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Shutting down Kazaa

An anonymous reader writes "There is an interesting wired.com article on the fight between the world's media corporations and Kazaa. The lengths Kazaa has gone to to keep itself immune from attack (incorporated variously in Vanuatu (where?), Estonia and Australia), seem to have largely paid off - until now."

98 of 500 comments (clear)

  1. Kazaa participation level by skermit · · Score: 3, Informative

    If you're not getting the downloads or results to searchers you used to, it might be because you're "leeching". This little utility (scanned with latest version of AVP, F-Prot, and Orion) maxes out your participation level, allowing you to leech to your heart's content.

    http://kazaahack.250x.com

    --
    -Christopher Wu
    http://www.christopherwu.net/
    1. Re:Kazaa participation level by NineNine · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And this is good, how? Leechers *do* suck. What's the loss to just leave Kazaa up when you're not using it. Hell, I have a dial-up connection, and I just leave my copy of Kazaa up whenever I'm not using the machine. So, fuck you and your cheating program.

    2. Re:Kazaa participation level by jonathanbearak · · Score: 2, Interesting

      i've been on linux using gtk-gnutella for awhile now, so i haven't really kept up with kazaa. but what you've just pointed out to me is very interesting, and i think threatens users.

      kazaa makes money via file-sharing. users don't. however, by getting these "i am not a leech!" points, users are offering their services in exchanging for kazaa's services. this makes users subject to litigation that isn't just the usual riaa bullcrap, because they can argue that what the users are doing is commercial exchange. users' uploading services pay for kazaa's downloading services; kazaa's downloading services pay for the users' uploading services.

      IANAL, but as i understand things, this gives validity to suing individual users (of kazaa).

    3. Re:Kazaa participation level by Kaz+Riprock · · Score: 5, Informative

      Because of the intense bandwidth being consumed at universities across the nation for uploads and downloads thru the Kazaa ports, many schools are cracking down on fileswappers (not for copyright, but to keep the network traffic managable). In that way, a lot of college students will leech because if they spike the upload bandwidth, the IT police knock on their door and terminate their in-room connection. This has been covered here at slashdot before.

      --
      Mordor...a magical, mythical land where women are more rare than dragons--but where every man would rather find a dragon
    4. Re:Kazaa participation level by spaten-optimator · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Furthermore, many people (including myself) have cable modems. Upload speeds are "capped" at a fraction of the download speeds. I can DOWNLOAD from KaZaA with relative ease, and still manage to browse webpages, or use a secure shell connection to a remote site, or do anything else I normally do (except play games which require an extremely low latency).

      However, introduce just one upload from my computer, and I suddenly find that my HTTP requests take forever to get to webservers, and even Google's front page takes longer to load.

      Even so - I tend to allow uploads to continue. What I keep in my "shared" directory are mostly those hard-to-find files that take forever to download because there are a lack of people with that file. I can only hope that people who get those files from me are doing the same.

      ---

      --

      --
      Disclaimer: The above statement probably includes half-truths, because real truth is too complicated.
    5. Re:Kazaa participation level by deadsaijinx* · · Score: 2, Interesting

      i hardly consider cable to be horribly capped. i use cable and whenever my participation points reach to low, i just stop dling and let others load off of my files. i usually have around 800 points and i dont leech. i share everything and i wish others would do the same. as for leechers, go to hell! people, share your files, damn it! SHARE!!!! that is all

      --
      YOU SUCK BALLS!
    6. Re:Kazaa participation level by glesga_kiss · · Score: 4, Interesting
      However, introduce just one upload from my computer, and I suddenly find that my HTTP requests take forever to get to webservers, and even Google's front page takes longer to load.

      That's due to a technical quirk of TCP/IP that is more prevailent with asymetric links.

      Every received TCP packet must be acknowledged with an ACK packet. If you allow something to use 100% of your upload bandwidth, you'll find your ACK packets from your downloads get queued to get sent back in the upstream. This hammers your internet connection because the servers won't send you any more packets until you have ACK'ed the already sent ones.

      The solution is to limit uploads to around 90 - 95 % of your total upload capacity. Unfortunatly, while Kazaa has an in-build bandwidth throttle that you can set, you can only change it in powers of two. I prefer WinMX, which allows you to set any value you want.

      This web page explains the problem and the solution in better detail than I have, with graphs etc.

      If you are using a Linux NAT box or a good firewall, you may be able to set up traffic shaping to not allow p2p to max things out. This will also give priority to the ACK packets, and you can set it so that HTTP traffic also gets priority. It's pretty complex stuff though.

  2. That means... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    I have some pr0n movies dl'ing over kazaa. They're going at around 0.5-2k/sec and been going for around a month. If they close it down then damn I'll be pissed.

  3. Kazaa vs eMule by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Kazaa is P2P for the non-power users...I urge everyone to try out eMule / eDonkey....file integrity is next to none other and speed is remarkably impressive (considering the chunk based downloading system). Check it out!

    1. Re:Kazaa vs eMule by UnuMondo · · Score: 2, Informative

      I also find giFT a great service. It's mostly Linux users apparently, so plenty of oggs and a great deal of music for nerds like ourselves.

      --
      GPG Key ID: 8C444E97 Fingerprint: E7BA D851 9714 8D97 C4F9 1777 8168 6913 8C44 4E97
    2. Re:Kazaa vs eMule by fault0 · · Score: 4, Informative

      The problem with eDonkey is that it's pretty centralized in terms of the way OpenNap was centralized (actually more, as there is no "networks" in eDonkey). If the RIAA/MPAA saw eDonkey as a threat, they could easily take down the individual server operators (like the RIAA once did with OpenNap server operators)

      Overnet tries to solve it, but it's just not there yet compared to KaZaA and even giFT/openFT. Hopefully it will be in the future, because I love ed2k and related services.

    3. Re:Kazaa vs eMule by fault0 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's pretty hard to find very new releases and really old/rare releases on directconnect. And the problem with fake sharing is hurting it more and more, especially with clients like dctc/dc_gui where you can type how much you want to virtually share in GB :p

    4. Re:Kazaa vs eMule by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'll vouch for this. eMule is several times more reliable and useful than kazaa and gnutella/2. It's extremely easy to spot fakes on eMule. It's extremely hard for systems like overpeer to work against eMule. Sharing at reasonable speeds is also forced by the client; on kazaa you constantly get downloads in the .5k/sec-2k/sec range, on eMule this rarely happens, if you have more than 20 or so sources, you are pretty much guarenteed a fast download, even on files in the gigabyte range. Network exploits are also quickly taken care of by eMules open source developers.

      Also for anybody who thinks the donkey network sucks, you have probably only tried the actual edonkey2000 client, don't use that one, it realy sucks, the author loaded it up with spyware and did a realy hack job on it (although he did a very decent job on the network protocol). Get eMule instead, it's GPL too.

