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Logitech Z-680 Dolby 5.1 PC Speakers Reviewed
PhatBass writes "PC Speakers certainly have come a long way from the little buzzers we used to
listen to before the days of SoundBlaster. Remember the 'Windows Speaker
Driver' that gave you more than beeps and buzzing through the little cone in
your case? Well now we have full Dolby Surround Sound setups, THX
Certified, the works, for Gaming, DVD and Multimedia bliss. Take a look at
the
sweet Z-680 setup from Logitech that is reviewed here, they sport 1000 Watts
of Peak Power, a hardware Dolby Pro Logic II 5.1 Decoder, Digital Inputs and
serious style."
Already gave them a 10 and said they sounded just as good as the Klipsch, at ~200$ cheaper. I trust websites for reviews as much as, heck, as much as I trust slashdot for not posting repeats.
And what, exactly, is PhatBass' job at Logitech?
It's nice to see another critical module in the chain gain respectable levels of refinement. Will this finally be reason enough ofr audiophiles to give PC audio a fair go?
Use ISO 8601 dates [YYYY-MM-DD]
There should be an 'advertisements' topic on slashdot.
With a total output of over 500 watts and a frequency response of 35-22000 Hz you could power a mid sized dance floor... Fact is these figures aren't really true.
The problem is that measuring these figures aren't done according to any standard weighting... the frequency response of my subwoofer at home is 39-200 Hz, the lower end at -3 DeciBels. The problem is these manufacturers don't report weighted figures. For all we know 35 Hz could be at -10 DeciBels, which is much lower than nominal volume.
This is why you never ever read the specs... listen to the speakers.
I'm not saying these speakers are bad. I'm just saying that the figures stated in the specs aren't comparable to professional or HIFI equipment.
.: Max Romantschuk
I use my Yamaha AX6620 amp and Wharfedale diamond 8 5.1 setup with separate subwoofer for my PC's sound.
Using a not-designed-for-pc sound system has its disadvantages, like the speakers are supposed to be shielded but aren't completely, but it's more than made up for by the sound quality.
I used to use a creative 4.1 surround system for the pc, but it used to piss me off because it kept auto turning itself off at low sound levels and there was nowhere to plug headphones in (My main multimedia setup is separated by a thin wall from next door's bedroom so I use headphones after about 10pm).
graspee
Windows Sound Driver? I don't really remember that, but I do remember Links (the Golf Game) and it's simulated the sounds through the pc speaker, I especially remember the random tweating of birds that sounded so grainy and annoying.
So rather than 'beep beep beep' sounds (no not Ellen Fleiss related) it tried a more realistic sounding way (i.e. beeps that lasted milliseconds to make up the overall sound). It still sounded like crap though, until I got a Soundblaster 2.0 that is.
Are you local? There's nothing for you here!
Has anyone been successful in playing sound over the "pc speaker" in linux?
It would have the benefit of allowing sound to be played (fot testing purposes) on boxes with pc speakers but no soundcard.
The correct poewr rating is 505 watts RMS [Root Mean Square], which is what the speakers can handle on a continuous basis.
Don't be swayed that marketing term known as PMPO [Peak Music Power Output] - what the equipment in question can handle/deliver over a very short period of time, typically measured in milliseconds.
Use ISO 8601 dates [YYYY-MM-DD]
Do they include DRM ? Will they block the 'copyrighted' sound entering their digital inputs unless I use a certified driver ?
For the price of most PC Surround sound speakers and cards you could buy a nice Surround Sound stereo system and run your PC audio through it, and it usually sounds alot better. I have seen it done mayof times and the sound quality is superb.
[n8.r0n] http://petesweb.spymac.net/
Let me see, my desk is against the wall, which puts me less than half a metre from the front three speakers. Unless I place the rear speakers in the way in the middle of the room behind me, I'm going to have put some major delay and volume adjustments in to the setup. 5.1 DD on a computer just sounds like a silly idea to me. 5.1 DD coming out of my XBox in the living room does work though ;)
Oh, and as for that Windows speaker driver. It was a pain in the arse: the whole system would pause for playback of even the most simple sounds.
And they kick arse..
I've been waiting for the 5.1 version of these to come out..
The loudest/clearest set of PC speakers I've ever heard.. utterly brilliant..
"Consider how lucky you are that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far
5.1 speakers have been around for YEARS. My sound card (Hercules Fortissimo III) supports 7.1 audio - show me the speaker setup for that and I'll be impressed/buying.
When will speaker manufacturers stop quoting meaningless figures?
I don't trust that the spec values reported by Logitech would have much to do with those spec values that would be get if such setup would be measured according to normal audiophile standards. If you want to have some real high fidelity, give a try to monitor speakers by, for example, them (but do not expect them to be too cheap).
Can any sound engineer types out there give a brief overview of the sound quality differentials between this standard of speaker with a good sound card and the sort of kit you can fork out a shed load of cash for at your local hifi dealer?.
I know judgement of sound quality can be a very subjective thing but I am curious when I can get a PC sound system very reasonably but can (assuming I had the cash) pay thousands of dollars/euro in a store for hifi equipment. Is the price difference reflected in the sound quality ?
For that matter how do I know my hearing is good enough to distinguish the difference ?
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
What the hell does peak power have to do with sound quality? My 75W speakers produce much nicer music than many 300W powerhouses. While I can see the "cool factor" of having enough power to bring down the house and ruin your hearing, I dont see much use for it. How many people do really find real use for this? What good reasons can you come up with to justify owning these?
Oh, and "it scares the terrorists" is not good enough.
