Telcos Play Both Sides of Telemarketing War

Monoman writes "Most Slasdot readers already know this but CNN has an article about how the telcos are reaping profits from selling your phone number to the telemarketers, and selling customers ways to block the telemareketers, and selling telemarketers ways to get around the customers who are paying to have telemarketers blocked and... I think you get the picture. It is nice to see stuff like this in the mainstream media." So either both sides pay the local Baby Bell for its protection racket, or you just pass a law and the problem goes away.

Comments

Whatever, I have a cell phone

[anthony_dipierro]

I don't get telemarketers.

Re:Whatever, I have a cell phone

[Strange Ranger]

The only reason you don't get telemarketers on your cell phone is that you pay for incoming minutes. When we start getting incoming minutes for free the telemarketing war will very likely be waged on that front as well.

Re:Whatever, I have a cell phone

[Enry]

If you have done business with the company, it's not illegal, but if you have never done business with them, it's illegal for them to call your cell phone.

Re:Whatever, I have a cell phone

[Dimensio]

Yes, but it's kind of like e-mail spammers. They don't care if it is illegal, because they don't care about anything but their bottom line. If there's little chance of you pressing charges, they'll do it anyway.

This is why you should always press charges if a telemarketer calls your cell phone. Bleed 'em dry.

Re:Whatever, I have a cell phone

[Vinum]

Good thing my 3-year old daughter screens all my calls for me on my cell phone and home phone. She does a good job, if it is someone I know she is happy to hear from them. If she doesn't know them she babbles on the phone for awhile and eventually hangs up. :) I am cautious because I already happen to have a mechanism in place that records all calls at my house, for my own protection in case my daughter actually agreed to buy something (or her mother called and threatened my life again, heh).

Kids are great, they also know how to grab the mouse and click on "agree" on those click through licenses. I haven't had to agree to a EULA in the longest time.

Re:Whatever, I have a cell phone

[anthony_dipierro]

Having a cell phone isn't going to stop them at all.

I don't need to stop them all, I just need to stop the ones who call me. And so far, for over two years now, it's worked.

Re:Whatever, I have a cell phone

[anthony_dipierro]

If you have done business with the company, it's not illegal

Unless you tell them to stop, at which point it is illegal. I've gotten two calls, one each from two of my credit card companies, and they lasted less than a minute each. Much better than when I had my "land line" and was getting two or three calls a day.

Re:Whatever, I have a cell phone

[Sycraft-fu]

Nah, because it's much easier to track down. Spammers hide behind anonymous relaies and stuff. can't do that on the phone network. Yes, you can block the person on the other end form seeing your number but the telephone equipment knows, and keeps logs.

It's like junk faxes. You do see them, but WAAAAY less than spam because peopel DO get nailed for it.

Re:Whatever, I have a cell phone

[Chagrin]

Actually you just take them to small claims court for $500 - $1500, since telemarketing to cell phone numbers is against the TCPA.

Re:Whatever, I have a cell phone

[MADCOWbeserk]

admittedly it is far more rare, but I do get telemarketers calling my cell phone. My guess is that most telemarketers aviod cell exchanges when programming auto dialers. My regular phone, which I pretty much only use for sending faxes, recieves about ten telemarketer calls a day. Despite asking all of them to take me off their lists, which I thought they are legally bound to do.

End of rant....

Re:Whatever, I have a cell phone

[MADCOWbeserk]

Actually I heard Kevin Mitnik, talking on Emmanuel Goldstein's show, Off The Hook, about how it is very easy to spoof caller ID and tracking by hacking a PBX. Download the october 16th show it is described. According to them they can make any number appear as the origin, and it is nearly impossible to track, since the pbx itself is responsible for logging the call.

"Could Jesus Microwave a burrito so hot, that he himself could not eat it."HS

Re:Whatever, I have a cell phone

[plutonic]

Kevin Mitnick actually did this when he was on the Art Bell radio show, he found Art's unlisted phone number and called him up making the call display show something completely different from what it should of been. Needless to say, Art was a little bit spooked :)

Re:Whatever, I have a cell phone

[MADCOWbeserk]

Neat, didn't hear htat show. Anyway just trying to make the point that any telemarketer that has it's own PBX can hide it's identity easily..

This reminds me of something.

[Prince_Ali]

This seems similar to weapons dealers who sell weapons to both sides. Unfortunately they are selling bigger weapons to the baddies.

just once...

[tolarianacademy]

a telemarketer tried to sell me one of those telezappers i'm pretty sure it was a prank

Re:just once...

[Loki_1929]

" a telemarketer tried to sell me one of those telezappers i'm pretty sure it was a prank"

Call go something like this?

Telemarketer: Hi Mr. Cantel!
You: My name is Cantrell.
TM: Did we catch you at a bad time?
You: Well, actua...
TM: Goooood.. If calls like this annoy the hell out of you, you need the Telezapper!
You: ...
TM: It gets rid of those annoying dinner-time calls from lowlife telemarketers like myself!
*hangup*

Georgia has the same type of system. It works, too

[sirinek]

http://www.ganocall.com and you can sign up online.

siri

Pass the Law!

[jelizondo]

I think the law should be sufficiently broad that no private or public enterprise may sell or otherwise benefit from distributing to third parties any information it has about you that makes you personally identifiable.

I don't have a problem with any enterprise selling compiled demographics.

So call (preferably during dinnertime) your representative!

Re:Pass the Law!

[sfe_software]

What do you think Equifax, Experian, and TransUnion make their money from?

Why should I care? I don't work for them (nor would I). But more importantly:

How on earth is a bank or other institution supposed to know if you're a good credit risk if they can't get personally identifiable information about you?

While I'm not the person you were replying to, I suspect he meant without permission. When you sign a credit application, you are giving them permission both to obtain a credit report, and to report information to the credit agencies.

I would absolutely love for there to be a law requiring explicit permission before distributing or utilizing any personally identifiable information. Want to share my information with your partners? Ask my permission first. I don't care if they are subsidiaries or whatever, those loopholes need to be closed IMO.

Likewise, it should *always* be opt-in. It should be illegal for a company to require that you permit them to distribute your personal information in order to provide service (unless this is a necessary part of the service). In other words, it would be illegal to refuse service because you choose to exercise your rights on this (rights that you would have under this law).

Regarding the article... don't criminals and law enforcement typically use guns made by the same manufacturers? Aren't radar detectors often made by the same companies that make radar speed detection devices? Police radios and scanners?

Playing both sides of an issue is not uncommon, but the fact that the phone companies are creating tons of business for themselves that would otherwise not exist (and only serve to piss off consumers) is terrible IMO. But they do it for one reason: they can.

Re:Pass the Law!

[Zathrus]

While I'm not the person you were replying to, I suspect he meant without permission

Ok, that I'll buy. But it's a very important distinction and completely changes the argument.

I'm all for that too. Opt-in should be default. I don't forsee it happening nationwide though because of the clout of the various businesses that would be affected. Sigh.

Re:Pass the Law!

[Zathrus]

I don't know if credit companies sell the lists to other companies. I think they do and that is improper too, in my view.

They can and do now. Thanks to a new federal law that explicitly allows them to unless you opt-out. You should've gotten a letter from every financial institution you do business with about this about a year and a half ago - the new law went into effect July 1, 2001. Most people probably just threw the opt-out forms in the trash. Oops. I filled out each and every one and sent it back in.

I think you should be able to prevent them

You can - when they call you ask to be put on their "Do not solicit" list.

Unfortunately it only helps a little... that DNS/DNC/DNM (solicit/call/mail - often separate lists, but solicit covers both call and mail) is for that telemarketer only. The institution that gave them your number will probably never hear about it, so unless you call them and somehow reach the right number to be put on their list it won't do too much good.

And, like you, I never buy from telemarketers or spammers. I did, however, get Citibank to stop telemarketing me. I signed up for a couple programs that had hefty fees - like $40-50 (the bank gets a $10 kickback on these, so it's very much in their interest to have these "benefit" programs). I then called back and cancelled them after they showed up on my bill. After the second time they discovered it cost wayyyyy too much to market to me and stopped.

What I really love is when phone companies call my wife to try and get her to change long distance companies. She works for one and we get free long distance because of it. It's a real hard sell at that point :)

Re:Pass the Law!

[Exedore]

Indeed, I have bought a house, and I had to go through stupid amounts of credit checks and verifications to do so. But you know what? It wasn't always that way. My grandparents bought a house, too, long before there were computerized databases of consumer data being bandied back and forth through the ether. I think you'll find that mortgages predate credit information clearinghouses by a good stretch.

Contrary to my somewhat flippant remark, I am not against all kinds of credit. If you default on your mortgage, the bank can always take your house. The concept of collateral allows the lending of money without perfect information about the borrower. What I object to is the ridiculous amount of consumer debt. This is primarily what I refer to when I say "spending money you don't have." If you default on your credit card payments, it's much harder for creditors to get any sort of recompense. What are they going to do? Force you to regurgitate all the nachos and beer you told Appu to charge to your credit card at the Stop-n-Shop?

But hey, there's still money to be made extending credit to as many folks as we can justify, and thus we have these monstrous database networks, credit reporting agencies and what have you so creditors can decide who gets pre-approved credit card offers in the mail and who does not (more likely, what the interest rate will be, since I know several people with horrible credit histories that still get these offers). Oh, and the privacy of your personal information be well and truly damned, by the way.

