support, but it may not sound accurate to the ones giving the tech support.

How many times would those low scores be attributed to the consumer not having a clue, blowing up, and then thinking to him/her self that the entire tech support thing was evil?

Of course, there will be times where the reverse is true, when tech support will really be the ones who screw up, but being the tech support is their job.

They can actually get fired... the consumer can't get fired.

Re:Scoring done like this isn't really accurate.

[DrVxD]

> How many times would those low scores be attributed to the consumer not having a clue

The consumer shouldn't be expected to have a clue. Or would you rather computers remained niche items owned only by the technological elite?

Re:Tech support

[Alan Partridge]

Amen, Apple most probably rate the best because the range of options in their machines is relatively small - but this has always been an Apple benefit, and it's the reason why services like Versiontracker work so well for the Mac - you can get your head around the size of the problem.

what about sony

[bummpyjojo]

what about sony? they didnt make any of the lists. but they did make anouther report saying there notebook support was poor ( above gateway hp and compaq) anyone actually register with consumer reports to get updated info? please share.

Re:what about sony

[DrVxD]

In my experience, Sony's aftersales service on everything is shockingly poor. It's a shame, since they have some really great products. Although I never fail to be amazed by their just-out-of-warranty engineering. I have a Vaio F809K - the battery died when it was a week (actually 6 days) out of warranty. Most manufacturers would have replaced it either FOC or at a discout, just out of goodwill. Sony wanted full retail. I had a similar experience with a MiniDisc player (that was 3 weeks out of warranty).
I dropped the stylus of my Clie which snapped the tip. I called Sony, and was told a replacement would be UK£8 (that's about US$12 - for a Palm stylus!). Since I had no option but to buy it from them, I ordered one and was told it would be delivered by courier next day (probably accounts, at lease it part, for the rediculous price). Two weeks later, I arrive home and find a soggy (it was raining) cardboard box on the doorstep - delivered by mail.
The only GOOD story I have about Sony is my PS2 - it died a week before the warranty expired, so I took it back to the record store that supplied it - and they replaced it, no questions asked. But I do spend a lot of money in there.

So after the last 12 months experience, I doubt I'll be buying any more Sony products. Which, as I said before, is a shame, since they have some damn fine toys out there.

Slashdot readers opinion not representative

[YeeHaW_Jelte]

I don't think we slashdot readers can say much about the quality of customer service for a simple reason: the average slashdot reader probably has a larger understanding of computers than the average customer service employee.
Point in case: I mailed compaq a few weeks ago, after I installed SuSE 8.0, because my computer was freezing, and the caps and scroll lock lights were blinking when this happened. I hoped the people at compaq could tell me if this was a diagnostic code.
The support was pretty good; I got a response to my email in less than 15 minutes. I find that excellent. However, the poor guy at the support centre couldn't get a grip on what I was saying, because he consequently underestimated my knowledge of computers. His first response was to make me use the quick restore cd's, which would erase my hard disk and repartition it and reinstall the win98 se that originally came with the computer.
My point is that if you're a professional yourself, your either better than the support guy or the support guy is not going to take you serious enough. Either way you won't be helped properly. That's why slashdot readers can't really have a representative opinion on help desks; help desks are aimed at nitwits (as far as their computer use goes anyhow).

Re:Slashdot readers opinion not representative

[BoBaBrain]

I don't think we slashdot readers can say much about the quality of customer service for a simple reason: the average slashdot reader probably has a larger understanding of computers than the average customer service employee.

I whole heartily disagree. Perhaps the "average slashdot reader" has a larger understanding of computers than the average customer caller does.
Remember, the customer service employee's job is not to wow you with his/her knowledge, but to solve most of the problems that come in. Truth be told, most of the problems *are* of the mind-numbingly simple variety.

It may be a stand-up comedy cliché, but the best way to annoy someone is to explain to him or her something they already know. Doubly so for us geek types.

Unfortunately, for these reasons, techie-egos and customer service protocol do not mix well.

Re:Slashdot readers opinion not representative

[Kredal]

Shame on them for selling you a 6MB hard drive with any system that has a CD rom drive. (:

Good ones...

[Corporate Troll]

They don't remember the good ones? That's sad.

A few years ago a Jaz disk would eject immediately after inserting it in the drive and I called Iomega. After going trough the automated stuff (push # for ...), I finally got a live person on the line.
After the usual (cables, drivers, etc....) stuff she exactly told me what to do to make it stay in there (easy: keep your hand the disk, until it snaps, it never had the problem after that occurence). She even was very patient with me because I had to walk to the computer each time to do something because the phone and computer were in different rooms. After being helped, I thanked her for her friendly and useful help, and she actually sounded astonished anyone would thank her for the help.
And now you say they don't remember the good calls? *snif* (Oh, and she had one kind of sexy voice with a slight Irish accent)

Re:Good ones...

