Slashdot Mirror
UK Prepares Own Version of the DMCA
philkerr writes "I've just been informed by the UK Patent Office, below, that the EUCD (European Union Copyright Directive, the equivalent EU legislation to the DMCA) consultation paper has been released. It's important that we give feedback to the UK government that this legislation will have a chilling effect on the software industry." NTK has a few choice words on the subject as well. We've done several articles on the EUCD before, and Alan Cox has been campaigning against it, but it appears that the fix is in: Europe is going to get DMCA-like laws implemented in each nation by the end of 2002.
More copyright crap, eh? Ah well. Ease your mind. Pretend each bad guy is a lawyer.
I'm waiting for the chilling effect. So far I've kept nice and cosy with the DMCA around. Now, the mandatory DRM and encryption stuff for computers is chilling, but the DMCA just sucks a little.
This development is, IMHO, a very interesting follow-up to this posting about an article on the Register.
A hack is just an idiom waiting for wider use.
Could a European more familiar with EU laws comment on this?
http://saveie6.com/
Cool; Now Europe can have a version of the DMCA for there own private version of the internet. I always knew deep down inside they envied the US.
I think its time to move to a new country now. Anyone else up for buying a island somewhere and declaring it a independant state? At least tehn we could have a actual say in what laws we live under.
Well if it does become implemented, it'll take a while longer for the Police and Courts to catch on, especially in light of how they enforce the current RIP bill (Jack Straw's little ugly baby).
If I remember rightly, in Computer Weekly stories were coming through of how the Police would come into a company and virtually request 'the internet', them not knowing they were enforcing... giving a whole new meaning to "'ello 'ello 'ello, wot's goin on 'ere then?"
Time will tell I suppose.
Are you local? There's nothing for you here!
The same European patent office employee who got his iterview pulled from /.
Overrated / Underrated : Moderation
all of those wankers who won't travel to the USA because of the DMCA are now screwed at home. Ha, well enjoy sunny China,Africa, or South America. It will be interesting to see them stick to their high and mightly morals and actually move.
I don't mean to troll but the British and Australians have such draconian human rights violations that I say that we shouldn't give too much attention to something this minor. They have already sealed their fate, people, so let the few escape now and watch Orwell's vision fulfill itself.
If the EU is so eager to follow the laws of the US despite all the obvious flaws, then the US should give them some starter tips as a gesture of goodwill. Someone send them a fat guy to sue the fast food companies.
I moderate "-1, Fool"
I wonder if this explains why John Savage was forced to pull back his Slashdot interview.
Remember that in 1984, the main character believed that a true revolution against an evil government could not be started by a small gang of intellectuals, but that it would have to be the 'dumb masses' (known as the 'proles') who could summon the power to do it?
To be honest, I can't see the point in fighting this. It's a bad way to go, sure, but a fistful of academics and computer scientists isn't going to sway the supposed 'ideals' of modern government. Keeping track of citizens is seen to be a good thing, and the only way we can stop governments bringing in draconian laws like these is to get millions of *common people* to rebel against it.
This isn't going to happen. I've had discussions with people, and asked them what they thought about losing their privacy, and they generally believe that if you're doing nothing wrong, then who cares?
The proles are useless, and they are not going to help in this fight. Stupid laws like the DMCA, IR35, RIP, terrorist Acts, will continue to pass through while governments preach that they'll improve your security.
Sure, they might improve security, but for every bit of assured security you gain, you lose a bit of assured freedom too.
mogorific carpentry experiments
So is Alan Cox going to boycott EU conferences too? Are non-EU software engineers unsafe in EU nations? Maybe Alan needs to move to Taiwan or some place like that, where copyright laws are very lax. Or maybe he just needs to admit that his whole resignation deal was to push his political agenda (which is perfectly fine), not that he truly believed that he would be in danger if he came to the US.
Right then, it is quite the bloody pisser when me mate buggers me in the boot, wot? Fish and chip, mate, bugger me silly.