    5. Re:Kazaa vs eMule by (rypto* · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Since giFT is still under heavy development, there are no "current" released files. The old releases that are available are basically not the same project, simply using the same name. After jasta "tookover" development, the project has significantly shifted in direction and has made no formal public releases since then. This is due to the extremely volatile nature of the project and we feel it would be best to withhold releases until some more APIs and protocol specifications mature and eventually freeze.
      However, with that said, we still do provide the old giFT releases for educational purposes. Please note that the old giFT used to connect to FastTrack, but due to changes made on FastTrack's part, the client was kicked off the network and thus currently cannot connect. The modern giFT now utilizes an open source reintrepetation of FastTrack's ideas.

      --
      #3 pencils and quadrille pads.
    6. Re:Kazaa vs eMule by chabotc · · Score: 5, Informative

      Incase some people do want to try out mldonkey (i would advice it), these links will allow you to hit the ground running:

      downloads:
      * edonkey2000: http://www.edonkey2000.com/ (official client page. Has a almost working linux client to.. windows client is good)

      * eMule: http://www.emule-project.net/ (considered the best windows client. Also open source)

      * mldonkey: http://www.nongnu.org/mldonkey/ (linux client, with GIU, Web & telnet interfaces. Considered 'best' on linux. Open source)

      * cdonkey: http://cdonkey.suche.org/ (some seem to like it, i don't want to touch it)

      Good content sites:

      * http://www.sharereactor.com (between its own listings, and the content in the forums, this is a unbeatable resource!)
      * http://www.filenexus.com (sharereactor 'competitor', much smaller, but does music)

      * http://www.sharedfolders.net (place where ppl can share their own 'releases' and faborites.. some good stuff can be found there, but takes a bit of work)

      Enjoy, and welcome to the donkey file sharing world ;-)

    7. Re:Kazaa vs eMule by bsharitt · · Score: 5, Informative

      For the Mac users there's Jim, which is a giFT client. It can be found here. Binaries and all. I've found the network to be much better that Limewire and all those Gnutella clients, although there isn't as much content yet(that's why more people need to use is).

    8. Re:Kazaa vs eMule by GeckoFood · · Score: 2, Informative

      ...file integrity is next to none...

      Shall we assume you meant second to none? If you really meant "next to none" then it's a wonder anyone uses it at all!

      --
      Be excellent to each other. And... PARTY ON, DUDES!
    9. Re:Kazaa vs eMule by bogie · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "but I would rather support a network that doesn't foist spyware "

      So basically your saying your giving the moral highground to a service that is "better" for committing priacy and copyright infringement as opposed to one that fosters spyware?

      --
      If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
    10. Re:Kazaa vs eMule by WereTiger · · Score: 2, Interesting

      To satisfy my curiosity, I followed your advice and tried eMule.

      thus far, I'd consider it poorer-than-average.

      On Kazaa I routinely get downloads of 50k/s and even if I'm not, at least my upstream is being used somewhat efficiently. On Emule my upstream is barely being used (I'm sharing 44 Gigs of files, and have almost 400 uploads queued, and for some reason it's barely doing 1.5k/s?) and in 3 hours I've gotten 1 Meg of a Gig's worth of queued files with over 80 sources altogether.

      Kazaa does better than this. although I love the chunked network system idea, it doesn't seem to be 'working'.

      --
      If you're hearing rhetoric about Linux, open source, or Mac and everyone's bashing Microsoft, you've found Slashdot.
  4. Whatever by drunkmonk · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is a measure/countermeasure race, one that the RIAA/MPAA cannot win. Technology changes faster than litigation can be processed, so for every Kazaa that is shut down, the people who are going to develop the next generation of file-sharing utilities will learn from the mistakes made, both legal and technological, and create better tools. There's only so much that litigation can do to prop up a failing business model.

    1. Re:Whatever by ergo98 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I read these sorts of posts as a "leave my playground alone!" sort of petulant rant justifying why P2P is inevitable so therefore they should just suck it (and people have been spewing this trash since the Commodore 64 and disc duping, berating how copy protection is just a waste and technologically the business model is failing.)

      Here's a thought for you, though: Next year there are zero movies and zero commercial music releases. Before you hurrah about how great that would be for the world as all of the independent acts with "much more talent" comes to the forefront, take a peek at your current collection of video and music files. I'll bet a pretty good coinage that it's all Dixie Chicks, Britney Spears and n'Sync. Such is the nature of the horribly hypocritical pro-P2P community: Giveme givem giveme, but can your failing business model. Good old tragedy of the commons playing out on the P2P networks.

      Here's another thought for you -- When big music and big movies fail at thwarting P2P "at the top", they will, and this is a guarantee, start booting in doors and arresting/suing Joe Average for running Limewire and grabbing what appears to be a copyright movie or song. Before you rant about how technologically they couldn't do that, realize that they could with no trouble at all: Tracking down P2P users would be absolutely trivial. Contrary to the YRO sentiment believed on Slashdot, the majority of the general populace would support such actions if presented with big media's side of things.

    2. Re:Whatever by swillden · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When big music and big movies fail at thwarting P2P "at the top", they will, and this is a guarantee, start booting in doors and arresting/suing Joe Average for running Limewire and grabbing what appears to be a copyright movie or song.

      Suing your customers is a somewhat questionable business model. I can't think of a single thing they could do that would kill them more quickly.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    3. Re:Whatever by ergo98 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Suing your customers is a somewhat questionable business model.

      The idea is that they aren't your customers anymore than catching someone sneaking over the fence at the ballpark is prosecuting your "customer". Yeah some people strangely use P2P to grab copies of CDs that they own (a logic that is highly perplexing), but contrary to the "that's the majority" portrayal on Slashdot, overwhelmingly P2P is about people grabbing the latest hit song that they heard on the radio, or a divx of some movie (purportedly because they want a much lower quality version of the DVD they already own...)

    4. Re:Whatever by swillden · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The idea is that they aren't your customers anymore than catching someone sneaking over the fence at the ballpark is prosecuting your "customer".

      You're wrong.

      The largest music-buying demographic is teenagers and college students, and they're also, as a whole, a group that frowns on "the establishment". In addition, even though they do buy a huge amount of music, in this demographic pretty much *everyone* downloads music, at least occasionally.

      So, even if the RIAA only goes after the most hardcore P2Pers, the fact is that the group as a whole will see it as a personal attack by established corporate interests.

      In short, the RIAA will seriously piss off a huge part of their customer base. It'll kill them.

      As far as the ballpark analogy, consider that the ballparks just kick the kids out, they don't file trespassing charges against them. In the long run it's not even such a bad thing if the kids succeed in watching the occasional game -- just helps to ensure that they're going to be lifelong fans that will buy season tickets when they're adults and can afford it. In other words, the kids don't end up hating the baseball league, and that's important.

      Yeah some people strangely use P2P to grab copies of CDs that they own (a logic that is highly perplexing)

      Why is that perplexing? Personally, I'd rather rip and encode them myself (I like oggs with -q 6), but I can certainly see how it would be more convenient for some people to download them. I have helped my wife download copies of some music that she only has on vinyl (and can't buy on CD because it's never been published on CD). I have hooked my record player up to my computer, recorded the signal, post-processed it to clean it up and then compressed it, but it's a huge amount of work -- so I look to see if I can download it first. Also, I have downloaded copies of songs from to replace the ones I lost when my CDs got damaged.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    5. Re:Whatever by Christopher+Thomas · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So, even if the RIAA only goes after the most hardcore P2Pers, the fact is that the group as a whole will see it as a personal attack by established corporate interests.