[sahala]

(Oh, and she had one kind of sexy voice with a slight Irish accent)

Not to over-generalize, but I do notice that women tech support tend to handle "bad calls" a lot better than men. They're less likely to scoff and think customers are idiots. I'm sure you all can think of a variety of reasons why this is the case.

Of course this isn't a hard rule...

Re:Good ones...

[Dolly_Llama]

I make it habit to compliment good service wherever I receive it. When you find a person who is actually nice and personable, make sure to take their name down. Then write a letter to their supervisor. Not many people actually do this, so a single letter mentioning superior performance can make a difference on their next review.

This isn't just for phone service. For instance, I just replaced my battery at Sears (at Vallco in Cupertino). A guy named Frank provided superior service and proved himself an all around decent human being. I wrote a letter to the manager and would recommend anyone to him and to that Sears.

Re:Good ones...

[garyrich]

"Not to over-generalize, but I do notice that women tech support tend to handle "bad calls" a lot better than men."

AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! No... When I was a manager for tech support reps (the horror...) the worst from a customer dissatisfaction index were women. On average you may have a point but the worst of the worst were female. Most trouble was one with an upper crusty Jamaican accent that made her sound snotty to americans even when she was trying to be nice. Add to that the fact that she really was a snotty bitch most of the time. I winced everytime she picked up a call, but she was unfirable for political reasons.

My Mom's Mac

[standards]

My Mom was proactive and bought a Mac a few months ago. She had problems with connecting to the Internet.

Since I know little about the Mac and how it accomplishes such things, and since I live about 2500 miles away from here, I said "Um, Sorry Mom, call Apple".

And so she did. And to my amazement, they solved her problem. Not only that, but she actually emailed her good experiences to me within a couple hours.

I have to admit this is the only good tech support experience I've heard from a PC company. Years ago, when I had a PC from another well known company, the tech support guys made me jump through 1000 hoops before they'd admit to a problem that could be fixed with a BIOS upgrade.

Apple didn't make my Mom do that!

Re:My Mom's Mac

[Pope]

My one and only tech support call was to Power Computing, one time makers of Mac clones. The hard drive was writing really slowly and often failing to boot. One quick call, and they FedEx shipped me a new Seagate AV-rated SCSI drive to replace the failing Micropolis one. I then shipped the old drive back to them. Bang, 3 days turnaround, and that Seagate is stil trucking strong 5 years later!

Re:Who is doing the support.

[Draoi]

Is it an apple employee trained to do tech support or an external support employee trained to support apple?

[OBDisclaimer: I work for Apple, in fact the Euro support centre is next-door but right now I'm speaking just for myself.]

Yes, Apple have full-time, trained employees working on tech support. They do in both the US support site (Sacramento, CA) and in Europe (Cork, Ireland).

By the way, every new Mac sold also contains a diagnostic CD. The user can simply insert it, boot in 5 seconds and get a result back for tech support without even needing a supporting OS!! Kewl or wha' ....

Re:For the price you pay for a Mac

[rampant mac]

Hyundai has one of the best warranties for a automobile manufacturer, yet they're one of the cheapest cars you can buy...

Price shouldn't make a difference.

Dell Support Services

[Your_Mom]

In my experience, Dell is top notch in Tech support services. I find their supprt staff clueful (mostly, you still get the occasional person who reads off the screen) and not hesitant to send out a replacement part. Opposed to Gateway where its like pulling teeth trying to convince them that you need a replacement part, or Toshiba who will not replace a hard drive until it has 20% bad sectors (HDD was 1-2 years old and was rapidly failing, it had a 3 year service agreement).

Bottom Line: (IMHO) Dell rocks, Gateway Sucks and don't use Toshiba unless you like bending over.

Some better statistics.

[Anonymous Coward]

Users:
98% of all users believe technical support representatives can read their minds.
45% of all users do not listen.

Support:
75% of all technical support representatives don't want to help you for good reason.
90% of all technical support representatives with over 1 year of service are there for the money and don't care in the least.

Re:Some better statistics.

[DrVxD]

76.3% of all statistics are invented on the spot

Re:Some better statistics.

[DrVxD]

> I thought it was 85.7%
That figure is only quoted by 12.8% of sources...

Re:Apple?

[psyconaut]

No, none of those companies have anything like the brand that Apple have.

Microsoft has similar brand awareness, so do Coca Cola and Pepsi. But only the cola companies can claim brand loyalty as strong as Apple.

There's been several papers written on Apple's brand loyalty ("cult of Macintosh"). Go read one....it's a fascinating socio-techno phenomenon.

-psyco

Apple Tech Support is really good

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Recently, I had a very subtle problem with airport on my pismo g3. Not one but two apple support people helped me with the problem. They were courteous and patient.