I'm not convinced that putting the brakes on all of this madness would harm the economy. I still buy plenty of stuff... clothes, electronics, food, you name it. But if there isn't enough money in the checking account, I save my money until there is. What a fucking concept.

cornflakes

[prisoner]

I know this is off-topic but I can't help it. I was reading one of these threads about telemarketers awhile ago and someone mentioned that whenever one called, he simply replied with "corflakes" I thought it was the funniest thing ever and I've been doing it ever since. I'm not as good as he is/was though. I've only gotten up to saying it 10 times....

Re:cornflakes

[The Visiting Priest]

In a similar vein, I have taken to simply putting the phone down (quietly) and let them blather on until they realise that noone is listening.

As they say in the article: marketers value THEIR time, but not yours. I like to return the favour of wasting their time without wasting MINE.

Re:cornflakes

[jweb]

Here's another good one that I pulled on an MCI telemarketer once.

Salesdroid: "Hello sir. I'm calling you this evening to tell you... blah blah blah.... switching long distance carriers...."

Me: "I'm sorry, I don't think I can do that. I don't have a phone"

Salesdroid (prepared response): "Well, sir, that's..... uuuuuhhhhh... you don't have a phone?"

Me: "Yes. Hey, get off the microwave, I'm trying to cook dinner! (Click)"

I can just imagine that poor bastard sitting in his cube, his poor automaton braing trying to process such invalid input.
To this day, it still makes me laugh (and yes, it's a true story).

Re:cornflakes

[saider]

When I'm in the mood, I'll keep the phone to my ear and continue what I am doing. When they ask if I am interested, I respond "I'm sorry I didn't get all that. I was ... "

"Cooking/Eating"
"Watching 'Law and Order'"
"Fixing my model airplane engine"
"Playing 'Comanche'"
"Changing my kid's diaper"

I've got a whole list of things I'd like to do while talking to telemarketers. I'd like to have sex during a sales call, but my wife won't go for that (yet).

State Opt Out

[jeramybsmith]

I live in Tennessee which lets you opt-out of phone solicitation. I have never had dinner interrupted since then. Talk to your state senator and try to get a similar law passed.

Re:State Opt Out

[rschwa]

I live in Tennessee which lets you opt-out of phone solicitation. I have never had dinner interrupted since then. Talk to your state senator and try to get a similar law passed.

But don't let them cop out with a milquetoast law like Minnesota's. Getting on the MN 'No Call List' keeps everyone from calling.
Unless, of course, they are:
A non-profit organization.
A business with a prior relationship (or 'affiliates' of such businesses).
Political Groups.
Businesses that will not complete the sale on the phone.

So that cuts out exactly who, now? The spam calls I get are exclusively within the abovementioned categories. It's not even worth my time to figure out how to get on 'The List'!

Re:State Opt Out

[Monkelectric]

You sir are a retard or a troll.

What encourages telemarketers is that *other* people are buying stuff, not me. I've never bought anything from a telemarketer but that dosen't stop me getting 3 or 4 calls a week from them. Your suggestion that I should have to change the social factors in my community (convince people not to buy stuff from telemarketers) is absurd.

All these anit-telemarketing laws do is take more freedoms away from the public.

Once again, you are an idiot. Nowhere are you guaranteed the right to bother people. And you aren't taking rights away "from the public" you are restricting ways in which business can carry out business, which is precisely the mandate of congress as set out by the constitution.

Re:State Opt Out

[KaiserSoze]

...dosen't[sic] stop me getting 3 or 4 calls a week from them

You sir, are LUCKY. A goddamned company in Queens, NY calls me 3 to 4 times PER DAY. How do I know? Because I see all of the missed calls when I get home from work. I get a regular call from them every evening between 8:30 and 9pm. Isn't that 11pm in NY?! I answered once and told them NO, leave me alone, but they keep calling. Is there any recourse for me, since they are in NY and I'm in the Bay Area?

Re:State Opt Out

[cheezedawg]

Your suggestion that I should have to change the social factors in my community (convince people not to buy stuff from telemarketers) is absurd

And I think the suggestion that the government should limit who we can and cannot call on the telephone is absurd.

Nowhere are you guaranteed the right to bother people

We are guaranteed the right to freedom of speech. Door to door soliciting has been ruled to be protected speech numerous times in the courts- what's the difference there? If I want to stand on a street corner and talk to everybody that passes by, that may bother people but I am guaranteed the right to do it. If we are legislating against annoyances, then why isn't there a law that says that you have to bathe regularly (because stinky people bother me).

I think the whole thing is blown out of proportion anyway. If you receive a telemarketing call, you have several options including:

Hang up the phone (total time wasted = 2 seconds)

Set the phone down and let them drone on until they realize they aren't talking to anybody (my personal choice- total time wasted = 2 seconds)

Tell them not to call you anymore (total time wasted = 20 seconds)

And you aren't taking rights away "from the public" you are restricting ways in which business can carry out business

This may come as big surprise to you, but businesses are owned and operated by members of the public.

Re:State Opt Out

[cheezedawg]

To play devil's advocate, then why don't we make it illegal for people to buy things from a telemarketer? If the only reason we still get telemarketing calls is because 10% of the people buy from them, then these 10% are just as much at fault for me getting a telemarketing call as the telemarketers themselves.

I think this would be just as dumb as passing laws telling me which phone numbers I am allowed to dial.

Re:State Opt Out

[Yakko]

We are guaranteed the right to freedom of speech, however,

• I have no obligation to answer my phone
• I have no obligation to answer my door

Executing this simple strategy has been highly effective in my dealings with unwanted solicitation. I don't look like an ass, and they get to guess whether or not I'm alive. :o)

Re:State Opt Out

[Monkelectric]

And I think the suggestion that the government should limit who we can and cannot call on the telephone is absurd.

Im not saying *YOU* cant call anyone you dont want to -- I'm saying a business can't.

Whaaaa?

[Hayzeus]

Verizon spokeswoman Catherine Lewis says the company isn't playing telemarketers and consumers against each other.

"I don't think it's a case of we should pick one side over the other," she said. "We do serve both sides."

So... she's actually saying that Verizon does play telemarketers and consumers agianst each other, but not in a bad way? Huh? I think a little downsizing is way past due in Verizon's PR dept...

Best slashdot typo *ever*

[Xerithane]

Straight form the story: ... most Slasdot readers ...

*chuckle*

Re:Georgia has the same type of system. It works,

[PhysicsScholar]

I think I'd rather chat with a telemarketter for 10 minutes than wait for that site to load...

Suits against the laws exist

[nurb432]

According to the suits, the laws that prevent the telemarketers are violating their 1st amendment right to free speech as well as unfairly restricting business.

Personally I'm glad to see the calls gone, but i do see their point too..

I expect in the end the laws will be struck down. after a long and expensive ( tax payer funded ) battle. Only one getting something out of it will be the attorneys.

Of course we all know lawyers play the same game, start up suits and make money off both sides.

Re:Suits against the laws exist

[Dimensio]

The first amendment does not imply a right to be heard. The DMA has often argued that the first amendment means that they can do whatever they want to pitch an advertisement even to people who don't want it. That's like arguing that I have the legal right to break into your home so that I can argue a political point.

The DMA is run by crooks and thieves. They're just rich enough to bribe the right Congresscritters.

Re:Suits against the laws exist

[nolife]

the laws that prevent the telemarketers are violating their 1st amendment right to free speech

They are using and interupting MY time. Freedom of speech does not mean I have to listen, it does not mean you are entitled to every available means to speak your mind. Specially when I am greatly bothered in the process. Just because I have a US Postal mailbox at the end of my driveway does NOT give the right for just anyone to put stuff in it in the name of speech. You can not pick up a two-way radio and start broadcasting a sale on toner refill kits. A marketer is more then welcome to stand at the end of my driveway or walk up and down the road and speak all they want. The freedom of speech for them is still protected, they are concerned about freedom of conducting business in the cheapest manner possible, that is not protected (unless you are a really big campaign donner).

Cell phones are better...

[CySurflex]

I usually don't give out my home phone# to anyone, and the only people who call it are telemarketers - that's why I started leaving the ringer off. My cell phone is the # I give to everyone, and I haven't received a single telemarketing call on it.

Wisconsin's

[Ark42]

http://nocall.wisconsin.gov/

Not Effective until Jan 1

Mobile phones are not immune

[ites]

(Although this is a bit off-topic). In Japan there is a telemarketing craze: call someone once on their mobile, then wait for them to call back. The client pays for the (overpriced) call. So phone manufacturers provide an option to disable the first ring. :-) Now the beepers ring twice and then hang-up.

Re:Mobile phones are not immune

[Sycraft-fu]

Easy solution, if I get a call from a number I don't know, I don't usually call it back. Not because of cost, just because if they can't be bothered to leave me voice mail, it must not be that important.

Re:Mobile phones are not immune

[kootch]

I think this is what you're talking about...

My apt phone has caller id blocked, and is set to be unlisted. If I call some people's phones using this line, I can't get through, and get a message saying "private calls not accepted by this number"

Now, while this is good in some ways because the phone isn't bothering to answer if the person is trying to conceal their number, at the same time, this was done without the other person's prompting and there doesn't seem to be a way for them to change the situation.

Trace busta busta busta!

[Mustang Matt]

Sounds like the devices from the movie the big hit!

How about those "tele-zapper" things?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does anyone know if they work?

It just sends the first tone of the "disconnected number" FCC 3-tone code whenever you pick up a phone call. I've seen people claim you can put the tones on your answering machine before your message and it should block incoming telemarketers without the $50 cost of the telezapper (as long as you let the answering machine pick up).

Re:How about those "tele-zapper" things?

