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When to Buy Technology Goods?
inblosam asks: "I am about to make 'the switch', but the thought came to me that there may be a strategic time of year to purchase technology goods. Of course once you buy something it is nearly outdated already, but there must be some marketing cycle for lowering prices and releasing new toys. Anyone seen any patterns that may help? I do have one hypothesis: Companies push their products that have been on the market for 10-11 months during the holiday season (December), then afterwards drop the prices some and bump up the product with a new feature or size, etc. I believe this was the case for the iPod ($500 down to $300 ?), and even the Handspring Visor Edge was $300 when I bought it (November?) and then $169 three months later."
price drops 50%.
One thing to remember is that Apple tends to revamp a product category (consumer desktop/loptop, pro desktop/laptop) approx. every 18 months. This is by design. There are incremental upgrades during this time (larger iMac screen).
Gee, did I get a first post?
During the Christmas season, prices go up because retailers know people will pay.
:).
Go to Mac fan sites and find out when all the Mac shows are (obviously that's when the new stuff comes out).
Sometimes new stuff comes out before Christmas for the first reason I listed. Photokina (the big camera show) starts next week I think. The new models announced will probably arrive on store shelves at the end of October (can't wait for a Canon G3
When you're looking at Apple purchases, try and keep the MacWorld schedules in mind. Usually MacWorld NY offers the 'big' updates and price shifts, but the other MacWorld events do too. It's a good idea to buy right after one, because prices aren't likely to change for a while.
My own pointless vanity vintage computing page
For Apple products its always best to get wait for revision after a major product overhaul.
Early adopters get burned. Outside of the obviously faster chips, graphics cards, etc, which just goes with the territory of buying computers, with Apple you get the industrial design quirks that haven't been worked out properly.
In the original Titanium Powerbook the battery comes out if you twist the wrong way and the DVD drive can grind if the thing is at an angle at all.
If you are going to "switch," always take the second or third product revision from Apple. You end up better in the long run.
my general rule is to buy tech at least 1 or 2 yrs after it hits the market. Since I'm a student, I don't have money for cutting-edge, but I get last-year's cutting edge for half price, the initial bugs have been worked out (somewhat), and I can avoid what's been massively rejected. It depends on a) how fast the turnover is for the particular tech B) how much disposable income you have c) intangible factors like status and style, and how important that is to you.
For microprocessors and motherboards, prices are tied to the linewidth cycle.
:).
A couple of months after a new linewidth becomes available, you get a few marginally higher-speed samples at a huge price.
Over the next six months, speed ramps up by a factor of 2 and prices drop on the older stuff. During this time any new chipsets introduced for the new hardware mature.
6 months after a linewidth switch, buy from the low end of the new speed grade range. You'll get a good price, and won't be obsolete for a year or more (as opposed to the usual 6 months).
There should be similar cycles for RAM (twice as fast, since they step lithography in cycles twice as fine), but in practice this isn't the case. Because margins are so thin, you get the occasional upset that drastically affects price (sometimes with help - the warehouse fire that quadrupled RAM prices a few years back only affected 3% of production capacity, according to rumour).
Processors are driven by linewidth, and motherboards are driven by processors, but most other things are market driven and so not as easy to predict. Other posters seem to have a better handle on this than I do
This reminds me of my old manager when I did computer sales, he was an old used car salesman and he would always say "it's ALWAYS a good time to buy a computer."
But he was full of crap. A good example was my PowerMac 8100/110. It $4500 (even at edu discount), it took 60 days to deliver the machine due to delays caused by some idiotic porny easter egg they found in the OS CDs and they had to master new CDs for ALL their stock. 2 weeks after delivery, they dropped the price $300. Mere weeks later, the machine was discontinued and replaced by far cheaper, faster models.
Another good example is my Powerbook G3/500, purchased 30 days before the G4/500 was released at the same price. But that one I don't regret, because I paid for the machine with the 30 days of work for one specific job.
So what you could do is just ask ME, and whenever I buy, that's the WRONG time to buy. FYI, I just bought a new dual-1Ghz machine.
I deal in the retail computer/technology world, mainly compaq, epson, HP, and Envision(AOC) monitors.
:)
Never fails, pretty much every 3 months compaq replaces their desktop line, and 3-4 months their laptop line(presarios and evos alike I believe... I work with both). Stocking them gets to be a bitch in a small market like ours... we order frequent small orders so not to get stuck with old models. So, if we hit it wrong, we're without computers for a week, because the old stock runs out, but the new stuff's still backordered.
Never fails, EVERY back-to-school season we run waaay short, especially on laptops(so figure your cycle starting end of august).
Epson and HP's printers keep a little more lifespan, usually 4-6 months, whenever the decide we need more faux-resolution increase, or a new type of ink/cartridge.
Monitors... a year or better product cycle, at least for CRTs anyway... havent changed much beside the (case) color in a while either.
I usually buy RIGHT at the end of product life.. get nice and cheap then.. but i hate it because the next product I see a week later is always sooo much cooler
Getting at your more general question, the answer is also now. You're always guaranteed that if you wait it will be faster and cheaper. So what? Then you don't get the use of the machine until a long time from now.