And yes, it was not an obvious problem by a long shot, dealing with how an update handed obsolete names of some computers on the network. They were very competent troubleshooters and they finally solved the problem.

Since I make a point of complaining when service is bad, I thought it only fair to send an email to them praising the service. I received a kind, personal, reply from the tech support supervisor.

Apple's got my business for as long as they like.

More kudos to Apple ... anyone with bad stories?

[jolshefsky]

I dare ye to compare this to any other company's support story: I bought a PowerBook G3 in 2000. After a couple months the hard drive started going bad (heavy clicking, and not to do with what I was downloading...) Anyway, I thought I could expedite things by having them send me a new hard drive. No dice--I'd have to send the whole laptop back to Apple. Great, I thought.

On Monday afternoon I called them and they said they'd send me an overnight shipping package.

Tuesday, mid-day, an Airborne Express box was sitting on my porch. I packed the machine and brought it to the Airborne office for shipping.

Wednesday, I check the website and my machine arrived in the morning, has been fixed and is being shipped out in the afternoon.

Thursday, mid-day, an Airborne Express box is on my porch with my laptop with a new hard drive.

Time from problem discovery to problem resolution: 70 hours. Cost to me: $0. (Well, I did miss out on the $200 rebate offer when I bought it by one friggin' day ... darn you Apple--why won't you be nice and give it to me anyway? why? Oh ... sorry ... )

Apple had better have the best support...

[Junior J. Junior III]

Who else are you going to go to if you can't get your Mac working?

Seriously, it shouldn't be too hard for them to provide damn good support considering that they have complete control over the specifications of the hardware *and* the operating system.

You can't run into the sort of situation where Compaq blames Microsoft, Microsoft says it's Mitsumi's fault, and Mitsumi blames Compaq, and you're a ping pong ball going back and forth between everyone. With Apple, the buck stops in exactly one place (unless you're dealing with a 3rd party application).

Re:Dell buys adds = Dell gets press

[5KVGhost]

I know you're talking about the News.com article. But, just to clarify, the article is based on the Consumer Reports survey. Consumer Reports doesn't take advertising to avoid the kind of potential conflicts you're talking about.

Re:Why not?

[jmu1]

Then again, it could be that Apple hardware tends to not be made from tinfoil and rubber bands. No, I don't own any Apple hardware, however I have been building PCs for ten years and run a lab of around three hundred machines, both Apple and PC. It is more along the lines of good experience versus bad experience. I'll never buy a GM made vehicle again... they are total crap and terrible to work on... then again, Ford makes a moving death trap out of most of their vehicles. So, I'll pay more and get a VW.

I love Dell, but...

[Astrorunner]

I swear, they can be complete idiots sometimes.

We purchased a dozen or so LCD monitors from Dell, to go with some of our existing, but still new ( 1 year old ) Dell desktops. One of them had two horizontal lines running through the screen, at about 1/3 and 2/3 of the way down.

This line was present both when it was hooked up to the computer, and during the self test when powered on by itself.

The guy on the phone kept insisting that I swap out the video card, just to be sure. Obviously, if it happens when its not even connected to the system, its not a problem with the system.

Another time, fairly recently, I called up to get a replacement fan for the back of the cpu, as it had been whining incessantly (much like I'm doing now).

"How did you determine the problem is with the fan?"

"Uh, I used my ear."

I guess I really can't fault them -- it's apparent they're working off scripts and trouble shooting diagrams. Always get my replacement parts the next day though. Best thing about Dell :)

It was an online poll

[JohnTheFisherman]

You do the math.

I've never ever ever ever ever seen links in enthusiast message boards or mailing lists telling people to go to some website and vote for their favorite computer/band/whatever either, but I'm sure this particular poll is 100% accurate. ;-)

Apple's support is good, but...

[Arkham]

I had an odd failure on my iBook. Somehow I managed to snap off the male plug end of the battery charger INSIDE the female power connector of the iBook. The 'book was under warranty, but past the 90 days of free phone support.

This was obviously a hardware problem, but the tech was not able to even discuss it with me without a credit card number. He told me that if it was a hardware problem I would not be charged, but if it were a software problem I would.

I explained that there was no way that it could be a software problem since it was a physical plug not going into a physical hole because a physical piece broke off.

Long story short, I had to give my card number (was not charged), they sent me an Airborne box, which I filled with my iBook and gave back to the guy who was dropping it off. They had to wait for a part so it took a week to get it back, but all is well with it now.

I just thought it was funny that even Apple has some strange policies in their tech support department.

Tech Support

[Quill_28]

You know why tech support sucks?

Because people will not pay for it. Margins are too low for companies to give good tech support. Consumers are only looking at prices/features not how good their tech support is. Who here is going to pay an extra $100 to $200 a year just for good tech support? Not many. Businesses are different, but most consumers are not going to pay the money to get good tech support.

