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XBox Linux HOWTOs
killmenow writes "Following up this slashdot story from a few days ago, today The Register is reporting that the XBox Linux folks have released a HOWTO for getting SuSE 8.0 running. Cool...I may have to go buy an X-Box now." There's also a HOWTO for Debian if that's your style. All of these require an XBox with modified hardware... There's also a story about the XBox online gaming service that implies Microsoft will be scanning your machine to make sure you haven't modified it, but we can't link to it since silicon.com has some sort of stupid registration requirement. Anyone find the story elsewhere? Ah, News.com has a story about XBox Live.
Cool...I may have to go buy an X-Box now
You boviously have more money than brains if you want to go buy an X Box just because you can install Linux on it. If you want to install Linux on something, buy a PC. Xbox is for games.
but to do anything with this I would really need a WHYTO.
sulli
RTFJ.
You'll eventually cave and will buy an X-box game. Its like a little kid dipping into the cookie jar even though its naughty.
Now I have linux on my XBox.
It was cool bringing a BASH prompt.
But now I really wanna play some Halo, but I can't?
It really sucks. I bought it for a gaming console, and now its just like a computer...
If I recall correctly wasn't some Anonymous Coward running a $250k award to the first group to get this done?
The site referenced asks for a password. Err...
If the link requires registration,the kind thing is to indicate that in the description.
Failure is not an option. It comes automatically enabled in every Microsoft product.
MS has the right to block any one form its networks. However, if they pursue the X-box owner (most likely by lawsuit) this is a different story. While X-box live is their network, the X-box is the consumer's personal possession. With that said, the person who owns it has the right to do anything he wants to it, modding included.
There is nothing wrong with being gay. It's getting caught where the trouble lies.
Suppose you get Linux running on your X-Box? Then what? You say "Wow, I have Linux running on my X-Box, I'm super cool." But... then what?
Actually as soon as I hit submit, I realized the answer to my question. After you have linux running on your X-Box, you return it to the store and get your money back, then buy another X-Box and repeat. Make sure you put some Xgames on it and a KDE wallpaper with the XBox logo. You'll be puzzling the hell out of anyone who buys it and I can just see what happens when they call up toys R us and ask them if their XBox is supposed to have a little window with $ in it.
"is this actually by microsoft" ????
Did you go to the site? It's a hacker project, with the current version running only on MOD CHIPPED X-BOXES. With MS threatening to use xbox-live to scan for mod chips, I'd say the answer is pretty obvious.
Bah! All you need to do is add another mod to hide the mod they look for. Remenicient of the ever popular radar-detector-detector.
Linux on the X-Box? Suuuuure, next some high up at Microsoft will admit that windows isnt secure, or that someone landed on the "moon"...
:P
humor folks, enjoy it
This is my sig. Its pathetic.
is this guy serious? if you just want to toy around with suse, BUY A PC. last i heard they were getting 1 frame a second on tux racer... for $300 you could buy a pretty decent PC that would run suse much better.
MARIJUANA, SHROOMS, X: ONLINE?! - E
[Somehow, it worked for me before it started asking for a passwd. maybe they're blocking /. referrer tags?]
Microsoft makes Xbox U-turn
'You know we said we wouldn't be scanning your console to see what you've been up to... well...'
By David Becker
Microsoft has backtracked on an earlier pledge not to use its Xbox Live online gaming service to crack down on modified chips which enable the console to run copied game discs and unlicensed software.
A 14-page user agreement and privacy notice included with the first Xbox Live kits sent to beta testers specifies that Microsoft reserves the right to revoke Xbox Live privileges for anyone with a chipped Xbox and to scan consoles on the network to enforce its rights.
A handful of grey-market Xbox mod chips have gone on sale in the past few months. Once soldered onto the Xbox's main circuit board, the chips disable various copy protection measures, allowing the machines to run legally or illegally copied discs, imported games and unlicensed software. Numerous hacking projects have emerged to use the chips to adapt Xbox units for use as media players and Linux boxes.
Although Microsoft has said it will take legal action against any modifications that infringe on its intellectual property, a representative for the software giant said last month that Xbox Live, the upcoming online service for the console, would not be used to detect modified consoles.
Yet language in the initial Xbox Live user agreement appears to allow Microsoft to do exactly that. It states: "Xbox Live may only be accessed with an unmodified, except for Microsoft authorised repairs and upgrades, Xbox video game console. Any attempt to disassemble, decompile, create derivative works of, reverse engineer, modify, further sublicense, distribute or use for other purposes either the hardware or software of this system is strictly prohibited."
The agreement further states: "Microsoft may retrieve information from the Xbox used to log on to Xbox Live as necessary to operate and protect the security of Xbox Live, and to enforce this Agreement."
