Slashdot Mirror
Ants... In... Space
Ant writes "The Fowler students picked an experiment with ants, rather than plants, because they wanted to see some activity in space. They have been following the ants' progress on the web. The students and their teachers also have learned that sometimes the best thought-out hypothesis does not pan out in reality. 'We predicted that the ants would tunnel a lot slower in microgravity, but we're finding out they're moving a lot faster,' said Golash. The students have a control group of ants at their school, living in a similar environment except with gravity. After the shuttle returns from its scheduled 16-day flight in early February, the young scientists will have 30 days to put together a preliminary report. Their "Ants in Space" experiment was sponsored by SPACEHAB, an aerospace company that has worked with NASA for many years to design and build hardware for space experiments."
How can they lift anything in microgravity?
Can they sort tiny screws?
Ants in space, pigs in zen. What's the world coming to?
What's next, SimAnts in Space?
The ending to Ender's Game came to mind when I read this. Creepy.
YOU all look like ants!!!
Duplicate
If the shuttle crashes during re-entry, they can blame it on a bug in the system?
When we learn to harness the yet untapped power of the insect world, this research will make us the clear leaders in space technology.
Damn...to late.
... where it was? It was on this really cool news site for nerd on stuff that matters... it was.. ... wait it was here! ;>
The Sig, the sig
Because things don't weigh much. (The things are also in microgravity...)
I can never tell if people are joking.
Ownyourphone.com. Custom ringtones, cheap and easy
I wonder if it would even be possible for an ant to build a hive in low or no gravity situations. Maybe someone who passed physics can tell me if I'm wrong. I thought that if an ant pushed a stone up, it would keep going until it hit another stone, which would receive the first's momentum, absorb a little bit and pass it on, making all of the tunnels above what you just dug collapse upward.
It would really suck if those ants got loose into the shuttle! Though they might find it to be a shocking experience to meet the electrical system (*cheap rim shot*)
I bet that guy from *NSync is really pissed now that even the lowly ant has beaten him out.
Uhhh... It's really late & I'm drunk.
In Soviet Russia, ants launch you into space.
Profit.
==
And for my next trick, I will disappear.
Webmaster Wanted - Entropic Reactions
SpaceAnts returned to Earth. Hastily dug, but severely weak tunnel systems collapsed. Ants all dead. What a bummer....
1. The ants were confused and scared. 2. The ants were confused and scared. 3. The ants were confused and scared.
Launch Preparations: $130 million
Anti-Grav Ant Colony: $2000
The fact that 30 years after we put man on the moon, this is the best NASA can come up with: Unfathomible.
You know, how about we try seeing how ants tunnel in Lunar Regolith, or Martian soil. That would be intersting.
This is great for the kids, but I think it just shows how far NASA has NOT come.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
I could only attribute this to concepts based on hinderences to human's movements in space. They probably assumed that since Humans have a harder time coordinating while in space suits on different worlds that Ants would have a harder time coordinating in small tunnels in a controled environment.
This of course has so far been proved false, because the Ants have several legs and movement through said tunnels would probably be easier with lower gravity in the same way humans could probably move faster in tunnels on the moon than we could here on earth. Think of it this way, we could jump down a cooridor on the moon far faster than we could walk run or crawl through it on earth.
I think what we're suffering from here is a DSJ - Distributed Simpson's Joke - attack. Fer crying out loud, people - enough already ;^)
Even heroes have the right to dream
Next thing you know they'll try wearing pants in space instead of those silly jumpsuits.
Repeal the DMCA!
Season 6 Episode 7: "The Simpsons already did it!".
I have 1 Gbps Internet access@home
No knowledge is bad knowledge. Perhaps ants have an optimal body structure for 0g tunneling? Could be useful to know for asteroid mining operations, perhaps. Then again, it could just be useless.
I think slash needs a new mod point (weird) anyways..
When I was 12-14 I was really into model rockets. I lived with my grandmother at the time and her yard had all kinds of newts and salamanders in it.
"OOH ASTRONEWTS!" Was the first thing that popped into my head.
I forget the model number, but it was an estes rocket with a clear payload chamber on it. I placed my "ASTRONEWT!" into the payload chamber, taped the fuse on the bottom of my C6-7 engine and then backed up for safety.
"HOUSTON THIS IS MISSION CONTROL, BEGINNING FINAL COUNTDOWN FOR LAUNCH!" I could see the little critter had no idea he was about to be launched into the stratosphere as he wiggled and squirmed inside of his cramped quarters.