Dell asked for it

[gosand]

Dell is just asking for customer service nightmares when they market their PCs the way they do. They want to be the largest supplier of complex machines, running a confusing and unstable operating system, to a population of people where computer literacy is low? Everyone gets a Dell! Good luck.

I don't know about these numbers, and what they really reflect. They reflect satisfaction, and hopefully just with the service and not the consumers frustration with computers in general, which could easily creep into the customer's feelings. It almost seems like it should be broken out into the customer's experience with computers, because that can determine how a "problem" is perceived. Both of these descriptions could or could not be describing the same problem:
1. My NIC is not working. The light doesn't light, and I am using DHCP to get an IP. I have another PC on my network configured the same way and it doesn't have any problem. I have even tried a known working cable.

2. The internet is broken.

Of course, one problem is easy to work with, the other one could be a nightmare. I'll bet Dell gets a lot of #2.

Choose your support wisely...

[d_force]

When you purchase a system from one of these large companies, you generally have options for tech support.. they company may not list it, but they're there.

For example, when I purchased my Dell system, I purchased it through my university (works if you buy through your business too), and as such, I was given the option of having 5yr premium tech support (5yr full, 24/7).. I can't remember what the exact service agreement stated, but at the time, Dell used a 3rd party company for its high-end support contracts named "Wang" (.. there's probably more to that name, but that's all i can remember right now).

Bottom line: If I had any problem whatsoever (or even *think* I was having a prob w/ the system), I'd call up the 800 number -- forwarding me to the Tier 3 tech support guy -- and say "look, component X has just failed, I want a replacement here in 24 hrs." Sure enough, the part would arrive; I'd send to defective part back to them in the same box -- no cost to me.

Lesson: Don't just roll over and save the extra $25 if you're concerned about support to begin with... Oh, and buying it through a large organization helps. ;)

The headline tells it all...

[MarvinMouse]

Customers Unhappy with PC Support

And this is new... how?

Here's some more good headlines for CNet

Grass is coloured Green
Sky is blue
Microsoft earns another billion dollars
CNet runs out of good stories

(I have been on computers since 1987, customers have always been unhappy with customer support.)

Consumer vs. Business

[kyoko21]

Though my subject is consumer vs. business, it is in regards to the type of support line you get thrown into. I have a Gateway at home, and I bought this machine back in december of 98, right when the dual 450's mother boards started shipping. I had purchased this box but, it was considered a business line workstation. Plus, it came with 3 years warranty. I have had to call them up twice regarding my SCSI CDROM dying on me. (I don't think the plextor scsi cdrom i have likes the 80min cdrs...i'm digressing) Both times, that I have called, the support has always been excellent, and the staff was highly technical (and they were females, too...kudos!) None, the less, I always explained to them what was going on, and they have never given me much trouble. They have sent me two replacement drives, and this last one is still working. (Whew!)

I think perhaps that the article is decent, but it does not paint a clear picture. Perhaps, the various vendors of computers have separate groups of customer support, and i would not be surprised if the ones for the business side of things were much more technical than the consumer side. For example, Compaq has always made great business class machines and servers. But I wouldn't put my money in their consumer side products... that's just me though.

Re:For the price you pay for a Mac

[DrVxD]

> Hyundai has one of the best warranties for a automobile manufacturer,
And my experience is that Mitsubishi has the worst. It looks good when you read it, but wait until you try and make a claim...

Bad users vs. Bad Tech Support

[oneiros27]

A good tech support person can handle bad users. Yes, sometimes you have to put them on hold for a while 'till they calm down some, but there's normally other tricks that you can use to make sure you don't make things worse.

For instance, making comments about user's sexual encounters when you're working in the bible belt is just right out. [but well, I've seen it done].

NEVER talk down to the customer. I mean, even if it's someone that 500 people have called with before, it's a new problem TO THEM. Yes, you can give them the answer and hang up on them, but if you say 'I just had someone call in with this a few minutes ago-- Why don't you try ...' it comes off as more personal, you tell the person that they're not the only one having this problem [ie, they're not an idiot], etc.

Finding people with the right personality for doing helpdesk is normally harder than finding someone who knows the technical information. And well, if you don't have good management, they don't pull people as they're getting burned out, and it makes things harder on everyone. [Getting a reputation as having bad service because of one dumbass pisses you off, and if the customer had last talked to that dumbass, they're more likely to be beligerant when calling you, which can also piss you off, overall in driving down the quality of service which you give, etc.]

Just because the customer doesn't know the answer doesn't mean they're an idiot. They could be a plumber, auto mechanic, doctor, or someone else with specialized knowledge that differed from yours. Personally, if I were going in to get my car fixed, I care about if they know my model of car, I couldn't care less if they knew how to plug in a computer, much less use one. I'm not going to hold it against my dental hygenist that she accidentally infected her system with a virus, but I would be annoyed if she didn't do her job.

