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Tenebrae Quake
viperstyx writes "Ah, the days of running around in bland 3d environments and fragging your best friends surrounded by a plethora of sprites and simple textures. What if we could go back to those days, except with per-pixel shading and transparent water? Well now, thanks to Tenabrae Quake you can. This small [just over 3mb] mod to the original quake engine allows users to play Quake while taking advantage of new technology like per-pixel shading. Its beautiful and definitely worth any old skool gamer's time =]"
Seems that this site is already slashdotted, if anyone has a mirror location please post it under here.
Thanks in advance.
http://216.239.51.100/search?q=cache:uauPOD4eZTsC: users.pandora.be/hollemeersch/blackrose/tenebrae/+ Tenebrae+Quake&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
I can only hope that someone will take the lessons learned from this and possibly re-vamp the old doom, maybe doom II would be eaiser, but doom would be oh-so-cool if someone were to add in modern features and graphics, but allow the gameplay for the most part to remain the same... Or, maybe I'm just nuts....
Stuff like per-pixel shading and transparent water effects won't change the gameplay one bit. Quake will still be Quake, only instead of being able to play on your old P100, you now need a much more powerful machine and graphics accelerator. Games don't improve because the graphics are updated - in fact, part of the appeal of games like Quake is that we can look back at the game and marvel at what they could do with what they had at the time. It's a sad state of affairs when a fantastic game that still looks great today has to have its graphics improved to sate the appetites of those with a sweet tooth for eye candy.
What have i seen last couple of days on slashdot: A story about getting back to the old internet with BBS systems, Time travelling, and now this. Someone trying to make a point that the past is better than now???
A mirror of the screen shots is at http://www.codewhore.org/tbq.
I must really be starved for attention to do this.
...is here
Yes, back in the day...
Back in the day, we had to walk 20 miles in the snow to get to the town's graphics processor... (it was an ATI Rage, and we hailed it as the greatest thing ever...), then we had to take the pixel that it gave us and walk all the way another 20 miles to get to the town shader... he'd shade each and every pixel by hand... once we finally got our pixel, we'd have to walk the 20 miles back home again to put out pixel right in the memory, with our DIP switches.... And don't you forget it Michael, it wasn't frames per minute, you'd be lucky if you could get 1 frame per hou-- whatzat sonny??
****LART**** </VOICE>
Thanks. Needed that.
qw (QuakeWorld) is still being played in both europe and the states. Tournaments are held once an year, maybe more... It's not a huge following but it definately exists... The Q1 physics were much different and it is still the 'fastest' game in the quake series (i think, maybe q3), so for some people it's much better.
Of course this is compeditive gaming, and not actually playing q1 start to finish with all the monsters. I'd think that the lighting might be something they'd rather not have because when you game compeditivly you don't want any distractions so you take the 'detail' of the game down dramatically as a trade off for speed. I'm not sure if this is relevant for q1 cause I would assume that most computer it's being played on right now could easily handle it (unlike my 486 which positivly GROANED).
I just downloaded the source, and this patch, a few hours before the slashdotting (woo), but it looks like id's quake source is trying to use Mesalib version *2* (we're up to 4.0.3 now), and is still full of stuff for those damn non-standard 3dfx cards.
Has anyone updated the quake 1 source for all of today's libraries? I'd really like DGA mouse (I can't stand playing FPS games under X w/o DGA mouse). Then perhaps this patch would work under linux too (the readme says it's written for win32 but differences *should* be minimal)
--
grep "xercist"
With the right nods, Quake 1 still offers the best deathmatch experience, bar none.
:)
Give me infinite weapons and a well-tuned grappling hook any day over per-pixel shading.
Dahlmann tightly grips the knife, which he may have no idea how to use, and steps out into the plain.
Was the scare factor.
I LOVED the single player aspect of quake.
When the demo was first released, a friend and I got together and played through it co-op.
Nothing like turning a corner just to find some big ass bad guy... with me screaming... dying.. and shouting "OMG! Dont go around that corner!" (I am talking about first running into a shambler btw... hehe)
A big part of what gave this effect was the atmosphere combined with the fact that, at the time... neither of us where very good at playing this type of game.
The new lighting and whatnot (from what I've seen in the screenies...) it looks like this type of atmosphere has been enhanced greatly.
