Slashdot Mirror
Lasers for Pain-free Dentistry
Chris writes "Australian researchers say that frequency-doubling a femtosecond laser is the way to pain-free dentistry. Using two different Ti:sapphire sources it was found that the 400 nm second harmonic gave the best results. Lasers have long been touted as pain-free replacements for the dreaded dentist's drill. However, the hardness of dental tissue has demanded high-energy pulses for drilling. Previous attempts have resulted in unacceptably slow removal of tooth enamel, and have also damaged teeth. These previous efforts caused shock waves, vibrations and also heated up the tooth's softer tissue, causing significant pain to the patient. Because femtosecond pulses are so short, heat conduction effects are virtually eliminated."
I can hardly wait. "Marathon Man 25th Anniversay DVD features several minutes of revised footage".
Perhaps I'm missing the excitement here having just read (in a PRINT publication, "Discover") about laser dentistry.
/. standards?
Since those articles tend to be written, oh, three months ago, isn't that ancient news by
IANAL, but I've seen actors play them on TV
This is quite cool, but Novocaine-induced numbness is kinda fun. :D
Move 'sig'. For great justice!
Don't know if I want anyone pointing a high-powered laser into my mouth. I just had a cavity filled 2 days ago and I didn't feel a damn thing. The conventional methods seem to be working pretty well...
"I turn away with fright and horror from the lamentable evil of functions which do not have derivatives."
>These previous efforts caused shock waves, vibrations and also heated up the tooth's softer tissue, causing significant pain to the patient.
Being a guinea pig for a tooth laser. Man, that's a hard way to make some extra money.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Previous attempts have resulted in unacceptably slow removal of tooth enamel, and have also damaged teeth.
Silly me, I thought tooth enamel was what you wanted to keep, not remove.
I Am My Own Worst Enemy
Dentist: What?
Patient: I 'ed, doo oo ekek e to tahk!
Dentist: I can't understand you.
Patient: Tak jis kra ow o ny nouh.
Dentist: Oh, okay (removes stuff from patient's mouth.)
Patient: I said, how do you expect me to talk with this crap in my mouth?
Dentist: I don't, Mr. Bond. I expect you to die!
The good and new comes from no quarter where it is looked for, and is always something different from what is expected.
I second the opinion of the fellow who posted a similar response below. I'd hate to be the guy they strap on the chair when they wheel in a volkswagen-sized prototype with steam pulsing out of vents, crazy piston-like thingamajigs, and electrical doohickeys shooting arcs. "We don't know if this will hurt, so let us know." *cue Ghostbusters backpack startup sound*
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
I agree: when was the last time dentistry actually *hurt*? I just hate the idea of someone cutting into me, and lasers / knives / drills / chainsaws all provoke the same reaction: AAAGH.
It's far simpler to cut out the sugar from your diet and keep your teeth healthy like that. I stopped eating sugar about 20 years ago and have had one trip to the dentist since then.
Do we really need more expensive hitech solution to stupidly simple problems?
My blog
Now all they have to do is make a portable version so the dentists can make housecalls.
So this is how Aussies do dentistry. While it's swell and all to be able to painlessly zap a hole in my tooth, it doesn't eliminate the fact that you'd be zapping a hole in my tooth.
The Brits, on the other hand, have gone for a no-hole approach. They're using a new treatment called Healozone, which involves fitting a rubber cap over the tooth and then smothering it with ozone, which eliminates all the bacteria in a matter of seconds. Painless, and much more cool.
--
The angel in the oatmeal.
The problem isn't the drill, or at least it never was for me. Sure, the drill is uncomfortable, afterall the dentist is generally pushing the thing around violently inside your tooth. That's annoying. It's the nerves that are the problem! First of all, there's the shot of novocaine (which is quite traumatic in and of itself). Then there's the drilling. Oops we hit the nerve (like the laser will never do the same thing?) and the novocaine wasn't as strong as we'd have liked. Time to do another shot of novocaine RIGHT DOWN THE CENTER OF YOUR NOW OPEN TOOTH (yes I did go through that). HOLY FUCK THAT HURT. I can't feel anything now.
Drill or no drill, it's the nerve stupid!
chainsaws
My God man! What sort of dentist do you go to?!?
