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All schools In Denmark switching to Linux

Someone who can read Danish writes "According to this story (in Danish) Denmark has taken the first steps to start using Linux and Staroffice in all schools (1.1 million students). Sun has agreed to provide Staroffice for free, or on a CD-ROM for 10 Danish crowns ($1.5)."

116 of 395 comments (clear)

  1. 10 Danish Crowns?!! by teamhasnoi · · Score: 4, Funny

    That's absurd! There aren't even that many kings in Denmark!

  2. anyone here speak danish by wildchild978 · · Score: 2, Funny

    I can only speak COBOL, and that badly. I don't even know what danish is. Is it like VB?

    1. Re:anyone here speak danish by Jucius+Maximus · · Score: 4, Funny
      "I can only speak COBOL, and that badly. I don't even know what danish is. Is it like VB?"

      DANISH is like an advanced version PSTRY but you get a much better tase of it you compile it on APPLE or some other similarly fruity platform. It is best learned in the morning with a healthy side of JAVA.

    2. Re:anyone here speak danish by evilviper · · Score: 2

      I speak Danish... and Doughnut... and Bearclaw... and....

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    3. Re:anyone here speak danish by evilviper · · Score: 2

      Now THAT is funny. You completely botched a goatse link!

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  3. Universities in the US considering it as well by blacklambda · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I work as a Network Engineer in a state-run university in Pennsylvania. The new Microsoft lisence terms (a.k.a. software rental)are beginning to cause major worry in a 2500-plus seat environment where old versions running on ancient comptuers allow us to get by. The concept of moving to a StarOffice or other productivity suit us now (an a year ago unthinkable) being seriously considered.

    --
    Ryan Dorman, CCNA Network Communications Specialist Millersville Univesrity
    1. Re:Universities in the US considering it as well by EvanED · · Score: 2

      Just out of curiosity, are you speaking of PSU or its branch campuses, or the actual commonwealth colleges?

    2. Re:Universities in the US considering it as well by Chordonblue · · Score: 5, Interesting

      We might not be a university, but our school here in PA did it. We converted to Staroffice 6.0 for the teachers and lab computers. We also distribute Openoffice.org to all of the students. This is an important point, because as MS Office file formats become more and more fragmented (just wait until Office 11!), the need to unify on a single, usable format (like XML) becomes critical. While saving money on licenses is a bonus, the real savings for us is in the heartache of incompatible formats.

      Anyone here care to guess how many different incompatible programs our students have on their computers? Not counting the various (and sometimes) incompatible variations on MS Office, you also have the abortion known as MS Works. Then there's Lotus, WordPerfect... Hell, even NOTEPAD! And don't get me started about the different versions used from country to country. We have students who attend here from all over the world.

      We've been using Open/Staroffice now for well over a year and are not looking back anytime soon. There were some minor initial glitches, but this was due to our using the Openoffice.org betas. Star PP1 / Open 1.0.1 have been rock solid for us.

      Chuck Hunnefield
      Technology Coordinator
      Linden Hall School for Girls

      "They bought their tickets... They knew what they were getting into..."

      --
      "...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
    3. Re:Universities in the US considering it as well by axxackall · · Score: 2
      the need to unify on a single, usable format (like XML) becomes critical

      The only problem I see with SO/OO XML is that it's completely unindented and there is no XSL to convert it to anything readable. Ive made few hacks by myself, but it would be nice if Sun will supply some XSL to convert to/from another XML formats.

      --

      Less is more !
    4. Re:Universities in the US considering it as well by EvanED · · Score: 2

      Same here, only at Penn State we got Wi XP, Offixe XP, Visual Studio .NET, Frontpage, and a number of other things. Since I use stuff like VS.NS that most people don't, I figure they are partly subsidizing my use of Visual Studio. (Though that deal has since run out; we not just get discounts, though bigger discounts than the normal education price.)

  4. Rotten by Gyan · · Score: 5, Funny

    Time for Gates to say "there's something rotten in Denmark" and get on the plane.

    1. Re:Rotten by benjamindees · · Score: 2

      Maybe he'll send his first officer instead.

      --
      "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
    2. Re:Rotten by JediTrainer · · Score: 3, Funny
      --

      You can accomplish anything you set your mind to. The impossible just takes a little longer.
    3. Re:Rotten by Malfourmed · · Score: 2, Funny
      Time for Gates to say "there's something rotten in Denmark" and get on the plane.
      Yes... VB or not VB, that is the question.
    4. Re:Rotten by amigaiscomming · · Score: 2, Informative

      Microsoft made an offer where the Schools and teachers could get MS Office for "free".

      Sun made the offer, where Schools, teachers and Students can get StarOffice for free :O)

      In 1.5 years I'm going to be a teacher in Denmark and I like StarOffice :O)
      I use OpenOffice.org right now :O)

      Thanks Ulla Tørnæs :O)

    5. Re:Rotten by Gyan · · Score: 2, Funny

      Actually Gates would give the option of "VB or .NET VB"

    6. Re:Rotten by iapetus · · Score: 5, Funny

      Ballmer: [Reading] In the most high and palmy United States,
      A little ere the mightiest Apple fell,
      No PC stood OSless, and the servers all
      Did crash and gibber in the server rooms.
      And even the like precurse of fierce events,
      As harbingers preceding still the fates
      2000 and XP together demonstrate
      Unto our climature and countrymen.
      [Handing script to Marcellus] Slashdot is desperate with imagination.

      Gates: Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

      Ballmer: Heaven will direct it.

      Gates: Nay, let's buy it out.

      Ballmer: My lord, my lord!

      Gates: Illo, ho, ho, my lord!

      LINUS ENTERS

      Linus: Hillo, ho, ho, boy! Come, bird, come.

      Gates: How is't, my noble lord?

      Ballmer: What news, my lord?

      Linus: O, wonderful!

      Ballmer: Good my lord, tell it.

      Linus: No, you will embrace and extend it.

      Ballmer: Not I, my lord, by heaven!

      Gates: Nor I, my lord.

      Linus: How say you then? Would Linux give men source code?
      But you'll be secret?

      Both: Ay, by heaven, my lord.

      Linus: There's neer a student dwelling in all Denmark
      But he runs StarOffice.

      Ballmer: There needs no ghost, my lord, come from the grave
      To tell us this.

      Linus: Why, right! You are in the right!
      And so, without more circumstance at all,
      I hold it fit that we shake hands and part;
      You, as your business and desires shall point you;
      As every man has business and desire.
      And for my own poor part, look you, I'll go code.

      --
      ++ Say to Elrond "Hello.".
      Elrond says "No.". Elrond gives you some lunch.
    7. Re:Rotten by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 2
      LINUS ENTERS
      Join me, my son, and together we will rule the Universe!
  5. yeah, but how long are they gonna stay with it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    how come these articles never seem to have any follow-up? do they stay with linux or give up after a year?

    1. Re:yeah, but how long are they gonna stay with it? by Chordonblue · · Score: 2, Insightful

      He's got a point. Remember that not-well-planned attempt to convert Mexico schools to Linux?

      Yes, let's put RH w/KDE on 486's... Didn't work due to poor planning. I wonder of the over-exuberance of Penguinistas is to blame for that one.

      --
      "...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
  6. Microsoft may have a strong foothold in the US... by intermodal · · Score: 3, Insightful

    but as the US has consistently proved in the past decade and still not caught on to is that they're not the center of the universe. The loss of Microsoft's power will not be starting in the States, but rather in the countries with the good of the nation rather than the economy on their minds. UNIX has been a staple of Computer Science since the 70s (pre-70s i'd be hard pressed to consider anything on the frontier known as computers as a staple), and IMHO has a good number of decades left in it.

    --
    In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
  7. Editors on crack... by Iamthefallen · · Score: 5, Informative

    The article speaks mostly about Sun's StarOffice and how students will be offered it, not that every school will switch to Linux...

    I'll leave translation to someone who has stronger danish skills than me though.

