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2003: Year of Linux in Asia?
Anonymous Coward writes "The Register has a story
about traveling to a magical country where seeing Linux laptops displayed in stores is perfectly normal. The author then goes on to predict that this year will see much more desktop action coming not from Red Hat or Euro-Distros, but from China and India. Makes sense to me."
I feel so sorry for the newborns this year...
"I'm was born in the year of the dragon!"
"I was born in the year of the bull!"
"... Iwas born during the year of the geeks..."
Banaaaana!
2003: the year of Asian Linux
By Robin Miller, NewsForge.com
Posted: 27/12/2002 at 10:56 GMT
As most regular NewsForge readers know, I recently traveled to Arabeyes Project, was a small, independent computer store located in a back alley in one of Amman's many modest commercial districts.
There is a sameness to this kind of store the world over. I shop at one much like it in Sarasota, Florida, and another similar one in Greenbelt, Maryland.
The reason we were in this store was to find and buy a Linux-compatible PCMCIA modem. The salespeople in this store were just as clueless as the salespeople in equivalent U.S. stores, and there were the same know-it-all geek customers hanging around who offered us advice ranging from smart to useless. But there was one difference. When we wanted to test a modem for Linux compatibility, we found -- courtesy of one of the geek hangers-on -- a laptop running Linux on display, right up front.
As it turned out, we didn't need the physical test, and the modem ran just fine in the Red Hat-loaded laptop where it was destined to live, but the note that stuck with me was the fact that there was a laptop on display in a computer store, right up front, proudly running Linux, and people treated it as something normal, not as an oddity.
It wasn't Red Hat, either, but ThizLinux, a distribution from Hong Kong, which is appropriate since the laptop was a Hong Kong brand I've never seen in the U.S. before.
To top it off, the office suite CDs on display next to the laptop weren't from Microsoft or StarOffice or WordPerfect, but Hancom Office, out of South Korea. And it was an Arabic version, too, something neither StarOffice nor OpenOffice quite have ready.
Hancom makes major promo hay out of their support for many languages in their $59.95 (boxed edition) office suite. Their Web page says, "Chinese (simplified and traditional), Japanese, Arabic, Korean editions and Unicode support mean that Hancom Office is the best solution for companies with offices on multiple continents."
Asia is the next Linux hotbed
Linux, as we know it today, is an essentially European phenomenon. It started in Finland. KDE is centered in Germany and has close ties to Norwegian TrollTech. Mandrake is French, SuSE is German, and European governments have moved toward and supported Linux -- and Open Source in general -- faster than most governments elsewhere. The U.S. is the center of commercial Linux activity primarily because Red Hat and several other major distributions are based here, but most surveys show a higher percentage of European than U.S. developers writing Open Source software.
But a growing number of "next generation" Linux development is taking place in Asian countries, ranging from South Korea at one end of the continent to India diagonally across the continent's map, with China rising hugely -- in the Linux sense -- right in the middle of it all.
Africa and the Middle East are discovering Linux in a big way, but don't have nearly as much computer/IT infrastructure or as much computer-oriented education available as (some parts of) China or India -- or South Korea or Vietnam or Malaysia. Or Japan, where it looks like Linux will soon be adopted as a preload operating system by computer manufacturers on all kinds of gear, not just on the server and workstation levels as we see 99% of the time in the U.S. and Europe.
I see an increasing amount of Linux development and related Open Source activity coming out of Asia, almost all of it in Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and other Asian languages.
I also see an increasing amount of Linux activity coming out of India, most of which is in English rather than in one of the many local Indian languages.
2003: the year of Asian Linux
I rarely make predictions. Heck, I am not all that sure I'll wake up tomorrow morning, let alone that the sun will come out from behind the clouds, assuming we have a cloudy sky tomorrow. But once in a while I let myself go and prognosticate. And this is my one and only NewsForge prognostication about Linux and Open Source in 2003: That some of the biggest advances we're going to see in the next year will come from Asia, not Europe or North America.
Whether we'll recognize how important these advances are (whatever they turn out to be) is another matter entirely. Maybe we will, maybe we won't. But that's a column I need to write at the end of 2003, not today.