The smell of burned teeth... I think that's worse than the pain of drilling.
:)
Brush your teeth and you won't have this problem
Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies...
Honest politicians and the paperless office.
Ahh - My eye!
The doctor said I'm not supposed to get Slashdot in it!
Perhaps you forgot, but when you got numbed up, do you remember the huge fucking needle the dentist stuck in your mouth? And he said "Little pinch" and it felt like somebody stabbed you with a dagger in the cheek?
Lasers == no more big fucking needles
sounds like an improvement to me
Lasik...
Star Wars shooting down missiles...
All of you geeks missed the boat. The real killer app for lasers:
Laser Vaginal Rejuvenation Center of Georgia
The most amazing thing about this technology is how a guy who was really good with lasers got close enough to a vagina to test it. There was a scientist with some real vision though.
Great, now I'll have a frickin' laser beam attached to my head...
The teeth were treated with 10% sodium hydroxychloride for 10 min and then stored in formalin. Teeth used for pulp cavity temperature measurements were sliced longitudinally in half with the pulp scraped out.
What, they took them out first? Ah, that's no fun...
I mean come on... lasers? I don't like this new wonderous technology from nowhere. Next thing you know we're all confined to our houses and martial law rules and a bunch of fucking lizards is taping earths water.
I for one will not stand for it, Im going to research red anti-lizard powder.
I prefer brushing and flossing to dental surgery.
...if you can make a Tesla coil out of an old TV, can you make a few slight modifications to a CD-ROM to make a dentist's (finger quotes) laser...?
Come to think of it, Doctor Evil does look slightly like my dentist. Time to run, methinks.
Like car accidents, most hardware problems are due to driver error.
Aw, what fun is that? Steve Martin would be very upset.
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
The Guardian (UK) had an article yesterday about using ozone to treat tooth decay - 40 second treatment, zero pain... sounds like my kind of dentistry!!
My dentist has a laser, he loves it.
My tooth was cracked. To have the crown fitted properly, because of the tooth shape and the deep crack, he needed to get below the gum line. There was sort of an indentation in the shape of the tooth, so my gum was coming over where the cap needed to go. My dentist used his laser to cut back the gum and importantly - cauterize - the cut at the same time. That allowed him to continue the work, it didn't hurt for me. My dentist says he couldn't have done it as quickly or easily, that it would have been quite difficult, if he hadn't had his new laser.
I'm a big fan of brushing and flossing also. Who would have thought that a bagel would be so bad (bagels are a leading cause of cracked teeth - don't eat stale bagels).
Mike.
Mmmm......sacrelicious.
My dentist always asks me if I'd like nitrous oxide along with the "freezing". I always say yes.
If these lasers are painless I WON'T GET MY NO2!
-... ---
Just reading the subject made my teeth hurt.
Until you accidentally move your head to the left during the process.
I feel sorry for the people who answered the sign at their university to finally get that aching tooth worked on. Does this hurt? (muffled scream) How about this? This?
I hope that shady dentists that are trying to torture information out of me will quickly adapt this new technology.
There are some odd things afoot now, in the Villa Straylight.
Why go for the physical option. It looks like ozone is the magic anti-oxidant for teeth capable of repairing damage and protecting.
Guardian UK No more fillings?
It's one of life's horrors. But a controversial new treatment could soon make the dentist's drill a thing of the past. Leo Hickman reports
Maybe in a few years you can buy your own Mega-Deluxe-Dual-Laser-3000-Denta'Flexa on tellsell, batteries included. Could help save on those insurance bills. Oh wait I live in The Netherlands. Dental work is almost free overhere. Would be fun though.
The glass is half-full. With poison. And there are cracks in the glass. The dirty, dirty glass.
Isn't it "Curiosity killed the cat, satisfaction brought it back"?
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
i think i prefer the cutter, i don't want somebody playing the jedi with laser sabre on my mouth....
