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Swiss Tax Office distributes Mozilla and OpenOffice
David Gerard writes "From Heise (via Mozillazine: taxpayers in the Swiss canton of Geneva are being given a CD with a French version of Mozilla 1.2.1, OpenOffice.org 1.0.1 and tax program GEtax 2002. Rough English translation from Google." This strikes me as a really cool idea. I already get the cards that tell me to file online rather than fill out paper forms, but it still forces me to buy tax software every year.
The US Post Office schills for Microsoft...
This is a step that should be made be more governments, to ease the tax process for people who don't want to spend money for a tax program. Jeez, we have to pay the taxes, why do we have to pay for a tax program to pay the taxes??
I'd rather see governments switching to open source and either using the saved dollars for something ie: education/heathcare, or just give us some tax rebates.. Neat idea though. P.s. fp?
Windoze, Linux, Mac?
Ciryon
I did this in my company months ago...
... CowboyNeal is posting... ... is this right? I thought he was only a mythical figure featured prominently in Slashdot polls since the beginning of Slashtime?
Mommy, I'm scared...
It's nice to see that the tax program is also available for Linux and Mac OS 9 + X= 18
http://www.getax.ch/dyn/ledossier.php?id_rubrique
My spirit takes a journey through my mind...
The headline of the babelfish translation: " OpenOffice and Mozilla distributes Swiss revenue office " They forgot to say In Soviet Russia.
I am not sure what platforms the actual GETax program is available on and whether it is open source - IMO as offical software given out by the government it should be.
Mozilla and OpenOffice are, of course, really great additions, and should bring the wonders of good open source software to the public there (and a standards-compliant browser that actualy works and doesn't live in the Dark Ages)(although I guess people there are probably already quite open-minded).
If only the governments of other MEDC's would start doing this kind of thing (and werent in collusion with M$). It would be a start if they could start storing personal data we entrust them with in non-prorietary formats on open-source OS's - doing anything else seems crazy in a democratic society.
Kudos to the Swiss (who tend to be a more sensible European government). Also
Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley
[This post is in the public domain (copyright-free) unless otherwise stated]
Mozilla's introscreen needs to be changed. As it is, it is grossly inappropriate for use by the masses. I don't think the Mozilla crowd have any idea how socially inappropriate it is to be seen using a browser with the flame-throwing dinosaur in the introscreen. This is not a troll, it is just basic marketing sense.
Since when was the IRS responsible to the software companies to keep their revenue stream going, rather than providing a useful tax service to the public?
While would be great, i dont see it happening, as we have 50 state tax rules and sets of forms to deal with. Then you have the thousands of pages of tax code for federal..
Its why places like HR-BLock can make so much $$ on what *should* be a simple process.
If they just would goto a "flat tax" the entire problem would go away.. Thousands of hours, millions of dollars wasted....
---- Booth was a patriot ----
All you have to do is be a poor college student like myself, there are a myriad of free resources for filing for my meager return online.
and more surely with large Dikumenten.
Word is scrap iron
There is a list of places to file online for free (or a small fee) right from the IRS website.
http://www.irs.gov/app/freeFile/jsp/index.jsp?
I, for one, am trying out Free Tax USA.
that if the government were to provide a free tax program, that it would find your best result or offer tax saving features?
Chances are, the software would include features advantageous to the irs only. It would include things you *don't* want the irs to necessarily know.
What do OpenOffice and Mozilla with the tax declaration have to create?
Connection = zero.
One clarifies me on...
"I already get the cards that tell me to file online rather than fill out paper forms, but it still forces me to buy tax software every year."
.000000000024% of their revenue to produce a free tax package. How would poor Intuit survive then?
Can you believe that there are countries in which your God-given right to a market is not vigorously protected by the government!? To think that these Swiss goons feel like they can just give away tax software.... I hope the IRS doesn't get any crazy ideas about spending
a much simplified tax system. Create a flat tax with a high minimum. (you make less than the minimum, and you pay no taxes).
Eliminate all the deductibles.
Everyone's tax form would look like:
Your total income for 2002:
x
subtract the minimum of y:
x-y = z
multiply z times the tax rate:
z * rate = total tax
Tax you paid:
paid
find the difference:
total paid - total tax = your refund
OR
total tax - total paid = tax owed
Much simpler.
This really doesn't change the fact that if we just had a more simple and less convoluted tax system, we wouldn't even need to worry about complex deductions, brackets, taxable income, credits, etc.
I'm not advocating a flat tax. Hell, I'm not even sure what I'm advocating, but if we had a more simple tax code, we wouldn't need to spend that money on tax software every year.