Find free books.
Buy an electronics product when you need it, or when it would make a substantial improvement in your quality of life.
Yes, prices usually drop somewhat after the winter holidays, but prices on most of today's consumer electronics will continue to go lower and lower as eqipment bought a few months ago becomes obselete because of the latest "advance." The solution: wait until you need something and buy it then. If you become obsessed with getting the best price on something and timing the market, you'll either never buy or drive yourself crazy.
I just did "the switch" at the begining of August because Apple was running a special. I bought the G4 933MHz system with 17" Apple Display and got a $400 mail in rebate.
The rebate was only good through something like August 20th. The reason for the rebate ( in my opinion ) was because the new G4s were brought out the day after the rebate ended.
So, I got the $400 discount but not the latest hardware ( the new G4s are all dual processors with DDR RAM instead of SDRAM ).
Discounts usually only come because the seller is trying to get rid of inventory to make room for something else.
Any self-respecting geek knows full well that whatever tech product you end up buying, no matter how well researched, no matter how "latest and greatest," will be instantaneously transformed into the lamest piece of outdated old fashioned stone knife and bearskin technology that even your grandfather wouldn't be caught dead using -- the *moment* you pay for it.
This is really somewhat understating the point. Several generations of product improvements are in the works typically before the latest gadget hits the market. This is reason for the pattern of precipitous prices drops a few months after a new toy is introduced (in addition to making money off of all the suckers that just have to have something as soon as it gets into the stores).
"player 4 hit player 1 with 0 stroms"
When you want it. You will almost always get screwed on the price. Then there's that rare gem you walk into.
:) Heck I am still amazed at the amount of folks who think monochrome PDA's are cool.
A good example is the iOpener thing. Here was a full PC being sold for 99 bucks. You will never beat it....well, at least not for a while. Not saying it was a great deal, but the form factor is what really made the price and feature set work.
I bought a Toshiba e740 right when it first came out (like with in a day of release) and then like a month later, the e550g came out (no huge deal there...I still had wireless and it didn't) and then CompUSA ran a deal for a few weeks where you got a free WiFi card too (DOH!). Oh well. The e550g is wonderfully done and by far the best of the XScale PocketPC's. Even better then the 3900 iPaqs. They are WAAAY over priced by HP....no matter how good that screen looks....plus no integrated CF or PC Card slot kind of sucks cuz now your on the acessory train. Buy a sleeve, then crap to put in the sleeve, then another sleeve if what you want to work in it doesn't work in a cf sleeve (Toshiba 2 GB PC Card drives). Then a NexiCAM sleeve and then and then..... Since they have no integrated CF slot, they should REDUCE the price if you ask me. The screens Toshiba are using aren't that bad. I am still waiting for someone to bring out a HAST screen in brightness, but with it viewable in sunlight (Casio always had great screens). NO the 3900 series isn't as bright as a CASIO screen. Sorry for the rant, but Pocket devices are going to be the way alot of folks access the internet. Better hope for the best!
Anyway, if you can afford it, buy it. Don't wait for the price to come down...you'll be waiting forever and still get bit.
Gorkman
Always buy whatever was really, really cool two years ago. When you get it it might be a little out of date compared to whatever is really, really cool right now. But the price will be less than half of what the early adopters paid and the drivers/software/etc. will finally be working right.
Jack William Bell
- -
Are you an SF Fan? Are you a Tru-Fan?
If you watch the Mac sites (MacNN, MacOS Rumors, Macintouch, Apple Insider, MacAddict) you'll find that they usually post info on when a given model is reaching what Apple calls End Of Life, i.e. they're about to discontinue that model. That is reliably a good time to buy as you'll avoid getting the bugs of a 1.0 product and usually get some good toys as Apple tries to clear out their inventory. ;->
Remember, Apple is massively paranoid about excess inventory since they were so imfamous for having it in the bad old pre-Steve days.
Of course, you would be even better advised to buy a used Mac at a site like smalldog, macresq (where I bought mine), PowerMax, or the Powerbook Zone. Keep in mind that the useful life of a well cared for Mac (5300s and such notwithstanding YMMV) is about ten years.
Buy a model about a year old, max out the RAM, get a copy of Virtual PC, and score some two-version-old legit copies of your apps on eBay or the used mac sites, and you'll be stylin' on far less cash then you'ld think.
Speaking as both a former IT director in publishing and somebody who has set up stacks of machines for starving artists, that's what I'ld recommend.
Of course you could always drop by the Computing links section of my site and get even more advice
Rustin
Data is the lever, rigor the fulcrum, brains the force that drives it all.
Oftentimes with a new version/generation of a product is being introduced (i.e. with a new OS, features, form factor, etc) you can usually get the previous version/generation at a really good price.
This is why I prefer to wait and buy older PC games and hardware (usually stuff that is a 1 generation behind the latest stuff). The added advantage of doing so is that the product tends to be more refined/less buggy.
With specific regards to Apple, right now is a good time to buy a system that DOES NOT have Jaguar on it. I recently picked up an iMac with OS X (for my wife) and, compaired with to the plain-jane iMac, we got it for $200 cheaper (Canadian $) plus ours came with a CD burner and an extra 128 MB or RAM.
