Sony Proudly Rolls Out Spyware/Restrictions System

jhonny writes "Sony announced a new DRM technology called OpenMG X. Basically it keeps track on how many times you played/viewed (or tried to copy) your product and sends these statistics to the copyright holder."

Comments

And they'll call it:

[SpanishInquisition]

The Spyman!

Re:And they'll call it:

[uncoveror]

Now that Sony's computer division is on the same page as their music division, it is time to boycott all their products, not just their CDs. Don't buy anything from Sony.

Re:And they'll call it:

[PainKilleR-CE]

Funny, but I always thought of Sony, et. al. as *CONSUMER* electronics companies, not slack-jawed Yes Men for the Hollywood Mafia.


Sony is the Tokyo branch of the Hollywood Mafia (MPAA's board of directors list on their 'about' page has Sony listed right after Disney). As an added bonus, the name Sony appears no less than 10 times on the RIAA membership list, without even counting the sub-labels that don't carry the Sony name, but are still wholly owned by Sony.

Re:And they'll call it:

[splanky]

Sony Music was the first major label to quit accepting open CD returns. They're the reason that very few stores accept opened CDs for a refund. They sent out this letter saying that since they don't manufacture defective CDs that they will no longer accept open returns. They said they'd give us about 10 cents on each CD to take care of returns that customers would have. Since then, they've reduced that amount to about 6 cents. Within a month of that original letter, our store got returned a bunch of open Sony CDs from customers - the problem? They bought Janis Joplin's Greatest Hits only to find Simon & Garfunkel inside the case.

I relate this story to warn everyone that Sony is tenacious, arrogant company that will follow through on their threats. Think about how long they stuck with Beta or now they are trying to jam SACD down everyone's throats.

Re:And they'll call it:

[IIRCAFAIKIANAL]

I already did - that's why I bought a GameCube. Sony sucks ass

Re:And they'll call it:

[splanky]

>awaiting a widespread adoption of a higher resolution audio format such as SACD or 2channel DVD Audio

So am I :o) I've played with both, and I like SACD better the DVD-Audio... But Sony, here again has made the process way harder. By refusing to cooperate with the DVD Audio group they splintered the market. The DVD Audio group was a consortium of companies trying to come up with a plan where Sony decided to go their own route. Hence we're stuck with two competing formats with neither getting a foothold.

PS I forgot one on my list of pig-headed sony formats - the infamous Mini-Disc!

Re:And they'll call it:

[skotte]

on the subject of names, isnt it kinda offensive they use the term "open"? I mean, the Open Source Initiative doesnt own the rights to the word, obviously. but isnt it somehow misleading or deceptive or some kind of annoying they should use "open" like a generic buzzword here? "Open" as the suggestion of being something specific, which this is almost certainly not. it would be like me making a beef product and calling it Vegi-Stuff.

what are they claiming is especially open about this piece of software?

yes, i probably am nitpicking. but....

Re:And they'll call it:

[ImaLamer]

Let's talk about how they paid off (it's legal) every store around so they wouldn't carry DC games and killed the system so their PS2 would go off without a hitch...

HERE is a good use for a firewall.

[Marx_Mrvelous]

Finally, a real erason for someone with a Windows machine (or Linux for that matter) to have a firewall...

Re:HERE is a good use for a firewall.

[guacamolefoo]

My thoughts exactly. The only problem is, what if Sony

• requires

the product to be able to communicate with the "server module" at some point in the future? Basically, I fear a movement towards disabling hardware if reporting does not take place. This may be a first step in that direction.

Re:HERE is a good use for a firewall.

[sqlrob]

And if communication uses PKI, how do you spoof it?

Re:HERE is a good use for a firewall.

[Lord_Slepnir]

I remember when 3d studio max started to require a peice of hardware for their program to work. Sounds impossible? It was cracked before it came out of beta. Basically, if sony does something like this, it will take someone about an hour to write a simple DNS server that will re-route all requests to a certain server (or loopback devide) and to reply to the program how it wants to, so that for all the program knows, it's talking to the real server. Sure, they'll throw in encryption and such, but that will be breakable as well. What Sony will see as a huge investment, a lot of hackers / crackers will see as an exercise in server emulation.

Re:HERE is a good use for a firewall.

[DrVxD]

> f communication uses PKI, how do you spoof it?
Psycho Keneitc Interference? I'll just wear my aluminium foil propeller-head beanie!

Re:HERE is a good use for a firewall.

[sqlrob]

PKI = Public Key Infrastructure

e.g. all communication between client and server is signed. Client encrypts with server public key, server signs with its private key. The client rejects anything unsigned or incorrectly signed. If the authentication requests are always changing (random number, time, counter are included in the signed request), replay attacks won't work.

You would need to either compromise the private key or find a weakness in the algorithm. Done correctly, that would take many years to do. By which point the newest version of the product is out and you have to start over on the attack.

Re:HERE is a good use for a firewall.

[Ayende Rahien]

Why are you going to all this trouble?
You get the code, you disassemble it, you find a line that looks like this:

call AllowedToView ; Copy Right Management function

You replace it with a this :

call true ; always return true

And you are done.

Re:HERE is a good use for a firewall.

[DrVxD]

I was a JOKE.

Re:HERE is a good use for a firewall.

[renehollan]

CSS (in the DVD sense) was hardly strong encryption. IIRC, it used a stream cipher with a weak (in the number-of-bits, not mathematical, sense) key.

There are far stronger mechanisms around.

Re:HERE is a good use for a firewall.

[kalimar]

Somehow I don't think Sony cares about computers that aren't connected in some way to the 'Net. After all, one requirement of using software with this tech in it might be a connection to the internet. In which case the software would be useful off 'Net. And it you block the connection, Sony might just decide that consistutes being "off 'Net" in which case the software is, again, useless.

In truth, this doesn't bother me at all. Technology is good. It promotes innovation and research. Laws, on the other hand, are what stifle innovation and research. The way technology is used also stifles innovation and research. If this technology is used to:

• a) charge per use,
• b) track data about me for the purposes of selling or giving that data to someone else,
• c) make my life difficult by using it to restrict my activities,
• or otherwise inflict hardship upon me,

then you know what, I'll stop using the technology (if I have the option) and complain to those people in power (the RIAA, MPAA, etc) about how their use of this technology sucks and I'm not going to stand for it and my money is going to go elsewhere.
Sound futile? probably is. Until you get into significant fractions of percentage points of the population doing the same. Then those in power will probably take note. Will they do anything? Probably not until you have at least a full percentage point.

People saying that this technology is bad should think about what they say. Rather than saying that the technology is bad, point out the ways it can be used constructively (allow companies to see what sells and what doesn't) and point out the ways it can be used in bad faith (selling data, etc). Come up with constructive, cogent, and coherent reasons for why the ways listed as 'bad faith' are in truth more harmful than good, and v.v. Take those points to the people wanting to implement the 'bad faith' practices. Take them to the media (all media, not just niche media points).

<Wishful Thinking>
Example: Imagine a group of people banding together to go to the RIAA and complain about the various policies that the RIAA wants to implement. Imagine that group of people contains artists who don't agree with the RIAA. Imagine you have the data to prove it. You get enough of them together and the RIAA has to take note and realize they are hurting themselves and the artists that agree with them.
</Wishful Thinking>

Re:HERE is a good use for a firewall.

[funkhauser]

Yeah, and remember not to cross the streams! :)

Re:HERE is a good use for a firewall.

[Erbo]

And then they nail you under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, and you go to jail. End of story.

Re:HERE is a good use for a firewall.

[sqlrob]

I remember (article here?) there was a clever response from DTV that destroyed pirate cards. Was there ever a workaround for that?

Are the DTV cards always 2 way communication? E.g. For every single channel change is there communication with the server revalidating the card? You could do that with every upload to a DRM enabled MP3 player.

Re:HERE is a good use for a firewall.

[skotte]

the digital what?

oh! you mean that AMERICAN contrivance .. yeah, i've heard it really slows down pirating in like, somewhere.

Re:HERE is a good use for a firewall.

[martyn s]

Actually, it started when the Supreme Court ruled that corporations are entitled the same rights that any individual has. That was around the time of Abraham Lincoln. So it started long before any of us were born.

Re:HERE is a good use for a firewall.

[Moonshadow]

Then you download the crack for it.

Honestly, you can't release a piece of software that employs restrictions and not expect it to be cracked. There are, and always will be, ways around this kind of stuff. A firewall is an excellent start - I'm already blocking Windows Media Player from its little "phone home" hijinks, and it's caught more than one spywre app I unwittingly installed (promptly to be uninstalled with AdAware).

