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Caldera vs. Microsoft Court Documents To Be Shredded
Geste writes "As now being reported in this brief story and on my local (Seattle) NPR affiliate, 3 million court documents from Caldera's unfair competition suit against Microsoft are to be shredded in Utah. The timing relative to Microsoft's recent licensing of SCO Unix IP is undoubtedly a complete coincidence.
"
And available here.
Call (206) 338-5780 COLLECT for information about a genuine BA, BS, MA, MS, MBA, or Ph.D.
The article doesn't say, who ordered the shredding?
Ryan T. Sammartino
"Ancora imparo"
Most of it is then made into toilet paper.
How ironic indeed...any word on which manufacturer will get the pulp (I want to get me some of that!)
Q: "Why do sound techs say 'check 1, 2'?"
A: "Cause if they could count any higher they'd be lighting techs."
...Is it even legal to destroy cour documents? To save space? Couldn't they digitize them? This just seems like a way to hide information, and information like this could hardly have a good reason to be hidden.
If your theory is different from practice, then your theory is wrong.
Now I'll wonder, every time I use the john, if this piece of paper once made Microsoft embrace Unix...
(okay, so I'm stretching things just a little)
The Spoon
Updated 6/28/2011
And just this morning I was asking myself, what's Fawn Hall up to these days?
If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
it should make for a more comfortable wiping experience than the Windows 95 cd I currently use. Not as satisfying though.
Now SCO's IPs are in my toilet too..
How will I know if I'm buying microsoft toilet-paper? I'll just feel it in my bones. This is why I've been reading /. for so long, so that I can just feel that sort of thing. Also, if I have to sign a EULA or something before using it, I'll know.
Plus, I'm just going to use the single-ply sheets that look like normal paper- not the double-ply, flowery, squishy toilet-paper that I'm sure will have come from microsoft. Just something to get the job done, and something that won't break. That's what I need.
Making stupid comments so you don't have to.
It is scheduled to be the single most interesting thing that has EVER happened in Utah.
Finally, math books without any of that base 6 crap in them.
With the CD you can cut little star notches in the central hole to make a poop extruder device. Very classy way to shit.
"...they'll be made into toilet paper"
For use in the new ILOO.
The article doesn't say, who ordered the shredding?
Geeez, did you or any of the people modding you up to 5 even read the article?
Oh wait, this is Slashdot, never mind. Oh well, I'm sure you will read it the next four times this story gets repeated.
And I quote the article:
YOU FAIL IT.
Or maybe not.
Yes it did. Shredding was requested of the judge in the Caldera/M$ case by SCO in October. Judge agreed. SCO contracted the schredding by some shredding company. Sun got an injunction to stop the shredding, got 40 boxes of documents, scanned them, returned them, and the rest is now being shredded.
You got anything else you need read, you just let me know.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
Because I just did, and a few things just leap right off the page:
/. post, it somehow seemed that I should find a picture in the article showing Darl McBride feeding reams of paper, all entitled "Damning Internal Documents of Antitrust Violations", into an industrial-strength shredder while Bill Gates, dressed in a Halloween Satan costume, danced in glee in the background. Funny how /. doesn't mention that some of the documents are being preserved.
/. thinks this is somehow important or damning to Microsoft or SCO, why wasn't this mentioned two weeks ago? Or in October, when SCO obtained permission to shred the documents?
::adjusts asbestos underwear::
1)In October, the company persuaded U.S. District Judge Dee Benson to order their destruction.
Because, as we all know, in October Microsoft and SCO were already in collusion to cause this big ruckus. Or maybe SCO was just tired of shelling out the cash to store the documents related to a long-finished case, and was trying to save a little money.
2) However, just as the shredding was to begin, Sun Microsystem's attorneys halted it with a subpoena. The company, seeking evidence that might help in its own antitrust suit against Microsoft, eventually pulled out 40 boxes of the computer giant's secret internal communications for digital imaging.
