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BSA IDC FUD
truthsearch writes "News.com.com is reporting that a 'study, commissioned by the BSA and conducted by IDC, found that in general, nations with the lowest piracy rates had the largest IT sectors. The study, which examined 57 countries, predicted that a 10-point reduction in the rate of piracy over four years could generate 1.5 million jobs and $64 billion taxes worldwide.' The BSA, er... Microsoft, will use this study to convince governments to crack down on piracy. 'Overall, the countries that have the poorest record of IP rights have slower rates of IT growth,' BSA CEO Robert Holleyman said. Oh, and the countries with the most oppression have had the slowest IT growth, but that can't be the cause, nah."
I know someone that was audited by the BSA and decided to fight it.
Basically they countered by stating they wanted full disclosure of
who reported them so as to determine the validity of the claim prior
to wasting internal resources and dollars. They also argued that
the reporting tools are a violation of privacy. Yes, they expected
them to place some software on their network which scans their
entire network not to mention each machine's registry. Third, they
also argued that even if they were in violation of license, the
license is between them and the vendor (after all, the license does
not allow for the BSA as having legal proxy interests) and unless
the vendor in questions decides that they'd like to personally
persue the issue, the BSA does not have legal authority or the
legal grounds to persue the action. Furthermore, they argued that
even if something odd was discovered and they lost, only the
government has the right to impose fines on legal matters as such
and they would be within their legal rights to simply purchase
any outstanding licenses or settle directly with the vendor in
question and completely dismiss the BSA altogether thereby
eliminating the need to pay any fines or added fees.
In related news, it was revealed that 20% of reckless drivers smoked marijuana. (Of course, so does 20% of the general population;).
Lies, damned lies, and statistics. Truer words were never spoken...
Galileo: "The Earth revolves around the Sun!"
Score: -1 100% Flamebait
It's based on growth. Countries with alot of IT already know how to steal overpriced software.
The Study..
echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln80~Psnlbx]16isb572CCB9AE9DB03273snlbxq' |dc
You know you are a geek when you understand a headline of all these acronyms... :\
it pays who? me? the goverment, dont think so...
In summary, the headline needs more TLAs to confuse the FBI, CIA, DHS, NSA, DEA, and ATF!
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
Thats a laugh, countries like India China have very high percentage of piracy (some stats put it above 90 %) yet have a burgeoning software industry. Albeit due to offshore development work in most parts.
...the BSA pointed out that countries with more relaxed Intellectual Property laws had higher child mortality rates. "The inference is clear", BSA CEO Robert Holleyman said, "Piracy kills babies".
The press release is in misleading language. Translated into english:
Countries should help us exploit our patents and trademarks to maintain monopoly. Our "unbiased" study confirms that this will help your economy.
I didn't know the boy scouts of america were cracking down on piracy! If they weren't always coming to my door with thier fundraisers, I'd have some money to buy some legal software!
We're only gonna die from our own arrogance, that's why we might as well take our time...
So what's the easiest way to dramatically reduce piracy: use open-source software. So if everybody switches to open-source, it'll be good the the industry. So I suggest the BSA starts advocating OSS more. After all, that's good for the industry :)
Opus: the Swiss army knife of audio codec
"When people are using software but they're using a pirated version, they're not paying the government the tax revenues it should be receiving," Holleyman said.
Wonder how our elected representatives are going to take this. Obviously they're not going to consider that people who wouldn't (couldn't afford to) buy the software in the first place would be dodging taxes. Not to mention of course the amount of PR various BSA members have received for "leaked" beta versions of software...
Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think. -Ayn Rand
Apparently, it does!
-*{War is Peace}*-
Damn.....if thats a big issue with how piracy is wrong, I'm free and clear since I don't pay any sales tax anyway in the state I'm in (Delaware)......whew! my conscious is CLEARED!
Time to buy another spindle of CDRs!
Sehr geehrter Toilettenbenutzer!
and here... it is a good read.
The way I figure it, the nations with the SMALLEST IT sectors would have the least piracy. Think about it: countries like Sudan and Nigeria... who's gonna be pirating Windows XP when they don't have a computer to run it on?
Another classic example of confusing correlation with causality. Just because there is a correlation between the two, doesn't mean that one *causes* the other. They could just as easily *both* be affected by a third variable (average income? average levels of education? percentage of computer-using businesses?)
This is the kind of thing that gives statistics a bad name.
Here's another correlation distortion. People in the mid 1800's had an average lifespan of what? 45 years? Today's average lifespan is like 70 or something. Now, choose your data sets that way, and compare life expectancy of those people who have personal computers, and those that didn't (those from the 1800's). You'll find a *strong* correlation between PC use and life expectancy.
But it's clearly meaningless. The key factor here is obviously availability of health care. You can use this same trick to "prove" relationship between almost anything.
This study is clearly junk.
...putting cause and effect the wrong way round. In other news:
* People sneezing more likely to catch cold.
* Companies with fewer security concerns more likely to use Linux.
* People who buy Ferrari's are more likely to be rich.
