High Tech Shopping Carts Offer Discounts, Ads

An anonymous reader writes "'Imagine walking down a supermarket aisle and hearing a chime as you pass the peanut butter letting you know it's on sale. Or picture reading the local five-day weather forecast, checking the Dow Jones industrial average and finding a new chicken and rice recipe, all from your shopping basket. Souped up with a computer attachment, your shopping cart could become a know-it-all that gives you special discounts based on what you buy or provides news and information as you sail through grocery aisles.' Full story here, and the Cart manufacturer's site here. I might just have to warshop in Moraga today..."

Comments

Grr.....

[GeckoFood]

The first time a shopping cart tells me that SPAM is on sale, I'm going to bludgeon a manager!

Re:Grr.....

[dalassa]

I don't know if this is better worse than what a Kroger's in Durham, NC has. When you go near the vegatables a speaker plays rain noises. When you are near the eggs another speaker clucks and when you are near the meat a speaker moos. How is that supposed to make me buy stuff?

Re:Grr.....

[0x0d0a]

There was some killer that got off of eating his victims, part-by-part alive...presumably the screams became associated with food in a Pavlovian-like response and would make him feel hungry.

So I guess if you were like him, the cows would make you feel hungry for cow?

Nagging shopping carts

[tomhudson]

More stupid applications of hi-tech. I can see it now. The earplugs are chiming "buy me, and you wopn't have to listen to the stupid peanut butter anymore".

Re:Nagging shopping carts

[Midwedge]

Yeah I can see that this has the potential of being a pain (advertisements constantly playing, like the TV's at Walmart)... Yet I can see some really useful applications.

How about a built in scanner so you can see how much something costs or keep track of how much you are spending?

Or a guide function showing you where a product is.

Re:Nagging shopping carts

[aridhol]

How about a built in scanner so you can see how much something costs or keep track of how much you are spending?

Now there's a useful idea. Thing is, it won't happen. If you are shopping and you keep seeing this number counting up in front of you every time you put something in your basket, you'll subconsciously want to keep that number low. So you'll probably buy less than you would if the cost hits you all at once at the register.

Re:Nagging shopping carts

[csteinle]

How about a built in scanner so you can see how much something costs or keep track of how much you are spending?

One of the supermarkets in the UK does something like this. Sainsbury's, I think. Even better, they trust you. You carry a barcode scanner with you (there's a holder for it on the trolley), and scan all the stuff you put in your trolley. It keeps a running total on it's screen, and at the check out you just hand over the reader. You need to be a member of their loyalty card scheme, and you do get random manual checks every so often, but it seems like a great queue saver.

Re:Nagging shopping carts

[tomhudson]

A real time saver? What a piss-off. I WANT to talk to the pretty girl at the cash register. I'm probably the first person to actually talk to her as a human being since she's gone on-shift. Besides, since she's taking my money, I want at least a smile in return.

Anyway, that's my policy with service people - since some of them are my friends off-hours too.

Re:Nagging shopping carts

[elmegil]

It's called a calculator. They're cheep, so this is not a particular barrier to "have nots". Or if you want to be REALLY high tech, you can use a palm pilot.

C'mon people, how damned lazy do you have to be? If you need to track your money that closely, you can do it without the annoying crap. If you aren't already doing so, spoonfeeding it by placing it in the cart isn't likely to help.

Re:Nagging shopping carts

[Eros]

Here in Phoenix AZ at least this is in full effect at the local Costcos and Price Clubs (mass warehouse food, and various products companies).

I can go inside. Insert my membership card into a display case and remove a portable electronic scanner to scan my own items. It gives me the last item's price and a total including tax. I can add and remove items easily. Once I'm done I return the scanner to the case and it prints a ticket with the total and a barcode. I go through an express checkout where my cart is weighed and ticket scanned. If the cart's weight is off they take the time to check the items. Otherwise I pay and go.

Not to mention the local markets also have lanes where I can walk up to a scan station and scan everything myself. This allows one employee to monitor 4 scanning stations(that sit in the same space as 2) and allows me to not have my bread sitting under my milk.

The only harm one could possibly see is that it reduces jobs.

Re:Nagging shopping carts

[tomhudson]

... in a checkout line? Stop and look at most of the people waiting in the checkout line. They don't smile, they look like their dog just got run over, they're only thinking "I want to get out of here!"

The last thing on their mind is chatting up the cashier.

Re:Nagging shopping carts

[dubiousmike]

Its like if you have a car that shows instant gas millage. I had to turn it off as it caused me to drive like a pussy.

:P

Fond Memories

[The Dobber]

The "cost per kill" of Hunting The Silver Buffalo just got higher.

the real reason

[dirvish]

The real purpose is customer tracking. The only reason stores are going to spend money on this kind of stuff is to better seperate customers from their money. If they can profile customers they can better market towards them.

Re:the real reason

[sjlutz]

And profiling customers is a bad thing? Here's my take on it:
1) Advertising isn't going away, it's increasing, we are getting bombarded everywhere, now even in video game.

2) Why not give enough information to the sellers so that they can give me offers that I might actually like?

Example, if everytime I passed the Diaper isle, I was told about the sale on Pampers, I would ignore because I don't need diapers. Worse, it would become annoying. But if everytime I walked down the soda isle and was told Mountain Dew was on sale, I would buy it, even if I didn't need it, because we all know you can never have too much Dew.. For those privacy advocates out there, do you REALLY care that the managers of a supermarket know you buy a pack of pringles every shopping trip? Yes, I do care if the government wants to know, but not some store managers .

Re:the real reason

[scott1853]

They mostly already track you in grocery stores. All the major chains I go to have Club Cards that give you little discounts for certain items, but you know the real reason is to track your buying habits.

I don't think talking peanut butter is there to necessarily track you, but probably to just make you notice it. Sort of like all the stacks of things they put int he middle of the isles to get in your way. It's just so you'll look at it.

Re:the real reason

[bmwm3nut]

i don't care if the store manager knows if i buy a pack of pringles every trip. but i do care if the store manager sells that information to the makers pringles. or if he sells that information to the lays and they start sending me advertisements to get me to switch. i hate advertising, even if it's for something i use. all i want to know when i go to the store is the price of what i want to buy. i'll make my own decision on which product to buy.

Re:the real reason

[kevinank]

The real purpose is customer tracking. The only reason stores are going to spend money on this kind of stuff is to better seperate customers from their money. If they can profile customers they can better market towards them.

That may be the only reason that has any real importance, but most of that information could be inferred from the checkout records. In any case, I tend to avoid stores that try to optimize for customer spending; Pack N Save, and Toys R Us spring immediately to mind, with their forced traipse through aisle of garbage before you are permitted to walk to the aisle that has what you really came in for.

Actually my recent buying has been through online boutiques. The kids toys, clothing, etcetera that you can find in little online web pages goes way beyond the trash posing as products available in Babies R Us.

Re:the real reason

[Ed Avis]

If they can afford to give you a special 10% 'discount' on peanut butter and still sell it at a profit, they're clearly not that keenly priced to start with. The shops which offer the best value for money will not have such special deals targeted at particular consumers, though they might offer volume discounts.

Re:the real reason

[stratjakt]

You don't care until the you get the wrong shopping cart, and it shrieks, at the top of it's digital lungs "HEY, BACKISSUES OF PLAYGIRL ARE ON SALE 2 FOR A DOLLAR WITH PURCHASE OF LARGE DRUM OF VASELINE"

Re:the real reason

[s.a.m]

Actually my company had this idea a year and a half ago. We talked with American Express to team up with them about it. The idea was excellent and in fact we had the basic concept mapped out. Problem with it was we had no funding and resources to do this.

The president and I sat down and worked out the simple logic for it and basically we really don't care what each individual was buying. Our software would determine that and we'd get trends etc, but no one person would ever know what an individual would buy. Unless you specifically asked to see that person's buying habbits.

Re:the real reason

[The Visiting Priest]

Yes, profiling customers is a bad thing (for the customer).

You think that if you buy mountain dew frequently that they're going to give you a discount? Dream on. You'll more likely find out that mountain dew is the one beverage that you NEVER get a discount on.

(But their competitors might start offering discounts on stuff you'd never drink in a million years)

Re:the real reason

[TheWickedKingJeremy]

There is no reason why buying preferences need to be stored indefinitely and associated with an individual.

A better way of accomplishing this - if you are putting Gerber baby food in your cart, the computer will tell you that diapers are also on sale because the two items are linked in the store's database. Or, if you are buying the latest issue of Wired, the computer would automatically assume it would be pointless to tell this customer that condoms are on sale in aisle 12. ;)

My point is that advertising can be better focused without having a huge, all-knowing database.

Re:the real reason

[5KVGhost]

That's true, of course. But it's not necessarily a bad thing.

Once upon a time, for example, everyone's shopping habits were "tracked" by the grocer behind the counter. He could easily gauge the buying habits of all his regular customers and make appropriate recommendations. The anonymity of the modern shopping experience is more of an accident than an expectation.

Re:the real reason

[ChaosDiscord]

For those privacy advocates out there, do you REALLY care that the managers of a supermarket know you buy a pack of pringles every shopping trip?