That's not to say that there aren't rude people out there who will always get bad service. I had someone call me up when I worked at my university's helpdesk in 1994, and she wanted to know what her monitor's resolution was. [Mind you, we were software support for the computer labs, but our department was "Technical Assistance". After I tried to explain to her that she needed to talk to whomever sold her the computer, she said something to the equivalent of 'I called Technical Assistance, and this is a technical question, so I expect a f**king answer'. I passed her along to my manager, as well, it well, that's what managers are for.

Re:Apple?

[DrVxD]

> What other computer company creates actual 'brand loyalty' like Apple?
Commodore, Atari?

Re:Why not?

[swb]

We have about 500 people in our company and roll all our desktops every 3 years. Since I've worked here 9 years, I've seen nearly three complete waves of desktops (and tail end of a previous one), or about 1500 machines. We bought a lot of Digital PCs, and when they became unavailable it was a carnival of Compaqs, HPs, Dells and then the last wave was all Dells. Macs are now all G3/G4.

Then again, it could be that Apple hardware tends to not be made from tinfoil and rubber bands.

Total rubbish from my experience. I found Macs to be overall more plasticky and less reliably manufactured than the PCs. We had countless problems with many series of Macs, including many people now working on rev 1 G3s who bitch about hardware bugs in the firewire ports. Then there was the recent powerbook powersupply problem and waves of problems with PB 520s (techs that would repair them would always bring extra parts because the ribbon cables would disintegrate). The G3/G4 lines have been an improvement, but look at the wasteland of problems with many Apples powerbooks that seem to continue to today.

Of course we've had DOA PCs, PCs that had problems, PCs with icky case designs (all of the classic Pentium DECs), but never the patterns of problems with specific vendors or models that we had with Macs. They were unsexy and boring, but they generally worked. I've seen but never worked with much (because we didn't buy them) some pretty bad low-end PCs, but that was really olden-days 386/486 stuff -- bad cases, mobos with brand X parallel and serial port cards, and poor assembly.

From a broad design and OS integration perspective, Apple has an advantage over PCs because of the single source nature of their products, but I don't think that this has meant a superior manufactured product in the field. Low unit numbers? Problems resulting from rapid design changes, parts source changes? Just bad QC? Who knows.

Compaq was doing something similar to me

[kiwimate]

There was a batch of Deskpros which had faulty video cards. They would work fine when new, but over time the BIOS would leak power until one day you switched on and, well, it didn't switch on. You got the beep sequence informing you, "Dude, you're getting no video!". Once that happened, you were out of luck and had to RMA the card. Eventually they came out with a "patch" -- if you can consider a small Windows program which bleeps the BIOS every 24 hours to refresh the video card information a legitimate patch -- but it was useless if your card had already died.

I had a client who'd bought a batch of 70 or so and was rolling them out in lots of five at a time. Hence, every few weeks, we'd have to call Compaq and RMA the video card. Well, naturally, we had to go through the diagnostics. Even though this was a well-known and documented issue, and even though the beep sequence said exactly what was happening, and even though you would tell Compaq you'd gone through the diagnostics, you had to do it while the Compaq tech was on the line.

So eventually I figured out how to do this.

Compaq tech: "Okay, switch out the video card with a known good card and check it boots up with that one, then replace the original and see if you still have the same problem."

Me: wait for 15 seconds doing nothing, then, "Okay, done that. The other card worked fine, but I still have the same problem with the original."

Compaq tech: "Gosh, that was quick."

Me: "Yes, well, I'm, err, used to doing this by now."

Compaq tech: "Okay. Well then...um, let's reset the motherboard BIOS by..."

Me: "...switching over Jumper A17, powering up for 20 seconds, then turning it off and switching back, yeah, I know. Hang on a minute."

Sit for another 30 seconds doing nothing.

"Okay, done that, same problem."

Compaq tech: "Wow, you're really quick on this stuff!"

Me: "Yeah, well, I play the piano, I have good dexterity."

Compaq tech: "Oh..."

Quite efficient, I think: if you just pretend to do what they're asking instead of actually doing it, it goes much more quickly. This is good, right? You cut down on the call time, save the client time and money, and don't tie up the Compaq tech line either, so they're getting better call times -- yay, everyone wins!

You just had to make sure you paused long enough to make it sound plausible. No good coming back after five seconds claiming to have replaced the video card, booted up into Windows, shut down, and switched in the original video card, as well as having done a complete NT installation on the side. But there was one tech who I spoke with quite often, and he soon figured out what was going on. Fortunately, he also figured out I had at least half a clue, and if he played along it'd cut down his call times.

They have to go through the charade, poor buggers; almost feel sorry for them sometimes.