Dave
I write a blog now, you should be afraid.
Tell the greedy politicians that they get something out of doing their job, which is supposed to be enforcing the law. $64B in taxes? That's a **great** way to ensure that jack-booted thugs with M-16s, AK-47s, MP5s or Styr-Augs (depending on the PD) bust down as many doors as possible to make sure that $64B is protected. That's of course assuming that eliminating piracy won't damage or destroy other sectors of the economy. People, $64B is ~$24B more than we spend on the insane WoD. I know that will get spread over many countries, but that's still a damn big incentive even if it's only an extra $5B to the general fund.
Imagine Palladium getting mandated to make this possible. No Macintosh anymore or similar platforms. Probably no WordPerfect either as it will cost Corel too much to get certified. Linux? Bye bye SuSE, RedHat, Mandrake, et al. It will be an industry dominated by a handful of giants. Our spineless, ignorant politicians have long ago forgotten that it is small and medium-sized business, not the giants, that run most of the economy. If those go under, unemployment will skyrocket, both parties will have egg on their faces and knowing America these days, we won't have a third party gaining power, we'll have 2 party weasles giving people heaping buckets full of Socialism.
Click here or a puppy gets stomped!
Perhaps IT sectors are smaller in piracy laden countries is because countries with good IT sectors don't NEED piracy to pay their IT bills. By that I mean, if you can support a good IT sector, you don't need pirated software to work.
That's the problem with statistics. This could be a complementary or parallel development. All statistics can show is how numbers move together. I can practically guarantee that there are educational, social, and political conditions in the sample set that would seriously weaken the validity of the conclusions drawn by the BSA.
If you think you can hurt me again, you're wrong. I left my heart in my other pants.
(English: After this, therefore because of this.)
How can anyone conclude anything from this? You could say: "High piracy results in a weak IT sector" or you could say "A strong IT sector results in low piracy"
Both are completely valid conclusions to draw, and neither means anything in a void.
Correlation, meet causation.
----------------- "I have a bone to pick, and a few to break." - Refused -------------------
After all, that's good for the industry :)
;)
Unless you actually want to make money.
"Not knowing when the dawn will come, I open every door." - Emily Dickinson
FYI, the BSA, AKA "guys we don't like", are spreading FUD using $$$ and buying out the IDC, an industry analyst that government organizations such as the CIA, the FBI, the NSA, the DOD, the DOJ, TIPS, the WTO, and perhaps even more will all listen to and as such we will be forced to respond by supporting groups such as the ACLU and the EFF in the fight to maintain our civil rights while also hoping that we're not drafted the SSS and also that the SSA holds together so we can all retire someday.
Or something.
If piracy is high, their IT sector must be low
If an IT sector is low it must be a developing country
If it's a developing country then piracy will be high
thus...
If piracy is high, we impose trade sanctions
If trade sanctions are imposed, a developing country's economy will suffer
If people can't make enough money to buy software because their economy suffers they will not pirate software because they have learned their lesson.
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue."
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
That it was mandatory for all Journalists to take a minimum course in physics, statistics, biology, logic and history.
Causation and corelation are not the same thing.
Countries with a large IT industry tend to be highly developed, do not tend to have large organized crime, and tend to have stricter piracy laws. These all help keep piracy down.
This does not imply however that increasing piracy laws will increase the IT industry.
A=>B does not mean B=>A
It's like saying that countries with sea-access tend to have navy's, so if a country gets a navy it will have sea access.
It is a logical falicy.
just = (My)Opinion.toCents();
Also, tithing 10% of your monies to our ministry (the Church of BSA) will return your monies tenfold. The Lord Bill has said so. So let it be written, so let it be done.
So if everyone goes out and immediately spends all the money they have, many companies will see their profits increase.
That is all.
----------
Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
I am without speech! Get out!!!
(Seinfeld impression)
~~~Please pass the salt, I hate unsalted MD5s
this it is a good read.
What if C leads to B? What if another condition A leads to both B and C?
The article doesn't say a damn thing about that. They just drew the conclusion that supports their agenda.
Once again somebody has decided to confuse cause and effect. Here's what the article says:
in general, nations with the lowest piracy rates had the largest IT sectors, as measured as a share of the countries' gross domestic product(GDP)
My take:
in general, nations with higher rates of piracy spend less of their GDP on software.
Gosh, what a suprise. I never would have guessed. I wonder what they'll think of next. I supose they'll tell us that people who buy cars instead of stealing them have larger "automotive spending sectors". Which isn't to say that copyright violations are OK. But to tell a country that sending more of their GDP overseas to the US will help their local IT economy is just a bunch of crap IMHO.
1) Make stuff
2) ??
3) Crack down on pirates
4) Profit!!!!!!
"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
I'm glad you put it that way. I'd LOVE to cause mass unemployment of A&R men.
Also, those of us with real programming credits don't need cluebies like you "sticking up" for us.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
"The organization estimates that 40 percent of all software programs worldwide are pirated"
Is this?