If you're in a race, you don't want to be the only one who shoots himself in the foot. It's good to see that the Europeans are going to nobly handicap themselves to match our stupid mistake.
That's nice. We've let countries get into a game of one-upsmanship over the strictness of their fair-use-prevention laws, and they're not even going to let their citizens have a say in the process. What do we do when we wake up in 2003 and find it's 1984?
The amusing thing, of course, being that NTK occasionally brings down little sites. Guess the medium fish eat the little fish, and are in turn eaten by the big fish, until /. jumps in the pond and splashes out all the other fish.
It will be interesting to see them stick to their high and mightly morals and actually move.
;-) but it's currently overstaffed.
:-(
Your sarcasm is well put, and you're right.
Every time there's a 'crisis' or an 'injustice' of some sort in the UK, you end up with numerous celebrities and public figures bleating on about how they'll 'leave the country' if such-and-such happens.. AND THEY NEVER DO!
I remember that thousands of contractors were going to leave the country when IR35 came into force, and they didn't. If they did, there'd still be a contracting industry in the UK
Perhaps people WOULD change countries if it was an easy thing to do. I want to move to the USA, but you can bet sure as hell that they won't let me! I'm stuck in the UK till I get a degree, to the front of the visa queue, or come into $500k I can invest over there
mogorific carpentry experiments
So the U.K. decides to implement this law, eh? Well, they dind't play along with the Euro initiative, I just hope we don't play along with the limeys here.
Blair may spew about european unity all he likes, the UK still has pounds sterling, while almost everybody else has the euro.
Good thing publicly protesting and picketing actually has value here in Europe. If a law like this _ever_ appears in my country, you betcha I'll be inside the 'Binnenhof' with a large picket sign and a bunch of flyers. That way one actually has a chance of talking to a politician and conveying your opinions directly to them. Beats sending a letter to your rep anytime, that. At least you can call that person names in his/her face if he/she decides to ignore you. :)
The UK gov can keep their island mentality. As long as they don't bother us mainlanders with it .
Very interesting point. I'm not sure if that justifies not attempting to oppose the legislation though (but I doubt that's your intended point).
Actually, instead of 1984, I was thinking of "Atlas Shrugged" where the one washington scientist points out the Rearden that the laws which had been passed were not intended to be followed, but passed with the intention that people would not be able to continue unless they broke them, thus putting everyone in the power of those who pass and control the laws.
Who said Freedom was Fair?
For all you cynics out there that think you can't do anything to stop this:
1) The UK Patent Office undertook a consultation exercise into extending European patent law to cover software and business methods in the same way as in the US. They only had 285 responses - 241 individuals and 44 organisations. See their conclusions from the exercise. In particular:
"To extend patentability so that these developers have to divert time and effort into making sure they are not infringing patents, and seeking and enforcing them, would impose a major burden. The necessary case for believing that a significant extension of patentability would increase innovation in this field simply has not been made. In fact, as many respondents suggested, it could have the opposite effect."
They will have an influence on the European patent office. Other influences may prove stronger - the battle is not yet over.
2) A couple of months ago, the government in the UK was planning on making everyone's phone records (including mobile phone location data) and internet data (URLs visited and emails sent and received (header details, I think - not sure) available to many government departments, local councils and even private utility companies. There was a large outcry here. People were encouraged to fax and write to their MPs. What happened? The legislation was withdrawn, and the minister responsible, David Blunkett (a SENIOR government minister) even apologised about it.
Yes, these ARE different issues. But when a change in the law like this is being proposed, if you go about it in the correct manner you can have a (small) influence on what happens. If enough people get involved, you can have a major influence.
Now it's useless to avoid going to the USA. We're equally screwed over here so we might as well leave for a country that at least gets its act together economically. Freedom would have been nice, but hey, you can't have everything, can you? Fuck it, I want enough money to buy my own government, too.
The land of the free(who can't copy anything freely).
