Slashdot Mirror


Nickel Sensors Could Raise Hard Disk Capacity

Makarand writes "Tiny filaments of nickel, thinner than a wavelength of visible light, acting as magnetic sensors may expand the storage capacity of hard disks many times. Although, technologies exist to increase hard disk capacity, reading data bits reliably from such disks has proven difficult because as data bits become smaller their magnetic fields are weaker and difficult to pick up. Nickel filaments are capable of picking up of these weak magnetic fields using a phenomenon called "ballistic magnetoresistance" which is not completely understood. As the sensors are only a few atoms wide the electrons travel along a straight line in the conductor greatly enhancing the binary signal picked up from the data bits. These sensors could also be used to detect biomolecules in low concentrations."

198 comments

  1. What's that I smell? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Ah yes, a sweet first posting.

    1. Re:What's that I smell? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      No it wasn't sweet. It was umami.

  2. first by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    post ????

  3. Bloody hell. by caluml · · Score: 3, Funny

    Tiny filaments of nickel, thinner than a wavelength of visible light,

    Is it just me or are we getting too clever? :)
    Soon we'll be storing gigabytes on a single atom...

    1. Re:Bloody hell. by wideBlueSkies · · Score: 1

      So how many Libraries Of Congress will we be able to save on a medium the size of an O'Reilly book?

      --
      Huh?
    2. Re:Bloody hell. by Genyin · · Score: 1

      So how many Libraries Of Congress will we be able to save on a medium the size of an O'Reilly book?
      42

    3. Re:Bloody hell. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is it just me or are we getting too clever? :)

      It's just you. Some people do some clever things, but you don't have anything to do with it. Cheers.

    4. Re:Bloody hell. by Wolfrider · · Score: 1

      --Yep. I don't think they should be attempting this with MAGNETIC storage tech. We already have 7200 RPM disks that are failing in a year. Let's go to the next level, people...

      --3D holographic storage, anyone? ...Bueller?

      --
      .
      == WolfriderV6 == I'm willing to admit that *I just might* be wrong... Are you??
  4. Spin states by SirCrashALot · · Score: 4, Informative

    That depends on how many spins an atom can have at once:) Welcome to the world of quatum mechanics.

  5. Is it wise ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful


    To store critical (or any data of some value ie: not junk) data on technology that is so vunurable to external forces if the technology is so small/fragile ?

    wouldnt it be better to concentrate on more reliable rather than greater storage ?

    1. Re:Is it wise ? by TheSHAD0W · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, making this stuff smaller has made it LESS fragile, not more. Less weight and shorter distance from bearing points means less torque and strain. 5-1/4" HDs were quite fragile, but 2.5" laptop drives are very hardy. And just try causing a head-crash on a Microdrive.

      I suspect, if this technology ever makes it to market, it'll be in a package that keeps it nice and safe.

    2. Re:Is it wise ? by swordgeek · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Hmm. Several points come to mind.

      1) So what's so unreliable about current storage? Disks can and do eventually die, but so do ***ALL*** mechanical devices. The magnetic lifespan of a disk is not clearly the limiting factor in the life of a hard drive. Half of the drives I replace die as a fail to spin up properly--not something we like to see, but an indication that the short life of the magnetic states aren't the most unreliable part of a hard drive.

      2) I don't see any indication that this is 'fragile' technology, on the macroscopic scale. Sure the signals are smaller, but once you reliably detect them they can be amplified ad nauseum, and reliable detection is what this is all about.

      3) Large scale enterprise storage in our current realm of thinking, requires high speed access and high reliability, and does NOT involve single drives. Hardware RAID5, RAID 1+0, RAID 5+0 (I've seen it done!) etc. is the way to get high reliability and high performance. Having a single hard drive, even one that's 100% reliable, isn't a reasonable storage solution for mission critical data, and so consequently there's not a lot of demand for a 100% reliable hard drive.

      --

      "People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
    3. Re:Is it wise ? by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 5, Funny
      To store critical (or any data of some value ie: not junk) data on technology that is so vunurable to external forces if the technology is so small/fragile ?

      There was a brief time a few decades ago when the essence of my entire being was contained in a single molecule, with no backups! Luckily, I made it through that episode relatively unscathed.

      Ever since then, I've been making backups like crazy.

    4. Re:Is it wise ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice try, but you're incorrect. A single cell yes, and if you elect to believe that 46 chromosomes comprise your entire being you could reasonably say 46 molecules (but you'd be wrong, because you'd ignore mitochondrial DNA, let alone the equally important cell machinery - or for that matter the uterine environment, all of which was "part of you" at that point). But it's a looooong time since we were all a single molecule.

    5. Re:Is it wise ? by shogun · · Score: 4, Funny

      There was a brief time a few decades ago when the essence of my entire being was contained in a single molecule, with no backups! Luckily, I made it through that episode relatively unscathed.
      Ever since then, I've been making backups like crazy.


      I'm yet to make any fully redundant backups myself as opposed to your incremental ones, however I fear there may have %50 data loss in any such backups and the data space will have to be shared with someone elses.

    6. Re:Is it wise ? by YU+Nicks+NE+Way · · Score: 1

      You only have one chromosome and reproduce asexually? Wow! /. news for bugs, stuff that infects.

    7. Re:Is it wise ? by anethema · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Maybe that says that we should be concentrating on fast solid state storage rather than trying to minimize the stuff we have now. Hard drives are currently the slowest and most unreliable equipment in our PCs today. Sounds like thats the bottleneck scientists should be working on.

      --


      It's easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
    8. Re:Is it wise ? by NETHED · · Score: 1

      I head crashed a MicroDrive with a stern look.

      --
      --sig fault--
    9. Re:Is it wise ? by michael_cain · · Score: 1
      Amusing, yes, but not entirely accurate. At best you were contained in 46 molecules, each chromosome being a separate DNA molecule. Actually, you were never less than a single cell, made up of a very large number of molecules, including complex structures like mitochondria which are critical to cell function but do not appear to be coded for in regular DNA.

      I'd like to take this opportunity to thank my mother for my mitochondria, and to thank my wife for providing my kids with mitochondria, since Dad and I (and males in general) can't be bothered with such picky little details...

    10. Re:Is it wise ? by rtaylor · · Score: 2, Funny

      The backup process isn't so bad -- but have you tried a restore yet?

      --
      Rod Taylor
    11. Re:Is it wise ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I absolutley agree. We should forget about this technology stuff and store all critcall data as engravings in stone tablets.

    12. Re:Is it wise ? by red_dragon · · Score: 1

      I head crashed a MicroDrive with a stern look.

      The Magnum?

      --
      In Soviet Russia, Jesus asks: "What Would You Do?"
    13. Re:Is it wise ? by Thomas+M+Hughes · · Score: 1
      Having a single hard drive, even one that's 100% reliable, isn't a reasonable storage solution for mission critical data...
      Sorry to nit-pick, but if a drive is 100% reliable, then it will never, ever fail. Maybe you meant like 99.9999% or something. But if its 100% reliable, that means its 100% reliable. Though, nothing is ever 100%.
    14. Re:Is it wise ? by Nevermore-Spoon · · Score: 1

      Generally speaking a drive that is 100% reliable probably isn't 100% fireproof

      --
      I have great faith in fools; My friends call it self-confidence. Edgar Allan Poe 1809-1845
    15. Re:Is it wise ? by Wolfrider · · Score: 1

      --Ya know, there's actually *some* merit to that... Stone lasts for THOUSANDS OF YEARS.

      --
      .
      == WolfriderV6 == I'm willing to admit that *I just might* be wrong... Are you??
    16. Re:Is it wise ? by swordgeek · · Score: 1

      No no no. You're missing my point entirely.

      I mean 100% reliable. A theoretical 100% reliable. Data will never go sour or get corrupted. Ever.

      In that mythical case, it's still not a good storage solution. 100% data reliability doesn't factor in a bomb or a fire. Nor does it factor in the potential of a power loss (which might not affect reliability, but will affect availability), or for that matter, the limit of a single connection to the computer.

      My point is that there are many reasons for using multiple hard drives in multiple cabinets OTHER than just reliability.

      --

      "People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
  6. Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Tiny filaments of nickel, thinner than a wavelength of visible light

    Then how do we know they're there?

    1. Re:Huh? by comptrav · · Score: 4, Informative

      Visual light takes up just a small segment of the electromagnetic spectrum. There are shorter wavelengths they can use to detect it.

    2. Re:Huh? by Andorion · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Notice the above was modded +1 Funny, not +1 Insightful

      -Berj

    3. Re:Huh? by Drakula · · Score: 2, Informative

      Using a Scanning Electron Microscope (SEM) or an Atomic Force Micoscope (AFM) would be my guess.

      --
      "It's comin' back around again..." -RATM
    4. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...look at it from another angle?
      It's a thin plane not a point in space.

    5. Re:Huh? by Jugalator · · Score: 1

      Still, it says "thinner" than a wavelength. It would make more sense if it said "shorter" than a wavelength.

      --
      Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
  7. Ballistic? by TheSHAD0W · · Score: 3, Funny

    I dunno... First we had giant magnetoresistance, then colossal magnetoresistance... Ballistic just doesn't seem to fit. We should call it gargantuan magnetoresistance, or Herculean... I know! Let's call it "humongous magnetoresistance"!

    1. Re:Ballistic? by iomud · · Score: 2, Funny

      I vote for ludicrous magnetoresistance.

    2. Re:Ballistic? by modecx · · Score: 3, Funny

      Our platters have gone plaid!

      --
      Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
    3. Re:Ballistic? by Drakula · · Score: 1

      Using scanning electron microsopy (SEM) would be my guess.

      --
      "It's comin' back around again..." -RATM
    4. Re:Ballistic? by Drakula · · Score: 0

      Oops...

      Posted to wrong message, sorry.

      --
      "It's comin' back around again..." -RATM
    5. Re:Ballistic? by rtscts · · Score: 1

      Sounds like the HDD mfr's are collecting powerups...

      Berserker magnetoresistence!

    6. Re:Ballistic? by pacc · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Ballistic doesn't refer to any new physical principle. It's the fact that the nickel layer is just a few nm thick that removes statistical properties such as resistance since there just aren't enough atoms in the thin layer for electrons to collide with, hence ballistic electrons. Prepare for ballistic transistors when they grow sufficiently small.

    7. Re:Ballistic? by baldysm · · Score: 1

      Atleast use something original for terminology. Humongous magentoresistance musta been used by either Spiderman or Iron Man comic strips.

  8. You Monsters! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    How can you care about something as trivial as hard disk capacity when 7 astronauts are dead and our nation is on the brink of war. Is America really that heartless and indifferent? If so, I'm quickly losing what little faith in humanity I had remaining.

    1. Re:You Monsters! by alpha17 · · Score: 0

      "If you can't move on with your life the terrorists have won!"

      get a grip. people die every day

    2. Re:You Monsters! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that happened a while ago... and the nation isn't on the brink of war... George W. Bush is on the bring of sending us into war... Do you know what slashdot is? Its a news site about technology.. you must watch so much cnn that you actually like seing repeats of the same story.. but little do you know people in the real world move on.

  9. I hope IBM don't have anything to do with this... by Zog+The+Undeniable · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...as I had the first HDD failure warning this evening on my "auto destruct after 12 months" IBM 60GXP. I wouldn't mind so much if it had been hammered, but it's in a PC that gets used about twice a month. Does 99.9% of the population care less about the availability of 200GB hard drives? Surely the priority should be data security, then speed (it's the biggest bottleneck in your PC), then capacity?

    --
    When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
  10. Advances in storage technology by Karamchand · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Where and when will I - a normal consumer - be able to notice all those fantastic advances, like pixie dust, nickel filaments etc.? Sure, I notice a nice increase in storage capacity, a decrease in cost (and a warranty decrease;) - but nowhere I can see fantastic, large changes!