    --
    Wax-Museum Fire Results In Hundreds Of New Danny DeVito Statues
    1. Re:Editors on crack... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Translation:

      Denmarks 1,1 million school students and teachers can now turn their backs to Microsoft Corp. At least when it comes to officeprograms.

      An agreement between Sun Microsystems and UNI-C implies that the students and teachers at all levels can download StarOffice 6.0 for free and install it at their homecomputers at no cost. Alternativily they can buy a cd-rom at the pure cost which is set to 10 danish crowns (1,5$ or so). The schools can buy StarOffice in bulk (50 cd's).

      The agreement has been made with UNI-C according to the rules of guidance that the minister of teaching Ulla Tørnæs (liberal party) published the 30. october. These rules describe who schools and universities must act when offered free office-programs. Among the demands are, that such gifts are truely free to the state and that UNI-C, the danish IT-center for research and education must distribute the licenses.

      UNI-C get their expenses covered by the 10 crowns that the distribution of the cd's earn them. Sun provides a server with StarOffice and Linux so that students and teachers can download these programs for free.

      UNI-C is here to help the educationenviroment in Denmark, so we are of coure happy to be able to provide such an initiative from Sun, the CEO of UNI-C Dorte Olesen states.

      The most common office-system in the world is Microsoft Office which does not exist in a version that can be run on a Linux OS.

      Due to the dominance of Microsoft within office-programs as well as OS more and more public authorities are working to create alternatives, primarily the combination of Linux and StarOffice.

      If all 1,1 million students and teachers were to take the offer of Sun, the total value would be approx. 200 million danish crowns (28 million $).

      Sorry for bad language, spelling errors and misprints.

    2. Re:Editors on crack... by Mathness · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The article speaks mostly about Sun's StarOffice and how students will be offered it, not that every school will switch to Linux.

      What I find amazing is that this story is more "news worthy" than Denmarks resent law (passed on 11/12-02) and enforced from 22/12-02, whick makes it illegal to import or resell music CDs, DVDs, books and comics from outside EU. Except for your own personal use. Which means that any buisness, education or public service (Radio and TV) have to ask permission each time they want to buy/import any of these items, if they survive long enough. Laserdisken (a Danish shop specilized in import of DVDs from America and Asia) have already begone to close two of its three shops.

      Read here for more info (sorry Danish only):
      Politiken
      Digital forbruger

      --
      Carbon based humanoid in training.
    3. Re:Editors on crack... by Iamthefallen · · Score: 2

      Ah, but StarOffice has been free for years without it becoming the standard!
      Ironically it's only the latest version 6 that Sun decided you have to pay for. Now Sun is giving it away for free to some selected institution, and people think it's the best thing since sliced bread.

      1. Change StarOffice from free to $75
      2. Give away $75 StarOffice for free
      3. ???
      4. Profit!

      --
      Wax-Museum Fire Results In Hundreds Of New Danny DeVito Statues
    4. Re:Editors on crack... by Sloppy · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I guess people are as stupid and irresponsible in Denmark as they are here in America.

      If it is the will of the Danish people to stop being assimilated by outside cultures or sending revenue to outside their jurisdiction, then all they have to do is Just Say No and stop buying that stuff. But noooo, they need a law to make themselves do what they supposedly want themselves to do.

      Not a specific criticism against the Danish people, really. As Frank Zappa would say, we're "Dumb All Over."

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    5. Re:Editors on crack... by jez9999 · · Score: 2

      If all 1,1 million students and teachers were to take the offer of Sun, the total value would be approx. 200 million danish crowns (28 million $).

      I'd just like to point out that Microsoft make more than that in a day.

  8. anyone here speak Danish? by Gerad · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've started to question the authenticity of some slashdot stories recently, especially after things like this. If the editors don't read stories posted in our own language... Anyone out there want to verify this?

    --
    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
    1. Re:anyone here speak Danish? by blakestah · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It is a lie.

      Star Office will be ubiquitious. It also works with linux, but linux will not be ubiquitious.

      In other words, they are moving to Star Office freely, or for a minimal price on CD. Hardly the same as a non-Microsoft workplace, more like non-MSOffice workplace.

      Still, not a bad start.

      Now if they could just set up a Christiania in San Francisco...

  9. Interesting tactic from Sun... by i_am_nitrogen · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Isn't this what Microsoft has been repeatedly accused of? They the first hit free, get them addicted, and tie them into the costly upgrade path. While I like seeing more people using Linux and Open Source software in general (not the smallest reason being that, as a contributor of (small) projects to the community, I feel like a part of everyone's work is making it out there to the masses), I wonder if Sun intends to some day change its mind about OSS/FS when StarOffice has become ubiquitous.

    1. Re:Interesting tactic from Sun... by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 2

      Isn't this what Microsoft has been repeatedly accused of?

      Well, if so, it hasn't been very profitable for Microsoft. The only product that Microsoft makes a profit on are Winderz (desktop, server) and Orifice. Both have never been free to my knowledge.

  10. Translation by Radagast · · Score: 5, Informative

    Free software for school use
    By Keld Louie Pedersen

    Denmark's 1.1 million students and teachers can now turn their backs to Microsoft corporation. At least when it comes to office software.

    A deal between the Silicon Valley company Sun Microsystems Incorporated and UNI-C means that the country's students and teachers can download the office program StarOffice 6.0 from Sun at no cost and freely install it on their home computer. Alternately, they can buy it on CD-ROM at cost, 10 kroners per CD. The schools can buy StarOFfice in packages of 50.

    Sun has made the deal with UNI-C according to the guidelines announced by education minister Ulla Toernaes (Left Party) on October 30th, on how educational institutions should act when offered free office software. Amongst the requirements are that such software donations are without cost for the state, and that UNI-C Denmark's information technology center should be responsible for distributing licenses.

    UNI-C's expenses are covered by the 10 kroner the distribution of CD-ROMs brings. Sun makes a server with the free Linux operating system available for those students and teachers who want to download StarOffice 6.0.

    "UNI-C exists to help the Danish educational world, so we're naturally very pleased to be able to distribute this type of initiative from Sun", says Dorte Olesen, director of UNI-C.

    The world's undisputedly most wide-spread office system is Microsoft Office, although this does not exist in a version that can be used on computers with Linux as the operating system.

    Because of Microsoft's dominance in both office and operating systems, several government institutions are working on creating alternatives, primarily the combination of Linux and StarOffice.

    If all 1.1 million students and teachers make use of the offer, the total value will, according to Sun Microsystems, be around 200 million kroners.

    --
    --Joakim Ziegler
    1. Re:Translation by jez9999 · · Score: 2

      Interesting how people say that IBM died, lost its might in the computing world. Yet, it seems to be surviving quite well as a strong force, evn in software! This could also mean that Microsoft will never 'die', and will remain strong forever. Horrible thought.

  11. Bait and switch will not work here... by codepunk · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The GPL firmly kills any chances of a bait and switch. If SUN tried to tighten the screws they could switch to open office...

    --


    Got Code?
    1. Re:Bait and switch will not work here... by Tony-A · · Score: 2

      Right. Among other things, OpenOffice forces SUN to stay honest.
      There are some distinct advantages to the StarOffice/OpenOffice duo. The software itself can be identical, but what the consumer is actually buying is substantially different.
      StarOffice is "paid-for" software. This means that support is available because the consumer has a problem. Ultimately, the consumer asks "What am I doing wrong here?" The support is geared toward helping the consumer use the software, not toward fixing anything in the software itself.
      OpenOffice is "free" software. This means that support is available because the consumer has run into an "interesting" problem. Ultimately, the consumer says "There is a problem, and here is a possible fix". The support is geared toward finding and fixing any remaining problems in the software, with "Read The Fine Manual" a valid response to any problems of user misunderstanding.
      This makes for an interesting ecosystem. As corporate, I will happily keep spending good money on StarOffice as long as it is not *too* inferior to the free OpenOffice. In a sense, what I'm really buying is that I don't have to "Read The Fine Manual". If I have a problem, I *can* get help. What *will* change is how I use the software, not the software itself. If I'm smarter (and sneakier) than the average PHB, I'll buy StarOffice and *use* OpenOffice. Long term, they reinforce each other. That's what I'm really buying.
      The ... taken the first steps to start using Linux and Staroffice in all schools is accurate. Like Apache, PHP, MySQL, etc., StarOffice/OpenOffice will work on Microsoft Windows, but there are too many edge cases that work with *nix and not with Microsoft Windows.

