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Venezuela Falling Behind
Christopher Frank writes "Seems Venezuela's lack of power has finally caught up with them! MSNBC has the story: 'If you thought Venezuela's political crisis seemed to be dragging for an impossibly long time -- you were right. In a bizarre mass-malfunction, Venezuela's clocks are ticking too slowly due to a power shortage weakening the electric current nationwide. By the end of each day, the sluggish time pieces still have another 150 seconds to tick before they catch up to midnight.'"
Oh fantasy free me! And nothing can ever be the same. With the vis of a mind flip. You're into the time slip!!!! LETS DO THE TIME WARP AGAIN! -Rocky Horror Picture Show
Well at least you can technically put off getting older.
Can someone please point me to a good synopsis of the last year in the country?
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -- Carl Sagan
It's not the lower power / current / whatever. It's the lower frequencies on the AC lines.
And besides any quartz clock won't be affected anyway. The ones that will suffer is those bedside alarm clocks you plug in - those red / green ones that are oh-so-common in the US.
Any idea why there are 0 of them in Japan? Japan runs on 50Hz east side and 60Hz west side, which would make clocks like that completely fall over itself. (something about buying geneator equipment from siemens (europe) for the east side and from US for the west-side - and stuck)
Interesting, but I don't think it's really that much of a "news." should at least up the "it's funny" icon
My life in the land of the rising sun.
EVERYTHING THAT HAS to do with time-keeping has slowed down.
So, basically what we're dealing with here is an entire country suffering from a sort of prolonged "Time Out" syndrome like Zack would sometimes cause on Saved By The Bell. Clearly, the problem will not be solved unless the Venezuelan government actively pursues an ingenious solution by Screech Powers.
barzelay.net
1. oil industry collapses
2. economy plummets
3. the proletariat gets pissed
4. ???
5. VIOLENT COUP D'ETAT !
Venuzualian electric frequency is reduced . We all know electricity produces magnetic fields. Since slashdot servers exist symetrically on the other half of earths hemisphere, ocassionally there is jerk in time causing Reposts on Slashdot servers.
Siggy Say, Siggy Do
A quick lookie-loo over at The Guardian's website (among others) reveals the involvement of the US Government a recent coup attempt against Venezualian leader Hugo Chavez. Clearly a return to the old US foreign policy in South America of replacing democratically elected leaders with US-friendly dictators.
4 ,00.html
Read about it here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/oil/story/0,11319,71450
I suppose this means that the clocks in the White House are outputing power as they spin backwards? Now that's an alternative energy source even Bush and Cheney can support.
That my friends, is an understatement.
How do I know this? Well, I am from there ;o)
Excuse me, I must go a have a nap before I finish this post...
will work for Karma
finland leads the world in overclocking
;-P
and venezuela leads the world in underclocking?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Time may be a great healer, but it's also a lousy beautician.
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Time is just nature's way to keep everything from happening at once.
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Three o'clock is always too late or too early for anything you want to do.
- Jean-Paul Sartre
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Dost thou love life? Then do not squander time; for that's the stuff life is made of.
- Benjamin Franklin
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Time is the coin of your life. It is the only coin you have, and only you can determine how it will be spent. Be careful lest you let other people spend it for you.
- Carl Sandburg
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If you don't have time to do it right you must have time to do it over.
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Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils.
- Hector Berlioz
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It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take Hofstadter's Law into account.
- Hofstadter's Law
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A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure.
- Segal's Law
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Time as he grows old teaches all things.
- Aeschylus
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Time crumbles things; everything grows old under the power of Time and is forgotten through the lapse of Time.
- Aristotle
There are many dozen contries with much more severe problems than Venezuela. Wonder why only Venezuela makes constantly in the headlines?
Yup, that's right, Venezuela has oil and others don't. Thus our wonderful "independent" media doesn't care about other problems.
This is how we'll solve the Twin Paradox!
The town of Highland Illinois had a company that made motors that shipped all over the world. At night the local power company would slow down the frequency from 60HZ to 50 HZ for testing of the motors and then catch up all the clocks in town by running at 62HZ for 5 times as long as the elapsed test sequence. This whole process had to be completed before people had to get up for work in the morning.
This was about 20 yesrs ago so things have probably changed by now.
And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make
echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_rfc1337
Error encountered in IAWebSig.clsSig.Create: Last Procedure: sPrc_Ins_tblSig
Due to magnetic irregularities in regard to the south magnetic pole water swirls counter clock wise. Since there are negative magnetic waves there the United Nations Intelligence Taskforce (Venezuela) manages the atomic clocks that synchronize the world. If the atomic clocks go out of sync then this could spell disaster on a international scale. Some one Who knows about the dangers of Time should be dispached at once. Lord knows what could happen if some evil learns to Master time.
Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
--sex
Very popular slashdot journal for adul
What keeps America or Britain or Germany or Russia or China ticking?
Not in the literal "atomic clock" sense. How is it that America's government is still functioning when a majority of its "democratic" populace didn't vote for its leader? Judging by the past few weeks/years of protests, the other countries don't really care for their "elected" leaders either.
How can so few people hold so much sway over so many people?
Mayber I should take more PoliSci courses (just a poor CompSci major typing here!), but that the human populace can function at all, given the variety of personalities and prejudices, I consider a miracle.
In fact, I think that Venezuala is one country that is acting the way things are supposed to go!
obviously no deficiencies vs. no obvious deficiencies
An air traffic controller casually told Reuters that his office corrected its clocks every few days or months, without incident so far. :)
Does this scare anyone else?
So the moral of the story... don't fly to Venezuela
What do you get when you cross Kreskin the magician with an insurance-peddling duck? "Hypno Duck" -- The latest AFLAC commercial. This spot received the highest consumer recall score for television ads in the bi-weekly Intermedia consumer survey. Our congratulations to Kreskin, star of AFLAC. Many will recall the Amazing Kreskin as being the omniscient seer who correctly predicted the death of *BSD.
First post...FUCK, I'm an hour late. Goddamn clock.
Ever notice that your alarm clock, microwave, stereo clock, etc. is never very accurate? The voltage and frequency do vary depending upon the load on the grid, the generation facility, usage in your home, and so on. Of course, major variations will screw things up and US voltage is pretty consistent, but it's the little variations that throw your bedside alarm off a few minutes every so often. Though slightly off topic, If you want accuracy, get a good (36,000+ vph) mechanical wristwatch, or even better, one of the old Bulova Accutrons. If you're not familiar with the Accutron, run a Google or eBay search for them; they were a HUGE hit with the geek crowd back in the Sixties. They were used as timing devices in the Apollo program and in satellites, too.
IAAL
I completely understand the reason why those clocks which use the 60hz (or 50Hz) AC as a timebase go slower. It only makes sense..
But could someone please explain to me how reducing the frequency of an electrical grid provides more power to the grid, assuming nothing else has changed? The article says they reduced the frequency to ensure they had enough power.... This kinda stuck my brain in an "Error does not compute" endless loop...
In the US at least, the powerline frequency is actually a function of how fast the generators are turning in the power plants - specifically 3600 RPM which comes out to 60 Revs/Sec or 60 Hz. The way I understand the article is that spinning the generators SLOWER results in more power? For some reason this seems counter-intuitive to me. What am I missing?