    1. Re:Advances in storage technology by Cali+Thalen · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Computer evolution is starting to look like biological evolution (sorry to all the Creationists...)

      Back when computers were akin to our old 1-cell relatives, it didn't take much to have a serious jump in usefulness. But now that they (and we) are vastly more complicated, significant improvements in individual aspects of the technology don't seem to affect the whole system as much, so they seem so much less exciting.

      As I see it, progress is going to be coming more and more in small steps, taking much longer to affect a huge change.

      But please, feel free to prove me wrong, I'd love to see the kind of jumps in usefulness that compters experienced back in the 80's.

      --
      Chaos, panic, disorder...my work here is done.
    2. Re:Advances in storage technology by Ramze · · Score: 1

      Considering our knowledge of the universe is expanding exponentially, I'd be willing to bet computers will still see an exponential growth in speed until we hit the nanotech level, then as we learn new methods of organizing structures at taht level and develop new methods of programming, we'll continue to move along at a steady rate of increased usefulness.

    3. Re:Advances in storage technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      um, I would like to know of an other field where this is happening. For example when Car and plains first came out they improved fast(inspite of ford), but slowed down later. and continue to slow.They are slower to adapt new technology. I think this pattern can be seen in almost every thing. Look at the internet.

    4. Re:Advances in storage technology by Jerf · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you haven't seen the advances then you haven't been looking. The recent sudden jump to hundreds of gigabytes on the cheap, for instance, is AFAIK the result of this IBM research. Yes, that article talks about 16.8 GB drives but that was just the first one available under that technology; I believe it is used in all high-capacity drives now.

      There is no real marketing benefit to describing the real tech behind such devices, only assigning them buzzwords and hyping them up, so you only see stupid buzzwords.

      The computer industry is actually very good about getting major advances in the hands of consumers on a time scale measured in months after the practical advances are made.

    5. Re:Advances in storage technology by PetWolverine · · Score: 1

      I agree completely. The concept of a graphical interface is still the biggest advance in interface design ever seen, and it happened how many decades ago? Going from tapes to disks was a huge leap, but if (and it's a big if) we ever see such a huge conceptual leap in data storage techniques again, there's no way we'll ever see such incredible performance (meaning speed, reliability and capacity) increases from a single advance.

      That's not to say we won't see large, gradual advances...as your analogy implies, the difference between today's storage and tomorrow's could be the difference between a slime mold and a sparrow.

      --
      I found the meaning of life the other day, but I had write-only access.
    6. Re:Advances in storage technology by Saeger · · Score: 1
      Actually, you're suffering from a bit of nearsightedness.

      You see, the automobile and aircraft belong to the set of all transportation - which is what you should be comparing computing to - so when one form of transportation seems to have hit a plateau, another form always picks up where the former left off. What you end up with is a series of overlapping S-curves which underlies the overall exponential increase in progress. It's this pattern which you should be aware of.

      Legpower -> Horsepower -> Railroad -> Automobile -> Airplane -> Jetliner -> Chemical Rocket -> Ion Propulsion -> FTL. Speed and capability increasing exponentially...

      Same with computing:

      Electromechanical -> Relay -> Vacuum Tubes -> Transistor -> ICs -> building 3D circuits instead of 2D -> etc.

      --

      --
      Power to the Peaceful
    7. Re:Advances in storage technology by k98sven · · Score: 1

      Computer evolution is starting to look like biological evolution (sorry to all the Creationists...)

      What do you mean?
      On the sixth day (1986), God created a computer in his image.

      The Amiga.

    8. Re:Advances in storage technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But then God killed it - perhaps it slept with angels or refused to kill a C-64 when asked to??

      It then took a mere ~10 years for the Devil (MS) to offer a pre-emtive, multitasking, OS...

    9. Re:Advances in storage technology by mmol_6453 · · Score: 1

      I thought he created a backup in his image. Pity it's been corrupted and repaired so many times.

      --
      What's this Submit thingy do?
  11. New HD technology! by apoc.famine · · Score: 4, Funny

    If I had a nickel for every time...

    --
    Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
  12. Which one to pick? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's always important when matters aren't entirely understood to choose carefully, namely the one in possession of the puffy little shoes.

  13. Of course by mccalli · · Score: 3, Funny
    The more nickels you apply, the higher capacity hard drive you will get.

    Phhh. I knew that and I'm not even American...

    Cheers,
    Ian

    1. Re:Of course by T-Kir · · Score: 1

      I suppose that idea also works with the time diminishing Hard Drive warranties we seem to be getting now.

      --
      Are you local? There's nothing for you here!
    2. Re:Of course by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At the risk of leaning too off-topic (but I find it a little interesting, from a historical perspective), the term "nickel" applied to the five-cent piece doesn't actually have American origins, but was first a Canadian term. The Canadian five-cent piece was originally made, in part, from nickel (mostly mined in Sudbury, Ontario, I believe; the home of the "giant nickel".) Thus, the name stuck. It's one of the few pieces of linguistic usage which managed to travel south across the border.

      Conversely, the term "dime" (applied to the ten-cent piece) apparently has American origins, but, of course, also fell into common usage in Canada.

  14. GET SOME PRIORITIES!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    The most horrible space tragedy in recorded history occured one day ago, and all you people can do is talk about whether nickel can raise disk capacity? My *god*, folks, get some priorities here!

    1. Re:GET SOME PRIORITIES!!! by alpha17 · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      People die every day. do you complain like this every time?

      get a life not the one news television sells you.

    2. Re:GET SOME PRIORITIES!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      Allah be praised

    3. Re:GET SOME PRIORITIES!!! by Iguanaphobic · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      Then I guess we should all still be talking about this:

      Bus Crash Kills 27.

      Speaking of priorities...

      --
      Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power.
    4. Re:GET SOME PRIORITIES!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      You people make me sick. It's no time for joking. I hope when America goes after the people responsible for this, they take out a few nerf toy playing, lego building, video game buying faggot little 5-year-old acting geeks as well.

      GROW THE FUCK *UP*, PEOPLE. GET A FUCKING LIFE, GEEKS!

    5. Re:GET SOME PRIORITIES!!! by byrnespd · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      Priorities? You mean a tangent discussion on a drunk driving crash that happened over 10 years ago? I'm sorry, I think we all missed your point; not to mention the fact this has absolutely nothing to do with HDD density and new technology. By your rationale, we shouldn't be discussing anything but this on /.

    6. Re:GET SOME PRIORITIES!!! by byrnespd · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      Oops, accidentally mistook your message for the parent, sorry about that. I still mean what I said, just transfer it to the parent message and the space shuttle explosion.

    7. Re:GET SOME PRIORITIES!!! by freestyle-fiend · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      More than seven people have suffered horrible deaths this week. As a non-American, I won't be attatching any particular significance to such a small number of deaths.

      If you cared about people other than astronauts, then you would find that tragedy occurred so often that we would have to mourn constantly and we wouldn't have any time to avert future tragedies.

    8. Re:GET SOME PRIORITIES!!! by Iguanaphobic · · Score: 0, Troll

      You'll notice that this entire thread got bitchslapped. Including all of the posts that were on topic to the parent.

      --
      Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power.
    9. Re:GET SOME PRIORITIES!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, because it's a "space" tragedy, it deserves attention, but wars, train wrecks, car crashes, suicide bombings, and disease somehow don't?

      If you are so upset because 6 people died, how do you function when real "tragedies" happen?

  15. An Open Source Solution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    Zack looked at the other four men around the table, sipping his beer. "I swear, if I EVER get that bitch alone again," he said, "I'm gonna show her what happens to a cock-tease!"

    "Fuck her," said Steve. "Fuck her AND her bitch mother. I hear that her husband left her way back when 'cause she'd only ever let him fuck her so that she could have a little bitch daughter all her own."

    "Sounds right," said Dan. "Man, right on second base, and mom walks in on us... and Terry and her bitch mother are all smiling and laughing, and me with a hard-on that would break boards, man..."

    Five men, all with the same story. A teasing little teenager, bringing them back home, getting them all hot and bothered, and then laughing as her mother came in, and threw them out, hard and wanting.

    "Tell you something," said Brad, as he sipped his fifth beer, "we should do something about it."

    They looked at each other, and started to smile. A plan started to form, and over the next few days, as the beer dissipated, the plan remained, and grew. Terry Smith and her bitch mother, Marian, were going to have a really bad day, really soon.

    After a couple of weeks of preparation, the five conspirators were ready. Three of them put on ski masks and dark clothes, and waited at the Smith house. It was a nice, big place, purchased with the money Marion got from the divorce settlement. They'd watched it for over a week, getting the schedule down. Marion would come home from her office in the middle of the day, working very close. This time, when she pulled into her garage, however, three men ducked in behind her car as the garage door closed. They stayed low, so she couldn't see them... until it was too late. As she stepped out of the car, Steve stepped up, and before she could scream, he hit her in the stomach with the stun gun.

    She collapsed to the hard concrete floor, body trembling from the pain, and the three men went to work. Taking her keys, they opened up her trunk, bound her wrists and ankles with rope, stuffed a rag into her mouth, and taped it in place with duct tape. Then they threw her in the trunk, and slammed it.

    Half an hour later, after having themselves a nice lunch out of her refrigerator, Steve drove her car to the adult bookstore on the outskirts of town where they'd been making their preparations. One down, one to go!

    Brad and Dan waited in the house. Terry would come home after school in the little red convertible her dad's money had bought her, park on the street, and come in the front door. Every day, like clockwork. Today was no exception, except that when she went to the kitchen, Brad and Dan were waiting in the pantry. She barely had time to yelp before she, too, was hit with the stun gun. Brad bound the chesty teenager while Dan went and got their car. They put her in the trunk, bound and gagged, in the garage, and then they carefully and casually drove to the bookstore. Fun time had arrived!

    The doors of the adult bookstore were closed for a while, and the "Open" sign turned off. Marian, fully recovered by the time they took her out of the trunk, was kicking and screaming as she was brought in the back door, through the supply room, and into one of the video booths. Zack and Dan carried her in, laughing the whole time. No more ski masks. It wasn't going to matter if she recognized them.

    In fact, it was great that she did.

    Once in the booth, they forced her to the seat, and held the stun gun to her chest.

    "Now stay the hell quiet," said Zack. He turned on the video screen, which wasn't showing the usual assortment of porn. What it showed was an overhead view into two booths, side by side, from a hidden camera in the ceiling. "If you make a sound, I swear to god I'll fry you with this thing."

    Marian, remembering the pain of the stun gun, sat still, fuming. She watched the screen, looking around, occasionally, for her chance to escape.

    On the screen, she saw three men bringing Terry into one of the booths! She started to protest through her gag, but Zack just prodded her in the tit with the prongs of the stun gun, and she quieted down, eyes wide. What were they going to do?

    Terry struggled against her bonds, and the three men that held her, to no avail. She'd been tied very well. Brad and Steve held her down on her back on the bench in the booth, as Carl pulled a long knife, and started to cut away her clothes.

    Marian's pleadings started again. Zack let them go on for a minute, kind of enjoying them, before he grabbed the front of Marian's blouse, ripped it open, and hit her on the bare flesh of her left tit, above her bra, with the stun gun. She doubled over, her scream cut off by the gag and the horrible tightness of her shocked muscles. When she was able to unbend again, Terry was naked and bound, her big tits jiggling as she struggled against the three attackers in her booth.

    "It's time your daughter found out what happens to chicks to cock-tease all the time," said Zack. "And you too, for that matter."

    They pulled the gag out of Terry's mouth, and she tried to bite Carl's hand as he did.

    "You BASTARDS... let me GO... I SWEAR, I'll KILL YOU..." she was screaming, all anger and rage. Marian sat up proudly, her daughter wouldn't give in to these thugs!