"5-4-3-2-1 MAIN ENGINES ARE GO YOU HAVE CLEARED THE TOWER" This was about the 10th rocket I had built that year, everything on it was perfect, the wings had been sanded down and painted in 2 coats, same went for the body. This thing had to be the most arodynamically sound rocket I had ever built in my life because it just kept climbing and climbing.
"HOUSTON THIS IS MISSION CONTROL, WE ARE SHOWING YOU HAVE DEPLOYED YOUR RE-ENTRY PARACHUTES"
The rocket had flown so high I had to hop on my bike and chase it down. It ended up about 1/2 mile from where it had launched.
"HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM"
I looked at the rocket, and inside the poor newt wasn't squirming anymore. I don't know if he had died from shock, g forces, or what, but he was dead. I would have guess G forces from the condition of the corpse.
Well, after that I ended the astronewt program. Yeah it was a fucked up thing to do, and I regret it as an adult, but we were talking about animal experiments in space right?
It wasn't until Buzz Aldrin's EVA during the last Gemini mission that they had worked out a set of maneuvers and restraints to make sure that when an astronaut turned a knob, he didn't turn instead.
Now, an ant is never free floating. She always has something to hold onto, the tunnel. But if we have learned anything in space, you really can't assume anything. You have to observe it and see how it actually behaves.
Take fire for instance. You take it for granted here on earth that you can see the flames. Well, flames are caused by convection, which does't happen in micro-gravity. Hot air has the same "weight" as cold air. Instead the plasma forms a sphere that is tricky to see. Smoke does not rise from the fire for the very same reason.
With that sort of information, NASA found they had to design completely new fire detection systems for the ISS.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
I'm all for space exploration. Real space exploration. The problem is that NASA can't get the funding for all the good stuff so they resort to wasting money to justify their own existence. Seriously folks it's a complete and total waste.
International Space Station? Completely useless, and expensive at that. Come to think of it, NASA doesn't do anything cheap (not that I necessarily want to be on a cheap space shuttle).
NASA needs to stop wasting money on crappy little projects and ant-colonies and do something worthwhile. Then maybe it gets a bit more funding.
This is of these experiments where scientist make perverted experiments with animals which are totally useless and provide no advances for the problems of this worlds.
Most animal experiments can be done these days with artificial cell pads and simulations. There is definitely no need to use animals anymore. Furthermore the above mentioned experiment doesn't provide any new information. And it covers a niche of science which is partially useless for real world application anyway like feeding the hungry, stopping wars or curing illnesses.
I think our society has come to a very bad point when scientists make sick experiments with animals just for curiosity or to feel power.
Owner of a Mensa membership card.
Hmm. The website is http://antfarm.ma.cx/ -- the last time I visited a site that ended in .cx, I was in trouble.
I was hoping I'd be the first to make the Simpson's "sort tiny screws in space" joke. But now I see that EVERY SINGLE PERSON who posted before me used a quote from the "Homer in Space" episode already.
But, hey, maybe I can still milk this article for more Karma.
"I don't understand, it was non-alcoholic champagne."
or maybe...
"You mean I waxed my bikini zone for NOTHING?"
---
--
Disclaimer: The above statement probably includes half-truths, because real truth is too complicated.
Sure you rant about how people must protect themselves, but you fail to identify from what EXACTLY, and HOW one should go about doing just that. So in essence you ARE wasting your 'breath'.
You're nothing; like me.
2. We probably wasted thousands of tax dollars on this experiment.
You're nothing; like me.
"Eh, its a job." one beetle was reported as saying, before munching on a space turd.
Seriously, I'm all for getting kids involved in science and mathematics, but this is probably one of the dumbest experiments I've ever heard of. Unless the ants evolve into giant mutant space ants before the shuttle returns, I don't see how this can be of any practical value.
I'm trying and I really can't think of any solid benefits from trying this. Couldn't they have tried to design something a little more practical, or was this just dumbing down the project for lower-level students, like all schools do?
I imagine some of the smarter students had some more interesting ideas, but they weren't accepted, cause lil john and jane wouldn't have a clue what was going on. God forbid we actually challenge kids to learn something advanced.
Mod Points: Helping you keep your opinion to yourself.
Are the effects of space travel and microgravity on ants inherently more interesting for Nerds than the same effects on the web weaving of spiders, or cocoon spinning of silkworms, or the growth of crystalline filaments, or the eggs, development and taxis of Medaka fish, or the tunneling habits of carpenter bees?
Kids from 6 countries participate with 6 projects in this. WTF is so special with ants that hasn't been done before? Is it because "Fowler Highschool" is more easily pronounced than "Liechtenstein Gymnasium" for some people, or what?