      In short, the RIAA will seriously piss off a huge part of their customer base. It'll kill them.


      I doubt it.

      They'll whine and gnash their teeth and buy the CDs anyways. This is the same demographic that says "music group X has sold out!" and buys all of their stuff anyways, and who will watch TV for hours on end while complaining that there's nothing good on.

      As for prosecution, the only people hit will be the suppliers with gigabytes of music or hundreds of movies. Most people won't be directly under attack, and so will barely notice. Remember pirate boards in BBS days? The boards, not the users, were the ones hit. It was actually even more selective than that; the boards specializing in credit card fraud and kiddie porn were hit, while the smaller fish were ignored. This is a natural consequence of the prosecuting organization's resources being limited. Joe User didn't really care; there were always more boards.

      What happens for Joe User is that their favourite boards go down, it becomes harder for them to find what they want online, so they pester their parents to buy $item instead of spending hours looking for it.

      Sharing can't be eliminated, but it can be made inconvenient, which is good enough. And people will still buy things no matter what.

  5. Interesting ads by LiftOp · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Fascinating to me that media companies like DirecTV and Netflix bought ad space. Netflix, I suppose, must be something of a thorn in the side of moviemakers (no reason to ever BUY a DVD), but DirecTV?

    It's hard to condemn someone and still profit from their popularity.

    1. Re:Interesting ads by proj_2501 · · Score: 2, Informative

      DirecTV is actually owned by GM.

  6. Leechers Suck! by Seek_1 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You do realize that if all everyone did was leech then the entire system would collapse right??

    I like the way that Overnet does things. Your max download speed is 4X your upload speed. This forces people to use their upstream bandwidth, even if they're not sharing anything (which is evil in itself) as the temp files are all also shared (so anything you're downloading can be downloaded by other people until it's completed).

    1. Re:Leechers Suck! by NaDrew · · Score: 2, Insightful
      You do realize that if all everyone did was leech then the entire system would collapse right?

      If everyone (or a significant majority of everyone) set their participation level to "Supreme Being", it would just invalidate the whole "participation level" system and we'd be back where we were before it was added--from each according to his upstream, to each according to his downstream. IMO that would be a good thing. It's hard enough finding the right version of the song I'm looking for, not a bad cover or low-bitrate or RIAA-spoofed version. We don't need this artificial user rating system on top of it.
      --
      Vista:XPSP2::ME:98SE
  7. Where? by skroz · · Score: 5, Funny

    How dare you! I plan to RETIRE to Vanuatu! With a land area slightly larger than Conneticut, a total population less than 200,000 people, and an economy based mostly on subsistence farming and, er, shady overseas financial deals (with a little tourism on the side,) what's not to love?

    Please note the above comments about shady financial dealings, and ask yourself again why Kazaa is incorporated there.

    For more information on vanuatu, see the CIA world Factbook.

    http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geo s/ nh.html

    --
    -- Minds are like parachutes... they work best when open.
    1. Re:Where? by epicstruggle · · Score: 2, Informative
      --
      "Im drowning here, and you're describing the water!"
    2. Re:Where? by nickclarke · · Score: 5, Funny

      And you'll even be safe from George W Bush:
      "the country has no known petroleum deposits"

  8. song = movie? by sczimme · · Score: 4, Interesting


    From the article:

    Record labels and movie studios want the services closed and fined $150,000 for each illegally traded song or movie.

    The dollar figure itself is ridiculous, but I find it interesting that the proposed fine is the same for movies and songs. Let's say the average song is 3 minutes, and the average movie is 90 minutes - i.e. 30 times the length of a song. If the movie fine were $150,000, then the fine for a song should be $5,000 (using duration as the primary factor). If the fine for a song were $150,000, well...

    Having said that, I don't believe the labels, et al will collect anything.

    --
    I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
  9. Hehe, let em try. by miffo.swe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Not that i like pirating at all. In fact its one of the biggest habit holding people back from adopting open source. If poeple had to pay the fantasy prices they would be alot swifter to use open source instead of pirating. Likewise pirating is bad for independant artists and cheap labels that nobody cares about. People dont pay so they dont care about lower proces.

    Still, trying to stop pirating is totally fruitless. Next in line is shadow networks where no one is tracable. To stop one of those is next to impossible. A filter at each ISP can do the trick but it would be an enourmous task to get that implemented in every country. When its filtered just send your packets in some other protocol like vpn or ssh etc. even if they succeed stopping pirating alltogheter over the internet people still will exchange cds and dvds like back in the 90s but with new types of media.

    The cost of stopping pirating is just to big and they should spend that money on relations and better products instead of fitghting the windmills.

    --
    HTTP/1.1 400
    1. Re:Hehe, let em try. by PyromanFO · · Score: 2, Funny

      Its like that, only its a fraction of a penny and we do it a couple of million times. Whats wrong with that?

      BTW, I use Kaaza, just a joke :)

    2. Re:Hehe, let em try. by james_bray · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Thats extremely unlikely to happen.

      Actually enforcing such a scheme, even just for US netizens, would be a very difficult task.

      Not only that, but Im fairly sure that tracking people (and consequently collecting information about them) would be an illegal act in itself.

      No, the only way to combat music-sharing is to fight on the same turf. Setup a secure server; allow people to download tracks for a small(er) fee. Offer additional features, competitions, chances to win things etc. Give them a reason to pay for the music online, and maybe they will...

      Just my $0.02...

      --
      http://www.reeb.freeserve.co.uk
    3. Re:Hehe, let em try. by surprise_audit · · Score: 5, Interesting
      A filter at each ISP can do the trick but it would be an enourmous task to get that implemented in every country. When its filtered just send your packets in some other protocol like vpn or ssh etc

      Is anyone using HTTPS yet? That would be tough to block, because they'd be interfering with inter-state commerce, and if I recall correctly, that would run smack into the Constitution...

      As for getting filters implemented in every country, that'll pretty soon take care of itself. When every PC in the US has the "Trusted Platform" chip built in, the Internet will fragment into two parts - the USA and Everyone Else. This will be due to the Trusted Platform equipment in the USA not letting itself talk to the non-Trusted Platform equipment in the European Union and elsewhere.

    4. Re:Hehe, let em try. by meringuoid · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Um, how about "my PC is my weapon in the fight against terrorism" and DRM is the federally mandated trigger-lock of the PC world...

      If, as the US government once argued, PGP is a munition, then a PC is a weapon.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    5. Re:Hehe, let em try. by surprise_audit · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Woohoo!! In which case, it's not a long step towards classifying Microsoft as a manufacturer of munitions and then they come under government control, right?

      Of course, I'm not sure if that would be a good thing or a bad thing..

  10. kazaa by pummer · · Score: 3, Informative

    KaZaA, as we know, is laden with spyware. use kazaalite.

