GeForce FX 5200 Reviewed

EconolineCrush writes "Tech Report has a great in-depth review of NVIDIA's budget GeForce FX 5200, which brings full DirectX 9 support down to an amazing sub-$70 price point. Any budget graphics card capable of running NVIDIA's gorgeous Dawn is impressive on its own, but when put under the microscope, the GeForce FX 5200 looks more like an exercise in marketing spin than a real revolution for budget graphics cards."

Comments

two words

[deadsaijinx*]

utter crap. I mean, if the high quality one sucked so bad, then the always crappy MX is just gonna suck even worse. fp

Re:two words

[DShard]

I wouldn't say the always crappy... The original mx was just as good as me original geforce-sdr at 1/4 the price. You really can't beat that.

Re:two words

[bobbozzo]

It isn't an MX.
The MX's had fewer features; this one is full-featured, just slower.

Re:two words

[deadsaijinx*]

you got me there, it isn't technically MX, but in my mind, its performance is equivalent with what I would consider the GF FX MX series ^^ that's fun to say. GF FX MX. try it

Re:two words

[Billly Gates]

MX has all the features. It just comes with crippled sdram instead of ddram and the main chip is clocked slower.

They are fine if you do 16bit color because the bandwith and not the chip is the bottleneck.

I am using a MX right now because the fan on my geforce4 failed. Miraculously it survived. I was replacing my motherboard due to a powersurge and noticed the card was scolding hot.

Quake3 and UT are fine in 16bit color. Doom3 would suck on it though.

Re:two words

[afidel]

No the MX line has no vertex shader, which is why the lowly Ti200 beats the fastest MX on some games, the MX has to revert to a crappier rendering pipeline with fewer features and more stuff done in software.

Re:two words

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but the GeForce4 MX is NOT to compete against or at least rivalize the Ti(s) in features or speed according to nvidia. The GeForce4 MX was to succeed the GeForce2 MX, not the Geforces 3 Ti. The number (4) is just a marketing coincidence. :-)

Re:two words

[Anonymous Coward]

MX has all the features. It just comes with crippled sdram instead of ddram and the main chip is clocked slower.

Nope. The GF4 MX is based around the GF2 MX core with some added features (notably antialiasing and faster memory). It's therefore a DirectX 7 part, without pixel and vertex shaders. And all GF4 MXes except the MX 420 have DDR memory. See tech report.

Perhaps you were thinking about the difference between a GeForce 2 MX (most of which did have SDRAM) and a GeForce 2 GTS. But you'd still be wrong because they're also different chips with different features.

Re:two words

[nelsonal]

The GF 2 MX was a really nice card, it was my first "performance" video card, I think I paid $100 for it, although after that ATI seemed to have much better offerings for the sub $100 video card market.

Re:two words

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes my backup video card is a Geforce2MX

holy first post, batman

[joe_bruin]

go on, git.

Next up for review...

[Anonymous Coward]

my ANUS

fp, nigs.

Hovercraft

[Anonymous Coward]

This thing sounds like a hovercraft when you turn on the PC.

Re:Hovercraft

[Anonymous Coward]

RTFA! It doesn't even have a fan!

Re:Hovercraft

[Anonymous Coward]

I would agree with you, its the GeForce FX 5800 Ultra that sounds like a hovercraft, that has the extra fan, not the 5200!

Re:Hovercraft

[molarmass192]

That's crazy, 70dB!!! That makes the FX 5800 U louder than all the other fans on my PC combined. What the hell are they using to produce 70dB, an air horn?!?

Re:Hovercraft

[nick_davison]

From this thread:
This thing sounds like a hovercraft when you turn on the PC.

From the article:
However, for average consumers and business users, the GeForce FX 5200 offers better multimonitor software, more future-proof feature compatibility, and silent and reliable passive cooling.

It's amazing what actually reading the review on the product you know nothing about will do for you.

FX

[SugoiMonkey]

I can only imagine what other useless computer paraphernalia I can waste $70 on. Hmmm. Maybe I'll get that USB toothbrush.

The Monkey Pages: Not just another personal site...okay, so I lie.

Re:FX

[naes]

I'm still waiting for the Bluetooth toothbrush.

I HATE all you fucking CUNTz, go to hell

[(TK4)Dessimat0r]

-PENIS--PENIS--PENIS--PENIS-
P_______________________8..P
E__Bow down to the_____#~..E
N__Lord's penis_______8.',-N
I_____________________#',-.I
S__Jesus wants your__8',-..S
-__anus, and he_____#~',-..-
P__wants it NOW!____8_',-..P
E__________________##',-',-E
N__________________8',-',";N
I_________________##',-',";I
S_________________8',-',";.S
-________________##',-',";.-
P________________8',-',";,.P
E_______________#'',-',";,.E
N______________8(',-',";,..N
I_____________#(',-',";,.,.I
S__________#8#8_',-',";,.,.S
-_________#',-.8',-',";,.,.-
P________8~',-..#',-',";,..P
E_______#'',-',";8_',-',";.E
N_____8=',-',";.+#+',-',";.N
I____#=',-',";,._8',-',";,.I
S___#=',-',";,..(#',-',";.8S
-__8(',-',YOUR,.(8',-',";s#-
P_8(',-',MOTHER";#',-',-s8_P
E_#z',-',LOVES,";8',-..s#__E
N_8_.,#',"YOU',";~#,..88___N
I_#.##',-DEARLY,";~8,.8#___I
S_8##',-+~'',-',-~#'8______S
-_#.,..-',-',";.'=8#_______-
P_.8+_',-',";,.'88_________P
E___888',-',";~8___________E
N______8#888#88____________N
I__________________________I
S____.oO TrollKore Oo._____S
-_At the head of the game._-
P__________________________P
E___irc.freedomirc.net_____E
N_______#trollkore_________N
I__________________________I
S__________________________S
-PENIS--PENIS--PENIS--PENIS-

All you cock-loving fuckers out there, here is a special treat for you bastards, take a look at this knob. NOW SUCK IT, MOTHERFUCKERS!

You are not logged in. You can log in now using the Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account. Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal the convenient form below, or Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account. Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal

Re:I HATE all you fucking CUNTz, go to hell

[Anonymous Coward]

Now isn't that special.

A waste but still cheap.

[Tweakmeister]

As the poster states...looks like mostly marketing spin in terms of performance. "So, while the GeForce FX 5200 is technically capable of all sorts of DirectX 9-class eye candy, I have to question just how well the card will handle future DirectX 9 games and applications. After all, a slideshow filled with DirectX 9 eye candy is still a slide show." Throw some fancy "big boy" names on a box without the performance to back it up.

Re:A waste but still cheap.

[That_Dan_Guy]

Tom's Hardware questions this as well:

http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030311/ge fo rcefx-5600-5200-26.html

THeir conclusion was the 5200 was good for the price, but questionable if it would really be able to keep up with DX9 games when they became available.

Just to meet a release schedule?

[AlabamaMike]

Wonder if they dropped this on the market just to keep the steady stream of products rolling? Even if the performance isn't totally up to par, you've gotta give them this: $70 for a graphics accelerator that can perform this well is still an achievement. I can still remember paying $200 for my first MonsterFX. Now that seems like as old as Hercules graphics.

-A.M.

Re:Just to meet a release schedule?

[m1chael]

it may be cheap but why release a card that can perform worse than a geforce4 mx? i dont see the point other than people who need to upgrade their geforce4 mxs to direct 9 *cough* *splutter* but i guess it would be good for a cheapo direct 9 card *cough* *splutter.

Surprise, surprise.

[Tyler Eaves]

Does this honestly surprise anyone in the least?

THINK!

If the low end was worth the PCB is was printed on, there goes the market for the higher-end (and higher-margin) stuff.

Re:Surprise, surprise.

[packeteer]

This is exactly it. This is why video card's price doesn't scale well. If the flagship $400 card was simply a fast version of a $100 card nobody would buy it. Would you really pay $300 more for a few more mhz on your RAMDAC?

Re:Surprise, surprise.

[Cuthalion]

The RAMDAC is only the part of the card which converts a digital signal to an analog VGA signal. A few extra megahertz here means that the card can output a higher resolution. This is not what anyone cares about, it's the GPU clock frequency (well, that and the memory clock) which probably you meant to refer to.

For God's sake

[Czernobog]

You said it yourself.
It's a budget card.
No leaps and bounds in terms of graphics card techonology progress will be found, otherwise, it wouldn'b be a budget card.
Besides, they have to put a product out, so that they keep customer awareness on their products and not on ATI's, considering how the latest NVIDIA flagship product performs...

Re:For God's sake

[damiam]

It gets its ass kicked by the GeForce 4 MX in half the tests. There's not much you can do to defend that.

Probable reason for the performance hit

[Ryu2]

Besides the lower memory bandwidth and other reasons in the article, it seems to me that the 5200 is implementing the fixed-function T&L pipeline as a vertex shader, to save transistors by foregoing a pure HW implementation, which of course means it'll be slower (although still faster than in software, of course), and of course, you'll incur a greater cost switching between shader and fix-function rendering too. This trick was also used by Trident in their sub-$100 "DX9 compatible" chipsets.