The link below discusses not just the Iraq war, but the how oil is tied to the world economies at a very low level and how Venezuela is in some sense at the heart of the matter with their use of oil as a fiat currency in lieu of the US dollar among their latin american trading partners. http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/RRiraqWar.html
Although completely suppressed by the U.S. media and government, the answer to the Iraq enigma is simple yet shocking -- it is an oil currency war. The real reason for this upcoming war is this administration's goal of preventing further Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) momentum towards the euro as an oil transaction currency standard. However, in order to pre-empt OPEC, they need to gain geo-strategic control of Iraq along with its 2nd largest proven oil reserves. This essay will discuss the macroeconomics of the `petro-dollar' and the unpublicized but real threat to U.S. economic hegemony from the euro as an alternative oil transaction currency. The author advocates reform of the global monetary system including a dollar/euro currency 'trading band' with reserve status parity, and a dual OPEC oil transaction standard. These reforms could potentially reduce future oil currency warfare.
My DVD and Game Collection Tracking L
Those on strike are the management level people who run the oil industry, not the workers. In America isn't that called a lockout? It looks like the same thing is going on in Nigeria right now.
As for why the US says little; it seems that they have had some interest in giving Chavez problems. Hasn't Chavez been elected now twice in two or three years? Is there a more favorable to US interests, less democratic option we should be seeing?
No, the US is much more interested in promoting Democracy than securing oil interests.
Slower speed = uses less fuel = more power because they don't need to shut the generators off everyday (i'm guessing). Then again there may be some other reason for this, I'm no AC genius by any means.
Oh, and no pun intended. I mean, we all know the A.C.s know everything.
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
"'I wake with the sun,' said Rene Osurna, who works at a shipping company. 'And if you're two minutes late to the office, and everybody else is too, there's no problem.'"
You work at a SHIPPING COMPANY and you don't care what time it is?! Are you on powerful anti-depressants? If you're two minutes late to the plane with your packages, there IS a problem.
Yes, a large majority of the voting population voted for him the the election but many of those now hate him. Chavez is an inept idealist that only knows to destroy the nation and is abusing the democracy in the country. Not that the US respects democracy, George Bush cheered at the coup attempt last year which would have been rather undermocratic.
Even so, Chavez gives support to the Colombian guerillas which have no political aim anymore except to create anarchy so that the drug trade can thrive.
Chavez must go, but the opposition should have waited until the referendum in August because they have made the situation much worse.
Julius
Hey beavis. It's like funny and stuff when countries have wierd power problems and stuff after american corporate interests try and cripple their economies by instituting a lock-out, calling it a strike, and trying to overthrow their democratically elected president.
Don't those stoopid assmunches know that they are supposed to have the business candidate swept into office by keeping the ethnic minorities out of the polls?
If you thought Venezuela's political crisis...
Did anyone actually think about Venezuela's political crisis? Does anyone actually know where to find Venezuela on a map?
Now even the clocks are on strike! Chavez, you know it's time to step down when time itself refuses to advance while you're in power.
The book "Legends of Caltech" tells of students who played a trick on their math professor as follows: The Professor (Tom Apostol) gave very carefully scripted lectures designed to end precisely in the time allotted. For a few weeks, each day students would go in the lecture hall before class and 1) Change the clock to run 10-15% faster. 2) Set the clock backwards a few minutes so it caught up at the beginning of lecture. When the Professor (who didn't wear a watch) noticed himself seemingly falling farther and farther behind, he tended to get more and more incoherent as he tried to finish the lecture which he "knew" he had enough time to do.
These are extremely reliable clocks. I still have one. Mine was made in Ashland, Massachusetts (USA) in 1941. Its still running. Keeps good time. I did have to change the line cord though.. the old one's insulation got so brittle that just bending the wire would shatter the plastic. They did not make decent flexible insulation in those days.. but the motor itself is still fine.. its alternating layers of winding and wax paper. No brushes.
Internally, they are shaded-pole induction motors, which use the reversals of the incoming power to generate a rotating magnetic field, upon which a magnetized rotor follows in exact sync. If the power goes off for an hour, the clock loses an hour. It restarts when it sees power again. Its not the most efficient clock though, it uses about 10 watts of power.
About every appliance clock that had hands or those little digital "flappers" used this design.
For what its worth, a lot of the old record players used a larger version of the same motor that drives the clocks - and it was used as a cheap means of spinning the turntable at 33, 45, or 78 RPM by means of selecting a different radius on the mechanical friction-drive transmission that drove the turntable from the motor spindle. It was a simple thing - basically a little moveable rubber-rimmed wheel that rested on one of three different radius areas of the motor spindle, then drove the inside of the turntable from that. Very inexpensive, yet robust. ( but a bit noisy - a little drive noise always was present, and we used "wow" and "flutter" to describe the low and high speed mechanical aberrations of turntable rotation).
Probably more than you wanted to know about these things.. but I thought I would toss it in for anyone interested.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
We're slowly grinding to a halt out here, except it's our cars, businesses, etc. I feel for them and think it would be in our best interest if we got down there and patted some ppl on the back and blew in their ears.
--Thei Antispamist A useless endevor that will cer
The Country of Venezuela is now the property of the United States government.
The nation and it's inhabitants were surrendered to U.S. law enforcement pursuant to a federal prosecution and felony plea agreement for conspiracy to violate criminal copyright laws.
Venezuela pled guilty to conspiring to violate federal copyright laws by illegally "modifying" the digital time-keeping mechanism of clocks. Under the DMCA (Digital Millenium Clockwork Act), the modification of clocks to display an unauthorized time is illegal, no matter what American or non-American police state you live in. "If people were allowed to make their clocks show whatever time they wanted, it might allow them to read a time that the manufacturer never intended, like 14 o'clock" declared Ayatollah Ashcroft in a press conference today. "Not only is that illegal, it's wrong, and naughty. Next thing you know they'll be bathing in the nude or teaching women to read."
As a result, the country of Venezuela is now the property of the United States government. The country and it's people will immediately be put to their rightly intended use: the production of inferior quality candles to be used in Catholic rituals.
Conventional sense tells me that if you lower the frequency, you will also lower the inductive reactance, which will increase current, which will increase load power, which will make things go from bad to worse fast.
Drop the frequency down too low and you may start to saturate the magnetic cores of the main power distribution transformers.. That will do [really bad] wonders for a system already struggling to supply enough power. Running a "starved" power grid is quit hard to do - as once you start dropping voltage, motors, especially large synchronous ones, start drawing more current as the phase difference between shaft position and power source increases, with the resulting increase in current demand causing the voltage to drop even further. The inevitable result is the motor overheats with possible and sometimes likely destruction of the motor.
When we had this problem of insufficient power in Southern California, we handled it through three remedies..
1) We paid whatever the "generators" asked. The state is now billions of dollars in debt. I can't quote exact prices per KWH, maybe others know this, but it was outrageous. This did not help the finances of California one bit.
2) We had rolling blackouts. Certain service areas ( sans critical facilities ) were placed on a list, and as power dropped below the ability of the grid to support it, we dropped areas for a period of one hour. At which time, either demand had diminished, or another area would have to be blacked out.
3) An intensive campaign to get people to conserve... lots of ads, and incentives for people to put remote load controlling boxes on air conditioners, so that the power company could shut them down remotely when a crunch was going on.
The "brown-outs" are very destructive. And these days, its even worse, as electronic stuff is apt to do all sorts of unpredictable things when it is not supplied with the proper voltage. So, we did not have any "brown outs" this go around. Just as good as far as I am concerned... I would rather be without power for an hour at the time, and when I get power, its the correct power. Otherwise I get to replace the refrigerator compressor.