    1. Re:kazaa by edox. · · Score: 5, Informative

      Diet Kazaa is much better than kazaalite you can change your nearest supernode[find a t1 or higher super node]. It has ip browser that show the ip address of the remote user. It blocks upgrade notice. You can customize ur kazaa remove the media bar, remove the menu bar etc.. all that kazaalite lacks

      .

      --
      quote:port 17 udp
    2. Re:kazaa by (rypto* · · Score: 5, Informative

      Get it here Its worth endorsement

      --
      #3 pencils and quadrille pads.
  11. Vanuatu by errxn · · Score: 5, Informative

    I got curious, so I checked it out. It's a small island nation in the South Pacific. Here's a map, for the interested:

    --
    In Soviet Russia, Chuck Norris will still kick your ass.
  12. Why can't they win? by glrotate · · Score: 4, Interesting

    These ventures require money. Who will want to risk money on a venture that has a high likelyhood of getting smashed?

    Whack-a-mole Napster, Whack-a-mole Kazaa.

    Who's next?

    The other Ace in the hole that the RIAA has is going after users. Wait till they sue 500 or so of the most pernicious "sharers" at your local university. Would you step in to replace them?

    1. Re:Why can't they win? by Hobbex · · Score: 4, Interesting

      These ventures require money. Who will want to risk money on a venture that has a high likelyhood of getting smashed?

      No they don't. These networks are entirely self supporting, and could well be supported by free software projects.

      As always, the free projects are taking longer to mature then the proprietary once, but they are coming along. Look at EMule and DC++ for instance.

      I think that they could possibly kill the "global" P2P systems if they managed to effectively attack and fine people who are sharing data. As it is, the worst thing that can happen if you share is that you get told to stop - if there was a substantial chance that sharing files meant a $100 ticket, they would dry out pretty fast.

      (I wrote "global" because I think in such a case people would start trading in closed circles, relying on the six degrees of seperation for files to get around.)

    2. Re:Why can't they win? by artemis67 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      These ventures require money. Who will want to risk money on a venture that has a high likelyhood of getting smashed?

      90 million captive users watching your banner ads while they download? This is a golden business model of cat-and-mouse; by the time the courts shut them down, they will have made hundreds of millions, stashed away in private overseas accounts, and then they just declare bankruptcy to avoid paying anything out.

      The reward is too great to discourage future Kazaa-wannabees, and all that is going to happen is that the rogue file swappers will perfect their business models based on all of the previous litigation and judgements. I suspect the RIAA will exhaust their legal war chest before they make a dent in online file swapping.

      It just reinforces the fact that the music industry needs to offer a competitive product (not the token ones they are tossing us now). Start selling songs, from .50 to $1.50, and give the owner complete control over the file. Will that be enough to stop online music piracy? Of course not, but music piracy existed long before Napster came along.

  13. Bootstrapping? by yerricde · · Score: 5, Insightful

    even if they're not sharing anything (which is evil in itself)

    If not sharing is considered evil, and a fellow new to movie trading has nothing to share, then for a fellow without a DVD-ROM drive or the video mastering expertise to make a good DivX rip, how is it possible to download one's first movie from Overnet without appearing "evil"?

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
    1. Re:Bootstrapping? by SuperMario666 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Your analogy doesn't really make any sense.

    2. Re:Bootstrapping? by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Um. What? That's the worst pair of analogies I've ever heard. In my entire life.

      How about this: You go into a bank, rob it, and because of this, everyone everywhere can have all the material posessions that they want. This is of course, not possible. It is possible with digital media. Intellectual property and money are inherently not analogous.

      As to your leeching argument... what? Does that make any sense to anyone else? (No, SuperDuG, please do not repeat it for me.) In the future, try using shorter sentences.

      --

      There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
    3. Re:Bootstrapping? by DarkZero · · Score: 5, Funny

      Drug Dealing is bad ... what is stealing movies and distributing them? How about you go to a bank and rob them, then you give out the money to everyone who asks for it, does that make it right?

      Please list some of the names of the poor, unfortunate souls that have died from intellectual property overdose, as well as the others that have died from being shot during a P2P file heist. I'm sure that with tens of millions of Kazaa users, those lists must be very, very long.

    4. Re:Bootstrapping? by Hott+of+the+World · · Score: 3, Funny

      Agreed.

      That comment was about as coherent as

      1.Give bad analogy
      2.????
      3.Prove Point!

      --
      | - | - |
    5. Re:Bootstrapping? by symbolic · · Score: 2, Insightful


      This is irrelevant. It's still theft.

    6. Re:Bootstrapping? by DarkZero · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is irrelevant. It's still theft.

      Even if I were to consider it theft, which I obviously do not, theft != drug dealing or a bank heist. Both of those activities entail the risk of death and often the actual death of human beings, which is a far cry from "stealing" some pop music song on the internet. It is a false analogy created specifically to create a faulty link between file sharing and murderous activities which are, very rightly, considered to be completely different offenses with completely different penalties under the law.

  14. Re:How? by swordgeek · · Score: 4, Informative

    Fairly simple. Kazaa is a proprietary client using a specific, 'proprietary' protocol[1]. There's only one company behind it, even if the distribution itself is well, distributed.

    Now something like Gnutella is going to be near impossible to kill.

    [1]proprietary is in quotes here because the very concept of a proprietary network protocol is somewhat questionable. Suffice to say, it's not an openly revealed protocol.

    --

    "People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
  15. Re:Are there hubs for common folk? by rastachops · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Since when did dialup users contribute in a worthwhile way to P2P? They are slow to upload to and generally dont share anything either.

  16. What About Gnucleus? by ras_b · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'm surprised i don't see more mention of Gnucleus for file sharing. Why don't more people use this? Gnucleus is an open source client for the gnutella network- no ads, no spyware, and no hidden corporations running it. I have been using it successfully for a long time, but whenever i ask others what they use it's always "kazaa". I don't get it.

    1. Re:What About Gnucleus? by inerte · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because Kazaa has 3.5 million users online at any given time. Gnucleus (Gnutella) only has ~150K.

      And, Gnutella has a diversity of clients. Not all of them implement or support the latest advances. Meanwhile almot everyone on Kazaa runs the most recent version.

      So, Kazaa is a better network, with more users. In other words, more content that is easier to find.

    2. Re:What About Gnucleus? by JoeMac · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Gnucleus is not a bad utility, but it lacks a sufficient userbase to be of use to me. I recently switched to KazaaLite after using Gnucleus for what was probably a good 8 months, and files that I searched for that whole time on Gnucleus no one ever had...but I found them immediately with various users on KazaaLite.

      With filesharing, you have to go where everyone else is to have any hope of finding anything specific that you're looking for. Sure, roaming someone else's shared files for something new can be fun, but it's time-consuming and often fruitless.

      I used to agree with all the arguments you made about why Gnucleus is worthwhile, but I finally broke down and said: "Damnit, I just want to find what I'm looking for." And having Gnucleus spend 10 minutes trying to connect to SuperNode every time just so I can get zero results for a search doesn't impress me too much.

  17. Statutory damages for copyright infringement by yerricde · · Score: 2, Informative

    If the fine for a song were $150,000, well...