  12. k12ltsp by OmegaGeek · · Score: 4, Informative

    Anyone interested in doing something along these lines, and avoiding M$'s protection racket ("y'know, for a few dollars a year per station, I could make sure that you don't get hassled by software license audits"), should check out k12ltsp.org. With corporate donation programs starting to pass along some decent hardware to schools, a kick-ass lab can be had for just the cost of the networking infrastructure.

    --
    Even heroes have the right to dream
  13. traditionally many schools use Macs by DABANSHEE · · Score: 2

    & for many years they've been switching to Windows more 'n more.

  14. Re:But which Linux distribution? by intermodal · · Score: 2

    you've got it mixed up. Sun is offering free/costofmedia StarOffice, and all danish schools will be supporting the use of StarOffice, allowing students and teachers to switch linux. Certainly the schools' infastructure will be supported by linux, however the distribution of the students and teachers is certainly going to be in the OSS tradition of "whatever you prefer".

    --
    In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
  15. So it's not an interesting story at all-- by mmacdona86 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sun is making StarOffice available free for Danish schools--that's pretty much all the story is. Not really news since Sun has been promoting StarOffice pretty widely. The schools are under no obligation to use StarOffice, and it sounds like there is no Linux involved at all (except the server from which you can download StarOffice)--it might all be StarOffice for Windows that is being talked about here.

    1. Re:So it's not an interesting story at all-- by civilizedINTENSITY · · Score: 2

      Also part of the story:
      "Because of Microsoft's dominance in both office and operating systems, several government institutions are working on creating alternatives, primarily the combination of Linux and StarOffice."

      http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/24131 .html Seven Danish IT directors, including Lembøl, have got together under the auspices of the Association of Danish Municipalities, to investigate open source software packages as an alternative to Microsoft products. In particular, they are interested in StarOffice 6 (a full version of which is due in March) because of the potential savings it offers over Office 2000, and because it could be rolled out with minimum disruption. Moving to StarOffice could save roughly 100 per user annually in licensing charges, Lembøl estimates. Upon completion of a product evaluation, lasting between two to three months, of StarOffice 6, the group of seven managers plans to put forward recommendations to their peers in other municipal councils. The recommendations are not mandatory but the prospect of 275 municipalities with 55,000 desktops eyeing open source alternatives is unwelcome news for Microsoft. After completing an evaluation of StarOffice, Lembøl and his colleagues plan to evaluate Linux as a replacement for Windows 2000 on the server (and possibly desktop), though looking at an alternative to Office remains top of the agenda.

  16. Re:But Why? by mmacdona86 · · Score: 2

    Only if you are doing purely vocational education. If you are really trying to educate people on how to use computers, it's best that they learn that "how Microsoft does things" is not synonymous with "how computers work."

  17. Translation by bstadil · · Score: 2, Redundant
    Here is a quick translation. Note that UNI-C stands for University of Copenhagen, I think.

    An agreement between silicon Valley based Sun Microsystems and UNI-C has resulted in a free available download of office suite 6.0 for all school pupils, teaches and students in general.

    Alternatively they can buy the program at cost , 10kr per unit. Schools can buy them in quantities of 50.

    Sun has made and agreement with UNI-C following the guidelines, that Secretary of Education Ulla Tørnæs (Liberal Party) published on October 30'th, for how educational institutions heeds to act when offered free office suites. One of the requirement is that like offerings impose no cost on the government and the UNI-C IT-Center for research and Education handles the distribution. UNI-C covers its cost thru the 10kr charge for the physical CD-Rom. Sun provides a server with the free Linux OS installed for the students and the teachers that wishes to download StarOffice 6.0.. UNI-C mission in life is to help the Danish educational area, so we are delighted to act as a go between for such an offering from Sun, states Dorte Olesen, Managing Director. for UNI-C.

    The worlds undisputed leader in office systems is Microsoft's Office, that does exist in a version that runs on the Linux OS.

    Due to Microsoft's dominant position of the Office productivity domain as well as the underlying OS is causing more and more public institutions to seek out alternatives. Primary the combination Linux and StarOffice.

    If all 1.1 million students , teachers uses the offering the combined value of the gift from Sun Microsystems will be around 200 million kroner.

    --
    Help fight continental drift.
  18. Pass the CD... by Twintop · · Score: 2

    "Sun has agreed to provide Staroffice for free, or on a CD-ROM for 10 Danish crowns ($1.5)."

    Wow...1.1 million kids are going to have to share one CD-Rom? Anybody have a couple hundred CD-R drives ready?

  19. This just in. Denmark part of Axis of Evil by imag0 · · Score: 5, Funny

    In a stunning speech a few hours ago, President George Bush declared Denmark a "den of malcontents and terrorists". And announcing to the UN in an emergency security session the need to: "bomb the hell out of them" for obvious stockpiling weapons of mass destruction and denying their people American software, goods and services.

    Denmark, whose main exports include those silly little wooden shoes and tulips, was unavailable for comment.

    In other news, Microsoft led a resounding stock rally.

    1. Re:This just in. Denmark part of Axis of Evil by miffo.swe · · Score: 2, Troll

      You know, that wasnt funny because it is to close o reality. Is USA afraid of Sadam? No way in hell. Are they afraid that the oilprice go up? Yes!

      Solution?

      Get their own friendly government installed iraq.

      It keeps me awake at night thanking our lord that sweden havent got anything the USA could need.

      --
      HTTP/1.1 400
    2. Re:This just in. Denmark part of Axis of Evil by ewieling · · Score: 3, Informative

      "Denmark, whose main exports include those silly little wooden shoes and tulips, was unavailable for comment." That would be the Netherlands (commonly, incorrectly,referred to as Holland.

      --
      I really shouldn't have used someone else's email address for this account.
    3. Re:This just in. Denmark part of Axis of Evil by broohaha · · Score: 4, Informative

      I think that would be Holland that does that.

      Denmark, whose main exports include those silly little wooden shoes and tulips, was unavailable for comment.

    4. Re:This just in. Denmark part of Axis of Evil by Dark+Lord+Seth · · Score: 2
      I think that would be Holland that does that.

      We? No, our main exports include synthetic and organic drugs and the occasional spazzed out french tourist. The clogs and tulips are from the past, my dear.

    5. Re:This just in. Denmark part of Axis of Evil by nagora · · Score: 2
      The clogs and tulips are from the past, my dear.

      Except that clogs are still seen and tulips account for 40 percent of the whole of Duch agriculture earnings at over 150 million dollars worth per year. Sounds pretty here-and-now to me.

      TWW

      --
      "Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
    6. Re:This just in. Denmark part of Axis of Evil by Oestergaard · · Score: 2

      Wooden shoes and tulips, that's Holland.

      We're Lego, Maersk and bacon ;)

    7. Re:This just in. Denmark part of Axis of Evil by Dark+Lord+Seth · · Score: 2
      Except that clogs are still seen and tulips account for 40 percent of the whole of Duch agriculture earnings at over 150 million dollars worth per year. Sounds pretty here-and-now to me.

      Yes well, we don't keep track of drug sales because it's quite illegal to export and and thus no one keeps track of it really. But I'm very willing tp bet it's quite a lucrative business. The clogs are "out". The regular dutch person would rather be caught dead then wearing clogs. Wait untill May though and you can join in on our raw-herring eating festivities! (almost) Nothing beats enjoying a herring and seeing a bunch of foreigners freak out.