Obviously, they were trying to get rid of their non-Jaguar inventory at my local BMac store. We also got a coupon so that we can buy Jaguar for $30 CND (it should arrive any day now).
Several people have written and said that you should buy systems 1-2 years after they're first released to maximize reliability.
I've bought lots of Macs over the past 20 years, and since '95 or so I've seen a pattern develop. Here's my theory: buy the most expensive brand-new system you can afford at the instant you're ready to buy.
My first Mac laptop-- a PowerBook 160-- cost me $3,000, and I used it every day for five years. It was my primary-- only!-- machine until I bought my iMac. I regret that purchase, but only a little bit. Both of my iMacs were great, reliable little machines, and I never had a complaint about either of them, but I often wished I had bought machines with more oomph.
When the "speed holes" machines came out last month, I bought again. I found a friend who was willing to give me a few bucks for my iMac, and I plopped down $3,500 on a dual processor 1 GHz with a 17" studio display. It's fast, really fast, and it's got room to grow. I'll keep it for at least three years, I imagine.
But I know, and I accept, that Apple will release faster and better machines eight months or a year from now. It won't be too long before my top-o-the-line machine looks a little pale by comparison to the newest machines shipping. But that's not the point. The point is to get the very best system you can when you're ready to buy, and then be happy with it for as long as it takes to justify the purchase in your mind.
Wait five years then get it cheap on E-Bay! (I just got a Newton Messagepad 2100 for $72 that's become my new favorite toy.)
-- It only takes 20 minutes for a liberal to become a conservative thanks to our new outpatient surgical procedure!
I buy right after something big hits the market. I'd get a 2 GHz processor right after the 2.2s come out. A GeForce 3 right after the GF4 comes out. This gives you a good balance of near-cutting edge for a fair price. Your hardware stays up to date longer, and doesn't cost as much as the top of the line.
Oh shit! I forgot to click "Post Anonymously"...
Desktop: .. or even the DUAL 1GHz (If you have the cash) ...
... it has the Rage Mobility video card built in, so I don't imagine it to be a very solid "game machine" ....
... I would suggest waiting if you've got your eyes on the Powerbook ...
PowerMac DUAL 867 just got released, I imagine in 6 months apple will have another unit out, but until then, the Dual 867 is VERY AWESOME
Notebook:
Well, if you need a notebook I have recently purchased an iBook which is a G3 700MHz, but ya' know what, it runs great for applications (photoshop, final cut pro, office X, etc..)
The Powerbooks are very expensive for just an 800MHz
In fact you could purchase an iBook for $1499 on an apple loan for $30 a month and have plenty of money to buy a Dual PowerMac 867MHz.
Last year Best Buy sent my friends and I (ultimate electronic consumers) coupons for various percentages off items. Thinking the the stores out of stock during the big "coupon sale", our plan was to go the day before the sale, buy the item, and then return the following day and do a price adjustment with the coupon.
Much to my surprise, the price on the item I purchased had been raised 10% for the sale and conveniently enough my coupon was for 10%. Nice trick. I felt like an idiot for waiting in line to get my non-existant cash back.
And yes, shortly after Christmas the price dropped even lower than the price I paid to make room for the the new model which (I think) arrived in the spring.
But, since you asked...
The entire technology industry monitors your activities. As soon as you purchase a product, we lower the price. Dramatically.
Again, I'm very sorry.
Username taken, please choose another one.
Yes, a G4 tower refresh is in order for January Macworld, considering that Apple announced that OS 9 would not run on shipping systems starting in January.
Typically what Apple does is they will stop production of a model and let the retail channels empty out in the couple of weeks before a new hardware introduction. They don't want the overlap, though usually there are tower systems available for a while after the MacWorld introduction.
This coming MacWorld, however, I predict that there will be a run on G4 towers before the new models are introduced, because, for the people who aren't ready to switch to OS X, this is their last shot at buying a new G4 system. I predict that Apple is going to cut production beforehand, as usual, and the increased demand will dry up the channels rather quickly.
My advice is to either buy just before MacWorld, or call your MacWarehouse rep on a daily basis to guage their inventory and buy shortly after.
Define what you need. Don't settle for the advertised price, recognize the concept of mark-up. Be willing to pay good money for good gear, and don't always go with the prices offered at the first store you come to.
It helps to buy somethings over the summer when everyone's on vacation. Prices can be lower, the store more quiet and the sales people more relaxed and less stressed.
"There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some reason in madness."- Friedrich Nietzsche
I feel knowledgeable enough to say:
Last month.
No, I'm not being fecicious here, but I have seen, and experienced the best prices in July/August. Memory is cheap, and parts are cheap.
My guess is because people and companies just aren't buying much during the summer.
Whatever you do, avoid buying near Christmas. Even if you get a good deal, the extra strain on a dealer to work through Christmas will lower the quality of service, and possibly quality of parts you get.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
Slightly off-topic, but since you are thinking of switching, I encourage you to read about my experience and why I eventually switched back. Hopefully you won't run into the same situations I found myself in.