A: Of all the software installed 40% is Warez
B: 40% of titles have been turned into Warez
I think that they mean A but I only find B to be believable.
nations that have more IT will have more IT. if there is more IT, there are more hackers, and thus more people defending networks against hackers. oh wait, microsoft makes hackers obsolete. everything is okay. nevermind
As a representative from the BSA making my first visit to Slashdot, let me say, thanks for all the insightful commentary on our study! We will be sure to retract it and point out to your elected representatives that correlation does not imply causality. We will then dismantle our organization and all live together in a utopia filled with puppy dogs, sunny days, and Richard Stallman.
That countries with high piracy rates were much more likely to be populated by people of color.
"Without immediate action to stop the spread of piracy, American citizen's will soon find their skin turning darker and darker," said BSA Spokeman Bubba Nalk. "We can already see the effects of software piracy on college campuses, as file swapping continues to turn white students into asians and even black students, as evidenced by the increased enrollment of students of color."
Mr. Nalk had no comment on whether software piracy also caused male college athletes to turn into women.
paintball
"The BSA said that reducing software piracy could speed the growth of the IT industry, which in turn could create jobs and bolster weak economies."
In my opinion this phrase should be :
"growth of IT industry could reduce the software piracy" , because the piracy is promoted by poverty, and a lack of culture. This two causes cannot be eliminated by reducing piracy , they are reduced with education in IT and an Industry (JOBS) in IT.
"We all know Linux is great...it does infinite loops in 5 seconds." -- Linus
These numbers make it clear that countries investing in Free Software will have a clear competitive advantage when it comes to their IT sectors.
Seriously. It is no secret that the great majority of Windows systems deployed all around the western (and the rest of the) world are pirate copies. There is no incentive for a specific company to switch to linux servers from windows servers when the linux solution will cost much more than the windows one.
The BSA was pleased to announce that after conducting a thurough audit of Michael Jackson's home and production company offices that all of his software had the approrpriate licenses, and in many cases, Mr. Jackson had several more licenses than were required for the software he was using.
"We're pleased to have Mr. Jackson's support in combating the numerous negative effects of software piracy," said BSA spokesman Bubba Nalk.
paintball
I started my own business recently. Not two weeks after I submitted the paperwork for a state business license, I received a mailing from the BSA that encouraged me to volunteer for an audit "just to make sure I didn't expose myself to the liability of unlicensed or improperly licensed software."
Uh huh. Riiiiiight. Seems that the state gub'ment sold a mailing list to these jackbooted thugs. You gimme any of that juris-my-diction crap, you can cram it up your ass.
The news.com.com.com story is quoting and summarizing, but not stating any inferred conclusions (or the fact that the study gives no conclusions). It's the laziness of the article's author, I believe, not a lack of understanding that makes it appear he/she agrees. I think the article's just trying to get the facts out without disagreeing with anyone about anything.
Developers: We can use your help.
Apple?
.com startup or something?
What are they some bankrupt
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Piracy does very little to harm music, for the very simple reason that the people who make music (musicians) make money from PERFORMANCES, not selling recordings.
The only people piracy hurts is record companies, and I don't know about you, but I don't really care about the growth of record companies.
paintball
Our intelligent designer has never created an animal that we couldn't improve by strapping a bomb to it.
You'll find a *strong* correlation between PC use and life expectancy.
Also, if you do send this to DC, I expect that free PC's will become part of Medicare...;)
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
Worse yet is if the BSA presents it's findings over a complimentary lunch where they refuse to feed you until you've heard their propaganda, er, um, presentation.
If only I could print my proposals to use non-MS products in the latest issue of Dumbass Boss Monthly (this month's feature: Shiny Things As Business Strategy), I'd have no trouble. Graphs, documentation and logic seem to hold no weight.
Do not touch -Willie
Homer: "There's not a single bear in sight--the 'Bear Patrol' is working like a charm".
Lisa: "That's specious reasoning."
Homer: "Thanks, honey."
Lisa: "According to your logic, this rock keeps tigers away".
Homer: "Hmmm. How does it work?"
Lisa: "It doesn't."
Homer: "How so?"
Lisa: "It's just a rock. But I don't see a tiger, anywhere."
Homer: "Lisa," *pulls out wallet* "I want to buy your rock."
----------
Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
..and then clap my hands near the fly, it does not fly away. Therefore, I conclude that removing the fly's wings makes it go deaf.
Of COURSE piracy is rampant in poor countries. It does not follow that if they got a lid on it, then they would suddenly develop a thriving IT industry.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Alternatively - Countries with a large IT sector also have a strong IP lobby, which will often demand stronger laws.
>> in general, nations with the lowest piracy rates >> had the largest IT sectors
I think for people who don't think of software as work that puts bread on the table, software piracy feels less like stealing than it does for people who have had jobs writing software that paid their bills and bought food.
We can't take IDC seriously as a source of analysis or accurate information anymore. Remember this when you see them cited as sources in articles...
IDC is just another public relations tool. Pay them and specify the results, they'll come up with a way to spin or invent "the facts".
I don't think they expected to be caught at this.