It's a good measure, but it invaribly means that you'll get lagging performance with these low-end cards, so it's something to be careful of. Maybe in a year or so, once shaders become the norm in games, perhaps Moore's law^3 will have enabled them to put those transistors back on and still hit their price target, but definitely not now.

Re:Probable reason for the performance hit

[Anonymous Coward]

umm... moron there is no such thing as fixed function anymore. Every dx9 compliant card on the market does the same thing.

please bother to follow the industry before posting.

Re:Probable reason for the performance hit

[Ryu2]

Wow -- I guess you had better tell Microsoft and all IHVs that, since all my DX9 docs all speak of a separate fixed-function pipeline, apart from the programmable shader model! Sheesh...

No matter how good your programmable shading hardware is, nothing beats implementing something in hardwired silicon, and since the FF pipeline is still used in 90+% of all apps and game rendering, it makes sense to make the common case as fast as possible...

Re:Probable reason for the performance hit

[Anonymous Coward]

hi, I'm a 3d programmer, are you? there is no fixed function in dx9, it is faked in software.

clown.

Re:Probable reason for the performance hit

[Anonymous Coward]

just because you seem to be good at pandering to the moderaters with total bullshit.

5 seconds on google reveals that...

from Mojoworld 2002 presentation speaking on the ati 9700 family:

"A few unique aspects differentiate the 9700 from earlier cards in the Radeon series. Firstly, it has no silicon devoted to the fixed function pipeline, and instead the driver implements the same transform and lighting calculations using vertex shaders."

are you going to sit down and shut up now or do I need to finish you off with 10 more seconds of gathered links + MSDN.

there is no more fixed function, dx7 had it, dx8 was a mix and dx9 kills it, replacing it with programmable.

DirectX 9?

[Trogre]

I trust when you say it has DirectX 9 support you mean it implements OpenGL 2.0?

Re:DirectX 9?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, we need DX9 supported so we can play... ummm... well... 3DMark 2003! yeah that's it! and ummm.... nvidia tech demos.

Re:DirectX 9?

[Allen Akin]

The OpenGL ARB hasn't approved the 2.0 spec yet, and there are still some pretty fundamental issues to be resolved before then, so there's no way to know whether the 5200 will be able to support it.

conclusion

[zymano]

Conclusions There are really two issues to consider as I conclude this review. First, there's the performance and features of NVIDIA's NV34 graphics chip and the GeForce FX 5200 cards that make use of it. Second, we have the Gigi FX5200P, Albatron's take on the GeForce FX 5200. This is Dawn on the GeForce FX 5200 This is the Dawn we drool over To NVIDIA's credit, the GeForce FX 5200 largely makes up for the travesty that was--and still is--the GeForce4 MX. With the GeForce FX 5200, NVIDIA can claim full DirectX 9 feature support across its entire graphics line. Even the cheapest GeForce FX 5200s, which retail for as little as $67 on Pricewatch, support all the DirectX 9 features that make NVIDIA's "Dawn" demo look so good, and that's an impressive feat. However, it's important to make a distinction between feature capability and feature competence. As we've seen in our testing, the GeForce FX 5200 is considerably underpowered in situations where even less technically capable graphics cards excel. Sure, the GeForce FX 5200 supports high precision data types, pixel and vertex shaders 2.0, and a host of other advanced features, but it doesn't seem to perform particularly well when those features are exploited. So, while the GeForce FX 5200 is technically capable of all sorts of DirectX 9-class eye candy, I have to question just how well the card will handle future DirectX 9 games and applications. After all, a slideshow filled with DirectX 9 eye candy is still a slide show. The GeForce FX 5200 isn't as capable a performer as its feature list might suggest, but that doesn't mean cards based on the chip aren't worth picking up. At only $67 online, the GeForce FX 5200 is a few dollars cheaper than the Radeon 9000 Pro. For gamers, the Radeon 9000 Pro offers better and more consistent performance. However, for average consumers and business users, the GeForce FX 5200 offers better multimonitor software, more future-proof feature compatibility, and silent and reliable passive cooling. The GeForce FX 5200 is a great feature-rich card for anyone that's not looking for the best budget gaming option. So what about Albatron's Gigi FX5200P offering? Unfortunately, it looks like Albatron may have tried to cater to gamers a little too much with the Gigi FX5200P. The Gigi FX 5200 retails for $95 on Pricewatch, which is pricey compared to GeForce FX 5200 cards from other manufacturers. The Gigi FX5200P does feature 128MB of memory, but since I wouldn't recommend a GeForce FX 5200-based graphics card to budget gamers, I don't see much point in having 128MB of memory on the board. With 128MB of memory, Albatron's Gigi FX5200PP is too slow to appeal to gamers and too expensive to compete with the $67 GeForce FX 5200 64MB cards that will appeal to budget-conscious businesses and consumers. Albatron does, however, have plans for a whole slew of budget GeForce FX 5200-based offerings, including versions of the card with 64MB of memory, 64-bit memory busses, and even a PCI variant. Those cards should be cheaper than the $95 Gigi FX5200P and more appropriate for consumers and business users.

Re:conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

WHORE WHORE WHORE! You are a karma WHORE! Why are you such a whore whore whore? you're just a karma whore!

Re:conclusion

[Shilaeli]

That's a big paragraph.

Did I miss something ?

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

I still use my old Matrox Millenium I bought in 1995 for $300 (if I remember correctly). Nowadays there are graphics adapters going for $70 that probably have more power and memory than the P200 that houses the Matrox Millenium. Moore's law never ceases to amaze me ...

Re:Did I miss something ?

[Hanno]

Once my desktop's graphics card had more memory than my laptop's system memory, I knew the graphics hardware development was going a weird route.

The other indicators were: craphics cards that need external power plugs and graphics cards that need more than one slotplug for its cooler fan.

Fans, anyway, are the work of the devil and the main reason why computers are driving me nuts these days.

Re:Did I miss something ?

[Mitchell Mebane]

I still use a 3Dfx Voodoo 5 5500, bought 3 months ago for $70.

Interestingly, nVidia claimed that the new cards included 3Dfx technology, hence the FX moniker. I sill like the Voodoo 5 better. ;)

Re:Did I miss something ?

[Palshife]

Once my desktop's graphics card had more memory than my laptop's system memory, I knew the graphics hardware development was going a weird route.

Hell, some graphics cards have more memory than my desktop!

Re:Did I miss something ?

[PsychoElf]

you actually paid $70 for that?

Why?

[mrklin]

Why use all the unnecessary GPU processing to draw a semi-realistic, semi-naked chick (as linked to Nvidia's Dawn demo) when you can play pics and movies of real naked chicks that looks tons better using the system intergrated GPU?

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why use all the unnecessary GPU processing to draw a semi-realistic, semi-naked chick (as linked to Nvidia's Dawn demo) when you can play pics and movies of real naked chicks that looks tons better using the system intergrated GPU?

Even better: I can build a decent computer for my girlfriend who wants to do word processing and doesn't care about 3D graphics, using an even cheaper graphics card that provides even better signal quality and get laid for the favor. What porn movie can compete with that?

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

That depends on how lively she is in bed, of course.

Re:Why?

[null-sRc]

well us geeks need to code ourselves girlfriends we can --interact-- with geeze, we aren't total recluseses... me have good spelling :D

Re:Why?

[grumpygrodyguy]

You're right of course. I was dumb enough to download the whole thing without reading the fine print(only have a ti4200).

On that note, would anyone mind converting this vid. to mpeg? All that fancy hardware FX, DX9 stuff is great...but ultimately it's still just a movie. 30 frames per second, and some standard of resolution and pixel depth. So could someone do this, and maybe link an FTP download?

I'd just like to see the demo...cause it...looks nice :)

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

here you go.

merry sexmas

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

I can build a decent computer for my girlfriend who wants to do word processing and doesn't care about 3D graphics, using an even cheaper graphics card that provides even better signal quality and get laid for the favor.

You have to build your girlfriend a computer to get laid?

Re:Why?

[CvD]

You can *program* this girl and tell her what you want her to do. :-)

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow. That is really neat.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

You have to build your girlfriend a computer to get laid?

You don't? There is another reason why a woman would date a computer scientist?

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but the next generation of nipple shaders will even surpass reality.

Re:Why?

[osguru]

Now now - Duke Nuken 3D's Strippers at 300x200 VESA were, and are quite well rendered.

Re:Why?

[osguru]

and Nukem too!