But the best combo I've seen is an Audigy2 or M-Audio Revolution and the Klipsch Promedia 5.1's. If you watch a lot of movies, get the Klipsch DD5.1 preamp/ DD/DTS decoder to go with them and use the card's digital connector. This is not a cheap setup (about $100 for the card, $350 for the speaks, and $170 for the decoder) but nothing touches this right now in computer sound.
I'd like to ask a simple and possibly silly question:
Why not just go to a normal stereo store, and buy a normal stereo?
More PC speaker sets are designed to be small enough to not dominate your desk, as the idea is that your PC is not your primary music/movie station. This monster will require you to definitely change your layout for maximum effect.
So if I am going to make my PC be my media hub, why not just buy a normal stereo system, and be done with it?
Sure, a system like this might make sense if you are in a space limited environment like an apartment in a city, or a dorm.
www.eFax.com are spammers
PC Speakers certainly have come a long way from the little buzzers we used to listen to before the days of SoundBlaster. Remember the 'Windows Speaker Driver' that gave you more than beeps and buzzing through the little cone in your case? Well now we have full Dolby Surround Sound setups, THX Certified, the works, for Gaming, DVD and Multimedia bliss. Take a look at the sweet Z-680 setup from Logitech that is reviewed here, they sport 1000 Watts of Peak Power, a hardware Dolby Pro Logic II 5.1 Decoder, Digital Inputs and serious style[slashdot.org]
they sport 1000 Watts of Peak Power
Never believe what they say on the specs about Watts if it's not written RMS Watts. (the only standardized way to mesure Watts). And if they are really serious they'll speak about Db, not Watts.
Also you don't want to listen to a 1000 RMS Watts speaker in your comfy little room, believe me... Probably your windows would break and your ears wouldn't like it at all. A concert room or a stadium is another story...
Because now my cubicle neighbours toupé will fly up
and stick to the roof every time Windows does the Plong! thing on me
They are posting articles that correspond to OSDN affiliation elsewhere, and posting the URLs under related links.
/. for doing this, just thought i'd point it out incase anybody hadn't noticed.
I'm not getting at
What is it with the control freakery in the media industry? I should buy THX speakers so I can listen to Lucas' cheesy slosh the way Lucas intended it? On Sundays from 7 through 10, using a DVD that plays only between the 45th and 47th longitude -- just the way Lucas intended?
Fuck it. Dolby 5.1 and THX suck. And home theaters are pathetic dick protheses.
The PC speaker driver used pulse-width modulation to simulate audio waveforms. That is why it sounded so crunchy. It also CRUSHED your system while it was playing a sound because (I think) it was toggling an interrupt for each pulse. Did you notice how everything else stopped during playback?
Somebody rolled the driver out to about 10 Win NT 4 boxen at my old office as an "upgrade". When we upgraded to Win 2000, the driver remained in place, and still worked. Gack.
Now for the rant.
Nothing exposes how poor MP3 (or even CDs) sound like owning a real quality pair of speakers connected to a clean amp. I have a Nakamichi AV-10 driving B&W DM-603 speakers. I connect the Nakamichi to the digital output of my Turtle Beach Montego soundcard, and it works well enough. Unfortunately, the fidelity of the system makes MP3 files almost unbearable for serious listening.
So do yourselves a favor. If you listen to MP3, buy crappy PC speakers and let your imagination fill in the gaps.
Awsome (Logitech) 3 speaker system for $36 (newegg). Search for internet reviews, they're quite a bargain.
Improvement is always welcome tho. Now all we need is someone to spruce up the remaining links and we might have some hope yet.
Interestingly, I have seen some PCI soundcards quited with an SNR of >90 dB [Philips, Hoontech.] Are these for real? PC mag tests seem to verify so...
Use ISO 8601 dates [YYYY-MM-DD]
Why do these speakers sound like early '80's processors?
Always going forward, 'cause we can't find reverse.
At the risk of being downvoted, I don't like speakers at all. Headphones are the way to go. Not those awful one-dollar piezoelectric crystal widgets that go into your ears and break after a week because the wire was too thin. I'm talking about those massive black headphones that totally cover your ears, muffle external sound and sound better than most cheesy OEM speakers. Good for hearing the direction of your opponents' footsteps in Counterstrike, too. I remember first trying a set of these headphones out on the glass-house demolition test map of Red Faction... mmm...
I tried these things at Best Buy / CC a while ago. Not the 5.1 but the 4.1 variant. I was certainly not impressed.
:)
I ended up walking away with the Klipsch THX 5.1 package, this thing ROCKS. Best speakers I've ever heard - for computing at least. Granted, I'm no audiophile.
My only complaint would be some flatness near the very low end - but my wife doesn't appreciate me shaking the house anyway.
Naturally, the volume controller has a headphone mic that cuts out the normal speakers. I really wish it had a mic. jack on it too, that would be perfect for voice-command games (like CS).
...It will blow your 1337 PSU.
for SINGLE driver speakers.
I don't care who says they sound great. Single driver satellites can not make the frequency response of a good woofer and tweeter.
I'll keep my Klipsch speakers.
But is the remote infrared or RF, and if the former, is there a receiver that can be mounted on your desk ? Because I sure as hell can't stand pointing my remote under my desk.
And is there a headphone jack that extends to the desktop ?
For my money, the best thing I've seen was the external box on the Creative Audigy Ex. All the ports you need, right on your desk, with a wireless remote. Wish the Audigy2 had the Ex model when I bought mine. Of course, it matters less now that I've sworn off gaming, but that's another story.
Yo, you know what buddy?