I've had numerous fillings (never taken care of my teeth until I had to have a root canal, by which time it was too late) but never had numbing. I hate needles. As said in a previous post, its not the drilling that hurts, its catching the nerve that hurts! The worst you get from fillings is the vibrations, which numbing doesn't stop anyway! (Oh, and the occasional slight twinge when the dentist gets to the bottom!) I finally relented to having an injection for my root canal. I was in quite a lot of pain, so it was rather welcome!
http://www.22balmoralroad.net/ http://www.tinynetworks.co.uk/
The Brits, on the other hand, have gone for a no-hole approach...
Sorry, but taking dental advice from the Brits is like taking security advice from Microsoft.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Right up until they miss. "Oops, sorry about that small hole in your cheek."
Science may someday discover what faith has always known.
Waaaa, I got 4 wisdom teeth pulled this summer, and 2 days later i was at a bar, drinking beer! Boo-yah!
Remove this drill from my presence! All I ask for is a frick'n "Laser."
The cure for cancer is coming: Reovirus
There's a local dentist advertising this. I was assuming it was some sort of laser thing, hell, it's been years since any innovation in the dentistry field.
With a check-up appointment next Thursday, I wonder whether it's worth going for the laser thing. The injection is probably half as bad, and even worse if it doesn't work properly.
What are the cost differences? Surely the attraction of less pain would draw more money. Hell, I'd pay a little extra for the laser thing.
THe ozone treatment actually makes me wonder. Having fillings is a risk - they'll have to replace them with fillings won't they? Maybe it's worth waiting till this treatment also becomes available here down under.
Has anybody here had the laser treatment? Is anybody willing to give a detailed comparison between conventional and laser treatment?
Sorry, but taking dental advice from the Brits is like taking security advice from Microsoft.
Actually, I think it's because British teeth are legendarily bad that they've ended up researching so much into dentistry.
I mean, why would you research new dental techniques if everyone has a grin like Tom Cruise? But when they've got Austin Powers incisors, then there's clearly a need for serious research.
--Ng
As if going to the dentist wasnt torture enough, now they are going to sick 'fricken sharks with laser beams on their heads' on us!
Reading some of these anecdotes is making my teeth hurt...
I recently found another way to deal with the pain and fear involved in dental work (yeah, I know, you're not afraid... but I am!). Found a place that does "sedation dentistry." Best Google search I ever did. They offer a couple of sedation options, including a big dose of a sleeping pill and/or an IV. They monitor your vital signs to ensure safety. If you're afraid of dental work or you still feel pain despite the novocaine, this might be worth considering. And if you've put off the dental work until you need a lot of stuff done, they can do a lot at once while you're out of it.
Dunno about you, but I'd rather be sedated than sit there, fully alert, wondering if I'm about to feel intense pain.
Dentistry has historically been a profession sadists love to enter. With pain-free lasers, they won't be able to torture people any more. This could lead to a terrible shortage of dentists. There's just no way the dentist in Little Shop of Horrors could get off using one of these.
That's Bigboo TAY! TAY!
This is slightly off-topic, but check out this article http://www.guardian.co.uk/Print/0,3858,4477521,00. html from the Guardian on using Ozone to help in alleviating the problems with fillings and reducing dental decay.
Speaking of that, did you notice at the end of the first AP, his teeth were fixed? In one of the scenes where he is in the hotel room, he smiles and his teeth "glint" because he got them fixed for her. Then in the next movie, they were crooked again. Man, it must be genetic if cosmetic surgery can't even fix them. :-)
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Sorry, but taking dental advice from the Brits is like taking security advice from Microsoft.
Or diet advice from a Yank!
... Just so long as the dental nurse remembers to change the setting on the laser from VAPOURISE BULLDOZER to PAINLESS DENTISTRY :-)
--
What short sigs we have -
One hundred and twenty chars!
Too short for haiku.
Is it safe?
Wow. First laser eye surgery, and now laser teeth surgery.
I'll bet we all get spam in a few days telling us to INCREASE YOUR PENIS SIZE USING LASERS!
Someone hit a nerve.
Pun intended
DP
Who's your dentist? Orin Scrivello, D.D.S.?
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
It's a laser that whirs like a drill !! (Space Mutiny)
I don't know about the rest of the world, but every dentist I've seen in the last five years here in America has used a kind of "tooth sandblaster".
Doesn't hurt at all, no need for sedation or even much anaesthetics (I don't even think I used any anaesthetics...)