If a piece of software is too hard for people to use, they won't use it. If you have to be connected to the internet in order to play a CD, people will not use it. Not everyone has always-on cable or DSL. Remember that the majority of people out there are the kind who complain if the software doesn't think for them. People don't want to have to think to use a computer - they just want it to work. If Sony is stupid enough to require some actual work and thought to use their consumer-targeted software, it will ultimately fail.

Re:HERE is a good use for a firewall.

[Ayende Rahien]

Well, naturally.
The point is that you can more or less see where the function that does this checking is.
Then just replace the call.
It's not fun, of course, but it's not much trouble and has to be done only once, then it's a matter of patching a few bytes in the executable.
That is the reason why most applications are so easy to crack.

Re:HERE is a good use for a firewall.

[Ayende Rahien]

As dakoda pointed out, it's not *that* easy.
It's not biggie, but it's a matter of sitting down and watching disassembled code, not fun on best of circumstances.
There is also the legal view, in which it's probably wrong, but that is another matter.

Re:HERE is a good use for a firewall.

[realdpk]

Well, yes, but that still doesn't explain your mistake. :)

It's been 14 seconds since you hit 'reply'!

Re:HERE is a good use for a firewall.

[zbuffered]

If you can't break through it, simply go around it. If the content itself is encrypted, then if the unlocking key can only be provided via an encrypted communication, wait for it to decrypt the communication that contains the key, on your machine, so that it can decrypt the content. Or wait until the content has been decrypted, and capture that. Or whatever. PKI will not be the weakest link in the chain between my content and me. I will find a way to get at it. If you're desparate, there's always the analog hole.

And if that doesn't work, boycott.

Re:HERE is a good use for a firewall.

[G-funk]

You would need to either compromise the private key or find a weakness in the algorithm. Done correctly, that would take many years to do. By which point the newest version of the product is out and you have to start over on the attack.

Or, you could simply hack the client program, and change a jne to a je, or if you can't find the right one, you can replace the public key stored in the software with one of your own.

Re:HERE is a good use for a firewall.

[Wolfier]

I've done something like this. With the right tools, you'll get information so adequate that function names are no longer needed.

I remember cracking something over the phone with someone who knows nothing about making his own crack on the other side. I asked him to download the debugger, disassemble, asked him for certain clues...and the program was cracked in 20 minutes from start (downloading the debugger) to finish (verifying the patch works).

It's THAT easy. Bad protection is worse than no protection at all.

Hang on a sec. . .

[PhxBlue]

How is it spyware if they tell you it's sending data to the copyright holder? Isn't spyware supposed to be a bit more subtle than that?

Re:Hang on a sec. . .

[MarvinMouse]

Yeah, it's kinda like a FBI agent turnign to you and going... "Hang on a second, I have to phone the FBI and tell them you are about to sell me illegal goods. It'll only take a second. Just wait right there."

I think letting people know you are spying on them, will only tick them off, and lead to more protection against being spied on. (Or more linux, or firewalls.) But hey, won't fire walls circumvent this DRM... isn't that illegal by the DMCA? hmm... interesting.

Re:Hang on a sec. . .

[PMadavi]

It's kind of worse than spying. Spying, at least you're being tricked. This is really domineering (spelling?).

"We're going to watch you silly consumers, so you don't do things with our product that we don't want you to do. Why? Because we're bigger and stronger, that's why."

Re:Hang on a sec. . .

[mpe]

How is it spyware if they tell you it's sending data to the copyright holder?

More likely it's actually communicating with a central service. With that service (allegedly) informing the copyright owner. Since the file itself cannot possibly know who it's current copyright owner might be.

Re:Hang on a sec. . .

[Danse]

What do you want to bet that the guy at Best Buy that is trying to sell you this thing won't tell you that it reports everything you watch? I bet it's not listed as a feature on the box either. It's most likely buried in a EULA somewhere inside the box. You won't even know about it unless you get it home and read the EULA. Shouldn't we know about these things before we buy so we don't end up wasting a lot of time buying something that is useless to us?

Re:Hang on a sec. . .

[Safety Cap]

It's most likely buried in a EULA somewhere inside the box.

Those were ruled unenforceable in ProCD, Inc. v. Zeidenberg.

Re:Hang on a sec. . .

[curunir]

It's the James Bond theory of spying. You walk right in the front door, get captured, the evil doer tells you his fiendish plan, then make a daring escape and return with a large contingent of government troops.

Re:Hang on a sec. . .

[Danse]

I'm not sure what you got from reading that link, but to me, it looks like a district court ruled EULAs unenforceable, and the the court that wrote the ruling you linked to overturned the district court's ruling and remanded it back to them. Thus EULAs remain enforceable.

So...

[Hittite Creosote]

Do I need to be connected to the internet to use it? And does it honestly think I'm going to let it past my firewall to report its findings?

Re:So...

[swordgeek]

That's always been my thought. However, what happens when the game doesn't work unless it can get to Sony? You will take it back. I will take it back. 99.99% of the population will play it, happily submitting all of their demographics to Sony.

So the end result is that the only people who would do something about it get marginallised, and can only avoid it by not playing. Whee.

Re:So...

[moncyb]

It appears you haven't tried to return software (or music or movies) to some stores. Many of them will tell you "because of current copyright laws" you can only exchange them for the same item. Even if the product's design is defective, and it doesn't work with any of your equipment!

PS 3

[new_breed]

"Installation not only on PCs, but also on networked devices such as PlayStation 2, AV devices, and mobile devices" Great..if this comes with my PS 3, I'm not buying one.

Re:PS 3

[David Wong]

Oh, you'll buy a PS3. Haven't you heard the news that it will be powerful enough to watch your body's movements via digital cameras and translate them into hyper-realistic digital virtual worlds on a processor 1,000 times more powerful than the PS2?

I think it also says somewhere in the article that you'll be able to strap it to your back and it will fly you to the moon.

Re:PS 3

[funkhauser]

Yeah, if you blow up too many helicopters in GTA5, Sony will know and they'll send the FBI. You know, because blowing up helicopters is suspicious behavior.

Great...

[jamis]

What company needs to know that...

DVD - Naughty Coed Cheerleaders in Heat IV
Viewed 23,433 times

Re:Great...

[HiQ]

Viewed 23,433 times
Especially sections from 10min15 to 11min45, from 21min to 23min38, etc... (also known as the 'sticky bits')

Re:Great...

[$rtbl_this]

Well, if it's for forecasting, how about the manufacturers of Kleenex?

Re:Great...

[DrVxD]

> DVD - Naughty Coed Cheerleaders in Heat IV
> Viewed 23,433 times
Does it have a good plot?

Re:Great...

[stinkydog]

And you though it was coincidence that your mailbox was full of coupons for kleenex and jergens.

SD

Re:Great...

[Pig Hogger]

And you though it was coincidence that your mailbox was full of coupons for kleenex and jergens.

Boy, am I glad to be uncircumcized; it would cost me a fortune in hand lotion!!!

OpenMG X?

[Hornsby]

It seems like the latest trend is to prefix Open on anything that's proprietary and evil to try and trick "Open Source" hackers into thinking it's not so bad.

Re:OpenMG X?

[phillymjs]

I think in this context, they mean "open" like the back of a hospital gown, and the consumer is the person wearing the gown.

~Philly

Re:OpenMG X?

[pieterh]

Or 'open' in the sense of being so open-minded that your brains fall out.

Re:OpenMG X?

[Florian Weimer]

It's in the tradtion of the "Open Software Foundation" and "The Open Group". In the traditional sense, "open" means "more than one vendor is involved".

So what happens if...

[Anonymous Coward]

I try to copy it 1,000,000 times?

Re:So what happens if...

[sammy baby]

You win a prize. Duh.

Re:So what happens if...

[Tenebrious1]

So what happens if... I try to copy it 1,000,000 times?

Your puter sends 1M packets to Sony, taking down their router and server. They arrest you for launching a DoS attack on their server.

The story of your arrest gets posted to /., and we respond by generating scripts that say we're listening/sharing 500 copies of Vanilla Ice's "Ice Ice Baby". Sony gives Ice a huge $80M five record contract. We laugh as Sony posts a record $2billion loss for 2002...

Re:So what happens if...

[Dimensio]

You forgot "Sony blames their losses on music piracy, purchases Congressmen to enact laws against people having any control over their computers.

So how much?

