Slashdot Mirror
British Telecom Pushes Universal ID Check System
miladus writes "URU (You Are You) is a new ID verification scheme from BT designed to
allow government and businesses to confirm identities on the net. The BBC has a full report on how, according to BT officials, 'URU will be a major ingredient in transforming and joining up government... and how it will
become ubiquitous for citizens, businesses, etc.'. Apparently, URU complies with European privacy laws."
The delay on the URU check killed me.
We are Borg
Looks like Oracle bought the U.K.
In phase one, the only details that will be entered are name, address and Meter Point Asset Number
TK-421! Why aren't you at you post?
"I only speak the truth"
Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
Nothing I would want more than a porn site to have my phone number, and therefore access to my name and address.
Or any kind of site for that matter.
You say you want a revolution....
Michael, I'm wondering, do you have a driver's license, credit card, any sort of ID, or do you not, cause that would allow "the man" access to your "private personal information?"
How does this fit in with the Liberty Alliance / Passport authentication schemes? Is this yet another one developers will have to choose between, or this limited to UK systems? What's the point of using a single login system if there are a 1,000 such systems users have to register with and log into?
to the new Big Brother era.
How long before everyong revolts?
This system is the internet version of one that has been out for a long time overthere. They used numerical IDs for the people, the most famous one being 007 James Bond.
"There is no teacher but the enemy."-Mazer Rackham
Does the URU fulfill American privacy laws? (not that it matters much anymore after the USA PATRIOT Act...)
Just look at The President's Analyst from 1967.
Google doesn't index user sigs, so stop trying to "Google Bomb" with them.
Will URU work with M$ Passport/.net
"In phase one, the only details that will be entered are name, address and Meter Point Asset Number - the number in the corner of every household electricity bill which is unique to that property" - bbc.co.uk
Time to fire up the genny then..
http://www.reeb.freeserve.co.uk
That is a step in the right direction, but does anyone see a problem with that solution? If my identity has been compromised, then maybe my e-mail is also compromised...
Very popular slashdot journal for adul
Let me just remind you that democracy originated in ancient Greece. Wait a minute, weren't the first immigrants to America from all over Europe? I don't know what to say...we're all brothers & sisters in the end.
The only thing that would make this scheme different that current identification methods is the automatic notification (by email) any time the URU identity is used:
It... will e-mail them every time their ID is requestedI suspect that someone's URU ID could be misused by someone else as easily as any other ID, but at least you would find out about such misuse before the cops/creditors come pounding on your door.
I'm tired of all of these language variants. "URU" "TVMusic4U" etc. etc., it's all over the language.
:\
I'm tired of pop culture. Stop the planet, I want off.
http://www.googlism.com/when_is/u/uru/
Worst. Sig. Ever.
Modest doubt is called the beacon of the wise. - William Shakespeare
If they had kept the REAL acronym, it would have made people happy.
You Are You > YAY!!
Best Windows Freeware
And within a year you will have to use it to authenticate with your ISP's proxy server.. (And no direct connection to the internet).
The possibilities are endless for abuse ......
echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln80~Psnlbx]16isb572CCB9AE9DB03273snlbxq' |dc
IMI. Y?
AFAIK, Britain has no mandatory ID card. This sounds weird to a lot of European people, since most European countries require every citizen to have a government-issued personal identity card which identifies them uniquely (a passport is generally accepted as an alternative). Maybe Britain is just thinking about skipping the physical step completely and going directly to the electronic ID stage. This would certainly make sense, since they are probably going to decide to create a mandatory ID anyway.
My understanding is that the British have Experian like credit history databases (which are not catalogued by a universal identification number, like the SSN, which I believe is the failure point of the US style databases.) So I'm not sure where this fits in...the article seems to imply it's for online transactions?
The URU proposal has some interesting elements:
*(it appears) that inclusion in the database would be voluntary, per European and British data privacy laws
*the "check number" is essentially the electrical meter on your house. meaning that, at least in some way, the number can be changed, at least by you moving elsewhere. furthermore, there is no reason why anyone else would have that number, theoretically. it's a semi-constant.
*you are automagically notified when someone performs a check, and i suspect that checks can only be performed when the person authorizes them.