What part of "applications" doesn't the press (or many on Slashdot) understand? Are there magically going to appear applications that will compete with the commercial ones? If all you do is browse the web or get e-mail, then yes, Linux is viable. But that is a much smaller market than most advocates want to admit. And even if someone thinks that's all they want, most are not going to go the "oddball" route "just in case".
Once again: people use applications, not operating systems. When Linux gets decent user applications, then it will be viable on the desktop.
P.S. I'm talking about user, desktop application. Please save your comments about server apps or programming languages.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
They'd have to start buying Macs first, and (excluding Japan) that just isn't happening.
--
the strongest word is still the word "free"
In soview Russia, websites slashdot YOU
1995^H^H^H^H
1996^H^H^H^H
1997^H^H^H^H
1998^H^H^H^H
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2000^H^H^H^H
2001^H^H^H^H
2002^H^H^H^H
2003 The Year that Linux takes over the desktop!
Where have I heard this??
Africa and the Middle East are discovering Linux in a big way...
are they discovering suicide bombers with linux laptops now? fuck those middle eastern psychos, ragheads and jews alike!
Although linux is a good operating system i dont think people in that country can jut leave microsoft. I think microsoft has too much of an economic and political and will do there hardest to keep linux down.
disclaimer : I'm an Indian from Bombay.
:-)
I don't see Linux making any significant inroads in the mass computer culture of India.
Most savvy users in India will only pick up a tool if it can be an instrument for economic gain. This is why ofcourse, computer programming and learning it is a big thing in India. Because that's what the 20-something thinks. Learn coding and the world is open to you. The Indian mindset is not exactly open to adopting a culture where the software is free (beer) and support (LOL) is the source of revenue. Which in other words means there is no (or hardly any) revenue !
If someone in India trys out Linux, its because of the geekish 'chic' factor. To expect a group of Indian coders to sit and down and code say, an IDE, give it away for free is fantasy*
*Unless that group is currently in an academic or research institution where they have a stipend or other sources of income.
Note 2: If you're going to counteract that they can sell the product as a shrinkwrap too, then you don't know the Indian software retail market
last I checked.. 2003 is going to be the Year of the Goat
since when was linux an animal?
"The ones who dont do anything are always the ones who try to pull you down" -- Henry Rollins
Redmond is losing power over the Reds!
I see this as a good thing, so long as we can reincorporate the code. How is C programming done in other languages? Are foreign languages/characters supported?
This is an honest question, please don't reply to the Red China comment; it was just a joke, not flamebait.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
While the article would seem like a happy fairy tale for Linux supporters, the cold, hard reality is that Linux is not even known by the large majority of computer users in most parts of Asia... AND this includes the so-called high-potential areas such as China and India.
While companies prefer to stay legit and actually buy licenses for their software (and even this is fairly recent, thanks to the BSA), a large majority of home-based consumers run pirated versions of Windows, and a bunch of pirated application which can be bought at less than US$2 per CD. This is the cold hard truth.
And many Western media report blames the Govt for not doing anything when the fact is that they can't actually properly enforce the rules. The pirates here are true gangsters in the sense of the word... not some pimply faced kid with cable connection and terrabytes of storage like the typical image of software pirate many of you think.
They are backed by armed thugs, scouts that check on police/IP-enforcers, and possibly insiders from the police or even the local BSA branch... yes, really!
And to top it off, they keep the customers happy... Yes, they really do. I find these pirates more approachable than your average MS or Adobe salesperson.
CD not working? No problem, we'll replace it for you... No questions asked.
Two weeks guarantee on any purchased CD.
Recommendation on a better substitute of the app you wanted to buy
With that kind of service it's no wonder people here flock to pirated CD shops than to the legit vendors. Price is one thing, but if you are going to be severely restricted by EULAs and other licensing terms, might as well buy a pirated copy for 1/200 of the price and be happy about it.
From a typical Asian point-of-view, there is no value-added incentive to purchase original CDs.
Back to the topic, while companies (especially SMEs) will embrace Linux because of the money they can save from software licenses. But even so, many of the established businesses will stick to propietry software because it is what they are used to. And these are decided by the bigwigs which have no desire at all to embrace new technologies eventhough it might save them a huge pile of cash. It is in the mindset... not the software itself.