[philzama]

So how much do I get charged if I hum a tune in my head? Oh Shit, what If I have a dream and its a musical? Damn!

zone alarm

[hex1848]

Glad I use zone alarm. It seems like their is a lot of this "phone home" technology being built into more and more applications. I like knowing whats trying to get in and out of my system and being able to accept or deny it.

Re:zone alarm

[Lussarn]

A personal firewall isn't good enough. If the software who is phoning home disables the firewall you wouldn't notice. A firewall needs to be on it's own secure box.

Re:zone alarm

[e2d2]

I guess it would use the .Disable() method on the exposed zone alarm api?

I also suggest running a firewall on its own box (as I do myself) but disabling a built in firewall would be both difficult(anything is possible though) and possibly illegal. There is no exposed API so they would have to reverse engineer is, thereby opening themselves up to legal action under the DCMA, the very thing they are trying to uphold. Kind of a paradox.

Re:zone alarm

[dnoyeb]

hide? you mean minimize? I don't think so. Their is the task bar...

Re:zone alarm

[Jucius Maximus]

"hope you dont allow web browsers to get through zonealarm. As it has been shown before, a program can open a URL with your default browser, then hide the window before you see it. All sony has to do is put the tracking information in the URL and submit it, bypassing zonealarm."

All you do is when you install a suspicious application, you close of ALL access via the firewall, and then you see what tries to connect via sniffers or firewall logs. If you see the iexplore.exe is unexpectedly trying to connect to a certain IP, then you ban that IP and then open up access to trusted applications again.

Re:zone alarm

[Eccles]

hope you dont allow web browsers to get through zonealarm. As it has been shown before, a program can open a URL with your default browser

That's why I've left Netscape 4 as my default browser. Anything that tries to start a URL triggers the Netscape login screen, and I just exit from that. Highly recommended...

Re:zone alarm

[MrResistor]

Yet another reason to use an external and/or hardware firewall.

Re:zone alarm

[Jucius Maximus]

"Just FYI, you can only do this with the nonfree versions of ZoneAlarm; the free version doesn't have IP blocking, only app-based blocking."

You might want to look into this freeware which was made by the original "Tiny Peronsal Firewall" crew. You can block based on ip, packet type and port.

Re:zone alarm

[jquirke]

The software would need Administrator privileges to do that - and it should not have that. It's surprising how much software requires Administrator privileges that DOES NOT NEED IT.

I'll bet you $10 that hax0rs will crack it

[krog]

...probably within the week. anything that Phones Home can be effectively neutered by changing a few bytes.

Firewall = DMCA violation?

[Mexican]

And how long will it be before blocking their DRM management server in your personal firewall is considered circumventing the DMCA?

Re:Firewall = DMCA violation?

[NKJensen]

That's silly.

The DRM will need the feedback to function.

So... blocking the feedback in the firewall will just make it impossible for you to use the music/film/whatever you "own".

Re:Firewall = DMCA violation?

[RickHunter]

Err... They'd probably be in violation of the PATRIOT act. And you're also in violation of the DMCA for circumventing a "copyright protection technology". Guess the only solution is for the government to ban generic computing devices.

Oh wait...

Sorry, I forgot that they're already planning to do that. My bad.

Re:Firewall = DMCA violation?

[Dutchmaan]

We all *know* it's going to be part of their licensing agreement.

By walking through the store and looking at this package you agree to the following terms.

You allow Sony full access to a listing all of your media materials that can be used with this device. You allow Sony full rights to any information public or private that we deem as important in one way or another. Any thought about getting around this soul binding contract will permit full persecution by the government under which you reside and will persecute you at our request. By agreeing to this contract you agree to plead guilty to any charges brought against you by our company or any of its subsidiaries and pay any damages that we set. You also agree to not speak in a seditious way against our company or any of it's subsidiaries and also agree not to use any competing product or license of any competing company or government.

Re:Firewall = DMCA violation?

[kin_korn_karn]

yet another reason to incorporate yourself.

hmm.

I wonder how many laws you can get around if you do that..

Re:Firewall = DMCA violation?

[valmont]

well lemme ask you this, could you have a machine on your local network "fake" that "feedback protocol" to keep the DRM thing running? well it could very well be localhost. If their DRM thing connects to a host via hostname, and not ip address, then you can easily point that host to 127.0.0.1 in /etc/hosts, and have some local daemon running faking that feedback. mm.

I'm also curious to see what port it's guna do its communication on. I do hope they won't be totally gay and use port 80 to increase their chances at a freely open port.

Re:Firewall = DMCA violation?

[FauxPasIII]

>> "fake" that "feedback protocol" to keep the DRM thing running?

It'll almost definitely use cryptographic checking, so no, you wouldn't be able to fake it any more than you can fake my PGP signature.

Re:Firewall = DMCA violation?

[gilroy]

Blockquoth the poster:

Let's all remember that the DMCA is a law specifying that circumvention of encryption in order to access copyrighted material is a crime.

That sounds nice. A shame it isn't true. The DMCA outlaws the employment of any technology that circumvents "access control mechanisms". It does not specify what constitutes an access control mechanism. If the DRM scheme involves back-authentication to the distributor and you block that, you could conceivably be violating the DMCA.

Now, are you? Is it clear? Of course not. The DMCA is an overly broad and intentionally vague law. Exactly what falls under it has yet to be settled in court -- possibly because the people who might conceivably use the DMCA seem uneager to have it test in court. A properly cynical person might even suspect that they are afraid to have it tested in court and prefer to use the threat of it.

Pot, Kettle, Black

[JohnPM]

It's humerous that one of the biggest Japanese companies is so concerned with intellectual property. The Japanese reputation with regards to Patent enforcement is a model for the anti-Amazon burn-the-patents crowd. This is illustrated by, for example, Texas Instruments getting bent over by Fujitsu in 97.

Re:Pot, Kettle, Black

[beleg777]

Note that they want to sell it. I don't think they are so much concerned with DRM, as they are interested in capatalising on western stupidity.

I think it's time to buy a Gamecube

[floppy ears]

Sony says:

In future, the following capabilities will be required for DRM (Digital Rights Management) in expanding the digital content distribution business. ...
3. Installation not only on PCs, but also on networked devices such as PlayStation 2, AV devices, and mobile devices.

I'm not eager to have Sony keeping track of the games and music I'm playing on my PlayStation. This is a good opportunity for Nintendo to distinguish themselves by embracing freedom.

Re:I think it's time to buy a Gamecube

[nbvb]

This is why I kept my Dreamcast.

What's so special about the PS2/Xbox/GC that the DC doesn't do?

Answer: Nuttin.

And I have all the neat-o accessories for the DC.... the fishing controller, the keyboard & mouse, and the oft-accused-of-being-vapor Broadband Adapter!

Yes, I actually have one. And no, I didn't get it from eBay. I bought it directly from Sega when it was introduced :)

--NBVB

Re:I think it's time to buy a Gamecube

[metlin]

I'm not eager to have Sony keeping track of the games and music I'm playing on my PlayStation. This is a good opportunity for Nintendo to distinguish themselves by embracing freedom.

Unfortunately, little does this have anything to do with 'embracing' freedom or supporting anything that even vaguely resembles it.

It's got everything to do with marketing, and money. Sony is probably testing waters by introducing such DRM "sensitive" devices into all their products. When all the capitalistic forces jump onto the bandwagon (if it works out for Sony), the actions of other companies would be guided by market forces.

Even assuming that Nintendo does take an openview of things and says Go EFF, it'd still not do much good for Nintendo for 2 reasons -

a] The fraction of population that actually understands what Nintendo is trying to do, and buys things to help them do so would be very very small indeed. Besides, it's a good product that sells, based on the needs, immaterial of how laudable your goals are. Look what happened to Loki. They made very good products, and definitely had a great vision. But just that does not suffice in an evergrowing corpy environment.

b] If all the big players take on such measures, then Nintendo will have to follow suit, else they risk being sued/litigated to kingdom come. If some performer claimed that because Nintendo lacked the technology to prevent abuse, people were pirating, Nintendo would be up against the wall.

Also, in the article -

"OpenMG X" flexibly adapts to the distribution of content to PCs, as well as services which distribute content directly to AV and mobile devices.

Now that would be a killer. Because, right now the only people who can actually help you here are the PC Industry manufacturers. As long as they don't stick up an OEM deal to you that voids your hardware if you do not own their "h4xor pr00f 4nt1 p1r4cy" software or something like that, it's good for us. But once you get embedded software onto the ROMs that would do something along the lines of what Sony is suggesting, then the bells start tolling.