The problem isn't that the manager knows. The problem is that any number of "trusted" employees will know. One or more of employees may be willing to resell (or just give away) your information. Heck, for the right amount of money I'm sure the store will happily sell the information. I for one purchase personal hygiene and pharmacy products at my local supermarket. If I'm a politician trying to appease a rigid Catholic demographic, I might prefer that my political opponents not be able to prove that I purchase of condoms or birth control pills. I'd rather my health insurance didn't have the opportunity to analyze my buying habits of aspirin and antacids to decide if I've become too risky. Or even if my health insurance decides I buy too much junk food, my auto insurance decides that I buy too much alcohol. Or perhaps my opponent for a county board seat will get the information and claim, "Bob sure buys alot of alcohol, are you sure you want someone who buys that much alcohol on the board?" A potential employer might make collecting such information part of their check on me before hiring me.

The probably isn't that the store knows. To the store I'm only interesting as a relatively anonymous consumer. The problem is that once the information is collected that it will become available to other people who may be interested in me personally. There is a serious risk of abuse. If government agents who have been specifically screened for security purposes occasionally decide to abuse the information (like Robert Hanseen, a few Michigan police, amoung other cases), why should I trust the night shift manager at my local supermarket who hates his job at my local supermarket?

Re:the real reason

[theBrownfury]

Its because of reasons like this and this and this that I don't want any sort of profit oriented organization or government collecting information about my lifestyle.

Re:the real reason

[zericm]

But if everytime I walked down the soda isle and was told Mountain Dew was on sale, I would buy it, even if I didn't need it, because we all know you can never have too much Dew.. For those privacy advocates out there, do you REALLY care that the managers of a supermarket know you buy a pack of pringles every shopping trip? Yes, I do care if the government wants to know, but not some store managers .

Guess what Slick, the government wants to know:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/96167_safi re 19.shtml

And even if the governement wants to know, I don't want Safeway collecting information on my shopping habits and then selling that information to other companies. You may be willing to sell your privacy for a few cents off a can of soda, but I'm not willing to sell out so cheap.

thx,
eric

Re:the real reason

[deblau]

1) Advertising isn't going away, it's increasing, we are getting bombarded everywhere, now even in video game.

2) Why not give enough information to the sellers so that they can give me offers that I might actually like?

My response:

1) The Nazis aren't going away, abductions are on the rise, we are getting seeing them everywhere, now even on our street.

2) Why not give enough information to the Gestapo so that they can kidnap Jews at a time that I might actually like?

Do you see anything wrong with your logic now?

Re:the real reason

[YrWrstNtmr]

Yes, I do care if the government wants to know, but not some store managers .

With Total Information Awareness, they will both know.

Re:the real reason

[clark625]

While I agree with you, I don't think there is any reason to fear companies or individuals making this information available to others. Most grocery stores (for example) really only care that you have their card for profiling--but the name isn't a concern at all. They typically ask for a first name and a phone number (in case they find it on the floor), but even the number doesn't have to be given out. Really, all they care about is tying a unique (or semi-unique in the case of husband/wife) number to product purchases. This allows them to see trends. And if it allows me to get a cheaper price on alcohol, condoms, and feminine hygene products, that's good in my book.

I just really don't see how in the current market stores will ever care to track you by "Doe, John" versus "23786138590". To them, a unique number satisfies their needs and so it's risky to push the boundary further into the realm of privacy. That doesn't mean they will never get there, though--so it's good to be careful.

Re:the real reason

[Tackhead]

> > Yes, I do care if the government wants to know, but not some store managers .
>
>With Total Information Awareness, they will both know.

As much as I think TIA's a cool idea in principle, it fails to address the human factor, and that may be its undoing.

Your grocer will know there's a swarthy-looking guy who says he lives alone, but buys enough groceries to feed a family of four, and he always picks up a case of beer and a few slices of ham, a pack of hotdogs, and a copy of Hustler, which he handles while wearing thick rubber gloves (even in summertime) while muttering something about how hard it is to stay clean in this country of filth as his credit card is cleared.

The properietor of the local anarchist bookstore or Internet cafe will remember something about a swarthy-looking guy who drops by every couple of months ago lookin' for the latest books or textfiles on bomb-making, always paying with cash.

The electronic monitoring systems will have Total Information Awareness of Juan Doe, regular conbsumer of groceries, alcohol, pork products, and pr0n.

When the bomb goes off, it'll be blamed on Hispanic rednecks and/or the Internet, because Juan Doe clearly wasn't a Muslim, but the ratio of the residues in the blast corresponded to a recipe in the Anarchist's Cookbook.

TIA is cool, and will probably be a very helpful tool, but it's not a substitute for HUMINT. The minute our policymakers and policy-implementors lose sight of this fact, we're at risk.

Re:the real reason

[Tackhead]

> I don't think talking peanut butter is there to necessarily track you, but probably to just make you notice it.

Kid: "Grandpa, what was it like when you were young?"

Geezer: "Well, until 2002, we had a word for people who tried to talk about what that jar of talking peanut butter was trying to accomplish. Instead of putting them in charge of grocery chains, we called them nuts, and we locked them up."

Skippy: "It was an unenlightened era. Want some toast?"

Re:the real reason

[YrWrstNtmr]

TIA is cool, and will probably be a very helpful tool,...

No, the real concept is, the government has no business tracking what books I buy!

Re:the real reason

[kin_korn_karn]

Sorry dude, you totally fucked up your credibility by quoting Ayn Rand in your sig. Why do the people with common sense have to be so enamored with psychopaths?

Re:the real reason

[bnenning]

They typically ask for a first name and a phone number (in case they find it on the floor), but even the number doesn't have to be given out.

All the stores I've gotten cards from wanted a full name, address, and driver's license number. Fortunately, they don't verify any of it.

Re:the real reason

[sludg-o]

Why did you single out Catholics as being opposed to birth control? I'm Catholic and I try to use condoms, and my wife does her best to remember to take the pill. Double protection has probably saved our lifestyle more thaan once. Sure we have a single head of our church (the Pope for the clueless), but we have not considered his opinions infallibale for hundreds of years.

Re:the real reason

[ChaosDiscord]

Why did you single out Catholics as being opposed to birth control?

My apologies, I meant no offense. I was simply looking for examples and that happened to be something I found. I took sex ed at a Catholic high school, so I'm intimately familiar with the Catholic church's official teachings on the matter. (Not to denegrate the high school, the local diocese wasn't entirely pleased with the high school because it, in part, explained the church's position, then gave clear explanations on the effectiveness of various birth control methods and basically said, "You're too young, but if you're going to, use a condom.")

Sure we have a single head of our church (the Pope for the clueless), but we have not considered his opinions infallibale for hundreds of years.

Interestingly, based on personal experiences, there is an increasingly large number of people who identify themselves as Catholic, but maintain beliefs that go contrary to official church policy. A lot of "the core religion is good, but some of the beuracracy has become detached from the Truth." I place alot of hope in the rejuvination of the church by these people.

(Wow, are we off topic.)

Re:the real reason

[TheWickedKingJeremy]

I agree, as the post you responded to indicates.

Shoppings carts with computers..

[MongooseCN]

This gives the side benefit of getting homeless people online.

Re:Shoppings carts with computers..

[_ph1ux_]

back in '99 when all the VC money was flying to anyone with a pulse I tried to start eHobo.com

This was where you could go and get accessories for your carts, get corporate sponsored cardboard housing etc...

We would sell luxury collapsable cardboard condos, a tow strap for your shopping cart that you wore like a backpack (which allowed for hands free mobility!)

for some reason - I couldnt get funding.

Re:Shoppings carts with computers..

[YaRness]

actually that's what public libraries are for, see The Homless Guy blog.

Worth it?

[natron 2.0]

Is something like this really worth it for the consumer? If a grocery store purchases these to replace thier current fleet of shopping carts than perhaps they will have to raise thier prices on their products to account for the price of all those carts. So when you go down the aisle and you see that the peanut butter is on sale, are you really saving money or is the sale price the same price that it used to be before they purchased all those carts?

Pleeeeeeze.

[AyeRoxor!]

I remember when Kash n Karry (a redneck we-cant-spell-isnt-it-cute) chain in Florida tried to put simple calculators in the plastic cover of the cart's pushbar. They lasted about a month. Good luck with these. The rain, the abuse, the kids in the kidseats. They had better be solid steel.

Re:Practical use!!!

[tomhudson]

So, since they're wireless, what's to keep somebody from "war-shopping", skimming the info, and generating their own 100% discount coupons?

I've already figured out how the bar codes worked at the local store, and, if I wasn't honest, I could alter the tickets that bottle refund machines give me to give back $10.00 on a 5 cent bottle.

And no, the cashier would be none the wiser - she just would scan in the altered bar-code, in either scenario.

Shopping List and Tuning Out

[aridhol]

So if you shop with a list (ie you already know what you're going to buy), this will probably be more of an annoyance than convenience. If you are one of the 70% that the article claims buys on-the-fly, it may convince you the first couple of times. After that, you'll probably tune out the sound of the cart. Remember, your cart and everybody else's carts are all trying to get your attention. If there are five people in the aisle, and they pass the sale item at staggering times (or several different items), the computer will just become so much noise rather than a meaningful message.

