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PayPal Founder Wants To Launch Satellites
XNormal writes "Elon Musk, founder of Zip2 and PayPal is planning to build a launcher for small satellites. Much of his personal fortune come from the IPO of PayPal and subsequent sale to eBay. The amount of money he plans to spend on this project is not much more than Denis Tito spent on his space station visit. The difference is that this venture actually tries to do something productive. Elon is also behind the Life to Mars mission."
Maybe this guy and Jon Carmack should get together. Not only can they afford it but i bet they could pull it off.
unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
Excuse me? I thought that Tito purchased an orbital holiday for ~ $20 million.
Now, I can imagine how much I'd enjoy an orbital holiday. It'd be a lot of fun: an exciting new sensation that I'd be unlikely (in the present climate) to experience ever again. I imagine Tito felt the same.
So, how was this purchase not productive? Tito gained (an orbital holiday), the Russians gained (money for the space project). I suspect your criticism of it as being unproductive is in part due to the fact that it was unashamedly self-interested (good on him for it!), and in part because you couldn't afford it yourself.
The life to mars site is pretty cool too. I think the best idea is the comm sat on mars. If there were soem dedicated communications satalites up there maybe some of the problems with failed missions could be avoided.
unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
It always seemed like PayPal was founded by some kind of space cadet. We shoulda seen this coming.
Elon is also behind the Life to Mars mission.
.sig, dont smoke
rainman
i thought janet reno sent him back to cuba or something....
no
Didn't Tito's money go into the russian space program? Just because he had more fun than most of us doesn't necessarily mean his actions were completely unproductive. $$ can = productivity (as well as the obligitory $= PROFIT!!!)
ôó
Maybe he should put some of that vast fortune into preventing paypal from sucking.
You too can invest in this state of the art method of sending stuff into space. But be forwarned, just because rocket-pal sends things into space they arent an actualy aero-space firm, so ifyou lose all your investment/cargo with them its not insured!
Fly rocket-pal today!
He won't have to get approval for his space mission because it's not a space flight, it's an interstratum transport venture, which isn't regulated like space flights are
:)
(cf: PayPal not being a bank and thus have responsibilities to the FED and FDIC
By comparison, the Russian Proton rocket is down at $2.6K/kg.
But if he really wanted to do something impressive he would design a 2 stage fully reusable rocket. That could probably launch for $0.5K/kg to $1K/kg.
-WolfWithoutAClause
"Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"They will take your satellite, hold onto it for a few months, and ignore you if you ask about the status. When you do finally get a hold of someone, they will remind you that per the terms of the service, your satellite was %100 at risk. At that point they will inform you that they have flagged your satellite for possible abuse, and already reviewed your case and decided to keep your satellite. If you wish to contest this you will have to go into binding satellite arbitration. http://www.paypalsucks.com/news.shtml
PayPal horror stories: Boycott-PalPal.com
Google search of "beware of paypal": Beware
PayPal Warning
Petition to shut down PayPal My skin is crawling - really.
... non-multi-millionaires that seem to know better how to spend the millions that other people have.
He is not better than everyone else, but certainly is richer... and though Paypal is fairly evil, he is sorta entitled to spend his money the way he likes...
I am pretty sure that if one day you have too many millions to count you might take a different perspective on the space travel...
If this guy is really into space, and has a lot of money, what do you think the chances are we could talk him into buying an inexpensive $800,000 fan-financed episode of Farscape? Wishful thinking? Anyone know his address? :)
These rich folks and their diversions put my hobbies to shame..... They put even my hobby aspirations to shame!
It is a front for the construction of his EVIL Space Fortress! When the lasers are raining hot, burning death upon us all, YOU will be sorry you used Paypal to buy that anime video!
More power to ya!
If you go to the warehouse grocery store, you pay less than you do at 7-11. And if you use a big vehicle, you get a better price per kg. There are economies of scale.