    Then, Steve grabbed Terry's head tightly, and dug his thumbs into the joint of her jaw, forcing her mouth wide open with the pressure and the pain. Brad forced a ring-gag into her mouth, behind her teeth, and strapped it cruelly tight to her head. Terry continued to scream, but with her mouth forced open, the words weren't making much sense any more.

    Then, as Marian looked on, horrified, they forced Terry to her knees, and pressed her face against one wall of the booth. Looking more closely, she could see a hole in the wall of the booth, against which Terry's helplessly open mouth was forced. As Brad and Steve held her there, Carl strung rope through eye-rings on either side of the glory hole, and tied Terry's head tightly in place.

    "That's a glory-hole," said Zack, as Marian's eyes filled with tears. "Know what one of those is for? I'll bet your high-falutin' lifestyle doesn't include stuff like that. Men take their pleasure through that hole, not that you'd know anything about men's pleasure. But you will, bitch. You and your daughter will."

    Marian shook her head, clearing the tears out of her eyes, as she watched the three men in Terry's booth bind her even more tightly; wrists behind her back, ankles bound together, then ankles and wrists bound together. She was forced to kneel at the glory hole, unable to move her wide-open mouth even a centimeter away from it. Then, the three men left the booth. Marian feared they would go into the adjacent booth and take advantage of her daughter, but instead, she saw them coming into her own booth, less than a minute later.

    "Here's the deal, mom," said Brad, as he stood in front of her. "Your daughter's going to learn a lot about pleasing a man, today. We don't care if you learn shit, but you need to be taught a lesson, don't you?" He reached down and ripped open her blouse the rest of the way, and dug her big fat tits out of her expensive lace bra. Marion started to struggle, but Zack put the tip of the stun gun directly against her nipple.

    "You make a sound, a single fucking sound," he said, "and I'll go stuff this stun-gun up your daughter's cunt, and tape the trigger down. Got me?"

    Marion, horrified, nodded. She sat there, passively, as the five men pulled and tore her clothes off, stripping her completely naked, ruining her thousand dollar outfit. She kept her eyes on the stun gun, and on the screen where Terry knelt, helpless, moaning and squirming. Brad unbound Marion's feet, and her back was forced to one wall of the booth. Zack and Carl pulled her ankles wide apart, as Brad held her shoulders against the wall. She felt the wood of the wall behind her, and an opening, which her ass was pressing against. She looked at Brad, eyes wide and pleading, shaking her head, but Brad only smiled.

    Her widespread ankles were tied to eye-rings set in the wall, and they forced her to bend over. Her wrists were tightly bound behind her back, and then the bent her over further. As Brad held her down with a hand on the back of her neck, Dan knelt by her, reached around, and spread her ass-cheeks. She could feel cool air on her exposed anus, and started to struggle. They only held her more tightly, as Dan ran rope through the eye- rings on either side of this glory hole, and around her waist and thighs, forcing her ass-hole tightly to the glory hole. Then, Carl got under her bent-over form, and began to wrap coils of rope around her dangling melons, binding them tightly at the base, making them swell under her. The ends of the ropes were brought down to the floor, and secured tightly in an eye-ring in the floor.

    Then they grabbed her long hair, pulled her head far back, and tied her hair to one more eye-ring in the wall with one more length of rope. Her face was only a foot away from the video screen where Terry waited pensively, mouth to the wall.

    Zack stroked Marian's naked body with the prongs of the stun gun, then Brad pulled the tape off of her mouth, and pulled out the rag.

    "Please," said Marian, the agony in her bound breasts dulling her thinking, "don't do this... please, you can do whatever you want with me, but not Terry... PLEASE!"

    "Shouldn't have helped her tease all those cocks," said Carl, as he tweaked Marian's nipple. Marian shuddered, but didn't scream. She knew, if she screamed, she'd feel the stun gun again.

    "It was all my idea... please, not her... she's all I've got, please don't do this to my little girl!"

    The men looked back and forth to one another. "So," asked Zack. "Is Terry still a virgin?"

    "She... oh, god, don't," said Marian, shock setting in.

    Brad slapped her, lightly, knelt down to face her. "Is Terry a virgin?" he asked again. Zack reached under her with the stun gun, and pressed the prongs to Marian's swollen nipples.

    "Y-yes!" said Marian. "You... you can't take that from her, not like this... please... she's never even touched a man's penis before!"

    "Well, she's gonna do a hell of a lot more than touch one, today," said Brad. He pulled out a good-sized cock gag, and held it in front of Marian. "Open up, or we'll shock your tits."

    Marian, crying almost uncontrollably, opened her mouth, and Brad forced the six-inch cock gag into her mouth, nearly choking her, the head of it resting just at the entrance of her throat. As he strapped it into place, she realized that if she relaxed, she wouldn't gag on it. Tears of humiliation welled up in her eyes; she'd never sucked a cock before, not even a rubber one, and having this thing in her mouth, here, in front of these men she and her daughter had humiliated, was more than she could bear!

    "Show time," said Zack. Brad, Carl, Dan, and Steve left the booth, and Zack knelt down next to Marian.

    "You see, we've been setting this up for a while," he said. "Now, we're going to open the book store back up, and let all the regular customers come in. We've been telling them there would be a special surprise for them, tonight. We even put ads on the Internet, so a hell of a lot of horny guys are going to come in, looking for some satisfaction."

    Marian's eyes widened once more, and she started to gag on her protests as she shook her head. Zack kissed her on the cheek, chuckling.

    "At some point tonight, me and all my friends are gonna take our turns, too. But I doubt you'll be able to tell when it's us."

    He left her in the booth, alone, eyes locked on the screen, watching her daughter, who had no warning about what was about to happen.

    As Marian watched, tears dripping down her cheeks, she heard the sounds of people coming into the store. She pulled at the bonds on her wrists and ankles, pulled up against the ropes on her tightly bound breasts, but there was no escaping. She watched Terry, saw her pulling at her own bonds, hoping against hope that she could get a hand free. She could hear Terry's moans across the store, and silently begged her to stop, to not draw any attention to herself. Marian would have tried to moan herself, to attract attention away from her precious daughter, but the cock-gag in her mouth denied her the opportunity.

    As she watched her daughter struggle, she saw a man enter the booth next to Terry. Marion's throat constricted at the cock-gag, as she tried to yell, to scream, to beg, to plead. The man bent down, and looked into the hole, smiled, and stood up. As Marion watched, helplessly, the man opened up his pants, pulled out a five-inch cock, and stuck it through the hole in the thin veneer wall. Terry was caught completely by surprise, and squealed loudly around it. The man grabbed a pair of handles that had been conveniently provided in that booth, and started to shove his cock in and out of Terry's helpless mouth.

    "Suck it, bitch!" he said. There was no sound from the video, but Marian could hear the words from the nearby booth. "Fucking whore, suck it!"

    Marian wanted to close her eyes, but she found she couldn't. Maybe Terry would get away, maybe she could break free, but there she was, being brutally mouth- raped by this complete stranger. Terry's slim body writhed and squirmed, her ass swaying back and forth, as the cock slipped in and out, faster and faster. Marian's throat constricted in sympathy as she heard Terry gag on the cock, again and again.

    The man's hips drove the cock brutally into Terry's mouth, until his body tensed up, and he moaned loudly. Marian almost threw up, realizing that the brute was cumming in her precious daughter's helpless mouth. The man pulled his softening cock out of Terry's mouth, and tucked it away, as Terry gasped and coughed through the ring-gag.

    Marian blinked the tears away as the man left the booth, and was immediately replaced by another. She recognized Zack, and she said silent prayers as Zack smiled up at the camera, and flipped her the finger. Then he unzipped, pulled out a considerably larger cock than the last man's, and shoved it deep down Terry's helpless throat.

    Marian was so intent on watching the video monitor that she didn't hear the sounds from the booth next to hers. She just felt something hot and slippery at her helplessly exposed anus. She tensed every muscle in her body, straining against the ropes on her, as the stranger behind her started to shove his hard cock into her, HARD. She gasped through her nose as the head of it popped into her virgin shit-chute, and screamed a muffled, choking scream around the cock-gag. She closed her eyes, the sounds of Terry gagging on Zack's huge cock filling her ears, and soon, the grunts and groans of the man behind her, as he slowly forced more of his big cock up her ass.

    Marian's body trembled as the cock slowly forced it's way in, her asshole squeezing down on it hot and tight. She tensed her every muscle, trying to expel the raping intruder, but that only seemed to excite the man inside of her. After what seemed like forever, she felt her ass-cheeks tickled by pubic hair, and the man's cock was entirely inside her. The burning agony of the anal rape tore through her body, and her spastic, gagging moans were totally insufficient, but the only noise she could squeeze out.

    She opened her eyes again as the man left his cock there, feeling her heat and tightness. On the video screen, Zack was holding onto the handles, and force- fucking Terry's helpless throat hard and fast, looking up into the camera as he did. He was smiling, an evil smile, that seemed to say "you're next, bitch."

    Then the man in Marian's ass started to fuck his big cock in and out, tearing her open. Even as tightly bound as it was, her body jerked back against the wall, time and again, as the big cock dragged out of her rectum. Her big tits were yanked mercilessly as the cock pounded her violated hole, bringing even more pain.

    She heard Zack's moans as he came in Terry's mouth, and watched as he very deliberately pulled his cock mostly out of her mouth, and jacked the last few drops onto her tongue, forcing her to taste his cum. With a satisfied smile on his face, Zack zipped up his pants, and left the booth; to be immediately replaced by another stranger.

    The cock in Marian's ass pumped into her harder, and faster. Tears of pain and humiliation spilled to the floor, as her butt was used brutally. The man would pump hard, then slow down, pump hard, and then slow down. He was deliberately taking his time, making the horrible anal rape last, and last. Marian lost track of the number of times the cock was rammed into her helpless chute. She felt him drive in deep, hard, and then an odd warmth filled her ass. With disgust, she realized that the man had cum up her ass. Her eyes widened once more as the man's cock was slowly withdrawn, her tight anal rippling milking out every drop from the rapist. She felt his cum! They weren't wearing condoms, or anything! Even the men raping Terry's mouth weren't using rubbers!

    She closed her eyes, body wracked with sobs, as the implications of multiple unprotected rapes lashed her mind. She heard the door to the booth behind her open, and close, and wasn't that surprised when another cockhead was buttoned into her helpless, torn asshole. The pain wracked her again, causing her to jerk hard against her bonds, helpless, in agony.

    She lost count of the number of men that used her and Terry, somewhere around ten or fifteen. She knew there were a lot more than that. The constant pain, the terror, and the humiliation took their toll; she passed out after an hour of the torment, which didn't stop the delighted bookstore patrons.

    She woke up, muscles aching, scalp burning with the constant pull on her hair, breasts numb. She was still tied in the same place, and the same position, but the rapes seemed to have stopped, at least for the moment. She looked at the screen, and to her terror, Terry was no longer there! Marian tried to scream for her, but the cock-gag prevented any but the most pitiful mewlings out of her mouth.

    Then, there was another pressure at her anus, but this one was different. Where the many cockheads that had pressed there were hard and soft at the same time, this one was only hard, ungiving. And it was HUGE! Her asshole, brutalized as it was, could offer no resistance as the vast intruder forced it's way inside her.

    Again, the gag prevented a full-throated scream. The thing pressed in, harder, and deeper, it's length covered with sharp little nubs, that bit into her flesh and scraped along her torn anal canal as it slipped in. In her pain-shrouded mind, Marian didn't realize that she was being fucked with a huge, knobbed dildo. She thought that she was in hell, and finally, Satan himself was raping her ass. Her mind started to come apart under the agony of the brutal dildo rape. It had to have been over a foot long, and wider by far than any of the cocks she'd been forced to take there. Once it was inside her, it rested there, and she slowly started to realize what was actually happening. "Please," she prayed, silently, "just let it stay there, please, don't let it fuck me!"