The only down side is the gritty taste in your mouth afterwards.
I think somebody ought to have told me before, that this laser-dentistry is still in beta.
Previous attempts have resulted in unacceptably slow removal of tooth enamel, and have also damaged teeth. [...] heated up the tooth's softer tissue, causing significant pain to the patient.
Yes. I can definitely say, that the current laser dentistry is way better that with a drill, but is is still a very painful experience.
Now, if the new laser also eliminates the smell of burning teeth, it is perfect.
Could be worse. Could be raining.
Isn't that what the american government have just done... Appoited someone from monkeysoft as a security expert.
Or was it the other way arround? well there all fucking each other anyhows
If he ever hit a nerve I'm sure it would hurt, but then again the laser probably would too...
Of course, dentists can charge you extra for using novocaine, whereas the heated water is free. Not a great incentive to use the cheaper, easier, and better solution.
When I had my wisdom teeth removed, the first time (they did left/right set separately) it seemed like it took 5 minutes, there was no pain, and everything was groovy. I didn't think the gas did much at all. The 2nd time, the gas machine was broken. It was then when I realized why people dislike dentists. It didn't hurt, but I felt every hammer hit, felt every chissel, it seemed like it took forever, etc. Demand the gas.
I would be curious about one thing: the range. The drill bit is of a limited size, and it cannot easily get to your throat if is accidentally slips of the teeth you're getting fixed. But the laser is basically (at short distances) a straight line from its emitter, so one small mistake and all that raw power will be frying your inner skin. No good!
Get rid of the sugar in your diet, cut out the starches, adopt a low-carb diet like your evolutionary ancestors did. Your dental problems will likely lessen to the point where you don't NEED the stupid laser in your mouth! :)
Well im skeptical about how well this will work with futher studies to be done. As a future dentist, the ozone use does worry me, not to metion that they claim no need for removal of "Dead" tissue with is what a carie is. Even though it says its only for small cavities, but lets face the fact folk when you go to the dentist cause of a tooth ache the cavity is not small. As for the "sandblaster" some one mentioned thats just a prophilaxis, which is routine. And the person claiming warm water slightly hurt less, belive me if you have an exposed nerve and if Air passes over that with slight pressure your gonna scream with out anesthisia. And dont be punks the needle doesnt hurt that much with the exception of the nasopaltine nerve in which case your dentist should apply a topical anesthetic to you feel less discomfort.
I have been delaying work on my 12 false teeth, now I can get the job done in no pain
/-\ |-|
LEIA: No! My bicuspid is fine. It has no cavities. You can't possibly...
DR. TARKIN: You would prefer another target? Some plaque perhaps? Then name the tooth!
Dr. Tarkin waves menacingly toward Leia.
DR. TARKIN: I grow tired of asking this. So it'll be the last time. Where is the cavity?
LEIA: (softly) Left back molar.
Leia lowers her head.
LEIA: It's on my left back molar.
DR. TARKIN: There. You see Darth Dentist, she can be reasonable. Continue with the operation. You may fire when ready.
LEIA: What?
DR. TARKIN: You're far too trusting. Your back molar is too remote to make an effective demonstration. But don't worry. We will deal with your cavity soon enough.
That's funny.....the article makes it sound like laser drills in the past have been ineffective and painful....
My dentist has a laser drill that also uses a small water jet that removes decay just fine.....and doesn't hurt a bit. The drill will not work on removing old fillings (they are apparently too hard), but still.....for filling in new holes, it's great! No more shots =)
I just hope my dentist doesn't toke up the next time I have a visit; I can see it now:
Dentist:
"And now I shall blow a hole in your tooth with this device, which I shall call a 'laaaaaser'"
aaiiiee!!!
i have to make a statment when it comes to lasers in denistry for the information is never posted as truthful as it should. first off just an fyi denist do not use novacaine anymore. it has been long gone due to the common nature of the adverse reactions that were caused with it. the common anesthetic used now is lidocaine (2%xylo 1/100epi). sometimes marcaine if less epi (1/200) is needed.