But what if what you're lofting doesn't weight 40x as much? Wouldn't it be nice to get the good price anyway? Wouldn't it be nice to be able to go to 7-11 and the a single can of soda for the same price you pay for a can when you buy a case at the warehouse store?
This guy is no dummy, and I'm sure he's identified a market.
Heh, so thats where all that "lost" PayPal money went.
I like projects like this. Since NASA most certainly isn't doing a very good job (I don't blame NASA, I blame politics), it's great to see rogue projects like these coming along, giving us some hope of further exploration of space.
If he's got the money and the interest, I'm all for it.
The Political Programmer
With all of these horror stories, I am going to open myself up to moderation as flamebait and share some tips with you.
I have routinely had over $500 in my PayPal account, at times bordering on $1000. For me, I use it as a place to stash my "mid-term savings" pool. It's easy enough to get the money out if I need it using the MasterCard-branded debit card; but it's not cash in my wallet that I'll shove into a soda machine or cafeteria line at lunch.
I also do quite a bit of trading on eBay and have even dealt in the more "dangerous" auction fields like playerauctions.com.
For eBay trades, send the thing with some proof that you sent it. USPS Delivery Confirmation if you're cheap or don't care about things like tracking; USPS Registered if you're hung up on USPS. UPS is decent; they have tracking. FedEx has a very good security policy...you can specify to leave the package with no signature, try to get it signed but leave it if waived, or require a personal signature -- no waivers accepted. Of course that costs extra, but if you are worried about being defrauded by your buyer, that's not too much extra to ask.
For PlayerAuctions, my Thawte (www.thawte.com) S/MIME certificate, for signing and authenticating e-mails that I send, is sufficient. A signed message with the account key(s) contained inside it.
It's impossible to forge the digital signature saying I sent the thing; just like it's impossible to convince the FedEx man to leave the package without a signature, when it says "signature required -- no waiver accepted"
Common sense states these things. Online trading is fundamentally about trust. Cover yourself in your auctions -- Seller reserves the right to end the deal at any time; even after payment has been remitted (If payment has been remitted, it will be returned to you.) A bid contract is a legally binding agreement; if they don't like your terms, they don't have to buy it from you.
If you cover your back with these sorts of things, you're virtually guarenteed to have a good reputation in the online community. On the off chance someone still tries to fraud you, you have hard proof that they are lying. And guess what? That's a crime.
The Federal Government and the FTC don't look too kindly on interstate commerce fraud and mail fraud.
"But does he have staying power?" asks NASA official.
Good question... is that a mutant power, like telekinesis?
"STAND BACK, Batman, he has STAYING POWER!".
-- Terry
This is slightly offtopic (it does have to do with the encroaching commercial exploitation of space), but doesn't it seem to be time for a space lottery?
It only costs $20 million to send someone into space.. (with promotion, taxes and stuff, I bet it would cost about $30 million to run a lottery that would do this) lots of lotteries these days run into the hundreds of millions of dollars worth of prize money.. and I think they'd get even more people than usual going for a trip into space. I'm assuming most geeks are too mathematically inclined to throw money away (buy lottery tickets).. but even I would take the chance for an opportunity to go into space.
I'm positive the Russians would love it. (NASA wouldn't be too keen on the idea). The only potential pitfall would be if the person didn't meet the health requirements.. for which case you could easily just give the person the money. That and a bunch of safety disclaimers, and they'd be set.
If it costs $20 million to launch 420kg into space, it is all well and good that someone can do it for $10 million. But I don't weigh 420kg.. I weigh 85kg, that's just over 1/5th, so shouldn't it cost $4 million to shoot my ass into low earth orbit? $16 million is a little expensive for a room on a space station don't ya think? How much does it cost to make a space station anyways? That's what our Space X friends should be doing, offer $5 million trips to LEO space stations, undercut the russians and herald in a new era of space tourism (for rich bastards).