The only real problem is the fact that... after playing through the game so many times, and many years of FPS action, I am quite good at not dying. Yes this is a PROBLEM. LOL... I don't want to get through the entire game on nightmare and only die once...
This is one of the reasons why I really look forward to Doom III. It looks like the atmosphere and hopefully decently hard badguys will provide a decent thrill factor.
In this kind of game, I want to come around some corner and literally jump out of my seat.
The only game I've played lately that has done that for me was Return to Castle Wolfenstein. And only then, it was a few key moments. Like one part where you come through a hallway with a door at the end... and a window to the left just before the door... you can't really SEE through the window yet... but as you walk up a body flys at the window... now that scared the crap out of me! LOL roommate says, "Why did you just scream like a girl?". hehehehe.
Luke
Now even Quake1 runs bad on my Voodoo3!
The original quake had transparent water.. well, if you run a special VIS-pass over the maps and used glquake (or had the power to run a special executable which did it on the fly -- I think -- I never did that though). I played it that way all the time, and it was much fun.
Sprites? Didn't Carmack say he only used three sprites in quake? Or was that quake 2.. no, I think it's the original quake that only had three or so sprites (waterbubbles and something and another).. ah.. I found it on google.
As for the doom-engine games, there's already DooM Legacy which features TCP/IP network play and split-screen two-player mode on one computer, and more.
Belief is the currency of delusion.
My k7 1.2ghz and a gf2 can crunch the data, but it's not running very fast.... maybe 20 fps. The docs said something about Nvidia cards needing to run it in 32bpp. I couldn't be bothered to check, though I didn't notice any graininess.
My first thought on how to go even farther with this is to procedurally refine the textures. Obviously, the artist's intentions would go a long way to production quality, but they wouldn't beat content designed for this. The question is, is it better than the original content?
If the programmer's intent is to make quake look cooler, and not to just flex his coding muscles, it would be fun if he ran 50 or so quake demos from the net, and figured out the most heavily shot parts of the levels, and put damage decals and what not in them when they load, to give them a worn look. After all, more people have died in dm3 since 1996 than in both world wars combined. :)
The site seems to have a lots of pictures, even though the textures are a bit blocky and they could stand some anti-alliasing. But what I would really like are some before and after shots so I could see (before I download, read everything and install) just what the visual difference is. Am I the only one who finds it odd that this seems lacking?
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
I have just spent 200 Euros to buy a video card that will run today's games. It has more memory than my mainboard and the processor is nearly as fast ( and it cost more than my mainboard is worth, I suspect ).
So, how much better are these new games, now I have all this X hundred MHz rendering-Anti-pipeline-fx-rendering bollocks ?
Nix, nul, niente, zero, no difference.
There are more pixels on my screen and the mist is rendered better. Oo oo.
Games manufacturers need to cut their ties to video and sound card manufacturers and produce better games, not games that REQUIRE the latest tech, while adding NOTHING in gameplay.
Well, do you remember a few weeks ago when there was an Ask SlashDot about how to break big earth shattering news to the world?
What SlashDot was trying to steel you for is that CmdrTaco & CowBoyNeal found a way to travel thru time!
Imagine that! They'll go back to 1987 and start the SlashDot BBS!
You betcha it's still played. I never warmed up to Quake 2 (too ugly) or Unreal Tournament (flaky network handling), so I still play QuakeWorld a lot. My favorite servers are NOBODY'S QUAKEWORLD (yes, all caps), and MommySue's Happy Place.
Grab yourself a client and join in!
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
try sdlquake. A version of quake1 that uses SDL.
-metric
Those servers are gay! They have self damage disabled, so the rocket launcher is overpowering.
Of course people still play Quake 1. In fact, I play Quakeworld all the time. Quakeworld is Quake 1 with enhanced netcode. I suggest playing on any of the KTPRO servers, as they use the most up-to-date version of the Quakeworld server out there. Other servers have an annoying jumping bug that causes your jumps to randomly fail. Really annoying bug that will have you screaming "I PRESSED JUMP!". The older servers have a few other bugs that are fixed in the new KTPRO server.
The KTPRO servers also have automatic server-side demo recording. These demos can be viewed from any perspective... so yeah, improvements have been made in other areas.
Type +mlook in the console to enable mouselook. Then bind the rest of your keys however you want.
VERY cool, goto the quit screen with the credits, and hit D. If you shoot the well of wishes sign in the nightmare hallway it tells you this.
