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Debian NetBSD for Sparc
Dan writes "Matthew Garrett has demonstrated his success in building a Debian operating system on the Sparc architecture on top of the NetBSD kernel. Additionally Joel Baker reported about significant work for the NetBSD/x86 port, such as dpkg and APT, that will work without additional patches. NetBSD runs on hardware unsupported by Linux. Folks working on the project say that porting Debian to the NetBSD kernel increases the number of platforms that can run a Debian-based operating system."
*BSD IS DYING
In the begining :
There was nothing
then God said
apt-get install light
Trolling using another account since 2005.
that Debian eats poop. Its own poop.*
* and it likes it
that the Debian weenies and the BSD weenies will stop bickering already??
But what do I know. I'm just looking for anonymous gay sex.
i thought debian was a linux distro. if they make a distro for something other than linux, does that mean its done by the same people, with the same principle behind it, or something like that
or am i jsut really missing the point of what a distro is?
NetBSD can run on more platforms than you can shake a stick at. Also with the ability to run IRIX binaries as well gives it a bit more depth/reach. Just shows what portable code can do. Anyway time to boot my Dreamcast :)
Rus
Cheap UK and US VPS
My <1000 UID is with a hot chick
...for when I argue against "Debian sucks because it's Linux" *BSD people. Debian is a "universal" operating system (well, let's say "packaging system") -- it's is not strictly Linux. Debian != Linux
On this topic, I remember reading a while back about a Debian FreeBSD project. Anyone know the status of that?
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So, would someone care to explain why you wouldn't just use NetBSD instead of trying to run a Linux environment with a NetBSD kernel? What benefit does this give you? One of the benefits of BSDs is that they're coherent systems and not a hodgepodge of kernels and userland apps. So again, what is being gained here?
I had debian installed on my UltraAXI and it ran pretty good. NetBSD ran pretty good on it too. Not to get off topic, but UltraSparcs lack variety. Not many linux distros still support Ultra ports well (Redhat stopped at 6.2, MDK stopped at 7.1?, Debian is current!, Gentoo doesn't support X on Ultra (WTF, Idiots) Slack stopped at 6.x? and Splack just isn't bleeding edge). Back on topic, I'm glad to see progress. I'm not into OS flame wars, but I do like things about Debian (apt, dur), and NetBSD (mad portability), so I'm definately going to have to play with this. :-)
Can all fish swim?
...Debian is not dead?
How many times do I have to tell you, it's just not funny!
Damn it, quit your laughing, it's really not!
Stop it already! I'm serious!!
Fire up Bochs on your new Debian kernel on your NetBSD OS on your SPARC system and run an i386 system on which you may choose to run ... oh, I don't know, maybe a copy of FreeBSD? Which itself could run Bochs---but in Linux emulation mode? And that could run MS-DOS?
Whatever you do, don't start a Java app at this point!
It is great to see Debian running on everything known to man.. However I have never understood why they are so far behind other distributions?
Gnu/Debian BSD
Why God, Why!?
Why the hell would anyone in their right mind want to run linux on top of NetBSD? They both can run the same apps, and NetBSD is significantly faster, more reliable, stable, etc. Not to mention that NetBSD also runs on more platforms. Really puzzles me that someone would go through all the effort, when they could simply just learn how to use NetBSD and be done with it.
In related news, scientists for the dairy industry announced that pouring milk into glasses will increase the number of glasses which contain milk.
Uh...
Why on earth would you want to run Debian on top of NetBSD, when you could run the real thing?? Rock Solid, multi-architecture, Fast-as-hell TCP stack... All the things that make NetBSD the place to be!
It would be great to be able to run *BSD on these machines, especially the older ones we have where hp-ux just doesn't hack it anymore.
Who the hell told Carrot Top he was funny?
Or maybe FreeBSD port based (oh wait Gentoo)...
not sparc - different things. The 'sparc' implies 32 bit whereas sparc64 are the 64 bit 'ultra'sparc based machines.