Until them, we have some (borrowed?) time.

Re:I think it's time to buy a Gamecube

[13Echo]

I love that machine. My next project is to buy a second one, so that I can tweak Linux and BSD for it (There's no way I would hack up my black ltd. ed. Dreamcast). If you like soldering, you can even add an interface for a NIC and an IDE hard drive.

Dreamcast Projects

Truely, the Dreamcast is one of the greatest little game boxes ever made. In my opinion, it was way ahead of its time, and represents some of the finest engineering ever seen in a game console. Even though the Gamecube and X-Box outpower the little Dreamcast in many way, the little DC could still handle most of today's games without a problem. It will live on as a legend, especially with all of the homebrew DC development that is keeping it alive.

Dreamcast Emulation Page

I'm glad that I still have about 60 games, most of which I still haven't had time to play. :) But when I do get a chance to play my Dreamcast, it usually represents some of the fiest gaming that I have seen for years. It was becoming a perfect mecca of gaming goodness, and yet, most people didn't seem to notice, or care... They were proccupied with hype and name-brands.

Re:I think it's time to buy a Gamecube

[Patrick]

I think it's time to buy a Microsoft X-Box ::ducks::

You say it in jest, but the suggestion is actually apt for the thread at hand. The X-box plays CDs and even allows me to rip them to the internal hard drive and use them as background music while I play games. And Microsoft can't put spyware on it if it's not even plugged into the network.

--Patrick

Re:I think it's time to buy a Gamecube

[dvdeug]

a] The fraction of population that actually understands what Nintendo is trying to do

I think "you're going to have to plug your nintendo into the wall, so it can phone home and check up on you" is something that Joe User can understand and won't like.

Re:I think it's time to buy a Gamecube

[metlin]

Hah! And who's gonna tell them that?

The trouble here is the J.Random user would not really care. Is he really bothered about the DMCA, or does he even know about it? And what is he doing about it? Despite everything that happens, it's always those evil hackers who get the boot.

You'd be surprised by what ppl are ready to give up for that little extra comfort.

Re:I think it's time to buy a Gamecube

[ImaLamer]

Read this

Interesting that Sony paid all the outlets to use shelf space on PSX so PS2 could come out clean...

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[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

How do they know?

[gralem]

Let's say the copyrighted product is a CD or DVD. Well, I can rip either one of those into another format. Let's say I convert it to MP3/DIVX. Then I could convert those formats to OGG/DV formats. By now, there is no way to track where it came from and what content is in the files, right? I mean, in the end all of these systems can be avoided. And if we know they're out there, we just don't buy any more sony computers EVER (or microsoft software or REAL software, etc, etc).

I do not think there is any software that could scan an Ogg Vorbis file and determine at all what song it is. Even if it did that, it could not determine what album it came from (original/CD single/live/greatest hits/various artists version). The whole idea of DRM just drives me crazy!

---gralem

Re:How do they know?

[Neon Spiral Injector]

Everyone is talking about firewalls, and other formats with-out DRM, thinking that blocking the DRM will just allow unlimited access.

This isn't what the corporations want. They want it so the DRM bits must be verified before you can use any media. You firewall the requests, you can't play. You use a non-DRM enabled format your player won't open it.

It may not be at this point yet, but I can see it quickly heading there.

wrong thinking here

[Alcimedes]

man, forget about "disabling" this device, this is exactly what we need!

think about it. all that has to happen is one geek cracks the code. then distribute it. then get a few people together and make a database of all the different codes for different games. end result? get a nice little program that artificially inflates the stats for your favorite games!

forget running SETI of d.net, just run PS stacker in the background, sending of piles of info back to the mothership about how gamers REALLY LOVE BUSHIDO BLADE!!!

at least that's one way to do it. besides, break it entirely and they'll come up with another one. better to tweak it and use it to your advantage.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Spies Like Us

[Myriad]

How is it spyware if they tell you it's sending data to the copyright holder? Isn't spyware supposed to be a bit more subtle than that?

Obviously you've never seen Spies Like Us. I mean they were spies, right, but was there any subtlety? No, I thought not. Don't even get me started on Ishtar...

in case it gets slashdotted...

[unformed]

Announcing "OpenMG X"
- Digital Rights Management and Distribution Technology
-Promoting distribution of digital content which respects copyright-

Tokyo, Japan

Sony Corporation today announced "OpenMG X", a digital rights manag ....

eh, screw it, it's sony, let 'em hurt....

Re:in case it gets slashdotted...

[moncyb]

You forgot to mention that they are already installing this "technology" into all their Vaio computers.

Sony's new DRM scheme

[Greenrider]

Day 1: AIBO received as present

Day 2: AIBO found looking through personal CD collection.

Day 3: AIBO attempts to sabotage my chipped PS2. I reprimand it by frowning sternly and saying "Bad dog" but it just wags its tail and pretends like it doesn't understand.

Day 4: AIBO swallows the laser assembly of my CD burner. Claims it was hungry.

Day 5: AIBO starts leaving little piles of Memory Sticks all over the house.

Day 6: AIBO trashes my RioVolt by trying to mate with it.

Day 7: AIBO returned to store, exchanged for TiVo.

Re:Sony's new DRM scheme

[gregstoll]

Day 9: Start receiving adult advertizements on TiVo when paused.

FUD. You don't get advertisements on TiVo when it's paused (the only advertisements you have to actually select to view).

Branding/Buzzword compliance

[wrinkledshirt]

OpenMG X

Let's see.

Uses a word with benevolent connotations ("Open")... +2 points

Followed up by a small abbreviation that terminates with the "ee" sound... +3 points.

Incorporates X somehow... +4 points.

Fails to use an "e" or "i" prefix... -2 points.

Total:
2 + 3 + 4 - 2 = rights still getting FLUSHED DOWN THE TOI... I mean, 7 points! Good work to everyone involved!

Re:Branding/Buzzword compliance

[DrVxD]

This looks promising as the basis of a new /. moderation system...

Am I missing something here, or is Sony retarded?

[SkipToMyLou]

"OpenMG X consists of the following software modules:
1. An encoding module which adds digital rights management information, such as the number of times content was copied or played, to music/movie content and converts them into code at the distributors' end.
2. A server module which distributes digital rights management information on content to the users' end.
3. Client module for developing application software compatible with "OpenMG X" Sony has put the client module (#3) into practice and created "MAGIQLIP", the network music player for PC."

It sounds like that as long as you don't use the MAGIQLIP software, you're fine. Tell me if I'm missing something here, or they just thought up another half-assed copyright protection scheme.

All you mushy-headed alarmists

[David Wong]

It says RIGHT IN THE RELEASE that:

"This will provide content holders and distributors with the bigger opportunities to widen the ways of secure content distribution to various devices while consumers will enjoy more entertaining and exciting content, which will enlarge and vitalize the entire digital content distribution market."

This will make your movies and music MORE EXCITING AND ENTERTAINING. Say goodbye to Britney and awful Elvis remixes. Say goodbye to slap-together Austin Powers' sequels crammed with product placements. THIS TECHNOLOGY WILL CURE US OF THAT.

I have yet to determine exactly how, but I happen to trust Sony. They told me the PS2 would be 1,000 times more powerful than the PS1, and dammit, we've all seen the results.

Why you guys can't get over your whining and just accept this new more exciting and entertaining future is beyond me.

Re:All you mushy-headed alarmists

[bigmouth_strikes]

For some reason, a press-release with the wording "enlarge and vitalize " sounds familiar to the emails I find in my Junk folder...

Thank you Sony

[Aceticon]

Thank you Sony for once again reminding me why i don't buy Sony products anymore.

Ever since the DCMA controversy started i stopped buying Sony products - any Sony products. I don't care if they're good or bad, geeckish or general consumer, music, video, electronics or whatever - i purposely avoid any and all products from Sony any any company i know is part of the Sony "empire".

I've voted with my wallet - What about YOU?

Re:Thank you Sony

[ShavenYak]

I have thought about this before. If I was to really stick to my guns i would have to boycott all products from damn near every company.

You talk like that would be a bad thing! Honestly, how much stuff could you not live without? Besides, there are still a few companies who aren't such heinous offenders as Sony. There are a bunch of companies I won't buy from (Sony and Disney come to mind), but I still manage to live from day to day, and have plenty of toys to choose from.

The bottom line is that one or two people from slashdot each boycotting their most loathed org (mine is RIAA) is completely ineffective....