While the current British government is a bit fixed on putting an "entitlement card" together which will essentially be the you can't live without it national ID card, this proposal is vaguely interesting to me. I need more info to run it through a security model though.
BT and the UK government both well know for their liberalism and acountability think it's a good idea for people to have a number.
Maybe, if that happens, the Government can pay me the £1,500 they've overtaxed me.
and BT can send me details of how to cancel a service I havn't used for 9 months. (instead of the 'we are unable to reply from this address' email).
Hey, what happens if I don't get a number? can I sell crack and get away with it?
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
what does my electric asset number have to do with my unique ID? Whay if three of the george foreman kids live in the same apartment? then they all get the same id?
what if you move a lot? does your number change every time?
Wouldn't something a little more unique and static be of more use?
The article seemed to suggest that an ID number used by the power company would be used as a sort of "universal id", but didn't offer any details as to how this would work (and why it would offer any more protection than any other kind of identifier). What's to keep someone from digging through somebody's garbage to obtain their ID from their electric bill? And what about people who don't have their own electric accounts?
It seems to me that with all the nifty encryption technology now available, Big Brother attempts like this could do a better job of preventing fraud than just coming up with another global id scheme.
Anybody have any pointers to more detailed descriptions of this plan?
This sounds a lot like the idea of attaching your home address to your keychain, so honest people can mail you your keys if you lose them.
Too bad most people aren't honest.
0110100100100000011000010110110100100000011000100
But what happened to Greece? And why were those people in such a hurry to leave Europe?
According to BT the system complies with data privacy laws and will not disclose any information about the person to the company checking ID. Nice privacy laws....
Mind you, Athenian democracy only gave a voice to the men with money. Slaves, women, and youth had no say in the government. Now, if I have to put up with any kind of government, I'd prefer the republic governing the US while Thomas Jefferson was president. Democracy these days is just a fancy name for mob rule. I prefer rule of law.
I refuse to have anything to do with something spawned from the so-called vocabulary of an SMS user.
Will the email you get be just as undecipherable and irritating?
Hokey statistics and ancient misconceptions are no match for a good thought in your head, kid!
Read Lysistrata lately? Women withold sex from the men till they mend thier warmongering ways. It has freedom, Greece, and buggery all in one package.
You say you want a revolution....
from dictionary.com:
ubiquitous Audio pronunciation of ubiquitous ( P ) Pronunciation Key (y-bkw-ts)
adj.
Being or seeming to be everywhere at the same time; omnipresent: "plodded through the shadows fruitlessly like an ubiquitous spook" (Joseph Heller).
Is this something you really want your government to be?
I want to know where the people in the governmant are at all times.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
They will include RFID tags to "help" you in case of emergency or track criminals (only :-) cough cough ).
Also, they will include digital representation of your DNA for easy use by insurance companies, Big Brother, etc.
They will say that if you are honest you have nothing to hide. Therefore, if you refuse it then you MUST be a criminal. You aren't a GOOD citizen.
How long before we are all just one big communist/socialist utopia who will tell you when and where you can eat, drink, sleep and pee?
And you can forget the "revolt" because by then we will have had our guns taken by force.
America the last stronghold for true freedom and democracy willbe dragged down into the mud by those who want to destroy us unless we act now by standing up for our rights and defend our freedoms from our own government.
A wise man once said, "Power corrupts". We see that that is indeed true.
Name could be confused with the upcoming game from Cyan, which sounds like sort of a cross between Myst and EverQuest.
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Well, they already seems to be tracking every property in the UK, as the article states:
the only details that will be entered are name, address and Meter Point Asset Number - the number in the corner of every household electricity bill which is unique to that property
But then they go and cause more distrust of the program, by stating of these numbers:
It could also become a pre-requisite of any universal ID card
And lastly, I feel we've all eard this one before:
It is a pro-active way to protect your identity
Well, ok, one more, but only because it sounds funny out of context:
we need mega-systems
Work sucked, until it became unemployment, when it became slightly more tolerable. -Tet
"And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." Revelation 13:16-17, KJV
"Love is a familiar; Love is a devil: there is no evil angel but Love." --William Shakespeare ('Love's Labors Lost')
remember what they did with hyperlinks
Looks like the Us has Total Information Awareness and the UK has total intrusiveness
This looks like just another step in the abolishment of privacy. It's a mad mad mad mad world...