I never spellcheck and I freely admit it. Save your karma for more worthwhile "lol erorrs" replies
It goes even further than the US DMCA, in that it EXPLICITLY makes publishing information (not just code) for circumventing copy protection illegal. Guess without a 1st amendment, they didn't have to pussyfoot around.
.. and an explanation of the law, they'll be silenced by their supervisors.
MjM
XKCD:Xeric Knowledge Comically Dispen
We've got a Brit loon telling us how fsked we are for having the DMCA and another Brit loon gvmt agency pushing for their own DMCA. Get all your shit in one basket please!
"Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
Wasn't Bill Thompson writing just today in The Register that Europe should have its own private Internet due to the U.S. lawmakers and politicians' abuse of the net?
Maybe the U.S. doesn't have a monopoly on this kind of thing.
or maybe Aynica
MjM
XKCD:Xeric Knowledge Comically Dispen
When we we're jailing Dmitry Sklyarov, people outside the US protested at our embassies. Where/how could people in the US (or other non-european countries) hold a similar protest? It would be nice to let the EU know that people who live under these kinds of laws suffer and are scared. It would also underscore the track record of such laws.
"Let him go, Ralph. He knows what he's doing." --Otto Mann (simpsons)
You can download the directive itself as a pdf file from here
here. This could help you comparing the actual Ideas of an government with the possibilities of interpretation.
In Germany the implementation of this directive is nearly finished. The Government already agreed to it. Now it's up to the parlament to modify it.
DMCA is alas just the implementation in local laws of the WIPO recommandations. So it's just a matter of time until all the countries that have adhered to WTO (i.e nearly all) implement similar law. Have a look at this intersting FAQ http://anti-dmca.org/faq.html
On another message board, I have an ongoing tongue-in-cheek argument with some people about who has the best nation to live. Now, at least I won't feel so bad about having to argue with the English folks, or those saying "if it gets worse, I can always move to england".
Really though, what motivation is there to pass such a law? Has it increased sales, security, standards, or anything in the U.S. by any measurable degree above pre-existing laws? Has it really has any impact on large-scale piracy, or given anyone any tools to make the U.S. a better place to live for the average person?
Can a meaningful "life" stand on it's own as "liberty" and "the pursuit of happyness" become completely controlled by costly beaurocracy, both corporate and governmental?
Ryan Fenton
So now Alan will have to make snippy comments in his diary about how he can't explain what security holes have been fixed, because British read his site?
It is essential that the average citizen understands the true impact of these laws, and that the government receives arguments from every side of the issue. A fistful of academics and computer scientists certainly can provide meaningful support to the public interest, but only if they engage the public and the government about the issue in terms that they can understand.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
-- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.
Maybe isolating Europe isn't so bad after all. I can only manage being violated by one DMCA at a time, thanks.
MjM
Hint: The smiley means it's a joke
XKCD:Xeric Knowledge Comically Dispen
If this is a "European Directive" why is the UK the only ones do it?
-- Coops
zadok.org.uk
I think, in plain(er) English, and filling in the cross-references, that they are proposing for the legitimate recipient of a copyright work to have a right to demand they are able to perform 'permitted acts' with a copyright work if a technological measure prevents it. Under this wording this implies playing a Region 1 DVD on a Region 2 player, playing US and Jap-released games on a chipped Playstation could be the subject of an official complaint, the latter implying the reverse of a recent ruling against a mod-chip maker in the UK!
Unfortunately, 1) I don't understand a fscking word of this document, but wonder whether they're trying to head off criticism through this addition, and 2) they've specifically excluded computer software from this!
Unfortunately also, the EU Copyright Directive is as good as law, and the comments they are inviting are specifically on the required UK implementation of this directive. However, given this state of affairs, this paragraph could be an interesting spanner in the works for UK copyright owners seeking to impose unreasonable restrictions, and could prove a foil against existing anti-'fair use' technologies.
I'd be interested to hear a more complete analysis of this paragraph and its practical upshot: after all, almost everything containing a microprocessor could be argued to contain copyrighted computer software these days.