Time to start drinking booze soon! Why? IT'S FRIDAY
Just think for a second, why do you want to pay for the Dolby digital or even Pro Logic decoding? Are you going to watch movies on your 19 inch tube or something? Don't you have a TV for that?
For serious gaming performance, you can grab any half-decent amplifier with 5.1 input plus 4 satellites. That gives you nice surround sound for EAX games. Plus the sound quality wipes the floor with these "multimedia THX" systems. Add woofer if necessary.
Kids these days, mumble mumble mumble.....
PMPO measurement is quite useless, because there is no exact standard how PMPO power should be measured.
You have to divide by 10 or 12 in fact. Not 2.
Seeing the size of the amplifier, you can guess that it can't be a 1000 W RMS.
Take a true amplifier (like mine, a Yamaha)
it's about a 110 W (true RMS) and weights about 811.3 lbs.
So not a big news in fact. See that PMPO is still a live, 8 years later.
(See This page )
But question is : Will it be supported by Linux ?
1000 watts peak is pure fiction.
It is similar to a measurement on a car, where you rev up the engine to max and suddenly let go of the clutch. I'm sure most car engines will "measure" more than 5 times the sustained max power for a few milliseconds.
A 1960 VW Beetle 1100 cc engine has 150 horsepowers if you measure that way.
-- From Denmark
Don't be fooled by the supposedly massive power output of this system. I've heard such systems many times, and pumping that much power (probably 1000W PMPO ~= 500W RMS?) into tiny plastic housed speakers really sounds quite crap.
I've got VASTLY better sound by connecting the audio output (headphone socket) from my old Soundblaster AWE 32 (ISA) straight to some Mission bookshelf speakers using a custom cable (3.5mm stereo jack to twin speaker cable!). That sounds card had a reasonable 12W RMS power amp on board that most new sound cards don't have (only line out or 4W headphone). I was surprised at how good this set up actually sounded. It lacked in the old bass department if you turned the sound the right up, but it was fine for normal listening levels or watching films.
A cheap (and VERY old Yamaha amp from eBay) made this set up even better (and provided me with a tuner!). All this for much less money and WAY more sound quality.
If you don't believe me, try it yourself. Get a really cheap old amp, and use your real hi-fi speakers - I can guarantee it will sound better than any plastic computer speakers ever will.
You don't need 5 channels - this just makes music sound crap and is just a gimmick for gamers. It's far better to get a decent stereo set up working first and if you really want 5 channel audio - then an old dolby digital amp off e-bay will definitely sound better than a package like this Logitech system.
The "1000W" figure is a complete joke! My £1000(GBP = $1500USD) NAD system is only 65W per channel and sounds stunningly good even using bookshelf speakers. Never EVER be tempted to equate output power to sound quality (especically if the power is measured PMPO rather than RMS) and never underestimate how bad small speakers sound compared to larger ones. Two tiny (10cm drivers) speakers + subwoofer does not in any way equate to the quality obtained by two half decent mid-sized bookshelf hi-fi speakers.
Nick...
Absolutely true, luckily every other review i have read to date states 500 watts RMS ,, YAY!!!
YOU SUCK BALLS!
I'm sorry. Any time I see power output expressed in terms of peak power I have to stick my finger down my throat. Peak power = snow job.
- Hail to our fearless misleader! Fool speed ahead!
... on your mobo! ;)
t m
this mobo has the latent audiophile in me fairly interested... has anyone played with it?
http://www.aopen.com/products/mb/ax4b-533tube.h
i keep thinking about it... but don't think the rest of mobo is really as 'top notch' like the newest chipset mobo's offer
Just like everything else that has the words "computer" on it related to audio.
If you want really good computer speakers to listen to music on or as a good audio refrence... go to your local guitar center and buy a set of studio monitors and a studio amp... they're over in the mixer section...
For the same amount of cash as these overpriced and horribly overrated junk you can get something real.
I found the most entertaining the 1000 watt rating.. Yeah right. in low-end car audio ratings... I have a Crown stereo amp here that is only 25 watts and cost $400.00 and will kick the crap out of anyone's home stereo that cost around $400.00
a watt rating is 100% useless... tell me the watt rating RMS at a distortion level. anything higher than 0.05% THD is junk.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
OK,
Obviously THX has lowered the bar for audio in the PC world. As far as I am concerned, they've just pissed all over their name. Why is it impossible to get THX for home theater for anywhere near this price point ($399 retail w/amp and decoder)? Because Logitech does not use industry standard methods for rating the frequency response of their system, we can only assume that it is crap. I would imagine that if you added the +/-3db standard, their numbers would look a lot appealing.
So anyway... What have others found to be a cheap, high-performance system? Myself - I use Energy's Take 5.2 sub/sat system with a Marantz SR6200. The combo was less than $1k (if you shop around... I don't want to plug any more at this point) and it sounds better than some of the other stuff that I tested - better than the Polk RM7200s but not quite as deep as the RM7600s. However - the speakers sounded only decent until about two months of use. I didn't really believe in "break-in" periods until I experienced this for myself (tip - run them at "full range" and moderate volume for break-in and then cross them up and crank it). Although none of this equipment has THX logos on it, I enjoy it tremendously.
So my question is - what are other good "budget" audio systems out there? The Energy 5.2 system is available on the street for less than $600 and I have yet to see something competitive with that.
Anyone?
Nope, I had my Amiga 500's stereo outputs plugged into my Hi-Fi, I couldn't have imagined using a computer with a poxy little speaker inside the case as the only audio output!