Fuck you all, knobheads

[(TK4)Dessimat0r]

-PENIS--PENIS--PENIS--PENIS-
P_______________________8..P
E__Bow down to the_____#~..E
N__Lord's penis_______8.',-N
I_____________________#',-.I
S__Jesus wants your__8',-..S
-__anus, and he_____#~',-..-
P__wants it NOW!____8_',-..P
E__________________##',-',-E
N__An original_____8',-',";N
I__TrollKore(TM)_____##',-',";I
S__work of art.___8',-',";.S
-__By Dessimat0r ##',-',";.-
P________________8',-',";,.P
E_______________#'',-',";,.E
N______________8(',-',";,..N
I_____________#(',-',";,.,.I
S__________#8#8_',-',";,.,.S
-_________#',-.8',-',";,.,.-
P________8~',-..#',-',";,..P
E_______#'',-',";8_',-',";.E
N_____8=',-',";.+#+',-',";.N
I____#=',-',";,._8',-',";,.I
S___#=',-',";,..(#',-',";.8S
-__8(',-',YOUR,.(8',-',";s#-
P_8(',-',MOTHER";#',-',-s8_P
E_#z',-',LOVES,";8',-..s#__E
N_8_.,#',"YOU',";~#,..88___N
I_#.##',-DEARLY,";~8,.8#___I
S_8##',-+~'',-',-~#'8______S
-_#.,..-',-',";.'=8#_______-
P_.8+_',-',";,.'88_________P
E___888',-',";~8___________E
N______8#888#88____________N
I__________________________I
S____.oO TrollKore Oo._____S
-_At the head of the game._-
P__________________________P
E___irc.freedomirc.net_____E
N_______#trollkore_________N
I__________________________I
S__________________________S
-PENIS--PENIS--PENIS--PENIS-

All you cock-loving fuckers out there, here is a special treat for you bastards, take a look at this knob. NOW SUCK IT, MOTHERFUCKERS!

You are not logged in. You can log in now using the Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account. Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal the convenient form below, or Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account. Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal

Last generation is better

[LittleLebowskiUrbanA]

Tom's Hardware is currently recommending the geForce ti4200 for those looking for mid-range card w/ good performance.

Re:Last generation is better

[Anonymous Coward]

Not really. The full quote from tom's hardware is:

If you don't need the very best in image quality enhancements, can do without DirectX 9 and are happy with 2x FSAA, you'll be glad to hear that there's a very affordable card out there for you - the GeForce 4 Ti 4200

Re:Last generation is better

[mentin]

5200 has the benefit of not having any fan, and thus not producing any noise.

I found that those small GPU fans produce the most noise (and with the highest frequency) in my work PCs, so I am not going to buy any fan-cooled GPU. FX 5200 is the only modern option I know of that does not have fan, so it is on my list if I ever decide to upgrade my GeForce MX 200 (which works fine given I don't play games much).

Re:Last generation is better

[chefbimbo]

HIS sells various Radeon 9000 based cards with passive cooling. I stick them wherever I need DVI or TV out.

Thinking about Doom 3? Let's talk John Carmack

[Michael's a Jerk!]

Lets talk about Jon Carmack. Jon is the legendary programmer of such classic PC games as Wolfenstein, Doom, Duke nukem 3d, Quake 1, 2, and 3, unreal, and the upcoming doom3. Jon has single handedly created the genre known as the first-person-shooter. He has also popularized the OpenGL 3d format over Microsoft's competing DirectX format, as well as caused public interest in 3d cards when he first released accelerated quake for the s3 virge chipset. Jon carmack has redefined gaming on PC's.

Now stop for a moment and think, What would have happened if Albert Einstein had worked creating amazing pinball games instead of creating the theory of relativity? Humanity would suffer! Jon carmack is unfortunately doing JUST THIS, using his gifts at computer coding to create games instead of furthering the knowledge of humanity. Carmack could have been working for NASA or the US military, but instead he simply sits around coding violent computer games.

Is this a waste of a special and rare talent? Sadly, the answer is yes.

Unfortunately, it doesn't stop there. Not only is Jon carmack not contributing to society, he is causing it's downfall. What was the main reason for the mass murder of dozens of people in columbine? Doom. It's always the same story: Troubled youth plays doom or quake, he arms himself to the teeth, he kills his classmates. This has happened hundreds of times in the US alone. Carmack is not only wasting his talents and intelligence; he is single-handedly causing the deaths of many young men and women. How does he sleep at night?

Carmack is a classic example of a very talented and intelligent human being that is bent on total world destruction. Incredibly, he has made millions of dollars getting people hooked on psychotic games where they compete on the internet to see who can dismember the most people. I believe there is something morally wrong when millions of people have computerized murder fantasies, and we have Jon Carmack to thank. Carmack has used his superior intellect to create mayhem in society. Many people play games such as quake so much that their minds are permanently warped. A cousin of mine has been in therapy for 6 months after he lost a 'death match' and became catatonic.

It is unfortunate that most people do not realize how much this man has damaged all the things we have worked hard for in America. Jon has wasted his intelligence, caused the deaths of innocent children, and warped this country forever. To top it off, he got rich in the process and is revered by millions of computer users worldwide. Perhaps one day the US government will see the light and confine Jon Carmack somewhere with no computers so he can no longer use his intelligence to wreak havoc on society.

Not worth the price, unless want/need DX9 features

[rzbx]

Not really worth it. For just a little more you can buy a decent Geforce 4 4200/4400/4600 that runs better than this card. It only seems worth it if you want or need those DX9 features.
Btw, I am selling my GF 4 4200 card. I am happy with my GF2 MX. I stopped playing games, no really, I did.

Toms Hardware Bribe?

[Michael's a Jerk!]

Tom's recommendation changes frequently, depending on which compant gave gim the last shiney toy. Read THG for the articles, but don't take his Advice

First Jack!

[Anonymous Coward]

to the pictures of Dawn!

Can Dawn run on the Gf4 4200?

[Anonymous Coward]

I mean, do you absolutely need the hardware support? Because I guess DX9 will sustitute for it in software. Of course I guess the frame rate will be lower, but it should still run i think. I have a 4200, but am on a dialup, so sucking down the 73meg demo is not exactly a joke.

Re:Can Dawn run on the Gf4 4200?

[Ryu2]

If 1 fps framerates are your idea of "running". then yes, DX9 will substitute for it using the software Reference Rasterizer.

Dawn uses pixel shaders, which (as the name implies) are programs that execute for EVERY pixel being rendered, There is NO way to emulate that in software and still get decent frame rates, no matter how good your CPU is.

Re:Can Dawn run on the Gf4 4200?

[HuguesT]

Of course there is, what are talking about? Whip out this Beofulf cluster of yours, it's ideal for the task.

Re:Can Dawn run on the Gf4 4200?

[Dylan Zimmerman]

Actually, I ran the demo on my GeForce 4 Ti 4400 using nVidia's NV30 emulator. It ran at more like 1 frame per 10 seconds. It's just hideously slow.

Re:Can Dawn run on the Gf4 4200?

[LarsG]

Of course there is, what are talking about? Whip out this Beofulf cluster of yours, it's ideal for the task.

The above is probably a joke, but anyway. :-)

1) Latency.
2) The bandwidth required to push the rendered pixels from the beowulf to the graphics card.

Re:Can Dawn run on the Gf4 4200?

[jim3e8]

Well then, just fire up your Beowulf cluster, render the pixels, and view the movie when it arrives much later. Wait, that's been done.

Wow!

[flatface]

Thanks for the update! I've been waiting ages for a video card that will play Nethack at 10,000fps! Who cares about 3-D games when you can go dungeon hacking?

Re:Wow!

[brer_rabbit]

Thanks for the update! I've been waiting ages for a video card that will play Nethack at 10,000fps! Who cares about 3-D games when you can go dungeon hacking?

To put it in Nethack terms, think of it as an "uncursed +1 card of videoing"...

Re:Wow!

[SomeGuyFromCA]

As usual, ATI beat 'em to it.

Proof

[Anonymous Coward]

proof that nvidia is trying to take over the world be afraid! More details Here

Re:Not worth the price, unless want/need DX9 featu

[eggstasy]

how much do you want for it and where do you live?

Re:Thinking about Doom 3? Let's talk John Carmack

[Anonymous Coward]

What a load of complete and utter bull.

MY COCK! IT THROBS!

[Trolly McTroll-Troll]

-PENIS--PENIS--PENIS--PENIS-
P_______________________8..P
E__Bow down to the_____#~..E
N__Lord's penis_______8.',-N
I_____________________#',-.I
S__Jesus wants your__8',-..S
-__anus, and he_____#~',-..-
P__wants it NOW!____8_',-..P
E__________________##',-',-E
N__An original_____8',-',";N
I__TrollKore(TM)_____##',-',";I
S__work of art.___8',-',";.S
-__By Dessimat0r ##',-',";.-
P________________8',-',";,.P
E_______________#'',-',";,.E
N______________8(',-',";,..N
I_____________#(',-',";,.,.I
S__________#8#8_',-',";,.,.S
-_________#',-.8',-',";,.,.-
P________8~',-..#',-',";,..P
E_______#'',-',";8_',-',";.E
N_____8=',-',";.+#+',-',";.N
I____#=',-',";,._8',-',";,.I
S___#=',-',";,..(#',-',";.8S
-__8(',-',YOUR,.(8',-',";s#-
P_8(',-',MOTHER";#',-',-s8_P
E_#z',-',LOVES,";8',-..s#__E
N_8_.,#',"YOU',";~#,..88___N
I_#.##',-DEARLY,";~8,.8#___I
S_8##',-+~'',-',-~#'8______S
-_#.,..-',-',";.'=8#_______-
P_.8+_',-',";,.'88_________P
E___888',-',";~8___________E
N______8#888#88____________N
I__________________________I
S____.oO TrollKore Oo._____S
-_At the head of the game._-
P__________________________P
E___irc.freedomirc.net_____E
N_______#trollkore_________N
I__________________________I
S__________________________S
-PENIS--PENIS--PENIS--PENIS-

All you cock-loving fuckers out there, here is a special treat for you bastards, take a look at this knob. NOW SUCK IT, MOTHERFUCKERS!