SCO to Hell
and great guys wait for more equitable laws.
Passive resistance in it's most violent form.
"you are you?"
;-)
"u are you" more like
http://www.reeb.freeserve.co.uk
Butthead sez: "Huhuhuhuh... Freedumb. Grease. Buggery. Package. Huhuhuhuhuh..."
Wouldn't 'RUU' be a better ancronym for an ID system? I guess it loses its graphics designer-friendly symmetry then, though.
I'm convinced that you can't get a peice of identity-based legistlation passed these days unless it make a cute acronym in English. What do the Italians, Spanish, or Germans think URU means?
...about the freedom grease buggery package.
The open source version: GURU
This space for rent, inquire within.
Think of it this way:
Would-be airline passenger: I want to buy a ticket.
Airline employee: Cash or credit?
Would-be Airline Passenger: Credit.
Airline employee: Let me check this against your ID number to verify identity... (for red non-resident 'terrorist' flags, of course)
Would-be airline passenger: Oke, Cash.
Airline employee: SECURITY!!!!
Of course, this is only one scenario. But the point is: it proves residency, at least, if all the members of the household are listed as 'associate household members' in the database. This raises lots of questions of course (like, who the heck would do this voluntarily?) but it's a step towards that Total Information Awareness mess we've been facing here in the states...
"I'd say 'Have a good time,' but arson is still illegal.
Don't forget that journalists regularly get call information of celebrities from BT, same with private investigators.
They get caught occasionally but what about the times they don't.
A security token is only as trustworthy as its issuer.
Bush and Blair ate my sig!
Does this officially make them part of Oceania?
And that, in a nutshell, is why america's stock has fallen so badly internationally. Keep those ideas in mind when you realize that your government couldn't get 4 countries to agree to a bake sale without offering 70 billion in subsidies.
It's a shame that America is getting more like that every day.
Here in the US, "diving" through one's trash to glom semi-precious information about them is a common identify-theft method.
If the Meter ID of every BT customer is on their bill, one only needs there name and address (probably on the same bill!) to act on their behalf.
This seems to fly in the face of how any private key system would work. If it is a public key, what are the channels that ensure nobody else can use such an identity?
I predict this will go up in flames. I see the electric bills of past residents of apartments all the time, simply floating into mailboxes long after they've left. If BT still thinks they live there, then "IMU" when I use this info.
Forgive me if this opinion results from ignorance of BT magical "meter id" number. But nevertheless, private passwords exist for a reason. None of the source info here seems quite secure.
mug
Democracy (this form of) in north america for the most part has failed.
When 65% of the voting population isn't voting due to mono-politics you can honestly say it has failed. If arab populations buy into it, it's our countries corporate sanctions that will be lifted and the business elite will enlarge thier coffers at our countries finacial credit expense. If our *leaders* succeed in pushing this form of democracy, there is only betrayal for the majority of arabs because this fiction cannot be maintained for long.
I can see obvious problems with this, having had my identity stolen a little in the UK.
2 years ago I had a cheque (check) book and American Express card stolen from the post. They were stolen by either
From that information the thieves now had my full name, bank details and details of a credit card I held (albeit a cancelled cards and cancelled cheques). From this information they purchased mobile phones, billed to me and applied for numerous store cards. I only discovered this when the bills started arriving.
Now, if BT's scheme goes off information available on the Electricity bill (keep in mind there are NUMEROUS electricity suppliers, so numerous databases to tie together), what is to stop someone stealing your electricity bill? Note that the electricy reference is per household, not per person. Now, tie this into the electoral role (which is already sold to marketers, and you can check and query it at your local library, so it's not private) that might almost be adequate.
Except the electoral role is updated once a year. You can actually manage to miss it completly if you move at exactly the wrong time.
Also people can choose to opt out of the data sharing that the electoral role provides (but not the information sharing to the credit agencies).