Re:Compaq was doing something similar to me

[rob colonna]

"if you just pretend to do what they're asking instead of actually doing it, it goes much more quickly. "

Well, it sounds as if you know what you're doing, but what about those who don't? There are a lot of people who call tech support who want a quick, easy fix, that do just what you describe; pretend to do something, lie and say it didn't work, and then call back (usually in 10 minutes, especially when the procedure you gave them should take 30.). Why? What good does that do them? Well, in my case, it usually means they want me to fix their files, or they want an excuse to complain. In the case of hardware support, i can only assume it's the latter, or that they are intimidated.

Snarky comments and the continuing stereotype of tech support people as minimum-wage or ignorant really makes our job tougher, needlessly. Sure, the stereotype is right in some places. But what about the legions of knowledgeable support staff who can no longer do their job, because the customers on the other end are sometimes preconditioned to assume that they will get no help, and just biding time until they can escalate the call to a manager.

We cannot help those who do not wish to be helped.

Re:Compaq was doing something similar to me

[kiwimate]

I know, and I agree with pretty much everything you've written. I have been on both ends of tech support for several years now, and I've certainly had the clients who ask me for an answer and tell me I'm wrong when I give it to them, the clients who tell me they've done something when it's blatantly obvious they haven't, the clients who tell me they got an error message but clicked Ignore and everything seemed to be okay but it doesn't work and no, of course they didn't write down the error message, why would they -- get the picture? I've been there, done that.

My current position has me working as a consultant in a very high-end specialized niche market, which means I often must do phone-line tech support because it's frankly very difficult to find tech support in this market. I've also been at the opposite end: where I've installed highly-specialized software that I've never seen before, ended up having to call tech support two weeks into the project, have an engineer tell me how to fix the problem, and been compelled to explain to him why his suggestion will result in data loss when it becomes apparent that my two weeks' experience in the product and ability to actually read the manual trumps his four weeks' training period and two months' experience on the front lines. And that, my friend, is more a sad indictment on the quality of orientation and training programs that most companies provide for their tech support engineers than on the capabilities of the technicians who may well be just as frustrated as me.

My post was written tongue-in-cheek, and was about a specific scenario where the precise problem was well known, there was a simple procedure to confirm it was indeed that problem, and I was frequently talking to a technician who felt the same as me but was compelled to run the script anyway. It's about the silly policies of the companies, and it's about the frustration that all techs feel when we get stuck in these loops. We're notoriously impatient, and we disdain those of inferior capabilities.

Hey -- it's Friday. I hope you're not working the weekend shift, but at the very least you've apparently got a paying job and you're able to read Slashdot and make some posts, so you've got it easier than some poor blighters. There's always a bright side somewhere.

Dude, you're gettin' Dell tech support

[blinkylights]

People who expect to mail-order a home PC from one of the big vendors, then get decent tech support are like people who order a Big Mac, and expect to get an attractive, witty wait-person who comes to their table, remembers their name and can suggest a good merlot to go with that. It's just not going to happen.

Back in the day, I paid my tech support dues at an ISP at around the time that a lot of people were getting interested in the Internet. Most people had Win3.1 and 14.4 modems, and most of them knew approximately diddly about what an ISP was or what their monthly fees were paying for. ("Modem? What's that? Nobody told me I had to buy a whatever-you-call-it... I want my money back!"). We tried to help EVERYBODY who called, whether it was a simple password change, or the dreaded "I just installed Win95, now I can't get connected" call. If the call took 2 hrs, it took 2 hrs, and if we couldn't help them on the first call, we would call them back later with some kind of answer.

The result was that when this ISP I worked for lowered the monthly fee from $35 to $25/mo (for dial-up, yeah you read that right), our regular customers complained (!) because they were worried that we were going to turn into just another one of those cheap ISP's with crappy tech support. After all, they knew perfectly well that if they wanted bad service, they could use one of those 3.5" AOL floppies they got in the mail every week and pay less.

Point is, support is expensive. HP, Dell, et al, just can't sell you a $500 PC, then teach you how to use it for free. You ought to be able to get someone on the phone when you get your new Dell home and the HD won't spin up, but people call tech support indignantly resolute in their belief that their $500 has earned them the right to expect Dell to teach them how to create a desktop shortcut... which means that legitimate support needs just have to wait.

When people ask me whether they should get a Dell or a Compaq or whatever, I tell them that there are several reputable, LOCAL shops that can put together a PC for them and support it. It costs more, but as always, you get what you pay for.

Consumer Reports

[speleo]

Ah, yes, Consumer Reports. Quite the oracle of knowledge on computers. For example, in their latest issue they thought the iMac was "annoying" because it didn't come with a built-in floppy drive. What in the world would they do with a floppy drive, anyway? Oh, and Macs are too expensive, too. I like how they thought the "control buttons" on the Apple Studio Display were hard to use. I suppose that's true, especially since it doesn't have any--it's software controlled.

But in the same issue they think the Chevy Avalanche is a better "truck" then the base model Ford and Dodge pickups they tested it against. Of course, this time the nearly $8k price difference didn't seem to bother them much...

PC Tech support call (almost true story)

[MrNovember]

User: 5
User: 3
User: #
User: 9
User: 9
User: 4
User: 0

Tech Support: All technicians are busy. We value your business. Please continue to wait. ...20 minutes later...

Tech Support: Hello, how can I help you?

User: About a minute after booting up, my computer freezes with a blinking cursor in the corner.

Tech Support: Sir, can you check your power cord? Is it plugged into the wall?

User: Yes, as I said, when I turn it on it freezes up.

Tech Support: Is your computer turned on?

User: Yes.

Tech Support: Is your monitor plugged into both the wall and your computer?

User: Of course.

Tech Support: Is your monitor turned on?

User: Yes yes. That's not the problem.

Tech Support: I see. Do you have your support CD?

User: Yes.

Tech Support: Ok, insert your support CD and press the reset button.

User: Ok.

Tech Support: You should see our logo and several choices.

User: Alright there they are.

Tech Support: Press the one called Reformat and Reinstall Operating System.

User: Uhh...Won't that remove all of my stuff? I mean can't you help me figure the problem out?

Tech Support: Your problem can't be solved without reinitializing your system.

User: But it starts up ok and works for a while.

Tech Support: Sir, can you check your power cord? Is it plugged into the wall?

Call me back!

[Anonymous Coward]

The best thing I loved about Apple's Customer Service, is that when I called, the lady asked me my name and then asked for my phone number so she could call me back just in case we got disconnected. Do you believe that? I can't remember the number of times that I've been disconnected on Customer Service lines, but for once someone got it right.

If they disconnect you, then they should call you back.

Thanks Apple!

Re:Call me back!

[madmancarman]

The best thing I loved about Apple's Customer Service, is that when I called, the lady asked me my name and then asked for my phone number so she could call me back just in case we got disconnected. Do you believe that? I can't remember the number of times that I've been disconnected on Customer Service lines, but for once someone got it right.

I was working on an IBM Netfinity Server once and the very first thing IBM's support asked me was for my name and phone number so they could call me back, so I think this is becoming standard among the industry leaders.

In fact, after resolving the problem (Windows 2000 crashing due to the NIC and some service pack nonsense), they called back a week later to make sure everything was still working so that they could close the support ticket. They were also very nice and knowledgable (once you got to level 3). Pretty impressive.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Gandhi

Levels of Expertise

[virg_mattes]

> The consumer shouldn't be expected to have a clue. Or would you rather computers remained niche items owned only by the technological elite?

Unfair assessment. One can be a regular consumer and still have a small clue, and it's reasonable to expect the customer to understand a few basics. After all, should someone who owns a car not be expected to understand the terms, "ignition", "steering wheel" and "driver's side"? While I accept that someone calling for technical support shouldn't have to understand installing drivers to get a device to work, when someone gets on the phone and doesn't understand what I mean when I say "double click" or turns off the monitor when I tell them to turn off the base unit, I have a right to complain when they say that I suck at supporting them. They don't have to know the intimate details of IRQs and BIOS configuration, but it's perfectly reasonable to expect them to know how to use the computer and understand the terms that are defined on the Quick Start card.

Virg

Re:Why not?

[swb]

I think I meant the Rev 1 Blue and White models; its new information brought to my attention by a co-worker trying to figure out why a firewire CDR works flawlessly on several machines but dies on several others.

The PB520 was ages ago, but at the time it was a problem. The first bunch of our machines to get fixed (and many required service) all had their ribbon cables disintegrate, leaving the machines further out of comission until new parts could be had; it wasn't until later that the service guys just ordered many extra parts because they got sick of fixing the machine twice.

The point wasn't that Apples are necessarily bad, but that "Apples are superior" has really not been the case for us, based upon the machines we've had to deal with.

What did you expect?

[Guppy06]

Tech support operators are rewarded not for how well they solve a problem but for how quickly they clear the phone line (he with the most calls per hour wins). Beyond that, more and more PC companies practically hide their support phone number, instead trying to herd their customers into e-mailing over-generalized bots that pay almost as little attention to their customers as their phone support techies. And woe to the person who actually knows more than the average phone techie who has to call tech support.

Customer satisfaction doesn't do much for profits one way or the other. Maintaining support facilities costs money, but the most money can be saved by getting people in and out as quickly as possible (satisfaction be damned). In the continuing quest of investors for the quick buck, is anybody really surprised by the amount of disdain the average computer manufacturer shows their customers?