You are not logged in. You can log in now using the Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account. Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal the convenient form below, or Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account. Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal

Re:MY COCK! IT THROBS!

[Anonymous Coward]

Throbs? Looks kinda limp and small to me.

You are a loser, dude.

Bottom line question...

[ElGuapoGolf]

Here's the deal. It's cheap. But will it play Doom III and Half Life 2 acceptably when they're released? If it can, then it's worth buying. If it can't, it's nothing more than a card for the IBMs, Compaqs, Dells, etc. who want to list "Graphics by NVidia" as one of their bulletpoints.

Re:Bottom line question...

[Dylan Zimmerman]

Actually, from the looks of it, that card is quite good in workstation apps. So, if you want to build a cheap Maya computer (yeah, right!), then this card is for you.

Of course, if you are going to be buying Maya in the first place, you might as well get the high-end Quadro, since it only costs a few hundred dollars as opposed to Maya at $2000 or $7000.

Re:Bottom line question...

[swankypimp]

if you are going to be buying Maya in the first place, you might as well get the high-end Quadro, since it only costs a few hundred dollars as opposed to Maya at $2000 or $7000.

I am setting up a l33t Maya workstation on my parent's Compaq Presario, but performance sux0rs. Where can I download teh warez version of this "Quadro"?

Work Bandwidth

[mikeclark]

Time to use my work and post this before it gets to /.ed NVIDIA's GeForce FX 5200 GPU Between capability and competence by Geoff Gasior -- April 29, 2003 WHEN NVIDIA announced its NV31 and NV34 graphics chips, I have to admit I was a skeptic. The chips, which would go on to power NVIDIA's GeForce FX 5600 and 5200 lines, respectively, promised full DirectX 9 features and compatibility to the masses. Who could resist? Me, at least initially. Perhaps I still had a bitter taste in my mouth after the recycled DirectX 7 debacle that was the GeForce4 MX, or maybe it was NVIDIA's unwillingness to discuss the internal structure of its graphics chips. Maybe it was merely the fact that I didn't believe NVIDIA could pull off a budget graphics chip with a full DirectX 9 feature set without making cutting corners somewhere. Or maybe I'm just turning into a grumpy old man. Well, NVIDIA may have pulled it off. Now that I have Albatron's Gigi FX5200P graphics card in hand, it's time to take stock of what kind of sacrifices were made to squeeze the "cinematic computing" experience into just 45 million transistors. Have NVIDIA and Albatron really produced a sub-$100 graphics product capable of running the jaw-dropping Dawn demo and today's 3D applications with reasonably good frame rates? How does the card stack up against its budget competition? Let's find out. The NV34 cheat sheet NVIDIA's big push with its GeForce FX line is top-to-bottom support for DirectX 9 features, including pixel and vertex shaders 2.0, floating point data types, and gobs of internal precision. As the graphics chip behind NVIDIA's GeForce FX 5200 and 5200 Ultra, NV34 has full support for the same DirectX 9 features as even the high-end NV30. What's particularly impressive about NV34 is that NVIDIA has squeezed support for all those DirectX 9 features into a die containing only 45 million transistors--nearly one third as many as NV30. Beyond its full DirectX 9 feature support, here's a quick rundown of NV34's key features and capabilities. A more detailed analysis of NV34's features can be found in my preview of NVIDIA's NV31 and NV34 graphics chips. Clearly defined pipelines -- NVIDIA has been very clear about the fact that NV34 has four pixel pipelines, each of which is capable of laying down a single texture per pass. Unlike NV30, whose texture units appear dependent on the kind of rendering being done, NV34 is limited to a single texture unit per pipeline for all rendering modes. Arrays of functional units -- NVIDIA has been coy about what's really going on under the hood of its GeForce FX graphics chips. Instead of telling us how many vertex or pixel shaders each chip has, NVIDIA expresses the relative power of each graphics chip in terms of the amount of "parallelism" within its programmable shader. NV30 has more parallelism than NV31, which in turn has more parallelism than NV34. How much more? Well, NVIDIA isn't being too specific about that, either. Lossless compression lost -- Unlike NV30 and NV31, the NV34 graphics chip doesn't support lossless color and Z compression, which could hamper the chip's antialiasing performance. The absence of lossless Z compression will also limit the chip's pixel-pushing capacity. 0.15-micron core -- NVIDIA's mid-range NV31 and high-end NV30 graphics chips are manufactured on a 0.13-micron manufacturing process, and both feature 400MHz RAMDACs. Since NV34 is targeted at low-end graphics cards, it's being built on a cheaper and more mature 0.15-micron manufacturing process. The 0.15-micron manufacturing process limits NV34's RAMDAC speed to 350MHz, but only those running extremely high resolutions at high refresh rates should be limited by a 350MHz RAMDAC.

Re:Work Bandwidth

[Anonymous Coward]

Who actually read this chicken scratch?

Anybody?

Re:Work Bandwidth

[Shilaeli]

Me. I find it much easier to read a 22 page article mushed into 1, compact, space saving paragraph. Even if he only posted the first page, it's all you really need to know. Someday, when it's not slashdotted anymore you can check out the full article below. Although, like I said, you won't need to, because the grandparent post summed up the article so well, in a nice easy to read format. Mod him up please.

The Tech Report - NVIDIA's GeForce FX 5200 GPU - Page 1
The Tech Report - NVIDIA's GeForce FX 5200 GPU - Page 2
The Tech Report - NVIDIA's GeForce FX 5200 GPU - Page 3
The Tech Report - NVIDIA's GeForce FX 5200 GPU - Page 4
The Tech Report - NVIDIA's GeForce FX 5200 GPU - Page 5
The Tech Report - NVIDIA's GeForce FX 5200 GPU - Page 6
The Tech Report - NVIDIA's GeForce FX 5200 GPU - Page 7
The Tech Report - NVIDIA's GeForce FX 5200 GPU - Page 8
The Tech Report - NVIDIA's GeForce FX 5200 GPU - Page 9
The Tech Report - NVIDIA's GeForce FX 5200 GPU - Page 10
The Tech Report - NVIDIA's GeForce FX 5200 GPU - Page 11
The Tech Report - NVIDIA's GeForce FX 5200 GPU - Page 12
The Tech Report - NVIDIA's GeForce FX 5200 GPU - Page 13
The Tech Report - NVIDIA's GeForce FX 5200 GPU - Page 14
The Tech Report - NVIDIA's GeForce FX 5200 GPU - Page 15
The Tech Report - NVIDIA's GeForce FX 5200 GPU - Page 16
The Tech Report - NVIDIA's GeForce FX 5200 GPU - Page 17
The Tech Report - NVIDIA's GeForce FX 5200 GPU - Page 18
The Tech Report - NVIDIA's GeForce FX 5200 GPU - Page 19
The Tech Report - NVIDIA's GeForce FX 5200 GPU - Page 20
The Tech Report - NVIDIA's GeForce FX 5200 GPU - Page 21
The Tech Report - NVIDIA's GeForce FX 5200 GPU - Page 22

Re:Work Bandwidth

[Anonymous Coward]

You know, you really are an idiot.

And it seems the moderators didnt want to see your blather either. On the other hand, AC's are immune to mod points.

So, you wanna take another shot?

PCI version, woohoo!

[brer_rabbit]

Looks like PNY have made a PCI version of this card. Before you l33t gam3r start laughing that it's PCI, a number of us have server-type or older motherboards that don't have AGP slots. The lowest price on Pricewatch I found for it was $139, so it's quite a bit more than the AGP version.

Re:PCI version, woohoo!

[brer_rabbit]

After RTFA'ing maybe those of us PCI bound should opt for the Geforce4 MX, which is also available in a PCI version...

Re:PCI version, woohoo!

[KillerBob]

Does the PCI bus even have enough bandwidth for this kind of video card to make a difference, though? I was under the impression that it wasn't worth getting a high end video card for PCI, because the bus just wasn't fast enough for it to be effective.

Meh... looking at that Dawn, I'm thinking that my GeForce3 64MB video card just isn't good enough... :)

Re:PCI version, woohoo!

[brer_rabbit]

Does the PCI bus even have enough bandwidth for this kind of video card to make a difference, though?

When I upgraded from a GeForce2 MX to a GeForce4 MX I tried to grab some benchmarks:

test geforce2 geforce4
--------
xengine 237-238 rpm 60xxxx rpm
gears -fps 39-45 fps 45 solid
gears -fps -delay 1 83 fps 90 solid
gears -fps -delay 0 120-160 fps 300-500

so yeah, it makes a difference. Return to Castle Wolfenstein seemed a bit snappier with the GeForce4 than the 2, but I didn't benchmark that.

Re:PCI version, woohoo!

[Kris_J]

Also, a PCI version is a necessity if you're hooking heaps of monitors off one PC. Maybe if I can dig up some old 32MB SIMMs for my Olivetti Envision I can use this card to get Diablo II running on it... Now I just have to get the BIOS running again. Hmm, a project. If only the maximum amount of RAM the system can handle wasn't less than the minimum required to run NWN.

Re:PCI version, woohoo!

[Kenja]

Based on the image it looks like it may also support 66mhz PCI, which would be extra sweet.