[Cervantes]

I used to manage a market research call centre (before i got smart and went back to my geek roots), and we used the same type of predictive dialer that telemarketers use. Funny thing about the telezappers, et al, they only emit a short tone... very short.

SET pickupdelay +2

Problem solved. We used to laugh at the people who wasted their money on those things, and then sputtered and fumed at us that we shouldn't be able to get through. Truth is, those things may work for 30-40% of your telemarketing calls, but thats it. Other things, like the delay it can take for the phone lines to connect, also shorten the tone to the point where it stops before the dialer believes you're out of service. But adding a delay before it picks up if by far the most common ploy.

The other thing people don't realize is that direct callers don't have one big list of numbers that they constantly whittle down. Most do as we did, randomly generating phone numbers, then filtering out the numbers on the no-call list and in cell-phone domains. If your phone gets marked as out-of-order, it will still go back on a list with that same company within a week... they expect your number to be used by someone else quite quickly. And no, just because the company that does sell number lists thinks you're out of order, doesn't mean that they'll never try again. Think of the math... how many people have only had their phone number for a few years? How many people get new phones everyday?

And, before I left, I heard a wonderful tidbit... the list-sellers may soon set up auto-dial systems that do nothing but call the numbers marked as disconnected. If they ever get anything but that tone (say, because you're on the phone), you go back on the active list, with a little mark next to it that will bias the ranking of your number so that it won't be marked out-of-service for a very long time. It costs them nothing to keep trying your number.

And yes, for the record, even though I was doing good things (making all those pretty commercials you see on TV and all those shiny ads in the magazines), I still feel dirty sometimes =)

Re:How about those "tele-zapper" things?

[bnenning]

even though I was doing good things

No, you were not. You were deliberately annoying people who had gone out of their way to indicate that they did not want you intruding on their lives. That is not a good thing.

Re:How about those "tele-zapper" things?

[bnenning]

Where in the flaming levels of hell did you get that brilliant nugget?

That would be from your own post, specifically "Problem solved". It certainly created the impression that the delay was done in order to solve the "problem" of not getting through to people with telezappers. So strike the word "deliberately" from my original post; the rest stands.

if you wanted to indicate that you didn't want intrusion into your life, then maybe you should have let intelligence intrude into your head and signed up on all the various no-call lists (cost: free) instead of wasting your good money on something that doesn't work

I really don't understand your contempt for the people whose lives you were interrupting. Perhaps they didn't know about the no-call lists, didn't trust telemarketers to honor them, or didn't want to spend the time to figure out how to get on them. Time is not free, although I wouldn't expect telemarketers or those who use their tactics to understand that.

easy solution

[yellowcat]

There's a simple solution to not being disturbed by telemarketers at 8am saturday...don't have a phone in your bedroom. I don't think outlawing telemarketing is the answer to the issue, but definitely coming down hard on a company that is playing both sides of the game would be useful. Especially if they could use existing law to do so.

This already exists

[AAAWalrus]

In Indiana, this already exists. Basically, our law states that if you've registered to be blocked from telemarketing, no one can telemarket to your phone unless they are a registered local fundraiser (i.e. Volunteer Fire Dept, etc) or a company you already do business with. In other words, Citibank could call be to offer me the latest services for my credit card. Kinda bites, because Citi is one of the worst for me when it comes to telemarketing. But I don't get any more offers to change my long distance service, thank goodness.

-AAAWalrus

Dr. Seuss would have fun with this.

[MagikSlinger]

It sounds like The Sneetches by Dr. Seuss with the Telcos playing the "Fix-it-up Chappie". This could be really amusing.

Re:Dr. Seuss would have fun with this.

[nobodyman]

I'm glad somebody else caught on to this. It immediately came to mind.

the problem really does go away

[Schlemphfer]

From the article summary:

So either both sides pay the local Baby Bell for its protection racket, or you just pass a law and the problem goes away.

I went to nynocall.com about nine months ago, and ever since I think I've gotten one, count 'em, one telemarketing call. And after I got it, I went back to the friendly nynocall.com site, and filled out a report so they could nail the bastards.

It's amazing what a great piece of legislation, plus a little enforcement, can do to solve the problem. Wish other states would follow New York's lead.

Informative Link

[PhysicsScholar]

No Call links to your state's page.

FTC is covering this with the No-Call initiative

[swordboy]

A HREF="http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/alerts/d ncalrt.htm">Do Not Call Registry Initiative

Only a matter of time before Big Business buys this one out.

Autoresponse

[Hayzeus]

What would be nifty would be the ability to transfer telemarketing calls to a little black box that, upon detecting a pause on on the part of the speaker, says a short, encouraging phrase, like "Tell me more!", "Sounds interesting?", "How do I sign up?", "Do you take credit cards?", "Hold on a sec.", etc. The idea would be to keep the caller on the line for as long as possible. Also useful for in-laws, bill collectors, etc. I shall draw up a patent application forthwith.

Re:Autoresponse

[ip_vjl]

Route some speech-to-text software into Eliza and have the answers come back via text-to-speech and you could keep them chatting for hours.

I'm calling to offer you fantastic rates on long distance.
What makes you think I need fantastic rates on long distance?

You may be paying 10 to 15 percent too much on your bill.
Why do you think it is that I may be paying 10 to 15 percent too much on my bill?

... and on and on.

Re:Autoresponse

[siskbc]

As pointed out, it should be possible to do this with a modem that interfaces with a sound card. So all you need is a program that captures the incoming stream and detects a pause of say, 1 sec, then plays a semi-random .wav file that the user recorded.

Does anyone KNOW of any such anti-spam software?

$500 Billion???

[swm]

From the article

Sales revenue has risen from about $435 billion in 1990 to around $660 billion last year.

Can anyone comfirm this? $500B is about 5% of GDP.

Do you spend 5% of your gross income on stuff that telemarketers sell you?

Re:$500 Billion???

[Roadmaster]

No, but how about 5% of the people spend 100% of their income on telemarketing goodies? you know some of those pitches can be really convincing... *LOL*

Star Bellied Sneeches

[Bob(TM)]

Once again, we find that all we ever really need to know about life (and business), we learned from Dr. Seuss ...

What Transpired

[EEgopher]

It is too bad their attack is so bilateral. With unilateral mailings for credit cards, I simply scribble all over the application such messages as:

"Find respectable work."

or

"Stop exploiting poor people."

And the company gets to pay the return envelope postage. With telemarketers, however, we are forced into the uncomfortable twinge of countering our ingrained impulse to be polite on the phone. What my roomate used to do is this: when they start talking, take the phone from your ear, put it to your mouth, and just SCREAM!!!!
Then laugh as you imagine the dork at his cubicle, ripping his headset off and holding his ear in pain.

Boost Advil sales.
Medicate all your pets.

Re:What Transpired

[fobbman]

Why waste your voice when a small portable airhorn is so inexpensive?

Re:What Transpired

[greenhide]

While telemarketers technically get the brunt of our rage, it's the telemarketing company that's at fault.

I know someone who worked as a telemarketer. She was a nice person. She said that you don't even know who you are calling -- a machine does it for the telemarketer. That's why they frequently stumble pronouncing your name -- they don't see it until the moment you pick up the phone.

Telemarketing is a thankless job, but it pays well, and for someone who doesn't have a degree -- heck, with the economy the way it is now, even people *with* degrees -- it's a job that pays well without requiring physical exertion or long hours.

Have you heard what most telemarketers sound like? They aren't thrilled about their product. They're not excited to tell you about it. They're just running through a script they've been given. Most telemarketers I hear sound tired, they sound stressed, they sound worn out.

If you simply tell them "Put this number on your do not call list" then they are obligated by law to do so and cannot call you for a year. On the other hand, screaming or attacking the person who calls you isn't constructive. It just increases the stress of that person, and, probably, yours.

Re:What Transpired

[goon america]

Screaming several times a day for telemarketing calls could strain your vocal cords.

Instead, I recommend hooking up a small, 5 watt amplifier up to your phone line. Be sure to use a switch that will disconnect your own phone speaker when you turn it on.

Re:What Transpired

[GreyPoopon]

If you simply tell them "Put this number on your do not call list" then they are obligated by law to do so

This is the approach I use until one of them tries to either convince me that they can't, or that it will take 3 months for the entry to take effect. That's when I go off the deep end and start yelling.

Re:What Transpired

[AntiNorm]

What my roomate used to do is this: when they start talking, take the phone from your ear, put it to your mouth, and just SCREAM!!!!

Screaming won't be loud enough to induce the pain of which you speak. Smoke detectors, however, will. That's what I use.

Re:What Transpired

[Dalcius]

While I respect your view and will admit that screaming at them is not the nicest thing to do, getting paid to waste my time isn't something I'm going to be nice to you about.

It's like in the Army. If you do something, you are morally responsible for it, regardless of who gave the order. Shooting Jews because you're "following orders" is still wrong.

Your friend is among those that choose to waste my time, thus I hold them accountable.

I should add that I've never done more than become stern and just hang up with telemarketers, so keep the flames down.

Re:What Transpired

[HiThere]

And your reference is?

I've heard it both ways from somewhat plausible sourced. Don't know which I believe. Suspect, however, that it's first class paying for 4th, despite what the ad people say. (I don't count them as an even vaguely credible witness, even though they are the most common source of the info.)

Re:What Transpired

[Tassach]

Sand would work even better. That will put a serious hurtin' on the automatic envelope-opener and OCR equipment.