That's funny, by reading the
3)Meantime, the shredding and pulping of the remaining records has been under way for about two weeks.
So, if
Look, guys, I'm all for the downfall of Microsoft and the phoenix rise of Linux (and OS X, but hey, I'm weird), but couldn't we try for maybe just a teensy bit of objectivity?
Okay, flame away.
Arr! The laws of physics be a harsh mistress!
I'd like to see the statistics for that, I consider that highly unbelievable. Though if the teenage pregnancy rate is above national average what is that compared to the relative number of abortions in other states?
Oh by the way I live in Utah, I would have to say the average age of marriage is 21 for men, and around 19 for women.
You can never fail unless you give up.
This is very offtopic, but more interesting, try to submit an article on it, if I had mod points right now, I'd mod you up. All I have to say is "wow".
If someone have a copy of the SCO source code maybe make a Torrent file, so we can start analysing if they indeed stole something. A few nuggets will go a long way to quash the FUD from SCO. Anyone know where old SCO bug reports can be gooten?
Quote:
6. Possible License Violations Within The Kernel Source
Elsewhere, Christoph Hellwig replied to the original post as well, saying:
As somone who walked for SCO (or rather Caldera how it was called at that time) I can tell you this is utter crap. There were very people actually doing Linux kernel work then (and when the German office was closed down all those left the company) and we really had better things to do then trying to retrofit UnixWare code into the linux kenrel. Especially given that the kernel internals are so different that you'd need a big glue layer to actually make it work and you can guess how that would be ripped apart in a usual lkml review :)
It might be more interesting to look for stolen Linux code in Unixware, I'd suggest with the support for a very well known Linux fileystem in the Linux compat addon product for UnixWare..
Jim Nance said, "Wouldnt it be halirous if whatever code SCO is talking about when they say there is Unix code in Linux turns out to be code some SCO employee ripped out of some GPL program and stuck it into Unixware. That is actually far more likely than what they alledge."
Help fight continental drift.
CmdrTaco posting an article first just doesn't feel right...
I thought courts would only admit hardcopies and not scanned documents. Seems like Sun is wasting money to scan those old documents...
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
I think that Linux source is more likely to make it into SCOs tree then the other way around. I should do a ask slashdot on this but we know that doesn't work so I posted it in the closest related article.
Mike
So....will the resulting toilet paper be used in the Iloo?!?
it's a discussion forum
use it as such
i come here for the people, do i really care what CmdrTaco's technological alliance is?
it certainly wouldn't change my opinion about anything, so what's the difference as long as he keeps running a message board where i can say what i want?
In other news, the Bavarian Illuminati still control IBM and the Pentagon, the Gnomes of Zurich own the Republicans and the South American Nazis, and the UFOs have infiltrated FoxTV and the Semiconscious Liberation Army fnord.
Someone you trust is one of us.
Irrelevant of the fact that SCO and MS are a bunch of lying cheating fucks, it's unreasonable to ask anyone to spend thousands of dollars to continue storing documents that are useless to them.
You have a problem with these documents being destroyed? Get a court order to stop it, and scan in anything that you think is important. IBM may very well have cause to do so, as may the OSI. Undoubtely, the timing is obviously suspicious, but I doubt there's anything of particular value in the 897 remaining boxes of legal documents. If there is, then those interested in it should pay for the storage of the documents, not a corporation which has absolutely no use for them.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Kinda feels like finding out Zion was created by the machines...
For some Utah stats, with sources, try this page. Sources at at the bottom of the page.
http://www.lds.org
My guess is that M$ wants (and probably gets) some veto power over top-level articles. Call it damage control.
I doubt they can influence the mood or discussion-content of slashdot. But if they are able to stop the most damaging top-level stories and occassionally seed a M$ warm story in combination with paid users that ensure that the tempo of the discussion under those stories follows a certain track, they are achieving something black and sinister in our backyard.