When we have that, then we'll need reusable vehicles (i.e., next generation X-Prize winners) but until then there's no-where to go! The X-Prize will be won by 2005, and we'll be able to pay a small fortune to "touch" space (but not LEO) in a reusable vehicle, will we have to wait until 2010 to get a reusable LEO vehicle for space tourism? By then, will there be anywhere to go?
It just doesn't add up. My kingdom for a business plan.
How we know is more important than what we know.
For the sake of science and possibly other life forms, let's hope that that kind ecological terrorism won't be tolerated by governments. Bringing rabbits to Australia was bad enough.
He can send the order to randomly freeze another 200 accounts! Let the interest roll!
Excuse me, I don't mean to impose, but I am the ocean
I was joking. But given PayPal's view about it's own position, I was insinuating that he might try a similar thing to this to avoid government regulation, just as paypal has :)
Mr. Musk is now going to enter into the commercial sattelite launch industry, an industry whose barriers to entry are (ahem) astronimical, and compete with far cheaper Russian services. Since Mr. Musk is not utilizing any new technological innovation, he will presumably rely purely on his business know-how to make his sattelite company as efficient as PayPal...
Oh, the things a measly 1.5 billion and dollars will do to a man's ego...
Mind you falling is just a form of flying where the ground gets in your way.
Much of his personal fortune come from the IPO of PayPal and subsequent sale to eBay.
Let's not forget all the money he took from his customers....
The Right Reverend K. Reid Wightman,
Nobody's flown solo into space since the Mercury program. Could this make it feasible?
The Falcon LV will be able to orbit 473 kg, or a little over half a ton. The Mercury spacecraft, built with 1960 materials and technology, weighed about two tons. What would it weigh today, with judicious use of kevlar, Demron and other high-tech lightweight materials? Seems to me that it might be feasible to loft a passenger in his own spacecraft for $20 million, and let him orbit for as long as his supplies (and psyche) allow.
And here's one more thought, useless as it might seem--how about using it as a one-man ground-to-ISS transfer vehicle? You could even send it up unmanned to provide for evacuating a single injured or ill crewmember from the station.
Cool. Let him blow through the money that, by all accounts (heh, heh) he got none too ethically in the first place, and in the process provide more jobs for techies. At the very least, this will encourage more kids to study space science and increase the odds of somebody else using a job there to get the scratch to write up their own, more productive approach.
I'll bet that ten years from now we'll be hearing of seriously radical space ventures founded by the veterans of all the low-cost-launcher/X Prize companies that will have tanked but paid the bills and created the relationships that will get the second gen. companies moving. Don't think of SpaceX as a sleazy guy pushing into an oversaturated market. Think of it as space science fellowships.
Rustin
Data is the lever, rigor the fulcrum, brains the force that drives it all.
Good idea, bad government.
This post expresses my opinion, not that of my employer. And yes, IAAL.
Barriers to entry aren't as bad as you might think, in terms of hardware anyway. it's all decades-old engineering now. Stop me before I say it isn't rocket science...
Where a startup is going to have problems is with getting launch insurance. The companies that insure satellites have been burned badly. They're probably going to want a statistically significant flight record before they write coverage for birds sent up on a new launcher. So the first N launches have to be from customers who don't care if they suffer a total loss with no insurance.
He was a pioneer. His space trip was probably one of the most useful space experiments the ISS will ever do in its lifespan. It was also successful.
Remember, NASA were asses about the whole thing initially. After the Russians and Tito proved them wrong, NASA changed their tune. Now space tourism is at least being given consideration.
USD20 million is nothing, NASA and others have wasted that and more on far less useful stuff.