Re:More kudos to Apple ... anyone with bad stories

[Graff]

Time from problem discovery to problem resolution: 70 hours. Cost to me: $0.

I have found Apple's laptop support to be just amazing. My sister had a Powerbook 5300cs, well-known in Mac circles to be a laptop which was plagued with problems. She had a problem with it, so I contacted Apple. It turns out that even though it was way out of warranty, Apple had indefinitely extended the warranty for the 5300 and they sent me a mailer. The mailer came the next day, I sent it out immediately and the laptop was back in 2 days. They not only replaced the motherboard, they also fixed a bad screen hinge and some parts on the case which had gotten badly scratched. In other words, they returned the laptop in near-new condition for no cost and in 3 days from start to finish. Totally cool.

I've been hearing these kind of stories for years from other people who have had to contact Apple support. Sure they sometimes drop the ball, but it seems that it is rare that they do. Combine that with the fact that they are constantly on the cutting edge of technology in both software and hardware, it's not hard to see why they have such strong customer loyalty.

Alienware

[BdosError]

As my URL above may suggest, I don't have anything good to say about Alienware's technical support. Site's down right now, but should be up later this weekend. And maybe I'll put up some of the other people's stories that I've received through the site as well. They suck. And blow.

Re:Why not?

[jmu1]

I can certainly understand. We haven't had any Apple laptops so I can't say anything about them. However, untill recently, we've had no problems(minus third party Zip drives) with our biege, blue&whites, nor our quicksilvers. Mind you, we don't have nearly the expansive number of machines you do. Plus, I'm basing my experience on stuff I have built over the years and the "3 year rollover plan" that we have been working with Gateway on for several rollovers now. Once upon a time, we had Dells in here, but they were a total nightmare(Bios would reset it self/burn out for some reason). I guess you just get them in batches of bad... we had some Gateways that were very stable, and then the shipment after those were total trash. We've continued to use them mainly because management doesn't want to rock the boat... we have a campus-wide agreement with them. I'm in the Library, BTW... interestingly enough, we have our own Systems Group! Mainly what we have a problem with here is powersupplies, motherboards/daughterboards, nics, and harddrives. I know that sounds like a wide range, but since it happens so dang often, it starts to seem like the same thing over and over! ;)

cheers!

Not on the list, but...

[MrResistor]

My vote for worst customer support is Panasonic:

My Panasonic Mini-DV camcorder apparently doesn't exist, and it's only 1.5 years old.

The Panasonic CD-RW I got for my mother-in-laws friend wasn't supported by the Adaptec EasyCD it came bundled with (and it also, apparently, doesn't exist).

My (ex)bosses' printer was the kicker, though. We upgraded all the computers to Win2k and needed drivers for it. It was a dot-matrix, so I didn't have high hopes, but they needed it to print payroll, so obviously it was a high priority job ;) I go to Panasonic's site, and it's listed on their support page, which totally shocks me since this is after the incidents with the CD-RW and Camcorder, and they even have a link and a filename. The link takes me to an FTP site (not to the file I needed, as it claimed it would) that doesn't have the driver I need. I try the one printer driver that is there, but obviously it doesn't work. After 2 hours on the phone alternating between being on hold and saying "I already tried that, it didn't work" to people with the IQ of mashed yams, I finally get transfered to a guy who's able to tell me where to find the drivers: on Panasonics Canadian site!

In short, no more Panasonic for me, ever again.

Re:Why not?

[Galvatron]

According to the article, Dell had FEWER breakdowns than Apple, so the quality argument doesn't hold water.

Re:Who is doing the support.

[Jucius Maximus]

"By the way, every new Mac sold also contains a diagnostic CD. The user can simply insert it, boot in 5 seconds and get a result back for tech support without even needing a supporting OS!! Kewl or wha' ...."

Very cool, except when Celine Dion cooked the CD-drives in certain Apple machines. My suspicion is that since Apple machines have very good design behind them, they protected the user from Celine by committing suicide.

Apple thinks different all right

[ryanvm]

Apple rated the best for tech support. I guess this is where they think different (TM).

No, they think different on price too. ;-)

Re:Dell buys adds = Dell gets press

[Forge]

In some contries (Jamaica) Dell is the ONLY game around. I.e. You can call the 1-800 number and get a technician at your door with a replacment part.

This is the part of service that is important to users like me who can figure out on our own if Windows is broken or the CPU is overheating.

Yes. With a Compaqu or any other name brand PC. When it breaks you are going to be down for a month or more.

burn out

[garyrich]

" A good tech support person can handle bad users."

A good tech rep that can handle problem users can get a job that pays far better and entails less stress. And they do. What's left are the ones that can't. If you are lucky and treat them well you can hang on to good techs with poor people skills and poor techs with good people skills. You can get teh job done that way - but it ain't easy.