Re:What Transpired

[jafac]

no - first you mumble something incoherent, very quietly. They'll ask "what" then you do it again - they'll turn up the volume on their headset, then you scream.

Re:What Transpired

[kreyg]

Why waste your voice when a small portable airhorn is so inexpensive?

While I don't have any sympathy for telemarketing, I do have some for telemarketers, who are usually extremely poorly paid and can't find any other job... might not want to be too hard on someone who probably hates their job anyway.

Re:What Transpired

[yog]

There are lots of guerilla tactics to hurt telemarketers where it counts. Time is money to them, as the CNN article rightly points out. So waste their time as much as possible; every minute probably stops them from bothering maybe 10 more people.

Express great interest in their product and make them explain all the options in detail. Pretending you are hard of hearing or your phone's out of whack helps in this regard.

Bring them to the point of taking your credit card number, then go looking for the card. About every 30 seconds, tell them you are still looking--was it in my purse? No, on my desk? No, darn it where did I put it? Maybe I can find an old statement and just read you the number? The telemarketer is by this time salivating for the sale and will put up with this for quite a long time.

Pretend you have just ordered a competing product with superior features, and force them to defend their product. They surely have a script for this, but if you keep making up more features you will eventually wear them out and make them put their supervisor on the line. Whenever this happens, you should insist on talking to the original telemarketer, since supervisors have more power to terminate a conversation.

There are all the usual tactics that have been covered on /. and other forums ad nauseum (see Jim Florentine's website, Tom Mabe's website, and AntiTelemarketer.com. You can act mentally retarted, or cough uncontrollably, or chew loudly during a dinner hour call, or mix intelligent statements with meaningless babble to throw them off the script.

Have fun!

Re:What Transpired

[yog]

Yeah, I agree with you. The telemarketing companies are scum, but the drones who work at the call centers are "just doing their job", annoying though it may be.

That's why it's better to simply waste their time than to scream and abuse them; the telemarketer gets paid by the hour as well as by commission, so you're not hurting them too much, and you're wasting their employer's time and money.

Having said that, my time is precious to me and I always just politely request to be added to the no-call list; they say OK and have a nice day, I say you too, and we're done within 20 seconds or so.

Re:What Transpired

[susano_otter]

Sure, but if telemarketers were universally despised, maybe they'd find some other low-paying job where they didn't get shat on quite so much. Being nice to them is tantamount to saying it's okay for them and their employer to violate my privacy and principles in order to make a living.

Re:What Transpired

[susano_otter]

So? Everybody needs a job. That doesn't mean every job needs doing. And needing a job doesn't make it okay for you to get paid to piss me off.

Re:What Transpired

[tuxedo-steve]

This is very true. Receiving a telemarketing call might not be the nicest thing in the world, but there's never a good reason to act in a rude and uncivilised way in response, no matter how much you dislike the practice.

That's the problem with your typical /.er: he's like one of the enlightened princes of Atlantis until a topic comes up about which it's fashionable to be ignorant. Then he becomes a self-rightous twat who likes to mouth off about how loud he screams at people who offend him. Yeesh.

Another data point...Kentucky....

[igjeff]

FWIW, plenty of other people are pointing out other states that have this type of law (I think I saw, Indiana, and Georgia, at least, mentioned).

Kentucky does as well. http://www.kycall0.com

I heard a stat a month or so ago (aigh...wish I could remember the attribution for it), that fully 1/3 of the state's households had signed up for the nocall list (Kentucky does it on a per-household, actually, per-phone number, basis). This was right *after* the nocall list took effect in Kentucky. I can only assume that the number of households/phone lines has increased since then.

When they call...

[CySurflex]

When I get a call from a telemarketers I try to slashdot them at home by putting them on speakerphone and having my whole family (and the bird) yell at them at once.

Corporations = ruthless

[SexyKellyOsbourne]

Is this any surprise? Transnational corporations are some of the most heirarchal, authoritatian, and ruthless organizations to ever exist on the face of the Earth.

To them, there is one bottom line: profit. Nothing else matters, and if people suffer from it, whether by telemarketing or in a child labor camp in Bangladesh, it does not factor into a corporation's equation.

Those laws will never get passed, as Congress is thoroughly in the pocketbook of such business, and many of the Congressmen make their money simply by whoring themselves out to corporations.

Nothing is ever done about the complaints for the do not call lists, and it seems that, due to technology, we're just going to have to put up with spam over all lines, both CAT5 and CAT3, until there's a serious change of government here in the US.

Nice idea waiting to be struck down

[BadDoggie]

I used to live in NY and I like this law, but parts of it will definitely change.

Telemarketers who violate the law are subject to a fine of up to $5,000 per call.

BUT...

In order to comply with the law and maintain accurate internal call lists... The Registry ... is available for a fee of $800.00 per telemarketer per calendar year

This won't stand up; "Restraint of Trade" comes to mind. Either the list must be made free to telemarketers because it is a law with selective application (no calls only to those on the list) which they must follow, or the fines will be dropped on appeal. You cannot force a company to pay for information it needs to keep itself legal every quarter. Think of the ramifications: if this is acceptable, then why not another law which requires companies to downlaod a list of people on welfare which every company must download for $500/month so that they can report if someone on Welfare is actually working for them? You must take the idea to the extreme when considering it because, come hell or high water, sooner or later some case will test an extreme beyond whatever popped into your noggin before.

I'm not against charging the telemarketers. I'm against badly written laws which give the telemarketers a way to weasel out in court and which have chilling potential future effects.

woof.

Truth is stranger than fiction because fiction has to make sense.

Re:Nice idea waiting to be struck down

[khendron]

Tell that to all the doctors, lawyers, engineers, and accountants that must pay for licensing fees every year in order to continue their practice.

Re:Nice idea waiting to be struck down

[pauljlucas]

Either the list must be made free to telemarketers because it is a law with selective application (no calls only to those on the list) which they must follow

The telemartketer is free to maintain their own list of people who have opted-in to be called. (How they get such a list is their problem. They could snail-mail a permission form to people, for example.)

You cannot force a company to pay for information it needs to keep itself legal every quarter.

Why not? The government forces companies to pay all the time to maintain licenses and permits to keep themselves legal. They also force me to pay for my driver's licence and auto insurance.

Re:Nice idea waiting to be struck down

[FreeUser]

This won't stand up; "Restraint of Trade" comes to mind. Either the list must be made free to telemarketers because it is a law with selective application (no calls only to those on the list) which they must follow, or the fines will be dropped on appeal. You cannot force a company to pay for information it needs to keep itself legal every quarter.

Sure you can.

An even worse example are building codes...laws that define how you may and may not build your house, to what standards, etc. In many locales private companies actually own the copyright on the law! They typically will sell you a copy for a few hundred dollars, and it is not legal to distribute a copy of the law to anyone else as a public service, as doing so would violate copyright.

Yet building codes persist, and are rarely if ever struck down.

Yes, it should be illegal and unconstitutional to copyright public law, or to charge people for the information they need to comply with a law and its mandates. In a rational, sane society it would be.

But not in ours, unfortunately.

Of course, a rational or sane society would not have a system of monopoly by government fiat in place (e.g. Patents) that demonstrably slows scientific progress, or one that demonstrably inhibits artistic expression (copyrights), but that is a discussion for another day.

Re:Nice idea waiting to be struck down

[Zathrus]

In addition to the other excellent replies giving examples (various licensing), there are other entire industries that have to do the same.

You're an electrician? Ok. Well, you better have a copy of each revision of the NEC for the past 20 years. Because different municipalities follow different codes. I don't know of any that are further back than 1996, but I'm sure there are some. And while, in theory, holding to the 2002 NEC will keep you backwards compliant I'm sure there are subtle exceptions to that.

Want to buy the NEC? Sure... the full code book is available for about $100 from the organization. There are mini-books available from other sources for about $50. And if you don't have it you'll eventually violate it and get caught, which is going to be really expensive.

All the government has to do is prove that the cost to assemble the database is in the $800/year range. Which really isn't hard to do. That cost has to be passed on to someone, and it makes sense to pass it on to the companies that want to engage in that market. You don't have to buy it. But a single violation will change the economics of that real fast.

Re:Nice idea waiting to be struck down

[FreeUser]

I believe that you may be mistaken.

Citation of Veeck v Southern Building Code removed.

I cannot tell you how delighted I am to see some semblance of sanity making it into our judicial system. Would that this had happened 70 or 80 years ago, when the practice of submitting legislation to which one owns the copyright to city councils for passage first reared its ugly head.

Re:The Quick Hangup

[papasasha]

A friend of mine used to work as a telemarketer. He tells me that these companies treat a hangup, even after you yell at the poor slob on the other end, as an "accidental disconnect", and put you back on the call queue.

Have to tell them to put you on the "do not call" list.

Wisconsin has a no-call law too, effective January 1 2003.

Sprint Privacy ID

[Spazholio]

Sprint has this feature for $4.95 a month that disallows all non-Caller ID readable calls (blocked, private, anonymous, etc.) But there is a passcode that you can give out to "trusted" friends and family that allows them to bypass the restriction. But those 4 digits are defaulted to the last 4 of your phone number, so it's quite easy for telemarketers to guess (and they do).

Now, most of us here are probably careful with our information, and giving it out, but I'd say the other 99% of the population aren't. Now, I'm not saying that the telcos aren't using these underhanded tactics, but don't leave user stupidity out of the equation.

Wisconsin will start jan 1st

[The-Pheon]

https://nocall.wisconsin.gov/ will go into effect this new year. Hurry up to sign up tho, you must register before Dec. 1st. Otherwise you must wait until the next list is created in april!

cheers!