Great Ideas

[stoolpigeon]

(I worked for Safeway for about 7 years but left the industry about 2 years ago)

These are cool ideas that will help businesses cater to their best customers. I don't see what is wrong with that. It is usually a minority of your customers that provide the majority of your business. Keeping them happy should definitely be a priority.

Many of the ideas for the carts are very, very similar to what we we did w/the online shopping that Safeway offers. They've just moved the technology into the store- out of the browser. It is interesting to me that folks would not get so worked up about those things being in place when they are online- but get riled up when it is in the store.

I would be interested in what they do to make the hardware durable.

All Safeway stores already have wireless equipement and a LAN in the store. (we moved from token ring to ethernet here in AZ 5 or 6 years ago)

Cool stuff I think.

.

Re:Great Ideas

[stoolpigeon]

The wireless part is for ordering and also can be used to change prices. But it does not dynamically hand out ips- they are fixed- and there are no extra addresses either. So you would need to get one of the telxon devices off the network- then there is the passwords, etc.

And then there is no connection from that out to the internet. They are connected to T1s that go straight to Salt Lake (least they did when I was there)

.

How aware of their surroundings will they be?

[teamhasnoi]

When I smash my big rusty shit-van into one at 52 miles an hour will it croak, "Body Work on sale at Dave's this week...helleep meeelee..."

'Cause it's going to be open season on carts that try to sell me shit.

Die, Squeek-Wheel, DIE!

I saw this over 5 years ago

[mackman]

I saw these at a grocery store called 'Schnooks' in Kansas City over 5 years ago. LCD touch screens on every shopping cart which tracked your location. They showed little animations of where to walk to find certain items and showed you the specials for the isle you were on. Don't remember it having local news though.

If I remember correctly, there were little tracking beacons suspended from the ceiling. It was pretty cool then but it apparently never cought on. Can't imagine it will now, although I'm sure the technology is a hell of a lot cheaper.

Re:I saw this over 5 years ago

[Buran]

Schnucks. I live in St. Louis. If I were that guy, I'd have had my name changed.

And they did have those carts in my local store for a bit -- I was disappointed when they disappeared, as I had fun goofing with them. They also had digital price displays you could push a button on to get the unit price for something. Those, too, vanished.

You'd think they'd be easier to update than the "by hand" ones, but apparently not ...

Too Expencive

[Penguinoflight]

Shopping carts are just too expencive, your average shopping cart now costs about $100. Granted they're tough, but if they get a proprietary company to do this it will cost at least $400 total per cart, and people do steal these.

Potentially embarassing

[PurpleHigh]

What happens when those chimes start lighting up near embarassing items that sometimes need to be purchased? Or you look around, and everyone is staring at your cart while it announces discounts on Preparation H?

Already doomed...

[mseeger]

Hi,

a few weeks ago there were such carts in a supermarket here in Kiel (Germany). You could see customer jump in surprise when those carts started babbling. After a short period of time the customers knew, which carts were equipped with such devices and avoided them. Soon all those carts were removed from the store.

As i even dislike store clerks who try to talk to me unasked, i may not be the right person to judge this idea ;-). But if those carts become standard issue, my wire cutter would too.

Yours, Martin

So when...

[dr_dank]

the clerk goes into the parking lot to collect the stray carts, he/she will really be making a beowulf cluster of these?

How to make our lives worse

[Pac]

I can see all sorts of applications. Diet carts that will ring a bell each time you buy something not in your "allowed list", exposing you to fellowbuyers disapproving stares. Kid carts that will guide any K-12 through the most expensive and/or less healthy section of a supermarket. Spounsored carts, that will talk you to death into buying some products. The last idea can even be enhanced by having paid, add-free carts and free annoying talkative carts (think about many sites we all know). The possibilities are endless. The patience of the general public with novell ways to make them buy more, unfortunatelly, is also endless.

The biggest improvement in shopping carts...

[jea6]

...in the past 100 years is not in making them computerized...it's been making them fun for kids. My local supermarkets have this kind of kid-friendly cart. They are really great. If only more innovations addressed actual needs....

Why this is not well thought out

[(void*)]

Imagine walking down a supermarket aisle and hearing a chime as you pass the peanut butter letting you know it's on sale.

This is a silly idea - why would a chime tell me that the peanut butter is on sale. Let me consult the local SF writer and tell you how useless this would be:

• Thousands and ringing chimes all over the place, from telephones to toilet buzzers, and queue whiners, radio static. What a bloody noisy place the supermarket of the future is!
• Suppose we work out this detail. Let's carry on. So what is on sale on the shelf? It is the Planter's peanut butter. NO wait it's the goober's peanut butter. It's the peanut butter jelly. How would I know what gives a chime? Maybe I'll walk back and forth with the cart, figuring it all out.
• And suppose we get past that and find the right item that's on sale. Is it really a sale, or is it just a marketing gimmick?

Online shopping carts already do this!

[mekkab]

I get my codes from www.styleforfree.com www.webbuyingguide.com and www.currentcodes.com

so I get my discounts, the browser gives me ads and stuff, and I get to sit on my duff and do it from home.

They put the shopping cart in the browser, and I think i worked pretty well. But I putting the browser in the shopping cart? Why? Can't they track me well enough through my "Safeway Card"?
They offer discounts so I use it...

So lets see- cheaper tracking through discount cards. A computer that I can spill my starbucks on and break.

Gee, it doesn't sound cost effective.

Re:Online shopping carts already do this!

[mekkab]

Yeah, WORD UP on the cereal!
Safeway was selling 5 boxes of honey nut cheerios for $10. WHAT?!?! craziness.

I often think to myself (usually while clipping 3-4 weeks worth of coupons I've let pile up) "is the savings worth my time?" And then I end up saving $15 in coupons and $40 in total savings (not all the time... just sometimes)

I'm still not sure if its worth my time, but I guess its a habit now.

In Other News

[The Dobber]

Unemployed Linux Hippes hack new high tech shopping carts.

With the inclusion of GPS technology, carts are now able to inform thier current owners of vital information:

"Mad Dog 20/20 now on sale at Ben's Liquor, 20th and Main"

"Steam Grate opening available. Off street parking for cart. Cardboard box enclosure optional. Two blocks down, behind library. Ask for Crazy Tux."

Imagine...

[Joel Ironstone]

walking down a supermarket aisle and hearing a chime as you pass the peanut butter letting you know it's on salewalking down a supermarket aisle and hearing a chime as you pass the peanut butter letting you know it's on sale

Just imagine. What a wonderful world it would be! This is much better than that John Lennon song.

Self-locking carts: how do they work?

[dpbsmith]

The Shaw's supermarket in my town has recently introduced shopping carts which carry a placard warning that they will "stop abruptly" and the wheels will lock if you take them outside "the yellow line." I'm very curious, but haven't had the courage to try pushing one past the yellow line to find out exactly what happens.

One of the four wheels in encased in a plastic housing--very compact, only slightly larger than the other wheels. I imagine this contains the locking mechanism.

Does anyone happen to know what the mechanism is or how it works?

No wonder they call us "consumers".

[seanadams.com]

I just don't understand. There's all this bullshit in the grocery stores now to collect our personal information and track what we buy, and I don't hear ANYONE complaining.

I used to shop at Albertson's because they were the one store in my area which didn't use the friggin savings cards. They actually advertised this. Now everyone's using the cards, and they're marketing it on TV like it's a good thing for us.

Every time I go to the store, the clerk asks me if I have the card, and I politely say "no, can I use yours?" Sometimes they have a card sitting there, but more often than not, he'll interrogate me as to why I don't want a card. If forced to get a card, I'll either fill out phony information, or I'll check the box that says I don't want to give my info (if there is one). Then I conspicuously forget the card on the counter when I leave.

One time, the clerk was being especially pushy about getting me to sign up for the card. The customer behind me overhead our conversation and butted in "personally, I like the savings." Meanwhile, people in the aisles on either side of me obediently furnished their cards, one after another, from their overstuffed purses and massive keychains. What the hell is wrong with you people?

Re:No wonder they call us "consumers".

[n-baxley]

Here's an idea. Tell the clerk you left it at home and they'll leave you alone. No one is forcing you to get one of these cards. It's not like their going to change the price just for you, and they can already tell what items are popular. I think there are too many /.ers getting really bent out of shape over this. Where's the harm?!

Re:No wonder they call us "consumers".

[seanadams.com]

It doesn't aggregate the same way because of limitations on what they can do with records of your credit card number. If they keep a persistent record of credit card numbers and it gets cracked, there's a lot more liability involved for them.....

Ever heard of a hash?

Re:No wonder they call us "consumers".

[Skidge]

How about starting up a grocery card distribution service? Not sure exactly how it would work, but you could have a way of picking up a random card before entering the store and returning on the way out. The store would get some innaccurate information and you'd get your "discounts". Or, even better, just have one card shared between a hundred people. Then you'd spend enough in no time to get the free Thanksgiving turkey.

Re:No wonder they call us "consumers".

[Anne_Nonymous]

>> What the hell is wrong with you people?

"MMMmmmmmoooooooooooooooo!"

Re:No wonder they call us "consumers".

[Jon Abbott]

Here's an idea. Tell the clerk you left it at home and they'll leave you alone. No one is forcing you to get one of these cards. It's not like their going to change the price just for you, and they can already tell what items are popular. Where's the harm?!