    It is. Instead of taking actual damages, a prevailing copyright owner can elect to take statutory damages of up to $150,000 per work, as defined in Title 17, United States Code, section 504. And for a sound recording, statutory damages can potentially reach $300,000 because copyrights on two separate works are infringed: the copyright on the melody (owned by the songwriter or by the songwriter's publisher) and the copyright on the sound recording (owned by the band or by the record label).

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
  18. Aern't they missing the point by endrek · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Um... Even from the article it doesn't look like kazaa will be "going down" any time soon. Sherma nset it up so that it would be pretty much impossible to take apart, wheather or not he was still involved with it. I really don't think the media industry has any idea what they are dealing with. They seem to think that now that they have him it will end. They can do eveything they want to him include kill him and kazaa will live on. They really have nothing but the man who started it. Kudoos to him tho ;)

  19. Fighting the RIAA using their own tactics by AnalogDiehard · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Record labels have used offshore corporations and tax havens to siphon profits from struggling artists for years, telling them that their income would be safe from US or UK tax laws. Then that money mysteriously disappears.

    Creedence Clearwater Revival is the best example of this. They were foolish enough to heed the advice of a label accountant and agreed to shelter their royalties into an offshore corporation under the control of the label - and then stood helpless as they discovered to their horror that the corporation and their money vanished.

    And of course the labels continue to refuse to open the accounting books for audits. These practices continue today, through contracts that severely restrict audit policies and reducing the royalty flow to artists to a trickle leaving them with no resources to hire the qualified legal counsel necessary to force the labels to open their books. If you thought Enron or WorldCom were bad...

    I find it highly ironic and appropriate that the RIAA is chasing a target who is beating them by using their own tactics through offshore puppet corporations with ghost staff and through countries that do not acknowledge US law. In the end when the RIAA is pointing a finger at KaZaa in court, it should be emphasized that they have three fingers pointing back to them.

    --
    Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
    1. Re:Fighting the RIAA using their own tactics by commodoresloat · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's a good idea fighting the RIAA using their own tactics. Just like they fight the p2p networks by filling them with crap files, forcing users to distribute shitty music files, we can do the same to them! Record crap music, get a contract with them and force them to distribute crap music! Everybody wins!

      Oh, wait..... never mind.

  20. Dude you are sooo L33T. by glrotate · · Score: 3, Funny

    I feel ashamed of my self just for reading your posts.

  21. giFT has too many roadblocks for Windows users by yerricde · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's mostly Linux users apparently

    Last time I checked, it didn't even build on Windows. This has changed. I don't think many Windows users are willing to 1. download all of giFT's dependencies, which include SSH, CVS, Cygwin, Cygwin Xfree86, Perl, the Ogg libraries, and more; 2. learn how to use Cygwin; 3. configure the dependencies; and 4. compile giFT when they could just go on kazaalite.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
  22. Re:Out of genuine curiosity... by Exiler · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's called protest by lawlessness. The best example I've heard is the speed limit, if they changed the speed limit on highways to 20 MPH, and no one followed it and kept doing 60, they CANNOT fine everyone, and therefor the law would be changed eventually.

    --
    Banaaaana!
  23. Re:Out of genuine curiosity... by Threni · · Score: 3, Funny

    "Kazaa facilitates ilegal sharing of copyrighted materials. It should have been shut down long ago"

    The internet/postal service/phone companies facilitates ilegal sharing of copyrighted materials. It/they should have been shut down long ago.

    NOW do you see why your post looks stupid?

  24. amusing.. by kevin+lyda · · Score: 2, Insightful

    i like the blurb where they said that kazaa made millions without spending any money on content. the same could be said of ebay or fedex.

    i've never used p2p services, but from a high level kazaa is like a directory service. maybe it does some caching, anonymizing and other kinds of negotiation, but on the whole it's major selling point is that it hooks up different classes of users: producers (well, maybe "data holders" would be better) and consumers.

    and it's not all that fair to blame a directory for what its users do wrong. i do find kazaa's "corporate hacks" interesting. they've gone to great lengths to level the playing field on a corporate/legal level. i don't like their tech or their ethics in other areas but they have proved that there are ways for an underdog to fight large corporations.

    --
    US Citizen living abroad? Register to vote!
  25. Switch to OpenFT! by Lispy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why don't they use an opensource protocol such as OpenFT?

    They could only supply a windows gui and throw the ads and spyware on the users. They wouldn't be the driving force behind the protocol so the Music-Industry couldn't sue them for providing a filesharing platform. Am i wrong on this?

    cu,
    Lispy

  26. Even if they lose... by Tuxinatorium · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Even if they lose every single lawsuit, they can't be shut down. The US or Australia have no way of enforcing anything in Vanatu or Estonia. Besides, Kazaalite can continue to operate even if Sharman were nuked off the face of the earth. Hell, BearShare and other gnutella clients are even more decentralised than Kazaa. What they're doing is like trying to kill a fungus by killing the cell that started it. Going after the companies that make the software is useless, because people will continue to use and distribute the software long after the parent company is gone. Eventually, they'll realize that the ONLY way to stop piracy is to go after individuals and use scare tactics, so the RIAA/MPAA will go on a reign of terror arresting college students who share too many MP3s, movies, etc.

    1. Re:Even if they lose... by Guppy06 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "The US or Australia have no way of enforcing anything in Vanatu or Estonia."

      In the case of Estonia, they may have some incentives. Incentives like "If you'd like a free trade agreement.." or "If you'd like to join NATO..."

  27. Does it even work on dial-up? by yerricde · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'm surprised i don't see more mention of Gnucleus for file sharing. Why don't more people use this?

    On my dial-up connection, I was never able to start even one download with Gnucleus.

    I have been using it successfully for a long time

    Are you on dial-up or high-speed?

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
  28. The American idea of corporate everything by davinc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The interesting part of all of this seems to be an underlying belief that every human endeavor must be industrialized. I personally don't pay for shrink-wrapped music, and I never will. I gladly pay musicians by means of a tip charge, cover charge to get into a club, and by buying an occasional CD from the band if they are good. Record companies get nothing from me.

    Music isn't an industry, any more than art is. At the moment industry backed music chokes out the independents, leaving you with either corporate music, or having to search for independent music. I would listen to independents more, but I shouldn't have to work that hard to find music. Record labels gained power by getting access to OUR public airwaves and then monopolizing them, and attempts are being made to do the same with the Internet.

    I was a musician and lived in Hollywood for a few years. The current system turns music into prostitution, where the only way a band can ever be heard is to prostitute themselves to the labels. The Internet has to potential to return music to its traditional place as folk art, and that is what the labels are out to stop.

    Once people realize that music has been with us since the dawn of man, and doesn't need a corporate headquarters to exist and be good, then record companies will finally (and are) lose their grip.

  29. KaZaA is my hero by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Seriously... I have no respect left of KaZaA or the Music Industry.

    KaZaA would do anything to make money. The founders will move to strange countries with strange names. The will look into selling "my" hard-drive space and to physically take control of my computer and display ads that they feel are appropriate. I won't use KaZaA.