I would be delighted to see a completely community funded slashdot clone hit the airwaves, perhaps on freenet... But I think it will be a few years before the grass-roots for such a thing is bitter enough to make it happen...
M$ is slowly, but surely, sewing the seeds of it's own destruction through black ops... So be it...
Why is this modded +5? All you have to do is search for "murberry slocomb" on google and you'll get: "Your search - "Murberry Slocomb" - did not match any documents. " As a matter of fact, just search for any page with the two words "murberry" and "slocomb" and you'll still find 0 hits. According to switchboard.com, there is not a single business in the US with "murberry" in its name, and only one (listed) person in the US has a last name of Murberry. None of your links tie your statements together. You link to a generic page which shows SEC filings for VA, but nothing on that page ties it to "Murberry". You link to the board of directors for VA, but again, you don't link them in any way to "Murberry". And why didn't you provide a link to any page which links OSDN to "Murberry?" You claim that you found these links using lexis-nexis because you know that most people don't have a (very expensive) subscription to that database. Nice try. Anyone with an educational/legal subscription to lexis-nexis: Please do a quick search and refute this guy's claim completely.
It could explains why there is so much msft advertising
Scanned documents have been an accepted legal practice since at least the Pennzoil/Texaco lawsuit days. Pennzoil won a few Billion dollars from Texaco and went on a scanning spree and wasted few million when the market was just getting Windows for Workgroups (Yech - 3.11).
;)
The requirement is that the scan documents have to be written to WORM (Write Once Read Many) media. At the time we were using 5GB optical platters (pretty advanced in its day).
I will never forget the MIS director Barbara saying that we should just "delete" the documents from the WORM platters so that we could use that room for other information.
Seems that the concept of WORM was unknown to her. She didn't support macros either, thought everything should be hand-coded, even when it was boring and repititious. I used to write macros back then to massage the DB and would have them running on 5 or 6 PCs at once. Drove the suits crazy. They thought I wasn't doing anything (until they looked at the machines working - then they looked like deer caught in the headlights - didn't quite know what to do).
This was back in 1988 or 89, so the concept isn't new - and has been around for a very longe time. Before that it was a little thing called Microfiche - film on tapes, often stored in little cassette like rolls. Of course, that just shows my age.
All Ad hominem replies happily ignored as the sender shall be deemed to lack the faculties to comprehend the equation.
Tis here, my friend I bet if you search hard enough, you WILL find a duplicate of every taco post.... Its the new urban ledgend everyone keeps talking about..
sco: "hey bill, if ya help us validate our claims against IBM, we'll get rid of all these nasty documents..."
/me puts on his tinfoil hat.
bill: "I could crush you so fast It wouldn't be funny. Don't mock us."
sco: "it'll help save your ass against linux in the long run...."
bill: "where do I sign?"
My guess is the conversation went something like that. everyone seems to have the sneaking suspicion that microsoft and SCO are in cahoots, but it's all circumstancial evidence.
I wonder if there's another part of the story that is still hidden... something that will cause REAL problems in a month or two.
Looking for Book Reviews? Check out Literary Escapism.
Sorry man, lexis-nexis turns up some hits.
If yu have Freenet Installed
For Those who don't
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
C'mon, you must have some idea or you wouldn't keep posting this.
Five years ago I doubt Slashdot was on Microsoft's radar. They probably just thought OSDN was a new software operation that might invent something they could buy up later. Or if it looked like turning into a threat just withdraw the funding and, hey-presto, another dead competitor.
Was Slashdot even a part of OSDN five years ago?
Then copy/paste them, maybe?....
...says that there may be some useful information in the sealed documents in the court battle between Caledera/SCO and Microsoft.
It's interesting that this airs today.
http://www.sltrib.com/2003/May/05212003/business/b usiness.asp
However, just as the shredding was to begin, Sun Microsystem's attorneys halted it with a subpoena. The company, seeking evidence that might help in its own antitrust suit against Microsoft, eventually pulled out 40 boxes of the computer giant's secret internal communications for digital imaging.