Tech Public Policy stuff
> This is the kind of thing that gives statistics a bad name.
I was discussing the value of using flaky numbers with a colleague the other day.
I made the point that people who use flaky numbers convincingly tend to get their way more often than people who fuss over accuracy.
So, whether you want to fuss over the quality of your numbers depends on your objective:
1) do you want to understand what is really happening, (eg. a scientist) , or
2) do you want to convince others to go along with you (eg. a politician).
Value judgements aside, what you ought to do depends on your objective.
The leaders of national governments, even third-world governments, are not stupid. (Note: being corrupt is not the same as being stupid.)
A national leader who listens to the BSA lobby with this will be able to see through it for what it is.
Those leaders may decide to tighten IP laws anyway for a number reasons: kickbacks from American and European industry members, threats of tariffs or sanctions, pressure from internal industry, etc., etc. It's not going to happen because of heavy-handed, rather obvious efforts like this study.
obviously no deficiencies vs. no obvious deficiencies
Major Thesis: Information technology, driven by the software sector, is a proven engine for
economic growth and prosperity. Reducing the rate of software piracy can help jumpstart the
world's stagnant and struggling economies by creating new jobs and business opportunities
that generate spending and new tax revenues.
Hmmmmm... Does anyone else wonder who the target audience of this could be? (Notice the keywords: economies, jobs, business opportunities, spending and taxes.)
The vast majority of software pirated by countries that the BSA cite as having small IT sectors is not domestically produced software. Thus, reducing piracy in these countries increases the revenue of coporations based in other countries (e.g. the US, and EU).
Software retail outlets and other industry "middlemen" in the countries in question will benefit from reduced piracy, but this is small potatoes compared to what BSA-affiliates stand to gain.
Thus, digital piracy in countries that are poor, or have small IT sectors, can be seen as sort of an international "trickle down" economic system. Such piracy provides software and entertainment to people who could not otherwise afford it, at the expense of corporations who, emperically speaking, can. Reducing piracy then becomes welfare "reform" for poor countries, more likely to hurt said countries' IT sectors than help them.
While end users are implied by the above paragraph, I would even include resellers of pirated software into this equation. As seedy as that business is, and as ignoble as the resellers' motives are, there's an undeniable Robin Hood component at work. Remember, these criminals reintroduce their ill-gotten wealth largely into their local economies.
Don't dismiss this as a romantic view of digital piracy; it's not. I mean only to provide much-needed devil's advocacy to the BSA's spurious horse hockey.
My other
OMG. That article was rich. Here is my solution:
All software developer's should instantly stop using any copy protection software and instead just begin a hiring frenzy for their IT staff using the money they save from not developing copy protection, plus the money will be getting from all those pirates now buying their products. Obviously, if we can hire enough people, piracy will disappear. Then we can all just use software on the honor system, with no serial numbers required.
Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
And it pisses me off that none of the media reports point this out, but what makes them think that people would be buying software if they weren't pirating it. Most of the pirated software that I see in use (not by ME...of course...) is Very Unlikely to be replaced with a purchased version were the pirated version not available. And even if it were, the gains by the software industry would be offset by the losses in the beverage industry...where do they think this magic money is going anyway? People's mattresses???
we used to dress up as pirates. And none of us was foreign. What's the question again?
The study doesn't consider the multitude of IT jobs existing due to piracy. Talk about screwing it up.
A simple study would have shown them that often piracy generates more jobs in the piracy field than there were people involved in making the software/media.
But the BSA doesn't want you to know that, do they?
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
In another study I conducted recently, I noticed that states which have the largest ratio of non-mustached to mustached males have the highest average salaries. Therefore if you are male and have a mustache, you should shave your mustache to get richer.
11*43+456^2
This just goes to (yet again) show how the Gatus of Borg icon really strikes a chord of truth!
Do you like Japanese imports?
The study seems to be employing a basic rhetorical falacy. They axtrapolate from their data beyond any level that is supportable by a reasonable person, in order to please their employer (in this case the BSA). Honestly, I can see how craskind down on software piracy can create jobs and expand the IT secor in effected countries. This would naturally occur if companies had to employ auditors for license tracking, maintain a vast number of concurrent-use license servers, and support insecure and broken but highly restrictive software products, each purchased from the one true OS vendor (gag) thereby generating a whole new tax base within that country.
Let us not forget that it was Steve Balmer who said software piracy was a key element of Microsoft's market penetration strategy (in 1994), where in developing countries, users would pirate Microsoft software - since they souldn't affort to license it anyway, then as their productivity rose through use of this high qwuality software, their revenues would grow and by the time the BSA got around to auditing them, they could afford to license the software they had previously pirated.
It's important to note that this has NOTHING to do with Intellectual Property Rights or Privacy but simply enforcement of contract law. IP rights - those that are defensable anyway - relate to issues such as term of copyright, the nature of fair use and the transition of protected works into the public domain. Nobody, as far as I know has ever questioned whether Microsoft owns the rights to it's products, or has exclusive rights to sell their own products (except in a few countries such as China).