Matthew @ Bytemark Hosting
So much for this guy's rant from 3 or 4 articles back, "A Private European Internet?" -- yeah, it's the US alright that is screwing up the Internet, with its lawyers, politicians and corporations. Weasels live everywhere, Mr. Thompson.
And I was going to move to Britain too, to not live in a country with that very same law they are now passing. Oh well....Anyone know of any non-DMCA'ed countries where English is a primary language? *Gets out Spanish dictionary* No policio, yo no tengo una computadora!
"Haw, haw!"
mstyne: real name, no gimmicks
Drunk politicions will forget which bills they were paid to vote for.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
HA-HA!
The libertarians who found an underwater atol close to the surface in the tropis, and then built an island on top of it to get out from under the yoke.
Oh yeah... they failed, when the U.S. paid the Tongan Navy $1M to go plant a Tongan flag on it to keep it from happening.
Richer people than you have tried...
-- Terry
It's all relative, friend. We bitch about what affects us. If I was a Palestinian in the West Bank...well, there's a REASON for the 2nd Amendment (and yes, we DO exercise that right).
He'll always be a pompous ass, he'll just be a hypocritical pompous ass now.
God-damnit this country sucks. You would think the government had more important things to do like.. oh i dont know the NHS?! but no, obviously Blair has time to suck Bushes dick and put laws in place so (and lets face it this is the real reason) American corporations can spread their seed and sue anyone who gets in their way. I'm blaiming America for this because its their fault :)
I can see next years riots - someone hacks the signs in Piccadilly Circus to show the DeCSS code, and i finally go... so i can smash up afew McDonalds.
You never know.. i could _actually_ vote Lib-Dems. thats if i actually bother voting this time...
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
X-DMCA-Complaints-To: dmca@comcast.net
Chilling...X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
Timeo idiotikOS et dona ferentes
anything like this wont pass here.
The makers of CloneCD already moved their office from germany over here. I'd guess other will follow sooner or later
I'd gladly have us join the Euro currency but to hell with any political system were you have the choice between buttmonger1 and 2 and it is called democracy
Darn. I guess we'll just have to fall back on Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights instead. That's the one guaranteeing freedom of expression, yada yada.
There is an exemption they'd probably argue for, where they can make it illegal to distribute information that would be used in the commission of crimes, but the burden of proof seems to be pretty much with them. You could (morally and legally) make an argument against distributing cracking software with that exemption. OTOH, they'd have to risk a very serious court case to try to stop things like academic study and the disclosure of vulnerabilities in software to sysadmins for security purposes.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
... an authorised publication by the patent office copyright section.
One of the processes undertaken prior to enacting much UK legislation is this public consulation process, the results of which are made available to the UK public.
-he who laughs last, is a bit slow.
journal
http://www.edri.org/
according to the blog there will be a "chilling effect".
For whom?
This is not intended as a troll - just the cold reality of "business as usual", IMO.
C|N>K
The solution to the problem is obvious, once you study it for a while...
....WTO
+WIPO
---------
DMCA
Can be solved as...
....831
+8571
--------
9402
If that's the case, WTF is the government supposed to do about it? Lower fuel taxes when its own costs are going to go up (cos the government has to buy fuel too)?
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
Many seem to forget that the EU isn't emulating the USA in this case. The EUCP and DMCA are both the results of an international copyright treaty by WIPO, an organization created by the WTO (World Trade Organization).
With 179 members, almost all countries in the world are covered, including Canada and Switzerland.
Can anyone comment on the possibilities of constitutional federal initiative and referendum laws in Switzerland being possible to use to get rid of this, assuming the public eventually voted it down in a referendum? Or is it too late to get rid of the law if it has already been passed?
Now will this be enforced on the World Wide Internet or just the European one?
Brian Ellenberger
enough said...
i'm glad he's p;utting us in prisson instead of teaching our kids like he used to.