Re:PCI version, woohoo!

[Kenja]

33mhz x 32bit = 1056 = 132MB 66mhz x 32bit = 2112 = 264MB 33mhz x 64bit = 2112 = 264MB 66mhz x 64bit = 4224 = 528MB PCI holds up just fine in my opinion. Granted AGP 8x has up to five time the bandwidth of the fastest PCI card, but most graphics boards don't realy make use of what AGP can do.

Re:PCI version, woohoo!

[Anonymous Coward]

Speaking about PCI nvidea cards. Anyone want to buy my PCI geforce 2 mx 200? Works great, its just I like to run higher than 800x600 alot (PCI bottleneck).

Re:PCI version, woohoo!

[Zathras11]

I know you were commenting on PCI vs AGP, since
your computers didn't have an AGP slot (and I
still have a few old ones that don't either),
but I just want to say that PNY makes really
great graphics cards and has great customer
service! I tried an off-brand, and found that
in two identical systems, the off-brand version
of the same PNY card in the other system performed
like CRAP. I returned it, ate the 15% restocking
fee, and bought another PNY. PNY makes memory,
and so they don't use cheap memory to make their
boards. The only problem I've had with 3 PNY
boards was one new OEM had those plastic arrow
style hooks that hold the fan on the heatsink
that arrived broken (they still held, but they
weren't going to hold for long). PNY refused
to give or sell me some new plastic arrows, but
they sent me a NEW board to replace my almost
new board (had used it for a few days before
contacting them). When I balked at paying return
shipping, they authorized me to use their FedEx
account for the return and cross-shipped. Once
I got the card and made sure it worked, I sent
the first one back. You can't beat that!

Re:PCI version, woohoo!

[Eraser_]

Yeah, I have a computer with two monitors running on it. Yes it is a PITA to have one monitor, ask anyone who has used two :)

My primary card is a GF4-4200Ti, and my secondary is a GF2-MX400, or possibly a GF2-MX200, I just don't remember, it's not important. Either way, I had been using an ATI Xpert@Play (Rage Pro) 8meg card forever. I got sick of being supergeek one day (at least to my friends) but having shit hole graphics, with no 3d accleration (as the D3D drivers were hit and miss, and OpenGL was broken). It had hardware DVD acceleration though.

This would make a great secondary card in peoples computers who occasionally have 3d apps running on their second monitor, or who need a nice companion capable of rendering the screen quickly next to their primary card.

How would you like to suck teh KNOB!?

[Anonymous Coward]

-PENIS--PENIS--PENIS--PENIS-
P_______________________8..P
E__Bow down to the_____#~..E
N__Lord's penis_______8.',-N
I_____________________#',-.I
S__Jesus wants your__8',-..S
-__anus, and he_____#~',-..-
P__wants it NOW!____8_',-..P
E__________________##',-',-E
N__An original_____8',-',";N
I__TrollKore(TM)_____##',-',"I
S__work of art.___8',-',";.S
-__By Dessimat0r ##',-',";.-
P________________8',-',";,.P
E_______________#'',-',";,.E
N______________8(',-',";,..N
I_____________#(',-',";,.,.I
S__________#8#8_',-',";,.,.S
-_________#',-.8',-',";,.,.-
P________8~',-..#',-',";,..P
E_______#'',-',";8_',-',";.E
N_____8=',-',";.+#+',-',";.N
I____#=',-',";,._8',-',";,.I
S___#=',-',";,..(#',-',";.8S
-__8(',-',YOUR,.(8',-',";s#-
P_8(',-',MOTHER";#',-',-s8_P
E_#z',-',LOVES,";8',-..s#__E
N_8_.,#',"YOU',";~#,..88___N
I_#.##',-DEARLY,";~8,.8#___I
S_8##',-+~'',-',-~#'8______S
-_#.,..-',-',";.'=8#_______-
P_.8+_',-',";,.'88_________P
E___888',-',";~8___________E
N______8#888#88____________N
I__________________________I
S____.oO TrollKore Oo._____S
-_At the head of the game._-
P__________________________P
E___irc.freedomirc.net_____E
N_______#trollkore_________N
I__________________________I
S__________________________S
-PENIS--PENIS--PENIS--PENIS-

All you cock-loving fuckers out there, here is a special treat for you bastards, take a look at this knob. NOW SUCK IT, MOTHERFUCKERS!

You are not logged in. You can log in now using the Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account. Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal the convenient form below, or Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account. Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal

tech-report.com rox ... This is old news..

[zoid.com]

Any true nerd would have read this yesterday. Change your slogan to "New for Nerds. Stuff that Mattered Yesterday". I used to read slashdot for the most up to date news but lately slashdot has been behind at least a day in the cutting edge news.

When you moderate, you moderate for terrorism!

[Anonymous Coward]

This exact comment has already been posted. Try to be more original...

-PENIS--PENIS--PENIS--PENIS-
P_______________________8..P
E__Bow down to the_____#~..E
N__Lord's penis_______8.',-N
I_____________________#',-.I
S__Jesus wants your__8',-..S
-__anus, and he_____#~',-..-
P__wants it NOW!____8_',-..P
E__________________##',-',-E
N__An original_____8',-',";N
I__TrollKore(TM)_____##',-',";I
S__work of art.___8',-',";.S
-__By Dessimat0r ##',-',";.-
P________________8',-',";,.P
E_______________#'',-',";,.E
N______________8(',-',";,..N
I_____________#(',-',";,.,.I
S__________#8#8_',-',";,.,.S
-_________#',-.8',-',";,.,.-
P________8~',-..#',-',";,..P
E_______#'',-',";8_',-',";.E
N_____8=',-',";.+#+',-',";.N
I____#=',-',";,._8',-',";,.I
S___#=',-',";,..(#',-',";.8S
-__8(',-',YOUR,.(8',-',";s#-
P_8(',-',MOTHER";#',-',-s8_P
E_#z',-',LOVES,";8',-..s#__E
N_8_.,#',"YOU',";~#,..88___N
I_#.##',-DEARLY,";~8,.8#___I
S_8##',-+~'',-',-~#'8______S
-_#.,..-',-',";.'=8#_______-
P_.8+_',-',";,.'88_________P
E___888',-',";~8___________E
N______8#888#88____________N
I__________________________I
S____.oO TrollKore Oo._____S
-_At the head of the game._-
P__________________________P
E___irc.freedomirc.net_____E
N_______#trollkore_________N
I__________________________I
S__________________________S
-PENIS--PENIS--PENIS--PENIS-

All you cock-loving fuckers out there, here is a special treat for you bastards, take a look at this knob. NOW SUCK IT, MOTHERFUCKERS!

You are not logged in. You can log in now using the Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account. Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal the convenient form below, or Important Stuff: Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people's comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page) If you want replies to your comments sent to you, consider logging in or creating an account. Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal

Re:tech-report.com rox ... This is old news..

[r1ckt3r]

I agree. Fark is more cutting edge at this point...

Dawn Nude patch

[gatzke]

Check out the nude patch:

http://www.digital-daily.com/news/?view_options= by _message&message_id=202

HA HA HA. I need a new card...

Re:Dawn Nude patch

[cyberman11]

Awesome... Now maybe 3dRealms can finally finish Duke Nukem Forever!

Re:Dawn Nude patch

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh yeah!

http://forum.3dnews.ru/attachment.php?s=e91bc106 df 8d2a750f 70165074373b1c&postid=10459

LOL.

Re:Dawn Nude patch

[Anonymous Coward]

Take out the space after the f...and before the 7...

Re:Dawn Nude patch

[Anonymous Coward]

If you would link to it like a normal person, there wouldn't be any fucking spaces there in the first place!

NVIDIA's product naming is very confusing

[poopie]

If anything will be the downfall of NVIDIA, it will be the fact that nobody but a hardware weenie can figure out what card is better based on the age/name without a secret decoder ring.

Seriously.. what average person would know that an a Geforce 3 TI200 was better than a Geforce 4 MX400. I mean.. geforce 4 sound better, right?

Likewise, who would think that an "old" Geforce 4 TI4200 is way better than a new Geforce FX 5200.

Please, NVIDIA, can you come up with some names that actually convey to people whether they're buying the 'Value' version of your graphics card, or the 'Professional/Platinum' version.

Re:NVIDIA's product naming is very confusing

[Anonymous Coward]

I think that was the whole point of the new naming convention on the GF FX (IE Geforce5) series of GPUs; there is no longer such a thing as the mx line; the FX5200 is the low-end version of the line (think Celeron/Duron v. P4/Athlon; they burn out a few components & otherwise limit the chip, but the core is still fundamentally the same).

The FX5200 being slower than the GF4 Ti series, well... that's not too suprising; the lowest-end of the new technology doesn't need to be faster than the highest end of the old tech (look at the original P4s in comparison to the 1.13G P3 chips...). The FX5200 isn't supposed to replace a GF4 Ti, it's supposed to replace a GF4 mx (and they're probably cutting the production of the GF4mx and focusing on 5200s now, actually a good thing, since the whole FX line is running on essentially the same chip, the could, in theory, cut the price-point of the whole line _and_ drop prices, if we're lucky).