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
The question just cannot be answered. There is no single 'BEST' time to buy technology, no matter how quickly price drops off with time.
Instead, when you 'should' buy a technology depends on the tradeoff between how badly you 'need' that technology and how badly you need to save money. For some people, waiting 1 week or even 1 day for the end of the next MacExpo might be too long to wait to buy the latest/greatest Mac.
Do you HAVE to have the fastest computer out there because you're doing rendering or financial modelling or something really CPU intensive ? If your time is worth enough $, then maybe the time to buy the latest/fastest/greatest AMD/Intel chip or whatever is now. If, on the other hand, you're a hobbyist, then maybe you can make do with a slower CPU or the penultimate video card instead of the ultimate until prices drop.
My new computer's got the clocks / it rocks
but it was obsolete before I opened the box
That's my view on it.
I'm the Devil the Windows users warned you about.
[ -1, incoherent rambling ]
the coolest club on
I think it's a bot.
development.lombardi.com
Expressed, shall we say, interestingly? This is the second strangest post I have ever seen on slashdot. The strangest ever had been replied to, "Did anyone else read this as 'colorless green ideas sleep furiously'?" This is a reference to Naom Chomsky, who constructed that sentence to prove that is was possible to create language that was syntactically correct and meaningless. This however, is much more surreal than that. "Too much of what is not?" Right, a buddhist walks up to a hot dog vendor, and says "Make me one with everything." The hot dog vendor complies, and says, "That will be $5." The buddhist hands him a twenty and takes his hot dog. Then he waits for a while. Finally he asks, "Where is my change?" The vendor intones, "Change is within." The buddhist nods and walks away. THAT is too much of what is not, my friends. This is SO getting modded down... I wish I had some links to that other post that was really strange. By now this post is becoming a candidate for a pretty strange post, all by itself.
I think you may have issues... that aside...
Your premise is absurd. If macs were perfect - and I think they're the closest thing you can get nowadays, make of that what you will - then the computer won't interfere in getting work done. I'm sorry, but I don't use my computer to debug OS issues, I use it to get things accomplished. No crashing, no bugs, no issues, NO PROBLEM! If it lets me get my photo manipulation, movie editing, and essay writing done faster, then hey, so be it, I'm not going to complain.
The computer is a tool. Do you complain your wrench is boring because it never breaks? Your hammer head never falls off the handle so you lose interest in building things? I doubt it.
No one should be interested in tools themselves. Using the tools to do things, or making better tools, yes, but no one gets bored because their tools just work.
--Dan
I've been waiting for the NV30, but the time to buy a computer is when you need it. For the record, I'm getting a Shuttle SS51. I've been impressed with the little boxes younger brother and have over about fifteen at work now. Disconnect drive cables, undo two thumbscrews, slide drive out. I wish there were an AMD nForce2-based version out right now. <wah>
Like the parent post says (most funny, deserves a mod up):
Any self-respecting geek knows full well that whatever tech product you end up buying, no matter how well researched, no matter how "latest and greatest," will be instantaneously transformed into the lamest piece of outdated old fashioned stone knife and bearskin technology that even your grandfather wouldn't be caught dead using -- the *moment* you pay for it.
This equation says it all. I bundle both want and need into desire. All that is left is accounting for how these numbers are likely to change over time. See? If your desire for an improved computer will rapidly go down as still better ones are introduced, you should keep your current one (level of consumption) in order to increase your happiness. Eventually, it is likely that your desire will increase as vastly better machines with new features, etc, come out and at that point you will have to make a purchase to increase your happiness, or maintain the same level. Ultimately this all depends on the individual. This is probably not the specific answer the questioner sought, so I would also advise Thursday as a mighty fine technology buyin' day.
Accept a few basic things:
1) If you buy something 1 - 2 years old, it will depreciate slower.
2) Resale value should never be taken into account when buying computer equipment.
3) 1-2 year old equipment and it's associated drivers are less broken than cutting edge tech.
4) Only get power/stuff that you are going to use - it hurts very much to see unused stuff that you can't resell depreciate like computer equipment does.
http://pcblues.com - Digits and Wood
You should purchase your computer like you would buy a car. They say that you should buy a car after it's been used for 2-4 years because that way the price has depreciated the most that it ever will.
Thus I'm currently surfing the web on a trusty 486. Can you believe that it only cost me a mere 25 cents!?!?! And this post has only taken me a mere half an hour to do. Now that's using your money wisely! ;-)
The only thing that will stop you from fulfilling your dreams is you. - Tom Bradley
You can get the big, refrigerator sized SGI's for fractions of a penny on the dollar
Though I doubt you'll find deals on a mac, Thanksgiving is probably your best bet on
a tid=4 0
finding hot tech deals. Last year I got a 5400 RPM 60 gig
WD harddrive for $50.00 after rebates. Here
we are a year later and I still haven't been able to match that deal.
For keeping an eye on the day to day bargains,
try keeping an eye on:
http://forums.anandtech.com/categories.cfm?c
and
http://www.gotapex.com/deals.php
for good product reviews and comparison shopping, try:
Epinions
and the old standby for price comparisons,
Pricewatch
Typically, if you can beat the pricewatch price, it's a good deal, Like these in Tomorrow's Best Buy ad:
256 megs of 2100 DDR ValueRAM (by kingston) $40 after rebates.