I haven't see the 'token black man' as a senior minister yet.
n.b. 'token black man' is not a rasist insult, it's quite the oposite saying that people should be chosen for there abilities.
patents === a time limited copyright on ideas.
Whats the confusion here?
Keep the House of Lords, they might not be 'representitive' in the democrtic sense but there 'representitive' in there big mix of freeks sense.
I like that, i don't wan't another house of powermongers
Basicly here in the UK we have a massive amount of tax on fuel. Which is based as a percentage of the cost of that fuel. So when the world price goes up a bit, the price in the UK goes up massisily.
Shoot me
In order for the General Public(TM) to care about this, they need to understand exactly how it's going to effect them.
So, in language that the average, reasonably intelligent, member of the public can understand exactly how is it going to effect them?
Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
EU directives, while not actual laws as such, are binding requests for corresponding laws in the member states. A member state ignoring a directive commits a breach of treaty and faces monetary penalty or, in theory, exclusion from the union. I e-mailed a Swedish judge some time ago asking about issues related to this and he confirmed this.
Directives are also legally binding -- states do not choose what to implement (but they can of course be creative about the interpretation of the directive, assuming the directive is vague enough).
I hear this all the time - that somehow all the protests over RIP were a miserable failure.
As a matter of fact, the final form of the act that passed was substantially improved on the original proposal. The *original* bill was going to demand key escrow: that's to say, you'd have to hand over you PGP keys to a third party before you could use them.
Widespread protest by businesses and individuals stopped that.
As a fix, the government introduced the idea that if you didn't hand over your password, it would be presumed that you were hiding it. That's to say, reversing the burden of proof. People protested about this to, and the final form of the Act goes a long way to mitigating this issue.
There's a lot that's wrong with the RIP Act - but to describe the fight against it as a series of defeats is just as bad. You can make a difference. If you protested against RIP, perhaps you already have.
Hmm.. ya know, you're right. In that light, I suggest an alternative: Let the RIAA and MPAA (and anyone else in love with DMCA-type laws), who can bloody well afford it, buy an island and move there en masse. Then they can enact and enforce whatever laws they please without infringing on *our* freedoms. They can also keep their valuable digital material in a vault at the bottom of the ocean, where only *real* pirates can find it.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
I am active in the X-Box Linux effort, and based in the UK, it makes me very sad to read the summaries of this law here.
King Canute-style the people who make money from restricting availability of digital content have gotten more bad law made. As there is no technical fix for the erosion of their ability to overcharge, they instead try to bludgeon their customers into lying still.
The resources of the state, including the unique powers to punish and deprive citizens of money and liberty will soon be being applied to individuals in the name of enriching the copyright holders. This is so inappropriate its ludicrous.
I admired Janis Ian's second article reminding the legislators that they are voted in. But look at the incestuousness between these 'copyright holders' and the media that politicians need to influence the masses that vote for them! How far would a party get if it stood on a platform of de-emphasising these laws (I say that because no one country can strike them from the books, this being an EC law).
However, there is one bright light untouched by this. Linux, GPL software in general, stands as the opposition to this IP world. At the cost of 'dropping out' from using programs and media that is not free, you can still get by. So my prediction is that this historic force of giving hugely excessive power to copyright holders across the world will polarize people all the more and give the whole free knowledge philosophy a huge boost, turning many of us into mini-Stallmans.
and to Berlusconi's helpful opposition we had already our version of DMCA since 2000... (majorly lobbyed by Mediaset, Berlusconi's Editorial Group who controls mast major newspapers and 9 national televisions out of 9).
Now here any public officer can rush in private citizens houses and arrest everyone and their dog
for detaining warez or copied CDs. Not bad for a
country where an original cd costs 25$, and a videogame 62$.
I thought piracy was supposed to make the videogames cost less...
P.s. Latest Addition to the laws brought a 1.5$ Tax on every CD-R sold.