Debian is all about stability. The main branch, Woody, had old packages but they are know to work. You don't get a lot of crashes, things just work. You will find debian people put a lot of work into configs and such like, make sure things interact with each other.
For example say I install a new Apache Modules there are scripts that will automatically update my httpd.conf rather than just writing over it. To get a Debian system up and running is quick and easy as 99% of the tweaking has been done.
Even though things are old they do make sure they are secure. If there is an exploit you can upgrade your system by just doing
apt-get update
apt-get upgrade.
Thats it. Auto download and patch of affected programs
However there is also another unstable branch, Sarge IIRC, which has cutting edge stuff. Latest version of everything. However as implied by its name it could just get up and crash at any moment.
Hope that helps
Rus
Cheap UK and US VPS
I was about to smack this poster down, but you did it with a condescending tone that I cannot match. Thank you!
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Debian does Dallas.
Debian FreeBSD is DEAD. Debian NetBSD is DYING. Netcraft confirms it! As you can clearly see from this graph no instances of Debian *BSD are present. This clearly demonstrates that Debian *BSD is dying, in fact, it's already dead!
One of Linux' big problems is a lack of modularity. Building an entire Linux system, from scratch, is an incredible pain; you have to buy books to explain how. This is particularly annoying when, say, you're building a Linux appliance and want to tweak things. You want to compile with -m686? On BSD you just change one setting, run one makefile and everything rebuilds. On Linux you have to configure a zillion packages independantly.
OTOH, one of BSD's big problems is hardware. I have a Hauppauge Nova-T DVB card. Is it supported under BSD? Need you ask? (Although, surprisingly, BT8x8-based TV cards are supported by OpenBSD.) I have a long-term project to build a PVR. If I could use BSD, I'd go for it like a shot --- it's just so much easier to configure. As it is, I have to go for Linux, which is so much of a pain that I haven't been able to muster the energy to get started yet...
However, then, it wouldn't be "Debian/NetBSD" but rather "Debian GNU/NetBSD" (Debian, at least, having already accepted the GNU/Linux moniker).
I really think there are practical advantages to distinguishing between 1) kernel, 2) "everything else", i.e. portable packages ported to run on that kernel, and with each other, and 3) who did the porting/distribution bundling.
Of course, when there is only one varient of one of those three components, i.e. the bits and pieces of what would be GNU, we tend to leave it out, as cumbersome, redundant, and unwieldly, RMS protests of the need to pay hommage (or at least use terminology that conveys GNU roots) notwithstanding. Thus, "Red Hat Linux": there is no other kind of "Linux" packaged by Red Hat (and since they did the bundling, they get to call it pretty much whatever they want (personally, I would have preferred "Up Yours, MS"/OS, but anyway...)), and no techical need for a "Red Hat GNU/Linux" designation.
RMS may want to see us embrace a phisosophical basis for free software, but, without the economic benefits that open source exemplifies, I doubt free software would have the contributions it does. Similarly, without a technical argument for "GNU/Linux", the moniker will likely not be popular. It would be nice, though, if the technical argument were there, so the philosophy and history could get some recognition and representation in common use.
I expect that might come in niche markets: where Linux is combined with severly scaled down portions of GNU, and non-GNU software, particularly in the embedded market: look at BusyBox -- a combination of utilities in a single executible for space reasons. We are seeing attempts to standardize "Linux" for the desktop (LSB), as well as for the embedded space. I, for one, wouldn't mind seeing LSB (Linux Standard Base) become GSB (GNU Standard Base), with LSB dealing solely with a kernel standard, in this vein.
O.K. ObGNU/Linux rant over.
You could've hired me.
Come to think of it, on many levels GNU/FSF has led the charge. Look at how many GPL'ed programs already run on several OS'es. I mean, all that really matters is that nethack works on your os of choice, right?
I wonder how long before we see RedHat XVII for windows..
So long, and thanks for all the Phish
I mean, won't you people just let BSD die in peace?
Especially NetBSD. Everybody who's trying to run BSD on a Vic20 should just be shot. Really.