  20. translation from elcheapo online translator by netnerd.caffinated · · Score: 2, Funny

    For free software to skolebrug From KELD LOUIE PEDERSEN Denmark 11, millions skoleelever , students and teachers can be actually turn Microsoft Corporation the back. At least at a pinch kontorprogrammer. A agreement between Silicon Valley - the activity Sun Micrososystems Inc and UNI C implies , that country skoleelever , students and teachers for free can be downloads kontorprogrammet StarOffice 60 from Sun and freely put in that at their hjemmecomputer. Alternatively can be they purchase that at a CD ROM to absolute cost price : kr. a piece The schools can be purchase StarOffice to boxes à 50 piece. Sun has making the agreement by UNI C after they guideline , that undervisningsminister Ulla Tørnæs V ) published the 30. october by , how uddannelsesinstitutioner shall relationships themselves , catching they become quotation for free kontorprogrammer. Amid the demands is , that such softwaredonationer is all expenses paid by the commonwealth , and that UNI C Denmark IT - center by research and degree shall stand by the distribution from licenses. UNI C gets his spending overlayed via they kr , that the distribution from CD - Roman producing. Sun sets a servercomputer by that for free Linux oprativsystem at the disposal of they skoleelever , students and teachers , there hope that downloads StarOffice 60. UNI C is why to to be of use the danish uddannelsesverden , so vi is naturally pleased to could morning a such specifically initiative from Sun , says Dorte Olesen adm. dir by UNI C. Universe unconditionally best widespread kontorsystem is Microsoft Officer , there however no exist to a version , so that applies to the computer by Linux that executive program. On account of Microsofts dominans in såvel bureau - that the executive program works settled several public authorities at that give rise to alternatives primary the combination Linux and StarOffice. Of which all 11, millions skoleelever , students and teachers using themselves from the quotation , bishop the collected asset according to Sun Microsystems up to ca. 200 millions features. louiedk@jpdk

    --


    You tried your best, & you failed miserably,
    The lesson is:
    Never Try
  21. Why not use Linux in schools? by saskboy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There are all sorts of reasons to use Linux in schools. One being the Thin client model found at K 12 Linux.

    --
    Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
  22. Re:But Why? by WNight · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If students can learn an office suite and desktop environment like Mandrake, or Redhat, and they can't apply these skills to Windows, they don't deserve to graduate. Students taught on a Mac manage to transfer their skills to other computers with a day or so of orientation, so why do you expect Linux will be much harder? You do know it's not all command-line based, right? There are applications other than grep and vim.

    Perhaps they'll be addicted to system stability and being able to move documents between programs... It might be hard to go back after that.

  23. penetrating the soft underbelly ... by beanerspace · · Score: 2

    This is something that needs to happen on a larger scale here in the U.S. If Sun were smart, they'd provide obscenely cheap and even easier to install distributions for schools, churches, charities and students. Not that its not already out there - but I'm talking about some slick ad campaigns, seminars, tutorials and all sorts of stuff that would encourage the non /.'r to get out there and get it installed.

    Yeah, Apple has been trying to do this for years with their education program. Then again, they're not offering obscenely cheap software that is easy to install on donated Pentium III's.

    1. Re:penetrating the soft underbelly ... by Chordonblue · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sun is smart - they are going to do this the right way. They are working on programs for education. It may be that they will release something around the same time Office 11 comes out.

      OpenOffice.org - the development platform for StarOffice is only at 1.0.1. It is stable (at least for us), but there are still a few issues to resolve. Not the least of which is a usable version for the Mac. This is probably part of the reason they are waiting as many schools do use Apple (although these are decreasing).

      Our school jumped on the bandwagon while OpenOffice.org was still in beta. We completely converted to Open/StarOffice last year. I think that part of this push (when it happens), should also center around competition. It should go something like this:

      "How many of your tax dollars go to your local schools? How much of that goes to Microsoft? You might be surprised..."

      Offer StarOffice for cost of media, give OpenOffice.org to the students / parents on request and you've got a winner.

      --
      "...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
  24. Re:This is HUGE HUGE news!!! by ceejayoz · · Score: 2

    Actually, if you read the translation you'll find that it's actually just Sun willing to provide StarOffice free of charge to any school that wants it.

    Linux is given away for free, too, but that doesn't mean all schools in Denmark will use it, too.

  25. Re:Is that the meaning of... by MacAndrew · · Score: 2

    I know, I know, a Danish is a breakfast pastry, right? (sense 2: light sweet yeast-raised roll usually filled with fruits or cheese) Dutch is where each person pays for their own food.

    Don't take the errors personally, (we) Americans are pretty clueless what goes on abroad, and at home (have you heard of the Pennsylvania "Dutch"?). A surprising number can't name the President, or explain the Supreme Court's interpretation of the 11th amendment. On the other hand, let me ask *you* a few questions about American, Mr. Resident Alien..... Yes, you probably know more than I do, don't show off. And it's pretty darn inconsiderate that Dutch doesn't sound at all like "Holland" or "The Netherlands," but does sound a lot like "Deutsch."

    I've at least visited the Netherlands and thought Copenhagen was great! (A joke! Really!)

    When you live in a country that's big enough to confuse you, you're less likely to look abroad for additional confusion.

  26. Re:But Why? by teamhasnoi · · Score: 2
    As some CEO guy said to a University, (IMOW) "Send us people who know how to *think*, we'll train them the rest of the way."

    No one should be taking a class in 'Word', they should be taking a class in how to put ideas together to make a coherent whole.

    What they *use* to do that is immaterial.

  27. Not Linux, star office by pyman · · Score: 4, Informative
    The article talks about schools switching to StarOffice.

    It does not mention anything about schools switching to Linux.

    --
    a ^= b; b ^= a; a ^= b;
  28. I see many posts about LTSP by codepunk · · Score: 2

    Don't get me wrong the LTSP stuff is great but to hard to manage in my experience. If you wish to deploy the linux desktop load a bare minimum install to the client (yes that means you need a drive in the machine). Use a redhat kickstart to install the clients. The kickstart install should replace the inittab with one pointing x windows at your terminal server. Most all refurb and currently installed clients have drives anyhow. Now on the server the only thing to do is turn on XDM and you have a full up system

    LTSP requires a ton of configuration and requires boot rom's and nfs to mount root drives. This is to many pieces and parts to fail. I run hundred's of clients in this fashion and it requires darn near 0 effort to maintain by the sysadmin.

    --


    Got Code?
  29. I wish... by InsaneCreator · · Score: 2

    If ony something like this were to happen here in Slovenia, where schools seem to be owned by Microsoft.

    Even people graduating from CS hardly konw Linux even exists. And those who do, usually drop out of college during first 2 years. That's what I did...

  30. Re:But Why? by Shelled · · Score: 2

    The students are learning math, history, language, science, the arts and not computational skills. The very best interface would more probably be similar to an ATM or airport info terminal than a typical desktop. Window's popularity is irrelevant here except to all but vocational students training for office support. My guess is that, Denmark being a prosperous and educated country, most kids learn Windows proficiency at home.

  31. But why NOT?! by Chordonblue · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Look, I work at a school that has converted itself to Open/Staroffice. I just love the way some people assume that no one can change the way they do things anymore or that if they have to, there must be a financial reason behind it. If the past is any indication of the future - there's a hell of a lot more change coming.

    Case in point: One of the arguments made against using Open/StarOffice here was this very thing - that everyone would have to learn something new. A few of the teachers were concerned about our conversion to Open/StarOffice; this was my basic response:

    1) Yep. That's what we do - we learn new things here at school. You expect the students to learn new things. Well, once in a while, the teachers must adjust also.

    2) This is hardly the first time (and probably won't be the last time) that we have changed office-type software. As I had only been at the school one year prior to this, I did some checking.

    Before using Office 97, they were using 95. Before that, some were using Word for DOS, some Works. Before that, Wordperfect. Before that, XYwrite and Visicalc. Etc. Change is inevitable.

    The big difference here is that there's a lot more in common between Open/StarOffice and MS Office than MS Office and say, the Wordperfect suite. Sometimes, I think that people that slam on the usability and 'retraining' costs, haven't bothered TRYING it themselves! It's not that hard folks, really.