The main Pacific Intertie the West Coast runs on means all the generators and loads are running together. If that puppy goes down, I understand its quite tricky to get it back up.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
Check out Narco News. It has articles that are about the whole region.
Just by going on the information in the article, my guess is that one side-effect of slowing down the generators is a lower frequency for the current. Why would they slow down the generators? Because slower generators use less water.
Presumably they calculated the amount of water feeding the river and made sure that the generators used no more water than would cause the river to get too low, thus preventing the generators from stopping, thus avoiding blackouts.
It's been a while since I've studied anything electrocal. However, your power lines have non-negligible inductance. Lower frequence means less voltage drop across the inductor. You also get some hysteresis losses (non-ideal inductors) which will be reduced by lowering the frequency. The first factor doesn't actually effect energy efficiency, just your ability to consume electriciy (voltage just doesn't dip as much when you can't keep up). The second factor directly reduces the percentage fo power lost during distribution. Back in HS, they told us that power was brought into the minneapolis area from power plants in the Dakotas via DC transmission lines to minimize losses. DC is better for distribution, but it's much cheaper to build an efficient and powerful AC motor vs. and equivalent DC motor. The same goes for generators.
Copyright Violation:"theft, piracy"::Anti-Trust Violation:"thermonuclear price terrorism"<-Overly dramatic language.
...is over here.
there was an attempted coup, in which the US was allegedly involved.
whether involved or not, Bush was pretty delighted at the replacement of the elected president with a dictator. and there were at least talks between the white house and the coup plotters in which the white house obviously didn't do a very good job in discouraging the coup plotters.
for a collection of references to articles giving a good background on this issue, see my website (comments, additional info much appreciated).
also provided on the same page is a history of similar coups over the past 50 years in Latin America which occurred to governments in response to actions similar to what Chavez has been doing (land reform, nationalisation of oil/industries). basically anything to alleviate the poor majority. it is this historical pattern which gives the biggest indication that the CIA may be behind it. however, the difference in venezuela is that the CIA supposedly stopped performing these coups.
perhaps the failure of the coup indicates how much harder it is for them to pull them off today (they have to be much more careful to leave no fingerprints, as the public is much less likely to support them without the cold war excuse).
Another explanation is that the article isn't quite correct. I would expect that the extra load causes the generators to slow down, and the lower frequency is an involuntary consequence of demand outstripping supply, rather than a decision by the producers.
You say something about a communist leasder...
and make it like he is at fault... maybe it is, but I heard that there were international banks that are screwing the place over.
I remember hearing about people not being able to withdraw their savings.
Maybe it is the leader's fault, maybe it's the banks that tricked the leader, maybe the leader resisted but was beaten down by americans.
Or I could be thinking about the wrong conflict...
I was thinking of one in South America though...
Please use [ informative / summarizing ] SUBJECT LINES
Flame me here
What about power regulation circuits? What about. . . I don't know. I guess it makes sense in a variety of . . , but that's a whole can of conspiracy even I am hesitant to open this early in the A.M.
Well. .
Maybe just a peek. But, bewarned; this is unfinished thinking. Not yet certified by the Lad's Fantasti-Corp proving ground and safety testing facilities. .
So. . , time is moving faster these days. Have you noticed? Sure you have. But, of course, if you're like the average bear, you've chalked it up to shifting perceptions resulting from growing older and such. When you were a kid, those long summer days back in the 70's just seemed to mosey on forever. (Anybody born in the 80's, sorry. You don't have enough reference to play in this thread, and frankly you got gyped out of a good childhood. But don't feel bad! You got those Ninja Turtles, right? They were cool. Sort of. Whatever. My condolances. You'll get another chance in another life.) Anyway, when I was a kid, Time was really nice and slow! I even remember getting confused trying to count how many years had passed since Star Wars came out. We'd get mixed up because we kept counting the summer holidays as a whole year. A legit error, in my books. Damn! You could get so much stuff done in a day back then!
Not like these days, boy! Holy smokes, I get up, eat breakfast, take a shower and it's already lunch time! I do maybe two things, work like a bastard right till bed time, (getting almost nothing done), and that's it Bob! That's the day. Gone in a flash. And I certainly don't think it's just a matter of perceptions. (Well, technically, everything is a matter of perceptions on a certain level, but that's not what I'm talking about here.)
Time always speeds up before the end, according to a variety of schools of thought. Heck, even the bible in all it's propagandized, muddied, corrupted and manipulated paragraphs describes the days being shortened near the end. --Though, I prefer the Star Fleet reasoning; Ahem. "To explain the Time Differential we are experiencing, the analogy of a sea shore is an apt example; The water is being sucked out as the Wave approaches." Or something pseudo-technical. Screw it. Blast 'em with the photon torpedos and let's get the hell out of here while everybody's confused.
Oh, best of all! (This is just hilarious!) Even the king of tow-the-line science geeks, buddy boy, Jay Ingram over on Canada's Discovery Channel, did a short piece on how Time is speeding up. Can you believe it? It's getting so damned noticable that they had to pull out their big guns!
Of course, Jay-boy put the expected spin on things, (Perceptions. What was the word they came up with. . ? Hm, gone now. But it was a very clever and chalk-dusty sort of phrase at any rate), and with the time-tested propagandic, "Trust your warm and safe Educational Authority Figures, Kids!" video production qualities stamped on the segment, pencil neck Jay signed off on yet another piece of "Nothing to see here, Citizen," documentary, and stalked away with that quiet yet moody air of job disatisfaction he has been displaying ever since the mid nineties when he landed the job of Science-Boy Anchor. --I wonder if perhaps on a deep level he realizes that he's shoveling shit for the Man, and despises himself for it. The world may never know. Or care.)
Anyway. .
So all the clocks are rigged, eh? That's almost too juicy an idea to jump on! So I don't think I will. --Cuz, while time is a certainly deeply rooted function of awareness, and while having a round, numbered face pounding away the seconds with rhythmic All-Seeing enforcement, might serve to hold this rapidly unraveling reality in place for a short while longer, (while the power elite pack their underwear and finalize their highly unlikely escape plans), I just don't think that Time is at the beck and call of a nation of wrong clocks.
Still. . . It's a neat idea, in a Twilight Zone kind of way!
And when it comes to battling geeks, I bet Rod Serling could kick Jay Ingram's butt any day of the week. That's the power of imagination, baby!
-Fantastic Lad
Great Scott! Someone find the Doc he will know what to do!
chris at darkrock dot co dot uk
http colon slash slash www dot darkrock dot co dot uk
...The FUCK is this doing on slashdot? If i wanted to read about the failure of modern civilization to provide resources for its citisens, i'd read stuff at CNN/BBC/Local papers.
Read the top slogan; "News for nerds - Stuff that matters". This does NOT matter.
They are probably still using the old magnetic technology. Not "digital" per se, but they do keep track of time by mechanically accumulating the phase reversals of the power line.
Telechron Line Operated Clocks
They were quite popular in the States a decade ago.. they are extremely robust. I have one made in 1941 thats still working fine.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
It is all about the energy put into the system. The higher the frequency the higher the amount of energy you get out of your wall outlet in a given time frame. The generators are turning slower because the energy put into the grid as a whole doesnt allow them to go any faster.
;-)
Or something like that
Do most of the people in Venezuela plug their clocks into power sockets? Hello? Does that make much sense? Most clocks run on batteries. I think the article attempts to mislead.
Another great piece of pathetic journalism, causing the not so intelligent people in the world to have a conversation about something that doesn't and wondering when they'll find another great story from MSNBC.