The problem with this approach is that it sound too much like what Wesley and Robin did in the ST:TNG episode The Game. Everybody was addicted to "the game" except for Wesley and Robin. At one point they had to wear non-functional game headsets to fool others into thinking they were hooked.

Although nobody is forcing you to get a shopping card, there is social pressure when everybody around you makes you feel bad for not having one (the original poster mentions this). We should not be exerting social pressures on each other for something as cheesy as a shopping card.

Re:No wonder they call us "consumers".

[seanadams.com]

A hash doesn't HAVE to be shorter than the key. It can be equally unique.

Re:No wonder they call us "consumers".

[Tackhead]

> There was a big thing in the past about tracking purchases and selling the information to insurance companies (Shopper X bought 85 cartons of Marlboros and 50 cases of Heineken in the past week) so they could use it to raise ra[tes].

I dunno about the beer, but I think the 85 cartons of Marlboros would be of more interest to the IRS than the insurance company :)

Re:No wonder they call us "consumers".

[E-Rock]

Fill the form out like you do an on-line form, creatively. Now all they know is that the wallet carrying store card number 764839201 buys coke and steaks every time he comes in and only buys the chocolate milk when it's on sale.

Sweet!

[grub]

[rolling down the aisle]
*beep*
cart: "Your girlfriend needs tampons, see the specials on Tampax in aisle 5."
you: "She does? Already? It seems like yesterday..
cart: "Seeing as you're not getting laid tonight, check out the sale on golf balls in aisle 2."

This could be a great thing!

[Ethanol]

As a friend of mine suggested, if we port linux to run on these things, and work out some kind of wireless net access, shopping carts could become an even more versatile tool for homeless people than they already were.

please god make it stop

[savetz]

This sounds insufferably irritating. Grocery stores already have blinking LEDs to attract your attention to bright automatic coupon dispensers, giant ads plastered to the floor to direct you to Pepsi and Doritos, "Got Milk?" stickers on the bananas, ads plastered to the front of carts, video screens to infotain you while you wait in line, and ads on the receipt. Just let me shop in peace.

Re:Lets make a cart supper computer.

[The Dobber]

Hooking em all together would obviously give your the "Beowulf Cluster"

Thanks for the opportunity to actually work that into a post.

Checking your stocks...

[Jippy_]

Actually, it might help with your shopping decisions...

"My tech stocks are doing great! I need some chips."
[check stocks]
"Ohh! Gourmet Potato Crips!"
[check stocks]
"Hmm.. Maybe Ruffles instead"
[check stocks]
"Oh.. This no name brand looks good.. "
[check stocks]
"On second thought, that opened bag in the discount bin might be best..."
[check stocks]
"Dang... Anyone wanna buy a shopping cart?"

Re:Checking your stocks...

[Triv]

First, let me say that I truly appreciate the humor...but it got me thinking. :)

[deep breath]: I WANT TO BE ABLE TO THINK. I don't want information, ads or not, pumped at me 24/7. I don't want to be able to check my stocks or get the sports scores at the grocery store, I WANT TO BUY FOOD FOR DINNER AND GO HOME. I want to be able to live in my head for ten minutes while I pick up ground beef and hamburger helper. I don't want the CONVENIENCE, I don't want to SAVE TIME. Goddamnit, I can think for myself and I really don't care what coca-cola thinks I should be drinking with dinner tonight. There is a certain pleasure to cruising down a supermarket aisle, humming to myself and thinking about stuff. Shit like this is why I don't watch TV.

So in short: LEAVE ME ALONE!

[phew] ;)

Triv

Re:Checking your stocks...

[Jippy_]

but it got me thinking

Ackpth! I'm truly sorry. :)

Stuff stuff stuff.... I don't want to be able to check my stocks or get the sports scores at the grocery store, I WANT TO BUY FOOD FOR DINNER AND GO HOME... stuff stuff

I couldn't agree more. I hate shopping enough as it is.. I can't imagine stores being crowded with schmucks wandering around getting the latest basketball score every time they go to a new isle. [shudder]

nothing new

[night_flyer]

a local store did the same thing about 3 years ago, they broke within the first 6 months and were not replaced.

Re:Practical use!!!

[beebware]

Proper barcodes shouldn't allow you to do that. The barcode "number" should only relate to a database entry which then should give information such as price/discount details. Barcodes do not (or should not) contain any pricing information of any sort (see how barcodes work)

In your scenerio, you should need to alter the barcode to reflect another database entry corresponding to the discount you are after (and I'm sure/hope the store doesn't sequentially allocate discount codes) AND get it past any fail safe systems the EPOS has in place ($0.05-$10.00: reject) AND hit on a discount code which at least slightly reflects the product description (say the discount voucher was for a bottle of shampoo and you just happen to hit on a $30.00 off champagne voucher - then the till-operator should spot the difference). Oh: don't forget the checksum at the end of the barcode as well.

If you can get away with this as easily as you make out - well, that store is just about asking to be ripped off: so name it here so they can be Slashdotted in a physical sense (imagine loads of geeks hitting the same store chain with faked vouchers :) )

Will Wil Wheaton please stand up?

[Havokmon]

More than 70 percent of consumers decide what to buy when they're at the grocery shelf, according to Klever Marketing, the Salt Lake City-based company that's developing one of the most elaborate tech carts.

Maybe Wil can come up with a better name for the 'Klever Marketing' company. :)

Oops, pardon me, my bad, excuse me, coming through

[Oliver Wendell Jones]

At the Kroger grocery store nearest to my home, when they opened, they had LCD panels attached to the grocery carts with a roughly 11" diagonal screen.

There were some sort of sensors on the top of the panel (IR maybe?) that would receive information from transmitters suspended from the ceiling in each aisle.

The carts would let you know which items were on sale in that aisle, could provide a map of the store or direct you to specific items that you were searching for.

The big problem was that everyone who brought their kids shopping let their kids push the carts so they could play with the displays, and the kids wouldn't watch where they were going (some of the adults didn't, either!) and so they would constantly be running into each other, knocking into displays in the aisles, etc.

After about 3 months, they gave up and removed all the displays from the carts and I've been able to shop safely without worrying about someone ramming a cart into my achilles tendons every few minutes...

I personally don't miss them and I'm glad to see them gone.

Killer App: Shopping list display on cart:

[mekkab]

let me beam my shopping list from my PDA/cell phone to the cart. Its annoying running around a store with a Visor in 1 hand and the cart in the other.

Let me look at the list and check items off.
If you want to get crafty- tell me what aisles my products are in and tell me what sales you are having.
To make it even craftier- add that UPC scanner, and let me scan in my cupons- THEN have the cart tell me which one is cheaper.

All I react to are "sales" and the sales associated with the club card. If Diet Pepsi is on sale I'll buy that instead of diet coke, and vice versa. I have relatively little brand loyalty so gear your advertisements in a way that works.

Re:Killer App: Shopping list display on cart:

[dcavanaugh]

Beaming your shopping list from a PDA is a cool idea, but the stores really don't want you thinking too much about your list. They would prefer you spend the time walking past as much stuff as possible. The brands with the best margins are positioned at eye-level, with the hope of you going off-list and buying stuff impulsively.

I consistently spend less when I shop than when my wife does, even though she prepares the list either way. If it's not on the list, it's not in the cart. I also do the math, so that coupons for expensive brands are used only when the actual price beats the store brand.

The grocery store is filled with opportunities to make sub-optimal buying decisions -- two of my favorites:

1. "Decoy" items that look exactly like the items on sale, to be sold at high prices when the "real" sale items run out.
2. "Sales" where the price is just the regular price (except advertised prominently, so as to look like a bargain).
3. Scanner "errors" that consistently favor the store -- this happens ALOT, and the pattern of error is PREDICTABLE

You will never see the stores provide any technology that helps you evaluate prices. If they had their way, the only price you would get is a total for the entire cart!

Re:Killer App: Shopping list display on cart:

[mekkab]

I don't doubt it...

My argument was that I appreciate sales (Yes, I clip coupons and I do the math, but not on my pda. I gotta keep sharp somehow!) and typically the Club Card savings ends up being better than what I can do with a coupon (the best is when I use the two in conjunction!)- the end result is I usually buy what they are telling me to buy.

But I don't care if they give the illusion of choice or not.

I need an electronic shopping list. Give me that, and I'll spend all my money at your store; impulse buy or not.

Re:Just what we need

[Angry White Guy]

Shopping used to be so easy, go out - kill something - bring it home and eat it. Now we're faced with people yapping on phones, tight aisles, screaming kids and my favorite - those damn discount cards that I need one of for each store (I have none) so I get screwed on my discount. Now I get beeping carts and weather.

Go out and kill the people yapping on phones, bring them home and eat them. Not feeling too hungry, just take a screaming kid. The stigma that goes with being a cannibal will quickly dissipate when the regular shoppers can shop phone yapping, kid screamin', aisle blocking scum free and we just have to put up with the discount cards.

old.

[_ph1ux_]

They did this ten years ago at a grocery store I worked at in high school. that was is '93.

It didnt last very long at all...

We already covered this

[gabec]

Didn't we already cover this? Right after Minority Report came out (where they did this) I thought we had an article that said essentially "yes it's annoying as fsck and it's coming to a grocery store near you!"