    Her body quivered in helpless agony as the huge dildo started to slide in and out of her, tearing at the walls of her asshole, bringing blood and cum out with it with every stroke. Marian's eyes squeezed shut, her mind racing madly. The cocks that had raped her ass had left when they'd cum. When would this end? How could it end?

    The dildo raping went on for a good long time, Marian couldn't tell how long. It seemed that it would be going on forever, when the monster was finally dragged out of her ass. She could feel cool air flowing much, much to far inside her, as her tortured anus refused to close, dripping blood and the cum of dozens of hard anal rapes. There was a shuffling of many feet from the room behind her, and the door opening, and closing.

    Then the door of her own booth opened again, And Marian looked at the men standing in the door, hate in her eyes.

    They looked at her, laughing, for a moment, then parted, revealing Terry. She was naked, her wrists tied behind her back, but there was a strap around her waist, and at her pelvis was mounted a huge, black rubber dildo, covered with knobs, dripping blood and cum.

    "MOM!" she screamed, stepping into the room, and falling to her bruised and raw knees. "Mom, I didn't know! I didn't know you were here!" Her voice was hoarse and raw, her lips red and swollen from the vast number of oral rapes. "They told me... they told me if I did this, they'd let me go!"

    Tears spilled down her cheeks, as she rested her face against her mother's. Zack and Brad stepped forward, took Terry by her shoulders, and lifted her to her feet.

    "That was hot," said Carl. "So, Marian, is your daughter better at fucking your ass than we are? Be honest, now?"

    The men laughed as Terry wailed in anguish. Four of the men took Terry away, leaving Dan with Marian.

    "So, you want to go home, now?" he asked, holding her chin between thumb and forefinger. As best as she could, with her hair still bound, Marian nodded.

    "Then you've got to do something for us." He untied Marian's hair, and unbound her tits, and helped her to stand up straight against the wall. Marian stretched her muscles, grateful that the anal raping was over. Dan untied her ankles, and helped her sit down, carefully, on the bench. Her ass was burning and bleeding, sitting was hard, but it was a vast relief to take the strain off of her legs.

    She looked at him, expectantly, terror in her eyes, gag still in her mouth. Dan pulled a gun out of the back of his waistband, and her eyes widened even more.

    "We could kill you both," he said, "and no one would know. None of the guys that fucked you two, today, know what you looked like. We could make you disappear, and no one would ever know. Got me?"

    Marian nodded.

    "Now, my four friends are tying your daughter down to a cot in the back room. We've all cum four or five times, now, and we don't really want to screw you two whores any more. But Terry's still a virgin, and she doesn't deserve it. She's way too good at being a cock-tease to be a virgin."

    Marian could tell what was coming, and her heart dropped into her stomach. Dan ran the tip of the gun barrel around her swollen nipples.

    "So we're gonna take you to her, and give you the strap-on that we let her use on you, and you're gonna take her cherry. But none of this gentle 'mommy- daughter' crap. You're gonna call her a slut and a whore and you're gonna make her think that you WANT to rape her, that she's a dirty little fucking bitch and that she deserves it."

    Dan held the gun to Marian's temple. "And if you're not convincing, you and Terry go away. In a long, slow, nasty way, forever. Got me?"

    Marian's mind rebelled at the suggestion, at the horror of it, but she realized she had no choice. These men could do whatever they wanted to them, she had to take the chance, however small, however painful, to save her and her daughter's life.

    Dan took the gag off of Marian, who remained silent. She'd learned her lesson.

    "Good girl," said Dan. "Now, let's go take Terry's cherry."

    Dan helped the shaky Marian to her feet, untying her hands.

    "Just remember, you try anything," he said "and it's all over for you and your little bitch."

    "I-I know," said Marian, through bitter tears. Dan led her to the supply room in back, where Terry was laying on her back on a thin cot, her arms and legs spread out wide, and tied underneath. She looked up at her mother with tears in her eyes, as the four other conspirators smiled and laughed among themselves.

    "Mom-oh, god, mom, I'm so sorry... I didn't know it was you!"

    Zack stepped up to Marian, and handed her the monstrous strap on, still glistening with her blood and the cum of uncounted rapists. She started to protest, not this, anything but this, but the memory of the gun in the hands of the man behind her stopped her. She squeezed her eyes shut tightly, as she strapped on the monstrous thing.

    "Mom, what-what are you doing?" asked Terry, as Marian approached her. "You...you can't!"

    "Shut up, you little bitch," said Marian, hoping she sounded convincing. "You deserve this!"

    She got on top of her virgin daughter, poising the head of the dildo at Terry's untouched pussy lips. Terry's widespread thighs quivered with the effort of trying to pull them closed.

    "God, no... please, I'm sorry... I'm SO sorry!" squealed Terry, her eyes locked on the monstrosity pressing at her cunt. "I swear, I'll be good mommy, no please!"

    Marian almost cracked. Only the sure knowledge that she and her daughter would both be killed if she didn't continue drove her on. She carefully guided the head of the monster dildo to her daughter's virgin opening, and started to thrust into her.

    "NO... MOMMY... IT HURTS!!" screamed Terry, as the head started to enter her. Marian paused, and slapped her.

    "Listen, you little bitch," she said, her teeth clenched, "just shut up and take it." She hated herself more with every word, but what choice did she have? Then, she put her weight down on her hips, and the monstrous, knobbed dildo inched deeper into her daughter.

    "DON'T... please, not that... don't take it... NO!!" screamed Terry, as she felt the huge, stretching invader hit her precious maidenhead. "Mom... you said I had to stay a virgin-why are you DOING THIS TO ME?"

    "Why do you THINK, you little BITCH?" asked Marian, tears in her eyes. It actually did make her a little angry, that after all they'd gone through today, she didn't realize that Marian was being forced into this act. A little anger was all it took, she thrust her hips forward, and the dildo ripped through Terry's virginity painfully.

    Terry could only scream as Marian buried the rest of the dildo up her hot, tight pussy; scream and thrash her head about, her young breasts jiggling from the effort. Marian started fucking her with brutal strokes; the harder she went, the faster these men would let them go.

    The conspirators smiled and laughed, commenting on Marian's style and technique as she brutally dildo- raped her daughter, until Marian's legs, trembling from the exertion and stress of the day, gave out on her, and she could no longer go. Terry wept and screamed in her mother's ear, and the five conspirators stepped forward and pulled them apart, the dildo glistening with fresh virgin blood as is popped free of Terry's violated hole.

    Marian, helpless with exhaustion, fatigue, and pain, sat next to her bound, raped daughter, weeping.

    "Just so you know," said Zack, "We've been taping this whole thing. We got some good stuff, too. We're going to be jacking off to you two whores raping each other for a good, long time."

    "You bastards," said Marian, breathing heavily.

    "Now, you get any funny ideas, like going to the cops or anything," said Brad, "and we'll put you two all over the Internet, and send daddy's lawyers a few copies of you raping your little girl. Won't that be fun?"

    "You-you can't!" said Marian, as Terry continued to cry.

    "You just go on home," said Carl. "It's gonna be a long time before you two get off on cock-teasing again."

    They untied Terry, dragged the two women out back, threw them, naked, into Marian's car, and left them there.

    The five watched as, eventually, they drove off.

    "Gonna do 'em again?" asked Steve, as he popped the top on a beer.

    "Don't see why not," said Brad. "Give 'em a week or two to recover, and bring 'em back. And see if Terry's got any cute friends."

    "Right on," said Dan. "Let's go watch the tape. I wanna see the look on her face when I'm fucking her ass."

    1. Re:An Open Source Solution? by eyegone · · Score: 1
      This is insightful?

      --
      "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    2. Re:An Open Source Solution? by goatasaur · · Score: 1

      Seems more informative than anything else...

      --
      ~D:
    3. Re:An Open Source Solution? by daaan · · Score: 1

      fuck insightful, is this even relevant to anything that i have ever seen on /.? never mind relevant to this story, relevant to anything...

    4. Re:An Open Source Solution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      Best post ever!

  16. the speed? by Sophrosyne · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How much slower will hard drives be? Or will they get faster? ...it just sounds slower to me,
    Shouldn't more reasearch be made into solid state memory? I'm not a big fan of hard drive noises and grinding... but hey any research is good research :)

    1. Re:the speed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Flamebait

      Including searching your anal cavity?

    2. Re:the speed? by Sophrosyne · · Score: 1

      sure if you find anything let me know

    3. Re:the speed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeh i agree, Ibm had delevoped a solidstate hd the size of a watch face which could hold 15gb.

      it is based on microscopic version of tic tac toe(aka punch cards) but it does it with electrons or something, i read an article on it several months back, aswell as an 800 mhz pc with 128mb of ram which is the size of a credit card and about 1cm deep....aswell as silicon germanium coatings for hard disks which treble the current storage capacities

      all this research was done by IBM and they dont seem to be implementing any of it,
      they could so easily reclaim the market with any of these 3 ideas

      ps if you find out anymore email me
      The_trooper_10@hotmail.com

  17. going ballistic by updog · · Score: 1
    using a phenomenon called "ballistic magnetoresistance" which is not completely understood

    Now the term "going ballistic" has a whole new meaning!

    This sounds cool though, sounds like Moore's law will keep moving along...

  18. Don't need it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    The average consumer doesn't need this technology. Large capacity hard disks have no place in regular civilian hands as it's just used for the storage of pirated materials. Following the logic of outlawing high capacity gun magazines (which is appropriate since government rule must be preserved at all costs including the obsolete second amendment) then there is no reason that high capacity hard disk drives should also not be kept out of civilian hands. At the very least a $1000 tax should be laid on all hard disk drives over 2GB. Permission from the government should be required as well before aquiring one of these devices.

    This is a very sensible solution to stopping piracy. Only a pirate, DMCA violator, or terrorist would disagree.

    1. Re:Don't need it. by kdgibson · · Score: 1

      "At the very least a $1000 tax should be laid on all hard disk drives over 2GB." Are you insane? 2GB?!?

    2. Re:Don't need it. by Mr_Tulip · · Score: 1
      3 reasons why you _do_ need more than 2Gb:

      1.Just had a quick look at my Icewind Dale game box: Requires 800 MB free disk space.

      2.Even compressed MPEG2 video streams run to almost 1Gb per hour.. How would I make a VCD (to play on the DVD player) out of my home video?

      3.Lastly, Windows XP Pro, installed, takes around 1Gb of space (omg.. that's just ridiculous.. someone shoot me for using XP, I _must_ be a terrorist)

    3. Re:Don't need it. by harlequinSmurf · · Score: 1

      While I know I'm rising to a troll, its early Monday morning and I would rather not be at work so I'll bite for something to do.

      What about Joe Consumer who buys a new PC with one of these "you-dont-need-more-then-this" 2Gig drives in it.

      Being a new comp it will come with an OEM install of winXP so as well as the usual XP bloat it will have the added OEM bloat as well. That should come up to between 1 and 1.2Gig.

      Joe Consumers son Johny gets Diablo2 for his birthday/christmas/some-other-gift-giving-event but poor little Johny cant play it as it requires 1.5Gig for a full install. If you want to be able to play both single player and multiplayer.

      Don't even think about any other software on the computer. Joe Consumers workplace will go out of business at the cost of having to pay your stupid $1000 tax as without larger drives they don't have the room to have windows and their required office software installed on the machine.

      Your theory effectively puts the entire computer software and computer industries "up shit creek" as no-one in their right mind would pay $1000 to be able to install software. It also puts potentially thousands of small-medium businesses who are already struggling with MS stupic licence requirements out of business.

      Ultimately if you travel it through to the likely conclusion you will put the entire US through abouther depression as millions are loosing their jobs due to their workplaces going out of business. Con-fucking-gratulations.