As for Privacy, the only way software piracy in any way relates to privacy is in terms of the ability to conceal a crime. I can understand how reduced software piracy can improve an economy, especially if the countries studied had Gross National Products smaller than Microsoft's marketing budget, but the only way that a reduction in privaly could cause a reduction in software piracy is if Microsoft were allowed to prevent users from disabling such Windows features as the automatic license varification within Windows Media Player, or gather additional detailed system and software data as part of Windows Update (which it turns out Microsoft is already doing) or if companies were allowed to hack into the networks of suspected software pirates.
Nothing new here. We already knew that Microsoft wanted to prevent users from disabling the monitoring features that already exist in Windows Media Player and Windows XP, and we've already seen such organizations as the RIAA (in the case of the music industry) propose that they should be able to hack into computers owned by private citizens to confirm that they had not illegally optained copies of un-licenced IP. Overall, I think this was a horendously bad move on the part of the BSA (I still think the boyscouts should sue the business software alliance for use of the acronym, since it's clear that the latter has done serious and irreperable harm to the international perception of the acronym in any context), in that instead of making these findings public, they should have been used in support of a private lobying effort to ease privacy restrictions so Microsoft can look back at us through our computer screens and watch our every move.
-- George Orwell
--Got Lists? | Top 95 Star Wars Line
'Overall, the countries that have the poorest record of IP rights have slower rates of IT growth'
In other news: Countries with slower rates of IT growth have poor records of IP rights, because they don't need them.
Personally, I quite like the principle behind IP laws. Copyright is a very useful system, allowing creators to profit from their works, and also adds teeth to the GPL. I do feel that friends sharing copies with each other is ultimately harmless though.
Speaking as a profesional software developer, I really don't care about small scale piracy. I probably wouldn't have got into programming without a pirated copy of Turbo C++. In fact, it was my vast library of pirated software that got me interested in computers in the first place. If other people do the same, I can't criticise. If the cost of that is lower sales, then that's fair. Typically people will actually buy the software if they think it's worth it, even if a pirated copy is available. I'll make some effort to convince people to buy rather than pirate, but if they don't, then that's my failing, not theirs.
The other aspect is that it is limited to groups of friends. Someone has to buy the original. File sharing networks are more of a problem here, but for the time being, it's too inconvenient to get anything from them. Most people live too far away for a decent connection, and the majority of people download only.
Now, selling pirated software is another matter entirely. Then they actually start competing with me directly, and affecting my company's bottom line. Large scale pirates can and will run off sevceral thousand CDs, and often the buyers will believe that they are genuine. Then it becoems unfair competition.
IANAL, but if the BSA uses the IDC to create FUD about IP rights, shoudn't the EFF get a case together ASAP? ROFLMAO!
Those that cross the BSA, they are the desaparecidos.
They have large IT sector - and huge piracy.
The whole study is a cheat since the
piracy depends mostly on the relation between
salaries and software cost.
When you make $15 an hour - it is OK for you
to pay $100 for soft. When $100 is your monthly
salary - there is no way you can afford $100
soft.
When are we going to see a study of economic losses resulting directly from the implementation of DRM? Congress loves to fund studies -- we need bills not just to require proper CD-labeling, but also officially-sponsored studies of the bad consequences of DRM. EPIC et al. need to start pushing for or funding a study or two like this. I may be atypical (or maybe not), but I have foregone spending literally thousands of dollars over the years because of DRM. I haven't upgraded my VCRs, because the newer ones recognize Macrovision. I haven't yet bought a DVD player. I've never bought a DVD in my life. I have bought a grand total of 3 used CDs over the past 20 years that CDs have been available. I haven't upgraded my computer software at home, just so I can avoid the DRM being built into newer software. Just the very thought of DRM disgusts me and dissuades me from embracing new technologies. I don't have the time to find DRM workarounds, so I just stick with my 20-year old analog equipment. Surely there must be thousands of people like me, at an enormous cost to the economy. ANTI-"PIRACY" hurts the economy, too.
From the study: Countries with higher piracy rates tend to have lower software-to hardware ratios.
Therefore the BSA should encourage its members to distribute free-as-in-beer software in countries with a poor SW to HW ratio. Once the ratio reaches healthy levels, the problem of piracy should subside and the IT sector should take off like a bandit--providing a growing market for the BSA's members.
Damn. I was trying to make fun, but it's starting to make sense. I hate when that happens.
One man's -1 Flamebait is another man's +5 Funny.
Excuse me, sir. Seeing as how the VP is such a VIP shouldn't we keep the PC on the QT 'cause if it leaks to the VC he could end up an MIA, and then we'd all be put on KP
Call me old fashioned, but I like a dump to be as memorable as it is devastating - Bender
Your MS experiences shines through. You see, OSS tends not to be broken long because the people who use it/need it tend to fix it quickly. At MS, it isn't broken until they say it is, and it wouldn't even be broken if you'd just upgrade.
And companies using OSS don't spend 50% of their expenditures on IT, silly. That's Microsoft licensing and having to hire all those MCSEs. OSS cuts IT costs.