The privacy statement accompanying the agreement says information collected about specific consoles connected to Xbox Live will be used to update the console's software, protect the network's security and "protect and defend the rights or property of Microsoft."
David Becker writes for News.com
Could someone please post the EULA for the Xbox. I'm 99% certain that it said, essentially, "you can't use the software that comes with the xbox for anything but your xbox." That is, you can't use their software on another computer (making Xbox-emulators pretty difficult). I don't think it said anything else.
Furthermore, this restriction was only printed in a small box on one side of the product's shipping box -- nowhere did I see any EULAs on the unit itself, when I booted it up, or on any kind of sticker when I opened it up.
I'm just curious if they've since made it more restrictive. I know I was VERY surprised not to find a typical Microsoft EULA attached to a big red sticker pasted over the power supply, or somesuch.
That said, the "live network" could certainly deny access two whomever it wants -- be they people from another timezone, another country, or people using modded xboxes. But Microsoft shouldn't have any leg to stand on to prevent people from modding their boxes, except for the obvious one of avoiding copy protection on duplicated games (which wouldn't apply to 3rd party software, and *shouldn't* apply to backups). And Microsoft shouldn't go telling game companies that you've got a modded xbox and save folders on the hard driver for games X, Y, and Z (infering that they're illegally copied games).
Of course, what's right and legal is irrelevant when they've got more laywer money than most geeks with modded xboxes....
> Besides, you're still giving your cash to Microsoft.
I keep reading MS is losing money on every single xbox they sell.
If lots of people were to buy an xbox without buying a single game for it, MS would probably be a little bit unhappy about it.
First my X-Box starts trying to log into my tivo and delete the show it recorded on how microsoft smells.
If I try and stop it, it'll log into my new furniture and have it trick me into building myself into a cage.
If that doesn't work it'll have my microwave irratiate my house and my toaster burn all my toast (ok... so that one's not as scary).
Can't wait till my video game playing AI decides to "destory the humanoids." Man I love technology (note the lack of sarcasm tags).
"Probably the toughest time in anyone's life is when you have to murder a loved one because they're the devil." -Philips
The DMCA means that even if you crack the protection on the XBOX you own, you are in violation, no?
Buying an XBox is a complete waste of cash. In case you haven't noticed, XBox sales are tanking compared to the PS2. And with Sony actively developing the PS3, who's going to want MS's offering? Hands down, the PS2 is the better system.
With its reverse compatability, the PS2 already had a solid library of games when it was released. The XBox had zilch, just some games that were "exclusives" only because MS bought up their producers for that reason. Chances are that the PS3 will also be retro-happy. If there's ever an X2, knowing MS, it probably won't be retro-happy. How else would they suck our wallets dry?
And now, people are porting Linux to it. That's no reason to rush out and buy an XBox. Sony embraced Linux and put out a PS2 Linux Kit. MS, while they haven't really bitched yet, will probably flip if someone gets Linux running on their console in any practical sense. They've been nearly 100% anti-Linux (as much as they are anti-competitive despite the DoJ rulings) and will probably go crying to the courts if it happens. And if they do that, you can bet the result will be having to all but say goodbye to your rights as a consumer/end user with regards to their failing console.
I own neither a PS2 or an XBox. I'm waiting for the right moment to get one, and I assure you, it'll be a PS2. Reason? FF XI. The only thing I'd want to do with an XBox is put Linux on it to spite MS, and knowing me, I'd fuck that up somehow. At least with the PS2 I can go clean out my local Trading Post/Second Hand joint for all the games its got and know they'll work.
But hey. I still wish the XBox Linux Project all the luck in the world. Anyone who's out to "stick it to the man" (whether that's their motive or not) is OK in my book.
Blog Prophyts - Right On, Man
Uh, the dreamcast has already been done.
I'm betting there will be a new generation of stealth mods and hd swap kits for those who want to make the box 'clean' to get on XBL. I don't really feel like playing cat-and-mouse every day to stay ahead of the game. Online play has historically been one of the most effective (not 100% mind you) means of copy protection.
I don't really mind double posts on
Here's the story from news.com
Microsoft didn't put Linux on the X-box.
It requires a MODIFIED X-box.
Try reading the article.
I keep reading MS is losing money on every single xbox they sell.
Yeah, but as so many have already pointed out, they lose even more money on every xbox they don't sell.
Also, what respectable geek isn't going to be just a little bit tempted to buy Halo if they have the system sitting around anyway.
... rice, rice, gravy
Anyone find the story elsewhere?
"In perhaps slightly related news, Cnet reports sightings of one of Microsoft's all-new draconian EULAs in the Xbox Live beta kit."
-- My HARDWARE, My CHOICE.
>>Besides, you're still giving your cash to >>Microsoft. Nope, yer not.. M$ loses money (a lot of money) on each xbox purchase. And look at it this way - the xbox when opened, is nothing more than a PC. I've already upgraded the hard drive in mine for game storage.. but really for the $200 cost you could have a funny/cheap fileserver on your network, stick it to M$ by runing linux, and cause a financial loss to them. I like it =)
when Microsoft originally started shipping the xbox, they WISHED that that Linux would run on it as soon as possible. Why? They wanted a good excuse for entering the desktop/home PC market without being accused for using their monopoly power.
Now, because Linux has already soon changed the xbox from a game console to a nearly fullblown home PC - Microsoft can do it with windows as well. Want more proof, here. They are practising for this take over in many fronts. And it's not only PCs, they also bought a mobile phone plant in china. Oh yes, they will be selling the whole package SW+HW very soon.
They lose more by NOT buying it in the first place.
Michael Loves Me!
These general purpose computers are trapped inside a console, but they're capable of so much more. They're like the people in The Matrix that are turned into batteries. The xbox-linux people are like the crew of the Nebuchadnezzar. They're trying to free the souls that are enslaved in each x-box.
And don't give me the line about how every xbox sale is a loss to microsoft. A sale is a sale on a quarterly earnings report, which is all the stockholders care about anyways.
For less than the price of an xbox you can get a really nice little motherboard Via technologies is putting out now for $130 or less.
http://www.via.com.tw/en/Products/eden.jsp
Now sure it doesn't have a 10 gig hard drive ($20 bucks?) or a dvd drive (+$40) or ram (128 +$20) or a case (+20) but so far for an Eden based system we're at $200, far less than the $270 you would expect to pay for a modded xbox.
Since UltraHLE i've never bought a console system. Why? If I put that $200 into my system, in a couple of years someone will write an emulator that can play it.
If you really want M$ to lose money, figure out a way around their copy protection, write an emulator, and watch how fast ISO images of the games start floating around IRC and p2p networks. Don't feed the beast by buying another xbox please!
--toq
With a modded Xbox running Linux I can use mplayer (possibly even Xine?) to watch all my DivX movies on my Wega flatscreen with simulated dolby surround.
Software can be considered intellectual property, and in the warped system the U.S. uses, companies can use so-called "shrink wrap" licenses on customers. As common as these are, however, many feel they would not hold up in court due to first sale doctrine, and due to the fact that the customer did not sign a contract. UCITA states are the exception here.
Hardware, on the other hand, is not intellectual property. A company may rent or lease this hardware to you, or they may sell it to you. Whichever one it is must be spelled out clearly at the time of the transaction. There's none of this grey-area crap that you see with software.
So go ahead and mod the XBox all you want.
The restriction from the DMCA comes in if you are modifying it to circumvent copy protection measures. But that has little to do with Microsoft. They are taking advantage of it by adding copy control measures, but it isn't part of some license that they wrote.
Yeah, and when it detects no response to those "lag packets" being sent to your machine, yet you're still connected and playing, they can just disconnect you. Which is what would probably happen instead of them trying to DOS your linuX-Box.
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
Although some people will take the conspiritorial mindset that this was done solely to Microsoft's advantage and being anti-consumer, it was most likely done not to prevent silly things like Linux running on the box, but to prevent cheaters from modifying their boxes in such a way as to ruin the online experience for others.
It wouldn't take all that many cheaters with modded boxes to tank any online network's value to the average casual gamer.
Of course, there's the side benefit of punishing those who mod their boxes for copyright infringement purposes.
What is Michael thinking? Alienating another site is no way to drive revenue. Good God man, take a moment and think. Sure we all agree that registering for something and contributing are no way to run a site. With regards to the upcoming Subscription Plums here, your remark is quite contradictory. The ad revenue must be through the roof you ingrate. Please excuse my rant everyone, but I found that "stupid" statement especially offensive and crude. Perhaps I am wrong for holding the Editors to a higher standard, but it is my belief that they set the tempo and theme to this site by their choice of "news", moderation, and by editorial license. Before anyone says "if you don't like it leave", please note that I have subscribed with another account, I help fund this debacle. Fell free to contradict me.
If we don't fight for ourselves no one will.
Please explain.
GM should give me 100$ because by not buying a $40,000 car of theirs, they're 'losing' (I think the term youre looking for is not realizing 40,000 dollars of revenue) more than just a tiny 100$? Is it preferable to them that I take 100$ from them instead of not buying a car since they 'lose' less that way?
"Old man yells at systemd"
In a recent Fry's ad, I saw an ad for a AMD Duron 1Ghz processor and motherboard for $79, and the motherboard had on board sound / video. Add some RAM, a hard drive, etc, and you can build a more powerful machine for probably around $300, and you don't have to solder in anything or void your warranty.
Anyone have a really compelling reason to run Linux on an XBOX? I'm sure there's at least one... maybe small machine footprint? XBOX is huge for a console compared to PS2 / Gamecube, but it's still small compared to even a midtower PC.
And yes, I'll accept "Because it's fun" as an answer :)
XBOX $199
MOD $99-149
Risk of ruining your XBox when soldering the mod chip: minimal but possible.
Add the price of your favorite keyboard and mouse and it's more cost effective to just buy a cheap PC or a "Net PC" with Linux (ThinkNic's go for only $249 WITH a keyboard and mouse).
For me, I'll keep my XBox of the games, and my cheap x86 box for Linux.
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
why, oh why is everyone so hyped about the xbox? aside from the fact that the M$ marketing department know perfectly well how to generate hype and sell crap, I mean?
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Two points, really. First, you could see this one coming miles away. Microsoft controls all the cards. They control the hardware you're getting, the software you're using and the network you're surfing. Given the fact that they created a closed box for a reason, it's no huge leap to imagine they'd use one or all of these paths to dissuade people from modding their box. And you won't see me minding too much either. One good thing that will make the X Box live a decent experience is conformity (yes, that evil, evil word). Knowing that the person who just fragged you has exactly the same hardware and connection. Sure, I might miss a multi region DVD mod or something, but not that much. Besides, I don't think anybody who mods for Linux is really worried about the games or X-Box Live. On that note, I can see MS being paranoid of Linux users trying to hack or otherwise use/abuse the Live network. I'd ban modded boxes too. A real, uncrippled OS is a dangerous tool in that environment. Too much temptation for you rabid, salivating Linux fan-boys. Finally, it's my opinion that Ps2 networking is probably going to blow because your going to have just as many surfing/playing problems as you did on your PC back in the Doom/Quake days... Y'know-- When that 56kb connection actually equalled out to 31.5kb if the planets were aligned and the wind was blowing south at 6kph? Maybe you'll get 42kb tommorow...
You need a FREE iPod Nano
Because they can.
Now might be the best time possible to get one. The initial release of the xbox might be the only one capable of running linux.
Microsoft is doing things like finding more efficient/cheaper(/secure) components and is planning on combining the xbox with directv (not to mention the recent change in the security keys.)
Wait, and you might have to get the original version on some overpriced ebay auction
Price of a New XBox: $300.oo
Materials to mod the Xbox: $23.88
The look on his face when he realizes he just screwed up the soldering job and ruined the entire board: Priceless.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
I think Microsoft's management were so used to winning in the software market they belived they can just do a similar thing in the electronics market and get the same results. I don't think they realised what they were taking on when they took on Sony.
I believe Sony - as business strategists - are much more sophisticated than Microsoft, at least when it comes to electronics products. I predict a suprise from Sony with the PS3 - there isn't going to be one. What Sony will do is make it so that all their medium and high-end DVD players will have the capability to play games. Games is where the money is, after all, not the boxes. Watch Microsoft struggle trying to compete with that. It would be really difficult for them to persuade other DVD manufacturers to alter their boxes to play MS games. But Sony is the biggest manufacturer of DVD players. I'm afraid soon it will be game over for MS in the console wars.
I'm fairly sure they'd give you $100 if you go out and buy one of their $40,000 cars in return. :-)
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Yeah, but as so many have already pointed out, they lose even more money on every xbox they don't sell.
Yes, but that kind of loss is limited to their already-manufactured inventory. If buying Xboxen for Linux use becomes popular, there's the potential for the cumulative sum of losses per sale to exceed what they might have lost in unsold units.
Are their no legaleze terms on the Xbox units that prevent this kind of creative misuse? With the lengths to which they went to secure the Xbox from tampering, and with previous industry experience with unexpected Linux-ized hardware, they would seem (IMHO) to be foolish to not have expected this to happen.
A quick check at Walmart.com reveals that Xboxen can be had for $199. An 800Mhz Microtel PC can also be had for $199.
What do you want to do? Do you want a $200 PC? Buy the Microtel. Do you have an afternoon free to show off your 133t h4x0r 5k1115? Buy an Xbox and mod it.
I bought the dreamcast ($50) for it's hackability. I think it's worth the $50, hands down. No hardware mods are essential. The possibilites are not endless, but quite attactive. I think these people who are hacking the Xbox are simply paving the way. When the Xbox can be found at the Pawn shop for $20, I'll buy at least one if I know it can run linux. Heck, I'll be watching the prices over the next 6 months. With the console war, the PS2 is the clear winner. How long until Sony drops the price? How long until Xbox drops price to follow suit? How long until Xbox gets cheap enough to be used as multifunction appliances?
To the people who like to tear things apart and install linux, I wish you the best of luck. You are the geeks who make linux work the way it does.
There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
:wq
For all things that can be done with Linux installed in the console, I would like to be able to replace the Xbox drive with a higher capacity HDD and be able to partition it (one partition for a Linux filesystem, the other one for a regular 10GB Xbox filesystem).
If not possible, then how about mounting a NFS filesystem from another computer in the network, leaving the internal HDD untouched? I would still need to mount a remote filesystem in order to access my nearly 50GB worth of A/V files, as they won't fit into the regular Xbox HDD.
Lastly, a very important point here is that even though it is very useful to be able to convert the Xbox into a cheap and powerful $200 computer and use it as an A/V player in my huge TV, etc., I still want to use the machine in the way it was designed for, and that means running my legally owned games flawlessly.
What I really need is a non-intrusive Linux installation, such as the one in the Dreamcast. I know it might never be possible to run unsigned code without modifying the hardware, but THAT would be too much to ask.
- Otaku no naka no otaku, otaking da!!!
just for those who happened to be given an X-box and were unable to return it, right? Or maybe you stole one and couldn't pawn it... riiight...
Cool...I may have to go buy an X-Box now.
Do us all a favor and please don't. Microsoft may lose money if you buy one, but it loses more if you don't. A console's fate is decided on how many are sold, it has nothing to do with sales of games. So when geeks start making Xboxes fly off the shelf, just to install Linux, it still makes the Xbox look like a high selling success. If the Xbox is seen as a viable console with high hardware sales, Microsoft will have have the last laugh. Then we'll see Xbox 2, 3, and 4, a prospect no one around here wants to see. Let the Xbox sit on the shelf , and then MS may get the hint and get out of the console business when it sees that they aren't selling.
Nanite
Yeah, Small.
God is real unless declared integer.
You can easily find many articles on this... I have in the past.. the reason the lose is they are selling it for less than it costs to make.
Strawmen left and right.
What does morals have to do with anything? Why should that even enter into the question at all? Linux isn't moral or immoral it has nothing to do with that at all. You won't be judged by anyone on which operating system you chose to put on your xbox. You won't get rejected from the gates of heaven for modding your xbox.
Besides, how does this affect you except on a superficial level?
Can't you do that now if you buy a video card with a TV out? I don't get it. I agree it's neat to be able to use an xbox for more then it was intended, but come on.
Hellooooooooo fanboi!
How's your ps2 gamers club subscription holding up?
- Toby
Hey I just published a HOW-TO on mods to allow using your XBox for a boat anchor. Anybody interested?!!
I guess they're just not built for security. :o)
Hic iacet Arthurus, rex quondam rexque futurus.
How do I get Xbox on my linux [box] ?
--
Todd
Yes, but that kind of loss is limited to their already-manufactured inventory. If buying Xboxen for Linux use becomes popular, there's the potential for the cumulative sum of losses per sale to exceed what they might have lost in unsold units.
Yes, that's true. But for now, this setup isn't practical so that's not likely. And I think you're right that if it did catch on, MS would bring out the lawyers.
Also, I think most slashdotters would much rather see the headline "XBox a Total Failure" than "XBox Sales Skyrocket - Reasons Unclear."
... rice, rice, gravy
It's immoral because we all know how MS does business.
There used to be a company across the street from the one I worked at called netchameleon. They used to make PPP and TCP/IP stacks for dos, windows 3.1, and other operating systems. The majority of their business came from ISP bundles of their stack/PPP dialer.
Then MS decided it would be cool to include PPP in 95. Sales dropped, people got laid off.
Another good example is netscape.
And another one is BEOS
I'm sure there's a lot more companies to add to that list.
The biggest bitch people have with M$ products isn't so much the fact that they push other companies out with these practices, it's the inferior quality of this shit they shlep out.
Remember when
OOB
Used to make the 95 TCP/IP stack implode?
So is that enough ranting to justify my comment on why it's morally wrong to develop xbox on linux? No strawmen here, just facts.
Ive heard a million times here that Microsoft looses money by selling XBOXes for Us$200, and if we dont buy any games we are just srewing them.
THAT IS NOT TRUE!
The console gaming arena is moved by the percentage of market sharing. If Microsoft can demonstrate that he has sold a respectable percentage of the market, they can force the gaming development companies to create more games for their console and to make the snowball bigger for them.
So even if we buy the console and we dont buy any games -wich is not gonna happen, because if we have a game console at home you ended up using it anyway- Microsoft can get more market share and better games for its console anyway.
CCV.
I normally hate every attempt to snoop my systems. But I can see one good thing about the X-Box chip scanning online.
Now, I don't have a X-box or even played with it, so I don't know all that the chip mods can do. But let's assume that the gaming network catches on and there will be some very popular online games on the x-box. Couldn't one imagine that some would produce mod-chips that enabled the user to cheat the games in some way? Either by a function in the chip or by modified games.
Cheating ruined my enjoyment with playing Counterstrike( that and the games was getting old), so I would like to play a game where I was sure that nobody cheated. With every major game coming out these days, there's a constant battle with cheats, so the checking of the system could be a way to ensure a fair game.
Still I agree that it sucks and the fact that some servers insisted on scanning my files on my PC for cheats, before I could join a Counterstrike server, really made me say enough is enough. The X-box is not a pc, so maybe most people will not find it quite as bad. I don't know, I'm not going to buy a X-box anyway.
my sig
I seem to recall adding memory to my pocket calculator, so I really can't get down on these guys. It's all about fun, and a sense of accomplishment. It really doesn't have much to do with whether it's worth it or not on some abstract level.
Hic iacet Arthurus, rex quondam rexque futurus.
This is to try and convince the SETI@Home people to produce binaries for the Dreamcast and PS2 linux enviornments, isn't it?
If we hack the X-Box to run linux, won't that be an i386 platform console that can run seti@home? And then we can say, "See! People *DO* want to run seti@home on their game consoles. When can we get dreamcast and PS2 binaries to download?"
I keep reading MS is losing money on every single xbox they sell
/. when someone brings it up. It's no longer true -- but Microsoft would love to have you believe it. (Makes you think you're getting a good deal, for one.)
Ancient history. This has been gone over before from time to time on
Yeah, the first year, they had to write down R&D costs, pay start-up costs like for molds for the housing, circuit board design and low-volume prototypes, etc, etc. On a per-unit basis that first year, yeah, they probably took a hit. They wrote that off against taxes.
All that stuff is now paid for. Incremental costs for case, circuit boards, etc is as low as you'd expect of anything else with that kind of production run. Hardware costs (chips, memory, drive, etc.) are lower now than a year ago. Et cetera, et cetera.
Margins may be thin with the lowered price, but they're not negative.
Besides which, every XBox they sell is one more they can point to when talking to game designers, trying to convince them to develop games for the XBox exclusively or at least before any other platform.
-- Alastair
Please can anybody tell me what the pupose of that exercise is? What can you actually do on a Xbox running linux? AFAIK there is no way to even hook up a decent monitor to the thing, and most of the hardware that is in there isnt that useful either. Why not just buy a second hand PC and get more linux power for the same money? I really dont understand it ...
That might be the case, but seeing "XBox Sales Skyrocket -- Game sales decline" would be even better IMHO.
-- If you can't laugh at yourself, someone else will do it for you.
Let's say tha MS spends $400 to make an Xbox and sells it for $200.
-400$ (what it cost)
+200$ (What you give MS)
= -200$ (What MS 'makes')
-400$ (what it cost)
+0$ (What you give MS)
= -400$ (What MS 'makes')
Michael Loves Me!
Question: Are the HOWTO's mentioned hosted on an XBOX running Linux and Apache? That'd be cool...
Point: The DMCA only kicks in if you are circumventing encryption (i.e. to play illegally copied games). If I'm correct, this setup uses the mod chip to entirely bypass the existing OS. So you aren't even running the OS that has the decryption. It should only be illegal if you employ some Linux based software to then circumvent encryption on commerical software or games.
I can't see how the DMCA could be used against someone just running Linux and freeware on the Xbox.
Come play Moral Decay!
Actually, by buying an X-Box and running Linux on it, you're actively contributing to the downfall of Microsoft. Here's how:
Microsoft relies on selling game licenses to make a profit off of their whole X-Box venture. And in order to remain competitive with Sony's PSX-2 pricing, they've had to heavily slash their unit costs. The net effect? They take a loss on each unit sold ($150, maybe more?), with the expecatation that if they sell enough games per unit, they'll be able to make that money back (and then some). By buying an X-Box, you're hitting MS where it hurts...... and no, companies don't have nuts.
Except if we assume they only produce as much as they sell, they'd be worse off if I bought one, and didn't buy any games or peripherals, as opposed to somebody else buying that specific unit and going out and spending their money on the money-making games for MS.
:)
:)
My theory is that the Xbox will still be sold - the question is more like, did they sell it to somebody who is eventually going to turn it into a profit generating sale, or did they sell it to me so I can banish it to the closet? In that case, it seems me not buying one Xbox is going to hurt them less because it increases the chances that somebody is going to buy it for the games.
I see what you're saying, but if they end up selling every last xbox, I'm not really hurting them worse by not buying one. But I can cause a hit on their ROI numbers by buying one and flushing it down the toilet because its one less sale that will turn into profit through the game licensing side.
"Old man yells at systemd"
But by pointing to the exta # X-boxen they sold they have the leverage they want to sell the development kits and licences etc to the 3rd party developers and they still make their money it's not until the NEXT Xbox when the developers say screw you, we didn't make nay money last time we're going with Sony. ....that's when MS finally loses money (if they were too dumb to notice that game sales were low and duck out of the market prior to Xbox2)
I added a turbo switch to my TI-85, fun stuff. I'm just saying that what he wants s/he can already get, and have it look and perform much better. Since s/he won't have to hack any hardware (only software) and won't have to reboot.
Personally I can't stand rebooting my ps2 from normal to linux mode to do programming with it. I really want to get another one but I'm not going to spend the money yet.
but it's not immoral what they did, just ruthless business practice. Sucks that smaller companies are not as ruthless as MS, but that's the way it goes.
Anyone who tries to compete with MS knows the rules, they haven't changed them since the DAY they were founded. If you know your MS history, they have acted in a consistant manner.
It's the companies fault if they only made one product and never diversified what they made.
BEOS was a great product, but it was not good enough to switch to. The drawbacks were more then the advantages.
Netscape was an example of illegal but not immoral practices.
Sorry that you love computers and hate MS, it's a fact of life, deal with it. It's like loving cars and hating roads.
If you think that because some people got fired through MSes actions makes them 'immoral' then I would venture to state that through their actions, more people then ever have jobs in the IT industry. If they were the number one server OS then almost everyone would have a job because it would take that many people to keep that infastructure going!
If you want to buy a system to hack on then buy a Dreamcast. They're cheap (about $40) - and you can run Linux to your heart's content on the thing.
Not only Linux, either - lots of homebrew games, NetBSD and even QNX
There are even lots of good, and now very cheap, commercial games available for it.
Sure, it's not as advanced as an Xbox or a PS/2, before someone makes that very obvious point. But that is not what we are about, is it? The fun for many of us is in subverting the manufacturer's intentions and doing something unorthodox with the hardware - well the DC's the best for that.
And I see what you are saying. If they don't sell them all, my case works. But, if they do sell them all, your case works.
Michael Loves Me!
2 bucks and a trip to radio shack and this is easily accomplished. (SPST or DPDT micro toggle, depending on the style of mod)
Thing is, people want to mod so they can swap in a 100 gig hard drive (anything bigger xbox cant use) and copy everything they rent from blockbuster to it. Or swap in a PC DVD drive which will read CD-R(W)/DVD-R(W). (The xbox has trouble with cdr)
Same thing with linux. It wastes up yer hard drive, putting it 'back the way it was' isn't so easy.
Much harder to switch. Though, not impossible.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Then MS decided it would be cool to include PPP in 95. Sales dropped, people got laid off.
My graphic design teacher had a similar example. As recently as 20 years ago, there were these things called "Typesetting shops" wherein you would pay megabucks to set type on a page. Somewhere around $60 CDN per page. Then along comes Apple and makes a computer that can do all that typesetting stuff in the comfort of your own home, and output it to a laser printer for relatively free.
Guess what happened to the typesetting shops.
That's what happens to people who make a business doing something that can easily be done better once someone has the idea to implement it.
Y2K Compliant since the late 1890s
" How much energy and effort has been expended to get linux to run in some marginal fashion on the Microsoft Xbox? Imagine if instead that effort had been used to improve linux. Which end result is better?"
Well, you see, the situation where people tell you what to code (because it's useful) rather than you coding what you want to is called having a job.
Coding what you want to is a hobby.
If I want to spend an inordinate amount of time trying to get freeBSD running on a kitten then that's between me and the kitten (and possibly the RSPCA...).
Who are you to tell me what to code ? I'll code what I damn well want to, motherfucker!
graspee
I'd think, any sane game software company would look at the games sales figures first and only then on the number of X-boxes sold. Especially if everybody [in the business] knows that X-boxen are being modded for other uses.
>> Besides, you're still giving your cash to
>> Microsoft. Nope, yer not.. M$ loses money (a lot of money) on each xbox purchase.
Please stop this nonsense.
In my first year studying mechanical engineering I have learned that, if you can't sell a product you already built for profit, it is more profitable to sell it below your own cost then not to sell it at all. So even if M$ loses on every Xbox they sell they still make more profit with every sold Xbox.