Linux can move forward by becoming more Desktop-centric not just for home users but for corporate users. And it does not need to be free (as in beer)... most companies will invest a suitable amount of cash to improve productivity.
Sorry for the long rant, hope u get my point.
Welley Corporation - SLM Scammers
A plethora of users have demonstrated here that they aren't interested in adopting Linux. They are comfy with what works for them. And since they started out with MS and Windows applications, that's what they like.
The key phrase here is "started out with MS and Windows".
There are literally BILLIONS of potential users who have never become used to Photoshop or Outlook Express or MSIE. This untapped userbase is ripe for the picking and if Linux is there early with an OS that is cheap and applications in their languages then Linux could have a large proportion of those users.
Imagine Asia and Africa populated with computer users who can't see any reason to switch to Microsoft because they are used to what they have; Linux.
No one ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke!
Anyone who has been here for a long time has seen my posts about Thailand, but I'll summarize what's happening here, and it's big.
You see linux desktops and laptops in almost every computer store. All top five domestic brands, including Belta Liberta and Laser ( I can't find a link), use it for their lower models. It is always the same, the National Electronics and Computer Technology (NECTEC) organization of Thailand's own Linux TLE, a Red Hat based distibution that has had Thai language support and translations added to virtually every application.
Since November,the new releases come with version 4.1R2, which is touted as "Professional," and includes OfficeTLE, an OO.o variant which includes such difficult to program features as a Thai word parser, because Thai uses no spaces between words. It, in my opinion, outshines Sun's Pladao Office, which translates as "Starfish." The menus for Pladao are all in Thai, but the OfficeTLE menus are in English. Books for both litter the bookstore shelves in prominant places.
NECTEC also has a venerable serverdistribution, SIS (can't find the link), which stands for School Internet Server, and connects primary, secondary, and tertiary(?) schools to their SchoolNet, a free internet and information sharing operation.
Free Software is kicking here in Thailand.
For other perks, see my sig.
Put identity in the browser.
Let's watch all the idiotic redneck fools who glance briefly at the media provided propoganda. We'll see them noticing China, thinking 'red', then seeing Linux, and thinking 'red'... Ignorance is the biggest obstacle for free software these days. I hope the morons in office don't try to exploit this in a negative manner. As usual, it will probably go unnoticed, and end up meaning absolutely nothing, but, I can't help imagining what horrors could come of it. (I'll let you imagine the good stuff, it's easier)
I read the script, and I think it would help my character's motivation if he was on fire. -Bender
proclaiming "2xxx is the year of linux!"
The cult just isn't big enough yet?
osx post... check
gentoo post... It'll be here
with China rising hugely -- in the Linux sense -- right in the middle of it all.
:)
:)
Right on. Look at RedFlag Linux. It's backed by China Government, RedHat-based Linux distro.
In my opinion, China Government is no much an Open Source advocate, instead, MS forced them to take this path. I got some underground news when I worked for IBM around 94, when we completed each other developing a Chinese OS for Mainland China. The progress of the development our Chinese OS/2 was not as fast as Windows 95 because they outsourced their work to Taiwan and we've put comparatively too much effort on testing(I were one of the full-time tester in Asian region).
That was the biggest mistake MS has ever made.
As usual, MS pushed their first release of Simplified Chinese version of Win95 before thorough testing. To China Government dismay, they found that whenever they type the word 'Kung'(the first word of Communism in Chinese), the association helper immediate popup the word 'bandit' after it. 'Communist Bandit' is how Taiwanese called Communist party in Mainland China.
That was a really good prank the Taiwanese Developers made for China Government.
I've also been told that there's still a couple of nasty easter eggs hidden in this first release of OS(or Word/Excel?) that made fun of some lead people in communist party, that pissed them very much. Although MS had done everything to 'repair' the damage, but as a common practise of them "this shall not be forgiven."
RedFlag Linux may be the first major getback on MS.
It unties the potentially tied-behind-back hands of Asian countries who have rampant pirating issues of Microsoft products. If free OSes become a hit in Asia, Gates can not eventually have Asia in his back pocket when he comes calling for Licensing Fees, and Asia gets to save tons of money with not having to pay for Windows & Upgrades, which eventually puts them on an equal footing with Western countries, so more competition, so on so on.... advantage? Everyone.
SecondPageMedia - Wha
Many of these Asian countries are part of the axis of evil, and will stop at nothing to destroy everything good the West stands for. I urge all geeks to be responsible and not let their efforts unwittingly aid terrorism or the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. Thank you.
George W. Bush
President, United States of America
I rarely make predictions. Heck, I am not all that sure I'll wake up tomorrow morning,
Spoke like a true white guy running around the streets of Jordan.
Since years are normally named after a species of animal (normaly excluding humans) perhaps it would be more appropriatly named:
"The Year of the Penguin"
Im not here now... Im out KILLING pepperoni
Intels/Microsofts suicide is going to come through Asia. Here is the scenario as I see it. M$ is going to try to push Palladium, along with Intel's secure initiatives, etc, etc. The American bullsh^H^H^H^H^H^Hcontent industry is going to back them all the way to protect their formerly very protected market. So then with the Dragon whatever chip and Linux, China is going to pump out machines that don't screw up if you change your video card, screw up your screen captures, require you to call if you re-install XP on your test system every GOD DAMN TIME, (Yes, I need to clone a HD, just haven't had time and keep shuffling machines around, and etc, etc...), and so on, as any secure initiative will do. So they will be producing these cheap, commodified PCs that will ship over here, therefore killing the American software industry. Yeah China. The other alternative I see is Apple, who has been very successful at telling the content industry to bugger off, and is large enough to back it. They could become the competetor to Linux through all this mess. I don't know why I'm posting on /. so much today. Hell, I guess the ideas whispered to me by my imaginary penguin have some merit. Just wish he'd stop nibbling on my toes.
I'm sure the truly clueful hackers in China already know and use BSD, just like here. Chinux will function as a grease trap to keep zitpoppers and political protesters from getting in the way... just like here.
PS Ignore Neal Stephenson; there ARE Chinese hackers. He leaves a trail of greatly amused people everywhere he does research. "One day on site and he knew everything and was ready to move on. I hear he wrote a program once."
informative, man!!!!
Why is it so hard to believe that the President reads slashdot? He does read, you know. He read, ummm, Nichomachean Ethics once.
I'm quite serious about this, and there's actually a link: It's easier to adopt a better system (OS or measurement units) when you don't have to incurr horrifically high conversion costs.
As much as I'd like to see Linux grab 30 or 40% of the US desktop marketshare, it just won't happen. The open/free software crowd won't (not can't, but won't) do the things necessary to overcome those high conversion costs for users deeply entrenched in Windows.
For a much more detailed version, see
this.
I say that not just because of pricing themselves out of the labor market, with Asian and other labor forces offering cheaper labor. The truth also includes cheaper *methods* which Linux is a part of, long term. Higher costs imposed my closed source and proprietary (read: Microsoft) operating systems and application software will cause higher prices for those who choose them. This making Asian markets that choose Linux even *more* competitive down the road.
Faux pas for replying to myself, but I want to apologize that there are really no English web pages to read, and that all the links were in Thai, but, hey, This is Thailand (TIT), and the English here is really poor, which is what keeps me in business. :) If you get really tired of having (or not having) a job in IT, and can differentiate there and their, look us up over here.
Put identity in the browser.
the year of Linux in Chechnya maybe, but I think the Chechens also value money and property more than the Linux heads
Oh come on, it's okay if you want to use Windows; that's your choice. But at least be honest about why you want to use it.
I'm just tired of the herd telling the rest of us what we have to do to get them to "buy" (i.e. download i.e freeload) Linux. It's bullshit excuses coming from people who just don't want to change, no matter what alternative they're presented with.
It's okay, I understand that it's a hard thing to change your OS. I mean, the buttons work differently and hell, there's not even a "Start" button to tell you where to start.
Really, these are the same kind of lame excuses that are presented every time someone talks about switching to a Mac ("oh, it only got one mouse button!!!!" or, "I can not run all my game on it!!!!" and my personal favorite, "it 2 expensive!!!!"). If you ever talk to one of these people, you'll hear all the same, stupid arguments that have been refuted a thousand times before. You might as well talk to a tape-recorder.
It doesn't matter what you say to these people, what kind of reasons you can give for switching, they will use some kind of see-through excuse for not doing it. And in the end, you know it's just because they're too lazy or too scared to try something different.
I'll put my money on *nix systems pervasive on business desktop systems by the end of the decade. I'll buy you a beer if Microsoft doesn't hold a place somewhat similar to Novell (hell, I'll buy a round for everyone if they do). We'll all remember Microsoft simply as another legacy of bad long-term business decisions made for the sake of short-term growth.
After the herd starts using it at work, becomes comfortable with it, and develops a *nix habit will regular people start seeking out *nix systems for home use.
Notes From Under *nix: blas.phemo.us
The really rough part here is that it's not something I can describe adequately to you here. Oh, I could probably list off a stack of features that Windows simply can't do, but it wouldn't mean anything to you. It only has value or meaning when you get there yourself.
All that's assuming you can get past the app naming conventions. You can, can't you?
"I can't give you any good reasons to switch, but I can certainly belittle your reasons for not having done so already."
Tonight Microsoft stock is safer than U.S. currency. Keep it up.
bub.
It's written OS X.
just ask RMS.
bd6.
"about traveling to a magical country where seeing Linux laptops displayed
in stores is perfectly normal."
or dead lizards, or chicken heads, and lets not forget centipieds
IBM will soon join HP(Compaq) in selling Linux pre-loaded PCs in India.
For details, read the story on ZDNetIndia IBM mulls Linux for its PCs
and before I forget, I had a dream last night. I talked to Bill Gates and he said "I am getting really tired of these antitrust cases. I am moving to India to become a monk"....
With Linux, when there's a new version of The Gimp, I go download it, for free. When there's a new version of Blender out, I go download it, for free. When there's a new major kernel version or X Free86 version, I go download it, for free.
Or, if you're lazy like most people, you can buy the latest version of your distro of choice for roughly $50($5 from cheapbytes, free from linuxiso.org) and you can upgrade all your software in one shot.
Compare that to windows or mac os, where you would be spending several thousand dollars for what is essentially incremental upgrades for all the software products you mentioned.
And then there is also licensing issues, the BSA, builtin backdoors, software shipped containing viruses(has happened several times in major proprietary software), etc.
There are downsides though. The Gimp is inferior to Photoshop in some areas(although far fewer than many assume), free *nices lack decent WYSIWYG DTP software(this is getting closer...), etc.
Whatever the pros and cons, there is already plenty of "interesting" software for GNU/Linux/BSD, you just need to educate yourself. There are also quite a few games available for Linux now, and some windows games run flawlessly in wine(x)(all politics aside). 2 years ago I installed win95(2k? forget...) to play some games, but ended up not even needing it at all.
All that said, you seem pretty content with your rig, so I see no reason for you to switch at this point. Myself, I will continue to enjoy my savings and freedom.
Cheers.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
It'll be interesting to see how much the Asian community gives back. I'm betting on a "Use someone elses work and make money" policy.
What's my Karma Mr. Burns? "Excellent"
IBM will soon join HP(Compaq) in selling Linux pre-loaded PCs in India.
/. He said "Slashdot is now really beginning to corrupt the mindsets of Indian techies. They are now swamping slastdot website like Americans do at 6-9am Thanksgiving sales!!"
For details, read the story on ZDNetIndia IBM mulls Linux for its PCs
and before I forget, I had a dream last night. I talked to Bill Gates and he said "I am getting really tired of these antitrust cases. I am moving to India to become a monk!"....
Later in conversation, Bill Gates seemed concerned with Indians hitting
i feel this is the #1 reason why the linux desktop has to be a true alternative, not simply an attempt at carbon copying windows.
Having read the article thoroughly, this startling news shows the flaws in the brewing Open Source Zeitgeist that is gripping the software community. Have you considered that providing software for free to countries such as China is essentially tacit support for oppressive regimes?
Far-fetched? Think about it: With MySQL, the People's Army will now be able to do multiple queries on their tables of democratic activists in Olog(n) time instead of lengthy searches in card catalogs. The bureaucratic overhead previously allowed activists enough time to flee the country. How about building cheap firewalls so the people can't get the unbiased reporting that CNN provides? Or using Apache to publish lists of Falun Gong people to their police forces instantly? I doubt that never crossed your minds when you were coding away in your parents' basements. Consider putting that little thought in your mental resolv.conf file.
If that does not concern you ( which it probably doesn't, since the slashdot.org paradigm is publishing articles about how not to pay for things ), consider something else. When China eventually goes to war with Taiwan, we want to be able turn their command and control facilities into the computing equivalent of a train-wreck. One of the advantages of Windows never mentioned in the article is the ability of Microsoft to remotely deactivate Windows XP in the case of a national emergency. Thanks to GNU/Lunix, Taiwan will be on a collision course with the mainland in the near future.
Which throws into question Mr. Stallman's motives. A known proponent of socialism, the Chinese government and RMS are natural allies. Could it be a back door to Stallman's dream of an über-Socialist United States? We may never know for sure. Next time you consider contributing to an open source project, ask yourself this question: don't you want to make sure your work isn't used for nefarious purposes? Will you risk having blood on your hands?
Not to sound like a troll, but 1985 -> 2003 == The year of Windows in more than one country. nice try, linux.
I'm a user of many systems, and I refuse to get into the holy war territory.
However, there is one thing that bugs me, that I can do with Linux, but not with Windows.
I would like the Framebuffer console; let's say, the 160x64 console, and let's say, maybe 5 or 8 virtual consoles, maybe running screen with cygwin bash. This is my standard terminal, it is my *favorite* video mode among all the options available to me, and it appears to be altogether IMPOSSIBLE in windows.
Don't talk to me about fonts and terminal windows in win2k; it is not the same. You can get some nice things there, but, I cannot get the equivalent of the linux console. And I really want this.
It doesn't have to be the framebuffer device, per se, but it definitely needs the same font options, and absolutely needs to equal or exceed the speed of the native console. NO WIN2K TERMINAL COMES CLOSE to the speed of the linux console.
This is the first item on the list of things that keeps me running linux on my main computer, as a matter of fact. It's my first requirement!
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
Why can't we be satisfied with being a niche market where Linux's main purpose is the server, embedded, and renderfarm markets? Why must we be so intent on taking over the desktop market? I really don't mind being one of only 20 million people using for their desktop, really. It really doesn't bother me, as I'm sure it doesn't bother other people either. Sure, Microsoft can be evil, but their hold on the desktop market isn't necessarily a bad thing. We should put our strength into defending the markets we know we can hold (namely the ones I've mentioned), and defend those furiously. No empire lasts forever, neither shall Microsoft's. They will make a mistake big enough for everyone to switch. We just need to be patient. There is no need to rush foolhardy into bringing them down.
// file: mice.h
#include "frickin_lasers.h"
In Linux everywhere, to keep this on topic, there is one application that I truly miss: 2D Vector Illustration like Adobe Illustrator or Macromedia freehand. I find it funny that everyone always talks about Photoshop vs. GIMP where most illustrators use Photoshop AND and illustration programme.
I've used the GIMP and I know that in a pinch I could very well manage with it and use other tools to convert to CMYK for printing. The lack of bicubic extrapolation in the GIMP does force one to be more careful in image scaling though. But what about illustration?
I've seen some efforts on Freshmeat and Sourceforge involving SVG, but none of these provide decent anti-aliasing of vector lines which has become pretty much of a must these days. It's also kind of ironic that Adobe is the only one which provides a useful SVG viewer.
Itis a niche market but attention to details like this in the GIMP and a vector illustration programme would move some more people into considering Linux or OSS.
You seem to be confused between the two issues of:
- People using Linux and
- People deveoping for Linux
None of your points about profiting by doing something hold good when it comes to _using_ Linux. Once Microsoft starts cracking down on piracy, people are going to move largescale to linux. Remember that the unbranded PC market is still much larger (as it should be) than the sales of compaq and IBM. And Microsoft cant preload their OSes on those.
In my experience it's college freshers and people from a totally different industry altogether who make such blanket statements like "Linux will never take off in India". Get a clue. It's bigger than you think.
I was reading something on the rumour mill saying that Macromedia will have a Lonux port of their next release of their design studio. It will be nice to see more commercial software being released, thus bring ing about the year of the penguin. :) Although all of this stuff if coming down the pike, it's not here yet, and it's my opinion (ya opinions are like @$$holes) that when it does, Linux will finally make it to the desktops of more than just the geeks/nerds.
:)
I can't wait for that day to come
Happy New Year
Have you tried Sodipodi? It's vector drawing program that reads and writes an SVG dialect. I'm pretty sure it uses an AA canvas. It's also under active development.
Han-Wen Nienhuys -- LilyPond
It's nice to think we all have your approval.
You're intentionally misconstruing my words to appear condescending. I was in no way giving "approval"; that's fucking ridiculous...
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Where the fuck did I say it was "unacceptable"? It's no such thing; it's completely dependent on the person using it, their style, and technique. For me, it's far superior to Photoshop.
Smells like FUD to me. I don't know what you mean by "licensing issues." The BSA is of no concern to companies that actually pay for all of their software.
$#@#$%#%!!! Have you not read anything about the BSA? Have you not seen examples where they have extorted millions upon millions of dollars for extremely simple unintentional infringements?
You sir, are the one full of FUD. The only way to be safe from the BSA is to have full site licenses of all the software used in your organization, because software licensing can become extremely complicated and difficult to administer in practice that it becomes absolutely impossible to handle on a large scale.
Currently the BSA is harrassing the company I work for, even though we have absolutely no software contracts that give them any right to audit us. They keep trying to get non-technical persons in the company to install auditing software on the network!
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Well, how does IBM, SUN &co make there money, I don't think it's through direct sales of hardware and software, more like support.
Which is probably why Sun and IBM are starting to cuddle upto OSS, they never made much money from software in the first place.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
because there are counterparts for Linux, but you don't want to be convinced.
Yeah, like 'vi' is a counterpart for "Word".
A crappy, poor counterpart does not count as a counterpart. I'm willing to be convinced, but people like you are convinced that since you are satisfied a poor implementation of something, then no one needs a fully-featured one. When you're willing to take the blinders off, maybe there is a discussion to be had.
That Linux is going to make any headway because it's going to be adopted by India. Why? More and more US companies are moving operations to India and these companies run what on the desktop? That's right Windows.
Pakkret, Thailand has a school using Linux and the case study is found here:
http://k12ltsp.org/casestudy.html
If K12Ltsp.org concept takes off in the schools then you will see it happen (as it all starts with the young mind that takes home the new knowledge)!
Linux this linux that, you don't have linux, you have that other demon doom demon thing. WTF?
BSD is better than linux in all the areas that count I point you to exibit a:MacOS, exibit c-e ___ BSD,F BSDI,G Sun(Nuf said), Yahoo, Microsoft, Pixar
Hello, Just cause the purty girls dig it does not make it better...
By harassing, I mean they are trying to get non-technical employees to audit our fucking network without the permission of the technical staff, the management, etc. They blatantly lie in their form letters about the "dangers" of pirated software, and they attempt to trick people into believing that they are some kind of authority and are authorized to audit whoever they choose whenever they want, even when there is no contract that gives them any rights at all. They show up at businesses and talk employees into letting them in the door, even attempting to fool said employees about who they are. If you do not absolutely hate them; you most likely have not seen their "evil" side, as most persons, organizations, and governments who ever have to deal with them end up despising them. There are numerous stories on /. and other sites regarding dubious behavior from the BSA, why do you choose to ignore it? Because they have caused _you_ no harm?
There have been countless examples of this type of bullshit, but you choose to ignore it. The Gimp is better than Photoshop for _me_, but you choose to ignore that. You are simply an anti-linux biggot; you are no different the the Linux biggots you seem to despise. You seem to believe that everyone who chooses Linux is some type of zealot, but that is patently false. Most companies and persons who switched to Linux do so for entirely pragmatic reasons! IBM, SFX studios, many governments, etc. These organizations are _purely_ pragmatic, yet they chose Linux.