Re:Georgia has the same type of system. It works,

[slutdot]

Here's a list for all states that have a web site.

Apparently, the anti-telemarketer website doesn't seem to have a problem with pop-ups though...

Counterscript

[SquadBoy]

The counterscript is fun and easy.

My standard reply

[Alien Being]

Put my fucking phone number on your fucking no-fucking-call list you fucking asshole.

Thank you very much.

Re:My standard reply

[kenp2002]

Fuck dude you got a fucking God damn fucking problem with your fucking mouth fucker. Fuck the fucking fucker for fuck's sake. What is with the fucking Fuck-ass fuck mouth you fucking fucker. Fuck you.

The law doesn't help

[Xesdeeni]

First, shouldn't the telcos be paying for me to be on the list, since they profit from selling my phone # in the first place?

But second, now I'm getting calls from "licensees" of the state. So now the states are playing the same game as the the telcos.

Xesdeeni

The Chicken Method

[thatguywhoiam]

I know an even better one. Slightly OT but it was damn funny to me:

This guy I once knew got so many telemarketing calls (on his cell, no less) that he took to answering the phone like a chicken. He'd just pick up the line and start immediately with the clucking noises. His friends all knew he did it, so they'd just say "Rob" and immediately he'd be like "buk buk buk.. Oh hey what's up." If the other person started laughing, or acting puzzled, he'd just step up the chicken noises. Funny and effective.

Re:The Chicken Method

[MightyTribble]

A former housemate of mine used to answer telemarking calls like this:

"I'm sorry, I don't have a telephone."

The conversation usually went downhill from there. Except once, when the caller said "Oh. Sorry to have bothered you, then." and hung up.

$foo plays both sides of the $bar war

[istartedi]

Arms dealers play both sides of the global war.

Lawyers play both sides of the legal war.

Congressmen play both sides of the political war.

That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure the rest of you can think of more.

Re:$foo plays both sides of the $bar war

[anthony_dipierro]

Slashdotters play both sides of the increased government regulation war.

Pass a law?

[GMontag]

Pass a law as a solution? Well, it helps but it does not solve the problem. The tel-mktrs will call from other areas, etc, etc, etc. Approaches like this share a lot with approaches at "outlawing" porn of any form. As long as there is a market, someone will be filling the market.

However, Plenty of technical means are available to thwart this annoying form of marketing, like playing sit.wav (the way telezapper works) over the line on incoming calls, not answering anonymous callers, etc.

Right now, I am in a unique situation since I switched landline service from Verizon to Comcast. Comcast does not have a record of my being their customer (no fault of my own, I filled out a mountain of paperwork, signed, faxed, etc.) so my VM on them does not work. Neither does their billing system for my number ;-) Does not kill the sequential dialers, but it does get rid of others.

Will have a dedicated computer answering machine on that line soon, with sit.wav followed by random selections of "Deposit change now", "You do not need to dial 1", etc. before the beep to leave a message.

Others might try the simple message: "Hello... Hello?... HELLO?... I can't hear you, what was that?... Hello?... Hey, I'm not in, leave a message!" as done by Tom Hanks in the movie "Nothing in Common". It wastes the telemarketer's time and gives everybody else a chuckle.

Otherwise, everybody that needs to contact me has my GSM number, it has VM and all is well with my communications world!

How I beat the telemarketers

[phillymjs]

Just Don't Pick Up the Phone
If I don't recognize the CallerID info, I don't take the call. Period. If it's an important call, a message will be left by the caller, or they'll try my wireless phone if they are important enough to me for me to have given them the number.

Get on a Do Not Call List
If your state has legislated a Do Not Call list, get your name on it. It may not help, but it surely can't hurt.

Turn Off That Ringer
I only have one ringer on per floor in my house. The basement phone's ringer is set to low volume. The one on the phone in my bedroom gets shut off entirely when I don't want to be disturbed. I got one of those Fone Flasher things from Radio Shack for my bedroom. It's positioned so whether I'm watching TV or working at the computer, I will see it out of the corner of my eye.

Roll Your Own Technology-Based Solution
Since I already had a computer running the house lights and stuff like that, I just bought a modem that supports Caller ID and got a hold of MacCallerID. Now I can leave the ringers off all the time, and the computer lets me know when someone I want to talk to is calling. I have a whitelist of callers, and when someone on that list calls and the house is not in 'sleep' or 'away' mode, the computer verbally announces their name through wireless speakers scattered throughout the house. During the day I can also hit my server from any machine with web access, and see a list of the last 10 people who have called my house.

The bottom line is, no self respecting Slashdot reader should have to pay the phone company to rid themselves of the annoyance of telemarketers.

~Philly

Re:How I beat the telemarketers

[big_groo]

"I just bought a modem that supports Caller ID.."

Great...

"The bottom line is, no self respecting Slashdot reader should have to pay the phone company to rid themselves of the annoyance of telemarketers."

But...don't you have to pay the phone company for the CallerID feature on your line? I know you do in Canada ($5.00 / month).

And isn't that the point of the article?

Re:How I beat the telemarketers

[phillymjs]

A one-time charge of $20 for the modem (bought used on eBay) and $10 for MacCallerID, surely beats whatever Verzion would want me to pay monthly for 'telemarketer protection.'

And I've had CallerID since it first became available, just because I like to know who's on the other end before I pick up the phone. My anti-telemarketer application is making better use of a service I already had.

~Philly

Re:How I beat the telemarketers

[Farmer Jimbo]

I use solution 1, don't pick up the phone. I don't have caller ID. If it's important, they'll leave a message. If it's not importat enough to leave a message, then they don't talk to me.

If I happen to be expecting a call and get a telemarketer, then I ask to be placed on their DNC list before they can get to the second word of their shpeil.

This is really not that complicated folks. If you're too polite to interupt them then you shouldn't be allowed to answer the phone in the first place.

Automated Dialers

[futuresheep]

A computerized calling machine called the predictive dialer is responsible for the boom.

The machines dial numbers stored in a database using a mathematical algorithm to predict when a telemarketer will be ready to finish one sales call and start another. When the machine reaches a person, the call is supposed to be transferred to a telemarketer who is just finishing a previous call.

Automated dialers are illegal in many states, Washington State being one of them. A good story about this:

Link

Calls made using an automated dialing-and-announcing device for a commercial purpose -- to sell property, goods or services -- are against the law in Washington. Consumers are entitled to $500 in damages for each call.

Check your states website for information.

Another good source for your rights against telemarketers:

PrivateCitizen.org

Re:Automated Dialers

[futuresheep]

I realized that I quoted the wrong portion of the article right after I hit the submit button. This is the part I meant to get.

Calls made using an automated dialing-and-announcing device for a commercial purpose -- to sell property, goods or services -- are against the law in Washington. Consumers are entitled to $500 in damages for each call.

Damn slashdotters notice everything...;-)

Do what I do...

[Pedrito]

don't get a regular phone. I just have a cell phone. I need a cell phone, I get decent coverage in my apartment, so why would I need a regular phone? So, I didn't get one. Best thing I could ever do. Haven't gotten a single telemarketing call in two years. I highly recommend this path if you don't need a regular phone. Saves money and it's easy to turn it off :-)

The URL for Connecticut "No Call"

[jimm]

Connecticut's "No Call List" is accessible at http://www.state.ct.us/dcp/nocall.htm.

Re:Can't expect...

[rgmoore]

Wrong. Because the cell phone owner pays for incoming calls, it's illegal to make an unsolicited call to a cell phone. The telemarketers know this and don't call cell phones. Of course as cell phone rates go down I expect for there to be heavy lobying against this rule, but as it stands right now there are legal obstacles to telemarketing to cell phones.

Another Option

[cyberise]

Like a buddy of mine...another thing you can do to fix this problem and keep them out of your hair is to answer the phone saying: "Central Intelligence Agency, how may I help you?"

I love cell phones...

[Anonvmous Coward]

I have a cell phone, I think it's because of that I don't get telemarketing calls. I bet they'll change that one day, though. Fine with me. If I get a call that the caller ID doesn't show up on, it goes to voicemail. If the floodgates open and telemarketers start pestering me, what's gonna happen is I'm going to change my voicemail to say "unsolicited calls unwelcome". That should deter them. Of course, reality may be a different story.

Hrmm. I wish there was a service that was kind of like voicemail, except it only plays back a message. "Hi, thanks for calling. I don't want to speak with you. If what you have to say is urgent, email me at this address..."

That'd be worth a few bucks a month to me. Nice thing is: no ringing phones, no voicemail to check.

Any Bets?

[Loki_1929]

Any bets on whether Verizon's CEO could list all the Rules of Aquisition off the top of his head?

Biggest, Most Effective Telemarketer

[Shamanin]

AT&T

I do not have long distance service through them, my number is unlisted and blocked, yet they effectively contact me at least once a month (since they control the local phone service in my area).

When asked to be taken off their list, they claim it will take a month to go through yet I continually get called. They say they will send me writen notice about my request but I never receive it.

Anyone else harassed by this 800 pound gorilla?

Re:Recording your calls

[Pahroza]

That is not required in every state, nor in every country.

No optout will work completely

[martintt]

I worked for a Market Research Company, the system we used in the office was to divide up a phone book for an area and flick through it until we had someone from the postcode we were targeting.

That person was then called (and crossed off in the book).... and then we added 1 to the number and called that and repeat until we'd tried 10 people or called someone who complained we'd already called them.

This way we got people in the area we wanted and we didn't pay for any phone numbers - the phone book was probably free.