48x12x48x Memorex burner $45 after rebates.
40x12x48x Digital Research burner $30 after rebates.
Mintek brand DVD/CD/MP3 player $56.92
Tech companies make their biggest margins off the newest, top of the line stuff. Unless you need the absolute fastest/best, buy stuff that is further down the curve.
Think how much more performance/capacity the money you save is going to buy in 18 months.
Nope, the top says Slashdot....
So many mac fans, I feel my pccentric slashdot has been slashdotted!
Anyway, to adress your question, Buy top of line when you're ready to pay. Break the time/money down into "time I would have waited vs money I paid per day" and see that for a buck or two a day, you really can have the top of line for a lot longer than if you would have waited.
- Yo Grark
Canadian Bred with American Buttering
Canadian Bred with American Buttering
Christmas clearly captures vendor interest. Students going back to school, and school administrators equiping their instutions with new hardware and software to start the year must also put some money in the bank. I know software vendors who target educational markets try hard to make sure they get a new release out in the summer to temp people into upgrading. I don't know much about the operation of federal and state government, but I've heard say that when the cycle's about over, and you still have cash, you better spend it.
If these represent peak demand times, then you might expect to see higher prices. But I really have no idea if there's any validity whatever to my armchair economics.
--Lawrence Lessig for Congress!
The best time to buy most technology goods is after the manufacturer discontinues the model you want. For example, the Minolta Dimage 7 digital camera came out at a price near $2000. It now sells on uBid for $600-700.
PC's are a little tougher because of their realtively short lifetime, but the rule there is to plot performance vs. price for the part you are looking at.When you do so it will immdiately be obvious that there is a 'knee' where the bang per buck drops off remarkably.
Speaking as a former Distribution Rep, the lowest prices that are offered to Retail and VAR/LAR customers tend to come at/near the end of the summer. Right now is the best time to purchase.
It's actually the best time to purchase, better than post-Xmas.
pi=sigma{n:0-infinity}[(1/16)^n][(4/(8n+1))-(2/(8n +4))-(1/ (8n+5))-(1/(8n+6))]
Why not buy used?
A lot of used items, some of which can be as old as two years or as young as two months, can be found for extremely low prices either on the internet through auction sites/used retailers or better yet, through friends. I have been using used hardware for the better part of my computer career simply because, as a student with little or no income, I have not had the opportunity to buy the latest-and-greatest. I cannot say that everything I own is used, but nothing I own I bought when it just came out onto the market.
People I know are usually against the idea of buying outdated technology, but I look at it this way: If I cannot come up with a justifiable cause for buying the latest technology, why buy? Why not get something half as fast or one generation older for about half to less than half price? Here is an analogy: if you plan to buy a car to commute to work, would you buy a brand new car? Would you buy a BMW or a V8 Mustang? NO, you would probably buy a used economy-class vehicle, something like an older Toyota Corolla or a Honda Civic.
Again, if you plan to surf the web, listen to music, word process and do basic computer tasks you don't really need a dual gigahertz G4, you need an iMac. But if you plan to edit video, work with graphics, play games only then is getting a faster machine a reasonable decision.
Buying anything is a matter of buying what you need at the price you want to spend. Now buying what you want...that is a different story.
Before you switch to Mac, you should ask yourself: Do I really need a Mac? Or does my PC do everything that my future Mac can do plus more? *evil grin*
Of course, this assumes I'd be caught dead giving any money to Best Buy.
CEE5210S The signal SIGHUP was received.
While many of the Apple rumors sites are filled with made-up information and idiotic speculation, if you sample a good cross-section, you'll find that in terms of predicting *when* new models are released, but not the *specs* of new models, those sites are pretty much right on. Things to look for: models beign listed as "end of life," vendors having low stock of certainmodels, new model numbers showing up. Macrumors does a pretty good job of collating the more substantiated rumors: http://www.macrumors.com/
Wordnik, a dictionary project which aims to collect
Its obviously different on the empty side of the fence, but in the pc world, if you are halfway smart you can get a blazing system cheaply if you do a few simple things.
Plan on it taking a while and build it from parts.
Buy a case*, mobo+proc, ram*
(if your old stuff wont work)
Make sure you shop around some.. dont just pop in local computer shop and start buying..
Use your existing video card and harddrive and go to work for a couple more weeks.. watch the sales and the hot deals forums on anandtech and such..
Then spend another couple of weeks pay checks getting top of the line stuff at half retail value because you shopped around and got a deal.
It all depends on the item you're looking to buy. With apple, the best time to buy is right after a new hardware release. If cost is an issue, the machine that was TOL as of 24 hours ago sundenly becomes much cheaper and is still a good machine. If cost isn't an issue, right after a new product release get's the the biggest and best with the most life time.
As for currently, I would not buy a TiBook or an iBook from Apple yet. They haven't had a serious update in nearly a year now, which means they're due for one soon. Powermacs and iMacs are the products to buy currently.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
I'm in the same boat as you, and I'm waiting for Apple to come back with the deal where they reduce the price on an iPod or something if you buy a G4. The best time to buy is when you can get the most for your money.