There's a ton of home-brew linux OS's out there. Why not add your UYM$/OS to the fray? :)
...am I the only one for whom the icons are all 1x1 dots since like Sunday night? What gives?
Apt is the reason why I switched from RedHat to Debian. Well, apt and availability of programs. There seems to be much more, much faster availability for Debian than any other distro. Yes, yes I know there is a port of apt for RH but in my opinion it isn't that good. Anyways, I wish apt would become a standard. Its great to see other unices adopting it.
Since when has Debian been ok with BSD licenses?
read his fucking auto-biography... "I have the long-term goal of establishing "Excellent" karma on this account, then unleashing a plague of +1 trolls upon the Slashdot. discussion forums. I am only a karma whore in my larval stage, but eventually, when I've grown into my adult stage, I'll be a colorful troll. Luckily for everyone here, this should take some time." not only does he have TROLL in his handle, he's TRYING to karma whore so he can +1 troll! jesus christ moderators, what the hell is wrong with you!?!?!?
Big deal, it still isn't Linux.
I inherited an old Alpha 3000 Turbochannel box a while back. Linux refused to boot. Most of the forums on the topic said "Won't happen. Go get NetBSD". So I got it and installed it and I gotta say I like it. It's easy and very capable. It's a great server platform.
There is nothing so silly as other peoples traditions, and nothing so sacred as our own.
Maybe this will make people stop and think about what "linux" actually is, and where else credit might be due. If you switch out that component, what do you have?
Of course the marketing machine likes the word linux quite a lot, it's catchy, it has panache, it sells, which is why people say things like "wow, how did you get that linux software running on MacOS?" when refering to things like bash, gcc or gnome apps.
how obvious does it have to be for you to NOT postiviely moderate a post?? come on... just like another posted mentiond, this guy is a fucking troll, and here he is with +5! MODERATE him DOWN!
Everyone always complains and bitches about what OS is better, whos has the l33ter OS, who is running the most current kernel, and then proceed to get in bitter flame wars over which OS is better.
This guy has created a product to satisfy one thing for him, which is his curiousity. Isn't that good enough these days? A project based on curiousity should be respected on general the general premise that something creative is being done in the name of innovation.
Maybe if we stopped wasting time arguing and insulting each other about what OS we run, and spend all that time doing something productive like this man has done, we will actually accomplish every goal we set.
Just a thought.
-kalle
the 'main' distribution is, when you add security.debian.org to your /etc/apt/sources.list, updated with backported security fixes and such. so you get the best of both worlds from an admin standpoint: stable software (as the OP said) known to work and work well, plus security updates. subscribing to the debian security list is also a nice, low traffic way to keep up on debian security things. the combination of these factors make debian a damned dream to run as a sysadmin if you have, say, a huge thundering herd of web and database servers to keep happy.
News for Geeks in Austin, TX
One of the benefits of BSDs is that they're coherent systems and not a hodgepodge of kernels and userland apps.
.
If you mean what I think you mean then that's a bizzare idea. BSD distributions contain the same 'hodgepodge' of userland apps, they are not any more or less 'coherent'
You'll find quite a bit of GNU software on a default FreeBSD install (and not just gcc and related tools, more basic things like GNU versions of tar too).
There is nothing keeping one from building the entire GNU library on one of the BSD's.
Go into the ports directory, find what you want, and type "make install".
This is even better, in that you can just do the programs you are interested in.
The Debian Free Software Guidelines.
Nah, people say things like that because they're ignorant fsckwits with no sense of history!!!
Hey, I used bash on SunOS 4.1.X! (And X takes on values other than just 4!) I even used some of that "linux software" on some old sun3 machines. For the young ones out there, that means pre-SPARC Sun equipment. And there are others that have used "linux software" on much, much older stuff.
Ok, we have Debian NetBSD for Sparc running. What's next?
GNU AIX for Mips?
Apple Windows for Alpha?
Microsoft FreeBSD for 6502?