  19. New sensation by Autonymous+Toaster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Chopra said the sensors also could be used to detect biomolecules, even in low concentrations. Each organic molecule could have its own fingerprint in terms of affecting whiskers' voltage.

    Though the data storage application could certainly serve to fund the development and popularisation of this technology, it seems possible that in the long term the quoted "secondary" application may actually be the primary one. If the device can be tuned to detect virtually anything, it has obvious applications in industrial processes, bomb detection, and so on. This is incremental to existing efforts in these areas.

    However, if it can be further trained to distinguish, it essentially amounts to an electronic "sense of smell". This is very exciting and has innumerable applications, especially in combination with other sensor devices and realtime feedback mechanisms involving both software and hardware.

    A hypothetical consumer application might be to control the temperature that a bread product is grilled at, bringing it to a perfect (and user-selectable) stated of brownness, while turning down the heat in individual spots at the slightest hint of burning. Wonderful development

    --
    Could I interest anyone in some toast?
    1. Re:New sensation by AlephNot · · Score: 1

      "A hypothetical consumer application might be to control the temperature that a bread product is grilled at..."

      How fitting that you should mention that, given your nick. :-)

      --
      "Feel a glory in so rolling / on the human heart a stone" --E. A. Poe, "The Bells"
    2. Re:New sensation by tekunokurato · · Score: 1

      Especially after the machines have taken over and extinguished all other organic life- it'll be useful to detect any dissenting microbes

  20. Reading works, but writing? by Slur · · Score: 0

    The article says nothing about writing data at such high densities. Something about this invention reminds me of the chip in the Terminator's head....

    --
    -- thinkyhead software and media
  21. *cough* by TheSHAD0W · · Score: 1

    You probably haven't noticed because not only are capacities going up, costs are going down as well. That 200 gig hard drive is selling for less money than 200 meg drives were when they first came out. The capacities are becoming so enormous that they're threatening to become meaningless; most computer users wouldn't know the difference between a 60 gig drive and a 20. (They might not even know where to look to find out which they have, for that matter.) As a result, companies are spending as much of their resources on dropping prices as they are boosting size.

  22. Cool.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny
    "ballistic magnetoresistance"

    Last time a drive failed on me, I made it go ballistic too, and it offered little resistance (however the concrete offered considerable resistance). Is this a similar thing?

  23. Visible light = 400-700 nanometres by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1
  24. I don't think it's time for this yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    Maybe it's just me, but i don't think news about harddrives is very important at that moment.

  25. GET SOME PRIORITIES!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    The most horrible space tragedy in recorded history occured one day ago, and all you people can do is talk about whether nickel sensors could raise hard disk capacity? My *god*, folks, get some priorities here!

  26. Not fully understood by gmuslera · · Score: 1

    It works, but they don't know how. Looks like a recipe to future problems.

    If this works, in a production environment when it exposed to certain radiation, radio signals, heat/cold, etc it not, will be dangerous to rely in that kind of things.

    "It's Magic!" is ok for childrens, but not if you want do to something serious.

    1. Re:Not fully understood by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uhm. guess what. that's what we have engineers for. test the hell out of it, find out how tolerable it is, then properly shield the device if needed.

  27. Doesn't matter by CedgeS · · Score: 2, Informative

    Spontaneous flipping still poses an upper limit to magnetic data storage capacity. Basically, if you cram lots of bits too close together, they will start flipping each other.

    see: http://domino.watson.ibm.com/comm/wwwr_thinkresear ch.nsf/pages/frontier399.html

    under storing information for info on pushing this limit

    1. Re:Doesn't matter by jerde · · Score: 1

      PLEASE, take the time to make a link a link. It's really not hard, saves people time (and the frustration of the extra spaces in URLs) and it makes the world a better place*.

      The link is to:

      An article about IBM research

      - Peter

      *hyperbole

      --
      INsigNIFICANT
    2. Re:Doesn't matter by Rhinobird · · Score: 1

      Basically, if you cram lots of bits too close together, they will start flipping each other.


      Dude...that explains NY. Too many humans crammed together and they just start spontaneously flipping each other off.

      --
      If Mr. Edison had thought smarter he wouldn't sweat as much. --Nikola Tesla
  28. I bet the boys as Inco are happy to hear this by TerryAtWork · · Score: 1

    The they figure out - Geez, you use a handfull of nickle and you can make enough nanosensors to supply the geek industry for a year...

    --
    It's Christmas everyday with BitTorrent.
  29. or even better by SHEENmaster · · Score: 1

    a 2^9C magnetic field for a single bit. The data would last FOREVER and have hardly any degredation! Now we'll just need a few warehouses to store it, anyone want to invest?

    --
    You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
    1. Re:or even better by EggplantMan · · Score: 1

      ... 2^9 C magnetic field C? Aren't magnetic fields measured in Teslas?

      --

      ?-|||-----x<*))))><
  30. What gets me.. by di0s · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What chafes my drawers is that fact that we're looking to increase capacity and not reliability. Isn't the average life span of a hard drive only about 5-7 years? What ever happend to solid state storage??

    1. Re:What gets me.. by rcs1000 · · Score: 1

      Reliability and capacity are largely interchangeable. That's what RAID is for...

      --
      --- My dad's political betting
    2. Re:What gets me.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read the article. There are increasing reliability.

    3. Re:What gets me.. by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      Or rather, you can trade one for the other. I was shocked to find people selling 10k rpm 36GB for 80 or 90 bucks the other day. I imagine that IDE is even cheaper.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    4. Re:What gets me.. by Paul+Komarek · · Score: 1

      I have one question for you. Where? Where did you find 10K SCSI drives for those prices?

      -Paul Komarek

    5. Re:What gets me.. by Doppler00 · · Score: 1

      Drives that last 5-7 years? Most drives are lucky to last even 3 years now. The question is, if data density doesn't increase will we have any reason to buy new harddrives before they fail? Someday we may just buy replacement drives of the same capacity regularly as old ones fail. Oh well.

    6. Re:What gets me.. by gregfortune · · Score: 1

      Check pricewatch.com, but be careful not to get burned. $80 drives are listed, but that seems mighty low... As always, buyer beware :)

    7. Re:What gets me.. by addaon · · Score: 1

      Solid state storage is here today. I just built a silent PC... epia 5000 fanless motherboard, dc-to-dc (that's the brand, actually, as well as a description) fanless ATX power supply, solid state (obviously) ram, and solid state (http://www.satech.com/disonmoddom4.html was my provider) disk. total cost was about $300, including custom case, so there's no real argument about that, either. Performance is designed to fit my needs, not greatest possible. And I'll wager the thing lasts 50 years, given that it's in a fully sealed inert atmosphere, temperature never goes about 40 celcius, and internal humidity approaches zero. Oh yeah, and there's software which remaps around bad bits on disk or ram, so normal failures are acceptable there (although it may be forced to reboot if kernel memory is corrupt... fortunately, I'm using a fully journaling file system, not just meta-data journalling, so that, too, is okay). Total price, again, around $300, and reliability is quite satisfactory. What are people complaining about again?

      --

      I've had this sig for three days.
    8. Re:What gets me.. by addaon · · Score: 1

      Sorry about replying to myself, but it just occured to me. If people are interested in more info about this, send me an e-mail (adam at addaon.com). If enough people show interest, I'll write up an article. If not, I'll just answer questions as they come in. And to forestall the most common question -- it's not running linux.

      --

      I've had this sig for three days.
    9. Re:What gets me.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I've got a drive that came with my comp about 7 years ago, working perfectly, even if the performance is a little on the slow side now, and I have a hard drive that I got about a year and a half ago, it's much faster, but it's already starting to go bad on me, something definitly needs to be done about the performace to reliability ratio...

    10. Re:What gets me.. by alannon · · Score: 1

      Given that the flash drive that you purchased is only (according to the specs) rated for 1,000,000 write cycles, what makes you think that it's going to last even as long as a typical HD, let alone 50 years? Speaking of that, is using a fully journaled file system a good idea? That turns every write to disk into two writes to disk, effectively cutting your drive life in half. Also, with such a tiny HD capacity (how many 512meg modules can the drive hold? 4? 8?) what makes you think the machine will be useful in even 3 years, let alone 50? I suppose if you have a particularly specialized need for a 'solid state' computer, it would be useful, but not for a general-purpose machine.

    11. Re:What gets me.. by addaon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You hit the nail on the head. I have a specialized need. Capacity wasn't an issue; for various reasons, I'm using two 128MB modules, and that's all I need. On the other hand, the write limits don't really concern me. As I'm using custom software, I can trade off the number of write cycles in exchange for reliability. I basically limit it to a maximum of one write per location per hour, and start moving things around on the disk if a single section consistently gets more writes than that. Again, also, I can check after each write whether it worked; if not, I just mark that byte bad, and go to a reserved backup area. Assuming my usage patterns stay relatively similar, or even double, the number of write cycles shouldn't be an issue for roughly a century.

      Furthermore, I did destructive testing on a smaller unit (32MB) to get a sense of how accurate that 1M write cycle number is, since it did worry me for a bit. 1% of the write locations (byte sized) failed after 200k writes, going up to 2% at 500k, skyrocketing ;-) to 5% at 1M. Clearly not quite linear, but I'm not too worried. At 10M writes per location, 65% of locations were still writeable. Not ideal, I'd admit (that brings a 128MB disk down to ~83MB), but again, that would take a millenium with my usage patterns. (Currently, I'm reserving 16MB out of 128MB for repcing bad sectors. 16% bad sectors occured at around 4M writes.)

      So you're right in that this isn't necessarily feasible for a standard PC. On the other hand, with different usage patterns, you could easily just use a RAM disk. A good sized linux installation is reasonable in 2GB; this is under a thousand dollars in compact flash, with direct compact flash to IDE adapters. 2GB of ram, likewise, is only a few hundred dollars. On boot, make a ramdisk. Only write back to flash if you get nervous; or do it once an hour, and last a century. (Note also that most IDE drivers do bad sector remapping; it's not ideal, because it uses 512B blocks instead of the 1B blocks that flash actually fails in, but it's zero modification to existing code.) Needless to say, it would be more expensive than normal to build a computer this way, but it really wouldn't be off the scale.

      --

      I've had this sig for three days.
    12. Re:What gets me.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      3 years? lol. most drive warranties are for like 1 year now.

    13. Re:What gets me.. by aka1nas · · Score: 1

      I am actually considering using that same VIA EPIA setup you mentioned and was thinking about using a CompactFlash with an IDE adapter to boot off of. I was planning on using a trimmed down Linux Kernel and using a RAMDisk of some sort. Any tips or insights on working with this setup? This would also be a specialized setup, so I wouldn't need full PC functionality. Also, what casing are you using and is there a website that you got most of your information from?

    14. Re:What gets me.. by addaon · · Score: 1

      Nope, unfortunately not. Currently I'm using the most bootleg case imaginable... the box it's cut out of. I'm transitioning to a cast nylon one, lines with metal mesh (screen door stuff), as soon as I can get a few minutes on the water jet. Using a compact flash adapter is a definitely cheaper than using a disk-on-module device, but it's also significantly bigger. Most cf adapters I've seen either mount vertically, or require a cable... the first bringing total high from 0.5" to 2" or so, and the other giving another point of failure. For the power supply, there are lots of things out there, but the simplest is the dc-to-dc I mentioned... and it's a small circuit board, the longest side is shorter than the epia, so it won't increase your total length much. Linux supposedly is quite comfortable on the machine although, again, I haven't tried it. Be aware that you don't have a floppy connector, so you'll either have to boot off cd, use a usb floppy drive, or just use another computer to install. Also, the machine may not need a fan, but it gets quite warm. I haven't been able to get a full power reading (some friend borrowed the damn multimeter again), but I suspect it's between 10 and 15 watts in the configuration described, including losses in the power supply. If you're particularly space strapped, and you're not thinking of keeping a CD in their permanently, you may want to consider something much smaller than the 55W dc-to-dc.