anyway, on with the lasers. lasers drills are not actually a good product yet for they are only half as useful. if a person already has restorative work done in the tooth that is being worked on a laser drill cannot be used. the standard high/slow speed drill combo with carbide or diamond bur must be used instead. the laser drill can only be used on dentention and cannot be used on restorative amalgam or composite material. since most patients have existing restoration the laser drill cannot be used and its high price does not go well with its low usage.
note that any work that is done on the tooth can cause the tooth to go necrotic, especially with advanced lesions and/or if close to the pulp chamber (nerve), this is not uncommon. dentist in this case, depending on the doctor, might place a calcium hydroxide layer that can hopefully prevent it from going nercrotic. that is why it is always good to go to your dentist for regular six months visit and fill a small cavity than a big one. this is always less traumatic to the tooth and anesthetic might not need to be used.
there has been progress on this subject. the making of highspeed electric drills compared to air. these drills are able to create enough torque so that they also cause less trauma but still either handpiece cost a sufficent amount of money. denistry has one of the highest over head than any health care profession. so the fact of seeing that many modern hand pieces are going to be rare. personally, a doctors style, empathy and knowledge are more important than a modern hand piece.
most pain related issues that i have found when it comes to a patient either have to do with blood brain barrier resistance to the anesthetic, or aprehension. which goes on to the doctors fault of not having good empathy and proper dosage of anethetic. comunicate with your doctor and/or find one that you are comfortable with its your right. you the patient have the option to go to any doctor you like. when insurance is involved check with your human resource manager for good dental insurance-one with good coverage and good doctor selection.
if you have aprehension take care of your teeth and go for your six months checkups. most patient problems are well deserved. it is amazing the difference after proper education in hygiene can cause change thier attitude. especailly when it is a 15 min checkup and no cavities and you are out.
p.s. a little education:
remember this, your teeth hold the structure of your face. with out them your face will sink inward or with some missing teeth change the look of your face. you smile when you meet someone a normal human sign of attraction or liking to a friend. also it is your first stage in the digestion process if you love food you should love your teeth for the fact that they allow you to chew it properly to digest.
if you complain you dont have the time to take care of them "brushing for two minutes is to long" "flossing takes to much time" you will be making the time to fix them and it deserves you so.
If the gov fedralizes dental work, then they can do missle defense and dental work at the same time off the same laser. Just hope they don't get the lenses mixed up.
Table-ized A.I.
Over the 25+ years I've been goiung to dentists I've watched with interest as new treatment methods have been introduced. My interest has been based on the fact that, despite all the interesting developments shown on TV's Tomorrow's World (UK) or the US equivalent, NOTHING HAS CHANGED! I get a painful injection, some distressing drilling, and a heavy metal patch applied to my tooth.
I moved from the UK to the US 3 years ago, and it's the same here (only it costs more).
From their site:
"Curozone (USA) Inc, together with Professor Dr Edward Lynch and his team at Queens University, Belfast have developed this technology to treat dental caries, or tooth decay."
(formerly "Painful Dentistry")
- seen on an old Simpsons episode
Cool funny t-shirts for geeks, gamers and everyone else
the site is slashdotted -- but i have to wonder, how many femto-second is the burst exactly?
.3um (micro-meter)
reason being:
light travels ~30cm / ns (nano-sec) (about 12 inches)
so each pico second it travels something like 0.3mm
and each femto second, well,
it is not hard to point out that all the energy in cutting away your tooth is concentrated in a span of space a few microns long.
talk about power-density!!
i know it's pointing out the obvious. but it's pretty cool so i had to muse.
My life in the land of the rising sun.
Christian Szell: Is it safe?
Babe: Yes, it's safe, it's very safe, so safe you wouldn't believe it.
Christian Szell: Is it safe?
Babe: No, it's not safe, it's very dangerous, be careful.
"Ah yes...the laser the whurrs like a drill!"
Well, it would make sense that Gringos do a lot of dietary research and Brits do a lot of dental research.
No sig for the moment.
Then the words 'Dentist'
That crappy bear is the only beer I have ever poured out after taking a sip. I should have taken a hint that it is served in an oil can.
Nothing probably grows on that spot even now.
Dressed up as a dentist with mini me in a nurses uniform, Dr Evil turning to mini me and asking for the laser. hmmmm....this visions getting scarier now...