Why would I fire up a P2P client to get Free Software? Most of it is available on either Savanna or SourceForge.
BTW, the rest of what you said is total BS as well.
I do not have a signature
So if I lived in some poor third world country, and happened to have just enough money to buy some legal, non-pirated, commercial software, imported from some big industrialized nation with a huge IT sector, then ... I couldn't spend that money on something else like feeding my children. Do these idiots at BSA think that when people don't spend money on something like software, that they end up just burning it as cooking fuel?
The reality is the cause and effect is the other way around. Piracy always exists, and it mostly exists among those who don't have much to lose if they get caught, or are sure they won't get caught, or just don't have the money to buy it in the first place. It's the existance of a strong IT sector that generates market for software, which in turn generates revenues for those who sell it (domestically or internationally).
The message BSA should be sending out is:
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
BSA is not Boy Scouts. The joke is no longer funny.
Will I retire or break 10K?
There are a lot of posts refuting this study, although to me it seems perfectly logical. If people are pirating software, they are not paying for it. In places where people buy more software instead of pirating it, it is only logical that more money would be made off of the software -- you don't need a study to prove that.
In my humble opinion, the big issue is piracy in businesses. Businesses should be paying for their software, as they have the capital to do so. Some kid pirating Visual Studio to play with the development environments is not hurting the software industry -- they wouldn't buy it anyway if they couldn't pirate it, and they are actually helping by increasing dependancy on proprietary products. If the government starts cracking down on piracy due to studies like this, its going to be the fault of irresponsible business, not piracy in general.
So now, somebody who can RTFM is considered a guru?
No, somebody who can UTFM (understand the fine manual) is a guru. Commercial distributors of free software would make more money if they would contribute some good tutorials for setting up server packages in a secure-by-default-but-reasonably-operational manner.
Will I retire or break 10K?
This relates to the "piracy cost us $xxx,xxx,xxx zillion"-argument: it is not true. Most people pirating music/software would not have bought the product if couldn't pirate it.
If you *aren't* in the IT sector, but in any other sector of the economy, and you read that report, you might think "wow, I can keep my manufacturing costs down and have a better position in the high-tech labor market as an employer if I move more facilities to a weak-IP country."
... people with big cars and large houses earn more money than people that live for rent and have small or no (gasp) cars. So go out and buy a big car today to get a better job tomorrow!
"By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself." -- Bill Hicks
The poster seems to imply that piracy is ok. I don't really understand this line of thinking. I personally believe in free (as in speech) software. But I don't agree that everyone should be forced to live by this belief. If a person or company chooses to sell their closed-source software, that is fine. I personally won't use it. But people that say "Hey that is wrong. You should open-source this." but then go ahead and use it anyway baffle me.If you want to influence a company's decisions, do it by boycotting their products not by stealing from them. It seems I'm in the minority (at least of the Slashdot crowd) in this case, so maybe other readers can educate me.
Scott, Keeper of the Crystal Flame
Didn't you know? You deserve to be able to download absolutely anything, because there is a "possibility" you may buy it after trying it out.
It makes complete and utter sense! Utter sense, yes! Actual law doesn't matter; it's all about convenience in having the latest album leak before release date or the cracked WarCraft III ISO. It is completely okay for you to download something that you normally pay for in a store, and the fact that you have been doing it for years has solidified this flawed concept in your mind.
Pretty soon, some mouthpiece will come along spewing the general mindset toward you and me and will get +5 Insightful, and we will all call it a day.
"Sufferin' succotash."
I was also surprised that that www.bsa.org isn't running IIS, but Apache on FreeBSD.
http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.bsa.
The same applies to the music industry, book publishing, or any other intellecutal property enterprise. Keep that in mind next time you are firing up your P2P client and downloading the latest "free" software or music or whatever. Remember that your "free" software has a cost - rather than being measured in a few dollars out of your wallet, this cost is measured in people's jobs.
The music/movie industry would have us believe that free distribution = end of profit.
They would seem to disagree:
"Publishers and authors: listen up! We know you may be concerned about all this book-sharing talk, and what it might do to your sales. You may be surprised to know that we have many, many publishers and authors that are big BookCrossing fans. They've seen the paradoxical value in encouraging the sharing of books. In fact, if one were to compare the number of people who buy books based on seeing book reviews here as the books change hands, to the number of people who actually find free books, we can assure you there are far more buyers than finders. This site is not about saving people money. Many of our members, in fact, have started purchasing two copies of every book they pick out, so they can keep one and release the other into the wild! Here's a good forum discussion re: authors, book sales, and bookcrossing that should alleviate any concerns about lost sales."
He would seem to disagree as well.
More here.
True... none have anything to do with piracy, but it would appear that free does not necessitate loss.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
I don't know why this has a mod of "funny". It is possibly just as a strong a corellation as piracy policy since WASP nations appear to have the most onerous piracy laws and are more likely to have the income required to buy legit software.
Insightful I say, and a damning insight at that.