      I presume you know of mini-itx.com. They're great, if you're looking for wacky case ideas. For a simply case, though, I'd really consider going down to your neighborhood metal shop or carpenter, and just showing him what you need. I think the epia's are particularly suited to a wood case, and it's certainly simpler or cheaper. Consider the metal mesh for radio shielding, if you care about such things; evcen in a sealed, non-head-conductive box, heating is no problem for at least 72 hours (haven't tested longer totally sealed). I recommend some ventilation holes, of course. The commercial cases seem great, but they're all designed for people who need disk drives. If you don't, it's probably more than you want.

      The other note is that low-profile ram is available for just a buck or two extra and, at least in my configuration, the ram is the highest point besides PCI cards. Again, if you're using a cf adapter, that may or may not be the case. For PCI cards, you can use a right-angle adapter to reduce total height. You can also get a two-pci-slot adapter (right-angle), which gives you two full slots. I'm not using one currenty, but I tested two 8-serial-port cards at once, and they worked gorgeously.

      I've never been as happy with an x86 machine, in terms of reliability and efficiency, as I am with the epia, and I highly recommend getting one to play with, especially at the price. And you get to laugh at everyone who talks about quieter fans and insultation to make a quiet pc... 0dB is nothing to sneer at.

      --

      I've had this sig for three days.
    15. Re:What gets me.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Solid state disks as cheap as current hard disks would be nice.

  31. Am I the only one by WhaDaYaKnow · · Score: 1

    that get's a little nervous about the idea that my data is accessed through a sensor 'only a few atoms wide'?

    1. Re:Am I the only one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Yes, so shut the fuck up.

    2. Re:Am I the only one by c0d3fu · · Score: 1

      If you think about it, the technology your using right now is freaking amazing... the ability to to communicate with billions of computers on the internet, process data at lightning fast speed, all with technology that both you and I don't understand. Plus, humanity is on the verge of taking the big leap into light-based (quantum) processors that are made up of carbon nanotubes. "Magnetic RAM" is only a decade away. Computers may even go biological in our lifetime.

      --

      [c0d3fu]: jwjb62@umr.edu || james@macrohub.com
  32. Too small for my liking by EsperHunter · · Score: 1

    "As the sensors are only a few atoms wide" I wonder if they would dislodge/misalign if you dropped the hard drive by accident, or even moved it to fast.

    1. Re:Too small for my liking by Tailhook · · Score: 1

      Structures this small have very little mass. While I don't care to attempt to calculate this, I suppose it's possible that a wire only few atoms wide might be capable of sustaining tremendous acceleration. Would something with so little mass survive >100G acceleration? If so, it could withstand more force than the device that encloses it.

      --
      Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
  33. Re:I hope IBM don't have anything to do with this. by AlgebraicSpore · · Score: 1

    Most people do not need large 200GB drives for their home computers but they are often used in servers. The advancement of servers is helping to get a more stable web community and since the internet is currently the main driving force behind computers this is quite important.

  34. Re:I hope IBM don't have anything to do with this. by Maul · · Score: 3, Informative

    I agree. I think that the hard drive manufacturers need to stop focusing on how big they can make drives, and to start focusing on ways to make drives more reliable. A 200 GB drive is useless if it dies after six months.

    --

    "You spoony bard!" -Tellah

  35. Karma Whoring by EsperHunter · · Score: -1, Redundant

    Tiny whiskers make huge memory storage UPI Science News From the Science & Technology Desk Published 1/31/2003 4:07 PM BUFFALO, N.Y., Jan. 31 (UPI) -- New, tiny magnetic sensors could help break a technical barrier to ushering in the next generation of computer disk storage capacity, researchers reported Friday. The sensors, filaments of nickel thinner than a wavelength of visible light, are capable of detecting extremely weak magnetic fields. Although it is already possible to increase hard drive storage capacity many times, the process has lagged because technology has not existed to read the data signals, researcher Harsh Chopra, a materials scientist at the State University of New York in Buffalo, told United Press International. "Now we can," he said. The problem with expanding storage disk capacity is that as data bits become exceedingly small, their magnetic fields become correspondingly weaker and harder to read, Chopra explained. In order to read data signals reliably, the signals must produce a large enough change in the electrical resistance of the computer's magnetic sensors. The signals also must produce those changes at room temperature. In findings to be published in next July's issue of the journal Physical Review B, Chopra and physicist Susan Hua described sensors they have developed that are both small and sensitive to improve the density of hard drives. The sensors are actually microscopic whiskers of nickel only a few atoms wide. Each of the filaments can read infinitesimal magnetic fields and at room temperature can detect a 100,000 percent change in voltage. The sensors result in "much clearer signals," Chopra said. For comparison, he explained, imagine normal magnetic sensors can read a signal that begins with a strength of 1 and swings between an "off" reading at 0.8 and "on" at 1.2. The new sensors can read a range that swings between minus 1000 and plus 1000. That degree of sensitivity means terabits of data -- or trillions of bits -- could be crammed into a square inch of disk space. About 160 terabits comprise the entire contents of the Library of Congress. Chopra said the extreme sensitivity of the new sensors is due to a phenomenon called "ballistic magnetoresistance," or BMR. "Normally, when electrons travel in a wire, they go in a zigzag pattern, scattered by impurities or temperature-dependent effects," he explained. "Here the conductor has become so small, the electrons travel in straight paths." Chopra said the ballistic electrons lead to clearer binary signals -- at least in part. However, "we don't fully understand how the signal is enhanced to such very large degrees," he said. "The existing theories don't yet explain it. There are some things here no one quite understands. That means there's a lot of science to be discovered yet." Meanwhile, Chopra and Hua are experimenting with sensors made of other substances, such as magnetite and chromium oxide. They are using a manufacturing technique developed originally by researcher Nongjian Tao, of Arizona State University in Tempe. With it, they said, they can reproduce the sensors reliably and simply. Because the sensors remain sensitive at room temperature, they should attract industry attention quickly. "The normal cycle for (such technologies) from discovery to implementation is about six to eight years," Chopra said. The research is "very exciting," said K.L. Murty, director of the National Science Foundation's metals research program. "It could have a big impact on magnetic storage -- hard disks -- to put in more memory. It might also have a lot of biomedical applications," he said. Chopra said the sensors also could be used to detect biomolecules, even in low concentrations. Each organic molecule could have its own fingerprint in terms of affecting whiskers' voltage. "It might only be two to three years (until we have) a working device in biomedical applications," he said.

  36. I disagree by droleary · · Score: 1

    "It's Magic!" is ok for childrens, but not if you want do to something serious.

    I hereby declare this technology sufficiently advanced!

  37. proper karma whoring by unterderbrucke · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Tiny whiskers make huge memory storage

    From the Science & Technology Desk
    Published 1/31/2003 4:07 PM
    View printer-friendly version

    BUFFALO, N.Y., Jan. 31 (UPI) -- New, tiny magnetic sensors could help break a technical barrier to ushering in the next generation of computer disk storage capacity, researchers reported Friday.

    The sensors, filaments of nickel thinner than a wavelength of visible light, are capable of detecting extremely weak magnetic fields.

    Although it is already possible to increase hard drive storage capacity many times, the process has lagged because technology has not existed to read the data signals, researcher Harsh Chopra, a materials scientist at the State University of New York in Buffalo, told United Press International.

    "Now we can," he said.

    The problem with expanding storage disk capacity is that as data bits become exceedingly small, their magnetic fields become correspondingly weaker and harder to read, Chopra explained. In order to read data signals reliably, the signals must produce a large enough change in the electrical resistance of the computer's magnetic sensors. The signals also must produce those changes at room temperature.

    In findings to be published in next July's issue of the journal Physical Review B, Chopra and physicist Susan Hua described sensors they have developed that are both small and sensitive to improve the density of hard drives.

    The sensors are actually microscopic whiskers of nickel only a few atoms wide. Each of the filaments can read infinitesimal magnetic fields and at room temperature can detect a 100,000 percent change in voltage.

    The sensors result in "much clearer signals," Chopra said.

    For comparison, he explained, imagine normal magnetic sensors can read a signal that begins with a strength of 1 and swings between an "off" reading at 0.8 and "on" at 1.2. The new sensors can read a range that swings between minus 1000 and plus 1000. That degree of sensitivity means terabits of data -- or trillions of bits -- could be crammed into a square inch of disk space. About 160 terabits comprise the entire contents of the Library of Congress.

    Chopra said the extreme sensitivity of the new sensors is due to a phenomenon called "ballistic magnetoresistance," or BMR.

    "Normally, when electrons travel in a wire, they go in a zigzag pattern, scattered by impurities or temperature-dependent effects," he explained. "Here the conductor has become so small, the electrons travel in straight paths."

    Chopra said the ballistic electrons lead to clearer binary signals -- at least in part. However, "we don't fully understand how the signal is enhanced to such very large degrees," he said. "The existing theories don't yet explain it. There are some things here no one quite understands. That means there's a lot of science to be discovered yet."

    Meanwhile, Chopra and Hua are experimenting with sensors made of other substances, such as magnetite and chromium oxide. They are using a manufacturing technique developed originally by researcher Nongjian Tao, of Arizona State University in Tempe. With it, they said, they can reproduce the sensors reliably and simply. Because the sensors remain sensitive at room temperature, they should attract industry attention quickly.

    "The normal cycle for (such technologies) from discovery to implementation is about six to eight years," Chopra said.

    The research is "very exciting," said K.L. Murty, director of the National Science Foundation's metals research program. "It could have a big impact on magnetic storage -- hard disks -- to put in more memory. It might also have a lot of biomedical applications," he said.

    Chopra said the sensors also could be used to detect biomolecules, even in low concentrations. Each organic molecule could have its own fingerprint in terms of affecting whiskers' voltage.

    "It might only be two to three years (until we have) a working device in biomedical applications," he said.

    --

    (Reported by Charles Choi, UPI Science News, in New York)

  38. Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why do we continue to invest in research to make bigger and faster storage devices that have moving parts, which gives you speed limitations, noise and reliability problems? I won't be happy until I have a storage device that is silent, as reliable and as fast as DIMMs or L2 cache.

  39. IBM's M.O. by Sophrosyne · · Score: 1

    I've also heard of IBM working on Holographic storage, Crystal Storage, and Molecular Storage.... It just seems IBM's R&D groups are more interested in winning patents than actually pumping out viable products-- they aren't exactly known for their innovations in the modern computer age, and are probably more interested in trying to attract US Gov't investments.
    Now how long will it be before Steve Jobs comes along, flirts with the CEO of IBM and steals everything only to have Bill Gates come along and steal it off him...

  40. Welcome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To the Laws of Physics.

  41. All I Want... by Cyno01 · · Score: 1

    Is 1 TB on my keychain for under $10, and all i want to know is how soon!??

    --
    "Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
  42. What about performance? by eyegone · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Storage vendors seem to be obsessed with capacity, mostly to the exclusion of performance. I already have customers wasting 75%+ of their disk capacity so that they can spread their data over enough drives to get the performance they need.

    Microscopic $/MB is great, but only if you use all those megabytes.

    --
    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    1. Re:What about performance? by kelleher · · Score: 1
      Agreed. We only add storage to the primary Mktg/Fin Oracle server in increments of ~560GB to maintain our stripe width (and it's only 8). Since we're stuck with an EMC frame (prior decision and politics beyond my control) this means we only buy in $40,000 chunks.

      If you understand corporate accounting, you'll realize how badly this sucks... Making existing drives faster and more reliable is what I need - not bigger.

  43. hi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    can you please stop posting in tt?