Occasionally we called the same person twice - but they would be very unlikely to be called more than twice.

Being X-directory or whatever would have had no effect whatsoever, and we did get a few people complain about this - surprise surprise.

P.S.
In my defence we were NOT selling anything, we were asking questions about what people thought of their water board and what they thought its environmental priorities should be.
I quit after a couple of days anyway (not what I'd signed up for). I'd signed up to call up companies and I see little wrong with calling bored secretaries and asking about what printers their firm uses (they are paid to answer the phone and are quite capable of saying they're busy).

Next time you're cold-called have *some* sympathy for the caller though as it is one of the most soul destroying jobs out there, having the phone slammed down and taking abuse 20 times an hour.

--
If you laid all the cold callers in the world around the equator end to end .... 2/3 of them would drown .... and they'd probably be glad.

Re:No optout will work completely

[jamesoutlaw]

I have mixed feelings for phone solicitors. Sure, it's an awful job to have and, I suppose, that for some people there are no alternatives. But, geez.... you would think that any rational person would know how much the general public _hates_ telemarketing. That alone would make me work double shifts at Burger King as an alternative.

Re:No optout will work completely

[Steve B]

Next time you're cold-called have *some* sympathy for the caller though as it is one of the most soul destroying jobs out there

Fortunately, the telemarketing industry has solved that problem by hiring people with no souls to destroy.

Re:No optout will work completely

[Dragoness Eclectic]

Next time you're cold-called have *some* sympathy for the caller though as it is one of the most soul destroying jobs out there, having the phone slammed down and taking abuse 20 times an hour.

You know, if everybody hates you because of the job you do, maybe you should change jobs?

Sorry, I have no sympathy for the job stresses of people who make a living by phone harassment (or for those of IRS employees).

Re:No optout will work completely

[Dexx]

In the case of one of my friends, double shifts at Burger King would prevent his seeing his young son and taking classes at university part time which he does to get out of his hellish job.

Re:No optout will work completely

[jamesoutlaw]

Well, bud.. that's too bad for your friend... but it's still not enough for me to be polite to him or to have respect for him if he calls me in the middle of the evening and tries to sell me a magazine subscription or tries to convince me to switch to MCI long distance.

I have a basic respect for all people... as long as they show me the same respect. Telemarketers and telemarketing companies intrude on people's privacy and basically annoy people for no good reason. I consider that to be very disrespectful and I will not tolerate it.

Hopefully your friend will finish school soon and move into a more respectable career where he will not be intruding on other people's privacy or disrespecting them and still be able to spend time with his young son.

Get Vonage

[Newer Guy]

I've had Vonage VOIP service as my second line for almost a year and have never received a single telemarketing call on it. In fact, I hardly ever use the main phone line now...If I didn't need it for E-911 and ADSL, I'd probably take it out all together. www.vonage.com

State Do Not Call Lists

[tiltowait]

Why oh why did you link to the New York one? Don't you know there are more?

There's also an effort to make a national one.

And don't forget the DMA lists.

Re:Georgia has the same type of system. It works,

[swv3752]

Thanks for the list, though Florida still sucks in that you have to pay to be put on the list.

EULA - On your phone number

[Chill E. V.]

Has anyone tried.... An automated attendant something like this: "By dialing this number your are agreeing to the terms and conidtions of this phone line. Please press one to hear the full terms and conitions. If you agree to these terms, please press two now. If you do not agree to my terms please hang up now." If the caller presses two the phone rings. If they press one they hear an hour long message full of legal mumbo jumbo that forbids unsolicited calls. Would that work? If I implemented something like this would I have recourse to sue telemarketers that press two???Just an idea.

Other methods

[Anonymous Coward]

Any junk mail that contains a "Business Reply Envelope" is a candidate for "reverse marketing". You simply rip out or obfuscate any references to your name, take all the promotional material and stuff it into the reply envelope for an all-expenses-paid trip back to the sender. I also heard about someone who kept a supply of junk mail on hand, to stuff into envelopes with their monthly payments, especially those who send junk mail with the monthly bill. The junk mail senders create a disposal problem; let them deal with it.

As for the telemarketers, I think the "loud noise tactics" are just stooping to the level of the bad guys. Instead, you make the standard "Put me on your do-not-call list, permanently" statement AND THEN RING A BELL, WHICH YOU WOULD POSITION NEAR THE PHONE FOR EXACTLY THIS PURPOSE. The telemarketers have little bells that they are supposed to ring when they close a sale. This is somehow supposed to produce positive feedback that lifts the spirits of nearby telemarketers in adjacent cubicles, in a desperate attempt to fight off all the rejection. Anything you can do to discourage or demoralize them should be accompanied by the "ding" sound of a bell, just to let them know who is in charge.

Re:Other methods

[jamesoutlaw]

I heard a guy on a talk radio show once that said he would send garbage (banana peels, coffee grounds, etc) in junk mail return envelopes, lol.

Re:Other methods

[Jebediah21]

It's getting harder to do this now, especially with some credit card companies. Some of the envelopes now have a customer (wouldn't that be harrassee?) locator code with a barcode and threatening message printed on the back of the envelope. Take a look, I scanned one of them in. Sure, there are ways around it, but still.

Re:Other methods

[susano_otter]

How about feces? Think that would make the right statement?

Well, sure, if that statement is "Look at me! I'm sending biohazardous material through the U.S. mail!" ;)

Re:Other methods

[jamesoutlaw]

haha! exactly.... i think that will be taking things a little too far.

Re:Other methods

[whovian]

Rather than use the obvious external bar code, they could instead encode customer information using steganography/digital watermarking in the security lining of the envelope interior.

Anybody want to patent that idea?

Re:Other methods

[Jebediah21]

Go for the patent! Of course, that would cost the credit card people $. They just want to stop people from fucking up thier processing machines, not sue them (too much money).

Re:The Quick Hangup

[siskbc]

You know what works better? When you answer and there's a pause, you know it's a telemarketer. So when I hear another voice on the other end, I spew vulgarities in another language. Chinese works, because chances are the guy on the other end won't know if you make a few words up. They always remove you if you do that, and it's fun too. ;)

I do agree

[nurb432]

Yes i agree that they dont, i was only making the comment that is the basis of their suit, and the way things are going in the nation, they will most likely prevail.

Its wrong, but when to the citizens ever win?

Re:Is There a _US_ No Call List?

[macdaddy357]

Kentucky has one, too. It works flawlessly. Not one telemarketer since I signed up. A federal do not call list would put this racket out of business for good.

Many states have this...

[sleepingsquirrel]

Check to see if your state has this type of law.

Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Missouri, New York, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Texas, Vermont, Wisconsin, Wyoming,

See Also, The Feds

This just in

[Inoshiro]

Greedy megacorps that are unregulated will rip customers off in exchange for higher profits. Unbound by regular control methods (competition, governmen-set rules), these monsters rape and pillage in a fashion similar to the Vikings that plagued England 1,000 years ago.

FTC is considering opt-out "no call" database

[darkuncle]

Apparently my submission of this same story was too late, but I included a link to the FTC proposal to create a national registry of numbers that telemarketers CANNOT call. They have extended the public comment period, so go make yourself heard.

Re:The Quick Hangup

[Oliver Wendell Jones]

I bought a little gadget that plugs in between the phone and the wall that is called an EZ Hangup (or something similar) and when you press the button it make a loud bonging noise twice and then plays a recorded message of something like "We do not wish to accept these types of calls, please take this as your notice to remove us from your calling list" and then repeats. Only something like $9 on ebay, IIRC.

Oh Bother!

[jabber01]

Whenever I am in need of some amusement that can only be had by sadistically tormenting another human being, I answer the telemarketting call pretending to be my own next of kin.

I politely explain to the caller that I had been killed a week prior in a terrible car accident, and that as a result, I am no longer interested in health insurance, long distance service, vinyl siding or a penis extension. This is the source of much amusement.

I further request that I be permanently removed from their call list, since I am, quite dead, and thus unlikely to be interested in their offer, no matter of remarkably opportune, in the forseeable future. This reduces my future call load.

If they've not complied and hung up by this point, I become audibly emotional (cue my sobbing girlfriend in the background) and become irate about the insensitivity of the caller, and their corporate policy. This is the fun, sadistic part.

On occasion, when dealing with a cold-call from a business which clearly got my number second or even third hand, I've claim to have died many months ago, in order to raise the question of validity of the information they purchase.

Since the marketting calls in my area wax and wane over the period of several weeks, this can be literally hours of fun each week. I highly recommend it.

Can't Those People Spell?

[Steve B]

According to the suits, the laws that prevent the telemarketers are violating their 1st amendment right to free speech as well as unfairly restricting business.

The Constitutional right to say what you like is "free speech". The supposed "right" to impose yourself upon an unwilling audience at the target's expense is "free speach".

It's So Simple

[tomblackwell]

"If you want to stop the calls, don't buy anything"

You mean if I stop buying stuff, all telemarketing will end? I didn't realize I played such a pivotal role in all of this. I thought that the thousands of losers who actually bought stuff from telemarketers had some sway, too.

Thanks for setting me straight.

One way of getting rid of telemarketers...

[Cheese Cracker]

When I switched to Sprint some four months ago, telemarketers started to call like crazy (8-10
calls a day) regarding changing long distance etc. I thought... why not wasting their time and
money by setting up my answering machine to pick up the call on the second ring? (since their
computer hanged up on the third) Sure enough, they continued to call, and my answering machine
picked up and they had to listen to my message. (they never left any messages.) It continued for
four days and then they took me off their list. I've not had a signle telemarketer calling me from
that day on! I guess they didn't like to get their time wasted and lose money on each call my
answering machine picked up. :)

There IS a law!