The magnetic launcher is sort of doable but not on a scale large enough to send any decent sized payload into orbit unfortunately. NASA's Marshal Space Flight Center was doing some research on linear accelerators but I think a lot of their funding has been cut under the O'Keefe regime. Getting trains and scale models working on accelerators is one thing but an orbital payload is quite another. I think if someone were to invest in research most of their funding would end up doing to R&D rather than actually getting payloads into space. For a satellite launching startup it would likely be much better to get a bird in the sky and get your investment back plus a little profit to reinvest rather than blowing the whole kit and kaboodle on research and then be forced to sell out to someone that is just going to use your patents and research materials to make themselves money.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
Paypalwarning.com is a web site that appears to be on the same servers as http://www.jacobylawyers.com and and appears to be administered by the
same person. Jacoby and Meyers are the lawyers pursuing the class action suit against Paypal.
I question the integrity of any site sponsored by a bunch of lawyers looking for a big payoff.
The problem with the site is that it is so far North that it is much more difficult to transfer into an equatorial orbit and the rockets get much less of a kick from the Earth's spin. So its possible that some rockets such as Soyuz and Proton will have to be retired.
The Russians have been working on a big new booster called Angara which should be fired for the first time next year. It's based on the existing successful Zenit rocket and has engines very similar to those built by the Russians for the new Atlas V.
I have no idea what is planned for the manned missions should the Russians abandon Baikonur.
Best wishes,
Mike.
After watching vapor about terraforming Mars for 5 years I realized it would be more productive to terraform Earth. There are millions of square miles of useless desert which would be far easier to convert to forests and lakes than terraforming Mars. Once we converted all the Earth to useful land we could think about terraforming Mars and might be better equipped.
Musk came to the university I work at and gave a talk about Space X. They definitely have a lot of ambition, vision, and ideas.
However, they might be a tad light in pragmatism. They only have 1 guy writing the avionics/flight code. They expect to only have something like 25 full time employees. They are really riding the edge of what is possible.
They do have a lot of interesting ideas. Outsource as much as possible. Instead of having the tanks manufactured by the normal space vehicle companies they bid it out to companies that make large tanks for other things. That was a big cost savings. They are using LOX and RP1. Much easier to deal with than LOX and LH2. Oddly enogh this is what the Atlas V vehicle is using for propellants as well. All this outsourcing and such means that Space X will be primarily and assembly company. It reminds me a little bit of auto makers. Ford and such do the design work, have suppliers make most of the parts, and then assemble the vehicle themselves. Quality control should be a nightmare of a job.
It was fun to put a multi-millionaire on the spot but it was more fun hearing about someone that is willing to try something bold and daring regarding space.
Like I wrote above, these folks have a very big task ahead of them. They also have a lot of drive, too. Personally, I hope they succeeded. If nothing else it will be a big kick in the butt to NASA and the other launch vehicle companies around the world.
2) Space X assembles everything
Since a rocket launcher is obviously a legitimate personal armament, and this is simple a non-portable rocket launcher... He'll probably find quite a market among the survivalist militias!
Energy: time to change the picture.
Considering that the service no longer belongs to him, but rather to eBay, this guy can't be held responsible for it sucking. He also can't be expected to improve upon a product that he no longer controls. The opinion that it sucked before the sale is irrelevant.
If it sucks, don't use it. Most of the people I know who have used PayPal don't have problems with it. If PayPal isn't protecting you from fraud, you should focus on your credit card company. You aren't any more responsible for transactions you can't complete any more than the ones you don't make.
I remember a Slashdot article sometime ago that Indian space research organisation (ISRO) send satellites for a price less than the russian agency ...
I think it will be very difficult for this guy to beat the indian price :)
Wonder what would happen if a major corporation.. say Microsoft wanted to launch a machine to the moon that would carve a HUGE M$ logo into it. hehe Yes I know that wouldn't be very feasible, or possible, but it sure makes for good pondering. Could you imagine how much advertising they would have then?
So other than your preference for a seat in the oxygen-breathers section, and the amount of luggage you're planning to carry (unlike most US airlines, you're probably allowed to bring oxygen tanks on board with you...) how much gravity are you willing to put up with? Compare that with the G-forces that a hunk of satellite equipment can put up with if it's padded adequately.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
It may have been free on Monday, but today it's in the Subscribers-only section of the web site....
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks