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Neverwinter Nights Update
nyquil superstar writes "Just thought everyone might like to know, there are a whole bunch of updates at Bioware's NWN Linux Client Page. Includes goodies like the timing of future releases and betas, how to install the Linux client and future(!) expansions, and updates on the movies and sound issues. The quick version: sound is in and they will release a Linux client before they integrate a movie player. Oh, and you'll need to download the game's resource data or use a Windows install, the CD is only good for the reg. key and Windows install. Good news though, because it sounds like it's getting close."
Finally! It's getting closer to a great release and a milestone in linux gaming.
;)
Hopefully more companies will follow bioware's example. Give the distributors the windows games, give the community the linux patch
-- Would it be acceptable to just put my name on my sig?
Once gnu/hurd actually supports a graphics card better than 80x25 text mode!
Until Linux has superior speed, drivers and ease of use, it will remain as a server based OS, and not as a Gaming OS.
Seems to me it is the games that are needed to make Linux a gaming OS.
-jfedor
I have been playing the NWN client on windows 2000 since last summer. It is stable (as much as nwn can be for it being nwn) and runs great for hours at a time. The win32 server also has stayed up for 12 hours at a time before needing a reboot (this is good for a nwn server).
This might be a big step for linux gameing but it is still not that big of a deal. Anyone who is serious about NWN should just stick to the windows version like the rest of the serious gamers in the world.
*hides from the flaming cows that are about to be shot at him*
As a Windows user, I can't wait for the Linux Client to come out for NWN. I want the added people out there, scripting modules, writing content and playing the game. God knows I'm sick of a bunch of little 733T hacker brats on there. Some games are fun, but I've been waiting for the chance to go up against some other people. Hopefully that isn't flameworthy, but if you've played it online, you know what I mean.
This game is the one that will actually get Linux Gaming off the ground. It removes the need for an emulator or middle-run to get it working, and is one of the biggest games in recent memory. If we saw some of the other big guns, like Blizzard and EA doing this, there would be a lot more solid development on the gaming front.
Since Bioware already will have the linux base installed, and the NWN engine is the core of their future RPG games, this looks well for the Linux community. Now if only they would start releasing the stuff out of box like this...
The vast majority of Gamers use Windows because it has better graphics drivers, better hardware support and its easier to install and set games up.
They use Windows because they don't have much choice, not necissarily because of a better driver base. Most Windows drivers are updated more frequently, but that's because of the distribution of the market.
What is true is that DirectX is the API of choice for game makers, but for a reason. The development of higher level graphics processes and Shader development for the OpenGL 2.0 specification has been rather slow, and no where near the specification and performance of DX. But that is changing slowly.
Linux is just easier to use on the graphics front, with display properties tweaking and things like NView and the ATi Control Panel, but given time, you'll see similar functions appear in Linux (if they're not already there).
And the reason is for making conversions? Money. Linux is also a desktop OS, for most of the people that read here, for example. Those people like to play games too (or so I'd assume), and would purchase games they can play. More people playing the game on different OS's, especially for a user-content driven game like Neverwinter Nights is a good thing.
And the speed thing is debateable. The actual Graphics Driver speed that is gained by running Windows can be offset by the efficient memory utilization and processing streamlining of Linux. I'd be willing to bet that the low-end specs for NWN would be a lot more friendly on a Linux Box than a Windows box, if for nothing else other than the ability to strip what's running in the background.
Probably not. However, it appears Bioware are pressing ahead (and doing it inhouse) because they are a games company that wants to be around in the long run, and stay one step ahead of its competitors. Writing portable code isn't something that comes as second nature to most Windows coders, least of all games coders, but they clearly think (correctly) that Linux is going to be a force in the long run on the desktop.
By teaching themselves the ins and outs of porting games, they've learned (the hard way it seems) that portability has to be a concern from the beginning. Using SDL isn't hard, but it makes porting so much easier it's untrue. Make sure any 3rd party engines you use will run on other platforms or are easily made portable. And so on.
I think it's telling they outsourced the porting of the Mac client, but kept the Linux port in house. They could have easily hired LGP for instance to port it, or done what was done for Unreal Tournament and get a freelancer in, but they didn't. That makes me think they value the experience and want to keep it internal to the company. Assuming BioWare stick around, I'd expect to see more Linux ports in future.
The Linux client would require you to have a Windows install or download all the games data because the files are in .cab format, there is however a .cab file extractor for linux. Would this work and why doesn't Bioware do somthing similar to the installer. It could be that .cab files were created by microsoft.
The linux cam extractor is at http://www.kyz.uklinux.net/cabextract.php3
cat
I can only say that if the Linux users are missing the movies until they get that part included, they aren't missing much. I didn't find the movies very necessary for the storyline. They pretty much only tell what happens as a consequence of the previous Chapter you completed, which isn't hard to figure out by yourself. Also, the movies consists of still pictures that fade in/out, are zoomed into, etc. You aren't exactly missing any movies of "Blizzard quality". This was kind of an anticlimax to me since the *intro* movie is decent, but the inter-chapter movies are of a very different quality. :-/
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
It really seems like Bioware is 'forest-gumping' their way through this project.
I'm not a programmer, but this seems like such an easy task. They have the engine, the art, and the interfaces. The engine should be good to go. The movies should be re-encoded into another format that plays natively in Windows and Linux. The interface should use wrappers.
Hell, even the wankers using WineX have been running NWN for a while.
This should be a lesson for future projects. Don't try and bolt on functionality that was never intended. Either do it right (cross platform) from the start, or not at all.
I'd rather you do it wrong, than for me to have to do it at all.
"You will have to purchase a copy of the game to get a valid Neverwinter Nights CD-Key. Of course, with this purchase you also get a lovely Neverwinter Nights mapkin, a spiral-bound game manual, and three plastic-coated aluminum-reinforced W1nd0z3 brand coasters." Never expected that from the bioware guys =] but a nice touch all the same
Linux isn't exactly an OS built for games, otherwise there would be a lot more titles available.
I think you're jumping to the wrong conclusion there. Linux has a smaller market share then Windows, so when a game company has $X in resources and that will only cover development for one platform, the often focus on the one with the biggest potential for sales - Windows simply because there are more people with it.
Linux is gaining share, and I'm starting to see a shelf in my local computer store for Linux games. People start buying more of them, it will become more profitable to make them, and more will come out.
It's market factors, not any inherent limitation in the OS.
Cheers,
=Blue(23)
LITTLE GIRL: But which cookie will you eat FIRST? C. MONSTER: Me think you have misconception of cookie-eating process.
im a gamer and main reason i dont use linux is the lack of games nothing to do with hardware soon as alot of companies start making linux versions of there games ill switch from windows without a second thought
A battle.net hosted d2 world (even with the occasional cheating bugs, which I don't persue at least), is far more challenging. Running a hardcore character that you have had for months and gone through hell with (puns intended) just has far more of a rush and satisfaction (for me at least). If my character dies, it's permanent, and I've suffered a real loss. Death has meaning, and death sucks. It's great!
That must be it, because why else do I waste so much time on an aging game, running the same quests and acts over and over and over again... I don't get it personally, and I guess neither did those two Asians that dropped dead after playing D2 non-stop for more than a day.
(At least I understand my condition well enough to stay away from worlds where I have to pay to play, like Evercrack. If battle.net charged, that would finally cure me....)
This is the kind of in-depth update we have been waiting for. Bioware I think is learning that detailed information into the development process is actually appealing to the Linux community, whereas for windows users it's typically been vague like alpha, beta, almost gold, etc.
It's been interesting that they have been watching the Linux threads a bit, and our input has been helping. Eg, when they were talking about mouse issues, we informed them that it is up to the distribution/xfree configuration to set up a mouse properly, and they could safely ignore that within NWN.
I hope from here that Bioware development for Linux will grow to work more hand in hand with the willing and eager Linux community, rather than the little information they previously gave. A progression from silence to this latest release has been clear. Perhaps if they decide to port the toolset too they will be even more open and we'll be able to help them quicker!
Either way, I can't wait to play this game under Linux.
And for those who don't know - they previously anounced that Bink (movies) and Miles (sound) were available for Linux when they thought they weren't. They later discovered there was no Bink for Linux, and that is why movies don't work.
Superior drivers?
How about the fact that NVidia's drivers for Linux are at least on a par with the Windows ones? They're slightly faster in some benchmarks, slghtly slower in others - over all, pretty much the same.
Besides, superior drivers or not, what we have with Linux is a Catch-22 situation. No-one will use it because their favourite games and apps aren't being released for it. On the other hand, no-one will write such things for it because no-one is using it.(Yes, I'm ignoring questions about perceived ease of installation and use, etc)
If by "Windows is better for games" you mean "there are more games available for Windows", then yes, that's true. If you mean that Windows has a broader range of supported hardware as far as games is concerned, then yes, that's true. If you mean that Linux is fundamentally too slow, or it's too hard to install games under Linux, then all I can say is that you've never played UT, Q3, etc on a machine with an NVidia card and drivers installed. Easy to install, and just as fast (qualitatively) as the Windows versions.
Fundamentally, the reason that (commercial) games aren't released for Linux is three-fold: lack of userbase, lack of good hardware support, fragmentation of distributions. These reasons are all very much inter-related.
It's official. Most of you are morons.
I'm a little disappointed but it will be nice to finally be able to play the game.
too little, too late
You are mistaken about the porting of the Mac Client. Bioware are doing it in house and it is as near to release as the Linux client. They showed some footage of it running on demo machines at MWSF.
http://nwn.bioware.com/downloads/movies.html
It was only the Mac Toolset that got sent to a porting house (supposedly The Omni Group). But the original application was created in Borland's RAD environment and TOG estimated a year to port it.
Macsoft, Bioware's publisher for the Mac version, said this was longer than they were prepared to invest in a port of the toolset and canned it.
Lots of drama and politics involved. Very disappointing.
If you are a Mac user and want to read more check out Bioware's Mac updates page:
http://nwn.bioware.com/about/macversion.html
Oh, and you'll need to download the game's resource data or use a Windows install, the CD is only good for the reg. key
Well the reg key is on the book, so if that's the only reason to buy it then Bioware is about to flop on this. This just sounds to a regular person like you have to d/l about two disks worth of stuff-if you only use linux, or just do a mass amount of file moving from one partition to the other. Plus some extra little tweaks. This sounds very messy and poorly thought out. At least UT2k3 was simple, as was quake3, RtCW, and I am sure Doom III will be easy too. So what in the heck was the set back? Poor management that just thought at the last moment that it would be "kewl" to make it for the top three OS's out there? I bought the game and run it on Windows, if I have to go through a bunch of install crap to get it running under Linux, then I'
ll just keep it on windows. Don't give me that crap that I'm not supporting Linux game noise. I do support it but if I have to copy this, tweak that, and download this; then I would rather keep playing the version I have on Windows that is already updated, besides I can use the tools set-unlike Linux where you have to tweak wine or winex a few twists to get it running.
This SIG pulled due to lack of funding. (This damn war is costing too much!)
They really ought to be able to find programs which extract the data off the CDs. I don't know what the format is, but there's a good chance it's installshield or some such. i5comp and i6comp, which are installshield extractors, come with source and run under wine. hwun would do the same for WISE, and of course there's cabextract for the Microsoft .cab formats.
I also think that if they're going to distribute a version that doesn't yet have Bink working (movie player), they ought to call it a beta, not a release version.