Re:Lets make a cart supper computer.

[The Dobber]

In additon:

Linux Hippies resigned to employment as store box boys could now refer to themselves as Beowulf Cluster operators while out collecting the carts.

PDA Interface

[aridhol]

Here's an idea that may make it useful (IMHO)

Have an interface where you can plug your PDA. I generally write my shopping list on my Palm. Plug it into the cart, and let it tell me where everything is this week, and the price I can expect to pay for my list. I don't have to waste time looking up and down the aisles (I can never remember where anything is there), and I know approximately how much I'll be spending.

However, I don't see this happening. If I'm not browsing to find item X that I want, I won't see item Y that they're trying to push on me. And, as I said in a previous post, we won't see price-adding on them because the rising number will scare alot of customers.

Are they serious?

[Shadow Wrought]

A couple of points on this.

Point one is that in reading the preceeding comments it would appear to me that the majority of the posters find this idea to be somehwere between misguided at best, or downright dumb at worst.

Point two is that in my overall slashdotting experience (which is still limited granted) I have found that slashdotters care about technology and will support something merely because it involves technology.

The final point would be that due to the fact that slashdotters tend to embrace technology ( a generalization I know, but bear with me), and that their reaction to this technology is negative, I have a hard time believing that this is going to work as well as the marketers may believe.

Since its double coupon day, I'd say that this is my $0.04.

Re:Are they serious?

[krinsh]

Since its double coupon day, I'd say that this is my $0.04.

It is always double coupon day at my local Martin's.

Seriously, I suspect - and I'm making a HUGE generalization here about /.ers - that we embrace the tech itself - wi-fi/802.11b tablets connected to shopping carts are a cool idea. In fact; haven't there been tiny video screens or something like those "shifting picture" ads been attached to carts before?

I believe the negative reaction is the commericialism - the feeding of ads to you - and the data collection this sort of device may provide to 'corporate overlords'. There is a strong anti-capitalism trend (did I say that?) - and that is ONLY my opinion - and it manifests itself against anything that could remotely be seen as government or corporate meddling in privacy or personal data.

I can't fault anyone for that at all.

BUT -- I want coupons for my favorite foods and I elect to have these things provided to me - just like I tell the clerk in the electronics section that I'll come get them when I'm ready to ask questions; pester me before then and I'll leave. If I don't want to be bothered; I don't use the card or I don't click to get the free sample. If you can elect to use the device or not; then I see no problem with it - if you must use it to shop then I see the store adopting them closing down very quickly because even people that want such 'amenties' don't often want them shoved down their throats.

I hope I got all that right and no one sanctimoniously corrects me this time.

Re:Are they serious?

[krinsh]

OK capitalism should not be equated with advertising bombardments, rampant commercialization of every aspect of life; etc. Maybe anti-capitalism was the wrong word but I am often concerned that there is a deep-seated hatred in or near my generation for anything considered "Corporate" or "government". By all means; emphasize the individual but stop hammering down on everyone for trying to make money. [I didn't say steal I said earn].

Re:Are they serious?

[Shadow Wrought]

Wow. You pretty much said everything I was trying to say but couldn't quite get out there. Regardless of moderation, an excellent post.

I think the distinction is clearer to me now. I could sort of see it before, but it makes better sense. Thanks!

Re:Are they serious?

[krinsh]

This is one my marketing assistant buddy - not sales he will adamantly tell you, marketing. Our semi-weekly chat will have to go over this one.

Does anyone care to pipe in about the distrust bit starting with Watergate? I think it happened right around that time; but I think the government's bullet to the foot that was trust started a little before that - maybe a little post-WWII, maybe a little right before Watergate - but I don't have my whole US history timeline right in my head. Wasn't Vietnam right in that set of years? I think a lot of mistrust in our government has simmered since the Civil War; pointing to some of the reasons we had one in the first place.

I know someone out there has done some comparisons with ads from the 50s and 60s up to ads from today, and I think like you that the question of "is it because their jingle is cooler?" often enters into the equation.

BUT - I think it enters into the equation for the masses; those of us that run from cost-consicious to feature/price/durability conscious, etc. may not get deterred by said marketing assault and obviously many are turned off by it. Look at those who go out of their way to avoid buying anything they see advertised. However; this doesn't factor in that you shop for a new car differently than you shop for trash bags - unless you have some kind of thing about the way you close them or have trouble with breakage, etc. but I'm off on a tangent now.

Tracked customers hurt us all

[fleener]

I stopped shopping Safeway when they abandoned print coupons in favor of the trackable discounts that are only available via their ID card, er I mean "membership" card.

The benefit of the ID card is that, with testing, a store can raise its prices to just below the point where a majority of people stop buying. The bottom line is that if you use the card, you contribute to higher prices for everyone.

I remain capable of looking at the in-store sales tags that are placed next to, or on top of, the existing shelf price tags. I don't need or want a talking shopping cart, nor do I want everyone else's carts creating noise pollution.

Re:Tracked customers hurt us all

[dirvish]

I try not to shop at Safeway since they implemented those cards. I really don't like them tracking my shopping and I agree that they are not meant for convenience and will eventually only lead to higher prices. More info about the cards

There's some palm software out there like this...

[krinsh]

and I haven't heard it take off yet except from people that buy the regular software to make their grocery lists. *However* - if I could take my list on disk to the grocery store; or do the same with my coupons; maybe even scan everything myself as I put it into my cart; I think I'd like something like this.

If the whole thing were non-intrusive; regardless of the gimmicks - by this I mean ads didn't ring you or start flashing [and making your eyes and stomach hurt] then this might be a good thing. The trick to the cards is that even though they track your purchases and offer you a string of coupons based on competing products or your buy 3 get 1 free of the one you regularly buy; they are a one swipe thing. My wife already does a lot of the non basic foodstuff shopping - that is, for meal kits and such not produce/sugar/bread - entirely based on her coupons/SmartSource/ StartSampling.com, etc.; why not make it a little easier for her?

worthless

[elmegil]

This sounds about as useful as the java enabled gas pumps at BP/Amoco, that allegedly let you check weather, traffic, etc. while you're pumping gas. Sorry, but I get back into my car to listen to the radio for those things--it's more comfortable, and more reliable. There's nothing like seeing your gas pump spew a huge java stacktrace (the good news is that it doesn't affect the transaction of buying gas, it just blows up the browsing functions).

Re:OT: spelling

[Greedo]

Damn right! Otherwise, I might get "Cash and Carry" confused with "Sash and Sarry", which only sells Indian women's clothing.

Theift

[McFly69]

Oh great... not only we have welfare people stealing carts but now we will have computer /.ers snaging the carts in hope of modding the device. I can see it now..... ./ers attaching a HD and a network card to the unit. Then installing linux and over-clocking the fsck out of it to play Divx and Mp3's.


Why do I have the feeling, that I just created an idea for a new /. story? ;)

Wobbly Wheels

[9jack9]

I just want them to fix those wobbly wheels.

Why?

[derch]

Why do we need yet another stream of information vieing for our attention?

The last thing I want is to have a screen on the cart telling me the Dow closed 10 points up and Israel killed Palestinians while it's also trying to sell me Cheerios and Prego. If I want to know the news, I tune to NPR on my way to and from the grocery store. I also don't want to be shopping in a nice peaceful bliss, picking up some Krispy Kremes, splurging on good beer, to find out about the latest tragedy.

I dread WalMart getting these - all the red, white, and blue fake patriotism while they advertise the latest crap movie now available on DVD.

Let me make a correction...!

[krinsh]

The software is *like* this... but maybe not. The software is to let you make your shopping list but the grocer can take your shopping list and put it on his device and help you or ring up just what you have on the list, etc. At least that is what I last read. It is PalmBasket http://www.palmbasket.com IIRC.

Anyhow the point of this exercise is that even that hasn't taken off yet if I recall. There are too many people out there with little yellow notepads and Ziplocs or accordion coupon holders yet; and they won't "migrate" any easier than your users do when you give them automation.

But how long will they last?

[seafoodbuffet]

From an earlier article on Wifi Triangulation being used for this purpose, I recall my first impression being, "Yeah right, these things can't last". Seriously, the shopping carts at my local supermarket are already pretty beaten up and they were designed to be fairly robust. Add in some fragile electronics, an 802.11 antenna, and some batteries, I doubt this stuff will endure weather and rough treatment for very long. How can this be feasible for stores unless they plan to spend a fortune maintaining these things?

A better suggestion.

[jinx90277]

I don't need suggestions for peanut butter or laundry detergent -- I have those covered.

What I really need is a system that will suggest effective pick-up lines for that cute lady in the frozen food section, triggered by her buying preferences:

(if she's buying Lean Cuisine frozen lasagna) "Hi. You look great! Do you work out?"

You're wrong

[mookoz]

I've been using the Symbol Tech PSS system at my grocery store on a test basis.

http://www.symbol.com/products/consumer_systems/co nsumer_pss_ls.html

First of all, who actually does grocery shopping thinking "okay I'm only going to spend $20 today". If you need stuff, you need stuff. The scanner has made me more comfortable shopping, at least I know what the bill will be before I get to the checkout.