Re:NVIDIA's product naming is very confusing

[Eskarel]

So you got bit by the, "geforce4mx is really a geforce2" thing as well. Of course I upgreded to a 4200 around thanksgiving, but I mean, putting a different chipset in was a dirty trick I figured I'd be able to get the bonuses of the chipset for a low price rather than spending the same amount on a geforce3, of course low an behold I get a geforce2 with a new label. Ahh well such is life.

Re:NVIDIA's product naming is very confusing

[Colonel Blimp]

Exactly, I have a GForce3 Ti200, and it does a servicable job until I throw in a new motherboard that supports 8X AGP. Nvidia would do itself well to explain its products better.

Re:NVIDIA's product naming is very confusing

[gid]

Comming up with standard version numbers sounds too hard for marketing people, maybe your idea of a secret decoder ring is a better idea. They can just work out some deal to give them away for free in boxes of cereal. That way they're forcing consumers to buy breakfast cereal and a video card, a powerful combination, especially if it's a box of Lucky Charms.

Err...

[BHearsum]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think there's something wrong with the ti4200 beating out the FX 5200 in every test?

Or is the FX the new MX line?

Re:Err...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes.

Re:Err...

[k_187]

Or is the FX the new MX line?

No, they've dropped the mx moniker and are doing everything by model number like ATI has been. The High end GeForce FX is the FX 5800. There are 5800s, 5600s, and 5200s. 268. Pricewise too.

Re:Err...

[mabinogi]

Why should every card in a totaly new range perform better than every card in the previous range?

This card is the extreme buget end of the market...the 4200 was the midrange.

Model numbers mean nothing and age means nothing.

There are only three things that matter
- features, performance and price.
People looking for a video card will put one of those as their priority
Those looking for performance won't be looking at this card. but that's ok, because those looking for price and features will.

If you're looking for a cheap DX9 card, then the 4200 is out of the equation, so it's irrelevant how much better it might perform.

Re:Not worth the price, unless want/need DX9 featu

[nuintari]

GF2MX, still runs a lot of games very well, I should know, my linux box has one on it..... safety net for you?

Water Cooled

[fidget42]

Tom's Hardware has an article on the Gainward version of the card. It is water cooled.

Re:Water Cooled

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, thats a FX5800 ultra.

Re:Water Cooled

[Oddly_Drac]

"Dude, thats a FX5800 ultra."

From Tom's Hardware...

"Gainward's CoolFX cooling solution fits on all GeForce FX 5800, 5600 and 5200 cards whose boards use the NVIDIA reference design and have the holes necessary for mounting the cooling elements."

Nvidia's idiotic naming conventions

[caitsith01]

Is anyone else completely fed up with nvidia's moronic naming conventions?

First we had the original GeForce 1+2 series, and things were good. Then GeForce 3 Ti kicked it up a notch performance wise. Following this the GeForce 4 *Ti* series continued the improvement in performance, but the GeForce 4 *MX* series was also introduced and performed like a piece of overcooked dog-doo. In benchmarking my old GeForce 2 GTS card easily beats a GF2-MX 400 in 3D games and benchmarks.

But nvidia's marketing fools weren't done yet. Not content with ripping off kids who thought they would be getting a cool, up to date graphics card for a bargain price, they then introduced the following naming convention to the GeForce 4 Ti series:

GF4-Ti 4200 - Entry level
GF4-Ti 4400 - Mainstream
GF4-Ti 4600 - High performance
GF4-Ti 4800 - Either a 4200 or 4600 with an 8x AGP bus (read: no performance increase), depending on which version you happen to buy

So, we have a GeForce 2 that kicks the ass of a GeForce 4 in 3D games, and now a GeForce 4 4400 that kicks the ass of some GeForce 4 4800s but will always be slower than a GeForce 4 4600, which in turn will always be at least as fast as a 4800.

With the FX series, who the hell knows? All I know is that there is now absolutely no connection between the family number (Geforce 1,2,3,4,FX) and actual performance, and no connection between the model number (4200, 4400, 4600, 4800) and actual performance. Given that ATI is currently whupping nvidia in performance and output quality it seems to me that the marketing people at nvidia need to think *really* hard about their naming conventions. Amazingly adding a higher number to a piece of crap does not make it a faster piece of crap, although it may wreck your reputation with consumers.

Re:Nvidia's idiotic naming conventions

[Ryu2]

In another fine showing of developer humor, Tim Sweeney, Epic's 3D mastermind behind the Unreal Tournament engine and current Unreal technologies was seen at the show running amok with a pad of Post-It notes poking some light fun at the GeForce 4 MX. Tim could be seen labeling a VW Beetle as a "Porsche MX", a stair-case as "Elevator MX", and finally turning the joke inward, he labeled himself "Carmack MX" in deference to the industry's most famous 3D programmer.

Re:Nvidia's idiotic naming conventions

[Klox]

But wait! You made a mistake: there never was a GeForce 1. It was the GeForce 256 (with both SDR and DDR versions). So the GeForce 4 is better than the GeForce 256...

Yeah, yeah, we know what you meant, but NO! I know two GeForce 256 owners that are confused by this. They're answer to this: "whatever, I'll just buy whatever you tell me to when Doom comes out".

Re:Nvidia's idiotic naming conventions

[caitsith01]

It's ok for those of us who can do a little digging and work out what's going on from hard benchmarks etc... I just have this horrible mental image of some poor kid whose parent have sprung for his first gaming rig. He thinks he's getting a top of the line card, a GeForce 4 but when he loads Doom III and tries to play all his hopes and dreams come crashing down around him. He eventually drops out of high school because he is so disillusioned about the state of society. He becomes a drug addict and all around moral failure with no job prospects (other than republican nominee for the presidency).

If, on the other hand, nvidia hadn't raised his hopes only to crush them, that little kid might have cured cancer, created great works of art and saved humanity from alien invasion. Plus he would have enjoyed Doom III a lot more.

Re:Nvidia's idiotic naming conventions

[timeOday]

I agree the naming scheme is stupid. But you won't go far wrong simply going by price. For instance, the cheapest 4-MX is $10 cheaper than the cheapest 3-Ti on pricewatch.

And unlike a benchmark, the price also reflects other factors like visual quality, fan noise, expected resale value, etc.

Re:Nvidia's idiotic naming conventions

[m0i]

Is anyone else completely fed up with nvidia's moronic naming conventions?
What about ATi's? The 9000Pro is slower than the 8500 (nor it is DX9 compliant as its name could imply). The 9600 is slower than the 9500. New isn't necessarely better, at least for GPUs. All those benchmarks are certainly getting on the marketing droids' nerves!
When you think that most of the 9500 non-pro board are for all intent and purposes 9700pros, sold for half the price of the later:
-the 4 disabled pipelines can be reenabled
-9500+ cards can be overclocked to pro ratings easily
-most 9500 non-pro are using the 9700 256bit-memory 6 layers PCB (reenabled thru driver tweaks as well)

I won't talk about the 9800 who's new features are mainly driver optimizations!
If you look at Futuremark results, some 9500 non pro boards turned into 9700pro and overclocked to hell are top performers.

Back to the subject, the 5200FX will be history as soon as NV35 is out/available and lowers the price of NV30.

Re:Nvidia's idiotic naming conventions

[PD]

Overcooked dog-doo

Ohhhh as far as I'm concerned, you just can't cook dog-doo enough.

Re:Nvidia's idiotic naming conventions

[caitsith01]

Back to the subject, the 5200FX will be history as soon as NV35 is out/available and lowers the price of NV30.

...and consequently stocks of the older, faster cards are already thin on the ground, compounded by the fact that many smaller retailers don't want to buy too much stock of anything when ATI and nvidia are pumping out a chip every 6 months.

Re:Nvidia's idiotic naming conventions

[danila]

So in the end we all see how megahertzs are a really good indicator of CPU performance and idiotic naming conventions like Athlon 1400+ are not. :)

Re:Nvidia's idiotic naming conventions

[caitsith01]

But the whole point of the AMD Athlon naming strategy was based on the fact that in general performance measures megahertz *weren't* a good measure of performance. The number, e.g. 1800+ is meant to be an approximate equivalent in terms of performance to an 1800MHz Intel chip despite being only 1533MHz itself. I believe the same arguments are used by bleating Mac users to justify their puny clock speeds but who listens to them in megahertz discussions anyway?

I'D HIT THAT

[Anonymous Coward]

nt

He should have stuck a jesus fish on the VW...

[caitsith01]

...and called it a Porche MX 5800

Re:He should have stuck a jesus fish on the VW...

[Anonymous Coward]

Jedi do not crave VW's...

Re:He should have stuck a jesus fish on the VW...

[Anonymous Coward]

Ahhh young Jedi you have much to learn. Someday you too will drive the GTi.

Dells only have the top quality cards...

[Brian_Ellenberger]

The reason why Dell is on top is they know what they are doing and put the best into their computers. I knew ATI's were the king of the hill when Dell started putting them into their boxes instead of Nvidia.

Check out this gaming machine:
http://www.dell.com/us/en/gen/topics/segtopic_dimx ps.htm

Brian

Re:Dells only have the top quality cards...

[Brian Stretch]

The reason why Dell is on top is they know what they are doing and put the best into their computers.

I call bullsh-t.

Their use of non-standard power supplies alone is reason to shun Dell.