Analytic & algebraic topology of locally Euclidean meterization of infinitely differentiable Riemmanian manifold
MOD PARENT UP !!
Take out a countries atomic clocks.
By slowing down the generators, you convert the mechanical energy of their decelerating rotational inertial mass into electrical power. Quite similar to regenerative braking in electric cars. Now, once steady-state 50Hz is obtained (having dropped from 60Hz) I don't know how you could continue to get an energy boost; I'd have to look that one up.
hi, I like pancakes -.-- -.-- --..
** NO **
the idiots can't admit that they are ignorant! this person has the brass to admit that he doesn't know everything! amen!
eric
"Isn't that just a fancy way of saying you're an idiot?"
Isn't THAT a fancy way of saying you're jealous??
Yep, that's right. To hell with Occum's Razor I say - that's a much more interesting explanation than thier A/C frequency slowing down. See, this is what happens when everyone grows up on TV and video games - no imagination. Sad.
_sig_ is away
His name is Hugo Chavez not 'cesar chavez'.
In Soviet Russia, radio listens to YOU!
(And that really is the case)
... is the best place to stay at the end of the world. It will come several hours late.
Is this another example of special relativity? Or just another example of clocks malfunctioning which might lead one to believe that "time slows down".
Even power generating facilities have equipment protecting switchgear. Very large circuit breakers. They open within a cycle or two-- very quickly. There won't be any damage to generating equipment, but there won't be any power transmission either until the lines are cleared.
has ANYBODY here actually done high school science??
take a DC electric motor, spin the shaft - easy
dead short the terminals, try to spin the shaft,
if its a good motor - verry dificult - the energy your inputting into the motor by trying to spin it is being converted into current in the wires, and then to heat.
the same principle still applies using AC generators -when all those big industrial plants fire up thier equipment it draws a huge amount of current. its going to take more torque to turn the generator, there may simply not be enough to turn the generator fast enough, the boilers, the hydro feed, the diesel engine powering the generator is no longer able to spin it as fast as usual, under ideal circimstances theey all spin at 60(where i am)Hz divided by the number of poles in the generator (take 3 as a guess) all times 60 seconds in a miute gives 1200rpm
the rate of spin is directly linked to the frequency of the output power.
my apologies to those of you who allready know this/have a better understanding than myself)
the frequency is NOT lowered intentionally.
although it will have an effect on the
voltage/current output of a transformer, remember the voltage is transformed up at the power station, and tranformed back down at the sub stations. depending on the generators native voltage, (wich wont be anything like high tension) the affect of varying frequency on consumer end voltages should be minamal.
You want to know what the hell is going on in Venezuela?
Check this 2mb video
(there are english, spanish, french and italian versions).
Most clocks, I don't know about you but I use have two digital plug in clocks, they both use AC power rectified from a step down transformer to DC power using a classic 'bridge' rectifier, then use a voltage regulator chip to smooth out and regulate voltage to a much smaller but consistent DC voltage, typicaly 3-12 volts DC. The older 780x series of voltage regulator chips were good, but the more modern chips are much better. The amount of power on the grid fluctuates every day, however the frequency doesn't. Which, for older mechanical clocks would make a difference because an AC motor rotates in a direct relation to the input voltage frequency. For the type of clocks most people use it would make a difference because the chips inside use a steady DC current, which brings me to my next point.
The problem that is likely causing your clocks to get off sync are cheap and shoddy timing circuits. An example of this would be the shoddy clock chip on the old IBM clones. This chip (Intel 8253) has a very low clock tick-resolution ~18.2 times a second, which was fine for polling a joystick, etc on the older boxes, but is terrible for accurate time-keeping. Most digital watches have millions of 'clock-ticks' per second.
I don't have a clock you insensitive cl...
...oh wait.
I read Slashdot for the
I think Geek should stop speaking about politics becauuse they seems known NOTHING. Actually I liv in Venezuela, I los my job beecause th company I was working for (an Amrican one) left the country, Im now one of the 24% people without work, Im an Electronic Engineer with a PhD. If you think Tech Jobs in the US are scarse here they are inexistent. You find Eengineers, arquitects, IT Pros, etc selling Cds on the streets (just an example) or driving Taxis. Our currecy dropped more than 200%. Of coursee yoou complain for the gas price, and I understand you, but for all this guys telling that only the richs are afected by this stupid goverment, are really really wrong. THis president has a TV show each sunday, ad talk for 6 hours, speaking bad about your cointry and any country or people not thinking as him. LAs sunday he spoke about Colombia, Spain and US, and Today US embasssy iss cclossed by a terrorist warning, and on thuesday two bomb explodes in the Colombia and Spanish embassy. He also chain all the Private TV each nigth and speaks for hours, what you think if Bush do the same???. And this is only few things we have here.
I live in venezuela. This have been for almost a year I think. Every day I have to adjust the alarm clock 3 min. the drift seemed to stop on december. But it started again on january
why would DC be better for distrabution?? you cant run it through a transformer. using high voltage/low current minimises loss of power in the transmission lines (P=i*(r^2)) increasing the voltage by a facto of 100, and decreasing current by a factor of 100, at the transformer means that you only use 1% of the power you would otherwise have done heating up the high tension lines. DC motors are very easy compared to AC motors, nikolai tesla was told as a child that an AC motor was a physical imposibility by his science teacher, (whom tesla proved worng in fairly short order) on the other hand, AC generators had been shown to proved to be much more efficent allready by this time. (remember, tesla basically invented the modern power grid - from the exact type of generator, the three phase/mono phase scheme (although he favourd universal twin phase) to the transformers, industrial motors, and an knock off of eddisons lightbulb(tesla had worked for eddison, when he first mooved to america, they didnt get along, and tesla ended up working for General Electric Corporation, GEC won. tesla/gec could transmit power hundreds of times further than edisons low voltage DC system could manage.) here in NZ we use a 500KV DC+ve line to run power from the south island to the north island,(-ve is ground return!) where it is instantly re-inverted to AC, and transformed down. DC is only used where special cercumstances make it neccesary (about 70%(?) of NZ's power generating capacity is in the south island, and the gap, cook straight is big enough that running 3 wires is much more than a trivial problem, compared to 1 wire.) anyways, DC is ineficeint, except in special circumstances, its to be avoided, because you cant transform it. DC motors are ineffecient, but conceptulally simple. AC motors need a bit more thought, but the eliminate the most ineficent part of a (good) DC motor - the comutator brushes. and AC motor can use bearings, or rotoate the magnets, and leave the coils stationary (even better) AC generators ar massivly supereor to a dynamo. especially b/c if you want AC so you can use transformers, from a dynamo, oyu need to build an inverter, which is a horrid mess of transistors, or higher capacity equivelents and hideously expensive.
He is certainly all of them. His economic policy is very socialist as it involves taking power from the people and concentrating it in the hands of the state rulers. Like extreme communists, he opposes worker rights, and he wants to ban worker-controlled labor unions (to make the place more like Communist paradises Cuba and North Korea.
He has expressed great admiration for the current leftover Soviet colonial government that is ruining Cuba. Who else but a communist would do that? An even more troubling question, who else but a puppet of Castro would so love his horrific rule?
He is very much in the model of Pol Pot, Allende, Castro, and Arbenz, trying to turn himself into "president for life" by quietly trying to get rid of political parties he does not control, and bringing media into his personal control (while censoring media outside of his control).