    1. Re:hi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, don't feel like it, thanks anyway.

  44. Is it just me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    or did anyone else read the subject as: Nickel Sensors Could Raise Hard Dick Capacity

  45. WTF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What does this have to do with "News for Nerds"?

    If this was news for electrical engineers, or news for computer scientists fine it would be on topic.

    But this slashdot is supposed to be News for Nerds! This means stories about cartoons, government conspiracy theories and why windows suxorz.

  46. Slashdot's newest troll? by resin8 · · Score: 1

    Check his posting history; all his posts mention toast. It's still good for a chuckle because it's only his second day posting.

    10 toast related posts in the last 24 hours. Anonymous Toaster will have to be pretty creative to keep up that pace without getting on everyone's nerves (hot grits, anyone?) Anyway, that's what keeps things interesting around here:)

    1. Re:Slashdot's newest troll? by Autonymous+Toaster · · Score: 1

      "Anonymous Toaster"

      I know I shouldn't respond to this sort of thing, but I just have to point out that there is nothing anonymous about making toast. Every slice is a personal triumph, and it's always sad to see them go.

      Also, I have many other interests. Toasted bread products just happen to be predominant among them. I don't think there's any particular "pattern" to my posts, as you allude.

      Finally, I'm not sure what a "troll" is, but it sounds like it involves fish of some sort, something which toasts particularly poorly (believe me!). That's just an observation.

      Anyway I hope there are no hard feelings. And if there are, I bet I know something warm and crispy that would make them melt away!

      --
      Could I interest anyone in some toast?
  47. I have a problem with this by decarelbitter · · Score: 1

    Quote:
    'a phenomenon called "ballistic magnetoresistance" which is not completely understood'

    Now, would you trust your data to a phenomenon that is not completely understood? I know I wouldn't

    1. Re:I have a problem with this by murphj · · Score: 1
      Now, would you trust your data to a phenomenon that is not completely understood? I know I wouldn't
      Actually, I don't still don't completely understand how floppy disks work, let alone modern hard drives.
      --
      SONY. Because caucasians are just too damn tall.
  48. Re:I hope IBM don't have anything to do with this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe you're right, in which case they won't buy them. Those that do need them, though, need them badly.

    Me, for instance. The last video I did took up 50gb in image data while I was making it, for only 3 minutes of final result. Luckily for me, I only needed to make three minutes worth. If it had been a feature length video... well, I couldn't have done it.

  49. Dude by TheOnlyCoolTim · · Score: 1

    You trust your EXISTENCE to phenomena that are not completely understood.

    Tim

    --
    Omnia vestra castrorum habetur nobis.
  50. Technobabble! by Jogar+the+Barbarian · · Score: 2, Funny

    Ballistic Magnetoresistance?? Souds almost like technobabble; I had a funny thought that you could automatically generate alerts like this every six months using a random "new technology" generator.

    June 2003: Scientists have found they can dramatically increase hard drive capacity using *Ferrous Multipliers*!

    January 2004: Scientists have found they can dramatically increase hard drive capacity using *Quantum Isolators*!

    June 2004: Scientists have found they can dramatically increase hard drive capacity using *Magneto Flux Capacitors*!

    --
    3. Profit!
    2. ???
    1. On Soviet Slashdot, a Beowulf cluster of alien Natalie Portman overlords welcomes YOU!
  51. this is neat and all but by JeanBaptiste · · Score: 1

    I am not so concerned about packing more into less at the moment as disk space (ide anyways) is soooo cheap... I would be much more interested in technologies that improve seek times or improve rpms without having to go to a big expensive raid array....

  52. *sigh* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is just another harsh reminder that I will never see the day that you don't need to buy better hardware anymore. Just when you think they have finaly run out of possibilities for improvement, they go and do this. (I was hoping solid state drives would get cheap within the next few years...kiss that thought goodbye.)

    Then again, I want moores law to be fulfilled already, I hate practicaly buying a new computer every 3 years.

  53. Great, Just Freaking Great..... by Not+The+Real+Me · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've got a bad 41GB IDE HD with bad sectors, a bad 30GB with bad sectors, a dead 20GB HD and a 60GB IDE HD that is acting irrational. I've also RMA'd three 30GB IDE HDs in the last year.

    The ironic thing is I've got five 5.25" full height 9GB SCSIs that are 10+ years old and they work PERFECTLY!

    Before increasing capacity, I'd rather see them increase RELIABILITY. I don't care what they specs say about MTBF. I want real world reliability because I am tired of restoring or having to recover failing drives.

    1. Re:Great, Just Freaking Great..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get a better power supply. Good power does wonders for the life of hard drives.

    2. Re:Great, Just Freaking Great..... by stratjakt · · Score: 1

      Make sure you ground yourself and handle the drives carefully when installing them.

      Sounds like you're the type to kick the computer when you have a fight with your girlfriend (or mom?).

      I dont believe you have 10+ year old 9 gig drives either, but I'm too tired to do a search to prove you wrong.

      I like dirt cheap huge drives. I keep ghost images handy, and if a drive fails my system is back up and running within an hour or two. $1 a gig is much better than a 10 year old 3600 rpm 250 meg piece of crap. Heck RAID 1 would only be $2 a gig.

      Besides, this technology can make drives more reliable. Ultra insane bit density means you have space to spare for redundancy.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    3. Re:Great, Just Freaking Great..... by Not+The+Real+Me · · Score: 1

      Seagate made 9 GB (Seagate lists them as 10.8 GB) drives in the early 90's. Seagate IDs them as ST410800N on their website and on the the hard drive, but when they boot up the SCSI bios reports them as being either SX910800N or SX410800N drives. I've got 5 of these drives, all running 24x7. 3 as additional storage on my Linux web server (primary storage are U160's) and 2 on a Win2K workstation.

      Since you are clearly not the sharpest tool in the shed, I'll save you the time of Googling:
      seagate.com/support/disc/specs/scsi/st410800n.html

      You speaking of 10 year old 250 meg drives shows that you live in your mommy's basement and play with IDE drives. Now go back into your mommy's basement and watch some Star Trek, and when you're done with that you can play some games on your XBox console.

    4. Re:Great, Just Freaking Great..... by ivan256 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The first 5.25" 1GB hard drive was introduced in 1994 (9 years ago). Your 9GB drives are no older than 6-7 years. They are certainly not 10+ years old.

      Any properly treated <= 10k RPM SCSI disk drive you get today will likely last just as long. Also, if it's still working after three years, it'll likely be working after six. You'll find almost all the defects in the first 18 months. It's should be no surprise that cheap IDE disks will be less reliable than the more expensive high quality SCSI disks. They're not just more expensive because of industry colusion. The extra quality costs more to manufacture. Considering that the upgrade cycle for x86 PCs has been less than 2 years for 5 years or so, can you blame the hard drive manufactures for being cheap when a very small percentage of their customers will care?

    5. Re:Great, Just Freaking Great..... by Not+The+Real+Me · · Score: 1

      You are wrong.

      In 1991, Seagate was selling 3.1 GB, 5.25" full height SCSI drives, the ST43400N. I know because I still have 2 of them in production. 1 is on an experimental Linux server. The other is on a Win98 machine that I use to burn CD's.

      Here's a link:
      seagate.com/cgi-bin/view.cgi?/scsi/st43400n .txt

      Seagate was selling the 9 GB, 5.25" SCSI drives in 1993.

      Before telling lies by fabricating history, make sure you get your facts straight.

  54. We need solid-state HD's! by Faeton · · Score: 4, Insightful
    We don't need more HD storage, realistically speaking. Unless you're doing some serious video editing/archiving the internet/archiving pr0n, the 180 gig HD's will do you just fine.

    What we do need is faster access/read times, and an easy way to get that is a solidstate HD. Not a huge amount of storage, maybe about 5-10 gigs worth. Enough to hold the OS and commonly used apps. With RAM prices as low as they are now, where are these things?! I want nano-second access times, not miliseconds! Imagine booting your computer in 3 seconds. Now that would be progress.

    1. Re:We need solid-state HD's! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "maybe about 5-10 gigs worth... With RAM prices as low as they are now, where are these things?!"

      512MB PC2100 = $70(US)
      10GB PC2100 ~ $1,400(US)

      Gee, I can't figure out why there isn't a market for these things.

      The are already storage devices that use RAM and they are prohibitively expensive.

    2. Re:We need solid-state HD's! by rtaylor · · Score: 1

      With RAM prices as low as they are now, why don't you just shove 4GB of ram into your home computer and let the OS data-cache deal with it.

      Nope, won't help your boot time -- but who reboots anymore? Laptops have uptimes measure in months -- even whey they're being carried around during the day.

      --
      Rod Taylor
    3. Re:We need solid-state HD's! by Mitchell+Mebane · · Score: 1

      Imagine booting your computer in 3 seconds. Now that would be progress.

      Bah. My Commodore 64 was doing that 15 years ago. And it used ROM. I've never lost my copy of the C64 OS.

      --

      The roots of education are bitter, but the fruit is sweet.
      --Aristotle
    4. Re:We need solid-state HD's! by Carl+Drougge · · Score: 1
      Imagine booting your computer in 3 seconds. Now that would be progress.

      Progress? My Amiga did that in '92. A little 2.5" HD that spun up really fast, and about 2 secs for the OS to boot. More once you installed interesting stuff I admit, but still. (And like others have already said, even older computers did boot from solid state (ROM) faster than that.)

    5. Re:We need solid-state HD's! by ShooterNeo · · Score: 1

      "the 180 gig HD's will do you just fine". Well, go join an anime divx sharing channel. Or fire up a p2p app for a few months. I know people who have over a terrabyte of divx anime movies, and have to burn new stuff onto dvds to keep up. Sure, right now it looks like 10 terrabytes would be enough to hold all the video you could watch (just like a few gigs can hold more text than you'll ever have time to read in your lifetime), but by that time uses for that much space should become apparent.

    6. Re:We need solid-state HD's! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmmm.. a computer that booted in 3 seconds.. Oh yeah, A commodore 64/128, FROM THE PAST. You know, those 20+ year old things we used to send people into space years ago?

      lol.. I love how technology moves forward.. ;)

    7. Re:We need solid-state HD's! by 7aco7om · · Score: 1

      That 10 GB drive sounds reasonable enough, actually. Not far off from the price of your average first generation hard drive. To be honest, that is a very GOOD price compared to prices I was quoted by a commercial SSD manufacturer, BitMicros. They were quoting me a minimum of $20,000 dollars for one IDE drive. . . ONE DRIVE! I've seen other manufacturers, but these guys offer drives that match or surpass performance of normal HDDs. Other companies I've seen provide disks that put out only about four megabytes a second. The only benefit I see is access time performance. To me, low access times is only half the incentive for a SSD drive. I want a drive that can pack an S-ATA bus with data.

  55. What about colorizing the bits? by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 1

    I had a conversation a couple of days ago with a coworker about how to improve data density on CD's. One of the ideas I suggested was that instead of packing more bits onto the CD, why not colorize them? A red bit would mean one bit of data, yellow would mean another, and so on. That's just an example. It just seems like they could be putting more data on a disc by changing the way the bit is detected.

    It strikes me that there MIGHT be a way to do this in the magnetic world, but I really am not well informed on this topic. Who knows, maybe it's already being done. Enlightening information would be appreciated.

    I guess the real point of my post is that adding more density to the drives isn't the only way to increase storage.

    1. Re:What about colorizing the bits? by asparagus · · Score: 1

      There was some reseach into using 8 shades of grey instead of burning pits into a CD. Each bit became a byte, essentially.

      However, DVD-R already existed in larger sizes and had some sort of standard, so the tech flowed in that direction.

      Optical storage is following the same path as hard drives, though. Increases in rotational capacity (52x CD-ROM's), information density (higher wavelengths/tighter tracks) and finally alternate methods of storing the data itself, such as your idea.