Unfortunately that's true, too bad we can't convince the masses of sheeple to do what's good for them (did you see the ending of this week's South Park?). I don't think of what I'm doing as boycotting anyway; that implies some kind of organized effort to get a company to do or not to do something. I just won't patronize companies that I feel are going to use my money for "bad" things. I know I'm not going to change them, but that doesn't mean I should support them.

Re:Thank you Sony

[Russ Steffen]

Ever since the DCMA controversy...

No no no, it's the DMCA. You can remeber it by the old Village People song:

D - M - C - A ( It's fun to violate the )
D - M - C - A ( You'll do more time than Manson )
D - M - C - A!

So we don't like Sony this week?

[goldenfield]

Damn it...I can never keep up!

Sorry guys, but I might have to like them again when the network package for PS2 comes out in a couple weeks. And online Madden 2K3...

Mmmm...Madden...

What?!

[SPYvSPY]

The nintendo gamecube is the only console to *ever* offer a wireless controller that works, and works really, really well. Plus, the basic controller design is perfectly fine and basically equivalent to every other controller. They even have a cool detente at the end of the two shoulder triggers. You need to reduce your crack intake, AC.

Re:What?!

[windex]

I can understand the dreamcast controller being first, analog triggers rock, but the X-box controller is nasty. The N64 was okay, but the PS2/PS1 controller (same damn controller really) is my controller of choice, it has the SNES-controller feel, just as that had the NES controller feel, and since I first started playing video games on an original NES system, I'm partial to that type of control. :)

Just my 2 cents.

Doesn't Sony realize..

[gillbates]

That I'm not going to buy:

• A DRM-restricted PC
• DRM-restricted (copy protected) media - CD's, DVD's, or otherwise.

What corporate america fails to realize is that the value of a CD lies not just in the physical device, but in the ability for the end user to enjoy the content as they see fit - to copy it to their computer, to make mixed CD's, etc... So my question to Sony is this: How do you expect to make money selling a product that nobody wants? Consumers DON'T WANT copy-restricted media or PC's. I, for one, won't be buying any Sony products in the future for fear that I won't be able to copy CD's that I have legimately paid for, or burn CD's of my own "copyrighted" original material.

How long will it be before running an unlicensed, unregistered software program will be illegal? This DRM scheme is just an incremental step in Corporate America's plan to levy a tax on everything done on a PC. Think about this folks - Sony is trying to take away our freedoms. Spend accordingly.

Re:Doesn't Sony realize..

[ryanvm]

Doesn't Sony realize that I'm not going to buy DRM -restricted media. [...] How do you expect to make money selling a product that nobody wants?

Unfortunately not everyone feels the same way that you or I do about copy protection. Hell, it's probably only 3 or 4 percent of people that even understand the issue, and the number of people boycotting media they care about is going to be a fraction of that. How many people do you know that don't rent movies because of MacroVision?

The sad truth is that if 90% (or more) of the population doesn't care about copy protection, the media conglomerates can pretty much implement whatever DRM they want and the consumers will eat it up. And Sony, as a hardware manufacturer and a media outlet, is in a perfect position to do so.

Re:Doesn't Sony realize..

[kin_korn_karn]

and Kohlberg 4 people (i.e. 90% of the world) will feel good because they're doing the "Right Thing" by using hardware that makes sure these wonderful content providers get their rights.

Re:Doesn't Sony realize..

[shumacher]

I sell electronics for a living. I suspect the number of consumers put off by copy protection will increase as use of DVD-video recorders spreads. Most of the people I talk to want the DVD recorder so they can copy all of their store-bought VHS titles to a more permanent medium. Many of these people have copied music freely in the past, and expect to do the same with their movies. Most react poorly when they learn the recorder is designed to not allow those copies.

Making themselves a bitter pill

[ackthpt]

I've been bothered by their proprietary approach to many things, over the past few years (memory stick, absurdly expensive expansion components to their computers, etc.) and was looking at portable LCD Tv's yesterday. Thing is, in my gut, I already flinch at the prospect of buying from Sony for the concern of being locked into something else of theirs where only they sell (due to heavy copyrighting/patenting) and lack of desire to support such a business.

I may just go with Casio. Seems like the strategy has backfired on this wallet.

Re:Making themselves a bitter pill

[cheezedawg]

I'm not sure what you are looking at. Memory sticks are sold by several manufacturers at prices comparable to CompactFlash (which is also a "proprietary" standard). Several companies (including Pioneer off the top of my head) sell devices that use memory sticks. A quick stroll over to memorystick.org will give you all of the specifications of the memory stick that you would want (electrical, physical format, file system, etc).

And what absudrly expensive computer expansion components are you talking about? Aside from the components that proprietary by nature (like docking stations for laptops), you can upgrade Sony computers with any industry standard component.

I don't see Sony's approach any worse or more proprietary than most other companies out there (including Casio).

Re:No real danger...

[bowronch]

If they want to deploy this to "static" platforms like Playstation, then it's going to be one iteration of code. Crack it once, job done, they can hardly force people to upgrade the bios in their consoles etc so there's no real reliable way of auto-deploying a patch.

What if they put it into game discs? Seems like they could auto-deploy it without you ever having any idea about it...

Audio fingerprinting

[yerricde]

I do not think there is any software that could scan an Ogg Vorbis file and determine at all what song it is.

You think wrong. Relatable offers audio fingerprinting technology that creates a hash of an audio clip, which is useful for determining what recording it belongs to. Apparently, Napster was thinking of using it until the service was shut down and converted to a completely opt-in system.

And yes, it may get confused sometimes on cover songs, but that's the whole point: under copyright law, a songwriter is entitled to a royalty for every sale of a CD containing his or her copyrighted work.

Sayanora, Playstation!

[superdan2k]

It seems like no one, not even Sony, learned the lessons of the DIVX player -- no one wants to be spied on in their own home, making use of products that they own.

I don't know if I'll be keeping my Playstation 2 (with LAN adapter) or even buying a PS3 now. If I do, I'll certainly be tweaking the firewall a bit, because, frankly, it's none of Sony's business how I make use of my hardware.

If we were to compare consumer electronics to automobiles, it would be illegal for me to swap out the fuel injector chip in my car, to install a better air filter, or put a different brand of tires on it when the old ones needed replacing. Hell, it would require me to buy a whole new car when the tires went bald. Of course, laws like this might not be bad -- we'd get all those kids and their "race-ready" Civics and Tiburons off the fucking street. (I, for one, cringe at the sound of a 4-cylinder with a modified exhaust system. And those "carrying handle" spoilers ruining a perfectly nice-looking Mitsubishi Eclipse are just a fucking eyesore.)

Anyway, the point being, if Sony thinks they can ram this down people's throats, they're in for a rude shock. It's bad enough that a game costs $50 -- even a year after it's been released, but now they're demanding to know how often you play it? Gimme a break.

The social effect of this, I think is going to turn the neighborhood computer geek into the equivelent of the neighborhood car mechanic, circa 1930 -- the stuff's going to get so complicated that Joe Average isn't going to be able to make the modifications he wants, so he'll go to the neighborhood expert...and in exchange for some work, the expert gets some extra cash, food, beer, sex, or whatever.

You know what, Sony? Bring that shit on. There's a hot lesbian couple down the block that I'd love to get between. Heh.

I love it. They're digging their own hole.

[mesozoic]

Companies come out with competing DRM technologies. The industry will become clogged with this stuff, because they all think they're going to get rich if they make _their_ DRM the industry standard.

Meanwhile, as DRM-enabled hardware starts making its way onto the market, consumers become aware of what's going on. News.com, NYT, WSJ, all the major media outlets start talking about how these new technology devices won't let you do things your old ones did. We're not just talking about PCs anymore, but DVD players, CD players, MP3 players, televisions, everything.

Consumers say, "Screw that, I don't want disabled junk." A year or two passes, the market for DRM-enabled technology is totally saturated, and nobody's buying. People hold on to their old stuff. Sales plummet. Whoops.

Meanwhile, pirates continue to find ways to circumvent copyrights. Sales keep dropping. The Supreme Court eventually shoots down key parts of the DMCA--and the DMCA is so screwy, this isn't a matter of if, but when--and suddenly we're allowed to _legally_ circumvent copyrights. Bye-bye DRM.

Honestly, I don't think this sort of technology has any chance for long-term survival. All the advertising might and political influence in the world cannot defeat a marketplace full of frustrated consumers.

Well, there's no way THAT could fail.