The American (Bush administration) is involved with trying to restore democracy to Venezuela. This is not a secret;it is well reported. Good thing, this is!
He's trying to turn Venezuela into another Cuba. The difference is that Chavez was elected, and Castro as a colonial governor. was installed by his Soviet masters. But the result is the same (be it imperialism or an "Election to End All Elections").
"The economy is very much capitalist, and very much a democracy.
Chavez has reduced both forms of freedom, and he proposes to get rid of all of it. After all, he has expressed that Castro's Cuba is his model (a place with no economic freedom or democracy). Once Chavez succeeds in making the place a one-party state, nothing will stop him.
"In fact, his reaction to these protests seems a lot more measured than what it would be in the US."
Yeah, right....
Prisons for people who need "Re-education"? What great housing! Land reform where lands are stolen from people and added to his personal estates? Great land reform!
He's been "undemocratic" as far as the sector of the population that has been benefitting from the oil boom is concerned
He is undemocratic as far as everyone is concerned; he has made clear his intention to rig elections.
Unlike Somoza, he is smart enough to used silver-tongued lies about his oppression being to help the people.
There is plenty of damning evidence against him. Too bad so many people are fooled when he speaks the invalid but seductive language of Marxism.
Wouldn't the lower frequency also affect television and video since the frame rate is determined by the AC (ie. North America 60 Hz = 30 fps video NTSC, Europe 50 Hz = 25 fps PAL)? Would one hour television shows now be an hour and a bit?
Someone also mentioned Japan running 2 different frequencies for east/west? Anyone know how that works for video?
Not true. Only a fraction of the total media outlets (the entire picture of print, radio, etc.) are owned by these companies.
"and whats worse is that the government is looking at removing some monopoly controls which would only make the situation worse."
Since there is no monopoly, these controls are not needed and should be removed. The need for such controls are typically brought up by those who want to censor or otherwise change the actual content of the media.
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Irene KHAAAAAAN!
CNN and the other left-wing media loves to blame the U.S. first.
Want to read why Latin America really is screwed up?
Latin America is screwed up because of West European imperialism from 1492 to 1900, US imperialism from 1900 to 1945, and Soviet imperialism from 1945 to 1989. The US's role has been positive since after ww2 (opposing imperialism in Latin America) helping make up for the first half of the 20th century.
Why the CIA overthrew so many democratic governments there
You cannot name ONE. from Arbenz' terror state (in which parties other than his own were outlawed) to Allende who enforced his rule with the Soviet army to the Sandinistas (who physically assaulted those who dared run against them in 1984).
"(thus explaining why the idea that it tried to otherthrow the Venezuelan govt."
That one is not democratic either. Hugo has made himself president-for-life, and is in the process of dismantling legal opposition to his rule.
why the US waged covert war on Nicaragua
You have it backwards. The Soviets waged war against this country during the 1980s. All the U.S. did was help keep Nicaraguan nationalism alive until the democratic process could actually overcome the Sandinista's rigged elections.
"and still refuses to honour the World Court ruling adjudging it to owe Nicaragua $17 billion in damages
Why not hold those guilty responsible. Well, the USSR is gone and Russia is bankrupt now. But maybe Castro could pay. He was personally involved with creating the Sandinistas.
"Or a real discussion regarding the war on Iraq. Try finding that on US media etc with their 'selective amnesia'."
The real discussion, with accurate information on all aspects, is going on in the U.S.
"I do admit however that BBC, which you also mention is better (not being corporate owned always helps)."
What is wrong with being corporate-owned? Most independent media is as a necessicity of corporate organization for liability reasons. The BBC is worse since it is government-run and government-controlled and thus represents actual ruling elites.
I toured the Bonneville Dam Power Station on the Columbia River between Washington State and Oregon. There's a huge powerhouse on a hill overlooking the dam (on the Oregon side) that produces DC to send to southern California. It uses two current-carrying conductors - one at +750kV, the other at -750kV with respect to ground. Talk about HUGE rectifiers! They claim that over the distances they send the energy that DC is 10-20% more efficient even with the conversion loss on either end. It also avoids phase lock issues (as mentioned ad nauseum).
see this excellent PDF on the subject.
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
woops - i got the links to my website wrong! i meant this. (is it not possible to fix your own posts?)
Fox, ABC, etc are independent media, accountable to their audiences. BBC is government controlled, accountable to the ruling class.
good lord, I am glad you don't design digital circuitry. 60Hz stable? why would someone in digital design use an analog reference full of noise from the outside as a sync for internal clocking? and crystal they would use would be on the order of Mhz and small changes from temperature would not be needed. unless you are going from -40 to +130 you would not see alot of drift on a xo. you could even go as far as getting a vcxo for the clock, but that's over kill.
heh you don't want a stable clock in your computer? what do you use an abacus? it needs to be stable and consistent. the point is that all parts of the computer dont follow the beat of the same drum and any clocking introduced into each part needs to be locked to a common source (ie xo referenced pll)
sheesh, fucking learn before you open your mouth
The official position is, of course, "weapons of mass destruction". The argument is, if inspectors find such weapons, it shows Iraq has violated U.N resolutions and must be disarmed by force (war). If inspectors find nothing, it shows Iraq is hiding evidence and is violating U.N resolutions, so must be disarmed by force (war). The absurdity is obvious - I'd like to see someone challenge Bush or Cheney to explain their self-contradiction here.
There is more - the mere fact that the U.S has allied itself with Pakistan, which boasts of its weapons of mass destruction, especially nuclear. And other countries which possess them, like Israel. This is because possession of such weapons is irrelevant anyway. There is no guarantee that whatever administration takes over in Iraq won't develop its own chemical or biological weapons, if current American allies are allowed to (after all, Iraq was such an American ally). The issue is trusting the country not to use them.
Is it possible to convince Iraq not to use chemical or biological weapons? Obviously yes - the threat of equal or greater retaliation convinced Iraq not to use them during the last Gulf War, when it both posessed them and had them ready to deploy. The policy of containment worked against the Soviet Union until it fell apart, it can easily work against a powerless Iraq indefinitely.
So the arguments are both logically flawed, and just plain too dumb to believe. But the American administration is not that dumb. Nobody is dumb enough to believe that without being diagnosed as mentally retarded. It is, however, an international lever that I think they hoped to use to get U.N approval (apparently Powell thinks this is important and was the one advocating it). Unfortunately for them, there are others who are every bit as skillful manipulating international opinion as they are, so this hasn't gone as well as they had boped.
Bush isn't really smart enough to have planned this all out on his own, and it's probably against his nature - he likes being straightforward in what he says. Which probably explains why he's done so badly at trying to mislead the world.
Given that, speculation abounds as to what the real reason is. The number one choice is oil, but that doesn't make sense either for a variety of reasons. The easiest way to get the oil would be to lift the embargo, then just buy it - prices are set internationally, so it doesn't really matter if American, French, or Russian companies control production in Iraq.
There's more, but the oil argument is pretty flimsy.
Other arguments are a personal vendetta (finish Daddy's unfinished business), Israeli conspiracy (popular among the the Arabs), or simply that Saddam Hussein is can't be bought and is disobedient to the American masters of the world.
This last one is probably closer to the truth. Most countries in the world can be persuaded by diplomacy (Britain), or by simple bribery (Turkey), to do what America wants. Especially the small, insignificant countries like those in the Middle East. Iraq and Iran are alone in the area in having actual principles, and refusing to be bought (hence being included in the axis of evil and all that).