This brings up an interesting point though. Would the makers of Turbo Tax make a move like the RIAA and try to sue the government if we moved to a simple tax system people didn't need software for?
After all, it would technically be destroying their business model.
Here in Brazil, we get the program for free from our "IRS" -- but it's Windows-only (though there have been reports that it works with Wine).
But then again, this is not America. Well, we are in America but this is not America.
Very simple. Just like using the foot-in-the-mouth units system.
PS: Please kindly observe that if you think I'm anti-U.S. you are simply being stupid -- I am not. Thank you.
I should tell me sister. She's currently unemployed. Wonder if that counts, since she made more than 30k last year, but so far made 0 this year.
Tobacco farmers
Telemarketers
The RIAA
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
it is german for drawing software. open office draw then.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
There goes evenly all more slowly. * g *
Explanation: In Germany Swiss the call have to be slow. Why do not know I also, probably because her from our view more slowly Speeches. Surely also "Emil" has to this (wrong) picture in addition contributed. The acted and also always talked in the slow motion speed.)
If many taxpayers are installing this software to file their taxes, then there definitely will be a few where the software doesn't install cleanly or well. Something used for this purpose definitely has to be "turnkey." I really hope that they have the bugs worked out of this process. They must have a lot of confidence in the software. I just know how many times I have been frustrated by relatively simple software that must be used to file a government form.
In Spain for example you can do it via WEB or with an old program called "Padre" or the new "Renta 2001"
IMHO this misses the fundamental problem; tax codes in most countries are just too damn complex.
In the United States they've managed to create such a complicated system that with few exceptions, the services of a professional - or the use of sophistcated and costly software - are necessary. This is ridiculous!
My situation is a little bit more complicated than most since I'm American and live in London. Last year my US tax return alone was 88 pages! Unbelievable.
And yeah, I have to use an accounting firm to complete my return even though I've got a Masters in Finance. The cost of an honest mistake discovered years later would be far too high for me to risk it.
So I get to pay KMPG about two thousand Pounds to complete my US and UK tax returns. Great.
A message from our sponsor
This way many people who are often too "lazy" to download new software and stick with their included Internet Explorer can try a different browser.
Same with OpenOffice: I know a lot of people who are CONVINCED that there is no alternative to MS Office... I'm sure many will give it a try-- in the end it means you can save a lot of money...
ps: Hey! I posted this story yesterday, but it was rejected... I know, don't complain...
I don't need a signature.
I just checked the Localization page on the Mozilla website again, and I still can't find the French translation of version 1.2.1.
Anyone have a pointer?
I would love to see the laws released as a set of algorythms or even pseudo code.
Of course, the flaw with this is that if the software has bugs in it, the user is entirely screwed.
At least with turbotax, or any of the others, the software authors are at least somewhat responsible to make sure that everything comes out right. Not that it always does, but they are responsible for it.
I would still much rather see a simpler tax system in place.
You could also point out that Genf is Geneva
Yayyy !!!!!
More EUian Communism at work !!!
The Swiss canton of Berne has been distributing the TaxMe Software for two years now. It's a Java app, so it runs on any OS. You fill in the tax data, it creates PDF tax forms for you to print out and sign. Or you can even do it all online through a web interface, using the ID/password printed on the physical forms everyone gets by mail. Very slick.
I didn't know that. Thanks. Too bad I can't go back and edit my comment. :P
I habs me times the package downloaded and installs:
My first seconds thereby:
- obligation registration!
- selection box overlaid into handcLg1-ridden from above to to the center that
Screen, one gets it not away.
- the statement of size of the indications is by "arrow downward" - Button
half covers.
- a serial letter assistant gibts not
Nee, nee this grottige of things can keep you.
But I don't have j$10000 to pay for the taxes on the j$30000 I made last year.
> man filter
...
> cat news_report | chef | less
Sveess refunooe-a oofffeece-a deestribootes OopunOfffeece-a und Muzeella. Bork! Bork! Bork!
It takes a guru...
Keep your packets off my GNU/Girlfriend!
So just to get our story straight here, AOL sending out lots of unwanted CDs is bad, but the Swiss government sending out lots of CDs is good?
Actually, given the Swiss government's rabid stance on recycling (at one point the genevois were smuggling bags of garbage into France to avoid paying garbage tax), this whole project could be considered to be a form of stealth tax, ie they send you the CD, and if you don't dispose of it properly they fine you...
Virtually serving coffee
but it still forces me to buy tax software every year.