Paul Grewal, Sun's Cupertino, Calif.-based attorney, said the task was being wrapped up as of late Tuesday.
"We began [scanning] a couple of months ago, and most of the work is now done. We expect to wrap it up shortly," he said.
Even if Microsoft had the power to veto top stories, they wouldn't. Remember, there is no such thing as bad publicity.
Also, someone who rants constantly about something will be taken less seriously than someone who points out a few key facts once in a while.
The masses are the crack whores of religion.
I just did a rather (I'm sorry to say) extensive search of Lexis Nexis, and nothing came up. I looked through the regular news (nothing relevent came up) and business news. I also checked the Lexis-Nexis company listings, which also showed no results for "mulberry slocomb". You can tell it is a hoax just by reading the post though. It looks very similar to many other expose posts that have appeared on slashdot. I'm just pissed that I can't get myself to do some quick research on my final papers, but of course, I'll do some research on a fictional company that some guy on slashdot made references to. Oh well.
"Ninety-nine percent of our shreddings are made into toilet paper."
It'll be soothing to wipe my ass with something that deals with Microsoft.
-- If we don't stand up for our rights, now, there will be no right to stand up for them later.
Most of it is then made into toilet paper ... so does the EULA fit on one-ply or two-ply? Do you have to break the seal by peeling the sheets apart?
This space for rent.
Of course it had nothing to do with the fact that the case is over and there is no legal reason to keep 6 tons of paper in the back room (most of which is copies of other documents or printouts of electronic files)
Great, you just spoiled the whole movie for me. Thanks.
The documents have been imaged for permanent storage, so the destruction of the paper records is not a big thing.
Not all solutions have problems.
Microsoft is peeved at IBM's Linux propaganda. So as not to get themselves involved in delicate situations, they become friends with the financially struggling foe (remember Corel?), and get them to do the dirty job. To pretty things up they licence SCO technology, SCO interfaces with Active Directory and so on.
Microsoft is really attempting to kill two birds with one stone: kill SCO/Caldera and piss off anyone shipping Linux, specially IBM.
This will be an interesting show indeed...
I've often had to publicly defend Microsoft against what I felt were acts of scapegoating from whining competitors (including Novell, Borland, Lotus, and Wordperfect), complaints which remind me of the way some Americans like to blame Japan for what are ultimately our own domestic problems.
Funny how the US Government later decided that M$ did indeed engage is such practices. Andy and DDJ should be ashamed of that article.
Let's see how the US government saw things. The jucky bits about DRDOS have been dug up by others. Have a look at M$ email for yourself. It was orchestrated from the start to crush an admitedly superior technology, included abouse of Microsoft's own custormers and malicious PR. Anyone who says differently has been proven a fool.
The destruction of court records is evil because it burries evidence of wrongdoing by a convicted monopolist that has yet to be punished and is proceeding as if nothing at all had happened. These letters may be published elsewhere, but they need to be preserved in context if an objective history is to be written. There's no telling what goodies the Caldera folks dug up before they became M$'s next shill. Evidence of Microsoft's concerted effort to eliminate free software is going to be lost.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
There is no way the Open Source movement can be stopped. Does M$/SCO think this crap they're pulling will succeed in stopping Linux? I foresee the community doing the following:
1. write around SCO's disputed IP in the next Linux kernel.
2. write a whole new OpenSource OS that's better than Unix or Windoze (like BE was supposed to be).
There's just way too many smart people out there contributing, and the good stuff spreads like wildfire.
Like the RIAA, MS should realize that their closed ways of doing business are over and move on. Figure out new revenue streams based on actually adding value with what you do.
You expect Sun to fight for free software? Nope, they only care about java and other Sun stuff.