The thing that really scares me about the EUCD is the total lack of media coverage that this las has recevided here in Sweden. I don't know about the rest of Europe but here I've never seen it mentioned in any newspaper or on television. All information I have found about it has come from reading Slashdot and other independant online sources.
Somewhere in the heavens... they are waiting.
I suggest that other software professionals do
as I am doing and vote with their feet. Simply
leave those countries which enact similar
legislation. I'm going to China, where I will
telecommute to my U.S. job, pay no taxes, and
hire experienced software engineers for pennies
on the dollar to comparably skilled westerners,
as well as getting (speculatively) a lot of hot
asian action.
To those of you remaining behind: Farewell
suckers!
-I like my women like I like my tea: green-
The "masses" will care plenty about this if they know what it means. For instance, it will become impossible for them to videotape their brainless shows since sky will introduce set top boxes that prevent it, and any circumvention device will be illegal. Mess with their rights to watch drivel whenever they please and the masses will care plenty.
.. actual people have far more power, they're just not as organised.
Secondly, it's not that hard to change the mind of the government. Fuck it, they are people to. Unless you're a fucking hermit you're probably only 3 friends away from someone in real power and probably less. It doesn't take much pressure when inserted in the right places.
The point is that the people opposed to these laws, eg electronics manafacturers, and er
Make some noise.
Maybe is the DMCA is repealed this will fail, but since our prime minister dances to Bush's tune he'll just blindly follow whatever the US does. It's sad really that we have such a pathetic bunch of losers to choose between when we get the rare chance of putting a X in a box.
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
In the UK we have Quangos, government agencies that make lots of important decisions but aren't democratically elected.
Working my way through the text of the proposed ammendments to the copyright act - it seems to me that the text related to clause 296ZA - 296ZD are the crux of the clauses which define a circumvention device.
There appears to be a clause (un-numbered) which relates to someone who believes his fair use rights have been infringed by such a circumvention device. The wording is really unclear, but it appears that if you complain to the Secretary of State he can direct the copyright holder to tell you how to circumvent the technological methods.
Even though there is this get out clause, it still seems biased towards a the copyright holder. I would like to make an informed comment to the government via the public consultation but I this it difficult without fully understanding the wording.
Whats the views out there?
The UK Campaign for Digital Rights was established last year specifically to campaign against the European Copyright Directive's implementation in the UK. It has held a couple of mini-conferences on the topic already.
We are completing our analysis of the implementation paper at present. Those wishing to see significant change in the draft before enactment face two problems:
1. The EUCD will be implemented by statutory instrument, which means there will be no debate in the Houses of Parliament. Forcing a debate to be held requires the co-operation of a number of members of parliament.
2. The UK is permitted little lee-way in enacting the EUCD. Whilst the Directive itself allows for a certain degree of flexibility in some areas, the UK cannot stray from the path set for it by the EU without risking punishment from Brussels. To a significant extent, our hands are tied, therefore.
That said, the UK Campaign for Digital Rights aims to ensure that we apply sufficient pressure during the consultation period to obtain the least damaging legislation possible.
Any and all assistance (particularly from lawyers) is welcomed.
Julian Midgley
Why I can see that producers of content would want even harsher copyright laws (and that we consumers would of course want to oppose them) - why do the laws have to be so stupid? We're fighting a large, powerful, dumb power. That doesn't make it less threatening but it does make it more annoying and frustrating. That they want to forbid free copying of movies among friends (legal in, for example, Sweden now but probably not for long) I can see. Why they're fighting DeCSS and things like that I can't. That's just dumb.
That I've seen, the only actual rights that have been suspended have been those of non-citizens, and mostly non-citizens that the government has reason to believe are combatants against the United States.
Yes, USA PATRIOT and the like are really, really bad stuff. But hyperbole only serves to cloud the real dangers here. The government *isn't* just "arbitrary suspending" rights of all Americans.
And what on earth would that even do to deny me a "position to complain" about the ECHR? Are you some kind of Christian zealot, who demands that only Jesus may cast the first stone?