But this still ignores important things, such as Cuba. It has been a festering thorn in the American side since the revolution. Incidentally, it also has a very advanced pharmaceutical industry - so advanced that the U.S trade embargo was pardoned for one of the vaccines (for a type of hepatitis, I think) developed in Cuba but not available in the U.S. Ths means that Cuba has a capacity for chemical and biological weapons exceeding Iraq, plus is disobedient, and on America's doorstep.
But there's no cry for war with Cuba. Or other countries that vex U.S demands.
There is an alternative possibility. One that is not only unlikely, but outrageously unbelievable, but at the same time has a moral strength to it that would appeal to someone like Bush.
As I said, it's unbelievable, so feel free to not believe it. But consider it.
In a recent speech, Bush detailed a rosy future for post-war Iraq, where democracy and human rights flourish, and which serves as an inspiration for democracy throughout the Middle East. What if... what if he believes that?
David Frum, a former speechwriter for Bush (the one who's credited with the "Axis of Evil" phrase, but actually wrote "Axis of Hate") explains it in a book recently published. It is the American (Republican) point of view that America has served as a force of good in the world, and a bringer of democracy. As Bush remarked in his speech, they believe that America was responsible for making Germany and Japan democratic after the WW II, and further strengthened it with the Martial Plan for rebuilding Europe, as well as the other countries it had liberated, including Korea (before the war) and the Philippines among others. And later, their intervention stabilized Central America and brought human rights and elected governments to the region.
Please stop laughing. The facts don't matter, it's what they believe.
According to Frum, it is the sincere belief that American influence "fixed" Central America. And the Republican administration wants to now turn its attention to the formerly neglected Middle East and reform those countries there.
In this scenario. Iraq is the single biggest obstacle - it is the most repressive, most totalitarian, and most beligerant country in the region. In order for any progress to be made, it must be dealt with, and that means "fixing" it first. War is the only option, given it's leadership.
You know, this isn't a new policy. You can be sure that America (under presidents such as Reagan and Nixon) would have done the same thing against the Soviet Union, if they had the ability - you can see it in Reagan's "bombing begins in five minutes" quip when he didn't know a microphone was turned on. And I think they really believe it would have worked - after all, there's the refrain "look at Japan and Germany, and remember the Marshal Plan" (the Marshal Plan is held in almost religious reverence by U.S foreign policy advocates, overshadowing all other "missteps").
It also explians their position on North Korea, doesn't it?
Why wouldn't Bush and company have said this in the first place? Probably two reasons. First, there is the lack of universal support for it - a nice way of saying that they've got a reputation for shitting on the faces of countries they've tried to help, and nobody trusts them. The first response would have pointed out Chile (ask them what "September 11" means to them), Vietnam, Cambodia, Nicaragua, and more, and it would have turned into a shouting match of who's more moral than whom.
At least nobody's going to say "but I think Iraq should have weapons of mass destruction!".
The second is that they would lose immediate support from almost every country in the Middle East - in that area, only Turkey and Israel are democratic (and almost the Palistinian territories, if Israel would ever allow an election). All the others have a vested interest in keeping things as they are. Nobody would allow the U.S to use their territory, or cooperate in other ways, even in exchange for massive foreign aid - they would be paying for their own eventual overthrow.
Already, there has been significant negative reaction to what Bush has said about his post-Iraq vision.
Of course, Iraq is not the end solution, and the administration realizes this. It would be a decades long project to bring democracy to the Middle East. And, I fear, they are both ignorant and short sighted about a number of things.
A war and regeime change will probably create more chaos than they imagine, and may cause the disintegration of everything they expect in the area. Bad. They also have a poor track record of success when interfering with other countries, often making them worse than when they started. More bad. And they're counting on future adminstrations to carry on the policy that they are starting. There is no guarantee, or even likelihood, of that.
I think war with Iraq is going to be the first step into a giant swamp of muddy problems that will bit their asses like, you know, swamp alligators or something. That is the real danger, and that is also far more frightening than even the worse speculations involving oil or chemical weapons. The United States may be starting what amounts to a low level war with the entire region for the next fourty years. And associated terrorsm. And the cost!
Honestly, I'm glad I don't live in the U.S.
Computers in Venuzuela think they are running faster. This condition lasts until overcurrent blows out your ac compressor and blowers.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
It's an interesting argument, although it reeks of crazy conspiracy guy.
I don't understand your mention of Venezuela using oil as an ersatz fiat currency. How can something with actual value be a fiat currency? It's impossible. A barrel of oil has in intrinsic value and therefore cannot be an instrument only based upon trust such as a fiat currency is.
I thought we talked about fiat currencies before and at that time you seemed to understand well what a fiat currency is. I don't understand what happened.
Just adds more to making you look like a crackpot. Crackpots love to flog terms the general public doesn't understand (even when they aren't applicable) as a way of making their arguments seem more erudite.
I'm claiming this is a good way to do it. Significant voltage reductions will destroy many motors, among other things. But (if it's linear, which I don't know) they could get the 0.1 hz they need by lowering the voltage by .17 percent -- 0.2 volts for 120v lines. The input voltage tolerances are big enough that that won't mess up equipment -- unless, of course, they've already lowered it to the bottom of the range.
Something like this was done in Vietnam a few years ago, and probably still is. I don't know what the frequencies were, but the voltage was said to vary from 90v during peak use to 300v in the middle of the night. Every TV I saw when I was there was plugged in to a voltage stabilization box -- basically an induction dimmer adjusted by a servo.
Al Qeada did NOT exist when the U.S. was backing Afghanistan independence fighters.
"as they were behind saddam when he fought Iran, etc. It is not the US people, it is the US government that the US people do not really know all they have done. But it is a problem with any empire, not just this one"
Actually it is anti-imperialism. Iran at the time was attacking 2 or 3 Middle Eastern countries which made it a greater imperialist threat. The USSR, the real empire in this time, had conquered Afghanistan, and the U.S. helped Afghanistan out.
"Companies objective is to make money to their shareholders not to make people happy. "
In reality, if a company does not make people happy it will not have customers or workers. The incentive for corporations to make the people involved happy is very strong.
After looking over a few interesting explainations as to why Venezuelan clocks are running slow, is there any idea why my VCR clock runs fast? I've noticed that over the span of ten months it has advanced on its own by about one minute a month. Any thoughts?
I hate all sigs, even this one.
They accuse Bush of attempting to silence his critices, and completely ignore it when Chavez silences his critics - permanently.
As Lenin said - useful idiots.
....when in fact he is protecting it. Filing a brief to strengthen the 2nd Amendment. Opposing the University of Michigan admissions policy that punishes people for having the wrong skin color (a violation of due process). Nominating judges who actually want to protect Constitutional rights, not protect unconstutional laws that deny people's rights.
If you're in Soviet Russia, by definition, something is wrong!
One that has recognized that he is an anti-democratic fascist who has proclaimed that he will not let anything, even future elections, get him out of power. One that in WW2 went to war to help overthrow a "Democratically elected" leader in Germany.
Same gov't that overthrew [named other dictators]
Yup.!
Hell, they're not even White!
But Chavez makes things interesting. But for Castro's Gulag (did you know that the prisoners at Camp X-Ray often have more rights than the average Cuban citizen?), Latin America is a peaceful place in the process of rebuilding after 40 years or so of Soviet aggression.
The wars in Nicaragua and El Salvador ended with the Soviet regime causing them fell out of power.
No. but since the U.S. interest is in democracy, the two go together.