- The technical demo of retrofitting an existing OpenGL engine with the new stuff they're doing with DOOM III
- The fact that Quake is one of a few games with available GPL'd source
- The fact that many people still own the game or have ever owned it (I had to break out my old CD)
- The sheer novelty of it - he could have chosen the more up to date (relatively speaking) Quake II engine but this is even more impressive
- And finally, this now officially labels this guy as a badass graphics programmer.
I can hear it now...MR. BURNS: "I need a programmer! Get John Carmack on the line!"
SMITHERS: "He's unavailable sir."
MR. BURNS: "Then get me his non-union Belgian equivalent!"
Schnapple
Its beautiful and definitely worth any old skool gamer's time =]"
/old man voice
Quake is old school? Jebus, I must belong in a nursing home if anybody considers that old.
I am BelDion's
Agreed. This is quite cool. And even despite the obvious polygon and texture limitations, its eerie how this manages to look more stylishly cool than most 3d games being released right now. Goes to show you that polygons aren't everything and more realistic lighting can be a KEY feature.
Someone was working on GLDuke (screenshots from some random site), but I have no idea what's up with the project anymore. Last I heard, it was scrapped. The Official site yields a 404.
:)
I did find an alternate site with the last binaries and source that the guy did. If anyone wants to pick up the project, I'm sure you'd get lots of love.
Just think, the same project could be applied towards GLBlood, GLShadowWarrior, uh..*shudder* GLTekWar, and a few others. Heh. GLPaintBrawl.
Seriously though, I hope someone does something good with this stuff.
Yep, I can't say I've recalled any game that scared the crap out of me quite as badly as Quake did that night I was playing the shareware version, lights low and amp cranked. Just got to the end of the level and there was nifty pressure plate in a stone courtyard with two big blocks next to it. Yes, we all knew something was going to happen when you stepped on it... (step)click(/step), spin around look and look for the monster. No Monster, but the blocks were floating... Hey, they're going to the indentures in the gate. Maybe that's the way out... click! RwRRRROOOOoooRRRW!!! "Eeeeeek" *munch, munch, munch*...
The sequels just haven't done the original justice.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
I never really cared for Quake II or Quake 3. The original Quake, played in CTF or Thunderwalker CTF was my all-time favorite.
:)
I think the things I didn't like about the newer varients were the extremely (imho) slow grappling hook.
Hooking around on Q1 CTF on a big monitor, felt like flying. And it was great! Nothing else has come close to the same feeling yet.
There was nothing like the feeling of having a gang of opponents hot on your heels as you were making tracks with the flag and being able to hook away leaving them in the dust. You could even stay totally airborne in some of the bigger rooms.
I still get nostalgic when I play Q1 - I used to be able to play for 6 hours a day over the dialup at my old job
Those were the good ol' days...
N.
"Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence." - Charles de Gaulle
Problem I have with quake is I can never get my straffing right after playing ungodly amounts of Tribes.
Is there any way to make it staff like tribes does?
I live in a giant bucket.
This small [just over 3mb] mod to the original quake engine . . .
And to think I used to worry about how to squeeze an extra 1024 bytes onto my games floppy. Wow.
on the other hand, he has his own *rocket company*!
:-)
He's clearly well on the way to 'dying with the most toys', and therefore winning
A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
Drop pipe bombs on an elevator, wait next to it for someone to call it... Detonate when elevator stops. Pipe bombs were the ultimate in sneaky. Tripmines aren't that useful because you can see the beam. They should have gotten rid of that for multiplayer.
--Fesh
Kill -9 'em all, let root@localhost sort 'em out.
Some people (including myself) think that anything more recent than Quake Classic just... Doesn't compare.
The original Team Fortress was by far the best (Especially the Canal Zone capture and hold map - Now THAT was fun to play! No one else has come up with a C&H map for more recent TFs that was anywhere close to CZ in complexity, size, and joy of gameplay.
Let's not forget that Quake3 could use its sounds revamped up to classic Quake standards. Rocket explosions have just been plain wussy since classic Quake.
And Threewave CTF was by far the most fun CTF I've ever played - 3W for Quake 3 is close, but as of yet no mapper has yet to create a map like McKinley Base where the advanced sizzlefry (LG suiciding on the enemy flag carrier in the water) could be put to such good use. And classic 3W maps meant you HAD to learn the grapple to get the best mobility - Not like most other CTF mods where you've got a grapple on a map that's entirely playable without it, so it's just a way of moving faster, not of getting to new areas.
Too bad the source release fragmented the classic Quake scene, finally killing a game that was lasting a LONG time even in the face of Quake 2 and (to some degree) Q3.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Do "timedemo demo1"
First you get the standard demo1.
Then you get the "grenade demo" - only mildly neat, until he starts shooting grenades at the ceiling in the E1M1 rocket launcher room. (Well, RL in deathmatch, nailgun otherwise) - REALLY cool.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
I think simply revamping the textures to match the level of detail newer video cards can handle would go a LONG way towards making things more bearable. (And most likely it would be a less ambitious undertaking than revamping the models themselves).
Only two though... And they do NOT do justice to the capabilities of these hacks.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
The shots do seem to show the key differences (remember the water issue is really a patch from someone else). The shadow differences are there, his hack does give shadowed areas where Quake had too much light. Don't expect a completely different game, but it's a nice improvement. The two comparison's don't show the player's shadow, but some of the other shots he gives do.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
If he includes support for TGA or PNG textures (like in the Telejano engine), the quality will be AMAZING...
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Quakeforge has some cool effects too: colored lighting, nicer particle effects, rippled water, etc. I'd suggest checking it out. http://quakeforge.net
:P not to mention the wolfenstein opengl port(s).
There are also multiple OpenGL-based doom*/heretic/hexen engines, want 32-player UDP/IP play? what about looking up and down? they got it
After reading the documentation, it looks like this engine hack can't reach its fullest potential without some modifications to the actual content (maps, textures)
h ni cal/textures.htm has information on how to create texures including bumpmaps and gloss maps for Tenebrae. So if they are created, high-res textures CAN be used!
:(
http://studwww.rug.ac.be/~cholleme/tenebrae/tec
See http://www.geocities.com/q1textures/ for an example of textures that can be used as a starting point. These are high-res, but no bump/gloss maps (whereas Tenebrae comes with bump/gloss maps, but no improvements otherwise on the stock Q1 8-bit lowres textures.)
If you go to any map other than E1M1 you'll notice that the lighting just isn't as spectactular, nor are the textures - That's because the author only generated bumpmaps for the E1M1 textures and only tweaked the lighting for the E1M1 map.
Try taking one of the high-res texture packs from the above site and putting the TGAs in the tenebrae/override directory, and firing up dm2 or dm4.
You'll see that Tenebrae DOES support high-res texture packs. Unfortunately, dm2's lighting is CRAP under Tenebrae. (Note that the docs say elsewhere that Tenebrae only uses maps where the spawnflag for DM is off - This is probably it.)
I would love to see Tenebrae with high-res bumpmapped textures. I'm gonna try tweaking the lighting in the BSP this afternoon, but I don't have the ability to do the bumpmaps.
A merger of Tenebrae and Telejano would be cool too...
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
I just tried out Tenebrae Quake and the only thing I'm sure now is that I can kiss goodbye any chances of having DOOM III run on my computer. Looks like I'll have to go out and buy a new video card.
Tenebrae is nice tought. The shadows are nice, even tought they are blocky, but that's normal since the models are blocky too. There seems to be a problem though with the enemies : they look like someone applied a bit too much of car wax on them...
Probably the worst thing about the new engine is that the textures... suck.
z ip
.tgas got in tenebrae\override
The author took the original textures and added bumpmapping/glossmaps to them. An improvement, but still, the base textures are 8-bit low-res images.
Check out http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/atd7/testmap.
testmap.bsp goes in tenebrae\maps, the
There are two bumpmaps - bump2 and bump1 - Copy thone or the other to mmetal1_2_bump.tga to switch between em'.
Yes, it is a gay looking texture. So sue me, it was a few minutes of work and is just a variant of the gimp.org basic patterns tutorial. BUT it is much higher resolution than the originals, and isn't degraded from close-up viewing. It also shows off the glossmapping capability (The greenish-blue is highest gloss, blue is mid-gloss, purple is lowest gloss, but blue is at a lower elevation in the bumpmap) One has noise added to the bumpmap for extra texture.
There's nothing stopping someone from using high-res textures/bumpmaps - The engine supports it, someone just has to make the content.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
He's right. That's blatant plagiarism, man. Don't make a habit of that. It could get you killed, or worse.
I know more than you drink.