We have laws against shonky accounting, why should people be allowed to peddle shonky science?
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
Members of the BSA report higher software piracy rates than companies who are not members. Obviously this means that joining the BSA causes your software to pe pirated more!
and a popup window opens (ARRRRRRRRGH) with a message that reads :)
"URGENT MESSAGE: The Business Software Alliance is not responsible for the Opaserv worm. If you have been affected by this virus, click here for a list of helpful links and hotlines."
Seems like damage control to me
Your quote is back-asswards. I presume it relates to sales taxes. My commercial clients buy software across state lines from companies like CDW, so there is no sales tax to start with.
To further the argument, if a business didn't have to spend as much on software, they'd have a bigger bottom line, hence pay more income taxes.
In that case, shouldn't the US government be discouraging countries from passing tougher copyright laws?
Wouldn't that end up sending US jobs overseas?
Boy I hope they keep turning the screws on their customers, I just love underbidding the local MS shops. They offer a MS server for emial, I throw in a linux box that does file serving , web server, database, email, vpn ....makes the sale a walk in the park....Plus I offer all of that for half of the MS shops estimate...
Got Code?
While it's unlikely that piracy *causes* loss of IT jobs, it is more likely that a strong IT industry leads to more legitimate purchases due to a need for software support, and the because if a country has a lot of IT jobs, then they have more money. It's however much more likely that the two have nothing to do with each other except that they are both affected by something else, like wealth of a country.
However, I'll be first in line for the newest Britney "cute with mute on" Spears CD if the BSA shows me my new IT job to go along with the reduction in piracy.
Countries with less piracy use more Open Source software.
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
Countries with the highest piracy rates tend to have the least developed economies and certainly no IT economies to start with because the demand for software is connected directly to the percent of the population that owns a computer and knows how to use one. If no such demand exists, then it makes little sense for established software publishers to have a big presence in said country, and this leaves an opening for pirates, who don't have to spend money on air conditioned offices, advertising, packaging, and support. I can only guess whether foreign software pirates can make money smuggling pirated software to countries with more copyright protections. Anyway, these countries with supposedly lower piracy rates have high tech economies with include lots of wealthy, influential IT companies that can sue and lobby for legislation and enforcement to put pirates out of business. This is harder to get done in countries where the primary industry is agriculture and the government is more interested in protecting puny domestic software industries from foreign competition than protecting the profits of foreign software companies, assuming riots and civil war aren't the overriding concern.
Just goes to show that people could resort to using statistics in order to claim that the moon is made of green cheese if they thought enough people would buy it.
This is a very flawed statistic. It reminds me of this study done by the tobacco companies once that said people who quit smoking are more likely to die earlier than people who don't quit. What they don't tell you is that people quit BECAUSE they're almost dead!!
Same goes for this study. There is a correlation between national wealth and anti-piracy. However this doesn't prove cause and effect. In fact there are many other factors that can easily play into this correlation. Nations that are rich are able to pay for software legitimately. Nations that are rich have the most to lose if copyrights are not enforced.
Think back to the last century. The U.S., being the young developing nation it was back then, didn't bother respecting any intellectual property rights themselves. Works from Britain were stolen, no royalties were paid, and our government didn't care much either. Just go do a search on google for what Charles Dickens thought about the U.S. when we stole his books/works and paid him nothing for it.
Fact is, developing nations NEED some latitude in terms of copyrights. Without it how are they going to develop? People in some of these countries can't even make enough $ in a year to pay for a crappy copy of Windows. The U.S. went through the same thing, and yet now we're calling the kettle black. This is hypocricy.
eTrade SUCKS
The poster suggests that that the low IT growth in some countries is due to oppression instead of piracy. I would argue that both piracy and low IT growth are a direct result of opression. Opressive governments like those in China and Russia steal wealth in the name of society or due to corruption. This reduces the motivation to make money writing software and increases the incentive to pirate software due to lack of respect for personal property in these types of govts. So, although the cause and effect the BSA is trying to argue is not clear cut, the correlation between slow IT growth and piracy are not surprising. Presumably, reforms in these govts would fix both problems.
Vote for Pedro
Lies, damn lies, and statistics...
Excuse me, but even the terms they use are fradulent. I would have expected that from the BSA considering that they lie - even with their statistics, but not so much so from the /. crowd.
Piracy is where you attack a ship and beat and rape and kill people and hijack their stuff - it is not copying, not illegal copying, not unauthorized copying, and it never will be no matter how often they fradulently use the word Piracy. So, please I beg you, call it illegal copying if you wish, but please not Piracy.
Thank you.
Yup, sure. Disinterest in keeping BBS account information current is a sure sign of being something other than a professional programer.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
"Broken software that requires babysitting by elitist gurus is _exactly_ what IT workers want, so they can continue to justify their positions and their salaries."
I thought you were talking about Windows here. But I see your point:
IT workers LOVE Open Source software because it crashes EVEN MORE, and you just know they don't get paid for their results and TCO, but their hax0r 7331 skillz. But there will be this sudden shift, and companies will suddenly start looking at results and cost savings to judge their employees by (influenced, no doubt, by your insightful post), causing a sudden recession in the IT industry.