    The Music Industry would have me buy a cd that may or may not work everywhere that I would want to play it. Simply because they are so insecure about their product and the willingness of people to steal it. I have bought 3 cds in the past year and that was plenty for me to decide that I will never buy a cd again. Empower the user with your product... Don't reduce them down to nothing.

    that strange country could be nuked tomorrow and I wouldn't mourn the loss of KaZaA. Good friends, newsgroups, and IRC are 10x better than KaZaA... and I don't even have to look at Ads.

  30. Until Now? by m1a1 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Until now implies that something can be done if the judge rules in favor of Hollywood. This is simply untrue. As you can gather from the article, the CEO of Sharman Networks has not set foot in the U.S. and will not do so. Sure the company is on trial, but all that exists of them in the United States is lawyers. How they expect to get traditionally uncooperative countries to shut down servers I don't know. It will be interesting.

  31. Re:DC++ by fault0 · · Score: 3, Informative

    > I happen to be on one hub which requires 100gig verified share and 10mbit of bandwidth...

    Which is *very* easy to fake. I can grab dc_gui from here, install it, goto the user prefs tab, goto shares, change the size offset to 150.43 GB (or whatever you want), and add a virtual share directory of my current download directory.

    If I really did want to share anything, I could change the QOS settings to low cost IN the client, or add a very small upload bandwidth limit (minimum 0.5 kb/s in it)

  32. Estonia, safe haven? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Qutoed from the article:
    > Estonia, a notorious safe harbor for intellectual property pirates.

    That's a bunch of nonsense. The BSA (business software alliance) has a gestapo mentality in this land. They come with the police, they ride your place and they confiscate everything. And they put you into newspaper. There's even a special anonymous phone - call them, tell who to search - and that gives them enough power to go in with a police warrant.

    They spread leaflets - "are you a thief, we're soong coming to check you". They have TV ads, fear spam-campaings, etc.

    The primary problem with kazaa is that the US courts don't really have jurisdiction here. There isn't much they can do. They tried to get documents using our courts but their request was inconsistent according to the local judges.

  33. KaZaa vs. RIAA by Ab0rtRetryFail · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I have to agree with Zemran here. I think that the main reason why CD sales have decreased is that THEY ARE TOO EXPENSIVE. With the somewhat recent competition coming from DVDs and Video Games, the music industry MUST show that their products are worth the exorbitant sticker prices charged. It costs less than a dollar for a person to make a CD that ordinarily costs 14 to 19 dollars at a store. Prices are GROSSLY inflated. The RIAA can continue to attack these filesharing services, but they MUST find a way to either lower the price of CDs, add enough value to CDs to merit their price, or do both. If they don't, I expect the record industry to be supplanted by a more consumer-friendly method of distribution. ADAPT OR PERISH.

    1. Re:KaZaa vs. RIAA by Eric+Savage · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I see this over and over and over again, that CD's are too expensive. So a CD costs a dollar to make, big deal. There are thousands of other products that have low manufacturing costs with extremely high markup to cover product marketing and development, do you complain about all of them? Now I do think the recording industry is fighting the tide here, and that they need some fundamental changes. I'm not going to go off on the whole "function of the label" rant you've likely seen before, but there is a basic reason that CD's cost what they do and its from your first economics class:

      So lets say the overall cost of a CD including manufacturing, royalties, all the various channel costs, and promotion is about $5. CDs are now about $15, and I buy about 4 a month, with revenue of $60 and profit of $40. If CDs were $30, I'd probably buy one, revenue is $30, profit is $25, not a good move on the part of the label. Now, if CDs were $7, I'd probably buy a couple extra, but not alot extra because I just don't have time to listen to that many new ones and quite frankly, there are probably not enough good ones to satisfy that level of purchase. Now that the revenue is at $42 and the profit is at $12, someone at the label is going to get fired. Oh, and if it cost $7, you would either a) still say its too expensive or b) find a new reason to justify pirating, so they get nothing from you either way.

      Also, if charging $15 is so evil, how come every band I see selling CDs at their shows charges $10-15? Do you yell at them for "exorbitant" markup?

      --

      This is not the greatest sig in the world, this is just a tribute.
    2. Re:KaZaa vs. RIAA by MKalus · · Score: 2, Informative
      Also, if charging $15 is so evil, how come every band I see selling CDs at their shows charges $10-15? Do you yell at them for "exorbitant" markup?

      Those bands usually sell a lot less CDs AND at the same time foot the bill for the production and duplication themselves.

      Having said that, a CD that sells a million times shouldn't cost $15/piece, considering that thanks to mass production the profit is going up, no?

      --
      If you want to e-mail me, use my PGP Key.
    3. Re:KaZaa vs. RIAA by Eric+Savage · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You are exactly right, it doesn't really matter what the profit _margin_ is* which is why I wasn't talking about the margin. Its the bottom line. Do I care about their costs? No. I don't ask the car manufacturer how much its paying for rubber or steel, do you? If the price is agreeable to me, then I buy it. When I first started buying CDs back in 1987 or so, they cost about $18-20. Now, 15 years later, I'm paying about $15 ($11.88 for most new releases at Newbury Comics). Sounds to me like they are getting cheaper.

      Also, can some explain the logic in "Labels screw artists by giving them a small share, so I will pirate the music and make sure the artist gets zero"? If you mail the artist a few bucks for every album you grab off the net, my pardons, but I doubt that is commonplace.

      * I'm sure it matters but not as much as total profit

      --

      This is not the greatest sig in the world, this is just a tribute.
    4. Re:KaZaa vs. RIAA by lahna · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In Finland most records cost over 20 euros.

  34. Re:Read the article by fault0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    > Kazaa is, AFAIK, a closed-source proprietary network. This network is presumably written and maintained by a small staff of dedicated programmers.

    Unless the protocol is not broken, like it has been in the past (giFT 0.9.x). The main reason that the current protocol hasn't been broken yet is because 1). it's tough and time consuming to do, but not impossible 2). once it's done, the kazaa programmers could easily break it again, which they did in the past (KaZaA 1.3.3)

    If the kazaa programmers were taken out of the picture, I'm pretty sure that groups like the "givers" who broke the protocol before, would do it again.

  35. Hypocrites Suck Too by SuperMario666 · · Score: 2

    You do realize that if all everyone did was leech then the entire system would collapse right??

    Exactly the same argument used by the music and entertainment industries, but they're evil so it's OK to "leech" off them.

  36. Flip the script by TheJZA · · Score: 2, Funny

    Is there a way that can we can just get rid off the MPAA instead.

    --
    The JZA
  37. P2P Needs a More Secure Base (e.g. FreeNetProject) by jdkane · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Given the cases of late where big-name companies are sniffing out and trying to also legally charge P2P "offenders", I would like to see increased security, not in the form of SSL/encryption -- because that won't help when IP numbers are still available -- but instead I would like to see an implementation of P2P clients that run on top of the FreeNet project, or something similar. http://freenetproject.org Here's a brief description from the FreeNet project website to provide some context:

    What is FreeNet?
    Freenet is a large-scale peer-to-peer network which pools the power of member computers around the world to create a massive virtual information store open to anyone to freely publish or view information of all kinds. Freenet is:
    * Highly survivable: All internal processes are completely anonymized and decentralized across the global network, making it virtually impossible for an attacker to destroy information or take control of the system.
    * Private: Freenet makes it extremely difficult for anyone to spy on the information that you are viewing, publishing, or storing.
    * Secure: Information stored in Freenet is protected by strong cryptography against malicious tampering or counterfeiting.