    3) Standardizing on Open/StarOffice lets us give a FREE copy of Openoffice.org to every student, every teacher, every parent (should they want it). Truly a win/win situation here! No more BS with students showing up with a paper they typed at home and not being able to open it at school.

    4) Which teacher would like to give up his/her position to enable us to afford licensing for Office XP (yes, I was serious!)

    For us. the REAL question was - can the replacement software do EVERYTHING the last one could - at least for what we use it for? For the teachers and students the answer was a definate 'yes'.

    I won't even get into the biggest advantage of all. Being able to use a cross-platform office suite means having the ability to GO cross-platform at some future date. Whether we do or not will depend on Microsoft.

    --
    "...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
    1. Re:But why NOT?! by Tony-A · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No more BS with students showing up with a paper they typed at home and not being able to open it at school.
      That's the real payout. And everybody using the same version of the same software is *not* a viable solution. Home, Office, School. Different versions of different software. They all need to be able to read and write. The duo of StarOffice/OpenOffice will tend to ensure that "improvements" and "enhancements" do not introduce gratuitous incompatibilities.

  32. [OT] Re:Universities in the US... by snilloc · · Score: 4, Informative
    FYI for those not familiar w/ the Pennsylvania higher ed system. (Not necessarily the parent).

    Penn State and Pitt are "semi-private" Commonwealth affiliated institutions. They get interesting tax status, charge in-state students less, and get some Commonwealth funding.

    Then there are the more traditional state colleges: Lock Haven, IUP, Shippensburg(??), etc.

  33. Re:This is HUGE HUGE news!!! by pointwood · · Score: 2

    Huh? Where is the connection between Redhat and StarOffice?

    StarOffice is made by Sun and it is available for Windows too. My guess is that the vast majority of the StarOffice installations will be on Windows, since that is what most people use here (yes, I'm from Denmark).

    This is still very cool though. It will make a lot of people familiar with StarOffice instead of MS Office.

  34. Re:But Why? by ender's_shadow · · Score: 2

    Computers are computers. The OS/UI the kids will be using in their future careers won't be like current Windows anyway. Our current systems aren't too close to MS/DOS educational PCs that were around when we were kids, or even C64s -- was that the one with the "turtle" drawing game using angles and distances?

    Besides, getting the kids on a system that is more nuts-and-bolts and open is better for their CS education anyway. C'mon, they can roll their own kernel.

  35. Re:Microsoft may have a strong foothold in the US. by intermodal · · Score: 2

    that's some of the dumbest FUD I've heard in a long time. Germany's bundestag switched, brazil certainly loves the penguin, and denmark switched their schools. So where do you get off saying that the US is the only way to get things to change? Just because the US was the leader in the 1950-2000 era certainly does not mean that the change won't come from abroad. It's that kind of ignorance and defeatism that hinders the progress and adoption of the OSS community.

    --
    In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
  36. StarOffice? by Jucius+Maximus · · Score: 2
    Honestly, I think that StarOffice is not so good of an office suite. I always had trouble using it and it ended up being quite slow.

    I suggest that everyone intrested in alternate office suites check out OpenOffice which is like StarOffice without the fat. I have used MS Office products for the last 8 years almost exclusively and I can honestly say that OpenOffice is ready for the needs 99%+ of MS Office users. I am already using features in OpenOffice like Cross-Referencing and automated indexing that I never figured out in Word (if they exist, which they probably do.)

    I started my first real project with it 2 days ago (which is documentation for a program I wrote) and everything is moving quite smoothly.

    Overall, it is both Free and highly recommended by me. If you want to ditch office please look at OpenOffice!

    1. Re:StarOffice? by Moritz+Moeller+-+Her · · Score: 2

      OpenOffice and StarOffice are virtually identical.

      The only differences are license, fonts, cliparts, templates, dictionaries, thesasaurus and better hyphenation in SO-6. The speed of both should pretty much be identical on both systems.

      --
      Moritz
  37. Clarification of a few things... by bolind · · Score: 5, Informative

    Hi,

    I'm from Denmark, I can read the article, so I figured I'd clear up a few things:

    An entity, which is called UNI-C, has reached an agreement with Sun Microsystems about distribution of their StarOffice package. Schools, teachers and students will be able to get the software for free if they download it (from a linux server, running on the danish school network known as Sektornet) or for a fee of ~ $1.50 on a CD.

    UNI-C is a semigovermental entity, that does networking for the public school system and the universities, hosts the DIX (Danish Internet eXchange) and things like that. Danish law says, that for a public school to accept free software, the software must be of no expense to the state, and its ditribution must be handled by UNI-C.

    So, in conclusion, no, every school in Denmark is not switching to Linux. They may switch to StarOffice, on some platform.

    But hey, it's a step in the right direction...

    Oh, and merry x-mas everyone.

    Bo

  38. Re:Why not OpenOffice? by Jucius+Maximus · · Score: 2
    "I don't know about you guys, but OpenOffice has a tendency to crash. A lot. Gimme Gnumeric + AbiWord over OpenOffice OR StarOffice ANY day."

    Really? I have not used openoffice for very long yet, (only several hours of word processing) but it has been 100% solid so far.

  39. Stunning Al Quaida - Lego - Denmark link by solferino · · Score: 5, Funny

    In a full press release made available shortly after President Bush's recent speech attacking Denmark, the Administration outlined suspicions linking the Lego Corporation of Denmark to Al Quaida and the attack on the World Trade Centre.

    Apparently, the attack was planned using a 43,000 lego brick scale model of the two towers. The Administration suspects direct involvement by Lego Corporation's scaled modelling experts and has now declared Lego products a Weapon of Mass (Modelling) Destruction. The Administration is now compiling a list of all people who have made substantial Lego purchases in the last few week and will be immediately calling them in for questioning and possible detention over the next few days.

  40. Re: Danish eh... by mutende · · Score: 2

    I'm another one. :-)

    --
    Unselfish actions pay back better
  41. Re:Microsoft may have a strong foothold in the US. by tsa · · Score: 2

    Besides, this is about business not politics. And Europe alone is a much bigger market than the US. And then we're not even talking about India. Billy didn't go there for fun.

    --

    -- Cheers!

  42. If someone switches back, you'd hear about it. by g4dget · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Microsoft's PR department would probably let you know if some big institution that switched away from Windows or Office came back to it. And there are plenty of computer columnists and reporters who would have a field day with that as well.

    While individuals and small installations may go back to Windows, I suspect that for most large installations, the cost advantages and reliability of Linux are so compelling that they tend to stay with it.

    1. Re:If someone switches back, you'd hear about it. by g4dget · · Score: 2

      The deployment never happened, and that was reported pretty widely (e.g., here). This wasn't a problem with Linux, it was a problem with politics and funding. And, frankly, in that kind of situation, I think Linux is better deployed through an incremental grass-roots effort anyway. The Danish approach seems better.

  43. Uni-C: Danish IT Centre for Education and Research by Penguin · · Score: 2

    More info about Uni-C (in English):

    http://www.uni-c.dk/generelt/english/index.html

    --
    - Peter Brodersen; professional nerd
  44. Frustration? by theolein · · Score: 2

    That you don't understand any language besides english?

  45. hold on a sec buddy by Kunta+Kinte · · Score: 2
    The GPL firmly kills any chances of a bait and switch. If SUN tried to tighten the screws they could switch to open office...

    I don't think this is true exactly. Sun is the copyright holder, they can distribute the software on any terms that they wish. I think that's why they can link Open-office with closed-source libraries like the template code and other extras and sell it as StarOffice.

    It's only fair though. Sun bought the star-office code for a lot of money and released it GPL. They didn't have to do that, but they did. They also put quite a few developers and other resources into managing the resulting open-office.

    Just as with Mozilla and AOL, I'm sure a large part of the work going into open office today is still on Suns dime.