If you want to know how much power your sound system REALLY does, have a look at the power supply.
My "Cambridge Soundworks" for example figures 13.5V 2.5A on it. 1 Watt is 1V * 1A, so 13.5V*2.5A = 32.4 Watt. When the speakers continously output 32.4 Watt, the powersupply is right at the point of catching fire. Standard engineering practice mandates to leave a safety margin, so my system probably draws about 25 Watts from the powersupply. From these 25 Watts, a considerable part is converted into (audible) sound pressure, while the rest is converted into heat.
I'd be suprised if that "1000W" Logitech system did more REAL Watts than my "Cambridge Soundworks" system.
1000 watts of power would break these speakers down to thier base chemical components :-)
In reality theres probably 25 watt amps for the satellites and 50 watts for the sub. This is pretty typical in PC speaker setups, even loud ones.
"Corporate rock still sucks. What are you gonna do about it?"
don't click on this - this is so off topic it's not even funny
When I first heard about THX certification in Computer Desktop I applauded the Idea. I just figured they were coming of age.
;-)
Now every major PC Speaker companies has some top-of-the-line THX certified set, and Creative even has a soundcard that is THX certified. It seemed that the THX certification was not that hard to get, since most of these system do not compare with real Home Theatre setups...
And then I read this article about the merger of ILM, Skywalker Sound an LucasFilm and most important : the fact that LUCAS SOLD THX to "investors including Creative Labs"
I'll bet that the other investors are some form of Logitech/Klipsch/AltecLansing related corps
The only valid reason to buy a THX set is when the THX-logo is big enough to put a homemade "-1138" emblem behind it...
blaah !
Wannabe audiophile here. I'd like to use my PC as a center piece (if not the center piece) of my home audio system. That means, in descending order of importance, DVDs, home studio/music production, CDs, mp3s, and games.
:/
Now, I know the moment I put 'music production' in there it opens up a whole can of worms. When I do serious music production I go to a studio, but I like to dink around on my home system so I don't spend any more time (and $) in a studio than I have to. Also, as I have just a nice-action MIDI controller and no piano (Fatar SL-990), I practice on it as well.
Right now I have a Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum with old Creative 4.1 surround speakers. The speakers were nice a few years ago as computer speakers, but in a few months I'd like to invest in something more suited to what I use all this stuff for. Given the plethora of outputs on the Audigy, I'm happy to pick up any kind of stereo receiver and/or speakers, but I know very little about stereo receivers or speakers.
Is it a lost cause to try and use your PC as a general purpose sound system in this way? Like, should I just stick with the computer speakers for computery stuff and get real speakers for music production & CDs? That's a bit cumbersome and ugly in terms of wires going everywhere.
Thanks very much!
Aquitaine
Plenty of people have pointed out that 1000W PMPO is irrelevant, but I will tell you that the total of 505W RMS doesn't mean that much either - at least without other information.
What I want to know is: how many decibels @ 1W, 1m? I have a pair of speakers which are 200W each, and I bet they're louder! There's also the harmonic dirstortion - will the system start flattening out sine waves when it gets near the maximum output level?
Here's another thing: the quoted range for the system is 35Hz - 20kHz, but they don't specify the frequency deviation. If it's more than +/- 3dB, then it's going to start sounding uneven.
Someone asked about the difference between good speakers and bad ones. Here's a couple:
That last one is something I really appreciate with my speakers. Try this: turn your speakers up to a good volume, good pumping bass etc. Then turn them right down - can you still hear the bass? On cheapers systems that'll disappear quicker than the higher frequencies. Good speakers will "kick" without being intrusive.
-- Steve
In fact, it seemd to me that the specifications routinely used with PC audio ("peak power", "maximum SPL", etc.) are much like mobile audio back in the mid 80s. Based on misperception, myth, and hype.
"1000 watts Peak Power" gives me about as much information about the actual audio performance as "1.5 Ghz processor" tells me about the PC it's attached to.
Everyone will start to cheer when you put on your sailin' shoes.
I agree whole heartedly with the parent comment, with a couple of reservations.
HiFi store for nice sound quality. HiFi speakers are designed to sound "nice" to your ears, by introducing various colorations that are not present in the original signal
I disagree with the term 'colorations' - this suggests that various extra signals can be introduced by speakers. Generally this can only be true for processing components like the pre amp, pre amp or the DAC. Speakers only vary in thier response at a particular frequency.
If you want to have accurate sound reproduction, you should consider buying studio monitors
Well yes and no. Monitors are designed for as flat a frequency response as possible and therefore be as unforgiving as possible of the source signal. That in itself will not give you a 'nice' sound quality, it will only show you the colorations in the rest of the system.
If you use Near Field Monitors than you are using speakers that are specifically designed to present the stereo image when right on top of them, whereas most HiFi speakers will only present an accurate image at a distance roughly equivalent to thier seperation.
If you are using the speakers in a normal PC setup then you need Near Field Monitors such as those produced by the late TDL, or as you suggest the Spirits (Haven't checked your other recommendations, always myself found Tannoys a little bright)
On a PC I doubt you really want a monitor grade sound reproduction system. They are designed to be totally unforgiving and highlight every single detail in the sound field. On a PC the hiss and pop of the 2 dollar DAC is going to be in your face, the distortions from MP3 compression, all that nasty clicking and buzzing becuase the sound card is unshielded and sitting in a fairly harsh RF environment.
Besides 'clinical' sound quality is not the same as 'good' sound quality. A totally clinical reprodcution is very tiring to listen to beacuse the faults are so obvious it detracts from the stuff that is okay.