[Mirk]

This from the press release itself:

With this technology, the usage conditions for content can be controlled from the distributor's end and hence, content distribution can be secured from the beginning to the end of the service.

By ``end of the service'' here, they clearly mean ``the moment that just one of the multitude of clued-up and highly motivated hackers out there cracks the protection and puts an unecrypted copy on a P2P network''.

Ah, you gotta hand it to Sony. They have learned the lesson well: that you can always solve IPR problems with technology.

Next week: Sony Announce New Initiative To Improve Morality By Legislation.

The week after: Sony Announce New Initiative To End World Hunger By Telling People To Be Nicer.

These are all great ideas.

Prior art

[Bazzargh]

Cartman: Okay, that's does it! Now listen! Why is it that everything today has involved things either going in or coming out of my ass?! [Farts. An anal probe comes out of his butt and expands] I'm sick of it! It's completely immature.
Stan: Hey, it's happening again. [the probe is now a large satellite dish]
Kyle: Whoa, look at that.
Stan: Now, do you believe this, Cartman?
Cartman: You guys can't scare me! I know you're making it all up.
Stan: Cartman, there's a 80-foot satellite dish sticking out of your ass!
Cartman: Sure, you guys, what-ever. [the dish sends a radio signal out to space]

Perverted Habits

[clickety6]

Oh shit - now the whole world will find out that I spend 8 hours every night playing "Mary Kate & Ashley Olsen Magical Mystery Mall" on my playstation! Arrgghhh!!!

Re:Time to get some nice ANALOG gear

[AJWM]

Ultimately, the sound still has to become analog before you can hear it. (This may change in the future I'm sure)

Yeah, everyone will be required to have cochlear implants that take a digital signal.

And they're getting closer with retinal implants to handle the video side of things, too...

Sony Japan contact

[lunenburg]

If you'd like to contact Sony Japan, this form appears to be a good place to start.

Remember - be polite and direct in telling them that you will not support technology that negates the rights of the customer.

Heaven forbid you actually PAY for something!

[simetra]

Sure, it's nice to hop on the Evil Companies bandwagon, but really.... why should everything be free? What if you ran a company? Would you give your product away? If you don't like it, don't buy it. If you do like it, buy it. Don't like asparagus? Don't buy it. Do like grapes? Buy them, don't shoplift them.

As for privacy, so what? What if Sony finds out that you listen to Neil Diamond's greatest hits 10 times a day? What are they going to do, haul you into a dungeon and torture you? Are they going to take out a full-page ad in the NY Times, proclaiming that Joe-LOTR-Geek-Smith listens to Neil Diamond 10 times a day?

I don't like this either, but how about a reality check every now and then?

Re:Heaven forbid you actually PAY for something!

[simetra]

I find this hard to believe. Surely, if you create music, whatever spyware's running will be able to tell that there's no copyright on it. And/or, you'll be able to "sign" something with your own copyright/certificate.

Re:Heaven forbid you actually PAY for something!

[datarat]

Good Grief. Why does everyone always assume that it's all about getting something for free?

It's about control of your information. Suppose I rip a CD that I've purchased so that I can listen to it on my mp3 player.

2 years later I'm interviewing for a job and I'm told that because I have a history of duplicating intellectual property I can't be hired.

Sure, it sounds unlikely, but it only takes a little digging to find some dirt, and the more dirt exists the easier it is to find.

If I wanted everyone to know what I was doing all the time I'd be blogging.

Re:Heaven forbid you actually PAY for something!

[Steve B]

I find this hard to believe. Surely, if you create music, whatever spyware's running will be able to tell that there's no copyright on it.

For the incumbent entertainment industry, obstructing the ability to create and distribute one's own content is a feature, not a bug.

Re:Heaven forbid you actually PAY for something!

[Carmody]

"As for privacy, so what? What if Sony finds out that you listen to Neil Diamond's greatest hits 10 times a day? What are they going to do, haul you into a dungeon and torture you? Are they going to take out a full-page ad in the NY Times, proclaiming that Joe-LOTR-Geek-Smith listens to Neil Diamond 10 times a day?"

A fair enough question, and one that many people don't understand the answer to.

Here is "so what:"
(1) I don't have to justify my want for privacy. You have to justify your taking it away from me. I don't want Sony to find out that I listen to Neil Diamond. That's all the justification I need to give.

(2) I have a question for you, Simetra. How many times have you masturbated in the last month. How many orgasms have you had? What does your wife or girlfriend look like when she climaxes... does she grimace or smile? Please tell me and all of slashdot. Go ahead and tell - we're not going to haul you into a dungeon and torture you. Or do you think that its just none of my business?

(3) Profiling: One of the current trends in "profiling" is to ignore causation and emphasize correlation. For example, in order to get some jobs, you have to take a "personality test" and the answers you give are translated to a chance you will commit employee theft. Some of the questions are hardly relevant (most, actually) but they have found that "I like chocolate" people are three times more likely to rob than "I like strawberry" people. Nobody, not even the psychatrists, are claiming causation- they don't need to.

The United States is now requiring many data-gathering places (like libraries) to turn over their data so they can test for "potential terrorists." If it turns out that the music you like is also liked by the White Christians who were responsible for the Oklahoma City bombing, you may find yourself on a list you don't like. It seems farfetched... but it is not. And even if you think that it is a farfetched idea, it is not for you to make that call for me.

I have the right to privacy.

Re:Heaven forbid you actually PAY for something!

[simetra]

One thing the paranoid continually forgets/ignores is that THEY are US.

Re:Heaven forbid you actually PAY for something!

[Raphael]

I hope that someone will moderate you up because your comment is interesting, even if I disagree with it.

You are right about the fact that some people deserve to be paid for their work. Let's skip the debate about whether the price of CDs and DVDs is right or whether the publishers reward the artists correctly. In the end, we (the consumers) should pay for the content that we would like to listen to or watch. If the artist or publisher did not intend to distribute their work for free, then copying it from someone else is stealing, plain and simple. This is wrong and should be prevented or punished appropriately. So I fully agree with you on that part.

But there are many problems in the technical implementation and in the privacy risks associated with this DRM method (and most others).

Here is an example: if I read the description correctly, OpenMG X requires the player to exchange some information with a server in order to allow the content to be played. Do you remember DivX? Not the video codec, but the company that tried to rent encrypted discs and is now dead. If the company goes bust, then the players cannot contact the server and you would probably not be able to play the content that you paid for.

I also expect some problems if I would like to listen to the music or watch the video while I am sitting in a plane with my laptop or in some remote area from which I cannot connect to the server.

Also, as noted by many others, there are many copies that are not illegal. The protection scheme will probably allow some of them (maybe only one copy to another protected device) but will not allow all of the copies that would normally be considered as "fair use". I buy lots of CDs but I always make a copy of them if I want to listen to them in my car (otherwise they could be damaged by heat or dust). I also encode them as Ogg or MP3 if I want to listen to them on my laptop (because carrying the CDs when I travel is not very convenient). Note that only one of these copies is used at a given time. I bet that most of these copies would not be possible with this protected content. So if OpenMG X is successful and if in the future most of the content is protected or if the "best stuff" is only released with OpenMG X protection (or released first in that format and much later in some unprotected format), then my choices as a consumer would be significantly limited. I know that these reasons are often used by freeloaders who shout "fair use rights" whenever they are afraid that they would have to pay for the stuff that they are getting for free from their friends, but believe me: I'm not one of them and I am really concerned about the choices that would be available to me in the future.

Regarding the privacy risks, you do not have to be paranoid to imagine some of the things that could be done with your listening habits or with the "criminal record" listing the the number of times that you attempted to copy something. Beyond the marketing tricks (more junk mail or e-mail about "related products" that I am not interested in) there could be some issues if your personal data is not suitably protected or if it is incorrect because someone else used your equipment. Imagine, for example, that a friend of yours uses your player while you are not there and attempts to copy some content that you bought. He will not be able to do it (e.g., because the owner of the target device would not be the same as the owner of the content) but this attempt may be logged. If this happens several times, you could be blacklisted and later you would not be able to play your music anymore. This could happen if all devices or content could be linked to their "owner" (correctly or not).

You can also think about what could happen to your personal data if the company that owns the server does not protect it correctly. Or if the management of the company changes or if it is bought by another company. Do you want a future employer to know that you have been listening to or viewing some things that are not politically correct?

There are many other risks and problems associated with this and other DRM methods, but I should probably stop here because this comment is getting a bit long already...

Re:Heaven forbid you actually PAY for something!