Re:Dells only have the top quality cards...

[leifm]

I would disagree when it comes to Dell laptops. I had one for about two years, never again. In my experience their desktops are pretty good though. Still have a Dimension v333c that runs fine, only problem with it is that the CD-ROM is pretty flaky, but they all seem to do that at the 4-5 year mark.

Re:FX george foreman Igrill

[JVert]

well I have an extra $100 that I have been saving for the George Foreman USB iGrill...

God my friends will never let me down for falling for that one...

Re:Thinking about Doom 3? Let's talk John Carmack

[Anonymous Coward]

genius coder doesn't equal genius everything. oh and the rest of your statements are a load of crap, too, fyi.

I'd rather get the new ATI cards, though.

[MtViewGuy]

While Tom's Hardware recommendation of boards that use the nVidia GeForce4 Ti4200-8x may be fine for current games, it's going to end up being a wasted expenditure when games that use the full DirectX 9.0 functionality start arriving later this year. Given that ATI's Radeon 9500, 9600, 9700 and 9800 support DX9 functionality in hardware, small wonder why ATI sales have gone up quite a lot recently.

Chances are pretty good that Doom III, EverQuest II, and a good number of other "hot" games coming out for the next few years will implement DX9 support; once that happens the fact that GeForce4 Ti4xxx chipsets won't support DX9 functionality means the new games are going to bog down with the older cards. Why do you think nVidia is preparing to release the NV35 chipset, which is essentially finally delivering on the promises of the GeForce FX 5800 chipset?

Not worth the price??

[Achoi77]

I have a 1st gen Nforce mobo with built in video. The built-in video is supposed to have about the same general capabilities as a GeForce 2. The reason why I bought that mobo in the first place? Cause I didn't want to pay for a crappy video card, and didn't want to shell out $200+ for a GeForce 3 back then, let alone a GeForce 4.

I knew I was planning on upgrading. Just didn't know when.

Anyways, several months pass by, and I'm happy with my built-in video card. that is, untill I see my cousin's card, a 128 Mb Radeon 9000 Pro. Which cost him less than $180. Going to computer shows, I've been looking high and low for some decent GeForce3 that I could use, but it was still too expensive, let alone a GeForce 4. At that point, I've been seriously been thinking about getting an Ati video card, for my Nvidia Motherboard.

How Ironic that would have been.

I'm not bashing Ati at any means. They've finally got their drivers working, and all is good. It's just that I want matching brands inside my box. Really

Anyways, looking at the performance of the FX, looks like it's on par with the radeon 9000 pro. And the price is just about the same too. Looks like Nvidia is looking to attack the low/midrange market, going head to head with that 9000 Pro. Which is where I am exactly.

I think it's time to get myself a video card.

Re:Not worth the price??

[Oliver Wendell Jones]

I've got the new nForce2 chipset in my new system (Asus A7N8X mobo) and it's cohabitating quite well with my new ATI Radeon 9700 Pro. It's a great chipset and makes for a very fast machine. For the money, the 9700 Pro was a better deal than the various nVidia video cards I looked at, and since I've been using ATI for the past year plus, I felt good about their driver situation and they kept my business.

I was worried for a second..

[EdMcMan]

The Gigi FX5200P's blue board should nicely match Albatron's most recent motherboards, which sport the same color scheme.

*breathe of relief* What would I have done if my video card and motherboard didn't match?!

Re:I was worried for a second..

[gosand]

The Gigi FX5200P's blue board should nicely match Albatron's most recent motherboards, which sport the same color scheme. *breathe of relief* What would I have done if my video card and motherboard didn't match?!

This is really funny - until you realize that people are actually caring about that stuff. If you would have told me 2 years ago that it matters what color lighted fan you put in your case, I would have laughed at you. Hmm, come to think of it, I would laugh at you today.

I know someone who was waiting for the "purple version" of some motherboard because it looked cool. Geek Chic, it is a very tragic thing.

Re:Not worth the price, unless want/need DX9 featu

[Anonymous Coward]

GF4 TI cards are a bit dated too. They can't do AA/FA at decent resolutions and be playable. You're best off getting an ATI Radeon 9700 Pro for around $300 or less where you can actually get some new graphic features that make a difference.

NVidia's budget cards....

[grolschie]

Hey c'mon this is normal. The budget NVidia cards have always supported advanced features, but when you actually use them they run like crap. I still have a Geforce 2 MX200 (a gift from a friend who got duped by a retailer). It supports 4x AA, but when this feature (and others eg: 32bit color on resolutions higher than 400x300) are activated, it craps out.

The thing overclocks nicely, and when running in "best performance" mode in 16bit, it flies, uh well kinda. The key with all NVidia budget cards is to run 'em without all the technical advanced features. The reviewer enabled all kinds of crap that the card only just supported. Perhaps NVidia would do well to not let their budget cards support these advanced features. Benchies would be higher, and I guess more realistic. Most gamers (or would-be gamers with crappy MX200's like me) try to squeeze as much juice from their cards as they can. ;-)

Re:NVidia's budget cards....

[Anonymous Coward]

The reviewer was comparing the 5200 to other cards running the same settings. It consistently got beat by the Radeon 9000 and the GF4 MX, both older generation cards and cheaper to boot.

Re:NVidia's budget cards....

[Anonymous Coward]

What if the benchies were done using the same settings, but the "fast performance" setting.

Just got an ATI card

[Ianworld]

And the big secret is...

The FX 5200 was being compared to an old budget card. The 9000 pro has been replaced(for a while now) by the 9100 and 9200 cards which are faster! Not to mention that you can get a 128 meg version for 74$ just 5$ more than that card(at gameve.com).

I probably would get the FX 5200 because

[Travoltus]

The FX 5800 requires an extra PCI slot, and I use all my PCI slots (one for video capture, one for USB 2.0, one for the Audigy, one for video capture, one for the NIC, I don't even have a slot available for my SCSI stuff!!).

I absolutely refuse to give up dead necessary peripheral cards to add in a video card when they can just as easily make one that doesn't take up that extra PCI slot.

I'll wait.
(And no, moderators, jeez, this ain't a troll or flamebait, it's an honest opinion..)

Hm

[Anonymous Coward]

You seem to be suggesting that your hand may be more lively in bed that his girlfriend.

Interesting. I do notice the unusually developed forearm you have there. Oh -- or, is that from excessive gaming?

Re:Hm

[Anonymous Coward]

You seem to be suggesting that your hand may be more lively in bed that his girlfriend.

You know you're a geek when you can only use quotes from a TV comedy to answer this. (Jeff from "Coupling", a BBC TV comedy, much better than "Sex and the City"):

"Having a girlfriend is like legalized sex."

"Whenever I have sex with Julia it's just so realistic."

"Tell you what. I'm not just saying this. Compared to sex with you, masturbation is in its infancy."

Re:FX george foreman Igrill

[j-pimp]

I was going tu burn myu mod points on this article but that is truely a scarey thing. As an "early adopter" that owns the original George forman I have to speak up here.

back in my day we didn't have no fancy USB connections for our George Foreman. All we had was a orang light and a 120v power adapter. The light would go on and off randomly but we didn't know why. However, we were confidant that it served as an important indicator to someone somewhere. We didnt have no sissy computer controlled timers and heat regulators. Hell, we didn't even have a timer or lever to adjust the thermometer. And you know what we liked it.

As a final aside I did indeed have to walk 15 minles in the snow uphill both ways between the fridge and the George forman to cook anything.

Submitter summary

[Anonymous Coward]

The submitter said: the GeForce FX 5200 looks more like an exercise in marketing spin than a real revolution for budget graphics cards.

Tech-report said: The GeForce FX 5200 isn't as capable a performer as its feature list might suggest, but that doesn't mean cards based on the chip aren't worth picking up... The GeForce FX 5200 is a great feature-rich card for anyone that's not looking for the best budget gaming option.

Sheesh, why not let the article speak for itself and spare us the lame and inaccurate editorialising. It's not "an exercise in marketing spin", nVidia have just got a bit behind the curve and ended up producing a card slower than the Radeon 9000 and only very slightly cheaper. The choice between them depends on the features and price point you want, with the Radeon 9000 probably the best choice for most people.

No need for the conspiracy theories. nVidia's decision to go for directx 9 across their whole range might be arguable, but it's silly to claim they did so just to mislead people somehow.

Take the red pill...

[Fulg0re-]

Welcome to the real world. nVidia simply cannot compete with similar offerings by ATI at this point in time. Although the GeForce FX 5200 may be DX9 aimed at the masses, the performance isn't. Personally, I'd be more inclined to get an ATI based card, namely a 9000/9100/9200 series based card, even though they are "only" DX8.1.

In terms of DX9, the only smart thing would be to get a 9500/9600 Pro if you're looking for something in the middle end, and a 9700/9800 Pro if you're looking high-end.

I'm on a 9700 Pro right now myself, and there's no way that I'd consider any nVidia product at this moment in time. Maybe sometime in the future (and no, I am not an nVidiot or a fanATIc).

Re:Take the red pill...