    Supposedly, being on the FreeNet provides total anonymity because the protocols are encrypted from the ground up. You can't know where stuff is coming from and where stuff is going. This prevents spying, even by rogue clients. The content on FreeNet is hosted by every computer that is connected to the FreeNet at the time. You have a data store on your computer when you are connected to the FreeNet, but it is encrypted so you can't know what content from the FreeNet is being hosted on your computer (which brings up other issues). Of course nobody else can supposedly tell either.

    I don't know the implications, or even if it is a feasible task to port P2P to FreeNet, but I think something like this is a necessary step as time marches on and as the red tape and legal woes thicken. (Maybe the implicit anonymous nature of the FreeNet doesn't allow for the same P2P processes to work -- then again maybe it's ideal) .Right now FreeNet is very slow and the last time I used it (version 0.4) was buggy. However I haven't tried the latest 0.5 release.

    Of course this won't necessarily prevent the companies that create and distrubute the P2P software from being prosectued. However it might provide the anonymity that these companies need to distribute their software and keep operating -- provided they don't make themselves known to the public. If they are not known, then nobody can find them. Which begs the question: Then how would these companies get advertising revenue if nobody knows about them? Well, they could advertise on a webpage on the FreeNet and accept credit card payments over the FreeNet, and then the advertiser's content would magically appear in the P2P application. This would take a lot of trust on behalf of the advertisers.

    Just a thought. I'd like to hear a response from developers who are involved with the FreeNet project and/or P2P clients about the feasibility of all this.

  38. An interesting thought.. by hklingon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I had an interesting thought the other day. Hang with me for a moment...

    If I hear a song on the radio, and I record it. That is okay. If I record something off the TV antenna, that is also ok.

    Now consider companies like Clear Channel, whose only goal is to cover every square inch of the US's surface area with the same radio stations. Theoretically, 88.9 in Podunk, USA, is the same as 88.9 in San Francisco, Tacoma, Buffalo, etc. Now, I'm wandering around, going to work, etc. being bombarded with these radio stations, and these television broadcasts, so, if I were recording everything broadcast to me, I'd probably have copies of all the latest music and some popular television programs. Now suppose, through corporate machinery, prettymuch the same opportunity were available to each and every American Citizen. What copyright gripe could the media companies have?

    I realize the nature of copyright is such that I cannot redistribute works that are copyrighted. I can't find it on findlaw, but it seems like someone was caught selling stuff that had been broadcast (the superbowl, I think) that he had recorded. If memory serves, the ruling was something like new audiences were being created for the copyrighted work, audiences the original copyright holder was entitled to. But what if at every corner of the US you can pick up Clear Channel?

    Better yet--what if I start a TiVo type service. We make you sign lots of paper work and we verify where you live. We have a computer program and a schedule of all content on broadcasts you can receive. Our computer records it, and lets you download it from our website. I'd expect the FBI to haul me away and lock up the key--but I don't think it is (or should be) illegal. What exactly has happened here? The people we're serving have a right to the content, we've just automated the time-shift of when that content is delivered to them. We'll even include the commercials, though for single songs people might want, this won't work as a lot of radio stations have moved their commercials to about once per hour or once per half-hour.

    As far as quality goes, I wonder if Sattelite radio is obscured behind some sort of "terms of service" agreement that you agree to listen in exchange for not recording at all.

  39. It's all about the bandwidth anyway... by Kjella · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Roughly 100% of those I know with broadband pirate stuff.

    Roughly 0% of those I know with dial-up download stuff, they ask those above for a burned CD, but often they don't like asking for hand-outs.

    Why? Speed. It's not about whether Napster / KaZaA / WinMX or whatever is easy to use or anything. As more and more people get/want broadband the faster it goes. What RIAA is doing is like playing Whack-A-Mole on a game machine that keeps going faster and faster.

    Pretty soon, you can have so much stuff that if you're caught, you're bankrupt. 200gb of mp3s to $2/song (about full retail price here :p)? That'll be a $130.000+interest, thank you.

    I'm pretty sure you can manage to do so already with books. Oh that's 200gb of e-books, only 1 kazillion dollars for you.

    Kjella

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  40. "Power users." by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 5, Funny

    I don't care about being a power user or not. I want to be on as diverse a P2P network as possible, to have the best chance of find relatively obscure work. Being able to use a back-propagating learning neural network that reassembles fragmented downloads intelligently and learns bad host IDs is useless to me if I am on a P2P network limited to Rush fans.

  41. Another Article from the Entertainment Biz by TarPitt · · Score: 4, Interesting
    The Los Angeles Business Journal has a front page article about the menace of file sharing, and what the Entertainment Business (note: always capitalized in Los Angeles, a pure company town) is doing about it.


    Quote:


    The recording industry already has blamed illicit music file swapping for keeping as much as $5 billion from its coffers since 1999.

    But it gets much worse. With the number of households installing high-speed Internet access - the key component in moving large data files - projected to nearly triple within four years, the music business faces the prospect of mammoth losses and little assurance that its counterattacks to piracy will have much effect.


    For the entire article, try this

    --
    If your children ever found out how lame you are, they'd murder you in your sleep
  42. And the Internet Made an Enemy by Peter_Pork · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The world media corporations are scared to death of the Internet and how file sharing is quickly decreasing their revenue. At some point they are going to realize that the Internet, as we know it today, is their main enemy (rather than just file sharing applications). Don't you think they will try really hard to lobby for killing the Internet? I know, I know, they can and they do sell content on-line, but the threat is too great, and they may push really hard to create a new network with such draconian control that no piracy will take place. Do you think this is a real threat? Will they succeed? As a first step, they could simply buy a few of the major ISPs (most are bankrupt) and impose content filtering. They certainly have enough money to fight this war...

  43. My Experience by f0rt0r · · Score: 2

    I once came upon some edonkey links while searching for music videos, and decided to give it a try ( to get the videos ). After loading the authors version of Edonkey and doing some searches plus clicking on edonkey link to queue up file, I wound up with nothing. It may have been a config problem, though I searched through message boards and check out issue/resolution posts. Still nothing. I even resorted to the basic searches like *.mpg, *.mp3, etc and still nothing.

    In comparison, Kazaa(using Kazaa lite ) may not always turn up what I am looking for. But it is much better than Zero hits, and I think that is due to its popularity. Suprisingly, Shareza does a good job also, though I have to wait a bit to find peers and supernodes to connect to. On linux I have only used Qtella, which also works fine in regards to returning results to my searchs.

    I digressed a bit by mentioning other P2P networks, but I am in a comparison mood right now, so I compared all the ones I used so far.

    Question - is there a "kazaa-lite" for (Mandrake)Linux? I would love to try out their network while on my favorite OS.