[MacAndrew]

But it stinks, because the DMA "helped" them write it. People who you've done business with get a free ride, but you should of course demand off of their list -- and forbid them from selling the list to anyone else.

You have to go through a song and dance to invoke the protection of the law, and of course the underpaid person on the line won't know what you're talking about (please don't yell at them unless they're rude; it's the company's fault and they just need a job). Here's a script that purports to hit all the points.

The DMA also offers a telemarketing opt-out at their site, but annoyingly it's a form you have to print, sign, and mail in (wouldn't it be terrible for some prankster to opt you out of these calls). It times out after 5 years, and I have no idea whether it does enough. It only applies to DMA members, or others who voluntarily use the service. Here is another opt-out.

Even picking up the phone to hang up can cause you problems. The autodialer will note that the number is valid, and what time of day you're home. Cute, huh?

We have a talking caller ID and nowadays never pick up if it's "caller unknown." I don't know who that guy is, but I'm going to strangle him.

I got one...

[Amazing Quantum Man]

From AT&T trying to sell me on their local service.

Now, I use AT&T for my long distance (got a deal with my cell... when the contract's up, I'll probably change), so I had a little bit of leverage.

This drone wouldn't take "Not interested." for an answer, so I told them, "Hang up NOW, or I will call AT&T and cancel my existing service, and tell them that it was your telemarketing company!"

They hung up.

Re:I got one...

[Farmer Jimbo]

Why are you even saying no? Just ask to be put on the DNC list. If they fail to comply, they owe you money.

I simply don't fucking understand people who think they are obligated to be polite to telemarketers.

Re:I got one...

[The Vulture]

Scary thing is that I was in a similar situation, and the same thing worked.

I had AT&T for cable TV at my residence, and I was constantly getting phone calls from AT&T to switch over to their new digital phone service. Every time I told them that I wasn't interested, but they kept on calling.

Eventually one time that they called, I said, "I am not interested in whatever products that AT&T is offering. The only reason that I have AT&T as my cable TV provider is because they're the local cable monopoly, and I can't get it from anybody else. If you continue to harass me with your telemarketing calls, I will cancel my cable TV service, and let them know why."

Never got any more telemarketing calls from AT&T for anything after that.

(Yes, I know, I could have gotten satellite or something else other than cable, but it was convenient).

-- Joe

Re:I got one...

[Amazing Quantum Man]

Because I couldn't even get a word in edgewise... I tried to tell them "Not interested and put me on your DNC list", but they interrupted after "interested".

I finally got pissed and tried to give them some idea of what dickheads they were bing.

Recording telemarketers' calls

[dstone]

If you've ever wondered about the legalities of recording calls without one side knowing about it:
Can We Tape? (Summary: In most states, it's legal.)
Though I don't have a link, I am fairly certain this practice is legal in all Canadian provinces also.

Something to think about, if you've ever considered threatening or cursing at a telemarketer (very likely), or if you find they do it to you (less likely).

And thank goodness.

[raygundan]

I love it. I got 4 calls in the first month after it went active for me (down from 4 or 5 daily), and filing a complaint was fairly easy and seems to have shut them all up. I haven't been called since.

Re:Georgia has the same type of system. It works,

[mosch]

Pennsylvania has a similar website.

Suits against the laws & NAFTA

[No Such Agency]

Under NAFTA Chapter 11, companies can sue governments for passing laws which restrict their ability to do business. From citizens.org:

Called "investor-to-state" dispute resolution, this extraordinary mechanism empowers private investors and corporations to sue NAFTA-signatory governments in special tribunals to obtain cash compensation for government policies or actions that investors believe violate their new rights under NAFTA.

I don't know if this would apply here, but I wouldn't be surprised. It's been used already in numerous cases (see link).

Only reason for landlines..

[AlphaInsight]

Are for when my cell phone battery is dead, or I need to send a fax. (Although I can technically do that with my cell phone, I don't).

Simple way to make people go away.

"AT C0S0=1" Sent to your modem and have a nice day. Just make sure next time you dial out to set "C1" though or it won't work.

"AT"=Attention, "C0" Disable Transmitter (prevent would be war dialers), "S0=1"=Auto answer 1 ring.

Call Privacy services are a (bad) joke...

[jpdbest]

I subscribed to Bell Call Privacy up here in Canada, which blocks calls without Caller-ID numbers or allows you to program numbers to screen out. I have to say that I am less than impressed with the results. The reason I got call privacy was so I could stop the relentless telemarketer calls I was getting in the evenings and early Saturday morning. These days the calls all come from long distance numbers (about a half dozen all within the same PBX). If you try to screen out the number, the Call Privacy service rejects it! I called up a Bell operator to find out what was going on, and apparently these numbers showing up in Caller-ID belong to cell phones and that the service doesn't allow these to be screened out! Um, excuse me? So basically I'm paying for a service that is only effective at blocking my work phone and my friends number...

I think it's time to try out that sit.wav (do a google search for sit.wav, it's the three-tone 'the number you have dialed has been disconnected' sound). I know it's been mentioned here before with the Telezapper. This month's Wired talks about it, and apparently you only need to use the first tone at the beginning of your message in order to fool the telemarketer auto-dialers.

Re:Recording your calls

[kent_eh]

That is not required in every state, nor in every country.
For instance, in Canada, as long as one party to the conversation is aware that the recording is happening, then it's ok.

Anti-telemarketing script

[MImeKillEr]

See it here.

Someone please mirror this and reply to this msg to keep it from getting /.ed...

Re:Anti-telemarketing script

[Call Me Black Cloud]

I've actually used that script. It's pretty funny...

Hey, you know, if it is slashdotted it will come back. Slashdotting is not some permanent erasure but a temporary unavailability. Just bookmark it (I have a "slashdotted" folder) and come back in a week.

AT&T is really bad

[m11533]

I hate to think about how much business with me AT&T has lost due to their poor record keeping or just plain sleezy tactics, though I doubt it is the latter.

My wife and I have been customers of local AT&T broadband phone as well as AT&T long distance. This is relevent because we have been getting solicitations to switch our local phone server to AT&T broadband at least twice a week for months. What have they to gain from selling me a service I already have? Even worse, when I tell them I'm already a customer THEY DON'T GET IT and continue their pitch.

If they do stop their pitch, I always stump them with the "If you can sell me a package with local, long distance, high speed internet (cable or DSL, don't care much), & cell". Every once in a while they answer that they can't do that as AT&T Wireless is not the same company, at which point I go into the circular argument about how AT&T Wireless couldn't use the AT&T name without being part of AT&T.

The bottom line is that the service we get from AT&T Broadband for our local telephone service is FAR better than the original carrier, but AT&T customer service is AWFUL, and that includes their telemarketing.

I worked on the 611 for a Canadian Telco

[spac]

This past summer I spent a few months with a large, evil Canadian telecom company. The system in place to obtain an unlisted number or block unwanted calls is simply twisted.

The telco trained us to only suggest privacy services as a last resort and try to talk a customer out of it if they requested the features.

Our department was responsible for busting fax marketers that peppered our clients with unwanted junk. But whenever a client called to complain about annoying fax or telemarketing calls they receive at all hours of the night, we had to tell the poor sap to either subscribe to caller ID or spend money to *69 the call. If marketer's number was unlisted, we basically said "tough luck", even when we had the number right on our screen.

An open apology goes out from me to any of you that might have called me to complain about tele/fax marketers. Sorry everybody, THEY made me to it!

Salescall buster

[toybuilder]

I used to get sales calls...
... so I got the SalesCall Buster.

But then they got the SalesCall Buster Buster...
... and I had to go get a SalesCall Buster Buster.

But now, they're armed with the SalesCall Buster Buster Buster...
... and they're gonna get me now, I know it!

another, slightly more dangerous, option....

[nebenfun]

"Al Qaeda Network, this is Omar speaking, How may I help you?"

both would get you on the NSA Shitlist real fast...
nbfn

There's a slight trick to this.....

[EvilOpie]

I think that one of my friends had the best idea for how to defeat telemarketers.

Now, it's obvious that you have to pay to have for an unlisted phone number, but what you don't have to pay for is a phone number with the wrong information on it. To make a long story short, my friend's phone number was listed in the phone book under Mark Twain's real name.

Knowing this, one could use the phone book to look for their phone number. But when telemarketers tried to do this, they'd ask for "Samuel Clemens" at which point my friend would reply with "sorry... you have the wrong number."

Worked like a charm. :-) and he didn't have to pay for services to get rid of telemarketers either.

Do you live in Oklahoma?

[AntiNorm]

If so, then go here to be placed on the state's new do-not-call list.

Why need fancy devices?

[dmomo]

Symonette, for instance, bought a $150 Siemens phone that "speaks" the caller's name and number, so he won't actually have to get out of bed to learn who's calling. It seems like a computer should be able to do anything that these gadgets can do. I was wondering was if there were an open API for voice modem operations, that included call-id/call-waiting capabilities. And if so, why is it that such software is not freely available. There may be some barrier that I fail to see. I would appreciate any input on this.

Republicans

[fizban]

If I hear anymore Republicans talk about "Self-Regulation, Self-Regulation! Waaa! Waaa! Self-Regulation," I'm gonna scream. THIS telco shit, ladies and gentlemen, is what self-regulation brings. Anyone who thinks government shouldn't get involved in this, please step forward so I can kick you in the nuts.

simple...