    If Sun wanted to tighten the screws as you said, all they'd have to do is remove some of the developers that they have on OO and put them on StarOffice only code; although I don't think they have any reason to do that.

    --
    Based on upvotes, Ageism is the only "-ism" Slashdotters care about and think isn't SJW
  46. MS Works not an abortion by caveman · · Score: 2, Funny

    Microsoft Works is not an abortion, it's an oxymoron

    Like 'Taped live', 'Military Intelligence', 'Tax Return' or 'Government Organisation'

    OXYMORON n.: A rhetorical figure in which an epigrammatic effect is created by the conjunction of incongruous or contradictory terms

    More oxymorons here and here (and I'm sure you can search google for more.

    P.S. Could someone please explain what 'Commonwealth affiliated' means in one of the replies above, for the benefit of us UK folk, to whom 'Commonwealth' means something probably quite different.

  47. Re:Why not OpenOffice? by axxackall · · Score: 2
    I keep the same instance of OpenOffice in memory by opening new files and closing exisiting ones for weeks on both Linux and Windows boxes. No crashes so far, no memory leak.

    What is really bad is MS-Word file format support. When I have OO Writer file of 100K and export it to MS Word doc format I get 20M. That export has certainly a bug somewhere.

    --

    Less is more !
  48. Sun and MS--brothers of same ilk by fudgefactor7 · · Score: 2

    "Sun has agreed to provide Staroffice for free, or on a CD-ROM for 10 Danish crowns ($1.5)."

    And how, exactly, is this dumping any different than the tactics Microsoft uses?

    1. Re:Sun and MS--brothers of same ilk by ctid · · Score: 2

      Sun doesn't have a monopoly, so they're allowed to give their stuff away. Microsoft's tactics were illegal because they held a monopoly (which is legal), but then took actions (ie bundling IE) to maintain their monopoly (which is illegal).

      IANAL, by the way.

      --
      Reality is defined by the maddest person in the room
    2. Re:Sun and MS--brothers of same ilk by fudgefactor7 · · Score: 2

      Sun does have a monopoly over their products, but that's neither here nor there; and I would like to point out that MS had DOJ permission to do those things in advance, then the DOJ miraculously changed its mind. Which is probably why MS keeps winning in court. It all stems back to the DOJ letter they received granting permission.

      Every producer has a monopoly over their products, be it Office, Solaris, Paradox, or Access. Just like in Highlander, there can be only one (who gets the right to maintain the product, licensing aside.)

    3. Re:Sun and MS--brothers of same ilk by alteran · · Score: 2

      "Every producer has a monopoly over their products, be it Office, Solaris, Paradox, or Access. Just like in Highlander, there can be only one (who gets the right to maintain the product, licensing aside.)"

      Methinks you misunderstand what a monopoly is, at least legally. Making a unique product that no one else has or can sell is NOT a monopoly. It is legitimate competition. But any entity controlling a specific market segment to the point where that segment cannot reasonably be called competitive IS a monopoly.

      Microsoft has been found, despite using every delay tactic and technicality money could buy, to have a monopoly in the desktop OS market. You may disagree with this conclusion, but it is a legal FACT.

      Monopolies are not illegal-- but EXTENDING them, as the previous poster pointed out, by using the monopoly to freeze competition in market segments which are not yet monopolized, IS illegal.

      This is why MS's giving away and embedding IE in its OS was illegal.

      It is also why Sun giving away its office suite is not.

      --
      Who is RTFM and when will he help me with Unix?
    4. Re:Sun and MS--brothers of same ilk by fudgefactor7 · · Score: 2

      "This is why MS's giving away and embedding IE in its OS was illegal."

      Not according to the DOJ letter dated prior to Windows 95's release. It was after Windows 98 came out that the DOJ pitched a fit.

      And, just so you know, I DO know what a Monopoly is, I simply use the standard definition of Monopoly that the average Slashdotter uses when yapping about MS' evil tactics.

    5. Re:Sun and MS--brothers of same ilk by ctid · · Score: 2
      You obviously don't know what a monopoly is, otherwise you wouldn't have said that "Sun has a monopoly over its own products", which doesn't mean anything.


      As for this letter, do you think that Judge Jackson didn't know about it? All the evidence was considered, and the Judge, notwithstanding his rather foolish comments to journalists, found Microsoft to be illegally attempting to extend their monopoly. There's really no point debating this issue.

      --
      Reality is defined by the maddest person in the room
    6. Re:Sun and MS--brothers of same ilk by fudgefactor7 · · Score: 2

      "You obviously don't know what a monopoly is..."

      That's funny, the two business degrees I have hanging on my wall seem to think different. Here's a definition for you: "The exclusive power, or privilege of selling a commodity; the exclusive power, right, or privilege of dealing in some article, or of trading in some market; sole command of the traffic in anything, however obtained; as, the proprietor of a patented article is given a monopoly of its sale for a limited time; chartered trading companies have sometimes had a monopoly of trade with remote regions; a combination of traders may get a monopoly of a particular product." Are you saying that SUN doens't control Solaris? That's interesting... Wrong, but interesting. SUN does have a monopoly over it's products, that is a key element of a free capitalist society, otherwise you have chaos and socialism. Thus my statements are correct.

      Jackson is/was/forever-shall-be an ass who knew nothing, didn't understand technology nor the issues at hand, and was willing to tell the DOJ that they didn't know jack, thus his rejection of the letter. Ever wonder why MS almost always wins at the appellate level? It's because the plaintiffs didn't have their shit together, not because MS' high-priced lawyers are just that much better. MS in the way-back times of pre-Windows 95 told the DOJ exactly what they were going to do, MS at that time knew there would be concerns about it (especially with their claims of wanting to decomoditize the Internet--remember trying to find TCP/IP stack for DOS?), and the DOJ--the Government arm of the US who has jurisdiction over this matter, and is infinitely more knowledgable of the law than some schmuck judge, said in essence "go ahead, we don't see any problem." Only when deep pocketed Netscape got a boo-boo did anyone give a rat's ass.

      "There's really no point debating this issue."

      Yes, especially since you're wrong.

    7. Re:Sun and MS--brothers of same ilk by ctid · · Score: 2
      That's interesting... Wrong, but interesting. SUN does have a monopoly over it's products, that is a key element of a free capitalist society, otherwise you have chaos and socialism. Thus my statements are correct.


      Have you lost your mind? Of course X has a monopoly over X's products, but what possible relevance does that have? At the beginning of this debate, you asked how Sun giving away StarOffice is different from what MS was doing. I replied that MS was using its giveaway to extend its monopoly. Now you're telling me that Sun has a monopoly over its own products. What the fuck does that have to do with the price of bread? Of course what you said is true, but it's utterly irrelevant.


      To re-iterate. MS was using IE to extend its monopoly. Sun doesn't have a monopoly. Since you have "two business degrees", I'm sure you will be able to understand the difference.


      As for your tirade about Judge Jackson, his ruling that MS was attempting to extend its monopoly has not been overturned and still stands. You can argue all you want about it, but it is the law.

      --
      Reality is defined by the maddest person in the room
    8. Re:Sun and MS--brothers of same ilk by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 2

      "The exclusive power, or privilege of selling a..."

      If you have two degrees (btw I have 4) you surely must know that this is not the definition of monopoly that applies in a court of law under the Sherman Anti-Trust and Taft-Hartley acts. In the context of this discussion all you are doing is engaging in sophistry with statements like "SUN has a monopoly on it's own products".

      In this case Microsoft was ruled not to merely have a monopoly on it's own products but to have a monopoly on operating systems for the desktop computer market.

      IN ADDITION, Microsoft was found to have ILLEGALLY used that monopoly to harm competition.

      As far as Microsoft winning at the appelate level, did NOT see Jackson's findings of either Microsoft's monopoly position or their illegal use of that position overruled. The only findings that were changed were the penalites to be imposed, WHICH ARE STILL UNDER CHALLENGE.