Secondly, if you DO go shopping with a fixed amount like that, I think the scanner is more useful knowing how close you are to your total, instead of being surprised at the checkout and then having to ask the cashier to take stuff back. Not a pleasant moment for either party.

Symbol's website claims that people spend *more* when they know what their accurate running total is, since they can get closer without running over. I think they might be closer to right than you are.

If you care about one, you'll care about the other

[Stoutlimb]

"Yes, I do care if the government wants to know, but not some store managers ."

Would you care if store managers knew, when soon there will be a law requiring them to pass this on to the government? It's about to happen, if it hasn't already. Soon corporate spying will be an intermediate step to government spying.

Privatization is more efficient, after all.

Bork!

Grocery shopping drives me insane

[Y-Crate]

I worked in a grocery store for a while (Kroger) and shopped there as well.

I cannot even begin to explain the intense, mind-numbing rage I felt after hearing the same, mind-numbing ads on the PA system every minute of every day for months on end.

"OMG, I'm BOB BUTLER! This is 'SmartSource Radio'!"

Gahhhhhhhh

There was this one ad for "Fresh California Asparagus" that would literally play nonstop for months. It took all the willlpower I had not to rip the entire PA system from the wall and throw it under the wheels of some Idiot Housewife's SUV, letting it's boundless stupidity be shattered by the same stupid customers that drove everyone insane.

I think if this, and other new methods of advertising in grocery stores takes hold there will be a mass-uprising of employees driven mad by their endless exposure to marketing BS.

Now, I shop at Aldi.

ZERO in-store advertising. The ultimate in no-frills shopping. They make you pay for the grocery bags and put a deposit down on a cart you take for crying out lout.

But, you do pay next to nothing for really, reallly good no-name brand food.

the killer feature

[cr@ckwhore]

The killer feature for this shopping cart (at least for me) would be a search function... the ability to search for a food item, and then show me where the item is located in the store.

Yeah, that's a nice idea but...

[bigmouth_strikes]

...howabout they figure out how to make it virtual ? We need online grocery shopping with deliveries so that we don't have to spend our time doing the neverending shopping ourselves.

There has got to be a way to arrange it so that the customers can share the delivery costs and still save money compared to driving their own vehicle to the supermarket.

I can't believe WebVan blew a billion dollars on this.

Re:Yeah, that's a nice idea but...

[dubiousmike]

In Massachusetts, Peapod does this (owned by Stop and Shop, I believe). We get a delivery to work once a week.

:P

Just what we need, more annoyances

[Flamesplash]

That's just what we need, more noise pollution in the grocery store, and more people not looking where they are going because they are checking their portfolio's

How about a map?

[n-baxley]

If I could type in what I'm looking for, and it would blink on the map both where I am and where the item is, I would buy my own personal one and bring it to the store with me. :)

Checking the Dow Jones Industrial Average?

[ChaosDiscord]

Great! "Hmmm, I wonder if I can afford the nice steaks or it's ground chuck tonight... oh my, my stocks just went through the floor, I guess it's ground chuck tonight."

No, wait, that's a stupid idea.

Some people seems to have forgotten that you first identify a problem, then you provide a solution. Providing a solution, then looking for a problem is usually doomed to failure. I fail to see a realistic case where getting stock quotes in the supermarket solves anyones problem.

Re:the real reason (fine - for YOU)

[gosand]

And profiling customers is a bad thing? Here's my take on it:
1) Advertising isn't going away, it's increasing, we are getting bombarded everywhere, now even in video game.
2) Why not give enough information to the sellers so that they can give me offers that I might actually like?

That is all fine and good, if you want it. The real crux of the issue is that the people who don't want it shouldn't have it forced on them. It should be 100% voluntary, but that won't happen. They don't want advertising to be voluntary. The way they do it now, at least where I shop, is they give you a store card with a barcode on it, which they scan at checkout. You get additional discounts on many items if you use it. While it is voluntary to have a card, the discounts are sufficient enough to warrant getting one. I usually save $5-10 every time I shop.

Voluntary targeted advertising - good.

Mandatory targeted advertising - bad.

And to answer your questions:

1) That doesn't make it right

2) They will always ask for more information than they really need. At least more than meets their stated objectives. Why do they need my address, phone number, etc simply to track which groceries I buy?

And if you don't want the government to know the info, but you don't care if a store manager knows, you should think about that a little more. Do you care if a librarian knows what books you check out? What about the FBI? When you give up that information, you lose control over who gets to see it.

Broken Shopping Carts

[Meridun]

Do we really think this has a chance in hell of working? No, I'm not talking about whether it's technically feasible or not, I'm referring to the fact that it's nigh impossible to find a shopping cart that has four functioning wheel as it stands.

Do you really think that there is a chance that ANY of these carts would be working after about 2 months, let alone the in-store network that they're supposed to interface with?

Re:Broken Shopping Carts

[Meridun]

Actually, I wasn't even referring to theft. I was pointing out that they will merely break, the way that every other damned shopping cart in the local grocery store seems to. Although I have to say that the auto-locking wheels sound like yet another way for them to screw up :)

not any more.

[Unknown Poltroon]

Now they ask you for you phone number, and read back to the database from that.

Re:not any more.

[n-baxley]

Huh, oh no! How will I ever get around this nefarious plan. Could I maybe give them another number, say my neighors, or the mayors? Or maybe say I'm from out of state and don't have their store there? Or maybe I could tell them to go to hell and sit on a hot coal because it's none of thier damn business. Honestly, it's like you have some sort of problem talking to others. Wait, you're on /. ranting about privacy? Oh, that explains it, carry on.

Re:Practical use!!!

[program21]

I used to work at a supermarket where it was all too easy to get away with something like that.
There were coupons codes (4 digit, the bar code was 00000 0xxxx) for things like a BOGO shrimp ($12.99), free 1st birthday cake ($18), and so on. Plus there were lots of little ones, nothing as significant as that though, but they were sequential. One could make a night out of trying groups of codes, and in fact a few of us did.
The funny part was that the system never checked to see if you actually had bought (rather, were buying) the item that the coupon was good for, and would take off the amount anyway.

After I left, the store replaced it's backend system as part of a routine upgrade, and there were stricter controls over that, and also ways to be alerted when something odd was going on, so while it worked then, it's much harder to get away with now, at least for employees. I'm sure that any of us, as customers, could work something like that at another store where the cashiers have no idea.

For those who don't know, BOGO = Buy One Get One, as in by one, get one free.

This is a bit dated...

[bjorky]

While I was studying in Germany ('99-'00) the local supermarket had shopping carts like this, with and LCD display at the front of the cart with an IR sensor on top... when you passed under hanging IR transmitters it would beep and tell you specials for what aisle you were in. Seemed a perfectly reasonable and simple solution..

LCDs weren't too fond of cold and wet weather, but since the carts were kept under cover in the parking lot, and since you had to put in a DM1,0 deposit in it (like the quarter keeper at american Aldi groceries) there was also little cart loss/misplacement.

Albertsons preferred tracking card.

[Camel Pilot]

My local albertsons just switched to the use of a card. I complained bitterly, leaveing the goods I was buying on the counter and walked out. I also sent an e-mail complaining to their corporate office at:

absfeedback@eds.com

I recommend you do also.

Also a little google searching found an organization dedicated to fighting the use of shopping cards at:

No Cards

Surpisingly there are other folks who do not like the use of cards

I think it is extremely arrogant of a business to require me to sign up and carry their tracking number in my pocket. If every vendor required that I would not have enough pockets to carry around their tracking numbers. Now if just had a national id card then ...

Re:Practical use!!!

[tomhudson]

The system they use is that, for some bar codes, the first digits identify it as a bottle refund, and the last 4 digits are the amount of the refund. Really brain-dead system - not even a checksum.

And, no, I'm not going to identify the stores involved. Hint: They're located in Canada.

Worse than fiction

[ebcdic]

I used to read Philip K Dick novels and think "this is absurd". Now it seems excessively optimistic.

What's going to happen....

[talks_to_birds]

...when they steam clean the shopping carts every week?

Ooo..

They don't steam clean the shopping carts where you shop?

And you put your food in that?

t_t_b

Paranoia Gets the Best of Us - Again...

[PhiloHmm]

It seems to me that this idea is a great idea if used for something aside from just telling you what is on sale and how your AAPL or MSFT stock is doing. Our paranoia shouldn't stand in the way of innovation so long as our information is protected and private. Consider the following benefits that your mom or wife could reap since God knows most of us don't do extensive grocery runs...

For example, as you significant other walks through the store and places things in the cart, it would be nice if the LCD showed how much the entire contents cost. This could very easily be done once RFIDs are used on all the items in the store (not a long way off either)

Another example would be for the loading a list into your cart from a PDA and having the cart "map" an efficient path through the store or tell you if something was out of stock or not on the shelf. If your cart saw that you wanted something that wasn't on the shelf, but was in stock an employee from the store could grab it and walk it up to you. It would be great if just once I could get back from the grocery store without forgetting something on the dang list.

Sure it could tell you what is on sale as you walk by an isle, saving plenty of employee time from updating labels (an estimated 80 hour per week task) and "enlightening" you with up to date information but this is something that isn't of deep or immediate value to shoppers.

In conclusion, we're all scared of what retailers know about us - but is the paranoia really worth it?

Cool!