:)
I've noticed recently, though, that it doesn't matter anymore what you have. Most people only do a limited amount of stuff. The computers that Apple is selling should be good for a long time to come. They'll be good forever for Word Processing and watching DVDs and listening to music - the things we do most. Up until now, that's been sort of touch and go with some machines, but we've hit a time where our machines can do almost everything we need, with no need of future upgrades except to satisfy our egos and materialist imprintings.
Check the product pricing curve. For example, look at CPU's. We all woo at the higher-ghz offerings from AMD and Intel. However, those CPUs tend to have the worst price/performance ration. For example (looking at http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.html?i=169 7&p=2), the Athlon XP 2200+ is $147. The XP 2100+ (only 66 mhz slower) is $117. The XP 2000+ (133 mhz slower then the 2200+) is only $92. Comparing the 2000+ (1.67Ghz) to the 2200+ (1.8Ghz), you are paying 60% more money for an 8% increase in speed. Wouldn't that extra $55 be a lot better if spent on memory or a faster HDD?
A lot of hardware tends to be priced this way. You pay a premium for 'cutting edge'. You are paying more to be the first guinea pig to test their product. In a working environment, do you really want to do this?
Speaking of which, know what you are buying. Don't buy junk, it will come back to bite you. Buy from quality manufacturers who have a history of supporting their products. For windows machines, go with companies that release stable drivers. Also, try to figure out where you need the speed. Do you need fast HDD access? Maybe a Gigabit network. Or is it raw computing power? Read the reviews of the hardware, and check usenet to see if anyone has had any problems.
In short, do your homework, buy quality, and avoid the high-priced bleeding edge hardware.
Just my $.02
that my not be such good advice. usually when apple release a new range of machines they drop the MSRP on the older machines at the same time.
Nah, the SS51 has an AGP slot. LOL. This is my new gaming box - I'm putting in a GeForce4 Ti 4600 w/128MB RAM, with VIVO (TV in/out & stuff). I'll get all the goodies. :-)
The switch, eh? And when it breaks down and as an Apple tech I can confidently say when, you're going to have fun find Apple authorized repair techs. On a side note, considering 'the Switch' and all; Apple hasn't been exactly helpful in repairing their new Flat Panels and EMacs as of late. I can site three instances where the Mac was dead strait out of or days out of the box and Apple normally stonewalls the owners into sending it to us. Of course, I immedietly recommend if it's having problems strait out of the box, it should go strait back to apple, but normally the buyer buckles and the process just gets worse form there. I know, some of you have had your apple since 1904 and it hasn't once crapper out on you and admittedly, when Apple Care is good, it's really good. But when it's bad, it's super bad. have fun replacing, say, the motherboard outside of warrnety as well. They're pains. Let em go.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
Interesting that shops can raise prices just before the sale - there is a law in the UK that says an item must have been on sale for some period of time at the pre-sale price before the shop can claim it is in the sale. It's a bit more complicated since chains could probably do this in just one obscure location, but it helps to stop this sort of thing. Of course, there are probably other scams that are just as bad...
I tend to buy the latest neatest motherboard available and the cheapest processor it supports. Then a year or two later I'll buy the fastest processor supported by the same MBD and maybe some more memory. This way I get a system that's reasonably fast all the time and upgrades are much more affordable (never get to buy $300 CPUs).
Adjusting the price up 10% from the previous day's price when a 10% off sale starts is fraud, pure and simple.
CEE5210S The signal SIGHUP was received.
By then the [insert real cool technology] will be availible, or you'll get your top-of-the-line thing today cheap, and so on. But if you ask for my recommendation, this is it:
For the people who do rendering or video editing or some other activity that *always* need more power, figure out how much you're willing to spend over the next, say 3 years. Are you better off buying a new CPU/GFX card once, twice or three times over that time period? Say you have 300$. What is the better choice of:
a) 300$ card now to 2005
b) 150$ card for 1,5 years, then a new 150$ card
c) A $100 card every year.
And if you're a gamer - actually buy when the game you like chokes on your hardware (which may be sooner or later than you planned) - but your price point you should determine in the same way.
Buying at a specific time of the year I don't buy into. Various components change pricing rapidly and often independantly so that for a complete PC it evens out (at least compared to the steady decline you'd get by waiting until you actually need it), if you're interested in a specific component that is mainly decided by launch of new models (own or competition, typically gfx cards) or over/undersupply (typically RAM), not time of year. Of course summer vacation and Christmas affects demand, but usually they plan for this so there's not any big drops in price.
Of course this assumes that:
You have as much to spend now and in the future. If you're studying now, but in a job in a year or two, things are different. You have expectations of the technological advancement they're *going* to make. Tough one, but look at the roadmaps (but add some mark-up due to delays, things rarely happen when the roadmaps say they will) and you'll have some clue.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
When I made the 'switch' I used a strategy not discussed here:
Top Product Line - Least expensive offering
Instead of buying a tricked out iBook, I bought the low end PowerBook G4. That way, I am in the product line with the most features, but I don't pay a significant percentage premium for Mhz, etc.