Going to the dentist hurts enough as it is. I'm just thinking about these people who got suckered into the try this contraption the first time.
Get a clue people. If the Springer show calls you up one day, do NOT answer the phone and immediately suspect everybody around you is gay, sleeping with your dog, and wants to be a pregnant stripper. "Experimental dental" is no different.
You don't have to tell me it's short, I've never even heard of a femtosecond!
Having said that, do you ever get the feeling these R&D guys are just making these words up?
Researcher #1: Well, this is the shortest pulse yet! .001 picoseconds.
Researcher #2: Less than a picosecond?
#1: Yeah.
#2: Shit man, you know the suits hate decimals!
#1: Oh.. Uhhh... *strokes long grey bushy beard* I have a cunning plan!
#2: *sighs* Let's hear it, then.
#1: We'll call it a femtosecond!
#2: You're a genius!
But they're not, thankfully. Here's a little guide.
Ali
Ph33r m3!!!
will always be an oxymoron.
word.
I had a filling come out awhile back, and when the dentist went to replace it, he used a laser to clean up the "cavity" (more of a hole @ that point) prior to putting the new filling in place.
;-)
Granted, it wasn't true "drilling", but there was no novacain, no NO (laughing gas - I get nauseated with the stuff, so always needed novacain before), and most importantly - no pain...
I was "in the chair" for like 10 minutes tops - quickest dentist trip I've ever had!
Haven't had a true "cavity" needing drilling/filling in at least a decade, and hope I never do, but IF I do, hope they can use laser on it.
Hey! Does anyone know where I can get a copy of this? I'll pay!
RAILING!!!!
I sing the doggie electric!
Wow, it's been a while since I've made a post.
... Novocaine hasn't been in use for a long time now since too many people had allergic reactions to it.
Here's my point of view, as a practicing dentist. (How many dentists do we have in the crowd here anyways?)
A large part of my judgement between decayed versus solid tooth is via feeling, whether it be with the handpiece when drilling, or with other instruments. Color isn't reliable, as decayed dentin can often be normal coloured, and solid tooth may well be stained. There are various dyes available, though from the last few studies that I remember reading about, they often stain more than just decayed structure, which of course means you'd end up removing more tooth. Once could cut with the laser and check with another instrument, but the touching of the dentin would probably be quite unconfortable.
Tactile sense is nice to have as a guide when working as well, besides for distinguishing between decay/non-decay. Push harder, and you feel resistance. Move to a point where you're no longer touching the tooth, and you'll feel open air. One would have to learn to adjust to not having that feedback when using a laser, but that wouldn't be too difficult.
The only laser I've used personally in my pratice is a device known as the DiagnoDENT (manufactured by KaVo, a German company), which measures fluorescence from the tooth as excited by a HeNe laser (IIRC) to detect decay (since decayed tooth structure gives off greater fluorescence). It seems to work fairly well for very shallow cavities, but for anything deeper, I personally found it less accurate than I would have liked. Hence, I don't use it much these days.
Other uses of lasers have included soft tissue surgery (of course), and curing lights (I think there have been some problems with the narrow spectrum of lasers and some materials using different photoinitiators... also a concern with the more recent LED curing lights). I haven't used any of these personally. Equipment tends to be... expensive.
BTW, for everyone who keeps on saying 'Novocaine'
-- Silhouette
Now that they have closed in on "painless dentistry", how about a painless wallet to take with you to the Dentist Office? btw, dentists know how to kill the pain for as long as it takes for you to exit the waiting room on the way out, so you don't alarm those waiting their turn in the chair. You get home, however, and your're toast.
Hmm haven't you heard the ads? "Sedation dentistry...the solution for pain-free dentist visits". That's right...no pain and you get to be felt up by your dentist for free.
The big stuff--crowns, root canals, removal of old fillings, and all that, still requires a drill, often of the slow variety, to get the right shape and surface. The mechanical feedback is important to dentists to know when to stop drilling and to create subtle surface features that make the fillings actually stay in.
And even if you could ablate half a tooth with a high powered laser, frankly, I wouldn't want to have half a tooth, or old amalgam fillings, for that matter, vaporized inside my mouth.