For most people I would advise go and listen to the stuff you want to buy, NO HiFi component is perfect in its response so put together a chain of components that sound pleasing to your ear. If you listen for pleasure then your requirements are different from those running a home studio.
The better and more transparent you make your system the less source material you will have to play on it. Its no surprise that the majority of CD's are mastered with compression and effects and a tonal balance to make them sound good on 100 dollar boom boxes because thats 95% of the market - on a good HiFi it will sound terrible, on a monitor grade system unlistenable. Its no coincidence that most HiFi enthusiasts end up listening to classical music and live concert albums, as these are the few that are general produced in a tonal flat manner.
Put it this way - a soft focus photograph is generally a better portrait image to most people than a pin sharp unflattering photograph. The same goes with HiFi
In terms of is your hearing good enough to hear the difference - well that depends.
If your hearing is not damaged then it potentially is good enough, if its trained. Once you start listening to a quality system you may not notice right away the improvement, but go back to listening to the boom boxes and it will sound horrible and muddy. Then you will start to notice some of your albums sound more open, crisper, deeper, the sound more full,; yet others will remain closed in like sounds coming from in a bucket.
You can tell by the emotive, non technical words I'm using that the subtleties of tonal reproduction bettween a good system and a great system are exactly that - subtle - and very personal. The only person that can tell is YOU.
My rule of thumb is that for every zero you add the sound quality doubles. So a 100 'quid lifestyle hifi' sounds twice as good as a 10 quid radio. A 1000 quids worth of decent HiFi sounds twice as good. To get better you need to spend 10000 quid - and most people will stop with a system of a couple of grand because to get better costs so much more.
In summary to the original question you can get much better kit for not much more than a PC speaker system from your local HiFi dealer - but its not worth spending a huge amount because the PC as a source is very low quality.
Having just purchased TWO sets of the Z680 speakers for myself (to replace two previous sets of Z560's) I'd like to remind all you "figure comparison specialists" that it's best to listen for youself before you cut them down. These speakers are fantastic and are even better than Logitech's previous series the Z560's (which were a hard act to top for their price range). Well worth the rather large portion of your paycheque none-the-less, so wander down to your local computer store (CompuSmart, CompUsa, FutureShop, BestBuy, etc) and take a listen... You won't be sorry.
$280 for a speaker system with two digital inputs, one input for analog stereo, one input for analog 5.1, and it doesn't support DTS. vs. 5 home theater in a box systems at BestBuy for under $290 shipped. One of them even has a progressive DVD player built-in.
-- Terry
Ive had many a friend brag on about thier latest computer speakers are rated from 250 ~ 500 Watts (RMS mind you). And I say, oh yeah? I bet I should be able to beat my Peavy 2x12" guitar amp thats only a measly 160Watts.. and they say, for sure! I bring my amp over, put it on 7 (thats all it takes) and jam out some chords. Gives them a new perspective on Wattage rating (and a nice ring in the ears). Its the same crap they have been pulling for years on low end car stereo equipment. RMS != true power folks.
Welcome!
Blueass88
Don't make no rouge pizza's outta rouge possom's or get in pissin matches with skunks.
over -n- out maaan!
Okay, I won't continue the RMS/Peak power output statement that are already all over this thread, but here's another thing that occurred to me:
:)
Right now my 2 speaker audiophile system (first real expensive thing I bought out of college) is hooked into the onboard soundcard playing my mp3 collection on 'random'. Some of those songs were 'aquired'. Some of them are 128 kbps and above, a bunch aren't.
While I'm coding and the parrot is singing along, and the system is playing a 96 kbps mp3, I don't really notice the incredible sound response from my setup.
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
Am I the only one who is looking for STEREO (meaning 2) speakers? I personally think 5.1 sounds is just plain ridiculous. I have a few friend with 5.1 setups and its just UGLY. 2 cheap looking speakers behind them, mounted on cheezy little plastic stands. Everytime one of them turns around in their chair the chair knocks over the damned cheap little things. Just stupid.
However, 5.1 computer sound DOES seem to be winning the marketing race. You cannot find many 2 speaker setups out their for sale.
I'm not looking for the fountain of youth. I don't think I'm asking for too much, but I want:
1. 2 speakers + sub.
2. A headphone jack on the friggin FRONT of one of the speakers. Not on the back of the sub. Who thought putting a headphone jack on the back of the sub was a GOOD IDEA?
3. A dial for volume. I HATE those speakers with 2 buttons, one for "louder" and the other for "quieter", because they always change volume WAY to slowly.
4. A little QUALITY. I don't want speakers so cheap and lightweight that when I grab for the volume knob they float accrossed my desk like an airhockey puck.
Now I'm just getting pissed thinking about all the cheap crap speakers that are out there. Please let me know if ANYONE makes a half way decent pair.
Don't get duped!
The specs say 505 watts total power.
The specs say an input impedance of 10,000 ohms and this means the power amplifier is built in.
A built in power amplifier also means that there is an internal power supply which has, at best, 85% efficiency, requiring 594 watts from the wall plug.
Now look at the power rating on the unit, and you can bet it has a rating less than 500 watts.
Since most of the public (and probably most engineers)don't understand the ratings,we find manufacturers providing deceptive advertising.
More power SELLS better!
Back in the 60's and early 70's the audio industry went through RMS power, Peak Power, Music Power, Instantaneous Peak Music Power, and perhaps one or two other meaningless terms. Why? Because RMS power doesn't describe the instaneous power needed for speakers to reproduce the sound of a sudden drumbeat or crashing cymbol without distortion and that requires a very large power for amout 1/4 second. Large power ratings impress the ignorant and opens up more wallets.