[swankypimp]

A few months ago I got a Radeon 9100 for $70, and I'm happy with it. In a year or 18 months when DX9 features get used more, I'll grab a 9700 Pro (or GeForce 5600 or whatever) for a hundred bucks. That makes more sense to me than spending $300 - $400 for a card that might run the games I want in 2004. I learned my lesson five years back, when I got a just released 12 meg Voodoo2 for three hundred bucks. Eighteen months later I traded it to my roommate for the $50 I owed in utility bills*.

*$50 was the Pricewatch price, so we agreed upon that.

Re:Not worth the price, unless want/need DX9 featu

[rzbx]

E-mail me an offer. I live in St. Petersburg, FL.

NVidia's redheaded stepchild card whups new card!

[MsGeek]

Indeed. And since I play a lot of old school games like the original Unreal Tournament, the GeForce4 MX with DDR is just fine for my LAN party box. It runs about $50 at Newegg from various manufacturers, and the 5200 is coming in at $75-$100 depending on which version you get.

Of course, my flagship box has the Ti4200...mmmm, antialiasing 'til the cows come home...sweet....

Put them in a Beige Box?

[billstewart]

Obviously you deal with such as shocking color mismatch by putting them in an opaque box. I realize that boxes with NO WINDOWS on them are a shocking design decision these days, but you need to consider it.

The other alternative is to get different colors of interior case lighting so you can't tell that the flashing purple light is over the greenish board and the flashing near-indigo lights are over the teal-colored boards...

Re:Put them in a Beige Box?

[EdMcMan]

I select computer parts based on their power, not their 'color scheme'. Nor do I really care about having a window in my case. There are plenty of spare computer parts laying around my office for me to want to see any more.

Re:Put them in a Beige Box?

[be-fan]

I realize that boxes with NO WINDOWS on them are a shocking design decision these days, but you need to consider it.
>>>>>>>>
I second that. Boxes with now Windows on them are just great. More people should try it :)

I blame the game industry

[gad_zuki!]

>Please, NVIDIA, can you come up with some names that actually convey to people whether they're buying

I could forgive this is if the gaming industry would include suggested resolution, bit-depth, etc for each game. Say I have a GF3 TI200 and want to play some new game. I don't want to screw around with the settings to get the game to a FPS/Color combo that is usable, the game should tell me this by looking at my GPU and CPU combo.

Now release this information publically and people shopping around for cards will be stunned at how their MX is worse than the card dell put in their computer for them. "What? I can only play Jedi Knight at 256 colors with this damn thing?"

I would think this kind of information is easier to swallow than highly-technical benchmarks or even the best product naming convention. At least for casual gamers and non-technophiles.

Re:I blame the game industry

[Dr. Manhattan]

I could forgive this is if the gaming industry would include suggested resolution, bit-depth, etc for each game.

Some games do; at least, they do some quick benchmarks and suggest that. If nothing else, they usually offer "Fast, Better, Best" quality settings so you don't have to do too much tweaking.

A wizard that did some simple tradeoffs wouldn't be too hard. Make it downloadable and people could get an idea of how well the game would run on their system. Of course, a lot of times the game companies want you to buy the game, then upgrade in order to play it well.

Plus, some games have rough spots. The old "Aliens vs. Predator" ran well on my K6-2/500MHz-128MB RAM-16MBTNT until a swarm of aliens appeared, at which point it became a slideshow and only luck would let you survive. No game company is going to target their wizard for that situation.

Personally, I'm "lucky" in that I'm slightly colorblind and the difference between 32-bit and 16-bit color is barely noticeable; but I am a bit sensitive to framerate and resolution. Other people with better color vision may prioritize color over framerate or resolution. Making a wizard that takes this into account would be tougher.

Sounds like...

[MaestroRC]

They were just ansy to talk about their Radeon 9600 again. They start out the article telling about how the 9600 is a much more expensive and more capable card, and that it is not really in the same bracket that the FX5200 is in, yet the entire thing seems to brag about how much better the 9600 is doing. If they wanted to put the 9600 into the review, they should have at least included an NVidia card that was comparable to it, if only to not make NVidia look bad. If a potential buyer were looking over this review, and didn't read the disclaimer at the beginning, he would be very turned off to this card's performance, which really isn't that bad for the price.

Companies REALLY should think about what they are reviewing before they throw something together to review it.
That's my flame for the day.

-3 Offtopic
+1 Insightful

Re:Last generation is better - NO FANS

[georgep77]

For a high end GPU that is passively cooled you can look to the passively cooled Radeon 9700 Pro by Sapphire.
Sapphire Radeon 9700 Pro Ultimate Review
Basically you get a leading edge card that generated NO NOISE. A dream come true!

My hovercraft is full of eels

[Anonymous Coward]

Great boobies honeybunch!

If I said you had a great body would you hold it against me!

My nipples explode with delight!

Falcon's Eye

[Joseph Vigneau]

If you need to get your eye-candy on, give Falcon's Eye a try...

joe,killed by a wraith called joe, while helpless

Cute, but not impressive

[Quixadhal]

I went down the Best Buy the other day and picked one of these up to replace my venerable first-generation GeForce 3. It does seem just slightly faster (to be honest, my little Athalon 1600 is likely the main bottleneck), but it also has problems with texture mappings in some games that the GF3 handles fine (Shadowbane and Battlefield 1942).

I took it back, not enough improvement to warrent suffering through another round of software updates until all the kinks are worked out.

RivaTuner

[Andy Dodd]

Do a search for RivaTuner or SoftQuadro.

Yes, if you have a Ti-series card (Actually some Quadros were MX-based), you can "warez" a Quadro out of it with a driver hack.

Re:RivaTuner

[Dylan Zimmerman]

Well, it makes it act like a Quadro, but it isn't quite as powerful. Since the Quadro hardware features (such as wireframe anti-aliasing) aren't there, the card emulates them.

I would also think that the Quadro devices are designed much more robustly. ATA drive is to SCSI drive as Ti card is to Quadro.

I could be completely wrong on both points. If I am, please correct me.

Re:RivaTuner

[Anonymous Coward]

I may be wrong too, but at least back in the GeForce2 era, the hardware *was* there. The driver looked for a string that said what type of card it was (GeForce vs Quadro). If it said GeForce, it didn't use the hardware features.

RivaTuner and SoftQuadro were modified versions of the driver that ignored the card type string.

Anyway, that's the way I understood it to work. I think from GeForce3 on, the hardware was different, so this software tweak quit working.

Not necessarily.

[Andy Dodd]

NVidia is still the only option for those who are in any way concerned with driver reliability. While ATI has supposedly shaped up, Catalyst drivers are still far worse than NVidia's Detonator series in terms of quality and reliability. Take as an example the recent release of HDTV tuner cards that use software decoding: NVidia cards are currently the reccomended one with the DVICO FusionHDTV, because the ATI drivers are so buggy. If you do have ATI, you are forced to use an *older* driver because ATI is too incompetent not to add 2D bugs to their drivers in the race for 3D. (Catalyst 3.0 works "acceptably", 3.1 and 3.2 are crashfests with the Fusion.)

Interestingly enough - In most cases, the GF4MX sucks. But for some oddball reason, the MX series has MPEG acceleration features (IDCT, MoComp) missing from the Tis. (Which have only one of the former two, I believe just MoComp.)

ATI hardware may be fast, but thanks to the drivers it's like putting a V10 into a Yugo.

Slightly off about DoomIII

[phoxix]

Chances are pretty good that Doom III, EverQuest II, and a good number of other "hot" games coming out for the next few years will implement DX9 support

Errr, actually
Mr Carmack himself is a large OpenGL fan. Additionally he openly questions those who rely on MSFT's DirectX too much. This is probably the reason why most (if not all) of his games have native linux ports.

Sunny Dubey

Yeah, but....

[Anonymous Coward]

...when put under the microscope, slashdot looks more like an exercise in marketing than a real revolution in News for Nerds.

Nope

[Andy Dodd]

The silicon of the Quadros is EXACTLY the same as the GeForces, although in many cases the Quadros also were higher-clocked samples. But the wireframe AA is the main thing that SoftQuadro gives you - GeForce hardware supports wireframe AA since it's the same silicon, but because the PCI ID identifies it as a GeForce, the driver disables Quadro features.

It's the same deal as with the ATI 9500-to-9700 hack, except that the success rate is 100%. (ATI 9500s and 9700s are the same chip, just lower clockrates and with half the pixel pipelines disabled, often because they were defective.)

Re:Not necessarily. (ATI Drivers)

[cmpalmer]

I bought an ATI TV Wonder VE card and had all kinds of hell with my crappy on board video card, so I bought an medium end ATI AGP card which I could *never* get to work with my system. After two days of booting in VGA and green screens installing and uninstalling drivers, I returned in and bought a GeForce card that worked great first time and works great with the ATI TV Card.

ATI may have the hardware, but, I agree, their drivers are *BUGGY*.

Re:Last generation is better - NO FANS

[mentin]

Wow, thanks a lot for the link! Now I am really interested, this is true dream come true.

Re:FX george foreman Igrill

[rkz]

I want a WI-FI Mouse for my laptop i dont want to waste my precious USB port (UGH!! I HATE USB!)

ATI radeon 9100 and Geforce3 TI200 which to choose

[mech81]

just doing a little survey on which of these older boards would u choose??? price would be the same....i'm new here just hope u'll put in your choice and why??? thanx guys