Lets not forget that BT is a private company, not answerable to anyone except the shareholders. I'm not sure if this is better or worse than the government forcing a scheme through.
I am Emmett Smith.
(Stupid-A$$ lameness filter)
LongTail SSH Brute Force analysis tool is here!
I wonder what the folks at Cyan and Ubisoft think about this? They've announced a game named Uru: Online Ages Beyond Myst , for relase in Q4 2003. I wonder who got the trademark first?
All about me
and if I have to explain that to you, then the battle is already lost.
BC
I mean, if the URU is just a number or a short character string, what's the point? I might as well ditch the URU and have a password. I think it may even be better to have a passphrase, because then I can have one for each site I do business with, not to mention I can change it easily if I think someone is on to it.
I'm guessing you have to call the URU organization if you want to change your ID. How do they know it's you on the phone? Can't use the URU, then someone could get yours and change it. You'd be screwed. How about by a credit card number? Name? Address? I need those things to verify myself online now. Name + address + ccn = a new URU. So why not just use the name and address system? Seems kinda silly to me.
One could argue that the point of the URU is to have a way to identify yourself without having to give out your name and address. I suppose that's a valid point and think that's all the ID would be good for. But think about it for a second. What sites need the URU? Online stores banks, and auctions for example. They need the name address, and ccn anyways. What about sites like slashdot? I don't want them to have my URU! I would refuse if they asked me. My username and password is all you need to know about me.. thanks. Oh, slashdot won't use my URU execpt to verify it's me? I wouldn't want my URU to be sent out all over the net for somthing that I'm too crazy about protecting (slashdot login).
I don't know. For the average Joe, it might save some time and password resets. For me... It's just a waste of time. I would rather the man spend all this money on somthing worth while.
I am a viral sig. Please help me spread.
Why do you label this "reactionary bible-thumping?"
For the subset of Slashdot readers who are Christians, this is a relevant comment. For two-thousand years, Christians have had a prophecy regarding the identification of every man, woman and child on this planet. For a Christian, the Mark of the Beast IS intelligent discourse because it is a very real concern.
Personally, I think your slight is more of a reactionary, knee-jerk response showing your anti-Christian bias than the Biblical quote being discussed.
"We're sorry, but the website you're trying to reach has been disconnected."
It's a great play. I was involved in it in college, working tech at the time.
Lysistrata was read around the world Monday as a protest against the war. Sydney Morning Herald
Support FSF: Stop thinking with your wallet, and think with your imagination. (cc/non-commercial)
I go through your garbage and find a elecrtic bill, now I have your name and add. How does it stop me?
I am employed at joe blows video rental bonanza. You come to open an account. How does it stop me?
I fail to see how this is going to work. Please someone explain how any of this is secret?
DRM? No thanks, I'll just get it somewhere else...
"ICQ" was clever. "URU" is not.
The shareholder is always right.
No, they've *always* been part of Oceania.
The fact that the AC posted going to church as a solution was simply a nice segue.
My point is a valid one, not a troll. If I was trolling, I'd post AC.
Murphy was an optimist.
I mean, really. Someone learns to spoof the system, and once again it only works on law-abiding citizens, right?
n/t
One more step on the way to all of us becoming R.U.R's.
I know :-)
You say you want a revolution....
http://www.chaum.com/articles/Security_Wthout_Iden tification.htm
security without identification is quite an interesting article and should be considered before heading into any ID scheme.
I am still...awesome!
Famous for delaying internet takeup by many years, holding back ISDN when it was standard in many countries, holding back ADSL, holding back the local loop from competition, and still managing to make a debt mountain that puts many countries to shame.
and now it comes up with a useless idea, trying to prove it really isn't staffed with backward idiots who date back from the old BPO (British Post Office).
Yes BT, we love them!
That's philosophically debatable...
if I remember right, when John wrote Revelations (and anything that Paul wrote too, for that matter), the widespread belief was that THE END would come during their lifetimes, not anything set 2000 some years into the future.
There is a company in the US that deals with biometric products. The company name is DigitalPersona and their product is called U.r.U. Weird.