What is the difference between the debian GNU/linux and the debian/NetBSD distros? Only the kernel.
So either you'll put GNU/NetBSD or remove GNU from linux. So RMS is really a wanker and so are those who use the "GNU" acronym.
Linux is not GNU.
If Debian's support of NetBSD is because it can run on platforms Linux can't, when will we see
Debian GNU/NetBSD for Sega Dreamcast?
Debian is a group of people who have SOFTWARE distributions, including a bunch of software distribution tools like apt-get. Usually people use their Linux distros, and use apt-get to get Linux updates, but they've also been working on other Unix-like distros, such as their GNU/HURD package. Unix in general has been intended to be a portable operating system, with applications that are portable (and often get ported to other operating systems, partly because C is a relatively portable language and partly because the models for interacting with the OS can be packaged in a variety of libraries to match the underlying platform.) So this one's using a *BSD kernel, with most of the same GNU and X and other non-GNU tools that they also run on Linux and HURD.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Why using Debian when there's a Slackware?
...Debian GNU/NetBSD?
Can't they take the heat from outraged FreeBDS developers?
I have discovered a truly marvelous sig, unfortunately the sig limit is too small to contain i
Yeah, Debian sucks. It's inconsistent. Not like the SSS principle of Slackware. Red Hat works fine as well. SlashDot Editors: Why Slackware doesn't have its own logo and when something is about Slack we just see a pinguin??? Tux does it with Slack!!!
One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered *BSD community when IDC confirmed that *BSD market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.
You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.
FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying.
Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.
OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.
Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.
All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.
Fact: *BSD is dying
I think it's funny that people always complain about Debian stable being so old when the current packages in the RedHat "Enterprise" distros are using the same versions. RedHat 9 may have the latest Gnome and Xfree86, but their stable, supported, pay-for-update Enterprise editions are still using Gnome 1.4 and Xfree86 4.1.
If you want dependability you use well tested software. On that score Debian was way ahead of RedHat, who didn't figure it out until this year.
Where would we be if Wheel had hid her round rock in a cave instead of showing everyone how it rolls?
Too bad it will be plagued by the usual GPL-related bigotry.
What I'd love to see is one of the BSD's using the Linux kernel.
Clean, comfortable and standard userland space with all the bells and whistles of the Linux kernel; with the usual 'experimental' drivers in the production release kernels.
You got it. No Debian please. Many users think that Debian is the only GNU/Linux distro; that's not true! There are better distroes! Simple_Solid_Stable_Secure = Slackware
God, being a perfect being, must be using debfoster, the perfect package management tool. So assuming that the only fostered package is man, only packages man depends on should be keepers. If man were to no longer depend on lucifer, it would be automatically unfostered. So either man depends on satan, or God has fostered satan. (I think I've heard both arguments from modern theologists...)
What's your problem with RPMs? RPMs are OK. RPMs and DEBs are about the same thing. TGZs are simple packages which won't break and means more stability, security of your system. If you want your RPM-based Debian distro, do it and please call it RedDebian or DebianHat. Slackware rulez!
-1 troll. somebody's been an asshat!
If you had bothered to read the Debian GNU/NetBSD home page (for which there is a link in the story), you would realize that is it.
The record is clear on one thing: no operating system has ever come back from the grave. Efforts to resuscitate *BSD are one step away from spiritualists wishing to communicate with the dead. As the situation grows more desperate for the adherents of this doomed OS, the sorrow takes hold. An unremitting gloom hangs like a death shroud over a once hopeful *BSD community. The hope is gone; a mournful nostalgia has settled in. Now is the end time for *BSD.
So, I suppose the kernel will be kept in the non-free optional install section with mpg123 and other non-gnu programs?
(note to mods: debian users will get this joke)
Yeah, I bet the {Open,Net}BSD people would love to get their kernels infected by the GPL.
One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered *BSD community when IDC confirmed that *BSD market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a mere fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.
You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.
FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying.
Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.
OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.
Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.
All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.
Fact: *BSD is dying