Buy software? Here in Brazil, we can download the software from Receita Federal for free, and send them the information online, or go to the nearest Banco do Brasil and give them a floppy disk (for those that don't want / can't send online)
To draw = zeichnen.
I guess 'zeichen' is a typo.
Isnt it Mozilla 1.21 that has the infamous DHTML bug that stopped 99% of web javascript working due to a broken document.write, can anyone clarify this ?
otherwise if this is the version i can see the cd getting readied for the trash as we speak, which isnt exactly going to fill people with confidence for OS software when its distributed broken and in need of a "patch", sounds more like another browser already.
In the Netherlands we get the free program for your taxes from the Taxoffice since at least 1995, the first year I did my taxes electronically. You can choose to print it out, send the disk back or sent a signed file back. Too bad the recent versions are Winonly.
...well you'd expect them to know about per-seat licensing bargains I guess...
This didn't stop the United States Postal Service from running advertisements where they dissed UPS and FedEx for being way more expensive than their own services. ("Fly like an eagle...")
..which offered a free stripped down online-version of a taxtool already last year. the full featured version is available for like 15$ on cd.
...Taco 'n' Hemos schill for Apple. What's the diff?
2) You, as a consumer, pay the company of your choice to develop tax software in the way that best fits your needs. In this scenario, multiple companies compete for your money, which keeps them efficient and keeps their products evolving to meet the needs of the most people possible.
Or, just maybe... 3) A bunch of OSSers get together and write tax software and give it away for free. Wouldn't that be grand? Unfortunately, AIUI, tax software has to be certified, and certification costs money, so I'm not sure this will ever happen. (That is kinda stupid... it's the output that should be certified by the taxpayer (sign here...), not the software that should be certified by the government.)
Build stuff. Stuff that walks, stuff that rolls, whatever.
The garbage tax has never been applied to the Canton de Geneve nor in the Canton de Vaud.
Hopefully, the swedish government will start switching soon as well. :-) There's been quite a bit of talk about it lately, so at least they seem to give it some serious consideration.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Along the same lines, we can easily infer that if the US government were to propose actually dropping the personal income tax, that it would be opposed (and I guarantee you it would) by the same people on the grounds that it would cause so many people to lose their jobs.
Similarly we can expect the "War on Drugs" to continue forever not because there is a "Serious Drug Problem" but because it would cause all those prison guards and cops and lawyers and so on to lose their jobs.
no, it isn't. you don't say "to draw software", do you?
Zeichensoftware is correct, just as Zeichentrickfilm (animated film, cartoon)
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
swizerland isn't in the eu.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
In the UK the self assessment tax form can now be completed entirely on-line (not sure how long this has been the case - last year was the first time I needed to complete one).
It will even calculate the tax and national insurance constributions owed.
Can't say I like paying tax (or more specifically, the way it is spent), but they certainly made it pretty straightforward.
As a corollary to the above however, I believe you have zero chance of using any of the british governments online services if you don't have Microsoft's Java VM - which is a bit of a bugger if you use Linux, or it recent enlightenments, have XP SP1a!
In soviet russia, your taxes do you!
I keep seeing a bunch of Microsoft banner ads on Slashdot and other Linux-friendly sites.
Can we support our favorite Linux site with Microsoft $$$ by clicking( back/forth ) on those banners?
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
This is the link to the offical site of Departement des Fiances of the State of Geneva.
You have no right to make a profit at providing tax services. If the government decides that it would save tax payers more money to contract out to write its own software for free public use then that's it's obligation, not privelege. Taxes cost us money. Paying $50-$100 for tax software adds to that. If the IRS decides that it'd be easier and cheaper for the public to get free software from the government to streamline taxes then so be it.
Click here or a puppy gets stomped!
Exemptions are like Microsoft Office: most people will never use 95% of their features but everyone has their own individual 5%.
I think it was Dick Armey's proposal from a few years ago that income under $30k not be taxed, and everything over that be taxed at 10% (or maybe 15%?)
I really don't see how 'the rich' (great label there) would pay *less* than they do now. Not much to hide behind when it's basic math that a 10 year old should be able to do.
You made $200,000 last year? Pay $17,000 (10% of $170,000).
Why is that so hard or evil?
'The poor' wouldn't pay anything. Someone earning $50,000 would pay $2,000. What's wrong with that?
Also, what is seldom pointed out is that *activity* is taxed. Money sitting under my bed isn't taxed, but when I transfer it to someone else (purchase/gift) that activity is taxed. More money in people's pockets means they will engage in more activity, which is what is taxed.
creation science book
I don't think there's a Windows version currently, but if they're distributing OO and Mozilla, giving people a copy of GnuCash as well wouldn't hurt. Maybe it's not 'internationalized'?
creation science book
This has bugged me for the last few years.