The Norse thunder god Thor has filed a trademark infrigement lawsuit against British Telecom.
buggery = anal sex, which nothing to do with aristophanes' play
rogering = hetero sex
Note these terms are exclusive to the british isles
*GASP* going to church oughta make it easier to get access to kiddie porn at least. Get in good with your pastor/minister/priest :)
If you are searching for a peace prize I'd suggest the nobel approach...
http://www.nobel.se/
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
If that's true, then what you have is not the internet. It's more like some kind of corperate advert browser. All governments can do to cyberspace is destroy it.
Am I, in the US, going to need this silly number to read BBC News or buy something from them? S-T-U-P-I-D.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
The UK has a number of services to aid you in switching your energy supplier - these are often online services such as uswitch or saveonyourbills (and you can find even more at switchwithwhich).
So you get a name and address - can do that from the phone book, or use other means.
You create yourself a throwaway email account - ideally based somewhere that would be a complete pain to req any log data from. Maybe you also ensure theres a little more masking here - like covering up your web access.
Then go to a switch web site, enter the property details you are interested in - don't need the right name at present, just the address (postcode and house number - say SW1A2AA, number 10), and set them up for a new energy supplier - theres basically bugger all checking on this at the early stages.
You will then get from the switch website, or sent by email (thats why you need the throwaway account), confirmation of the details to change your electricity supply to the new supplier, and guess what, this includes the electricity meter reference number....
So there you are, name, address, meter reference, their identity is yours for the taking, without all that dumpster diving stuff. Is this neat or what! Whats more, its going to be very hard to get the meter reference changed.
>In phase one, the only details that will be entered are name, address and Meter Point Asset >Number - the number in the corner of every household electricity bill which is unique to that property.
This is excellent idea except for a few minor details. It is possible for tenants in a property to share the same the same meter. A couple of cases come to mind: students sharing flats, or a summer student renting a room in a family home.
Do you really want someone with a short tenancy
agreement to have access to a security code.
If one of these numbers is used in fraud, it would be impossible to have the number changed.
What happens if the meter has to be replaced. Do you have to inform BT of this change?
Why on earth do they need to use meter numbers for. Using hashed National Survey map coordinates would seem to be far more practical.
This idea only seems to increase the chances of increasing the chance of mail theft.
As a member of the IETF for PKI-X, I can tell you that this whole thing is about to sweep the world. It all operates off Public Key Infrastructure. Essentially, you get a cert from the government that they can use to identify you. While there are a lot of legitamate uses, I think that all forms of government should be treated with a certain amount of paranoia.
How much more damage would Hitler have done if he had computerized access to everyone's banking records and been able to track every transaction? How about identification papers, travel permits, work passes, etc. that are signed with virtually unbreakable encryption? Let's see if that still makes you feel warm and fuzzy about your government knowing who you are when you send email, while your are surfing, and what you do when you are on line.
Queen BHDGary secures my bank
Even to an atheist, the Bible can still be relevant. Just treat it as any other classic work of fiction, like the work of Shakespeare or Orwell. Good stories can retain their relevance hundreds of years after they're written, not because they're literally true, but because they're good metaphors.
I haven't studied Bile. I have, however, studied mucus, semen, and occasionally sour mild...
I have lived and worked in the UK for many years.
BT are a company I would never deal with in the future. They will lose your account details, they will lie to you and over charge you.
Two years ago they were charging £10,000 for a 128k leased line when their competitors were charging half that.
They at present run a monopoly and abuse their customers and competitors.
Slashdot Beta should die a painful death.
No offense to my English brothers, but every english computer product of the last half century has been a brilliant invention marred by lack of finish or marketing.
This, unfortunately is much different in that it isn't even a good idea.
Sorry.
There are a lot more Christians than privacy-aware people.
If you want to convince Joe Average that privacy compromising is bad, comparing universal IDs to "the number of the name of the beast" may be just the ticket.
Anyone knows any preacher that we can be converted to the cause?
Your amazingly incomprehensible post has been translated by babelfish technology to the following rant:
I'm 18 years old and pissed off. I don't have a good reason to be pissed off...after all dad sent me to school, me mum takes care of me on fall and winter holiday, and overall, I have a lifestyle that would make a 15th century minor monarch envious.