    2. Re:What about colorizing the bits? by alannon · · Score: 2, Informative

      You can't do this for modern optical media because the size of the details of the media is close to the wavelengths of visible light itself. Once you get to that size, there IS no 'color', to speak of, since color is just the size of the wavelength itself. Conventional CD players use red or infrared lasers, I believe, which have a wide wavelength. DVD players on the other hand, use ultra-violet lasers, which have a much smaller wavelength and can be used to read finer details.

    3. Re:What about colorizing the bits? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Umm no. CD-rom uses infrared, DVDs use red. The new Blu-ray oddly enough uses a blue laser. Nobody uses ultraviolet.

    4. Re:What about colorizing the bits? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody uses ultraviolet. 'cept to burn, IIRC...

  56. Useless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nickel filaments are capable of picking up of these weak magnetic fields using a phenomenon called "ballistic magnetoresistance" which is not completely understood.

    You want to store your important data using technology you don't understand?

    - Why log in, no one cares anyway.

    1. Re: Useless by Spiritd0g · · Score: 1

      Quick, how does the hard drive you have now work? I believe you've answered your own question.

  57. ahhh great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    now i just had a hdd crash on me
    40GB of more or less important data vanished
    i guess it's my own fault for not backing it up sooner (ironicaly i just bought 50 empty cd-r the same day)

    but then as we saw in a previous post even cd's and dvd's arnt the perfect solution if we want to preserve data. my guess is that if we want +100 years of safe storage we would have to use piramids since those have been standing for more than 5k years.

    then speed ok i usualy work with 1 realy fast smaler drive and a slower big drive.
    some time ago i saw a pci card that had 16GB ram on it that acted like Vdisk. great make that 80 or more and i'm sold purrrrrrrfect for dv
    realy do you want a disk spinning in your case at 2000000 rpm @ 10000k just so you can cap a rerun of Dr who at a littel higher bitrate?

    anyway cheap temp storage = good
    1TB for 200$ gime gime gime gime now!

    solid state hey i want it
    dont get me wrong there but it wont be secure and it isnt going to be cheap.
    => damn i just droped my memory drive cristal
    splattered in to a bilion pieces, now i gotta defrag :( =

  58. If we can't trust something completely understood. by ArsonPerBuilding · · Score: 1

    ..I guess we can't trust gravity either. Time to rewrite textbooks and remove the word gravity, since apparently we can no longer trust it!

    --
    1 tequila 2 tequila 3 tequila floor
  59. Every new scientific discovery.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...ultimately improves the quality and quantity of pr0n.

  60. What about... by Tuxinatorium · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Carbon nanotubes? Like fullerenes, except they're long cylenders instead of spherical. And they conduct electricity quite well.

  61. Slow? So! by DoraLives · · Score: 1
    Maybe that says that we should be concentrating on fast solid state storage rather than trying to minimize the stuff we have now

    At Terabytes per square INCH(!), I'll cheerfully put up with a little sluggishness in the new media, thank you very much.

    --
    Is it fascism yet?
    1. Re:Slow? So! by roothorick · · Score: 1

      ACK! Please God no! Hard drives are not nearly as fast as we need them! I remember when I could load DooM in 2 seconds on a box that could barely manage 5fps in-game. Today, Unreal Tournament 2003 takes almost a minute to load, yet I regularly top 60fps. If there's one thing in computer technology that isn't growing fast enough, it's hard drive speed. I wanna be able to load UT2k3 in a matter of seconds, not minutes!

  62. My 60GXP in my Tivo keeps on tickin' by John+Jorsett · · Score: 2, Funny

    I don't know what all the fuss about the 60 GXP is about. I've had one running nonstop in my Tivo for 2.5 years with nary a problem. Of course those OTHER 3 I've replaced in my computers kind of ruin the averages ...

  63. World-changing news! by mcrbids · · Score: 1

    Incremental developments in computer technology result in better, faster, cheaper products!

    A lead researcher on the team is quoted as saying: "Yes, this means that current developmental trends will continue..." while another: "We really thought we'd reached the end, but, with this, we can continue revolutionizing the world just like we did last year!"

    In other news, the sun is due to rise again tomorrow sometime in the morning....

    --
    I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
  64. Re:I hope IBM don't have anything to do with this. by Jmstuckman · · Score: 1

    After failure number 3, I gave up on sending my GXP back and bought a Seagate. No problems yet...

  65. Re:I hope IBM don't have anything to do with this. by flyonthewall · · Score: 1
    I think that the hard drive manufacturers need to stop focusing on how big they can make drives, and to start focusing on ways to make drives more reliable. A 200 GB drive is useless if it dies after six months.

    Why should they? All they need to do is ensure that the drives will last about 2 years, after that, the insatiable demands will have them putting out 500Gb and larger drives, relegating the 200s in the realm of obsolete.

    --
    "The avalanche has already started. It's too late for the pebbles to vote." - Kosh
  66. Fluid Dynamic Bearings...and washingmachine drives by skogs · · Score: 2, Informative

    They are trying to make disks more reliable. Fluid dynamic bearings (FDB) don't wear out as easily as ball bearings. You know...that grinding sound that your disk makes as it spins up and searches for data...yeah that goes away with FDB.
    I was just checking out a drive by western digital yesterday with FDB...a 160Gig unit. I think it was about a buck a gig, and I would assume much more reliable than my current lowly 30Gig and 20Gig drives...
    ahhh...progress...

    Hell, I remember being able to work on those REAL hard disk drives. You know, the cartridge ones. Roughly 15 inches in diameter...placed on a unit that stands up to your waist...with a reader arm as big around as my thumb that juts in and out like a pogostick....

    Yeah, those were the days. Those drives are still usefull for the sake of basic electronics study though...makes it nice so that the students can see teh inner workings of a disk drive. I think they only stored like 8 Megabytes....maybe less. :) Sure beat tapes at least.

    --
    Who is this that even the wind and the waves obey Him? Surely this computer must submit also!
  67. Disgusted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are funny off-topic posts. There are trollish off-topic posts.
    And then there's that . Some moronic pervert thinks it's cool to repost a rape fantasy from alt.sex.stories (without the content warnings). Is there any way the editors can remove it ? It simply should not be read (and shouldn't have been written, either).

  68. Big deal! by andy@petdance.com · · Score: 1
    Nickel sensors? We've had technology like this for years, at least since the early 80s.

    Whenever I was at the arcade or Bugsy's Subs, and I lost my last man playing Berzerk, the machine would say "coin detected in pocket!" If we had working quarter sensors back in the 80s, then what's the big deal with nickel sensors now?

  69. Girls by SB5 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Girls have been saying this for years; Size doesn't matter. Anywho, what girls really want is reliability, at least that's what I have been told.

    Then again, I'm slacking on that end, among others....

    --
    If what you are reading sounds funny, or sarcastic, lame, or stupid
    it is because it is supposed to be. just laugh
  70. SSD != RAM by Kjella · · Score: 1

    Well, if you want 3 seconds boot time, you'll need flash ram, not standard RAM, as they lose the info when you power off. (And no, always-on or UPS is not a solution. The day you trip over the power cord to your machine, it'll be CLEARED). It's not so cheap (at least not on the order of gigabytes), and in fact you do need some. Even a standard popular game like NWN easily eat up 2gb alone.

    As for corporate machines, they would probably rather boot their machines from a always-on server which can hold the most common programs in a ramdisk anyway, and simply take the penalty of loading them to ram from disk on the few occasions when the server reboots.

    Kjella

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  71. This could be applied in other ways too by zorander · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Now that we can have (massively?) increased storage capacity per square inch, shouldn't we start seeing hard disks in the 3.5" form factor that are really 4+ way RAID volumes with a builtin hardware driver to make it behave as a normal disk would? That way you'd get basically what you have now but MUCH more reliably and maybe even a little more capacity. (depending on the massiveness of the change this development can cause in size/data ratio)

    Running a PC or a 1U web server on a single hard disk is making for an awfully large failure point if it dies--it's the least replaceable component cause of data loss and they die a lot. Introducing redundancy at this level could help a lot with that issue (and help high density multicomputer serving become more reliable and fault tolerant)

    Brian

  72. Backups... by ForestGrump · · Score: 1

    Yay! now i can backup all the porn on Kazaa....and still have room to spare!

    --
    Is it true that more people vote for the winner of American Idol, than vote for the president? -Ali G.
    1. Re:Backups... by InadequateCamel · · Score: 1

      If I had a nickel for everyone who said that today...

  73. Nitpick by pseudochaotic · · Score: 0

    8 shades of gray is only 2^3, or three bits. There are 256 possible states in one byte.

    --
    And the l33t shall inherit the 34r7h.
  74. damm by hugecrow · · Score: 1

    I just got backups all over my keyboard...

    --
    Enjoy your job, make lots of money, work within the law. Choose any two.
    1. Re:damm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would be called packet loss... ;-)

  75. one point twenty one jigabytes! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    magneto flux capacitors?

    "the only place we could get that much storage is... a bolt of lightning!"

  76. sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Excuse me, but when are we going to start concentrating on speed?

    We need the PC to become 10x smaller and 10x faster. And I don't mean processor speed. The thing slowing the PC down most is the HD and we badly need to remove this as the bottleneck.

  77. "Ballistic Magnetoresistance?" by Maxwell'sSilverLART · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Ballistic Magnetoresistance?" I thought that was the resistance offered by the magnetic platters when I use my .45 to read-protect my drive from the FBI/BSA/MS.

    --
    Moderate drunk! It's more fun that way!
  78. Giant, Colossal... Ballistic? by wirelessbuzzers · · Score: 2, Funny

    This sounds like vaporware. It will never make it to the market: "ballistic magnetoresistance" just doesn't capture the imagination. Extraordinary magenetoresistance was a good start, but I'm looking for the next biggest thing in hard drive technology from either "bloody huge magnetoresistance" or "fucking enormous magnetoresistance" technologies.

    Geez. They might as well have named it obese magnetoresistance. Ballistic my ass.

    --
    I hereby place the above post in the public domain.
  79. Re:I hope IBM don't have anything to do with this. by djrogers · · Score: 1

    In order for that to work, Joe sixpack is going to have to stop buying computersbased on (GB|MB|MHz)/$, and will have to stop buying hard drives at Fry's based on the biggest frive available under $129...

    IBM, Seagate et. all sell to their markets - it'll be a while before priorities change.

    --
    Think outside the... Hey, where'd the friggin' box go?
  80. space concerns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    3.Lastly, Windows XP Pro, installed, takes around 1Gb of space (omg.. that's just ridiculous.. someone shoot me for using XP, I _must_ be a terrorist)

    Yeah, I remember I was shocked when my 2K install took up ~900MB, about three times as much as my previous win98 install. Still, have you looked at any modern linux distros recently? Easily twice the size.

  81. OK mr Smarty pants by Rhinobird · · Score: 1

    How do we know those shorter wavelengths are there if we can't see them?

    --
    If Mr. Edison had thought smarter he wouldn't sweat as much. --Nikola Tesla
    1. Re:OK mr Smarty pants by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We know you have a brain, even though it's too small to be seen. Same principle for wavelengths.

  82. Let me get this straight by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They would want us to store all our sesitive, cherished, irreplaceable, valuable data on HDs "using a phenomenon called "ballistic magnetoresistance" which is not completely understood."
    That makes me feel so relaxed :)

  83. Coulombs by SHEENmaster · · Score: 1

    Tesla might've had his own measuerment, and it may very well be better. Different units are a bitch.

    --
    You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
    1. Re:Coulombs by EggplantMan · · Score: 1
      No, magnetic fields are measured in teslas. The coulomb is a measure of charge. The units are as follows:

      T = N / (A * m) , or T = N / (C * m/s )

      So no, that's utterly wrong. It is not even dimensionally correct.

      --

      ?-|||-----x<*))))><