[Shelled]

You're dreaming. THEY don't consider YOU one of THEM. The leaders of the most evil political parties of the last century all arose from the general population. A shared background is irrelevant.

Hitler and IP

[wytcld]

You might think that Hitler, who got elected with the financial support of big business (while in the US, Henry Ford was a major fan too), wouldn't have resorted to intellectual property to meet his need to acquire vast wealth. Not only did he earn millions in royalties from Mein Kampf, but he got a share in the proceeds from sales of photos of him by his official photographer, on whose behalf he extended the copyright law, showing that there's more than one mousey little guy with an appreciation of the value of his image!

Perhaps if Sony technology had been in place, he would have gained enough through IP control to have been satiated, and not forced take extreme measures to try to make the world a better place through his policy of regime change in neighboring lands.
___

Re:Hitler and IP

[Rayonic]

Sorry, dude. I invoke Godwin's Law.

You lose. ;-)

Re:Hitler and IP

[LarsWestergren]

I believe that in the beginning, Godwin's law didn't refer to something as immature as "winning" or "losing" an argument, it just said that when a discussion had reached the point when the participants starts to call each other nazis, there is nothing of value left in the thread so it should be abandoned for a more rational discussion. You commie. ;-)

Solution?

[dasheiff]

Stay Offline?

You mean they have been holding back?

[Frobnicator]

From the article: consumers will enjoy more entertaining and exciting content, which will enlarge and vitalize the entire digital content distribution market.

This implies that they have been capable of putting out better trash than they have now (probably true, most films aren't worth $7 per person right now) but that somehow, adding DRM to boxes will magically make movies better.

HA!

Re:Screw spoofing - rip the stream

[renehollan]

That presumes that you can get to the unencrypted stream. Sampling an analog version might be feasable, but increasingly, the analog outputs of devices have crippled resolution, and future legislation may forbid them all together.

Re:Now is the time for all good people...

[AntiNorm]

/. is well on their way to accomplishing that every single time they shell out for the PS2 Linux kit.

Not to mention every time they post another story praising the last MPAA-sponsored movie.

Inform

[t_allardyce]

You could block this with a firewall, but then Sony could counter-attack by hiding the signal on the back of something else.. On the whole these companies are only telling us what they're doing in the small print which no-one reads. Most people I know haven't a clue about DRM or whats going on with it. Its (usually) perfectly legal to do what they are doing, and illigal to by-pass it. More of the general population needs to be aware of whats really going on, and that the corporations are shafting them behind their backs. Posting on /. is preaching to the converted. The internet is supposed to be the big medium for mass communication to enlighten the masses, but everyone is still in the dark..

Magic Gate by Sony

[dfenstrate]

Does anyone how successful Sony's MagicGate technology has been?

Is anyone actually buying it? Has it been defeated yet? Though that might require substantial modification to the hardware involved....

EULA

[www.sorehands.com]

No, the first version will not do this. What they will do, is leave a huge security hole and some big bugs. Then when you download the update, you will have to agree to being spyed on or have every script kiddie break into your device.

Re:Am I missing something here, or is Sony retarde

[Raphael]

It sounds like that as long as you don't use the MAGIQLIP software, you're fine.

Almost. The problem is: if you are not using the MAGIQLIP software, then you will not be able to listen to the music at all.

Tell me if I'm missing something here,
or they just thought up another half-assed copyright protection scheme.

Well, you will probably be missing the music. All this DRM stuff only makes sense if the the content is distributed is some encrypted format, in order to ensure that it is only possible to play it with software or devices that are DRM-enabled. Although I haven't seen it, I assume that this MAGIQLIP software is designed to play some files that have been encrypted, and the decryption key is only available if the player can validate your credentials by contacting Sony's server.

So if you do not use their software or if the software cannot communicate with Sony's server (e.g., because you are not connected to the Internet or because you are using a firewall), then you cannot listen to the music.

Vote With Your Money

[zentec]

Ok geeks, here's the deal.

You can deal with this by moaning online, or you can organize a grassroots effort to let the media companies know that you simply will not tolerate this. That means you simply do not buy their "stuff" on the general principle that they are pissing you off.

No CDs, no movies, no DVDs, nothing. If everyone gets involved, they'll get the concept that the consumers are tired of their nonsense and indeed are not the sheep they are purported to be.

Re:Vote With Your Money

[PhxBlue]

Actually, we can do both; and we can do them at the same time. While I'm not technically moaning, I online and talking about Sony's latest stunt--and simultaneously I am buying absolutely nothing from Sony. Amazing!

Re:Let me save you the trouble...

[pi radians]

You dirty motherfucker. You purchase a PS2 (no emulation involved, so obviously you or someone else spent somewhere beteen $199-$299 for the console), but you pirate GTA3 -- a game by Rockstar studios.

From you stupidity, Sony gains money. Rockstar loses money.

Asshole. If you cause GTA Vice City/GTA4 to be cancelled due to lack of revenues, I'll find where you live, run a fucking tank through your house, torch you with a flamethrower, then screw your mom in the back of my Stallion.

Sony loses money on every PS2 bought. The rest of your post is pretty damn humourous. (I know this will eventually be modded down and another chunk of my karma will be lost forever, but this AC post should be enjoyed by all)

Re:Screw spoofing - rip the stream

[gaudior]

... future legislation ...

As in, the FCC requires digital tuners in TV's. And so the Hollywood Cabal shoehorns in DRM into those tuners, which Sony will have NO problem doing. They are already lobbying for embedded DRM, and Microsoft and Intel are helping with Palladium.

Re:Hack it counter-intuitively...

[Sylver Dragon]

No, the real question is, how do I hack this thing so that is sends 50,000 packets with the same information. Or, better yet, send 5 million random pieces of information. Really, the only thing you do when you send them such obvious junk data is get it filtered out. The better thing to do is create a nice distributed type program (ala SETI@Home) that sends a continuious stream of junk data that looks genuine. It would be better to just increse the amount of data sent to them, rather than decrese it. If you decrese it, it helps keep the data they are getting pure, but if you artificially increse it, you can generate such a low signal to noise ratio that the data is useless.

Hospital gown

[moncyb]

Don't forget, they'll also have a webcam pointed at your backside and broadcast those pictures all over the internet. Have a nice day. ;-)

Re:hmmm... let me make sure I understand

[gaudior]

I always wondered where the Zik-Zak Corporation came from. Now I know. At the heart of Zik-Zak, there is a little Sony.

Employers want it!

[moncyb]

A data mining company will probably buy it.

Maybe you'll get lucky and your employer will buy this info from the data mining company. I can see the headlines now: "Man gets sued for sexual harrasment in the workplace because he viewed a video at home"

This is not a good thing. What if employers use this info to screen potential employees?

Re:Employers want it!

[RollingThunder]

You mean like the way one of the very senior Pacific operations officers got raked over the coals in the Canadian Navy a bit ago?

He was being called to officiate in an investigation about viewing 'net porn on military systems (in the workplace), and said "I can't. I have done similar things and my judgement is suspect." - but what he did was pretty freaking minor and not all that similar.

Using a naval laptop, he was at his own off-base home, using his own private internet account, and viewed porn.

Nothing tracable to the Navy, frankly - and a bunch of the local loons started goign off how "every single woman under his command is at dire risk!"

Your headline is far, far too plausible. :(

Re:Employers want it!

[moncyb]

Are you a total dumbass?

Read this story and the one titled "Big Brother's Pizza Delivery", then get a clue.

If your IQ is over ten and you know anything about how real businesses operate, you may figure it out. Judging from your post, I don't think you'll make either requirement...

Re:Now is the time for all good people...

[MsGeek]

To Hell with all that...Slashdot is notorious for praising Sony to the heavens every time they make another slick, kawaii device/laptop/whatever. Sony has always been pro-DRM, anti-consumer.

I said it before, I'll say it again...screw Sony. I don't buy their stuff, and I also tell my friends not to as well. I am so fucking pissed that they are the people distributing "Dogtown & Z-Boyz"...I'm gonna have to wait for used DT&Z-B DVDs to arrive at Half.Com before I can own a copy.

Re:Screw spoofing - rip the stream

[renehollan]

Though that by itself does not prohibit the presense of existing analog tuners, the writing is certainly on the wall, yes.

Sure you can. You have both keys.

[nyet]

Cryptography is not designed for this sort of thing.

It is designed to let two trusted parties communicate w/o a third either snarfing data or pretending to be one of the trusted parties.