      In addition the Jackson rulings have triggered seperate suits by Sun, AOL, and others. Finally, Microsoft is in even more trouble in Europe where they do not have the cachet of a 'home grown US business'. I think that Micorosft is going to suffer badly in Europe as a result of it's predations.

      Only when deep pocketed Netscape got a boo-boo did anyone give a rat's ass.

      Microsoft was being challenged under antitrust laws from other sources as well. The Netscape issue had nothing to do with 'deep pockets', but rather the importance of whether Microsoft was going to be able to make the internet it's own fiefdom through illegal exercise of monopoly power. Interestingly this is still very much an issue as ruling in the Sun Java case and news of a rumored buyout of Macromedia clearly show.

      No, Microsoft has engaged in illegal acts, and I imagine that it's legal problems are FAR from over.

    9. Re:Sun and MS--brothers of same ilk by fudgefactor7 · · Score: 2

      "IN ADDITION, Microsoft was found to have ILLEGALLY used that monopoly to harm competition."

      That claim will be debated 'til the Universe implodes. Careful analysis of every "affected" company shows that, with few exceptions, they are in a superior position now than before. Netscape purchased by AOL-TW. Result: a bad-ass company. Apple: better software, stronger in the market (still not huge percentage, but that's gonna take time.)

      This can go on forever (naming companies and comparing before and after shots of them), and in almost each one, they're better off. So I ask you, how then:

      (a) is the end consumer harmed;
      (b) are those companies harmed if they're in a superior position now.

      Clearly, MS has a monopoly. Clearly, only a handful are injured and the rest, including the consumer, are enhanced. To penalize MS would promote an invalid competitor needlessly or harm a major market without understanding. Best to do absolutely nothing to MS. In 5 years the landscape of Internet commerce and technology as a whole will be so utterly different it won't matter.

      But all this changes nothing of what SUN is doing: which is exactly what MS was berated for (giving away software.) You think SUN doesn't want to enhance its market in this manner, or that they're being altruistic? Crapola. They see this as "goose for the gander" and they need to be called on it.

      And as for what Europe will do, who can say, the Europeans never were very bright.

    10. Re:Sun and MS--brothers of same ilk by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 2

      Netscape purchased by AOL-TW. Result: a bad-ass company.

      Result: Netscape doesn't even exist as an independent company, and has fallen from a 90+% market share to 3%.

      Apple: better software, stronger in the market

      Apple? Since when were they part of this? In any case, just take a look at the corporate revenues of MS vs Apple vs. Microsoft over the last 10 years.

      So I ask you, how then:

      (a) is the end consumer harmed;
      (b) are those companies harmed if they're in a superior position now.


      (a). Look at the new MS Licensing program and tell me MS customers haven't been hurt. Not to mention people who want to buy a PC without getting Windows crammed down their throat.
      (b) You haven't told me the name of any company that is better off.

    11. Re:Sun and MS--brothers of same ilk by fudgefactor7 · · Score: 2

      "(a). Look at the new MS Licensing program and tell me MS customers haven't been hurt. Not to mention people who want to buy a PC without getting Windows crammed down their throat. (b) You haven't told me the name of any company that is better off."

      To answer your point "a", I don't know about you and your situation, but myself personally, and the company for which I work are BOTH saving money under the new plan. Additionally, if you check out all the options, and just don't blindly take one that looks good on the surface, you'd be saving too. The new licensing program MS has is "ok" but not "great." If I were grading it, I'd give it a "C+/B-" because there needs to be one or two more options, but other than that it's a Martha Stewart "good thing."

      And to answer your point "b", Netscape is better off--having massive reserves of cash upon which they can draw as a result of the AOL-TW buyout. Apple (which I mentioned because it is almost always mentioned when talking about MS and monopoly) is in good shape too, with higher earnings than any time in the recent past. If you foolishly compare Apple's bottom-line to MS' you'd think they were getting their asses handed to them, but you'd be wrong. Look at sales, look at the simple fact that MS keeps making software for MacOS. If MS wanted to kill Apple utterly, they could by just saying "no more." But that would be the death-knell of MS as well, since the DOJ would see that (accurately, of course) as predatory elimination. SUN is bitching because that's what they do. Java isn't doing as well as they think it should so they're looking for scapegoats, nevermind the fact that Java is still broken and slow. Since SUN's Solaris never really competes against Windows (UNIX being in a different class of OS) one shouldn't assume that they can be directly compared--if that was the case, SUN would have a reasonable complaint and lawsuit against any number of Linux vendors since a lot of UNIX and Solaris use has gone to Linux.

  49. Well, Linux is more indirectly mentioned. by Kjella · · Score: 2

    It points out both that MS Office doesn't run on Linux (why would it be relevant that StarOffice runs on Linux unless they're considering moving to Linux?)

    And in the next paragraph it says that several public institutions are working to move from MS products (Windows/Office), primarily to Linux/StarOffice.

    What it all leads up to is that this application is ready to move to Linux. Of course that doesn't mean that other software might hold them back on Windows.

    Kjella

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  50. No, Holland has a much more insidious export by vaxer · · Score: 2
  51. Not really... by devphil · · Score: 2


    Oil is expensive, but not nearly as expensive as the cost of invasion. Or war. Saving several million, or even several hundred million, doesn't stand up to the billions of greenbacks that a war with Iraq would require.

    A stupid move on Bush's part? Yes. Done for shady reasons with crappy motivations? Yes. Are oil prices part of that motivation? Not really.

    The US doesn't get that much of its oil from Iraq. It's not like there aren't other members of OPEC willing to sell to us. Or Texas, for that matter.

    --
    You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
  52. Re:Why not OpenOffice? by praedor · · Score: 2

    How about so one large entity (schools/gov't org) can count on full support from another org (Sun)? Such organizations are not the type of entity that will populate mailing lists or newsgroups seeking support, they want a single source that is certain to deal with any problem they have right now.


    This isn't a dig at openoffice, it is simply a fact that the openoffice people are not setup for providing support the same way that Sun is. This fact is one of the reasons that the corporation that is RedHat is the biggest and most successful linux distro to date because they are a single corporate entity that will support their product faster and better than a newsgroup can (or mailing list). These common free means of support are fine for individuals but don't cut it for corporations or government entities.


    Sun and Staroffice were the right choice in this, given the requirements. Besides, large entities supporting Staroffice are by default also supporting Openoffice as they are fully compatible with each other. The important thing, the KEY thing, is that something other than M$ Office is being adopted in a big way and this will continue. The growth of corporations and governments adopting Staroffice also supports openoffice. It is win-win.

    --
    In Bushworld, they struggle to keep church and state separate in Iraq as they increasingly merge the two in America.
  53. Damn straight! by NineNine · · Score: 2

    And what's wrong with 30+ year old technology? Why the hell are we using "DVD"s when we should be using videotapes?? CD's? Screw that. I want records. Anti-lock brakes and fuel injectors in cars? No way. I want 2 drum brakes and a carbureator. What's with this "progress" thing, anyway? Computers shouldn't be any easier to use. They should be just as difficult as they were in the 1970's. After all, that's what technology is all about. Not changing. Not progressing. Now damn it, where's my reel to reel tape drive and my 300 baud modem?

  54. Re:But Why? by 1u3hr · · Score: 2
    It makes a lot more educational sense to be teaching people Windows instead of Linux.

    In an office there is a staff of geeks to keep the PCs running. All the vast majority of office drones need to kow is how to type (a useful skill if you can do it properly), and select text and click on a button to make it bold, pink or whatever, then click on the print or send button. That's all most people who use Windows and Office really use it for; and if you're doing it on Windows, Linux or Mac it doesn't take more than a few hours to "switch" to whatever.

    Ten years ago there was a huge variety of apps used -- for Word processing most used DOS and Wordperfect, or Word (DOS or Mac) or IBM Displaywrite or Wordstar, (we even had an antique CPM machine with Wordstar). Are people now so much more stupid than then that they'll go into shock if there isn't a start menu and a paperclip to tell them what to do? Give people credit for having brains -- it's not the specifics of each application schools should be teaching anyway. When today's kids go to work in five or ten years how much will MS stuff have changed?