Help savingAmigaOS and a free PowerPC market
I have done some reading on this experiment. The ants are going to be living in a agar based colliodal suspension. The agar (red sweed) will be mixed with sucrose (sugar), and some antifungals and of course water. You can buy the similar habitat at http://www.beachworld.it/eng/antquarium.html Or you can mix your own.. agar.. sometimes (agar-agar) is used as a gelatin replacement.. and is often used in asian cooking..
I thought the point was to get the bugs OUT of the system. Dubugging in micro-g won't be fun at all!
There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
This will be the start of the mutated ant race that will attach earth in a couple of years from now.
I have warned you all.
I have a thread/discussion about this space ants experiment here (my message board on ants) if anyone is interested.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
2003-01-22 08:39:35 Animal Experiments in STS-107 (NASA) (articles,space) (accepted)
:(
;) ), but as you say I don't remember seeing your first story, and it's only got 8 comments. Personally I much preferred your first version. Was it removed after a couple of seconds?
However, I never saw it posted unless I overlooked it.
WTF? I looked on your user page, and this story is a dupe (surprise!
Michael, what are you doing?
Help savingAmigaOS and a free PowerPC market
And succeeding generations, absent the influence of gravity, will probably grow to a larger and larger maximum adult size.
What we are seeing, ladies and gentlemen, is the birth of a new race of giant space ant. I strongly advise that they are destroyed or at least kept under very strict quarantine on the station. I mean, what if they get out? Wait, what's that noise? Oh NO THEY'RE BREAKING THROUGH! OMYGOD THEY'RE...AAAARGHBLBLBL !!! sadfgW^W$£^GR;;;;
Kent Brockman reports on Channel Six.
Kent: We're just about to get our first pictures from inside the
spacecraft with "average-naut" Homer Simpson, and we'd like to
-- aah!
[Camera shows a close-up of an ant floating in front of the
three astronauts]
Kent: Ladies and gentlemen, er, we've just lost the picture, but,
uh, what we've seen speaks for itself. The Corvair spacecraft
has been taken over -- "conquered", if you will -- by a master
race of giant space ants. It's difficult to tell from this
vantage point whether they will consume the captive earth men
or merely enslave them. One thing is for certain, there is no
stopping them; the ants will soon be here.
And I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords. I'd like to
remind them that as a trusted TV personality, I can be helpful
in rounding up others to toil in their underground sugar
caves.
Today's vices may be tomorrow's virtues.
Of course, the ants could mutate, grow hideously ugly faces, take over and land the shuttle and decide to make a break for it before we are forced to kill them...
"There is nothing wrong with your television set. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling transmission..."
Chris
-- the last time I visited a site that ended in .cx, I was in trouble.
:-P
Oh, that's just great. Now you made me imagine ants crawling down another kind of tunnel... After poking put my eyes, will somebody please burn my occipital lobe cortex?
Help savingAmigaOS and a free PowerPC market
- Protect the Queen! - Which one's the Queen? - I'm the Queen. - No you're not. - Freedom! - Horrible, horrible freedom!
The space shuttle is not in "microgravity." It is in orbit around the earth meaning everything can be considered to be in freefall indefinitely. More than 90% of the earth's gravitational field is maintained at that distance.
I'm trying and I really can't think of any solid benefits from trying this.
This statement could have two interpretations. One, that there are no direct benefits to what could be derived from this experiment. Two, that there are no benefits at all, scientific or otherwise.
I agree with number one. I disagree with number two. And furthermore, I think the assumption behind number one is faulty.
I believe there are practical, non-scientific benefits from doing this. You mention that you are in favor of getting kids involved in science. What better way then having them directly involved in real science? With real scientific equipment? This appears to me to be a valid scientific effort, albeit of little practical value. But is will no doubt have an immense effect on the self esteem of the kids involved. And don't tell me that you went through high school as a geek and couldn't have used a boost to your self esteem. (Another post in this thread complained of wasted tax dollars for field trips from NY to CO. I see no differnce between this and elite sports teams travelling for interstate games.)
The faulty asssumption is that scientific research needs to have immediate practical application. Because this assumption is so widely held, and in many cases not recognized as such, we have the situation where funding for basic fundemental research continues to shrink.
Consider the fate of the Superconducting Supercollider. The SSC designed to answer questions in physics that would have little or no immediate practical applications. But because of the assumption that all science has to be for something now, it failed to secure funding.
What that Newton, Maxwell, or Faraday had been forced to work under such constraints? Can you imagine Newton in a publish or perish environment? I'd have loved to have been a fly on the wall for Newton's response to, "Yes, yes Issac, we all know prisms make pretty colors. But as to giving you money to play with such toys, well ...". And I believe it was Faraday who when asked what use his work was replied, "Of what use is a newborn baby?" (I have seen this quote attributed to both Faraday and Ben Franklin.)