Then there is the frequency response of -3db (half power, +/- 3db, and -10db. Never mind that the power level is so low that you can't hear the bass or highest frequencies.
Next there's the distortion figure at each power level. If your car tag rattles with the bass sounds you probably don't care, but if you want to hear the brush on the drum, 3% distortion will bother you. More power generally means more distortion.
When the engineers and audophiles finally started asking questions and publishing reports about the misleading specs, they finally stopped. Now, with a new generation of listeners, they are back.
Moral: Pay attention to the specs. and listen to the speakers. There's more to audio than just sound.
Because Klipsch is merely a loudspeaker company, but Logitech is all about bringing value to the consumer!
Klipsch actually has 2 5.1 systems (with decoders) Their new system is only $299. see it here.
The kicker? you can add up to 16 sub modules. pow!
I don't work for them, yadda yadda.
semantics are everything!
I know this is a complete troll, but it really happened: I read your third point as "RMS' shower figures don't mean much, either."
Time for a coffee.
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
does it go up to 11 ?
does anyone really care about crappy pc speakers that look like most other pc speakers here on /. ? wouldn't we just go to tom's hardware or something to get reviews on it?
You missed my point - my point was that instead of buying this expensive system and hooking it up to your PC, why not buy a standard stereo system and hook it up to your PC.
For the money, you could buy a far better normal stereo system than you could buy this system.
www.eFax.com are spammers
if they have finally fixed the subwoofer amplifier? In the old 'premium' model the sub had a tendency to blow up very quickly if the speakers were used at mid+ volumes on bass-heavy songs.
There's a msg board where some people were on their 3rd or even 4th set of speakers, which is really ridiculous...
-- the cake is a lie
If you want good sound, you want to get some professional "nearfield monitors." These are designed to be used with computers and sound excellent. Go to your local pro audio store, they will have many models ranging from a few hundred bucks for passive ones to many thousands of dollars for very powerful ones with active crossovers. Good brands include Genelec, Tannoy, Hafler, and even Mackie.
It is very highly recommended that you get ones with digital inputs or get a seperate digital>analog converter. At that point the weakness will be your room. You can build "Helmholtz Resistors" (boxes with a specific volume of confined air) to absorb bass frequencies centered around your major room mode.
burris
I resent the intro to this article... ... People stuck with beeps and bloops before 1992, it's your own stupid fault. If you had supported something cool back then instead of waiting for the lameass PC to get its shit together, there might be a successor to the amiga that would blow away the game systems of today.
My Commodore 64 had 10 times better sound in 1984 than my IBM PS/2 did in 1990.
And by 1990, there was the Amiga, with 4 channel stereo sound
of course, by the time Microsoft/PCs had caught up in terms of sound and graphics, theres wasn't really any competition left... so now by default, crappy pc systems seem 'advanced'.
""If it's not loud, it doesn't work!" -- Blank Reg, from "Max Headroom"
/. comments, only to find the above as Slashdot's "random" quote...
Just finished reading the article and the
Heh.
Janie took my gun...
In other words, if I don't watch movies on my PC, why would I need more than my onboard CMI stereo chipset? (nudge, prod)
My debut novel AMITY now available: http://jeremydbrooks.c
At a given RPM a car will produce a given amount of power. Dropping the clutch at a high RPM will not increase this... most cars make their peak power considerably below redline. It would be nice if all that it took to make more power was increasing the redline.
That being said, I definitely agree that measuring peak power for speakers is a load of crap and even RMS isn't that great unless you look at all the other measurements.
http://www.mackie.com/sr/srm450/index.html
Ok I bought them for other reaons, but damn do they make great computer speakers.
-- oh.... so..... sleeeeeepy.
I listen on a set of Grado RS-1 headphones, run through a Creek OBH-11se amp..
And yeah, I listen to the output of the soundcard on my laptop. I know, that's almost blashemy... but....
I have to agree. I know my headphones aren't quite reference.. they do introduce some coloration... but they are more responsive than, well, anything I've ever heard. And I agree.. many cds that sounded good on my little stereo sound like dirt. I can hear how lacking they are in dynamic range, and how crappy the recording is.
I thought my hearing couldn't tell.. but the second I go back to any other headphone I can get my hands on, I can immediately hear where things are tight and costrained.
Apple has fallen drastically behind in the speaker-wattage department.
It's a real issue. This Logitech speaker system is capable of 1000 watts. 1000! Thats a gigawatt! Meanwhile, my pathetic Apple SoundSticks - which they still sell on the AppleStore, are capable of a mere 65 watts.
Absolutely brutal. Never mind the quality, or the aesthetics... it is plainly obvious to myself (and indeed, everyone here) that the higher number of watts clearly indicates complete superiority in my listening productivity. It is folly to argue otherwise; I mena, there is the number. 1000 watts vs. 65.
Apple better damn well come up with some 1500 watt speakers in the next 10 seconds otherwise I'm going to go buy some JBL gear and really maximize my hearing of music.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
Just like everything else that has the words "computer" on it related to audio.
If you want really good computer speakers to listen to music on or as a good audio refrence... go to your local guitar center and buy a set of studio monitors and a studio amp... they're over in the mixer section...
For the same amount of cash as these overpriced and horribly overrated junk you can get something real.
I found the most entertaining the 1000 watt rating.. Yeah right. in low-end car audio ratings... I have a Crown stereo amp here that is only 25 watts and cost $400.00 and will kick the crap out of anyone's home stereo that cost around $400.00
a watt rating is 100% useless... tell me the watt rating RMS at a distortion level. anything higher than 0.05% THD is junk.