Irrelevant of the fact that SCO and MS are a bunch of lying cheating fucks, it's unreasonable to ask anyone to spend thousands of dollars to continue storing documents that are useless to them.
SCO did not think $1,500/month was an unreasonable price between the 2000 settlement and six months ago. All this shows is that SCO changed their business model in October of 2002. That must be the date that they gave up fighting M$ and being a software compnay once and for all. This silly Linux suit came shortly thereafter.
Important evidence of Microsoft's anti-competitive behavior and longstanding hatred of free software is going to be destroyed. I imagine that the EU, which is also investigating M$ anti-trust, will not be amused and it's just one more reason to get away from M$ junk. They have to burn these records because they are lying to you.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
They can store them at my house for a mere $500 a month.
"I'm not impatient. I just hate waiting." - My Dad
Funny. I'm searching lexis-nexis right now, and can't find a single reference to Murberry-Slocomb for "All available dates". Nothing about VA Software filing the cited form either.
Looks like a hoax to me.
This has all ingredients of a banana republic.
Just auction it off on ebay.
"937 boxes of documents from the SCO vs. Microsoft case; you must register this with the appropriate judge, and may not destroy it, but you can have your own little piece of Microsoft dirt! This lot contains boxes #237-244. A digitized list of the contents of each box is as follows:..."
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
Our "justice" system fails again. The proof of Microsoft's illegal actions should not be allowed to be destroyed. Rather pathetic nobody with the money has cared enough since this sad story first appeared on Slashdot to buy up the documents. But I said as much before. Gates will probably buy the TP so he can express his concept for the law.
Only 1400 lbs per bale, to be sold to the highest bidder. So....
buy one
sell it by the pound on ebay
The company shredding these is called Recall Secure Destruction. Perhaps it is from this or this. The name graphics are the same.
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
Do these documents just dissapear forever? Or does the gov't keep electronic copies? It seems very strange that all that information can just be destroyed. It does mention that Sun is scanning the documents but I would think the gov't should keep copies of everything.
The link to this artical is pointless. And a bad example of journalism. Yeah great, they're making toilet paper out of stuff from a law suit involving microsoft. This tells me nothing. As they say, the devil's in the details. Before approving this kind of thing in the future, you might want to wait until more credible content is available.
Thanks for the info. I work for a state agency in the world's 5th/6th largest economy and our legal department made us keep hardcopy records because they erred in stating digitized copies could not be used as evidence in future cases...guess that simply means that government rarely hires the sharpest tools in the shed... :)
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
...when we need them?
Software is as important as anything else. Any legal action will be rendered successless by M$' money. I can't help, but I believe that terrorism will become the common way to express the will of the people since every other way is blocked by large companies.
Don't give me any examples about how to do this in a legal way. You'll make me just laugh...
- SCO attacks Linux.
- Microsoft supports SCO by paying them a lot of money for their patents, at the same time validating SCO's lawsuit.
- SCO destroys evidence that Microsoft is a monopolist.
...that wipes you.
there's no place like ~
This idea occurred to me that there may be some outcomes that MS does not want discovered. The SCO suit could backfire in a very large way into MS-land. Not an outcome they would want.
Any takers on the idea that the SCO "license" could be as temporary as the Corel cash infusion and quick withdrawal?
MS - promises a great ride, but pulls out too quickly.
All Ad hominem replies happily ignored as the sender shall be deemed to lack the faculties to comprehend the equation.
What are you talking about? The whole point of Andy's appology was that the bugs are elswhere and what a great company M$ is to get along with anyone. It was pure appology and bullshit. If you follow the link I provided, you will see that Microsoft intentionally broke their competitor's code to eliminate them. This is a direct refutation of much Microsoft bullshit, from Microsoft own mouth.
Let's quote a few chunks for you:
Microsoft's David Cole emailed Phil Barrett on September 30 1991: "It's pretty clear we need to make sure Windows 3.1 only runs on top of MS DOS or an OEM version of it," and "The approach we will take is to detect DR DOS 6 and refuse to load. The error message should be something like 'Invalid device driver interface."