But without the basic work done by Faraday, Maxwell, et al, we would not have had the understanding of electromagnetism that many years later allows us to use computers to post comments on /.. Without the work done early in the last century on quantum mechanics we wouldn't have transistors or integrated circuits.
Consider the Michelson-Morley experiment. No immediate practical benefit at all. And furthermore, one that obtained a negative result. They expected to measure the effect of the ether and did not. Imagine how it would be reported today? Experiment to measure ether a failure, no effect found. It was Edison who said, "I have not failed. I have found 10,000 ways that don't work." No well thought out and performed scientific experiment is ever a 'failure'. Unless your assumption is that all experiments should have the predictable result for practical benefits, stated in advance as justification in the funding grant request.
The faulty assumption of immediate practical benefit precludes doing fumdemental research of possible long term benefit. So what knowledge that we haven't gained because the SSC was canceled would have been useful in 2050?
There is a difference between basic research and applied research. The faulty assumption is that all research is/should be applied. This has the practical (i.e. in practise) result that in general, only those projects that have immediate payoffs get funded. This is a bad thing.
Steve M
3. = Profit! ;)
Though I can't imagine how
The best weapon of a dictatorship is secrecy, but the best weapon of a democracy should be the weapon of openness.
This is slashdot. It is NOT a good cross section of society. The people who post here have a lot of things in common, one of those things is the Simpsons and one of the traditions on slashdot is quoting the simpsons when it is relevent to a story. It has nothing to do with media brainwashing or behavior control.
I do not know why I am even replying to such an obvious troll.
Ant colonies in space are far from worthless.
This just proved that insect based terraforming engines would be possible, whether through mechanical, bio-mechanical, engineered, or just selectively bred.
Not only that, but that ants, and perhaps other insects, do better in low g then in high g; meaning also that they represent a useful mechanical alternative to wheels and other locomotion devices. It also probably means, within unknown constraints due to blood flow, that ants could probably become much larger in space and still function.
None of this is useless; the only reason it is useless is because you, the beholder, haven't the intelligence, creativity, or capbability to put *information* to use.
GPL Deconstructed
And why do you think they would experiment with ants in lunar regolith or martian soil without first discovering how ants react to zero g in the first place? Baby steps, right?
This is *not* useless. This is *not* uninteresting.
Ant colonies in space are far from worthless.
This just proved that insect based terraforming engines would be possible, whether through mechanical, bio-mechanical, engineered, or just selectively bred.
Not only that, but that ants, and perhaps other insects, do better in low g then in high g; meaning also that they represent a useful mechanical alternative to wheels and other locomotion devices. It also probably means, within unknown constraints due to blood flow, that ants could probably become much larger in space and still function.
None of this is useless; the only reason it is useless is because you, the beholder, haven't the intelligence, creativity, or capbability to put *information* to use.
In your position I see many possibilities. You just see a waste.
Imagine ants 1' across used to terraform asteroids and planetoids! Partner them up with power sources, plants that create oxygen, and you've got a self limiting factory. As soon as the power dies, the oxygen goes, and the ants stop. But the end result is the possibility of miles of usable tunnels. And why 1'? Why not 2'? Or 4'? What's the limits of an ant's heart in zero g?
Of course we don't know. Does that make an experiment of breeding giant ants worthless?
Not at all! It just makes it one more thing we don't know that, if more people like you were in charge, we would *never* know.
GPL Deconstructed
Yes, but knowing that an ant body is a bad design for space tunneling would be useful for robot engineers and they would make a different body instead.
It looks like it is a good design because you have 6 points of anchorage and the mandibles to dig with. In a gravitational situation like this, one would expect the extra stability and manueverability would help. (The students probably didn't compare stabilty like that and just extrapolated our two legged problem.)
IMarv
Trusting software vendors is no smarter than trus
Ant Experiment Edition. Online play is planned if, and only if, it becomes a cult phenomenon; $10/month "subscription" still required to play.
Only available in colonies overrun by giant space ants.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
If ants can do it, nano-robot swarms could do it it too. If you could have a "hive" of robots doing constant hull mainenance, that could save a lot of dangerous spacewalks. Or even a nano-swarm doing exploration on Mars...
Not that this is something that is feasible with current technology, but we're getting there, and it's this kind of space research that is going to help us get there.
Besides: Space ants! Cool!
------ What's sadder than realizing you've filtered out your own comments?
".. until some American git opened a bag of chips."
Since when was an appropriate Simpsons reference off topic?
Eclectic beats from Leeds, UK
handmadehands.co.uk
THAT Was flamebait!
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All