[coopaq]

And you were wondering where you could get a free
computer to play your free mp3s!

Just throw the cart in trunk when you take your
groceries out.
Go home and use your 1337 skillz
and mod this puppy to play your music.

-J

I complained ot Albertson's recent about this

[Raleel]

and I would post the letter, but I cannot get it thorugh the lameness filter for no apparent reason.

In shorrt, the assigned me a case number and expressed all kinds of concern for my privacy and claimed vehemently that the card was not linked to price, and them promptly offered me special offers because I was a member. I noted the irony and went to Fred Meyer's, which does not appear to use a card.

Re:OT: spelling

[Rhubarb Crumble]

even more OT, but it has to be done... A Plan for the Improvement of English Spelling by Mark Twain For example, in Year 1 that useless letter "c" would be dropped to be replased either by "k" or "s", and likewise "x" would no longer be part of the alphabet. The only kase in which "c" would be retained would be the "ch" formation, which will be dealt with later. Year 2 might reform "w" spelling, so that "which" and "one" would take the same konsonant, wile Year 3 might well abolish "y" replasing it with "i" and Iear 4 might fiks the "g/j" anomali wonse and for all. Jenerally, then, the improvement would kontinue iear bai iear with Iear 5 doing awai with useless double konsonants, and Iears 6-12 or so modifaiing vowlz and the rimeining voist and unvoist konsonants. Bai Iear 15 or sou, it wud fainali bi posibl tu meik ius ov thi ridandant letez "c", "y" and "x" -- bai now jast a memori in the maindz ov ould doderez -- tu riplais "ch", "sh", and "th" rispektivli. Fainali, xen, aafte sam 20 iers ov orxogrefkl riform, wi wud hev a lojikl, kohirnt speling in ius xrewawt xe Ingliy-spiking werld.

Re:Pure Bullshit!!!!!!!

[tomhudson]

Imagine a supermarket cart that tells you which foxy babes in the market want to fuck! </quote>

Actually, THAT would be something I would be willing to put up with. And, come to think of it, this might just be possible. A scent sensor to determine when the chick is in esterus, ready to mate ...

So we'll end up w. more robots like Dot in Spaceballs, w. their virgin alarms.

oops

[Rhubarb Crumble]

, you bastard, 
!!!

bummer.

shelf-stocking for the digital age

[Triv]

Every wonder why products in a supermarket (say, tomato sauce) aren't in any real kind of order? Because manufacturers pay MORE to have the supermarkets place their products at eye-level. This is the same thing - tell you what's on sale and you're more likely to buy it. It's one of the major tenets of advertising - "if people can't see your product it won't sell," the corollary being "if people see product x more than product y, they'll be more likely to buy product x."

Personally, I'd find this experiment interesting from a tech perspective but I'd rather not use it. But then again I'm not in their core shopping demographic - I rarely spend more than 20 bucks at a time on groceries. :)

Triv

What happens when...

[talks_to_birds]

Gator gets ahold of this idea?

Popup hell, eh?

t_t_b

Imagine....

[orthogonal]

Imagine walking down a supermarket aisle and hearing a chime as you pass the peanut butter letting you know it's on sale.

Imagine me getting annoyed as hell at a shopping cart that beeps, squeals, shouts, and prehaps shows animated .gifs.

Imagine me walking out of the store without making a single purchase.

Imagine that I do not believe that my purpose in life is to be the recipient of advertising anytime my eyes are open.

Net life + real life = IRONY

[Winterblink]

Spammed, while buying Spam. What'll they think of next...

Re:Net life + real life = IRONY

[NineBall]

If it's anything like that, I may well decide to pay the people in marketing a visit, and I will have brought my neutron bomb.

That is the ONLY real

[Archfeld]

value they CAN offer. It is more about identifying wants, but you are weak willed enough to be manipulated into buying things you don't need or want, well then not much can be done for you...

On the other hand think of it as the company ACTUALLY working to try and find somthing you LIKE and MIGHT WANT, if not need. This harkens back to old school mercantilism, when a merchant had to make choices of what to offer to whom, and tailored their stock to customers tastes and desires based on their knowledge of the customer, because space, weight and supply was a huge problem.

hack value?

[ragnar]

I believe these things receive their message from some sort of wireless conduit. Imagine the hack value of broadcasting your own stuff to the LCD. This could be fun.

homeless

[flikx]

This could have a positive impact on the homeless population too. Imagine the dirty bum sauntering down the street, a chime sounding when he passes places to urinate in public, score some dope, sleep, pick up a hooker, or rob someone. The cart could even direct the direlect to prime places to spare for change and pan-handle.

I can't wait to see these things in Las Vegas.

Robot Cashiers...

[ronfar]

Yesterday, I had an unsettling experience. I was in Kash and Karry shopping, buying eggnog etc. (Only a few noggy weeks before the government takes it away again.) Finally, I got to the Kash register, only to note that even though the sign said it was open, there was nobody there. I figured out that it was a robot cashier. I took my eggnog, and ran it past the scanner. A cheery female voice anounced the price, and told me to put the item on the belt, which had started moving. I did the same thing with the rest of my purchases. The I pushed the red box on the touchscreen, selected cash and put my $20.00 in the slot. The machine, then cheerily dispensed my change "Don't forget to look below the scanner for bills." I bagged up my groceries and went on my merry way without having to speak to another living soul.

Now, I'm not sure why this was unsettling. Maybe because I used to do cashier work, or maybe because the store was so deserted at the time I went. I'm sure I'll get used to it in time. I guess I've experienced my very first taste of "Future Shock." (Which in itself was unsettling for someone who would normally identify themselves as belonging to the Paranoia Pro-Tech secret society.)

Re:They dont want you to know the total amout.

[aridhol]

When calculating procuct cost they add on their usual margin and then fudge the cents value to be strange numbers that confuse people. For example: .99, .23, .67, .53.

I know about that. Some people (like my mother-in-law) tend to round down all the time. See $5.99, think $5. See $39.99, think $30. Fun looking at expensive stuff with her (Look that computer only costs $1000. No, it costs $1999.99, so $2000).

Re:the real reason (fine - for YOU)

[gosand]

And of course the discounts aren't "real". They simply jack the prices and give you the old price if you sign up to be tracked.

No, not really (at least in this case). I am speaking of Jewel/Osco and Dominicks stores. A lot of times it is "buy one get one free" or a reasonable sale price on an item. You can compare the brands, and unless they jack up the price on everything in the store, you can clearly see where the bargains are. Sometimes it is a great sale on beef or chicken, where it is really a bargain to use their card.

I, Neo-Luddite

[limekiller4]

Over the years I've read a good number of neo-luddite vs. the technopop set. I never could identify with the luddites much less imagine I'd side with them. Well I'm starting to.

"There's the TV. It's all right there. Commercials. We are not productive anymore, they don't need us to make things anymore, it's all automated. What are we for then? We're consumers. Okay, buy a lot of stuff, you're a good citizen. But if you don't buy a lot of stuff, you know what? You're mentally ill! That's a fact! If you don't buy things...toilet paper, new cars, computerized blenders, electrically operated sexual devices... SCREWDRIVERS WITH MINIATURE BUILT-IN RADAR DEVICES, STEREO SYSTEMS WITH BRAIN IMPLANTED HEADPHONES, VOICE- ACTIVATED COMPUTERS, ..." - Jeffrey, 12 Monkeys

I'm sick of all this crap. I want to walk through my !@#$ing local grocery store, unmolested, and enjoy the process. Is this so hard to understand?

Blue Light Special

[docbrown42]

Pr0n on sale, Aisle 2!

But why?

[dk.r*nger]

Or picture reading the local five-day weather forecast, checking the Dow Jones industrial average and finding a new chicken and rice recipe

Ok, we get computers in refridgerators so we can order groceries directly from the fridge door Wow! But it works GREAT from my desktop.

Why would I get my fat ass up and go the the kitchen to order groceries? And go to the fireplace-computer to see the weather forecast to know if i have to fire it up.. and to the lawnmover-computer to see how much the grass grows.. and so and so on..

The point of having a computer on the frigde would be as a virtual note-holder for the family and possibly to get recipes of the web with, but only because of its location.

While I can see the point in getting recipes on the cart (maybe even syncing with my inhouse inventory server, to see what ingredients I need), a stock ticker or the weather is about the last thing I need when shopping. D*mn! The DOW is down 0.5, I better get lots of oatmeal? People for whom that matters, get that kind of info pushed to their cellphones.

Reminding shopping carts

[IPFreely]

I do most of the shopping on the way home, so I don't always have a good list with me.

I'd like to see something that I could use my grocery store ID tag (those annoying keyring tags that they ID and profile you with) to have it remind me of stuff I've purchased before as I walk by it. "Bing. Do you want to get more Parmasan Cheese?", along with a "Do not remind me about this one again" button and a "Thanks for reminding me" button to improve the profile. It could also have a way to feed it a list and have it direct me down the isles to my items.

A search for new items would be nice, but I can't think of a convenient way to enter the search criteria without a keyboard or touch screen. Maybe a kiosk with some kind of link to the carts (again, through the ID tag).

Don't like your supermarkets?

[Damek]

Then join a food co-op. If there isn't one in your area, get some friends together and start one.