"No, the US is much more interested in promoting Democracy than securing oil interests"
Exactly. U.S. policy has nothing to do with securing oil interests anywhere.
Try using a US analog clock in a country like Thailand that has 50Hz power. You loose 10 minutes every hour!
Make sure to use a converter as 120v clocks don't like 240v.
Not everything will run on a Coleman generator. If more people understood back EMF there would be a lot fewer smoked motors.
All my previous sigs now look like this one, I wish they were permanetly recorded when used.
Older clocks, like the ones in grade schools back in the 60s and 70s (and also many of those old electromechanical wall timers) work by following the 60 hz cycle from their AC supply. Typically an 1800 or 900 rpm motor scaled down with a planetary gear. Quite simple and clever if you ever open one up.
:-)
They're losing 9000 cycles per day (150 seconds * 60 cycles/second * 24 hours). Which works out to 59.896 cycles per second. They're running at 4-nines instead of 5-nines.
I'm not sure how clever it is to lower the frequency since that will more power consumption by the load. Here in Silicon Valley -- and elsewhere in north america -- when the power company wants to conserve energy they lower the voltage -- say to 110V or even lower some times -- again this requires more current draw from the load (P=V*A) but this way you make the consumer pay for the below par service. Their appliances are running less efficiently, heating up and burning out. It's not a bad idea to keep track of the quality of your mains power.
And i have to tell you that he has been trying every single tactic to delay new elections because he knows hes lost the support that elected him back in 1998.
Where do you get this "fact" that he has done a lot for the poor people here? Have you been here lately? Have you seen the rising number of homeless and unemployed here in the streets?
And know hes trying to shut down TV stations that disagree with him and has 3 political prisoners with more to come, just because we went on strike to defend our democracy.He doesnt sound very democratic to me...
Ill be everyday on the streets of Caracas marching to defend my country till I see this little Fidel Castro wannabe out of here....
Venezuela's department of tourism slogan was recently chaged to "We don't even need accurate clocks, because in Venezuela, it's always BOOTY TIME!"
let us play tit for tat
i admit that the cia has and is doing nasty things in venezuela
agreed? i am being intellectually honest
ok, now for your intellectual honesty:
the people of venezuela- with or without the cia with them, want to overthrow chavez
agreed?
good, now we can proceed without taint of propaganda from the right OR the left
geez
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Well, indymedia is not any more independent than other non-government media. What makes indymedia stand out is that it claims to be some sort of valid objective source, when it is really, more than most others, hogtied by such very stringent ideology that the facts are filtered through (if they are facts at all).
Sorry, had to.
Name ONE south american democratic leader overthrown by the U.S. Just one please.
It is clear the clocks are moving forward in the White House: Fascist dictators in Latin America should be a thing of the past, and Hugo is such a relic.
That is the start; a false premise. He doesn't want war. He is trying to end Saddam Hussein's ongoing war and aggression. He has given Saddam plenty of time to and opportunity to end it. Face it, there is war over there. Saddam is attacking Israel through proxy PLO armies. He is engaging shooting at peacekeepers in the no fly zones. He is killing tens of thousands of Iraqis each year.
"If inspectors find nothing, it shows Iraq is hiding evidence and is violating U.N resolutions, so must be disarmed by force (war). The absurdity is obvious"
Out of date! The weapons keep turning up every few days ago. Inspectors are not finding "nothing".
"This is because possession of such weapons is irrelevant anyway."
Very relevant for an aggressive imperialist power like Iraq. Not relevant for Israel.
"The policy of containment worked against the Soviet Union until it fell apart, it can easily work against a powerless Iraq indefinitely."
Powerless? This is a country funding war against Israel. They are using the food distribution system to kill civilians. It is a place where rape is a punishment dealt out as part of the criminal justice system. No weapons inspections stop any of this. With containment, his aggression continues.
"So the arguments are both logically flawed, and just plain too dumb to believe"
You based your arguments on false pretenses (like that Bush actually wants war, or that inspectors might find nothing when they already have found plenty)
"Bush isn't really smart enough to have planned this all out on his own, and it's probably against his nature"
Guy's pretty smart, actually.
"Which probably explains why he's done so badly at trying to mislead the world."
He's been honest, up-front, and straightforward on all of this so far. That he has done "Badly" in some places is that some places cannot handle the truth.
"There's more, but the oil argument is pretty flimsy"
Certainly, for reasons you name. It is much easier to get oil with Saddam's help than against him.
Yes. The U.S. had a major role in making Germany democratic, and was the only one that transformed Japan.
"And later, their intervention stabilized Central America and brought human rights and elected governments to the region. Please stop laughing. The facts don't matter, it's what they believe."
THe real history is pretty close to this. Especially Latin America. Of course, it should be mentioned that the end of the USSR got rid of the main reason for war and human rights abuses in the area.
don't waste time on CNN or the like - read this: http://www.heritage.org/Research/LatinAmerica/bg16 23.cfm
by Naomi Klein,
The Nation
Poor Endy Chávez, outfielder for the Navegantes del Magallanes, one of Venezuela's big baseball teams. Every time he comes up to bat, the local TV sportscasters start in with the jokes. "Here comes Chávez. No, not the pro-Cuban dictator Chávez, the other Chávez." Or "This Chávez hits baseballs, not the Venezuelan people."
In Venezuela, even color commentators are enlisted in the commercial media's open bid to oust the democratically elected government of Hugo Chávez. Andrés Izarra, a Venezuelan television journalist, says that the campaign has done so much violence to truthful information on the national airwaves that the four private TV stations have effectively forfeited their right to broadcast. "I think their licenses should be revoked," he says.
It's the sort of extreme pronouncement one has come to expect from Chávez, known for nicknaming the stations "the four horsemen of the apocalypse." Izarra, however, is harder to dismiss. A squeaky clean made-for-TV type, he worked as assignment editor in charge of Latin America at CNN en Español until he was hired as news production manager for Venezuela's highest-rated newscast, El Observador on RCTV.
On April 13, 2002, the day after business leader Pedro Carmona briefly seized power, Izarra quit that job under what he describes as "extreme emotional stress." Ever since, he has been sounding the alarm about the threat posed to democracy when the media decide to abandon journalism and pour all their persuasive powers into winning a war being waged over oil.
[read the whole thing over here ]
-- haaz.
The big point of this which is overlooked in the sequence of events:
Baseball commentators say bad things about the dictator.
A so-called journalist, a stooge for the dictatorship named Izarra, calls for pulling the licenses of the TV stations just for being critical of the government.
This so-called journalist is forced from his job.
Now, what is wrong with a TV station firing someone who claims to be a journalist but calls for pulling the licenses of stations critical of the government?
"Ever since, he has been sounding the alarm about the threat posed to democracy when the media decide to abandon journalism and pour all their persuasive powers into winning a war being waged over oil."
Two whoppers in there. For one, this has nothing to do with oil. For another, Chavez has railroaded Venezuelan democracy. He is the main "threat to democracy". Not baseball commentators who call the dictator what he really is!
Reading between the lines, this story does show how another aspect to the unpopularity of the dictator.
hi,
well its good to hear from some people in a position to know more than the limited amount we can find out through the papers.
my e-mail address should be on the website, but its mike@bevin.de .
Having worked for an American electric company (AEP) at a power plant I can tell you how clock sync problems used to be handled. On the wall of the control room was your average electric clock. Next to it was a hand wound (highly accurate) chronometer. Every night at midnight the time was compared between the two clocks. If the electric clock was ahead, the Hz would be turned down a little until the clocks synced. If behind then the Hz would be increased. By morning they would be in sync.