  55. Origin of "crown" as money by yerricde · · Score: 2

    There aren't even that many kings in Denmark!

    Aside from the joke...

    The term "crown" referring to a monetary unit comes from the fact that some old coins had a bas-relief crown stamped into them. It's analogous to the term "Benjamin" referring to a 100 USD note, which carries a picture of Benjamin Franklin.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
  56. Re:Microsoft may have a strong foothold in the US. by duck_prime · · Score: 2
    Slightly OT, but I sometimes wonder if Americans (USA) realize just how many people outside of their country look to America (USA) with a growing distaste. Oops, mod -1 unamerikan.
    Oh please. Slashdot is a place where it is easy, safe, and fun to be anti-American.

    Even the American kids jump in, out of genuine protest (over what? aren't we plundering the world for their benefit ;), or peer pressure, hard to tell sometimes. There seems to be a double standard where every other country has to be understood in its own context, but "Duh US juzzt sux man".

    Just so's you know, Americans are aware that other people, especially Europeans, often raise an eyebrow at us. Out of politeness due a senile ancestor, we rarely mention how impressed we are by this.
  57. Cultural Imperialism by duck_prime · · Score: 2
    What I find amazing is that this story is more "news worthy" than Denmarks resent law (passed on 11/12-02) and enforced from 22/12-02, whick makes it illegal to import or resell music CDs, DVDs, books and comics from outside EU.
    They are afraid of American culture somehow "taking over". Take that as you will, but it seems somehow un-neighborly. It's sad that it is an EU country leading the way to block the free contest of ideas, in order to shore up their feeble tribal identity.

    Shame on them.
    1. Re:Cultural Imperialism by d_i_r_t_y · · Score: 2

      i lived in denmark for 6 months. there, as well as here, in my native australia, the only *real* sources of american influence are from TV, movies, and by extension, advertising and business models. i think you'd find if you dared to ask that most non-US people abhor the idea of US culture with its superficiality and 'me'-ness ever infiltrating their own culture. i don't think it will happen outside of the sphere of entertainment and possibly fast food.

      i have spent time in the US as well, and there is a US-centricity to your media like you wouldn't believe unless you'd spent a reasonable amount of time outside the US. i, and many others i know find it really quite troubling.... especially in light of the pro-violence, pro-government-control policies of your current government.... not unlike the political climate in pre-WWII germany....

      pray god it never comes to that. and don't say it couldn't happen, it's been said before.

  58. How many? by LowellPorter · · Score: 2

    1.1 million students

    Wow. I didn't realize Denmark was so small. Here in the US, cities like Chicago, LA, and New York probably have that many students in their school districts. I wonder if any of them would consider switching to Linux? It would save them a ton of money if they had good Linux administrators.

  59. Re:Microsoft may have a strong foothold in the US. by intermodal · · Score: 2

    "Slightly OT, but I sometimes wonder if Americans (USA) realize just how many people outside of their country look to America (USA) with a growing distaste. Oops, mod -1 unamerikan."

    there's a growing sentiment of that inside the US too. I, for one, would like to move to Canada sometime in the next decade...

    --
    In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
  60. Quick translation by gnalle · · Score: 2, Informative

    The article does not claim that the schools are switching. It only says that staroffice will be available for download. Here is a quick translation with a few typos

    Free software for school use

    Denmarks 1,1 million school pupils, students and teacher can now turn to back to microsoft. At least with respect to office programs.

    A deal between the silicon valley company Sun Micrososystems Incorporated and UNI-C causes that all the school pupils, students and teachers can download the office program Startoffice for free and install it on their home computwer. Alternatively they can buy it on a CD-ROM for the price of frabrication: 10 kr per CD (This is about 1 $). The schools can buy staroffice i packages of 50 cd's

    The deal that Sun made with UNI-C follows the directions laid out by minister of education Ulla Tørnæs. They were made public October 30th, and they describe how institutions of education must act when offered office programs for free
    One of the demands are that such donations do not cost the state any money, another demand is that UNI-C (The IT-center of research and education of Denmark) must administrate and distribute the licences.

    UNI-C will have its expenses covered through the 10 kr that the CD's cost. Sun will provide a server with the cost-free OS Linux for the pupils, students and teachers who wish to download StarOffice 6.0.

    >>UNI-C exists to help the danish education world, so of course we are happy to be able to mediate such a special initiative from Sun, says Dorthe Olesen, administrative director of UNI-C.

    The most used office system in the world Microsoft Office, does not have a version for Linux

    Because of the dominance of Microsoft in office and operative systems, a growing number of state owned institutions work on creating alternatives - primarily a combination of starofice and Linux

    If all 1,1 milion pupils, students and teachers use the offer, the total value is about 200 million kr (20 mil $) (says sun)

  61. Linguistics by Snaller · · Score: 2

    In Danish the word for a crown and for the currency is the same, though they don't mean the same. ie, its incorrect to call the currny crown, its Kroner (and not ment to be translated)

    --
    If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
  62. Now they are going to be after Slashdot! by Snaller · · Score: 2

    Oh oh, now slashdot has done it - the linked to the newspaper Politikken - previously the danish newspapers have been after danish sites who liked to them. They said it was leeching on their work, and threathened court action - the small sites buckled down in fear then...

    --
    If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
  63. US Still Wins by AHumbleOpinion · · Score: 2

    ... but as the US has consistently proved in the past decade and still not caught on to is that they're not the center of the universe... UNIX has been a staple of Computer Science since the 70s ...

    The US still wins, Unix is a US invention (AT&T, UC Berkeley) embraced by the world, and as you point out the center of the computing universe now and for decades to come. :-)

    1. Re:US Still Wins by intermodal · · Score: 2

      You're implying that birthplace breeds centricity. Linux was born in Finland, but is not centered anywhere anymore, unless you consider Linus (who is not the US nor its population) to be the center, in which case it's Linus and not the US which is the center. Saying that UNIX was created in the US does not guarantee that a POSIX revolution would start here.

      --
      In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
    2. Re:US Still Wins by AHumbleOpinion · · Score: 2

      Minux, Linux, etc. were created to study and/or replicate Unix. In the US when we cut stones and erect columns capped with an arch we are being about as original as someone doing yet another reimplementation of Unix. The engravings and UI change, incremental improvements are made, but the core design, the heart of the original, remains the same. The original design's success grows with imitation or reuse. There is no way to spin the success of Unix as anti-US. Anti-MS yes, but not anti-US, US != MS.

    3. Re:US Still Wins by intermodal · · Score: 2

      you're getting completely off the point. UNIX exists. That point is not in debate. UNIX was originally created in the US. That is also not in debate. The debate here is that if Microsoft is going to lose their market share, it need not begin in the United States. This does not necessitate the creation of a new operating system, though it may or may not happen. If much of the world changes, chances of change increase without necessarily involving a change in the United States first.

      --
      In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
    4. Re:US Still Wins by AHumbleOpinion · · Score: 2

      The BSD and GPL licenses originated in the US. StarOffice is a Sun product. US schools, universities, and corporations are investigating Linux and some are switching to Linux. Sometimes switching from MS, sometimes from other more traditional Unix vendors such as Sun. The couple US states that struck large deals with Apple probably dwarf Denmark. My point is that the notion of the "revolution" being something outside of the US is silly, the notion that the US is not at the center is also highly debatable. The notion that other nations consider switching for the "good of the nation rather than the economy" is questionable. Often the switch is purely economical, sometimes TCO, sometimes as a negotiating tactic to get a better license from MS.

    5. Re:US Still Wins by AHumbleOpinion · · Score: 2

      The failure is on your part. Your premise that a change won't necessarily originate in the US is false by the simple fact that much of the change has already originated in the US. To some degree these changes embolden other nations to follow. We are all on the same path, as a group, whoever momentarily steps in front is reassured by the presence of the group.

      Apologies if I confused you in my previous post by responding to points from your previous post and your first post.