Furthermore, as the development costs are already paid, an increase in sales numbers diminishes the loss on an individual Xbox.
So once and for all: Buying an Xbox is supporting M$ regardless what you do with it
He saw some dirty arabs and fired. Too bad it was just some friendly kurds, BBC reporters and his fellow cowboys.
A video card with TV-out and the about the same 3D performance (say Geforce4 440MX) costs about $100, and it doesn't do much sitting there by itself without a PC to put it in. Admittedly, if he just wanted TV-out and didn't care about 3D it may cost less than $50 (say Geforce2 MX200).
is it just me or would it seem somewhat dumb to buy a M$ product (whihc gives M$ money) for the purpose of installing Linux on it? I understand the people who run the linux xbox site that they want to be able to do that but other than proving you can do - whats the point - why not just stick to linuxfying your dreamcasts whihc is easier and cheeper (and we all know cheeper is better - otherwise we wouldnt be using linux in the first place)
Ave Molech Setting
There is a valid reason for doing this. Nothing ruins a good multiplayer game like cheaters. If an Xbox can be modded to allow one to cheat, it will be. Especially when you consider how hard it can be to distribute a patch with console games.
Slashdot's policy is that the NYT is so useful and referenced by so many stories that it shall be the one exception to their rule.
They are both SLOW AS HELL.
Yes, I am the guy who plays Unreal Tournament in low-grav mode with full mobility in both ground and air.
Yes, I'm the guy whos Java games move at 30 pixels per frame.
Yes, I'm the guy who pays for 500kb/s internet access.
Yes, I'm the guy who uses X to play games on his older laptop while using his Server's processor and ram. X11R6 not OS-X X-box XP etc.
For the record, my iBook running OS X had xfree installed before any X-box. And Unreal Tournament is a hell of a lot faster than Halo.
I by no means support OS X over Linux as a server OS, but for a single-user laptop with commercial games it rocks. I am in the process of moving my software towards supporting it. It's executable format (standard binary inside of a directory) is a much faster version of the JAR idea. It shows innovation, and I'd be interested in working on the project.
This concludes my monolouge. Hope you learn from it without concidering me just another moronic teen programmer (8 years of experience, half my life.)
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
How is getting Linux to run on yet another platform not improving Linux? Linus himself has stated that the goal of Linux is world domination. Getting Linux to run on a platform where it didn't use to run furthurs that goal. It seems to me like they are spending effort to improve Linux.
"Those who would sacrifice essential liberty for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Anybody consider the possibility that Microsoft may have butchered the signature crap on the xbox in the same manner as they did with CryptAPI?
Any way to get a certificate and create another certificate with an issuer of Microsoft or something?
just a stray thought from the void...
"better than Microsoft does"?
The sentence "Microsoft do understand business" makes as much sense as AYBABTU.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
That would be the worst outcome...it would immediately blamed on piracy, which would prompt a call for "more anti-piracy laws and measures".
WARNING: This sig does not contain a joke
Cant open the HOWTO URL as of Saturday 7th Sept. at 1:30 am Eastern, what about you guyz ?? Got the following error message ..
/home/groups/x/xb/xbox-linux/htdocs/articles.php on line 2
/home/groups/x/xb/xbox-linux/htdocs/articles.php:2 ) in /home/groups/x/xb/xbox-linux/htdocs/articles.php on line 3
.......
Warning: Failed opening 'config/stdio.php' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/local/lib/php') in
Warning: Cannot add header information - headers already sent by (output started at
Error message trunccate
-- We are born naked, wet and hungry. Then things get worse.
I'd personally like to see FreeBSD or OpenBSD on the X-Box. Thats when I'll buy a used one and play around with it.
(honestly not meaning to advertise a seller, but it's the only link I had handy)
From the description:
9 wires only
Full BIOS update possible
Works with all import games (US, JAP and PAL)
Original BIOS remains unmodified
Works with online games
Import games works with standard AV cable in full color
The only "ModChip" 100% safe for future upgrades
Allows to use home-made software on the Xbox
Parallel port built-in - upgrade BIOS anytime without soldering
Play Import games
Play Backup games
There's discussion on the Xbox mod forums about all of this. Some people seem to think this is a good solution. For $60, I'd give it a shot.
How does one set up a Linux server on an XBox without buy any peripherals? Don't you need a keyboard??
Confucious says: Man who runs behind car gets exhausted.
// jeku.com
because THEY want to control how and when stuff is released. They want to sell differently priced versions of things in different countries.
The fact that some japanese game that will NEVER arrive in the US might be wanted by a few westerners is just a byproduct.