Of course that was years ago. With modern technology this is no longer a problem. Oh, and while I have you attention, the turbine always spins at 3600 rpm. No we don't make it spin faster when we need more power.
Thanks,
I was thinking of Argentina then
The IMF is what I've been told is bad.
does right-wing = capitalist or communist?
imo, both can be done right or wrong...
So, I think there are some good capitalists and some good communists... but there are bad communists and bad capitalists...
Please use [ informative / summarizing ] SUBJECT LINES
Flame me here
This sounds too much like some crazy conspiracy. Answer me this simple question: Why did the US not take control of the Iraq oil fields after the gulf war?
Because there was no need to. It was much cheaper to keep Saddam "contained", and buy his oil in practically inflation-free dollars, in a market that the US could keep control of.
That high-minded Foe of Terrorism, Dick Cheney, was doing exactly that via his company Haliburton, until Saddam started demanding payment in Euros.
I agree with you, it's absolutely mindboggling. But it's true. Cheney has successfully managed to keep this out of the press though, and keep Congress from subpoenaing papers that described his involvement, using court injunctions.
Why do you think the US grabbed Saddam's recently submitted documentation on WMD, and then distributed an "edited version" to the other members of the UN Security Council? Because all the dirt on US and European companies was in there, and Bush and Blair's "moral case for war" would have been made a laughingstock.
This is all about the money.
No, I can't find any hard evidence that a majority in Venezuela wants to overthrow Chavez. The polls coming out of there all seem to be sourced from the same two polling companies, both run by his opponents, one of whom has stated publicly that Chavez should be killed. So getting the straight facts on the situation is not quite as easy as it looks.
Bah, my old Sony clock near the bed, whose original purpose was to act as a "timer" for an old piano key VCR has been slowing down for almost a year, and it is just now you notice? How is this news for /.?!? I don't get it, considering it wasn't much of a news for me living here either!
They reduced the cycles to save power a bit. Maybe we should adopt Japan's standards for power distro.
Artix
Your Linux, your init.
You hate Chavez, say it aloud, but that doesn't give you any right to spread BULLSHIT, just because you don't know any better.
It is a FACT WRITTEN IN THE CONSTITUTION that the PRESIDENT does NOT have the FACULTY to advance elections. If there is something to blame him for, is his advocacy for following the constitution we approved in referendum in 1999, and the respect for the law.
And he is also not trying to shutdown any damn TV station!. But boy they deserve it, and God knows enough chances for them to redeem have been granted. There is enough evidence of their involvement in the failed coup of the past April 11, and their open calls to the military to rise up in arms against the democratically elected government. However, unlike the dictator you want him to be, Chavez is not the LAW, and the courts will decide.
Hello? Did he order the arrest of the terrorists you call "political prisoners"? No. It was a Judge, following a petition from a public prosecutor, because there is plenty of proven evidence that these people commited ACTS OF TREASON AND TERRORISM against the country.
Don't spread that mockade about "strike to defend our democracy", when the first thing these terrorists did in April 11, was to abolish the constitution, the Parliament, the Supreme Court, all the Governors and Mayors, the very same people that instigared the recent acts of SABOTAGE AGAINST OUR OIL COMPANY and endangered MILLIONS OF LIVES by blocking by force the suply of fuel to our local market and all of our international clients, like the United United States of America.
They are also so mad in their hatred against the Chavez, they even dare order us to not celebrate Christmas! Who are they to speak about democracy when they can't even accept somebody thinking different? And Caracas has suffered enough acts of FASCISM only reminisent of Germany and Italy of the 30ies.
Sure, so easy to say "we went on strike" but why don't you tell them what they do to those "daring" disobey the "strike"? Why don't you tell them about the Brigades of black weared people going on motorcycles everywhere to mark and close by force the industries and shops wanting to open their doors during December and January? How about the attacks to the people that don't openly express hate against Chavez? The workers locked out by force? The big MALLs locking out the doors to sop the shop owners wanting to open their doors, and the brigades of black weared people harassing them just because they wanted to work?
How about your beloved TV stations chained together broadcasting political anti Chavez propaganda 24 hours a day the whole month of December, not only instigating people to go out and cause violence, but also calling the military and foreign countries alike to rise in arms against the democratically elected government?
There is plenty of everyday evidence of everything happening here, and there is no amount of lies that you people so insanely out of your own minds can spread in the world for them outside to be confused anymore. When those of you attacked the foreign media, who dared not speak against Chavez, you, yourselves showed the world your true face.
For those of you knowing spanish, i have a very slow page with some videos about what happened the last months in Venezuela. If you are interested, come and see the facts, then decide by yourselves.
http://artemis3.no-ip.org:10100/ve.html
Artix
Your Linux, your init.
However, that is not war. Remember, much of the funding for the IRA came from the U.S.A - that does not mean America was at war with England. In addition, PLO and other organisations are also funded by Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and most other Arab countries which the U.S calls "allies".
The military patrols of the no-fly zones were never authorized by the U.N. - the U.N had passed a resolution forbidding Iraqi agression against the Kurds, but did not authorise force. Details get murky about what this actually means, but most countries have accepted the U.S/U.K interpretation of patrolled no-fly zones.However, the partols are not "peacekeeping" activities. "Peacekeeping" means stopping military activity - that is, keeping peace. Attacks on air defense installations are military activity - not peacekeeping. Most countries don't deny Iraq has the right to try.
If Iraq ever brought down an aircraft, things would get complicated. Luckily, it's academic at the moment.
Definitely a bad thing, but again, not "war". A country killing one's own citizens (e.g. at Kent State?) is immoral, but an "internal matter". I'd certainly like to stop it, but in a way that doesn't result in the deaths of hundreds of thousands more (if killing tens of thousands is bad for Iraq, why would it not be bad for the U.S and U.K?). Rhetorical. The point was, the demands contradicted themselves. Formerly agressive - Iraq hasn't been militarily agressive against anyone for a decade.I explained why its irrelevant - if they're never used, it makes no difference. The important thing is to ensure they are never used. This is why most countries want to possess them - for deterrence, not for use.
In his way, I suppose, but there's a lot of people who think otherwise. He is fairly inarticulate when he departs from a prepared script, and doesn't do much more than double-talk when challenged or asked an unexpected question. He doesn't give much public indication of having a lot of deep thought (I'm a bit less charitable - I think he sounds like a football coach when he speaks on his own, and about as smart).From what I've read, it's mostly Powell who came up with the U.N strategy.
That's a pretty empty assertion. "Handle the truth" means...? Assuming it is the truth - his more recent speech seems to indicate it wasn't.There was once a programmer who was attached to the court of the
warlord of Wu. The warlord asked the programmer: "Which is easier to design:
an accounting package or an operating system?"
"An operating system," replied the programmer.
The warlord uttered an exclamation of disbelief. "Surely an
accounting package is trivial next to the complexity of an operating
system," he said.
"Not so," said the programmer, "when designing an accounting package,
the programmer operates as a mediator between people having different ideas:
how it must operate, how its reports must appear, and how it must conform to
the tax laws. By contrast, an operating system is not limited my outside
appearances. When designing an operating system, the programmer seeks the
simplest harmony between machine and ideas. This is why an operating system
is easier to design."
The warlord of Wu nodded and smiled. "That is all good and well, but
which is easier to debug?"
The programmer made no reply.
-- Geoffrey James, "The Tao of Programming"
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