I've got the 4.1 version, which appears to have the same sub and drivers, minus the fancy controller and center out. I picked them up at CompUSA during a recent promotion for $150.
For what it's worth, it does put out a lot of relatively clear sound. This is the first system that I can turn up well beyond the level of physical comfort without severe distortion.
Only negatives are that It's a little boomy, and it doesn't do so hot at playing low volume levels - cuts out just when you get it down low enough to not wake up the kids in the next room.
I've got a Creative 5.1 DTT3500 hooked up to a budget Live card and a wireless Sony headphone set (RF845r) as a 'don't annoy the neighbours' backup. The sound goes to the decoder through a digital cable (TOS-out was not on my card so I bought an add-on). I've also got a Playstation 2 hooked up to the decoder for games and films.
The sound from this system freaks my friends out as far as quality and loudness is concerned.
Loudness - I've never turned the volume up to max because I'm worried what it would do to my neighbours. As it is, the subwoofer gets the floor and ceiling of my flat vibrating (at midpower). When I open my windows people can dance to the music in the courtyard five stories down. I don't use the full power of the system because 'I'm really an okay guy' (even if I do work for a corporation (sort of)).
Quality - I put 128 and 192 bit mp3s through Winamp, tweak the equalizers and the digital decoder adds some of its own magic. Wow. DVD sound is even better.
There are some tweaks that I'll make to the system because I can sometimes hear hiccups and interference but I've got a better sound system with a mountain of albums (took a while to rip) available at a click for $700 (cheaper now) , than my friends who bought home stereo systems for $1500. Bang & Ollufsen it isn't but it's still great.
Or make sure your MP3s are encoded at 320 and not 128.
I still can't figure out why *anyone* uses CBR MP3s at all. CBR produces significantly lower quality for a given amount of data (in my listening tests, CBR requires about 50% more data than VBR to get equivalently good-sounding audio). There is *one* reason that CBR was developed, and that's for streaming audio over the network. If you aren't running a streaming server, for the love of God, use VBR encoding.
May we never see th
You can buy them here, if they're not out of stock. Bear in mind that many of the online reviews are of the form "Let us pretend that I have money to burn".
And no, I have not even seen this model.
They are the best speakers I've ever heard. All you stuck up audiophiles who can't admit something that's made for computers sounds good can kiss it. You've never heard anything on them. The sound that comes out of mine (500 Watt "rating") would break your ear drums and sounds crystal clear. Hits the highs high, and the lows low. I'm sure there's something better, but mine set me back $200. The 5.1 are a little more expensive, and I'm not sure it's worth it for the extra channel, digital in is appealing to me. I can't stand your whining about get something else, computer speakers suck, blah blah blah. Everyone who I've shown these speakers to has admitted they're absolutely amazing. Even a friend who wasted his money on Klipsch crap wanted to return his overpriced, crappy sounding speakers.
kiss off
My Linux Command of the Day site : LCOD
I have these speakers and I agree with the review, so much so that I reviewed them myself. These are quite possibly the best speakers I've ever heard.
jasp
If you're in the market for some PC/DVD speakers I can whole heartedly recommend these I don't have a single complaint and you can get them quite cheap if you shop around, about $70 or so.
I have mine hooked to a dvd player and a playstation. I found a neat gadget that converts TosLink to Coax digital and I can use both ports without moving cables. I also found a very simple optical switcher which can take up to 3 optical ins and output to a single out; I plan on using that for a toslink enabled cdplayer.
However there is one problem which is kind of known, tom's hardware has a review of these speakers too which mentions it, and I haven't sent my back in yet but I did complain to support so they do know about it. They hiss. All of the speakers hiss audibly, not to bad when set up for movies because you're not right next to them, but if I had them on my computer it would drive me crazy.
The rumor on the street is that Logitech will replace them if you complain about it. All the ones that hiss have a firmware revision at 1.03, the new ones are supposedly 1.1. Supposedly Logitech didn't shield the controller very well, it's just a simple plastic case, and this is where the hiss is coming from. It's very annoying, but they are so good and incredibly loud (haven't tested quite how loud yet), that I've been slow to send the controller back to have it fixed.
The also click audibly when switching between inputs, but it's not bad, i.e. you don't feel that the speakers are going to pop. I did turn down the subwoofer though as it's a little too strong. The remote is basic but functional, wish it was backlit.
One thing is they come with some pretty horrible bell wire for speaker cable. Which is fine for computer use I suppose, but one of the first things I did was rip it all out and replace it with some 16 guage. Sounds much better now. For the price though they are pretty much unbeatable.
...and it is excellent. Very loud and clear. Definately 399$ wworth.
The cost of this system is MORE than comparable stereos purchased from a stereo store!
That's the part I don't get - why spend MORE money to get LESS?
www.eFax.com are spammers
There appears to be some confusion here about amplifier power, speaker efficiency, and power handling.
1) Most standard domestic equipment can, at least excluding sub-bass frequencies, produce entirely acceptable sound pressure levels of 100-105dB or so. For a nearfield environment, which a PC is, I cannot see a substantial reason to be particularly concerned about peak output levels.
2) "Watts" are not a particularly meaningful measurement. The amplifier and speaker load will have specific interactions, and the volume for a given power level will vary with speaker efficiency.
3) Speaker efficiency is *not* a measurement of speaker quality.
4) The human hearing system is non-linear, and it requires a substantial increase in power level to increase the perceived volume level by 100%. (e.g. 100W, all else equal, is only twice as loud as 10W.)