It's in the government's INTEREST to have people file electronically. I cringe when I imagine the number of people working in Ottawa (I'm Canadian) just doing DATA ENTRY, never mind auditing/reviewing of our returns. I have no idea how many people or how long it takes or how many tons of mail are involved, but I'm pretty sure it's better for _everyone_ (well, maybe not the aforementioned data entry people) to provide free electronic filing software.
Nothing like wasting tax money to unnecessarily process tax returns. =)
I really miss Amsterdam Vallon.
Mod parent +5, sleep aid. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
http://www.turbotax.com/freedom go there and do your taxes online and for free. It's for us poor people that don't really have the ability to buy three or four sports cars a year and are trying to get an education, but in the process are driving ourselves deeper and deeper into debt.
FOURTH YEAR IN A ROW!!! TurboTax offers electronic filing, combined with direct deposit, means I got my refund in 3 days! Eat that H&R.
Ignore the "p2p is theft" trolls, they're just uninformed
The Australian Tax Office (and The UK Inland Revenue, I think) were recently criticised for security issues in their free tax software. This despite the fact that you have to jump through several hoops to download it, and provide lots of ID verification before you can upload your return.
Does anyone know what this Swiss one does to protect people's personal details?
If my call is important, why am I talking to a recording?
So, why doesn't the IRS provide a simple web interface for filing taxes? It's bullshit that they want us to pay someone else to file our returns electronically or they want us to buy a software package so that we can do it ourselves. There's an obvious place for H&R Block and Turbo Tax: consultation and attempting to minimize taxes paid. But, if I do my taxes myself (which I do), I should be able to punch the numbers into a web form and file it with the IRS if I so choose. F-em. I'm going to keep filing paper!
They send out MILLIONS of CD's already.. I haven't looked at the contents lately, but I assume there would be some free space. Stick a few cool Free Software packages on there as a nice little "fuck you" to microsoft, and also a benefit to the citizenry, to offset the annoyance of the spam-CD.
The government spends millions if not billions of dollars processing all the tax returns each year. Not only do all tax returns have to be processed, but many of them have to be audited.
I've heard many cases of tax software saying that a person owes less to the government than they actually do. So the government evaluates this return from the tax software, and either runs it through its own program to check it or hires an expensive accountant to check it. Then the goverment figures out that the return is in error, and has to contact the tax payer to reconcile the difference.
Most problems of this sort would be totally avoided if the government published a program that represented the corpus of knowledge of the tax system. Hell, they practically do it already. If you look at tax forms, it looks like program pseudo-code.
The only reason makers of tax software get so much money is that gathering all this information is a big pain in the ass for the average citizen. It would be a pain in the ass for the government to do it as well, but they already do it.
So really, the private tax software packages are just duplications of the government's work.
swizerland isn't in the eu.
Yes, it's because we like being rich too much. Plus, all 700 years of Swiss foreign policy basically has been variations on the theme "get your foreign fingers the f--k out of our most respectable business".
I am in favor of adhesion to the EU, but the bigwigs, Germany and France, aren't really providing inspired leadership right now.
That would require our representatives to be held accountable for their actions in office. We all know that will NEVER happen.
It would also require the administration to be fiscally responsible, and the budget to be balanced. This will never happen in my lifetime. Sad
It is sad we have more accountability in other areas (business). But not in the area that affects out lives the most, we do not have any. The two houses and state government. (The president is always under the microscope, as GWB should be!)
Nothing new, but I thought slashdot readers should know that. The first public beta should be out any day now, and the release will probably come in a few months.
And why not give me a computer too.
Years ago, Newt Gingrich had this project of giving computers to poor people, to somehow kickstart them.
__
Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
GW Bu
Maybe you missed the subject on the post I was replying to, particularly the part about the IRS. Here in the US, that's the tax collection authority.
AFAIK nobody in our government is distributing Mozilla or OpenOffice, nor is Microsoft developing tax software, much less monopolizing that market.
The conversation turned, try to keep up.
Build stuff. Stuff that walks, stuff that rolls, whatever.
for some years. It works with mozilla too...
We do all our banking over the net as well as taxes.
Eh, that's it, I guess. No 300 million dollar unveiling event for this
kernel, I'm afraid, but you're still supposed to think of this as the
"happening of the century" (at least until the next kernel comes along).
-- Linus, in the announcement for 1.3.27
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