Brad Silverberg, the Microsoft exec who had been responsible for Windows 95, emailed Jim Allchin (now Senior Vice President of MS) on September 27th 1991: "after IBM announces support for dr-dos at comdex, it's a small step for them to also announce they will be selling netware lite, maybe sometime soon thereafter. but count on it. We don't know precisely what ibm is going to announce. my best hunch is that they will offer dr-dos as the preferred solution for 286, os 2 2.0 for 386. they will also probably continue to offer msdos at $165 (drdos for $99). drdos has problems running windows today, and I assume will have more problems in the future."
Jim Allchin replied: "You should make sure it has problems in the future. :-)".
Andy Hill emailed David Cole, Windows group manager: "Janine has brought up some good questions on how we handle the error messages that the users will get if they aren't using MS-DOS. The beta testers will ask questions. How should the techs respond: Ignorance, the truth, other? This will no doubt raise a stir on Compuserve. We should either be proactive and post something up there now, or have a response already constructed so we can flash it up there as soon as the issue arises so we can nip it in the bud before we have a typical CIS snow-ball mutiny."
The point of all this is not to blame M$ for things that go wrong, it's that you can't ever rule it out. Microsoft is a dishonest company and you are better off having nothing to do with them at all. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. One such incident was good enough for me.
Even still, the moitves, depth of malice and planning is shocking. You have to wonder what goodies Caldera dug up are now going into toilet paper. It's apparent that Microsoft not only lied about what they were doing, they got others to lie on their behalf. The findings of fact on the Netscape trials showed that nothing at Microsoft had changed since they disposed of OS/2, DRDOS and other competing OS. Only a fool would countinue to trust them or their software for their business recoords.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Moderators: PLEASE mod down the parent!
GEEZ man.. READ THE FREAKIN' ARTICLE, not the first line before posting your rant, and especially before you speak ill of Andy and DDJ.
The article is an extremely incriminating analysis of Microsoft and alludes to some vicious monopolistic strategies by the Evil One. He NOT condoning MS or their actions as you concluded from your detailed analysis of the first paragraph.
He's pointing out some really scary, underhanded things that MS has done in the past. I would suggest that ALL Microsoft supporters read this article to really see what a monopoly can get away with.
-Fatty
Uh, no it was the sixth or seventh paragraph. It contained the spirit of the whole article and also admitted to the reader that the author is a paid defendant of Microsoft.
The article is an extremely incriminating analysis of Microsoft and alludes to some vicious monopolistic strategies by the Evil One. He NOT condoning MS or their actions ...
No it's not incriminating. Much doubt is cast on others, the harm done is downplayed and intent on Microsoft's part is dennied. His little write up stands as a wonderful example of M$ double talk. Microsoft's emails, on the other hand, were incriminating in exactly the way Andy said could not be proved. His caution, in hindsight, looks like a paid oppinion from Microsoft.
I would suggest that ALL Microsoft supporters read this article to really see what a monopoly can get away with.
Yes, people who "support" M$ should be indoctrinated this way. People who want to know what Microsoft is really thinking and planning for them should read Microsoft's email.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Everybody loved John Lennon, and yet he got killed.. But for Bill.. I guess the more you are hated the longer you live.. and richer..
The Bush Administration views antitrust laws as only applying to "clear cases of price fixing", ignoring all other anti-competitive practices.
Expect to see more cut throat business practices from Microsoft and others. Expect to see runaway monopolies, corporate mergers and takeovers on a grand scale. Expect to see the further concentration of capital in the hands of few. Expect the furthering desctruction of labor unions and the middle class.
This is the new robber baron era. Big Business has won. Corporate lobbyist and special interest groups are so far up the government's ass, they are one and the same.
Where are you Teddy Roosevelt? We need you.
"Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of today."
-- President Theodore Roosevelt 1906