5) Speakers have two types of power handling: one is the limit of physical excursion, i.e. how far the speaker will move before reaching its physical excursion limit and typically making "thwack" sounds. (With the risk of damage, of course.) Speakers tend to be measured in terms of *thermal* power. Because they are not very efficient, they tend to generate large quantities of heat. At some power level, this will not be properly dissipated and will cause adhesives, etc. to melt and damage the drivers. Thermal power tends not to be too bad a concern. If one is looking to generate high levels of sub-to-mid bass, one needs to be sure that the speaker's excursion capability is up to the task.
6) Having said that, using an underpowered amplifier and turning it up so that it clips will generate a lot of unwanted high frequencies, which may exceed a tweeter's thermal power handling. A tweeter's thermal power handling is designed considering the frequency distribution of typical programme material, i.e. only a fraction of power should be handled by the tweeter.
It's a tricky problem, and really a compromise must be reached taking into consideration stereo frequency response, room dynamics, volume...
I've been pretty happy with my recently purchased Sony studio monitor headphones. They're the "cushioned to block out people screaming next to you"-type-headphones. The kind you probably don't recall from the 1970s.
The only complaints I have are:
1.when there's "silence" I often hear a faint "screeching" sound (harddrive?...fans?...dunno)
2. The volume is difficult to adjust because "normal" is at just about the lowest output my PC gives and slighlty louder than "normal" hurts my ears. There's no "volume control" on the headphone wire as on many Labtec headphones.
BTW, I'm getting this sound from an ASUS A7N8X Deluxe...onboard audio...supposed to be a good audio processor, but must be badly implemented somehow. Surprising that ASUS would badly implement anything, but it sounds like I'm expecting too much from a computer. I need an amp with an SPDIF connector between my headphones and computer, no?
I used to *really* love the THX theatres that had just been built, when THX was a new thing in the audio world. They sounded absolutely amazing.
Now, they sound overcranked and rattle-ridden, and the high-freq. earpiercing harmonics are almost overpowered by the blurred tone-less bass.
You show me a "100", "1000", or any "THX" certified pair of cheap little plastic speakers, and I'll show you what burning coils smell like when I pump them with my teensie-weensie 30 watt tube amp! (or even my 8-watt one!)
Feh. Audio *indeed*. I'm in the wrong business... I need to start selling misinformation to fools.
mindslip
...certainly an audiophile would look to more expensive components and speakers however if these were all there were all would be enjoyable.
The primary purpose for purchasing these is for watching DVDs with a computer fitted with the Real Magic Hollywood+ mpeg decoder or listening to music or webcasts. The television sound is not bad through these either.
My only complaints would be for the wimpy binding posts on the back of the satelite speakers. I purchased heavier speaker wire for these (14 gauge) and also purchased bannana plugs to make the connections partly because these will make a better connection but mostly because the binding posts would not take the wire itself. Wall mounting the speakers is out of the question with the banana plus also.
Also to say they have four inputs may be inaccurate - yes, there are the coaxial and optical inputs for digital however the remaining two connectors are referred to as "direct" and once cancels the other out.
But if you are considering these you will not be unhapppy with them.
When I was shopping for a set of powerful speakers, I had it narrowed down to the Altec 641 or the Logitech 400W system. The Klipsch were not technically out of my price range - I could afford them - but I did not want to spend that much if I could avoid it. I checked out the user reviews; my long personal experience with Altec already had me leaning in that direction, but the Logitech sure looked nice on the spec sheet. I'm glad I checked the reviews first.
... is very important to me ..."
The user reviews were a shock. A disturbing number of people reported "exploding amplifiers" in the subwoofers of the Logitech systems. To be fair, they also said that they had turned them up to 90% volume (!), but Altec buyers didn't report any such problems.
Obviously I chose the Altec. I've never even had it up to 40%, but the bass carries throughout the house (so even my remote speakers sound better). I have it tied in to my PC as well as my home theater.
Most people don't need this much power. Most people don't require as many speakers as I have, either - I have two 4.1 systems connected to my TV/VCR setup, plus another 5.1 that kicks in when the DVD player is in use (adding to the 4.1's). All this in one 12' x 14' room, with the subwoofers and satellites strategically located so that everywhere I go in the room, I have stereo sound.
Plus, I have a set of wireless stereo speakers tied in to the front channel - so I don't miss a trick when I have to walk to the front of the house. You know, grab a beer, answer the door when the pizza guy arrives, wash the dishes, etc.
Sound is sensation is life.
They aren't much help for surround sound, but for normal TV, radio or CD audio they work perfectly.
"Sound
"A generation which ignores history has no past and no future." -- Robert Heinlein
The 400W models used to ... rather spectacularly, as I recall ...
"A generation which ignores history has no past and no future." -- Robert Heinlein
Bring back the Z-80!
All this big deal about white collar crime -- what's WRONG with white collar
crime? Who enjoys his job today? You? Me? Anybody? The only satisfying
part of any job is coffee break, lunch hour and quitting time. Years ago
there was at least the hope of improvement -- eventual promotion -- more
important jobs to come. Once you can be sold the myth that you may make
president of the company you'll hardly ever steal stamps. But nobody
believes he's going to be president anymore. The more people change jobs
the more they realize that there is a direct connection between working for
a living and total stupefying boredom. So why NOT take revenge? You're not
going to find ME knocking a guy because he pads an expense account and his
home stationery carries the company emblem. Take away crime from the white
collar worker and you will rob him of his last vestige of job interest.
-- J. Feiffer
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