I used a car example to convince myself. (if you don't agree with the makes I choose, pretend I choose two you do like) I can buy a top of the line Honda with leather and such for about the same as a BMW 325i without talking navigation and expensive sports packages. For the money I would have wasted on so-so Japanese Leatherette, I could have German engineering under the hood. Get it?
It's the old 80/20 rule
As in many things in life, 20% of the work yeilds 80% of the results. In the same way, my Powerbook G4 has 2 FireWire ports, built in Airport dual head capability, IR port, and a much larger screen - all things you cann't add on to a "Top of the Line iBook" at about the same price point. I didn't pay 20% more for a faster processor, and I got 95% of the same stuff.
"Yeah Baby, you're really switched on!" - Austin Powers
I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
Just my personal opinion.
At introduction, you are most apt to have frustrations with long delivery times, limited selection of configurations, and various teething pains because, for some reason, in the computer marketplace, ALL products are rushed out slightly before they're ready.
Also, at introduction, the only reviews you can find are from magazines that are beholden to the vendor, have received early models that may not match the production version, and are written by reviewers who barely have time to confirm that the whizzy features are THERE and haven't had time to wring them out and see whether they actually work. And will usually belong to the "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" school and won't mention a problem IF the manufacturer claims that it will be fixed in the production version.
About six months is the sweet spot.
The machine is still more or less "new." New enough that it has most of it's useful life ahead of it--where "useful life" means the new software works with both the old OS and the new OS, the new OS works with the hardware, your model is one of the ones the SQA teams are actually testing with, etc.
The machine will have been out long enough that you can read newsgroups and vendor's forum sites etc. and find out whether people are experiencing frustrations (like the Cube "cracks") and what they are.
In all likelihood, what you see on the Web site you're ordering from will actually be available, and you won't have to agonize over having to to take a high-end bundle in order to get one high-end component.
The worst of the teething pains will be over. You won't find that the box has a slightly old set of OS CD's in it and a coupon to get the up-to-date ones... the most urgent bugs will have been found and patches available for them, etc.
Since the machines will be in reasonable supply, dealers will be dealing and the "street price" will have reached some reasonable equilibrium.
Oh, and six months is _probably_ soon enough that you won't find a MAJOR new model or SIGNIFICANTLY better deal being announced IMMEDIATELY after you commit to the purchase.
One other thought. The normal pattern for a well-managed product is for the overall value to get smoothly better with time. By "overall value" I mean that at first you pay list price, then you pay list price but they throw in some extra RAM, or a good deal on a display you actually were planning to buy anyway... then maybe a small price cut... the maybe an incremental model upgrade with a new model name or number and a slightly faster processor, etc.
While the product is in that "smooth" phase, it doesn't matter enormously when you buy.
Conversely, a SUDDEN, SIGNIFICANT drop in price (or increase in overall value) is usually a signal that a firesale is in progress to clear out old inventory. IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT, that's a good time to buy. But, the likelihood that you'll feel some remorse when you see the new model is high. And it's also the point at which the "useful life" of your machine has decreased noticeably.
If you WANT a firesale bargain, one strategy is to be poised to be immediately after the new models are introduced--because a) you'll at least know exactly what you're missing out on, and b) you can USUALLY find the old models, usually at the best prices they'll ever have, at least for a short while after the new models come out.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
I had been bugging the wife since January to let me buy a mac. First an iBook and then I got greedy and started pushing for a Titanium powerbook.
She did not budge for months.
Then two weeks ago she made me an offer I could not refuse: I could either:
1. Buy an iBook now, and later, "maybe", she would get me the Ti Powerbook. Or,
2. Not buy an iBook now, and later, "big maybe", she would get me the Ti Powerbook.
My reply was "duh."
I actually lucked out big time. I got a 600MHZ iBook with a retail copy of MS Office V:x (over $400), 256 MB ram (that's a $70+ factory upgrade) and Airport ($100) for $1450. And the seller was nice enough to pay for the 2-day air shipping. The laptop was pristine and I absolutely adore it. And I am the guy that usually starts his rants with this disclosure: I am a card-carrying Microsoft-dot-whore.
Yet I am having the time of my life. The laptop is tiny and really light, so I don't feel it on my backpack. The Airport card works great with the D-link AP I picked up on eBay for $80 the same day. I also got an iPod, which rocks for my daily metro rail commute.
Later I bought BBEdit Pro ($79) to help me with one of the last things that keeps me tied up to Windows: my addiction to EditPlus.
The 12-in screen is perfect, and at the office I just plug it into a 19-in monitor, so no complaints here (even at 12-in the screen is plain beautiful, much nicer than my last two ThinkPads).
Of course, I am looking forward to the Titanium Powerbook, but I am having the time of my life with my iBook. Had I dediced to buy it retail (which would be 700 MHZ instead of 600 MHZ) I would had paid $1500 just for the laptop with 128MB of ram. I would have had to buy Ms Office for about $450 (I am still shocked that it was an original, I expected the guy to screw me and send me a CDR) and the Airport card for $100.