As for myself, I dislike Microsoft because of their business practices, their stranglehold on many separate markets, and their dealings with publicly funded schools and universities that are of dubious legality; I am open and up-front about that. I *love* Mac OSX, because it is a good OS, althought I do dislike the company and the personalities behind the company. But for me, Linux is better, technically, and I have the freedom I need to use it as I wish. I am no zealot, I simply _choose_ Linux, because it has many good uses which are of use to myself and many others. But while it's the best choice for me, OS X was the best choice for my brother, which I let him decide after showing him Windows PCs, Linux, and iMacs. I didn't try to push him to use Linux, because it would not have suited him, and I wanted him to choose for himself. But, I was very pleased that he chose a system that was technically superior to Windows in many ways...
You continue to pretend that you are fair and some type of voice of reason, but you continually show your own biases. You ignore any argument you can't refute, and shift argumentation to minor details that you are comfortable arguing over. You pretend that Linux users are some type of mass blob all with the same agenda, and with the same arguments and same opinions; hence your fucking retarded argument that, "You didn't; this guy did". THAT GUY IS NOT ME!! The Gimp is not an inferior product, it is simply a different product, in _my_ opinion, yet you use someone else's opinion against me, WHAT THE FUCK? It is at least worth looking at for most people who use Photoshop. But you ignore that and simply argue that Linux is inferior, without any real reasoning behind it.
You constantly use stawmen in your argumentation; I noted several in our last discourse, but I gave up arguing with you because you kept shifting the argument to points that you were comfortable arguing, even if they were totally orthogonal!
Ok, whew! I am calming down now ;-) I am through with arguing with you for now, but I would like you to note just a few things.
1. I have marked you as a "foe", this is not because I personally dislike you, it is simply because you are a political adversary. I think your politics are extremely dangerous for the future of society, especially in this new-fangled information age.
2. I do not personally dislike you. IRL, I would most likely get along with you fine. I really like your taste in entertainment; particularly, I think Firefly is the best new show in years, and you seemed to be a big fan yourself. While many /.ers were saying the Firefly was "boring" and "slow", you thought it was at least interesting. So I can assume at least that you are not just another MTV-ified A.D.D. moron.
3. So please, do not take anything I say _too_ personally. My ranting and raving is entirely the result of anger and frustration.
Now, dropping this whole argument, I would like to ask you a question. Do you know if Firefly has been cancelled? It appears to be off the air for now, do you know what is up? My wife and I enjoy the show, it's something good to watch when we've got nothing else to do on a Friday night, which has been too often of late.
Cheers.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Apparently, google thinks that Slashdot is now a legitimate source of news. Scarry.
I wonder if Google will start mis-spelling and dupe posting now?
vi, no. Maybe emacs, though. Hell, emacs is a counterpart for a whole OS when it's got enough plugins installed. It has a GUI interface if you really must have all your clickey buttons, too. I've also used Hancom Office, Star Office and Open Office. All of these had all the features I needed. Does that make them fully-featured?
...or is it when something has all the exact same features of what YOU have grown accustomed to, right down to the same button locations and keyboard shortcuts?
If not, what makes something fully-featured? When it has all the features of Corel WordPerfect? That would make MS Word less than fully-featured. Is it when something has all the features of MS Word? That would make Corel WordPerfect less than fully-featured.
A crappy, poor counterpart does not count as a counterpart. When you're willing to take the blinders off, maybe there is a discussion to be had.
I don't know how you can live in a glass house like that. It'd drive me nuts not being able to draw some shades and sleep 'till noon on a Saturday.
That's quite a shame about Firefly, but unsurprising given Fox's record of killing good shows. I don't watch much T.V., but that was a good show. Thanks for giving me the bad news...
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
> > Other than the fact Linux has a cool name, could someone explain why I
> > should use Linux over BSD?
>
> No. That's it. The cool name, that is. We worked very hard on
> creating a name that would appeal to the majority of people, and it
> certainly paid off: thousands of people are using linux just to be able
> to say "OS/2? Hah. I've got Linux. What a cool name". 386BSD made the
> mistake of putting a lot of numbers and weird abbreviations into the
> name, and is scaring away a lot of people just because it sounds too
> technical.
-- Linus Torvalds' follow-up to a question about Linux
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