The problem is, both ends are not trusted in ANY DRM scheme, which is what makes DRM a pipe dream.

Re:I love it. They're digging their own hole.

[MrResistor]

Yeah!!!

Just like what happened to Macrovision!!!

Oh, wait...

SO please get to it and do it quick

[Archfeld]

because the EU, GB, and Australia are all gonna honor the DMCA in accordance with international treaty. If you happen to live in a country with cojones, I'm jealous, I wish I did too, but for the rest of us, violating this law ensures you'll be looking over your shoulder for a long time or not traveling :(

Re:Let me save you the trouble...

[Entropy_ah]

This is a myth. The X-Box is the only modern console (X-Box, PS2, Gamecube) that looses money on every unit sold.

pffft, Nintendo's just as bad

[Perianwyr Stormcrow]

You're talking about the company that used an authentication chip to control who could make games for the NES, and then sued Tengen when they reverse engineered it to make their own games.

Nintendo would very much like a return to those days of dominance.

So. . . .

[Com2Kid]

Console able to play DVDs, Sony Good;

Introduces memory stick format with content control, Sony Bad;

Releases some developers manuals and a Linux Dev kit for their Console, Sony Good;

Rolls out Spyware/DRM system, Sony Bad;

I'm confused!

Oh wait, I am a Nintendo Guy anyway, PSX1/2 suck, buy Nintendo bizzzzzotch!

Yah, err, uh. So basically what little good Sony /has/ done is in relationship to their Console biz (big whoop) and has otherwise continually screwed people over in standard big business fashion?

Nice to know we have that all straightened out.

Read between the lines

[IIRCAFAIKIANAL]

From the article: consumers will enjoy more entertaining and exciting content, which will enlarge and vitalize the entire digital content distribution market. I think it means that they will be able to tell what people really like and make more of the same. Which means that those of us that don't match middle-america tastes are fucked.

Simple answer.

[3am]

DON'T BUY ANYTHING PROTECTED BY SONY'S DRM TECHNOLOGY.

It's so easy, if you don't want it, don't pay for it. Go rant about how you have the right to privacy, but you have no constitutionally protected right to rent movies or buy music. And I don't see how you have any right to tell someone else how to do business.

Re:Simple answer.

[Carmody]

It's so easy, if you don't want it, don't pay for it. Go rant about how you have the right to privacy, but you have no constitutionally protected right to rent movies or buy music. And I don't see how you have any right to tell someone else how to do business.

I agree with you completely. A very specific question was asked, and I gave the best answer I could. I did not say that I had the right to tell someone else how to do business. Nor do I have the right to expect you to read a thread carefully.

Re:Thanks

[homer_ca]

Sony has proven themselves time and time again deserving of a permanent boycott, but no matter how much I tell my friends to avoid Sony, they still end up drooling over whatever cool shit Sony puts out (Clie, Vaio, PS2).

Even ignoring the political issues of a boycott, their products are just not worth buying. They have good design (cool cases and good UIs), and their CRTs do look good, but their quality has gone downhill in the last 20 yrs (ask a TV repair shop if you don't believe me). It breaks just as often as the cheaper stuff, and sometimes more often (ask a Vaio laptop owner).

Recipe for **AA self-destruction

[markmoss]

1) Buy the Sony game with included spyware.

2) Write a script to attempt to copy it once a minute. (DO NOT test it unless physically unplugged from the internet.)

3) Hack the MPAA, RIAA, etc., servers and upload the game and the script. (You may have to ask your fellow hackers to please stop DOS'ing them for a while, but as clueless as these people seem to be, breaking in ought to be easy.)

4) Wait for Sony to look at the logs and send out their teams of trained attack lawyers...

Disclaimer: This is a joke. I'm not advocating anyone do anything illegal like breaking into evil organizationss' computers and illegally copying software there-to. Really I'm not. Really...

Service?

[be-fan]

Since when is content a fucking service? Content is a product. It may be a low-brow product (like anything on FOX or toilet bowl cleaner) or a high-brow product (like jewelery) but it is still a product. I can hug it and cuddle it or stomp it into the dirt if I want to. Now, if it was a service, things would be different. I don't encourage you to hug or cuddle or stomp on your maid. But it's not. Its a product, and once I've forked over the $50 or whatever it costs its mine.

ip_nat_drm.o

[ajs]

I can't wait for the Linux kernel module that listens for this things traffic, DNATs the connection to itself, forges the correct "you can view" responses and then SNATs back a response... Once the DRM software is reverse engineered, the nat module (or DRM proxy, if you will) should be a very quick hack.

"As for Privacy, So What?"... farging iceholes!

[tlambert]

"What if Sony finds out that you listen to Neil Diamond's greatest hits 10 times a day? What are they going to do, haul you into a dungeon and torture you?"

No. They are going to torture me in situ. Saves on the transport costs.

The are going to fricking SPAM the crap out of me every time a new album by an artist for who I own one disc comes out, and then once a week after that for the rest of my fricking life, until they see I've bought the damned thing by way of my player reporting the fact to them.

This will happen, even if the original disc was a present, and I played it *one time*, just to be polite.

If I play something multiple times, then every time before the player is willing to play the disc I already own, it's going to play a K-TEL commercial for the new disc or "if you like Bob Marley, you'll LOVE Jimmy Cliff!" or *whatever*.

Every time I pick up my Sony cordless phone, it's going to complain that I haven't called my mother in a while, would I please press "*" now, so that they can connect me "using their honorable partner MCI's new, cheaper long distance service". Only after three repetitions of this will I get a dialtone and be able to use my phone to call who I wanted to call in the first place.

If I don't buy anything from them in a while, they'll mark me "inactive" in their database, which means that I'm not making them money, so they will feel free to capitalize on the information by selling it; after all, if I'm not "loyal" to their brand, why shouldn't they turn the information they have into money some other way, since there's no risk of them offending me into not buyinf from them -- I'm already not buying from them?

The *ONLY* benefit to consumers in this case is that they *WON'T* SPAM me about things I already own.

Unless they are about to release a new album by an artist whose disc I haven't played in a while, in which case they'll remind me to play the thing to "prime the pump" so I'll be more likely to buy the new one.

Until they figure out how to convert everything to "pay per listen", at which point, they will SPAM me for *everything*, ALL THE FREAKING TIME, FOR THE REST OF MY SHORT, MISERABLE LIFE!

And as I lay DYING in my bathtub, the BLOOD running from my GINSU(tm)-KNIFE-SLITTED WRISTS,
finally escaping this horror... the Sony shower radio will come on and try to sell me MR. SPARKLE cleanser for my bathtub that is guaranteed to get out the blood stains I'm likely to leave.

AAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!

-- Terry

Re:I HAVE already payed for the right to make copi

[Daetrin]

Here's a cluehammer: he didn't say copying it for himself, he said copying it _from someone else._ Which as you yourself said, "copying something for someone else is illegal"

He then goes on at great length about how personal copies are perfectly legal and okay.

PKI only helps if...

[ebyrob]

You're dealing with a trusted party.

Since "the consumer in general" isn't trusted, all DRM will eventually fail. PKI isn't a silver bullet, as a viewer of conent the only thing I need to be able to decrypt is the movie I want to watch. If I need Sony's private key for that then it's not a very "private" key is it?

Sure, Sony can put a unique private key in each player, but how well do you really think the private key inside that player can be protected? We've already established it can't be protected as software on a PC. The challenge of "key hidden in hardware" hasn't been pushed all the way yet, but early indications are this only makes it more difficult, not impossible.

It only takes one decryptor to "open" a whole lot of content, especially if content is simple. This is why the DRM initiatives are so Draconian and against allowing any "open" content at all. If your PC won't play any open content without major mods, they might keep many consumers out of the market for "open" goods. (look at game consoles for an example of this)

Solution!!

[Reziac]

I have a solution:

1) Copy the original *once*. Put the original back in its box. Never look at it again.

2) Massage the copy as needful until it behaves itself and stops crying to mama every time you look at it.

3) View this final copy as often as you please.

Re:I HAVE already payed for the right to make copi

[Daetrin]

That's mostly irrelevant to the issue being discussed above. We weren't talking about the actions the RIAA has taken or what the RIAA wants us to believe is illegal, we were talking about whether copying music from someone else is illegal.

The RIAA is starting from something that most people would agree is wrong, everyone listening to the work of an artist, but the artist getting zero compensation for it, and then blow it so far out of proportion and stretch it to cover so many things that no one would believe that one has anything to do with the other, except for the paid politicians of course.