[csguy314]

just cut out the middle-man. Sell your own phone number to the companies. That'll show those telco's!

Georgia (USA-state) has a no call list too.

[darnellmc]

See https://www.ganocall.com/

Problem is that you have to pay the state to stay on the list. It's $5 for 2 years on the list. So you still lose in a way, because the state gets paid. And we all know that government is the biggest boss and collector of "protection money" of them all ;o)

Simple Solution, No Money Required

[L0neW0lf]

If you do not have a "Do Not Call List" in your state, and you get a telemarketing call, state the following:

"Per the Federal Telecommunications Consumer Protection Act of 1990, I would like to be placed on your federally mandated Do Not Call List. I would like written notification of this, and a copy of your Do Not Call policy mailed to me."

This law actually exists. I've just memorized the spiel and can repeat it back verbatim. The amount of calls I get has dropped 90 percent. I found out about it when Sixty Minutes had a thing about it several years back, a guy in New York actually keeps track of the people calling him and sues them if they call him a second time. For $20 mailed to him, he'll even submit your name to the proper Do Not Call lists and then go to bat for you legally if someone violates it. Wish I had a transcript of that one.

Re:Simple Solution, No Money Required

[lildogie]

..."I would like to be placed on your federally mandated Do Not Call List. I would like written notification of this, and a copy of your Do Not Call policy mailed to me."

Yeah, but then I have to give them my address.

It's bad enough already that they have my phone number.

"No call" lists don't include businesses.

[Skapare]

The "No call" lists don't include businesses. They are only for residential lines. This is absurd. When I get a call at home I can let my asnwering machine say "Telemarketers fuck off, all others leave a message at the beep". I can't do that from a business phone. Yet the "No call" lists won't do business lines. Why is that? That's where I need it most.

Re:"No call" lists don't include businesses.

[dcavanaugh]

I fully agree. The volume of sales calls I get makes the phone pretty much useless as a business tool. I screen as many calls as I can through voice mail.

Among the worst calls I get are surveys. As soon as I realize it's a survey, I say "We don't respond to surveys" and then hang up. The clueless morons at Harte-Hanks have called me about 10 times in the past six months.

I wonder if I should just tell all the teletrash callers that the company is going out of business, just to see if it reduces the call volume.

Answering machines rock

[lordaych]

I have a cheap-o digital answering machine that I picked up for $15. I keep my ringer off or at least low, keep the volume at a decent level, and set the message to "You've reached blah blah, calls from solicitors will not be returned." This prevents most solicitors from ever getting a hold of me, but there have been a few obnoxious cases where they will rattle off their shpiel, and almost every time it is either due to a political campaign call (in Colorado I've noticed a heavy load of anti-Mike Feely campaigning; whether he's good or bad, his opponent is a scumbag who has sunk to the lowest possible level by calling people with live and automated messages, sending out endless fliers that all repeat the same drivel, etc) or a moronic satellite-dish salesperson. My favorite thing to do when this happens is to pick up the line while they're wasting the space on my machine, and scream "I SAID NO SOLICITORS!" and then hang up. Hopefully that gives them a sufficient jolt.

Personally I think it's rude to be excessively mean and nasty to telemarketers, especially in this crap economy; sure, there are plenty of better jobs they could be looking for, but it's the idiots who actually buy this stuff that perpetuate the cycle, and not the phone-slaves who feel the need to stick with whatever pays the bills. But when they deliberately waste the limited space on my machine after being told "calls from solicitors will not be returned," I feel they've crossed a line and deserve the worst.

Another fun thing to do with them is to let my girlfriend pick up the phone, and as she tries to gently wriggle her way out of the conversation without just slamming down the phone, I belt out in my best, loudest white-trash voice "Whattya doin' woman? Who you talkin' too!?" She whines in her best dimunitive dame voice and I yell at her to hang up the damned phone.

When I was younger and still lived with my parents, I'd just extract a bunch of WAV files from DOOM for DOS using DMAUD, and would create a little batch file to play them back in horrific sequence. *shotgun blast* *imp dies* *demon attack* *human death scream* etc...whoohoo.

Pavlov

[Cyno01]

ringing little bells for the encouragement of the telemarketers, how pavlovian

CACTUS!

[Cyno01]

i always just cactus telemarketers:) re: if u get the reference:)

Alas Re:Automated Dialers

[lildogie]

There seems to be a loophole for political campaigns.

Shocking (NOT).

Wisconsin...

[Cyno01]

we started this in wisconsin not too long ago, they started advertising an 800 number you could call to get you name put on the do not call list, unfortunately they chose a used listed number to proceed the 800 number, that family got hundreds of calls from people wanting on the list who didn't dial the 1800, Here's the Article

I know this but am still mean

[Nf1nk]

While it is not the person who actulay calls fault, I still must be a jerk to encourage them to quit, becaues if they quit a new person must be hired, and trained and this costs the real villians money. As an added benifit the job of telemarketer gets its deserved reputation as being a speacial level of hell. This causes telemarketers to gt paid fairly well for their job.

nate

Avoiding telemarketers...

[sakeneko]

I get almost no telemarketing calls whatsoever. This is how:

• My home phone number is unlisted.

• My home phone number has voicemail, and the recorded message tells telemarketers to hang up and to add my number to their no-call lists.

• I leave the ringer on my home phone number turned off, so that people who want to contact me that way must leave a message.

• I make sure that family and friends have my cell phone number and call it when they want to reach me, not my voice mail.

• I do not print my cell phone number on my business cards -- if I want someone to have it, I write it on the card by hand.

In the last few months, I've gotten two or three "prerecords" -- automated callers that left recorded messages on my voice mail. I reported those to the phone company and California AG, since they are illegal. I have never gotten a telemarketing call to my cell phone, and have never been disturbed by one to my home phone number either.

When California has a do-not-call list, I will list the home phone and cell phone. If that proves to open the floodgates to telemarketers calling my cell phone, I'll just change the number and not repeat that mistake. :)

Charges

[Danse]

In Texas, they charge you $2.25 to get on the list for 3 years. Ya'll getting charged in other states?

Cox has something similiar ...

[afxgrin]

Being a Customer Service Professional (aka: phone rep) for the Telephony department at Cox Communications, some telemarketers don't block their Call ID string (but if you call that number back, it usually just hangs up on you automatically).

The BEST thing you can do to avoid telemarketers is this:
1) Once you get your phone number, make sure the telco does not publish your phone number. (Cox offers this at $1 / month)

2) Get a CallID blocking feature enabled on the phone (make sure it's permanent, not the per use * feature). Many companies who have call centers for taking orders/fast food (eg. Pizza Hut), log all the CallID strings, and sell those to telemarketing companies. This helps block these companies from selling this info. (Cox offers this service for free)

OR

If your telco provides the feature, get a phone anti-Solicitation service through your telco. Cox in the Phoenix AZ market does not currently offer this, but are looking too. I know Qwest offers this, but since the discussion is about Telcos making money off these features, I'd go with the other solution.

--A little off topic now but whatever.....

Don't wanna get upsold on crap while on the phone discussing your bill? Request to have permission to your CPNI revoked. CPNI is Customer Proprietary Network Information, meaning we can't attempt to even upsell you for phone services if we don't have permission to your info. If there's an attempt to upsell you, and you requested your CPNI revoked, to my knowledge if you report it to the FCC (or depending on your state, in Arizona there's the Arizona Corporate Commission, who would deal with this to my knowledge as well) the offending company suffers penalties around $50,000.

This is just with phone services though .......... cable is a whole different story.

I'm really hungry now, so I'm going to stop writing this post now.

(By the way, I live no where near Phoenix, actually I'm near Niagara Falls on the Canadian side of the border..)

Re:Cox has something similiar ...

[Spazholio]

Untrue about the CPNI. It simply means they can't offer to sell you CERTAIN things. Most of the reps are unaware of this, but the company is well within its rights to offer you products, even if you revoke your CPNI. Admittedly, this is in FL, and yes, I do work for a prominent telco (I'll leave it to your powers of deduction to determine which one).

If you really don't want to have them try to upsell you, just tell them at the beginning of the call. Most people that you talk to work on a Pay-For-Performance sliding pay scale, but the calls from the people that just call in and request a service make up enough sales for them to meet their quota, so they aren't all that interested in selling. If you tell them at the beginning of the call, "I understand it's part of your job, but please don't try to sell me anything," and do it politely, they'll be more than happy to shut the hell up. Either because they want to get you off the damned phone so that they actually have a sales opportunity with the next call, or because they aren't required to sell you anything now that you've made it known you're not in the buying mood. Trust me, up until 3 weeks ago, I worked in a telco sales call center, and this is the view of about 90% of the people on the floor.

one more thing .... argh ...

[afxgrin]

To cause a lot of problems for telemarketers, request to have permission to your CPNI revoked!

If we sell your info/calling habits to another company, and you've requested your CPNI revoked, there's some REALLY hefty fine to my understanding. (they drilled us pretty heavily into ENSURING we check for CPNI permission, even though maybe 10 people in Phoenix have revoked permission)

Just remember to do that once you setup a new phone line.

time for food!

The ultimate solution:

[Dark Lord Seth]

Leave the phone of the hook if you don't want to be called.

Why don't they just...

[tlambert]

Why don't they just start selling both medical malpractice insurance, to drive up medical costs, and individual medical insurance, to cover the inflated costs?

At least that's an honest scam...

-- Terry

Re:I for a telemarketing company

[dcavanaugh]

I guess the job at the grammar company didn't work out.