There's no good reason anyone should be making a profit off your need for food to stay alive...

Nice Web Site!

[Lizard_King]

The KleverKart web site just gave my team's graphic designer a heart attack.

This has been done long ago.

[nurb432]

Perhaps 10 years ago, the local Kroger stores had flat panel displays on their bascarts around this area, that had store maps, a calculator, and ads on them.

And they quit working if you got too far from the store.. ( i think they would beep too, but its been a while.. memory fade )

Reason #12319

[SubtleNuance]

Reason #12319 To Shop at my Local Farmers Market:

The shopping-cart come consumer-awareness-experience-eXtreme-lifestyle.

please, say this is a joke.

Re:It's a trick

[swordboy]

It's a trick

Get an axe!

Re:Practical use!!!

[DunbarTheInept]

The number on the barcode in a retail store isn't a price - it's just an ID number indicating the type of item it is. The barcode doesn't say, "This item costs $3.75". The barcode says, "This is item number 105919541 in your database". When the cash register scans it, it looks up in the store's database and discovers that item number 105919541 is "6-pack of 20 fluid Oz bottles of Cherry Coke", and that the price for this item in this particular store is $3.75.

Altering the barcode would only confuse the cash register into thinking it was a different item, not into charging a different price for the same item.
That could still work if the checkout line person isn't really paying attention - you might be able to check out a 24-pack of soda as if it was a small pack of chewing gum. But if the person watches the screen at all, you could get caught easily.

I use cards whenever I can.

[trentfoley]

My kids' school has a deal where we buy cards with values of $10, $25, and $100 amounts to be used at a particular grocery store. I use them at the grocery until the balance goes to zero and then throw them away.

Why use them? The school gets money for me using the card instead of paying with cash.

Since the card is not linked to any of my personal information aside from my fingerprints being all over the thing, I'm not worried about privacy issues.

BOGOmips

[DunbarTheInept]

For those who don't know, BOGO = Buy One Get One, as in by one, get one free.

According to `cat /proc/cpuinfo`. my old computer has 799.54 By One, Get One deals on Mips. Twice the instructions per second for the same price.
Sweet.

Lie

[0xA]

So lie about it. I have "discount" cards from all over the place.

None of the information I provided to any of these companies even resembles reality.

Nothing new about this..

[linuxtelephony]

In 1992/1993 I used to regularly shop at a grocery store that had an LCD screen near the handle of the shopping cart. As you'd walk around different parts of the store, the screen would flash information about what was near your location. Plus, it was interactive, you could use it to locate what isle things were on, and see some recipes and other information too.

It was all fed by what I believe were infrared "nodes" mounted on the roof of the store every few feet. In playing with the cart, as you walked into the area covered by a specific node, the screen would flash something that was usually within about 2 to 4 feet of where you were standing, and looking up you'd see the node almost directly above you.

Took long enough...

[endquotedotcom]

I remember a Vons Pavillions in Orange county having a b&w LCD screen on it that told you where you were, what was on sale, and where to find what you were looking for back in like, 1995.

I only ever saw it at the one store, but I always thought it was really neat. Sort of spooky.

As far as privacy goes, it's not like there's anything personally identifying your path through the store with *you*, and even if there was, they already know everything you buy with your "club card" anyway. Just give them fake contact info when you sign up and it's all good.

ISN't THAT WHAT STORES ALREADY DO?

[cybercomm]

I mean shoppng carts ara just an evolutionary step. Stores have been doing this for DECADES! What do you think your VISA does; Or better yet your sears/safeway/fry's/[insert any store "discount card/club card" name here]... Every time Ma'n'Pa shop the clerk asks them if they want to become a member for free, so that they could get discounts, and once they sign up do you really think that it would be hard to program the computer to store their purchasing habbits in a database, so the store is happy, and the consumer is happy, because he SAVED 36 CENTS/GOT 2 AIR MILES!!!^^w000t for him^^ ? I mean the shopping carts are just a miniature evolutionary step, because now they can put that database to use (IE they can scream their "digital lungs" off telling people that they can save 36 cents if they purchase vaseline and blowup doll combo. So in a way you didn't really have privacy (unless you did not have a COSTCO/club card/store discount card.......
Though i honestly believe that hobos will find the way to mod the carts so that they could play tetris while collecting empry bottles!

Low tech method

[Servo]

I use one of those barcodes when I purchase my groceries. My grocery chain (Shope Rite) then sends me mailers that are targeted to what I buy. At the checkout, they also print coupons based on what I buy. Say, I buy a package of Gardenburger veggie burgers.. I usually get a coupon for my next trip on that same item.

Something else I've noticed, I was buying Silk soymilk for a long time, and then I switched to 8th Continent soymilk. Every time I buy 8th Continent, I get a coupon for Silk! So I buy the Silk the next week, no coupon, and then I go buy 8th again, and yep, coupon for Silk again.

There's no way in hell this'll work

[Metalhead01]

I used to work at a very busy grocery store when I was in high school, and I've seen first-hand the abuse shpooing carts go through. They're routinely kicked, smashed, knocked over, ran into walls, ran into people, broken and battered. Shopping carts at grocery stores don't last that long, either because the fucking idiotic customers beat them to shit or the homeless bums take them away.

Why would these super-nifty carts be immune to this? Why would they not suffer the same fate? It's damn near impossible to keep people from being stupid and smashing into stuff, or taking the carts home with them.

Another thing to consider is the fact that these are going to be very expensive. Most grocery stores aren't raking in the cash, and if they have to but a few thousand carts every few weeks to replace stolen or damaged ones, they're either going to go belly-up or forget about the whole thing.

Re: Isn't that what store already do?

[ChaosDiscord]

Woah, relax. Yes, stores and businesses already do try to track you with discount cards, credit card numbers, checking account numbers, rebate requests, and the ilk. I object to those as well. I strongly support laws that restrict tracking people by social security number, credit card number, checking account number, and other tricks. Myself, I try to live on cash. I find it useful for crude budgeting (hmmm, that last withdrawal of $100 didn't last as long as it should, time to cut back a bit), and makes me harder to track. I refuse discount cards and rebates.

Re:Practical use!!!

[tomhudson]

Not always. In this case, the first few digits identify the item as a rebate coupon, with the last 4 digits being the amount. I've programmed PLUs on SKUs for POS systems, so I know that there is the possibility on most systems to do calculations, etc, based on all sorts of variables - time of day, qty, etc.

SAFEWAY!!

[grahamsz]

Have offered this for years! I know i was still in high school when it started so it was probably around 1996.

Certainly in the US safeway are well backward but their scottish stores are a bit more useful.

You just pick up a handscanner when you go in, place it back when you leave, it prints out a receipt with a barcode and you pay that amount.

Of course sometimes they make the cashiers rescan you and if you are unreliable at doing your own scanning then this happens everytime... unfortunately my safeway card is also used by my mother, who wonderful as she is, cant work new fangled electronics to save herself :)

Re:SAFEWAY!!

[aridhol]

Damn. Here in Canada, they can't even make their carts work properly.

Self locking wheels! - high tech

[Doppler00]

Yes, but they are concerned with people steeling them. How about those carts where the wheels have locking boots on them? They'll lock the wheels if you try to go to far from the grocery store by using an electronic sensor. I guess too many homeless people were stealing the carts so they implemented this technology.

Someone I know, not knowing about this amazing technology, parked quite aways from the shopping center. Upon trying to get to their car, the wheel locked and they couldn't move the cart. They ended up draging the cart whith the locked wheel the rest of the way. Not fun.

The issue is larger than privacy...

[RobertB-DC]

The issue is larger than individual privacy, and lying about your information doesn't really help.

As detailed at the CASPIAN (Consumers Against Supermarket Privacy Invasion And Numbering) site, supermarkets don't care who you are... they just want to know about your buying patterns.

What's wrong with that?

What's wrong is that 75% of a store's profits come from the top 30% of customers (according to this essay). In the profit-driven corporate world, there is no reason to serve the lower 70%, if higher profits can be made off those 30%.

So caviar and fresh salmon get big "card discounts"... and beans, rice, and tortillas get marked up to make up the difference. In effect, your poorest customers (the ones for whom beans + rice + tortillas = dinner) actually subsidize the purchases of those who can afford luxury foods.

But you're a filthy-rich dotcommer, why should you care? Alright, Mr. Cynical, get this: a lot of that beans and rice are being paid for by food stamps. Food stamps come from tax dollars. Tax dollars come from... YOU!

The grocery stores are double-dipping -- no, triple-dipping -- at the expense of poor customers, middle-class customers, and taxpayers.

That's why, when possible *, we should Just Say No!

* Embarassing full disclosure: I have a Kroger card. They had lower markups and a better privacy policy than their competitors, and are often the only nearby store open when the kids want milk with their cerial. Flames welcome, please address to /dev/null.

Won't last ong....

[eniacpx]

If there a touchscreen LCD display and builtin wireless....hmmm can you say free tablet PC to anyone that has a screwdriver?

Wow!

[Ace905]

This sounds absolutely horrible! I can't count the number of times I've wanted a chicken & rice recipe recited to me while shopping, or wondered if one price was lower than another even though I was looking right at the prices.

Oh wait, yes I can - zero.

Hmm... strange it never caught on even though it's an old idea.