I can only tell you to forget about the obsolescence threat. Macs retain their value really well. Notice how you can buy a $15,000 Dodge and after 2 years its value drops by half, but a VW may lose only a couple grand in the same amount of time. Macs are built very nicely, I installed Jaguar on a blueberry mac G3 and it ran just fine. It was not a scorcher but it was more usable than any windows PC that was built at that time and is still lying around.
The most pleasing part of having the mac is not having to thinker with it. Even as solid as XP is when compared to 98 (yeah, it is very relative but you have to acknowledge XP only sucks half as much as 98), I always felt like XP is a tweak in progress. Its like having a kickass muscle car that you have to go every morning, open the hood and check the carbs for minor adjustments. The mac runs like a car with a solid state ignition. It just runs.
I submitted my switch story to Apple. I told them I still sleep 4 hours a night, because the hours I used to waste keeping my PC running are now spent doing stuff on the mac.
Get your mac, use it for 6 months and if Apple has issued something better then decide if it is worth the trouble to grab the new one and sell the old one. I will not be selling mine when I get the Powerbook, since the wife is already starting to show interest in the iBook, and once my little boy starts school I might get him an eMac.
Here's a different perspective on planned obsolecence:
I bought a Sony DSC-S70 Cybershot digital camera in Summer 2000. At the time it was the best (screw you Nikon) 3.3 megapix camera, and it had a Carl Zeiss lens that was just beautiful. A month or so ago I realized my trustworthy camera is already 2 years old, which would make it a dinosaur. Or not? 2 years later I still have people praise my photos, and the automatic reaction to my photos is always "what kind of camera did you use? These pictures are really sharp!"
I toyed with the idea of upgrading to the DSC-S85 but realized my camera is just great and there is no reason for me to upgrade. Maybe you will get your mac and like it so much that when the next one comes up you won't feel like you were left behind. Just buy the fastest one you can afford and do not pay Apple prices for ram, that is what eBay is for! I got my 256MB stick for $46 instead of the $150 Apple wanted.
Pedro
----
The Insomniac Coder
Read the rumor rags like mosr.com, etc. Whenever most of them start agreeing a new model will be coming out soon (hints like supply shortages in the chain...), do not buy anything. This just means that for the same money you just spent, you'd have gotten much more sometimes just days later.
NEVER buy just before one of the big Mac expos.
Now that's a SlashDot-ism I've never seen before. Definately.
facetious
Do you check a dictionary when unsure? Why Not?
One simple rule for its versus it's
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/A ppleStore.woa/22/wo/MXDi61dDSKewQp3ZJr/0.3.0.3.34. 7.0.SpecialDealsFrontPagePromo.0.0.0.0.3.1.1.0
Apple's Special Deals page has fairly good deals on refurbished products.
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
Don't get me wrong, it eventially gets fixed or replaced.... Normally after wasting everybodies time when apple should have said "DOA? Send it back in and as soon as we recieve it, we'll send you another one AND extend your apple care for a year."
And granted, I am apple authorized, but as soon as I crack it open, it gives apple even more excuses on what could possibly be wrong. At least if I just build my PC, I can warrenty the individual parts manufacturer or easily find another source to buy from. Oh well.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
His explanation was that things would max our around Christmas then oversupply would kick in as summer came by. By the end of the summer, prices would bottom out and the cycle would start again for Christmas.
Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
Most of the time, people aren't running huge number-crunching applications that max out the CPU for long periods of time. In such applications, assuming the application itself dos not take advantage of two CPUs (not many do), a single CPU running at 2X MHz would be twice as fast as a dual CPU running at X MHz.
However, a much more common situatuion is to max out the CPU for short periods - you're doing something for which you expect a response very soon. When this happens on a single CPU machine, the machine effectively becomes unusable - it has no CPU left over to do anything else. Sure, your OS is supposed to take care of timeslicing multiple tasks in a well-behaved way, and for the most part, it does, but nevertheless, when there's a task trying to use 100% of your CPU, you're going to know about it in terms of the responsiveness of your machine.
Unless, of course, you have two CPUs. Now, when some CPU-hogging task maxes out CPU #1, all that happens is your OS runs other tasks on CPU #2 - you effectively have a hardwired throttle that prevents any single app from slowing your machine to a crawl. Suddenly, the fact that most apps don't exploit dual CPUs is a positive advantage - it means your machine almost always has capacity to spare.
As a result, the dual CPU running at X MHz, other things being equal, will seem faster and more responsive overall than the single CPU running at 2X MHz. With most usage patterns, it is.
Besides, in the exceptional cases where you're using long-running intensive number-crunching apps, it's often possible to find a version which supports dual CPUs, thus eliminating any advantage which the single-CPU machine might have.
An analogy I've used for non-techies is to engines: think of a single-cylinder engine compared to a two-cylinder engine, each with the same overall capacity. Assuming you know anything about engines, which would you rather have in your car? It's not a perfect analogy technically, but it does communicate the flavor of the difference that dual CPUs makes.
Apple has a press release regarding this. The original poster is correct the new line of Macs coming in Jan 2003 will not be able to boot to OS9 at all.