And since the majority of slashdotters don't have a clue about western business culture or economics, they mod you up.
Enjoy your success in fantasy land . . . your ideas wouldn't hold up a second in a real business environment.
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
You gimme any of that juris-my-diction crap, you can cram it up your ass.
The mailing was for your protection.
The opinions stated herein do not necessarily represent those of anybody at all. Deal with it.
Because you can be sure your local RIAA representative will be making sure your local publications get this as a press release.
If they do, write to the editors and tell them how shonky this "study" really is. The parent pot is a good start.
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
Reading all of the responses, it's amazing how far you guys are willing to be intellectually dishonest to support the common habit here of piracy.
While I doubt the BSA's numbers and their motivation, the fact remains that in countries with rampant piracy, there's really no financial reason for companies to produce consumer-oriented software. Obviously, this does have an impact on the job market and the government income from taxes.
Why are you letting these clowns ruin our country?
Vito: Yo' wahs is dis I be gettin' in da mail? Yousa sendin' me a threatin' letters.
BSA Attorney: Um, sir, I'm not sure if I understand what you're referring to... We do send out letters requesting audits every now and then.
Vito: Audits? Howsa bought you come down to my place fo' an' audit...Maybe we could 'discus' de issue...
BSA Attorney: Well, sir, um, that's not how we usually work, you see-
Vito: Listen, punk, I'm da won tellin' you da way it's gonna be. Like da Pres' be sayin' yousa either wit' me on dis one, or yousa against me. Ya know it would be a real tragic like if sometin' was ta happen to yousa family, ya know what I'm sayin'...
BSA Attorney: Um sir, I've got a lunch meeting to attend... (Hangs up phone nervously)
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
And flys cause garbage.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
That be sounding like a challenge, matey.
The GPL has no restriction whatsoever regarding the use or download of software.
That's great news, now Microsoft can use the Linux kernel anyway they want. And since the GPL has no restriction whatsoever regarding the use or download of it, they can get away with it too.
I/O, I/O, its off to disk I go, with a read and a write, and a bit and a byte, I/O, I/O, I/O, I/O
The BSA is very strict about auditing companies (or at least scaring them) in these countries specifically because they are the countries with the largest (most money msking/spending) IT sectors. They're just tooting their own horn.
Oh shit! I forgot to click "Post Anonymously"...
Countries that can afford the largest IT sectors (much - albeit not all - IT spending is discretionary) are more able to afford legitimate licences.
Interestingly the countries whose people make the largest contributions to Free Software tend to be the free-est and richest.
I would say freedom brings wealth, which in turn can be traded for the convenience of software licences, but also allows the free time to devote to Free Software.
But does anyone think BSA is anything other than a shakedown outfit?
'There is a Light that never goes out.'
Nice simile, well worth the score.
Absolutely on the button, one could equally well write
"...nations with the largest IT sectors had the lowest piracy rates."
Yet another confusion of correlation with causation.
IT growth (or any market growth) will happen in areas where it is rewarded.
These "rewards" you seek are only inherent in a system of free captialism. There is no capitalism here. Move on, lest you be shot for competing against the state-owned monopoly.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
"In general, nations with the lowest piracy rates had the largest IT sectors".
Of course this'll happen. In poor countries a PC may cost a months to a years wages. By the time you add licences for Win98/XP, MS Office and all the other packages you have have to buy to make windows useful a lot of people or companies in those countries will be bankrupted.
Simplest way out if they wanna run Windows - spend the money on the hardware and Pirate It!
In the affluent west (i.e. where the strongest IT sectors are) people don't generally have to sell their camel/cow/goat/wife/children to get a copy of the latest bloated pile of bollocks from Redmond.
What's even worse is that the wankers at the BSA hold their audience in such contempt that they try pathetic rouses like this.
Hmmmmmm..... Deep fried and look like Squirrel.
Anonymous Coward my shiny new asterick! Hell, I agree with that, and will stcik my alias to it... 8-)
Quick! We must pirate this report! Who has a hacked e-book version, for my copy of Kazaa with the commercials cut out?
The ______ Agenda
Good example: Borland's past behavior. Remember the 5-book manuals for dBASEIV v2 & dBASE5, the 6-book manuals for Delphi 3 Pro, the 8-manual set for BC++ 3.1, and the 4-manual set for TP 7? Or C.A.'s 4-manual set for Clipper, and another 4 for their toolkit?
The manuals were real value. Not like a stupid readme or help file. I bought the software as much for the manuals as for the disks, and I'm sure others did, too.
If they really wanted to stop piracy, they would start putting money into proper manuals. After all, most of us also own hundreds, if not thousands of dollars worth of books dealing with open-source software, so we're not adverse to paying for information.
Old old joke :)
I used to live behind this minijungle of trash bamboo. I'd tell daunted visitors that it was to keep the elephants away... "You don't see any elephants, do you?"
One day some wag responded, "Only the pink ones!"
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?