Against that backdrop I rail about arab concerns because (a) My mom's father is 1/4 arab (b) I'm eighteen, its my job to act pissed off.
(c) Babelfish corporation. Certain rights reserved, particularly those rights that would piss you off the most.
Looks like the women are already withdrawing their favours!
Just found a much better link
The problem with ID systems are that the more "uncrackable" they are, the more they are trusted. The more they are trusted, the harder it is to make things right when people circumvent those ID systems. Look at DNA evidence. Im sure that some day, some murderer is going to figure out how to plant somone elses DNA on a crime scene, thus implicating the other person. DNA= Guilt in the eyes of todays courts. The safest ID system is a minmally secure one. That way, people are naturally suspicious of an ID even if it appears to be genuine. Mistrust of ID's prevents abuse more than a so called "bulletproof" ID
We will definatly benefit from this BT system. I see it now, having a profile for every single person that goes on the net in the next 10 years. This is not the only sign of government and corporations trying to take away what ever privacy we might have left. This is just going to drag on for some time and we will have to make a decision if we want to be involved in such a system. I see benefits from this system but I also see how someone could majorly abuse this. We don't need a profile of everyone that goes on the net, what's the problem with just letting it run how it is. Well the problem is not enough money is being made and not enough lives have been taken over. I am all against this BT initiative, there just shouldn't be a database that contains profiles of a large population of people. Although there are already large profiling databases, we don't need anymore that want to take what they can grab.
Speaking as a married man of over 15 years, believe me, its not big deal for our wives to withhold sex.
In fact, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference if I wanted to.
Laugh at me, but my life will be yours in 20 years.
Laugh little man. laugh.
and abused. EVERY system.
Just give the black hats a good look at it and it's all but over with.
Besides, what about the people that do not want to be cogs in the unholy beast/machine? When you are FORCED to take and use a number then you are no longer the owner of your soul.
A number of years ago I saw a documentary about some (savage) natives somewhere who were deathly afraid of the cameras of the explorers. They BELIEVED that if someone took their picture that they were stealing thier souls.
You know, maybe they were right....
IBU ;-)
no sig, no plan, no clue
Where the heck does it say anything in the UBU about a mark on the forehead or hand? Shouldn't the events in question at least fit the friggin prophesy before bringing it up?
Here comes the Mark of the Beast.
(Revelation 13:16-18)
The Bible was very right.
I doubt this system would have helped Derek Bond with the FBI. Sykes faked his passport and Sykes would have faked this new number too. Why is it that people think electronic cures all?
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
Your almost as amazingly incomprehensible post has been translated as follows:
Well fuck you. Just because I'm 18 and I live with my parents, why does that make my opinion less valid?
[rest is incomprehensible; a reasonable expection it is the equivalent of shuffling feet, looking down and mumbling "umm ummm ummm"]
(c) 2003 The Babelfish company, St. Louis, MO.
FYI, BT is a large customer of Amdocs. If you are wondering about the relationship here, do a search on google for "amdocs espionage" Not saying it is true (actually, it is, but....)
Pfft...And all this time I thought BT was different from ther other label-whore musicians.
If the acronym was A/S/L, they'd need to put on extra servers just to keep up with the subscriptions.
OTOH, 90% of the population would then be described as 16 yo bisexual females.
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
Finally, I'd like to remind you that the personal ID number for computers was already here once - remember that unique ID# embeded in Pentium III chips? The one that intel later released a patch for to disable (which almost nobody did)? Well, that's still here, and people are quiet about whether the same system is used in Pentium IV or not...
This is pure FUD. It's not still here, is was shot down in flames before it got running. They first wanted it on, then controlable in software, but in the end it was removed completely. You may read more about it here. It has been a taboo issue since then, obviously noone at Intel wants to remind people of their past mistakes.