For multiplayer games like this, I like to play along with my gaming friends. They all bought NWN when it came out, played the hell out of it, and now they don't play it so often. So if I buy it now, I'm playing alone.
Even though the game looks promising, I'll give it a miss.
1) NWN WAS cross platform from the beginning. I'm not sure where it got hung up, but most of the linux code was in there from the start. Same with the Mac code.
2) The port was not done by some intern. Not only do we not hire interns at Bioware, but the guy doing it is quite a competent programmer. Unfortunately, he was also the victim of having a lot on his plate from being such a good programmer.
3) Only the toolset was sent to an outside company to port it. Mac development is otherwise done in house. It's too bad about the toolset. It really is quite good.
4) I'm sure the client will work fine when we release it. I don't think that Bioware is noticed for our shoddy products. This is a big game. We had to delay it a bunch when we released the windows version. Quality takes time.
I'm not really in the habit of defending the company I work for from Anonymous Trol^H^H^H^HCowards, but you really don't know what you're talking about.
At that time, all the features promised by DirectPlay, such as master host failover, reliable datagrams, etc. simply were missing or did not work in catastrophic ways (like crashing Windows 98 hard, for example.) At the end of the day, one ended up writing all the code one would for a sockets implementation, but with the added feature of not being able to communicate with any non-Windows machine.
DirectPlay then was a broken 'solution' in search of a problem. Sadly many developers (including ourselves at the time!) were suckered in, and used it regardless.
Given that NWN was supposed to be cross-platform, I can only presume that they did not use DirectPlay for their networking. Even if it were not meant to be cross-platform, it probably would have been a good idea to steer clear of DirectPlay.
Would unfortunately go out of business before getting to start on the Windows port of their game. While there are a large number of Linux users out there, there simply isn't the same number of Linux gamers as there are Windows Gamers.
Game support under Linux is unfortunately sub-par. From the feel of games like Quake III to the lateness of games arriving, like NWN. It isn't always the developers fault. There just aren't all that many great and very powerful game development API kits available on Linux that are as robust as the ones available on Windows.
Part of that is the lackluster Linux gaming community. If the Linux Gaming Community took it upon itself to buy the Linux versions of games released by Loki, instead of whining about the games Loki released, or simply whining about how no publishers are releasing Linux games. Well, Loki would probably still be in business (Even with the bad book-keeping I had read something about...) and perhaps a few more companies would be out there supporting Linux games and producing Linux games.
If some company announced that they were releasing a game for Linux, even if it isn't something I generally like to play, I would buy it. Simply because I wish to see Linux move into the home entertainment realm, instead of conceding that segment of computing to Microsoft.
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
The problem is that until there are good Linux games, Linux users aren't going to take the platform seriously. Until the Linux users take the platform seriously, there will be no developers working on games for it.
Generally speaking people who have Linux also have a windows computer around. The deeper a person is into gaming the greater the chance that they'll have Windows as at least a dual-boot option. I know very few people who run Linux exclusively and none of them are heavy gamers.
I've begun to think that the only thing that has the potential to bring the Linux platform into a better gaming position is a community effort to produce something truly unique for Linux. Independent developers, as you point out, cannot afford such a plan. Big developers aren't willing to take the risk. So in the end it may just need to be a collective of interested geeks hacking away. Of course that's how Linux came to be what it is, so I suppose that'd be an appropriate way for it to become a gaming platform.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
Though a little unpopular with the politial types, winex really works. I'm running SuSE Linux and currently have the following (windows) games installed:
- Diablo II
- Warcraft II
- Starcraft
- Deus Ex
- Icewind Dale
Of course, that's not counting native Linux games like UT, Quake 3, Tribes 2, Ultima 7, Heretic II..It may take a little more tweaking and technical know how to be a Linux gamer, but it comes with the territory.
I dont see why he's been modded up apart from some Linux zealot being biased.
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