    F0rt0r
    Sig Impaired and Proud of It!

    --
    I can't afford a sig!
  44. mail your stolen music back to the MPAA by gelfling · · Score: 5, Funny

    I call on all thieves to email their ill gotten gains back to the MPAA. I have about 300GB that I should send back to them and if the rest of you criminals did the same we could solve this scourge on society once and fer-all.

  45. The War Is On by NetGyver · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Ah, you took the five steps ahead approch to this. I do not doubt that your doomsday end-result isn't likely to happen, on the contrary, it will happen--it's just a matter of time.

    However, this thing we call piracy is nothing new. Closed circle casual piracy, like casual sex will always be around, however now we see a change that's been brewing since Napster came to power, we're now seeing MASS piracy, MASS amounts of people engaging in IP violations. This says something about the media conglomos themselves, this says something about how the consumer trend is changing, and this says something about IP/copyright laws in general.

    The sides are polarizing, and what used to be a decent civilization of consumers and content creators has now de-evolved into a new "Wild West".

    Let them come, Let the RIAA/MPAA start suing consumers who utilize p2p in their spare time. I don't think you fully understand what kind of shit storm that would rain down on the entertainment industry once this starts. Why do you think they've been trying to shutdown the sites instead of suing the users?? Not because they love us, but because of massively BAD PR. There are MILLIONS, and MILLIONS of p2p file swappers....Some old, some young, some with good paying jobs, some without.
    Some with a grudge against the "man" and some who just want to actually get to know what they are buying before they buy it. And there are others in between.

    Once you label all these diverse people as "criminals" or "thieves", or even imply that they are (people in the crossfire for example)they will ALL revolt.
    And that's not all, there are people in the crossfire here that have nothing to do with p2p that will get hurt too. CD-R taxation, ISP being taxed and therefore the costs are past on to your grandma out in montana on dialup who googles only for cross stich patterns. And when they look at what's going on, they'll blame the person who's behind the jacking of the connection costs--The ISP, and once the ISP gets enough heat on them, then they bitch back at the RIAA/MPAA...then after the news media gets wind of all of this...MORE people try out p2p, and more people see how obnoxious the tactics of the MPAA/RIAA are, and the cycle continues to escalate.

    The "general populace" you speak of *is* engaged in this activity.

    Far too many people spend time on their polar sides to understand what is going on here. The RIAA is taking fair use away, the MPAA extending copyrights every time they're about to expire, price fixing of CDs, obnoxious bands on payola radio, overly restrictive DRM on CDs, the list goes on and on, but that's just to name a few.

    Something has to give or this will fester at a exponetial rate. People will be hunted down and fined/jailed, the RIAA will be bleeding red ink, their will still be fabucated crap on the radio. There will be rallies in the streets and online, mass dissent among consumers, and most of all, new laws that will bring new restrictions on things that we thought were safe.

    Look at it this way, the whole p2p idea sprung up out of practically no where, and jetted into the internet's mainstream practically overnight. Yet, the RIAA has been working the same business model for multiple decades. If you don't move fast enough and change enough, your consumers will either fuck you, or leave you. And p2p users who are and who used to be media consumers are doing them both. That tells me that something is wrong on the content holder's side. But that isn't to say they should heed to the "pirate's" wishes, all i'm saying is both sides have better start looking for compromises before it becomes to late.

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    A Penny for my thoughts? Here's my two cents. I got ripped off!
    1. Re:The War Is On by Snaller · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Once you label all these diverse people as "criminals" or "thieves", or even imply that they are (people in the crossfire for example)they will ALL revolt.

      No they won't - people mostly don't give a damn, and almost never get together about anything.


      therefore the costs are past on to your grandma out in montana on dialup who googles only for cross stich patterns.


      She can try this one:

      --
      If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
  46. Re:P2P Needs a More Secure Base (e.g. FreeNetProje by CvD · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The technology behind FreeNet is very cool, very well thought out, except for one thing: searching. You can't really search for arbitrary strings like most apps. They are working on it, but a good solution is yet to come out of it.

    There are some indexing services, but they need to grow and get a user community behind them (like FileNexus and ShareReactor for eDonkey/Overnet)

    If they got that going, it'd be interesting... but then you would still be restricted to searching in what was in the releases index... which would not reflect everything that is available.

    Cheers

  47. Complaining about Leeching on P2P... Funny. by Mulletproof · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I mean really, you hardly have anything to complain about here, using a quasi-illegal program to share music you shouldn't, by law, be sharing in the first place. Please feel free to drop the hypocritical facade any time your ready. So while you engage in semi-illegal file transfers, people are leeching files from you in a similar manner. I call that "Irony".

    Move along, nothing to see here.

    --
    You need a FREE iPod Nano
  48. Re:I've just been using USENET. by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 2, Insightful

    One does wonder why Usenet is yet to be sued. It far predates Napster. Does it in some way pass a legal challenge that Napster didn't, or is it considered just too arcane for Joe College-Student to use in ripping off the starving record companies?

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  49. Piracy and Copyright Infringement by UberQwerty · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Let's not go throwing around insults without understanding what they mean.

    "...committing priacy and copyright..."

    Both of these are violations of the law, but so what? Law is not the same as Right, and in fact, it has often been the opposite. It's possible to argue that music sharing amounts to civil disobedience, which all political theorists (who are not currently in power) will tell you is a Good Thing. Let's remember that a Good Thing is what's best for people in general, not what's best for the coorporations.

    Here's how to make that argument:
    Obviously, the system won't work if everyone gets their music for free. The recording companies won't make any profit, and people in general won't hear well-recorded music at all. This, however, does not by itself justify the bullshit that recording companies are putting us through. It is entirely possible for most people to get their music for free, and a few to pay for it.
    People like CDs. They like the package, the booklet, the pictures. So, it's likely that of the people who download lots of free music, those of them who can afford to will buy the CDs they particularly like. Since about $17 of every $20 CD is pure profit for the record company, they really don't have to sell to a very high percentage of their audience. Some people say that this is the reason why record sales were at a peak before Napster died, and have dropped off since. I, personally, bought 5 of the 7 RIAA CDs I own because I heard the music first for free, illegally.
    That would lead us to believe that we'd all be better off with filesharing/ piracy, even the giant rich companies everyone hates. Besides, making it illegal is like prohibition - now the only people who purvey shared files are themselves criminals, and can't be trusted. We all know what Kazaa tries to do to our computers.

    <rant>

    Another (moderatly less convincing) way to make this argument is to say that those &^%*& record companies shouldn't charge so much. Maybe if they charged a reasonable amount, like $7, for each CD, more peopel would buy. The reason this is less likely to convince is that free market capitalists will argue that the all-knowing public in this, our idealized capitalistic economy, would have counteracted any selfish moves of the businesses and prices will have already reached their equillibrium. The fact is that this just isn't true; the music industry, just like most others in America, is an oligopily, which functions just like a monopoly except that it avoids the letter of the law against monopolies.

    </rant>

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    PUBLIC SPLIT ON WHETHER BUSH IS A DIVIDER -CNN scrolling banner, 10/15/2004