Then again, most computers do have what is usually a unique identifier, the network address MAC. You can usually change this if you like, but very few people care. So if you have the MAC, you can be reasonably sure it's the same computer, particularly those where the NIC is part of the motherboard.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
I found this link on BT's web site http://www.btplc.com/Mediacentre/Agencynewsrelease s/2003/an0327.htm
It looks like all they're doing is pushing a web service to make sure that people's names match up with thier addresses, which is something companies already check for (any time you apply for credit they check your name and address against the electoral register). I would assume that Meter Point Asset Numbers come into it because a) only EU citizens can be on the register and b) the electricity company probably know you've moved in before the electoral register know. As an example, one of my friends had trouble buying an oven a couple of days after he had just moved into a new place because he failed the electoral register check (as he wasn't on the electoral regiter where he had just moved into and he had moved about a bit over the previous year)- had Comet been able to verify he was who he was via the the M-PAN (as he had electricty) he might have had an easier time.
I think the only thing new here is that BT are offering a Web Service instead of whatever method companies currently use to do such checks (with a few enhancements to the current system). From an invasion of privacy issue it's no different than what people are currently subjected to, though I would assume that if it becomes easier and cheaper to do than it might happen more frequently.
Tk
At some point, somewhere, the entire internet will be found to be illegal.
And again with the vigilante moderator on crack.. it seems there's always someone, who comes by a day or so late, and shows his ass by modding stuff down at random.
Having fun, poostabber? Great, now sod off.
Hokey statistics and ancient misconceptions are no match for a good thought in your head, kid!
Actually, I'm becoming more and more convinced that no few countries would refuse the bake sale just to see if they can get us to offer more... while hoping we don't decide it's more to our interest to take our cake and cookies elsewhere.
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
Unfortunatley, the labour party are stuborrn gits who really dont like listening to the public much (e.g. see War on Iraq), so it doesnt suprise me they are using continue to use subterfuge as a battering ram to enstate their "entitlement card".
You said:
"I still dont [sic] believe in true evolution. Too many holes (like, where's the link from the apes to humans?)"
If your looking for a "link" between apes and humans, you'll never find one. Not even anthropologists claim a linkage between apes and humans. That's a common misconception that lay people have.
An aspect of evolutionary theory, that primarily creationists, misunderstand or misrepresent is the belief that modern humans some how "evolved" from apes (or in some cases monkeys). I recall seeing bumper stickers and t-shirts proclaim that "Darwin isn't going to make a monkey out of me." or something to that effect.
Modern evolutionary theory holds that modern complicated life evolved from simpler forms of life a long time (we are talking millions or years here) ago. At some point in time, life formed. Whether it was random chance, or Godly design is immaterial to evolution. Over time, changes were introduced to a species. As a result of these changes individual organisms were either more or less likely to survive to pass on their genes. Another means to change was the occurrence of spontaneous mutations in an individual. It provided a better chance of survival than those that didn't have the mutation, over time most of the population would exhibit that mutation. If it made the individual less likely to survive, say being born without lungs, then the individual died taking the change with them. Finally, there could be environmental factors that would lead to evolution. Large scale climatic change, mass extinctions, etc. Those species that were well adapted to flourish in the old environment may have been ill suited for the new. Those that were ill suited for the old, may be well suited to the new and now flourish. That's the ten cent tour of evolution.
Now, back to your original quandary, the "link" between apes and humans. Humans and apes aren't related linearly they are related horizontally. If you go back far enough there was probably a single primate species, further back a single mammalian species, even further back a single vertebrate species, etc.
Modern humans are - hominids, primates, mammals, vertebrates, etc., etc.
Modern apes (say gorillas) are primates, mammals, vertebrates, etc. etc,
Sure they are both primates, but that's like saying your house cat and Bengal tigers are both felines. You wouldn't be looking for the missing link between your tabby and tigers.
It's all rather complicated and rather fascinating....
I hope that this helps.
Just my $0.02 (Canadian, before taxes)
Of course you realize it is a violation of federal law for anyone other than the Social Security Administration to use you SSN.
My college (Drexel) back in the 90's had to go through and re-issue everyone a new Student ID number after a lawsuit. You will also note that your local DMV now issues its own number instead of your SSN.
My university had to switch too. It is too bad some had not switched!
Of course, this news broke after your post but if what you say is true, UT will be in it deep with the Feds...
Wait, I think people are missing the important thing here. What do martian women look like? I mean, do you have any pictures or anything?